#2435 - Bradley Cooper

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Bradley Cooper

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Bradley Cooper is an Academy Award-nominated actor, writer, producer, and director. His film credits include “American Sniper,” “A Star Is Born,” and “The Hangover.” His latest film, “Is This Thing On?,” which he directed and co-stars in, is now in theaters. https://www.searchlightpictures.com/is-this-thing-on

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Timestamps

0:09Long-form conversation vs. short-form social media; memory limits; and Bradley’s comedy/stand-up film authenticity
9:57Making stand-up feel authentic in a film (Will Arnett, Comedy Cellar, real audiences, and the purpose of open mics)
20:08Comedy grind and culture shift: from cutthroat ’90s sitcom chase to supportive podcast era (plus Joe’s sitcom luck story)

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Transcript

0:00

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

0:03

The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:05

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

0:09

Hey, Bradley Cooper, what's happening, baby?

0:14

You know what it's like when, like a Twilight Zone episode or something, where

0:19

like you're

0:20

watching the TV, this is an episode where like I'm watching the TV.

0:22

And then all of a sudden you're inside the show.

0:23

And all of a sudden, and you're looking at me.

0:24

Oh.

0:25

Yeah, and all of a sudden I'm inside the show.

0:27

It's crazy.

0:28

It's weird for me too.

0:30

It's weird for me that it gets weird for other people too.

0:32

Like when I see people being weird about it, I'm like, it's okay.

0:36

I feel comfortable, just so you know.

0:38

Oh, good.

0:38

You look comfortable.

0:39

No, no, no.

0:39

It's excitement.

0:40

It's weird for me.

0:41

Like I was trying to explain this to someone, they're like, do people have a

0:44

hard time being

0:45

comfortable on the show?

0:46

I go, I kind of do too.

0:47

It's fucking weird.

0:48

Yeah.

0:48

It's weird that that many people are watching.

0:50

Yes.

0:52

And then you start thinking like, oh, don't fuck it up.

0:54

Don't say that.

0:55

Right.

0:57

But if you think about it, the fact that you did this long form setup and that

1:02

we live

1:03

in a culture where people at least say that it's all about short term.

1:07

Yeah.

1:07

It goes against it.

1:09

The people are interested.

1:11

Yeah.

1:11

Well, the short term stuff does work.

1:15

You know, like short attention span stuff is very popular, even with me.

1:18

Like, but I have been resisting it more and more lately.

1:22

I'm like, like a fucking heroin addict, like slowly weaning myself off the drug.

1:27

And the more I wean myself, the better I feel like physically better.

1:32

My brain works better.

1:34

I feel more relaxed.

1:36

I don't feel like this like Sugar Sean O'Malley, the UFC fighter.

1:39

He said, even when I'm just scrolling, even if he goes, even if it's not

1:42

anything about

1:43

me, he goes, there's just like a low level anxiety that I get.

1:47

I'm like, yeah, yeah.

1:48

Because like, you know, you're wasting your time chasing a fix that you're

1:53

never going

1:53

to get.

1:54

And you're just like getting these short drips of like, oh, look at that.

1:59

Oh, look at that.

2:00

Oh, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.

2:02

But that's not what people really want.

2:04

What people really want is something engaging, something you go, wow, that's

2:08

like a great

2:09

documentary, like, which are still super popular, like a great documentary.

2:13

They're still, you know, like huge on Netflix and huge on YouTube.

2:17

So there's always.

2:18

And Oppenheimer was like three hours long.

2:19

Right.

2:20

Exactly.

2:20

And made a billion dollars.

2:21

Exactly.

2:21

So people went.

2:23

Humans didn't change.

2:24

It's just you can hijack the reward system by giving them some short attention

2:28

span nonsense.

2:29

And it just like tricks their slow drip dopamine into like continuing to watch

2:33

this stupid shit.

2:34

But that's not what they want.

2:36

No.

2:36

You know, it's not what I want.

2:38

No.

2:39

It's the difference between like, yeah, just a little drip of something that

2:42

has the illusion

2:43

that I'm getting what I want as opposed to what I actually need.

2:47

Yes.

2:47

Which is sort of a reminder that I exist.

2:50

Yes.

2:52

Yes.

2:52

And that I'm communicating with somebody and I can relate to it.

2:56

Yes.

2:56

Which is a different thing.

2:57

And I only know this because I've never been on social media.

2:59

But sometimes there was one time I got on somehow got on TikTok and it was all

3:03

police footage.

3:05

You know, like and I was just I remember laying on my couch.

3:08

Forty minutes went by and I was just doing this.

3:11

And there was like the first part of the video.

3:13

And then what happened?

3:14

And then like the second part.

3:15

Part two.

3:16

And that was the only time I experienced I thought I got to stay away from this

3:18

because

3:19

I won't leave the house.

3:20

It's bad.

3:21

It's bad for you too because it programs you to think that that is going on

3:25

everywhere in

3:26

the world.

3:26

Like if you have eight billion people that are interacting with people all over

3:32

the world

3:33

and you only take the worst examples of that and broadcast it and then it

3:37

becomes viral and

3:39

millions and millions of people think it rewires your way you think about human

3:42

beings.

3:43

But the other thing is about memory.

3:45

Someone was talking about Niagara Falls the other day and I thought I've been

3:50

there, right?

3:51

And I'm like, have I been there?

3:52

Or did I see a video?

3:55

Like or was that one of the things when I put the Oculus on?

3:59

Right, right, right.

4:00

Honestly, I can't remember, but I know what it feels like to be looking at it.

4:04

Oh, yeah.

4:05

So it's changing the way memory works.

4:10

100%.

4:11

Yeah.

4:12

I've hit a wall in my memory, like a tangible wall because, and I think it's

4:18

connected to

4:19

like Dunbar's number.

4:20

Like Dunbar's number is the amount of people that you can keep in your head

4:25

because we evolved

4:26

in these tribal scenarios.

4:28

We evolved with like 150 people.

4:30

And so the way Dunbar calculated it, there's like very close, intimate, close

4:36

circle people,

4:37

which is a small amount.

4:38

And then immediately after that, there's a slightly larger amount.

4:42

And then it gets up to, what was it like?

4:44

It gets up to like 1,000 people.

4:46

1,500.

4:46

1,500 people.

4:47

That's the most amount of people you can keep in your head.

4:49

So it's like five people that like your tightest of tight.

4:51

And then 15, like slightly outside of that.

4:54

And it gets all the way up to about 1,500 people.

4:57

I would think I'd be able to, that you could keep in your head.

5:03

Yeah.

5:03

But I'm way past 1,500 people.

5:06

So I'm fucked.

5:07

Right.

5:07

Like I am like, there's people that I know really well.

5:11

And then I see them and I'm like, I don't remember his name.

5:13

1,500 sounds weird.

5:14

And it seems bad.

5:16

Like I'm like, why can't I remember his fucking name?

5:18

I can't remember his name.

5:19

I'm horrible with names.

5:20

But it's just because my hard drive sucks.

5:23

It's like, I don't have enough room.

5:25

Right.

5:25

It's like, you know, when you, the old iPhones, it was like, you've run out of,

5:28

you know, max space.

5:29

Like, oh, geez, I got to start deleting photos and videos.

5:32

Now, do you get anxiety with that?

5:34

Or do you sort of breathe through and say, well, it's just the way it is?

5:36

I kind of just deal with it.

5:38

Yeah, me too.

5:39

It is what it is.

5:40

But my memory itself is like very good and also very bad at the same time.

5:46

Yeah, me too.

5:46

I have a serious problem remembering people's names.

5:50

Well, you think about how many people you meet.

5:51

Like, as I was saying it, I was like, and I've watched the show so many times.

5:53

I was like, Jamie.

5:53

Right, that's Jamie.

5:54

Like, as you were saying, I'm like, let me see who can I remember.

5:56

Do I remember any of the guys I just met?

5:58

I can't tell you one.

5:59

I just met them, shook their hand, looked them in their eyes.

6:00

They say their names and it just goes in and out.

6:03

Yeah.

6:03

And some people get upset.

6:04

What's my name?

6:05

I know.

6:05

I don't fucking know.

6:06

Oh, you don't remember me?

6:07

I'm like, you don't remember?

6:10

What's my name?

6:11

And you're like, oh.

6:12

Well, that's why in Hollywood, people love to say, good to see you.

6:17

Instead of nice to meet you, like, bitch, you met me two years ago.

6:20

Like, I don't remember.

6:22

Yeah.

6:23

Leonard Bernstein had a great thing that he would always do.

6:25

I loved you in the last thing you did.

6:27

That's funny.

6:29

That's funny.

6:30

Speaking of which, I watched your movie.

6:32

Is this thing on?

6:33

And it's good.

6:34

It's really good, man.

6:35

Oh, thanks, man.

6:36

It's one of the best representations of someone attempting to do stand-up.

6:40

It's a really good film.

6:42

And, you know, but it's not really just about stand-up.

6:46

It's about these people with this, it's about, they're actual human beings.

6:52

Like, these are complicated, real, like, not caricature-ish, not cartoonish

6:57

people.

6:57

Like, I get that these are real people.

7:00

Right, good.

7:00

Complicated, real people that are trying to figure out their relationships.

7:05

Good.

7:06

And in the context of this one guy, Will Arnett, is attempting to do stand-up.

7:10

Right.

7:10

So it was great.

7:12

I'm glad you say that, because, you know, I moved to New York in 97, and then

7:20

that was

7:22

my introduction to any comedy world.

7:24

Other than with my dad, I used to watch Rodney Dangerfield's, you know, New

7:28

Year's Eve special.

7:29

We used to watch it every year, you know, and it was Elaine Boosler and Sam

7:33

Kennison and

7:34

Dice and, you know.

7:35

Yeah, Elaine Boosler.

7:36

I forgot about that.

7:37

I'm pretty sure she was on there, yeah.

7:38

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

7:39

And I was obsessed with Dice when I was, like, in eighth grade.

7:42

I memorized one of his records, and I would do it in the train station with all

7:45

my friends.

7:46

Because back then, that's all you did, right?

7:48

You would memorize stuff.

7:49

Oh, yeah, me too.

7:49

Yeah, there was no video to look at.

7:51

You know, you wouldn't all sit around.

7:52

You would just memorize and then, you know, regale your friends with your

7:55

impersonation

7:56

of them.

7:56

And then, and Richard Pryor was my hero, hero growing up.

8:00

That was my idol.

8:02

So I had this thing with stand-up comedy, and then I moved to New York, and I'm

8:05

all of a

8:05

sudden immersed with these clubs, and Upright Citizens Brigade had just started,

8:09

and I did this movie, What Hot American Summer, and there was all these people.

8:12

I didn't even know about the state.

8:13

Remember that show on MTV?

8:15

There was a show.

8:15

Uh-huh.

8:15

Yeah, all this.

8:16

And so I just, you know, little by little immersed myself into that world, and

8:21

I just

8:22

became fascinated with the culture.

8:23

And then Zach Galifianakis, who I met, like, in 2001, way before Hangover, I

8:28

used to go

8:28

and watch him do stuff.

8:29

And I just love the culture.

8:32

And when Will was telling me about this, I was like, oh, let's set it in New

8:35

York, in

8:36

the cellar.

8:37

Because I just love the geography of the cellar, too, that you go in the olive

8:40

tree, and you

8:41

walk down into this place.

8:42

It's this whole other world.

8:44

And it just felt like, yeah, I really wanted, like, can we pull this off where

8:48

it's authentic,

8:49

where you were watching it at home, and you get a sense of the fact that you're

8:52

saying

8:52

that, you know, you feel like it got it, you know, within the striking distance

8:56

makes

8:56

me really happy.

8:58

Yeah, it's striking distance.

8:59

It's, like, one of the only films.

9:01

Like, Punchline was an interesting film, the Tom Hanks, Sally Fields.

9:06

Yeah, yeah, of course.

9:06

But it was bullshit.

9:07

Like, you watch it, like, what, they got lockers?

9:09

Like, what the fuck is this?

9:10

And also, the comedy wasn't good.

9:13

It wasn't real comedy.

9:15

It was, like, it felt flat and fake, and people were laughing at nothing.

9:18

The Will stuff felt real.

9:20

Yeah.

9:21

It felt real, you know?

9:22

Like, the clubs felt like a guy trying to work out what it's like to be on

9:26

stage, an open

9:27

mic.

9:28

And then the fact you got Jordan Jensen in, who I love.

9:30

Yeah, of course.

9:31

She was fucking great.

9:32

I texted her afterwards.

9:33

I'm like, you killed it.

9:33

Isn't she great in the movie?

9:35

She's great.

9:35

Yeah, she's so natural.

9:36

I mean, the minute I started shooting her, I was like, oh, wait a second.

9:38

Yeah.

9:39

Yeah.

9:40

It was like, and the first thing I had shot with her was one of her sets, and I

9:44

was just

9:45

up there with the camera, and I came around, and her profile, and actually, I

9:47

felt

9:48

like I was in the stars more, and she looked a lot like Gaga and Allie, like,

9:52

singing

9:52

Shallow.

9:52

Oh, wow.

9:53

And I had, like, this weird moment.

9:54

I was like, whoa.

9:55

And then she was just incredible.

9:57

And then as it went on, she had a larger part of the movie, and then that whole

10:01

thing

10:02

when they're talking about the small penis, and we go up to her, and just her

10:05

writing

10:05

that down, and she was just so fluid.

10:07

And I was like, oh, yeah, she's got it, man.

10:09

She's got it.

10:10

She's great.

10:11

She's really great.

10:12

She's a really unique person.

10:13

Like, a very unusual person.

10:15

Like, even just talking to her on the podcast.

10:17

Oh, yeah.

10:17

Grew up on a farm with two moms.

10:18

Yeah.

10:19

Yeah, amazing.

10:19

Yeah.

10:20

She could do anything.

10:21

I know.

10:21

And she's so fun.

10:22

She's fun on stage, too.

10:24

Like, she's great.

10:25

Like, working in the crowds.

10:26

Very smart.

10:27

Very smart.

10:27

Very smart.

10:28

But, like, her character, like, the way she interacted, I'm like, oh, that's so

10:32

realistic.

10:33

Like, we should fuck.

10:34

Like, that scene.

10:35

Yeah, exactly.

10:36

And then you go back to the, like, East Village or Chinatown apartment.

10:39

You know, they live in one tall one room.

10:40

Yeah.

10:41

I believe it.

10:42

Yeah, me too.

10:43

It was great.

10:44

It's, like, you know, you're never going to really capture stand-up in a movie

10:48

because

10:48

it's, like, to capture what it is, you would need, like, years and months.

10:53

And also, you would need a movie dedicated to it.

10:55

Exactly.

10:55

The movie's not dedicated to it.

10:56

Exactly.

10:57

Do you know what I mean?

10:57

It was just about, can I make you feel like you're there watching, that you're

11:01

with him

11:02

on stage?

11:02

Yes.

11:03

What that could be like.

11:04

Yeah.

11:05

You know, the silence.

11:06

And then the cameras, boom.

11:07

There's nowhere to go.

11:08

How did you work out the stand-up scenes?

11:12

Did you have real audiences?

11:14

It was never just real audiences because you have to hit the quota of extras

11:19

with SAG and

11:20

all that.

11:21

But we tried to do it as authentic as possible, which was everybody that works

11:25

at the cellar,

11:26

they're there in the movie.

11:28

Everybody who agreed to do it.

11:29

So all the waiters and everything, the staff, that's all people that work there.

11:34

Liz, who's the manager, who plays the manager, she's the manager of the cellar.

11:37

So all those people are real.

11:39

But then the patrons, I can't remember what the email was or what the ask was,

11:44

but people

11:45

who like to go to stand-up comedy, who go regularly.

11:49

And then once they were there, I never told them what was going to happen.

11:52

I never directed them once.

11:53

It was like, whatever they're laughing at, that's it.

11:56

And I don't do many takes.

11:57

So you're getting an authentic reaction.

12:00

Now it's hyped up because there's cameras there and it's a movie, but they're

12:03

not told what

12:04

to do.

12:04

It feels like that.

12:06

And even in the mix, we never added anything.

12:08

There was no added laugh, nothing.

12:10

Oh, that's great.

12:11

Yeah, yeah.

12:11

It's all, because I was like, it's just got to be real.

12:13

Because I wanted Will to just, you know, I just don't want him to act.

12:16

Right, right, right.

12:17

I just want him to, and that's why, you know, Shane Gillis was kind enough.

12:20

The first time he went up was here at the Mothership.

12:22

Shane gave him four minutes of his set.

12:25

And he and I, and Will and I flew to Austin and we're sitting in the green room

12:29

and Shane

12:30

was like an hour and a half late and Tony was there and he was so nice.

12:34

I'd never met Tony before.

12:35

And that's where I smelled the thing.

12:37

You know, I did this.

12:38

Oh, the smell like Austin.

12:38

Yeah, dude, fuck me.

12:40

That shit is no joke, dude.

12:42

Yeah.

12:43

And that was the first time Will ever went up.

12:47

And we were just trying some of that material and went up as Alex Novak.

12:50

Because I was like, when do you have an opportunity as an actor to actually do

12:53

the thing you're

12:54

preparing to do?

12:55

Like, you could, and like, think about how much that would cost.

12:57

Like, you go into a room where there's real people, it's all, and then every

13:01

step that

13:01

you're taking, you're in a club.

13:02

So he did that.

13:03

And then when we went back to New York, he did it like three times a week, four

13:07

or five

13:07

times a night for like six weeks.

13:09

Wow.

13:10

Just so he could understand what it's like.

13:12

And some people didn't know who he was.

13:13

You know, you get a lot of tourists come into New York City and there were

13:16

nights where

13:17

you knew that he, when he said Alex Novak, they're like, cool.

13:20

Right.

13:22

Not like you're not Alex Novak.

13:23

You know, they're like, okay, let's see what you got.

13:25

And so that was really, that was really great.

13:28

How did you, who wrote this film?

13:31

He wrote it with this guy, Mark Chappell.

13:34

It was a, it was a movie that was more about his, based on this guy, John

13:39

Bishop, who's

13:40

a real comedian, is a very successful comedian in the UK.

13:43

And, and he, Will met that guy on a barge somewhere and, and he was at talking

13:49

about his story and

13:50

he was like, yeah, I was in, I was doing something else.

13:52

My wife and I were breaking up and I walked into a bar, a pub one night.

13:55

I didn't want to pay the cover.

13:56

That really happened to this guy.

13:58

So he put his name down and then they called him and then he was like, yeah, I'm

14:01

getting

14:01

a divorce and got a couple of chuckles, but he just loved it.

14:04

Never done comedy, nothing before that.

14:06

And he kept going back and he like was obsessed by it.

14:10

And then like weeks later, his wife, a strange wife walked into a place he was

14:14

doing an open

14:15

mic at with her girlfriends and he was doing a set about their relationship.

14:18

So that actually happened.

14:20

Wow.

14:20

I know.

14:21

And then they got back together and they're still together.

14:23

And then now he like, he tours around the world.

14:25

Like he's makes a living as a comedian.

14:27

That's incredible.

14:28

Yeah.

14:28

So when he was telling me that I was doing another movie and I remember I was

14:31

like, what

14:31

are you working on?

14:32

Cause we've been friends for, for like 25 years.

14:35

And, um, and he was telling me that and I was like, I just imagine Will, cause

14:39

I know him

14:39

so well and he's so charismatic and funny and just has this presence that, that

14:44

is kind

14:44

of lacking.

14:45

I don't feel like there's like a male archetype now that fits him.

14:48

He's like, he's like Robert Mitchum.

14:49

He reminds me of like a young Robert Mitchum, Will Arnett.

14:51

And he's telling me that I'm like his voice and like that face, standup comedy,

14:55

I just

14:55

couldn't get it out of my head, Joe.

14:57

And I was like, Hey man, can I, can I read it?

14:59

Like how far along are you guys?

15:01

And I read it and I was like, I didn't quite, because like you, I had never

15:04

seen a movie

15:04

that I thought nailed it.

15:05

And I love standup comedy so much.

15:08

I was like, and I have no desire to try to redo it.

15:11

And also comedy is so massive right now.

15:13

And the specials are so great and cinematic right now that there's no reason to

15:17

try to

15:18

make a fictional movie about something that we can watch as a documentary or a

15:22

docu-series

15:23

or a show that is authentic.

15:25

I was like, so, but I still would really love to capture it cinematically.

15:29

So what if it's a foil and the movie's about the two of them?

15:33

Cause that's interesting.

15:34

Yes.

15:34

And you suck.

15:35

That was one of the great scenes where Jordan was like, you're bad.

15:40

Yeah.

15:40

She's like, you're bad.

15:41

You're really bad.

15:41

And it's much more about just what, what standup comedy, with anything.

15:47

And you talk about this on your show, doing anything that puts you out of your

15:50

comfort zone.

15:51

Yeah.

15:51

Anything that pushes you, you're going to, you're going to improve as a human

15:55

being.

15:56

That was really what that, that whole thing is about.

15:59

And I just love the culture and the world.

16:01

And I thought there's so much tangible stuff there for me to get excited about

16:04

cinematically

16:05

and story-wise.

16:06

But really it's like, it could have been anything.

16:09

Yeah.

16:09

Just something that he'd never done that had, he had put himself out there and

16:13

that in doing

16:14

it and doing it, he just sort of gets more comfortable and, you know, and then

16:17

the mic

16:17

comes off the stand and then he's leaning against the wall and by the end of it,

16:21

and then the

16:22

way it was structured, it allows him to do that vampire set at the end of the

16:27

movie where

16:28

all he's doing is exercising what he's feeling emotionally because he's

16:31

comfortable in this

16:32

setting.

16:33

Yeah.

16:33

Because the old him, when he has that fight with her in the attic, he just

16:37

would have kept

16:38

that all inside and he would have been canatonic at his kid's assembly where we

16:42

meet him in

16:43

the beginning of the movie because you just don't know what to do with all that.

16:46

But if you have an outlet, something expressive, you can, you can, you know,

16:51

exercise it in

16:52

a healthy way.

16:53

Yeah.

16:54

So that, that's, that, that's, that really was the point of that whole part of

16:58

it being

16:59

standup comedy and open mic.

17:00

What you really nailed is someone trying it for the first time.

17:04

You guys really nailed that.

17:06

You really nailed a beginner in comedy.

17:09

Like it seemed completely realistic.

17:11

Great.

17:12

Yeah.

17:12

And like, I think that's one of the reasons why Kill Tony is so popular.

17:16

Yes.

17:16

You know, cause you get to see, like you can't, that, that raw reality of

17:21

someone who has

17:22

never done standup before.

17:23

Like there was people that went up at Madison square garden in front of 16,000

17:27

people that

17:27

had never done standup before.

17:29

Dude.

17:30

No, no, no, that's just, who knows.

17:34

Don't do that.

17:35

Yeah.

17:36

You should be in a fucking smoky room.

17:38

Well, not smoky anymore, but a tiny fucking room where disinterested people,

17:42

where everyone's

17:43

bombing and you bomb to it.

17:44

It's not that big a deal.

17:45

Right.

17:46

Cause you might have some potential, but if you fucking bomb in front of 16,000

17:50

people,

17:50

the pain of that, you may never recover.

17:53

Also just think about the, like, cause you're going to hear your voice through

17:56

the, you know,

17:57

echoing.

17:58

It's, it's can't be just in it.

17:59

Like, so there, I imagine there's an echo.

18:01

So you're not only bombing, but you're hearing it reverberate.

18:05

You don't really feel the echo.

18:06

You don't hear the echo.

18:07

Cause you, you have monitors on stage.

18:09

So it's coming to you pretty flat.

18:10

Okay.

18:11

But the noise of your voice where you've never heard your voice into a

18:15

microphone before ever.

18:17

Right.

18:18

And now you're in front of 16,000 people doing it.

18:20

And then Tony's sitting there looking at you and Shane's there and I'm there.

18:24

It's like a nightmare.

18:25

It's like you're, you're walking into a nightmare.

18:27

Well, what, just doing standup in front of like a guy like Shane Gillis is

18:30

crazy.

18:30

Crazy.

18:31

He's sitting right next to you.

18:32

You've never done standup.

18:33

You're going to do standup right next to a guy who's selling out arenas.

18:36

Like that's nuts.

18:37

Yeah.

18:37

That feeling is nuts.

18:39

But it's wonderful to watch because you're watching authentic reactions

18:42

happening in real time.

18:43

Yes.

18:44

Okay.

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20:07

Yeah, it's true.

20:08

Yeah, it's just that we, I think human beings really love seeing what it's like

20:16

when someone starts out doing something.

20:18

Because a lot of people have these ideas like, "Ah, maybe I could try that," or

20:21

"Maybe I could learn how to play guitar. Maybe I could do that."

20:24

But it's just the getting going and sucking at something in the beginning is

20:28

terrifying for people.

20:29

So when they see someone just try it, I think they're like, "Oh, look at him go.

20:33

Look at him go. He's out there doing it. He's on the bike. He's moving."

20:37

You know, it's like you see actual people that are trying to do something that

20:42

they've never done before, and it's exciting.

20:44

And also, the one thing I wanted to touch on is the craft of it all, you know,

20:48

that it takes a lot of work.

20:50

I know that it's not, you know, just, you know, the writing, you know, she says

20:52

that one point, she's like, "You gotta write, you know, keep going up."

20:56

And I think most people, at least I didn't know before I started going, that

20:59

people go up three or four times a night.

21:01

Like I didn't understand. So that was something I thought it was important to

21:04

convey, just the work ethic that's needed.

21:07

Well, New York is really great for that. And it's always had a culture of that.

21:11

It's had a culture of guys hopping from club to club and doing set to set

21:15

because there's so many clubs in Manhattan.

21:19

So guys would just, you know, I think the most guy, I ever heard one guy did

21:23

eight, eight or nine sets a night.

21:25

Like, they're just like, that's how many clubs there are. So you just hop all

21:28

over the place. You start your night at like 8:00 PM.

21:30

Yeah, downtown. There's a ton downtown that you can go up to. Yeah. You can go

21:34

all over the place. It's, um, we've got a lot of that here now.

21:38

There's just so many clubs in Austin now. I mean, when we went there, what you

21:41

built is incredible.

21:42

Thank you. Culture, everything. You know, I showed the movie to a standup who

21:47

hadn't done standup in like 15 years.

21:49

And he said, "The only thing that for sure you got wrong is the culture." I was

21:52

like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "No, people aren't that nice."

21:54

And I was like, "Actually, I think you're wrong." I was like, "It's changed." I

21:58

was like, "People are supportive now."

22:00

It's in where you go. There's places where it's not very supportive.

22:04

Really? But at least like, I used to go to the cellar like in early 2000s. Didn't

22:07

feel like it does now.

22:08

Right. Well, I think Ari Shafir changed that a lot. He brought like the culture

22:13

of LA to New York where you're like more supportive of each other.

22:16

It was always like dog against dog because really the way it all started out

22:22

was in the 1990s, it was all about everyone was auditioning for a sitcom.

22:28

And if you and I were, if I showed up to audition for a sitcom, I'm like, "Oh

22:32

fuck, Bradley's here. He's going for the same part. Fuck that guy."

22:35

You know, it was like that could change your life. If you got that sitcom, now

22:40

all of a sudden you're fucking huge and I'm still like struggling to pay my

22:43

rent eating ramen and it could have been me.

22:45

Right. And so there's this like serious resentment that happens in the 1990s

22:49

because everybody, like the golden carrot at the end of the stick was The

22:54

Tonight Show.

22:54

Or, you know, hosting a late, if you could get your own late night show. Oh my

22:58

God, he made it. He's a host of The Tonight Show. That was like the thing that

23:01

only one person could get.

23:03

And then there was like the sitcom. Like if it really worked out, they'd make a

23:06

sitcom around you and you'd get a development deal. So there was, people would

23:11

psychologically backstab people.

23:13

People would talk shit to people before they went on stage. They would try to

23:16

hijack their fucking mind. Like really, it was dark.

23:20

Crazy.

23:21

And then the internet came around. And then the internet, instead of people

23:25

being your competitors, they became not just your friends and not just your

23:30

colleagues, but also an asset.

23:32

Because if you're doing a podcast and you've got your funny friends on, then

23:37

your podcast is better.

23:38

And then if you tell people about their podcast, and their podcast is better.

23:43

And then you go on their podcast and that's better. And everybody benefits from

23:46

everybody else doing well.

23:48

So it completely reversed the system. And then it became much more about being

23:53

supportive of each other. And then everybody kind of realized like, hey, it's

23:57

way more fun when we're all having fun, you know?

24:00

And since the television thing kind of died off, the sitcom thing kind of died

24:05

off with reality shows.

24:07

And then it was really just more about getting clips up on the internet and

24:12

about getting, and then there was Netflix specials. So it wasn't just everybody

24:15

trying to get an HBO special.

24:16

There was way more specials. And then you could just upload specials to YouTube

24:20

and became this way more collaborative, supportive environment.

24:23

And then Ari Shafir took that that we had kind of like established in LA and

24:28

brought that to New York. And a lot of those guys ran with it.

24:30

Yeah. I mean, that's the way to go. People always say, you know, there's a lot

24:32

of room at the top.

24:32

Yeah.

24:33

There's a lot.

24:34

There's a lot of room and stand up for sure, you know, and it's like, and

24:37

everybody has their own lane, even within this big highway and everybody wants

24:42

to be with other people who wants to be a lone wolf really for a long period.

24:46

For a long period of time.

24:47

Yeah.

24:48

There's a few. There's a few out there, but they're all psychologically

24:52

destroyed. They're just a mess.

24:53

Yeah.

24:54

Who doesn't want to have friends? It's crazy.

24:55

Yeah.

24:56

I don't get it. But, you know, it's that aspect of the culture I felt like in

25:01

the movie you guys nailed, which is a realistic aspect.

25:04

Good.

25:05

A realistic portrayal of what it's like where a bunch of people just, they were

25:09

all busting each other's balls.

25:10

Yeah. Oh yeah. Exactly. You could be supportive and still honest. That was the

25:14

thing. There's no lack of honesty or criticism. It's just, it's not done with

25:18

the hope that you, your demise, for your demise.

25:20

Yes.

25:21

That's the difference.

25:22

Yeah. I think the nineties like poisoned a lot of comedians. It poisoned them

25:27

because it gave you this idea that the whole thing was about a means to an end.

25:33

And that end was a sitcom. And everybody thought you just had to get a sitcom,

25:36

gotta get a sitcom. And that was what everybody was working towards.

25:39

There's people that were developing their entire act based around a, around a

25:44

persona that they could sell to the networks.

25:46

Were you doing standup before, uh, your sitcom?

25:49

Yes.

25:50

I see. Okay. So is that how that happened? Did someone see you and then they

25:54

were like, Oh, you gotta, you gotta try this show?

25:56

Yeah, I got, I got ridiculously lucky. Like, you know, a lot of people say, Oh,

26:01

I work really hard to get on a sitcom. Nope. No, I got lucky. I did the MTV. I

26:05

never had any aspirations to act at all.

26:08

I did MTV half hour comedy hour. I got a development deal. And all of a sudden

26:12

I'm in living in LA and I'm on a sitcom and it happened in a couple of months.

26:15

It's been a great sitcom.

26:16

I was on a bad one first. I was on a bad one called Hardball. It was a sitcom

26:21

on Fox where I played a baseball player. That show got canceled. And

26:25

unfortunately I thought it was going to go because I was retarded. I was, you

26:29

know, 25 years old, 26 years old. And I was like, Oh, this is going to take off.

26:34

I should get an apartment. So I had a lease on an apartment and I wanted to

26:37

move.

26:37

By the way, everybody, I'm sure people were telling you that it was going to

26:40

take off too.

26:40

Oh yeah. Everybody believed it. Yeah. You're going to win an Emmy. Well, the

26:44

guys who made it, uh, Jeff Martin and Kevin Curran, they worked on the Simpsons.

26:46

They worked on married with children. They were really good.

26:48

Oh wow. But then the Fox people came in and just ruined it. Like the executives

26:52

came in and they brought in a bunch of hacks and just ruined the show.

26:55

Did you have fun doing it?

26:56

Oh yeah. I had a, I had a kind of good time, but I also missed comedy and I

27:00

missed New York people and I wanted to get out of there. I was like, I got to

27:04

get back to New York. Fuck this place.

27:06

As soon as it was over, but I was like, fuck, I got this lease. So I had a

27:10

lease for a year and then I got a development deal.

27:12

So how long were you in LA at that time?

27:13

Oh, I was only in LA for a few months.

27:16

Wow.

27:17

Yeah. So I moved out there to do the show.

27:19

Right.

27:20

I got a lease like almost immediately. And then I was out there for a few

27:24

months, show get canceled. And then, um, I got a development deal to do

27:30

something for NBC and they were going to do my own sitcom.

27:33

And, but as we were developing it, they said, Hey, there's a show that we're

27:38

doing. It's called news radio. It's already been picked up.

27:40

We already did the pilot, uh, but we fired one P one person from the pilot and

27:44

we want you to read for this. And that's how I got on news radio. That's how it

27:49

happened.

27:49

Like that was the only second show I ever auditioned for ever.

27:52

Wow.

27:53

So I had one show, one on air and got canceled.

27:55

You had a very unique track.

27:56

Dumb luck.

27:57

That's nuts.

27:58

Stumbled into it a hundred percent. I can't take any credit for it. Dumb luck.

28:02

That's amazing.

28:03

Just my ability to keep it together in auditions and not crack with no acting

28:07

experience at all.

28:08

But it was just not, it wasn't something that I aspired to. So it didn't have

28:12

the kind of pressure that it probably had for a lot of people.

28:15

And it probably didn't have the same kind of elation too.

28:18

Like you put, I assume if it's not something you really wanted, it was like, it

28:21

was fun, but you weren't like, this is, uh, this is like, this feels right.

28:24

No, what it felt like is, Ooh, I'm going to get money.

28:26

Yeah.

28:27

Get some money.

28:28

Yeah.

28:29

Then something's wrong.

28:30

Something's wrong.

28:31

I was like, this is good.

28:32

I'm going to get money and I don't have to worry about money.

28:34

That's how I thought about it.

28:35

Right.

28:36

And then when I was doing it, I was like, wow, I'm so lucky. Like, how did I

28:39

stumble on, I'm here with Phil Hartman. This is crazy.

28:41

Yeah, it's crazy, dude.

28:41

Dave Foley and Steven Root.

28:43

It's crazy.

28:44

Mora Tierney, like this is nuts.

28:45

Yeah.

28:46

It was a crazy cast.

28:47

And Sorkin wrote it, right?

28:48

It was Paul Sims.

28:49

Paul Sims.

28:50

Right.

28:51

Yeah.

28:52

Who had just left Larry Sanders show.

28:53

Right.

28:54

Oh my gosh.

28:55

Yeah.

28:56

It was crazy luck.

28:57

Just stupid, dumb luck.

28:58

That's right.

28:59

Sorkin did that other show with Jeff Daniels.

29:00

Right.

29:01

Yeah.

29:02

It was, it was a lot of fun.

29:03

Um, so, but, but back in those days, like everybody was working towards that.

29:09

And fortunately I already had that.

29:11

So my thing was just like, continue to work on standup and just work on my

29:15

standup.

29:16

If this all goes away, I'll just go back to being a comic.

29:19

And doing standup in LA.

29:20

Yes.

29:21

Right.

29:22

So, and so that was new.

29:23

That's.

29:24

Yeah.

29:25

And that's where I encountered like the worst backstabbing I've ever seen in my

29:28

life.

29:28

So you're coming from New York where you didn't feel that.

29:30

You didn't feel it as much.

29:31

Right.

29:32

You know, you felt like a lot of shit talking, but that was fun.

29:34

You know, the guys would make fun if you bombed.

29:36

Right.

29:37

They were doing it to your face.

29:38

Yeah.

29:39

They were doing it to your face.

29:40

And it was a more like, it was just a more ball busting, like silly environment.

29:45

Right.

29:46

In New York.

29:47

It wasn't.

29:48

No one thought they were going to get famous in New York.

29:50

You know, they were all just.

29:51

Right.

29:52

Just doing sets.

29:53

Yeah.

29:54

Yeah.

29:54

But in LA, everybody had this idea to get a sitcom.

29:57

And then in the 1990s, they started giving out development deals.

30:00

That was the big thing.

30:01

You get like a 200,000, half a million dollar development deal.

30:05

And then all of a sudden you have all this money and you're living it.

30:08

And so everybody was working towards that.

30:10

So it became, instead of like people working towards just being a standup, it

30:14

became standup

30:15

was a means to an end.

30:17

And then all these other people, they were in your way to get that goal.

30:21

Jesus.

30:22

And then your agent was telling you that's what you had to do.

30:24

Right.

30:25

Because they wanted that money too.

30:26

Right.

30:27

So it was all like programming people to go after the sitcom.

30:29

So completely different culture in the standup community there.

30:32

Exactly.

30:33

But then that all went away.

30:34

It all went away.

30:35

Like this, the idea of working towards a sitcom is not, it's like working

30:40

towards a career

30:40

in ham radio.

30:41

Right.

30:42

Like it's fucking went away.

30:43

Well, you say that Ari changed it.

30:45

How did he do it?

30:46

Because he brought the LA culture to New York.

30:49

Ari moved from LA back to New York.

30:52

And he, I mean, everybody that I talked to in New York is always like, you guys

30:56

are doing

30:56

it wrong.

30:57

And people listened to him.

30:58

Yeah.

30:59

Well, because he was established and he was a really good comic.

31:00

And they were like, okay, I think he's right.

31:02

Wow.

31:03

And they would come to, they would come to LA.

31:05

Like a lot of guys like Andrew Schultz and a lot of these other guys, they

31:08

would come

31:08

to LA and they're like, bro, everybody's so fucking nice here.

31:10

And they're all just having a great time.

31:12

Like, why aren't we doing that?

31:13

Why aren't we just having a great time?

31:15

And so it shifted.

31:17

It's just, it was the culture of the internet.

31:20

The internet changed everything because there was no longer this one thing that

31:25

a hundred guys

31:25

were trying to audition for.

31:27

Now it was anybody could just put up something online and then all your friends

31:33

became assets.

31:34

They all became like valuable to you instead of competitors.

31:37

That's cool.

31:38

Yeah.

31:39

Do you go up in these cities ever now?

31:42

I do.

31:43

If I'm in LA, I'll still do sets in LA.

31:45

I haven't been in a while, but you know, most of the time I'm at my own club.

31:49

Right.

31:50

So I have teenage kids and they're, I want to be home.

31:54

Did you do the cellar?

31:55

Yeah, I did the cellar back in the day.

31:57

But more I did, I did the stand.

31:59

I did, um, catch when it was there.

32:02

Right.

32:03

I did, um, uh, I always did danger fields.

32:07

Danger fields was great because it was like a hole in the wall.

32:11

There was hardly anybody there.

32:13

Is that where he shot his special?

32:14

Yes.

32:15

Wow.

32:16

Yeah.

32:17

It was big in the eighties and then something happened.

32:19

And by the time I got there in the nineties, it was like fucking dead.

32:22

One time I went there and I had a spot at like, um, 8:30.

32:27

And I don't remember what time the show started, but there was a few people on

32:30

before me.

32:30

And I got there and the people that were on before me were sitting at the bar.

32:33

I go, what's going on?

32:34

There's no crowd.

32:35

Like, there's no crowd.

32:36

There's nobody.

32:37

And so then this couple walked up and, uh, they bought tickets for the comedy

32:41

show.

32:41

And this guy, Bobby, who was the doorman, like step right up.

32:44

It was a Scottish guy.

32:45

Come on in.

32:46

I have you seated.

32:47

He seats them down.

32:48

There's no one there.

32:49

Just them.

32:50

They sit down.

32:51

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to danger fields.

32:53

Your first act.

32:54

And we all did stand up for two fucking people.

32:57

Wow.

32:58

Yeah.

32:59

The whole night was two people.

33:01

And they had a great time.

33:02

I'm sure.

33:03

But it was weird.

33:04

It's like when you're doing stand up for just two people.

33:07

You're only looking at two people.

33:08

But you also realize how much of your act is bullshit.

33:12

How much of your act is like fucking dance moves.

33:15

It's just nonsense.

33:16

Like English on the cue ball.

33:18

It's like you're doing a lot of silly things that like don't even.

33:22

And you're not connecting with real humans.

33:24

Right.

33:25

And when there's two people there, it like cuts the fat out of all of your shit.

33:29

And you recognize where the flaws in your writing are and the flaws in your

33:33

delivery.

33:34

But danger fields was, it was a wild little place.

33:38

It was, it was like a classic comedy club that didn't have any, no industry

33:46

went there.

33:46

No agents, no managers went there.

33:48

Wow.

33:49

Always.

33:50

Yeah.

33:51

It was just like a bunch of weird degenerates and it was fun.

33:54

Wow.

33:55

That was a fun place.

33:56

So I did that club a lot.

33:57

But a lot of, I did the road a lot.

33:59

Yeah.

34:00

Because that was how I could make money.

34:02

And I could headline.

34:03

I could do an hour.

34:04

Because if you're in the city, you're doing 15 minute sets or 10 minute sets.

34:07

And that's great.

34:08

But it's hard to piece together an hour at a 10 minute sets.

34:11

Because you kind of want to let the material breathe and put it all together.

34:15

Yeah, of course.

34:16

And compose it into one big thing.

34:18

And you really can work on that a lot more if you're actually headlining.

34:22

Do you watch a lot of specials, comedy specials nowadays?

34:24

I don't.

34:25

I watch a lot of comics, like when I see them at the club.

34:27

Live.

34:28

Right.

34:29

But not like...

34:30

No, I probably should.

34:31

I probably should watch more of them.

34:33

But really comedy is, it's like an artistic form of hypnosis.

34:39

And the real way to see comedy is to be there live.

34:42

Right.

34:43

Because you're like...

34:44

And you know when the person's locked in and you know when they're not.

34:46

You feel it.

34:47

They got you.

34:48

Like they're thinking for you.

34:49

Yeah.

34:50

Like if I'm watching a tell and he's at like the mothership and he's killing.

34:54

Like we're all like this.

34:55

We're like locked into his brain.

34:57

And we're letting him like take us on a ride.

34:59

Yeah, of course.

35:00

It's like a kind of a form of hypnosis.

35:02

Yes.

35:03

And I really think that a stand-up special, as good as they are, you're maybe

35:08

getting 60

35:08

to 70 percent of the experience of actually being there.

35:11

That's why I enjoy watching to see how different people make them.

35:14

Mm.

35:15

Because there's all different types.

35:16

Yeah.

35:17

You know, some are heavily edited, which always brings me out if there's a way

35:20

to keep it

35:20

so you feel like you're in the room.

35:21

Right.

35:22

You know, I remember it was a Mr. Tambourine Man or the Chris Rock special

35:26

where when he

35:27

changed the tone of it and he started talking about jerking off to porn and how

35:30

he became addicted

35:31

to porn.

35:32

And it was that great filmmaker who's a comedian who does music.

35:37

He did that thing during COVID when he was in his house.

35:41

Bo Burnham.

35:42

Bo Burnham.

35:43

Bo Burnham.

35:44

I think he directed it.

35:45

Oh, really?

35:46

And the camera just keeps going on, keeps going on.

35:47

By the time you don't even realize it because you're hypnotized, you're right

35:51

here on Chris

35:51

Rock.

35:52

And I think probably subconsciously just thinking about it now, that's probably

35:54

one of the things,

35:55

because that's kind of the frame I used the whole time on Alex on Will.

35:58

Yeah.

35:59

But I remember watching it going like, when the fuck did this become a close up?

36:02

You know?

36:04

But that's what it was happening.

36:05

Right.

36:06

So there was a synergy between the camera and what he was doing in the place.

36:10

Right.

36:11

And I didn't feel like, cinematically, I was there and this is what he was

36:14

doing, hypnotizing

36:15

me.

36:16

Right.

36:17

And then the opposite of that was the special that Chris Rock did where he

36:20

changed clothes.

36:21

Mmm.

36:22

So he was doing a special where he filmed part of it in one place and another

36:27

part of it

36:27

in another place.

36:28

And he spliced the two of them together with different outfits.

36:31

Mmm.

36:32

So you would have him begin a bit with one outfit on and then end a bit with a

36:36

different outfit

36:36

on.

36:37

And you're like, whose idea was this?

36:39

Yeah.

36:40

Because the minute you cut and edit in any way, you know, even podcasts audio

36:44

wise, that's

36:44

the thing I've learned.

36:45

You know, some people, you know, they edit the audio of a podcast and you're

36:49

like, that's

36:49

not, someone didn't take a breath before they answered.

36:51

Oh, like cutting out in between.

36:53

Yeah.

36:54

It's a whole other rhythm.

36:55

Right.

36:56

Well, that's the YouTube thing, right?

36:57

The YouTube for a long time was doing these things where they would cut out all

37:02

the pauses

37:03

in between people talking things and it became like a style of editing.

37:06

Right.

37:07

Where it's like shocking.

37:08

But the idea is-

37:09

For my ears, like, it's impossible for me to get in.

37:12

Right.

37:13

It's just impossible.

37:14

Well, it's the short attention span concept.

37:16

Right.

37:17

You're just saying people are so fucking stupid, you can't give them any breaks.

37:19

You can't give them any breath.

37:20

You got to keep talking, keep talking, keep talking.

37:22

And then, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

37:24

And it's like, it's exhausting.

37:25

After a while, it's just like this wash and yeah.

37:26

Yeah.

37:27

They're just trying to keep you engaged as much as possible by editing instead

37:32

of by having actually

37:33

interesting content.

37:34

Compelling content.

37:35

Yeah.

37:36

Yeah.

37:37

It's an interesting exercise.

37:38

Yeah.

37:39

I enjoy watching, like I think Josh Safdie did Sandler's one and he did all

37:43

this backstage

37:44

and he walked up and then he was in many locations, but he was playing music a

37:49

lot.

37:49

Yeah.

37:50

I just like watching everybody's different, you know, sort of exploration of

37:53

different stand-up

37:53

shows.

37:54

Cause it's such a huge viable market.

37:56

So people, you know, it's, it's fun to watch how they do it.

37:59

I think that's probably why, cause I watched so many of them.

38:01

I wanted to do it in a way in a movie.

38:03

Have you done stand-up at all?

38:04

Never, never, never.

38:05

Never?

38:06

No.

38:07

Have you thought about it?

38:08

No.

38:09

When you were doing the film, did you think about doing it?

38:10

No, no.

38:11

No?

38:12

Yeah.

38:13

And I don't know why, Joe.

38:14

Yeah.

38:15

But no, I just, it's not like one of those things that I feel, um, compelled to

38:21

do.

38:21

But would it, would it be fun?

38:22

Would I be scared?

38:23

All those things.

38:24

Um, will I try and open mic one night?

38:26

Yeah, I probably should.

38:27

Um, but it's not, I didn't feel compelled to do it.

38:30

No.

38:31

The problem would be if you did it and it went okay, but you're like, I think I

38:36

could

38:36

do better.

38:37

And then I'm-

38:38

And then you're gone.

38:39

You know me?

38:41

I know everybody.

38:42

It's kind of the same thing with all of us.

38:44

Yeah, of course, dude.

38:45

There's always a part of you like, I think I can do better.

38:47

Yeah.

38:48

And then next thing you know, like, I gotta leave.

38:49

I gotta go do a set.

38:50

Right.

38:51

What the fuck are you doing?

38:52

Dad, I haven't eaten dinner.

38:53

No, no, no, no, no.

38:56

It's like all artistic pursuits, they can become an obsession and they become

39:01

an addiction

39:01

and they become a part of you.

39:02

And then it's like your brain naturally goes towards that pathway of thinking

39:08

about that thing

39:08

all day.

39:09

Yeah, which I love.

39:11

Oh, it's great if it's a fun thing.

39:13

I remember being 11 and watching The Elephant Man and knowing at that moment,

39:17

you okay?

39:18

Yeah, I'm sweating.

39:19

Yeah.

39:20

Knowing at that moment that like, oh, this is what I want to do for the rest of

39:23

my life.

39:23

When you saw The Elephant Man?

39:24

Yeah.

39:24

Really?

39:25

Yeah, I remember.

39:26

Why was it that movie?

39:27

I mean, I don't know.

39:28

I mean, I've thought about it a lot, obviously.

39:33

David Lynch directed it.

39:34

I remember the scene, Anthony Hopkins.

39:36

I loved film.

39:37

So I always loved film.

39:38

My dad loved film.

39:40

But it wasn't like a conscious thing where I was like, this is it.

39:43

And I remember, you know, in my living room, it's on the TV.

39:47

I saw all the movies on the TV.

39:48

You know, I never saw Apocalypse Now in a movie theater or Godfather or

39:51

anything.

39:51

Right.

39:52

The Loneliness is the Longest Runner or, you know, none of it.

39:55

It was all on the television.

39:57

But I was watching The Elephant Man.

39:59

It was on HBO.

40:00

It came through Philadelphia where I live, Comcast.

40:02

And they would show, like, it all the time.

40:04

And it was Anthony Hopkins coming in.

40:06

And he's seeing Joseph Merrick, The Elephant Man, for the first time.

40:09

And the way David Lynch shot it, you only see his shadow.

40:12

And then Hopkins starts crying.

40:14

And I don't know.

40:15

I was just like, I was there in that cellar with him.

40:19

And I was like, I forgot I was in the living room.

40:21

And then the whole movie was like that.

40:23

And it came out.

40:24

I was like, I just want that.

40:26

So was that, like, the first seed that was planted?

40:29

Yeah, that was it.

40:30

How old were you?

40:31

Only.

40:32

I was 11.

40:33

Wow.

40:34

It was like, bam.

40:35

It was like a shot.

40:36

There's a scene right here.

40:38

Yeah, it's right.

40:39

It's this.

40:40

This is it.

40:41

Oh, look how young Anthony Hopkins looks.

40:44

Yeah, he was incredible.

40:49

Stand up.

40:50

Stand up!

40:51

Turn around.

40:59

Turn around!

41:00

Turn around.

41:01

Turn around!

41:01

Turn around!

41:28

wow wow that was it yeah wow what is it like watching that now like yeah

41:41

thinking that that

41:42

planted a seed that changed your whole life i'm like well first i thought wasn't

41:46

it a shadow but

41:47

that was before and then i'm like oh yeah and then yeah then i was just in it

41:50

then all of a sudden i

41:50

was there then i was like is joe in it does he know what i'm talking about and

41:53

then i was and

41:54

then as my brain started going the movie kept bringing me in it yeah and then

41:58

by the end by

41:59

that push-in i was like i'm just watching this guy look at this thing for the

42:01

first time and then

42:02

fuck look at this beast anthony hopkins i wonder what he was looking at when he

42:05

was crying i know

42:06

you know because you know pull that out of your eyeballs oh dude and i wrote so

42:10

i went to grad

42:11

school moved to new york wrote him a letter because our dean said somehow he

42:15

knew him or he had i the

42:17

the school i went to that i only got into because they let anybody in

42:20

um they did that show inside the actor's studio do you remember that on tv on

42:27

bravo do you remember

42:28

that yeah and so our thesis was the show there was like our art not like our

42:33

there was a class that

42:34

but it was a class like technically a class and so all these incredible people

42:39

would come on and

42:40

anthony hopkins was there and and i was there for that and then i wrote him a

42:44

letter just telling him

42:45

and i asked uh james lipton that was his name the dean yeah and uh and then you

42:49

know and then never you

42:51

know i never heard from him ever and then um you know and now i know him dude

42:56

do you know how weird

42:58

it's crazy it's so weird right i never get over that me neither meeting ever

43:05

ever and there's some

43:07

guys i don't know if you feel this way too but like there's some guys like then

43:10

they become your

43:11

friends but still i still feel a little bit of like extra energy when i'm

43:16

around them like it'll

43:17

never go away right yeah for sure it's crazy for me one of the big ones was tarantino

43:23

like oh

43:23

hanging out with tarantino yeah that would be nuts it's so odd going to dinner

43:26

with him yeah it's

43:27

crazy hanging out with him here him coming to the club he come hang out hang

43:30

out in the green room

43:32

it's nuts it's just weird it's like that's quentin tarantino yeah that's great

43:36

yeah and it never

43:37

goes away as close as you get and even when your brain's off right because that's

43:40

always the litmus

43:41

is my brain off when i'm with the person right that's like when like okay right

43:45

and even like

43:46

clint eastwood who i did american sniper with i mean it was always clint eastwood

43:51

and i got to a point

43:52

where my brain was off you know but still i'm just like what if my dad was

43:57

alive if my dad was

43:58

he would flip the fuck out what was it like doing that scene with the fake baby

44:03

was that weird it's

44:04

so funny i was just talking about that two days ago dude and you know i've come

44:08

full circle i actually

44:10

think it's dope really i think it's fucking why because it's so just like wow

44:16

look at these people

44:17

fully invested and it's a doll

44:21

it's like a scene where you're like kind of like moving the hand a little bit

44:25

with your finger i could

44:26

tell you the whole thing dude so we had three sets of uh twins and uh clint

44:32

likes to shoot fast which i

44:34

loved and love and they were crying and they weren't ready and he was like you

44:38

know what let's just uh

44:39

let's put let's put the doll in and i was like okay i was like all right and

44:44

and and i had the doll and

44:45

i remember and i made a joke on set and i was like i was like uh i'll just save

44:49

you 35 grand because i

44:50

moved his his uh his hand with my thumb yeah you know like i saved visual

44:55

effects like 50 grand

44:56

like made a joke about it and then we got to post and we were in vancouver uh

45:01

at the doing the

45:02

meeting but you know everybody defers to the boss i still remember being in a

45:07

room and i'm like a

45:08

theater we're watching and they're like okay clint so we did this and uh you

45:11

know the tank has dirt on

45:13

it and you know whatever visual effects they had done we get to the baby i'm

45:18

like okay clint this is

45:19

uh this scene and it ends and i'm literally behind clint i just see the back of

45:23

his head and i'm waiting

45:24

for everybody to raise their hand like we got to spend more money and make the

45:30

kid real and uh i think

45:32

the kid had like two fingers too like they weren't even it was like an a yeah

45:35

that's it yeah that's it

45:36

but dude it's kind of dope i love it now i've come full circle so so and i

45:47

raised my hand

45:48

and i was like clint i just think that it's clear you know that that's not a

45:53

baby and what would do we

45:55

can we at least just find out what the cost would be and no one and no one said

45:59

anything and then i

46:00

remember he was like i think i think we move on wow and that was it dude and

46:06

that was it and i was

46:07

like okay okay and i remember talking to the other producer i was like this is

46:11

gonna come back

46:12

i was like bro this is gonna come back to haunt us and i remember he said no bradley

46:16

you're too

46:17

close to the movie i was like i don't think so dude no everybody's like he's

46:20

moving his thumb

46:22

this is crazy that's a rubber baby crazy dude there's another one too and like

46:27

yeah yeah yeah

46:28

it's crazy what is it like doing a film like that where you're playing an

46:32

actual human being

46:33

is that is that different than a like a written character that has no physical

46:39

body that you you

46:40

you can kind of become who you think the words represent yeah but when you're

46:45

playing a guy like

46:46

chris kyle you're you're playing a human yeah and you're trying to figure out a

46:51

way to make it as

46:53

realistic as possible but you're acting like what is that like i mean the thing

46:58

that just popped my

46:59

head is the pressure is is it's like night and day because there are people

47:06

that you have to um

47:08

serve you know especially with chris kyle we started making that movie he was

47:14

alive he got killed while

47:18

we were he was still negotiating with warner brother i know i think he we just

47:21

closed his deal

47:22

and then he was murdered on february 2nd i believe and uh and it was just like

47:29

whoa and um and then but

47:31

in fact we were like now we really got to make this movie and um and then clint

47:36

and i flew to

47:37

midlothian texas and met with his family and his widow and his parents and then

47:41

the kids and

47:42

i had played i did the elephant man i did it as a play in my thesis in grad

47:46

school and then i did it

47:48

at williamstown and i actually did it in new york and london so and that and

47:51

even though it's a long

47:52

time ago that was the first time i felt that responsibility because i actually

47:55

loved that guy

47:56

joseph merrick and i did and i felt that responsibility to him so i had done

48:00

something like

48:01

that before but this was the first this was the next time it was massive joe

48:07

but i think that that

48:08

it's like you're always looking for what's the fuel that's gonna allow me to

48:12

work as hard as i can

48:13

and the fuel when you're playing a real person is like there's like four extra

48:17

canisters or like

48:19

vats of firepower for you to work hard because you just you know you're looking

48:24

across the eyes of

48:26

somebody say i'm gonna serve your son or your husband or your father it's a

48:31

major responsibility

48:32

maybe even more major because he's now he's deceased yeah it is it was it was

48:37

mind-blowing

48:38

um but and it terrified me and also like i'm 185 pounds at that point from

48:44

northeast philadelphia

48:46

this guy's from midlothian texas seal team three you know it's like how and and

48:51

the way clint works

48:53

the way we did work you know uh kevin lace who was a seal team three with chris

48:57

was in the movie

48:57

played dauber jacob schick it was one tribe which is what i'm wearing he was a

49:01

marine that did you

49:02

ever see american sniper yes yeah there's that scene where he goes to the

49:05

hospital there's all the guys

49:06

have been wounded jacob schick is one of them you know so there's real guys it's

49:11

all real so i step in

49:13

you know i've got to i i'm gonna die unless i believe i'm chris right like so i

49:20

have to do

49:20

whatever i can so that i believe i'm chris if i believe i'm chris then i have a

49:26

shot at everybody

49:28

else potentially going along with this illusion i just have to i have to be

49:32

absolutely fearless when

49:34

i walked on set so i just it just made me work so hard that i'd never worked

49:39

hard that if it's a

49:40

created character you know it's it's different but it comes with a different

49:44

set of challenges

49:46

you know it depends it just depends on what it is but i do know and then with

49:48

leonard bernstein he

49:49

did the same thing huge responsibility like massive that i felt right to his

49:54

kids right right to people

49:56

that loved him um but but mainly his kids all three his son has passed away

50:00

since it but his three kids

50:01

are like okay you know they're like handing you you know it's like if someone

50:05

went to your daughter

50:06

in 12 years and said here's this movie about your father do you know what i

50:11

mean yeah you know yeah

50:12

and and this guy's sitting across and be like okay i'm gonna play your father

50:16

that's just a whole other

50:18

thing because the truth is like if it's good it's gonna last a long time and it's

50:24

gonna be a thing

50:25

that marks their journey so i'm a part of whatever little part of chris's

50:29

journey so you give somebody

50:31

you the faith that whoever has the power to give to that artist is just you

50:36

know so it just made me

50:38

work you know like you just you just don't stop working till you get to the

50:41

point where you believe

50:43

you're him or you believe that he's a part of you something's working did you

50:47

meet chris kyle never

50:48

just talked to him on the phone once oh wow yeah so what did you like what did

50:53

you train

50:54

oh yeah what did you do to try to like yeah well here's it's interesting right

50:58

it's like well i

50:59

couldn't do anything that would ever achieve what he achieved but it's like

51:02

what can i do

51:03

to look like a master right so there's three weapons the 338 lapua the 50 cal

51:09

the uh the uh rifle

51:12

it's like what can i do how much time do i have i think i had like six months

51:16

also luckily we're the same shoe size same age he has a hole in his ear i do

51:21

you find things that

51:22

like you know uh same height i was like oh this is great uh and then i just

51:27

like but he's 238

51:29

pounds so the first thing was 6 000 calories a day found a trainer and just

51:33

thousand yeah six thousand

51:35

calories first i did it with real food and that was a big mistake because i

51:40

couldn't get up i

51:42

remember the first week i did it had an incredible chef and and and then i

51:45

would i couldn't get up

51:47

like i couldn't move like i couldn't move my stomach so then we i think we

51:51

split like half of it into

51:52

protein shakes but it was still 6 000 when you say you couldn't get up like

51:56

what do you mean my stomach

51:57

wasn't able to process that much food yeah whatever whatever happened i could

52:02

just getting blocked

52:03

getting blocked like major pain like i was giving birth or something what i

52:06

would imagine

52:07

so then we change it and it would be like huge meal shake huge meal shake

52:12

worked out twice a day

52:14

five i had three rest days no cardio it was all about strength training like

52:19

and then and it was

52:20

all focused around dead lifting oh okay and uh it was guy jason walsh who i

52:24

worked with and um and i did

52:27

that yes it would be like monday to monday 5 30 a.m and then a 4 30 p.m or like

52:32

3 30 monday tuesday

52:34

rest wednesday thursday friday rest saturday sunday and did that and i got up

52:38

to 238 pounds and a lot

52:40

of it was like because i was thinking about him his neck and he might so i came

52:43

like i would do all these

52:44

all the neck stuff and it was his shoulders like i just wanted so you could

52:48

shoot over and it's like

52:49

you know which we did all the time in the movie where the guy's just you know

52:53

chris yeah nfl playoffs

52:55

let's go draft king sportsbook an official sports betting partner of the nfl

52:59

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gaming resources cdkng.co slash audio limited time offer um how much weight did

54:21

you gain i went from

54:22

185 to 238 whoa yeah and all naturally because i have cancers in my family i've

54:27

had skin cancer and

54:28

like i'm terrified of anything so i was like not going to do that um so you

54:33

know you did creatine or

54:35

anything to creatine yeah which by the way i just started again like three

54:39

months ago oh it's amazing

54:40

dude i'm on this push-up thread with a bunch of dads at my school and we do 100

54:46

push-ups a day

54:47

and if we don't you have to pay 10 into a pool and then when we get to 800 we

54:50

go to chinatown and i'll

54:51

have a meal with the money and then i started taking creatine like two and a

54:55

half months ago and uh we

54:57

just upped it to 150 i was like this is because i could only do and we'd like

54:59

youtube the perfect

55:00

push-up which i didn't know which is like a whole other world uh and then now

55:05

it's it's i mean

55:06

creatine is incredible it's incredible for your brain i know i've i've heard

55:10

you say that like i can't

55:11

tell that because i also take zins all the time so it's like i don't know what's

55:14

doing it

55:15

yeah me too i do the same thing um but but um yeah where was i on the chris

55:22

thing you're talking

55:23

about gaining weight oh yeah oh yeah so then i worked with this and i worked

55:26

with the guy who so i was

55:27

doing that in conjunction with um learning about sniping and uh working with kevin

55:33

lace this guy

55:33

dauber we would go up to the disney ranch and work with like 600 yard head

55:37

targets prone that i would

55:38

just do all the time and then we then once we cast the rest of the team we did

55:42

all this stuff but really

55:43

kevin lace this guy dauber was the guy because he was there and he was there

55:47

through the whole shooting

55:49

just so everything would be real and we just drilled it we became a group like

55:52

you know we did the work

55:53

but it wasn't so much about like i was like i have this amount of time doing

55:56

like seal boot camp will

55:58

do nothing for me like like that that'll just give me the brain like how hard

56:02

this is and will i be

56:03

broken i've done this not that i couldn't have not maybe i would have been

56:06

broken but i felt like i do

56:08

understand that like i've been through certain things where like i understand

56:12

what it's like to push

56:13

myself to be on my breaking point and what that looks like and feels like what

56:18

i don't know

56:18

is when i'm looking at a target and i have to factor in that you know the curve

56:23

of the earth

56:24

you know like that's the stuff i want to learn yeah um so that's where i focus

56:29

was those three

56:30

weapons you know live rounds gaining the weight so i felt like i was here we go

56:35

we're back um

56:37

that's like all of a sudden you're like oh you didn't take the drug

56:40

um like no i'm not on it um and then and then so it was those two things in

56:51

conjunction the curve

56:53

of the earth is nuts yeah i think about that it's crazy long distance and then

56:56

the fact that these

56:57

guys stayed up 24 hours would pee in there you know never get up to pee just

57:00

pee right there

57:01

right in the room you know i mean i said no and then by the way it's a human

57:04

being i mean it's just

57:06

yeah forget it um and then just working with this guy tim monica on like his

57:11

voice to me it's all

57:12

the voice is everything it's all about the voice and like where he's from and

57:15

chris was interesting

57:16

because his accent started to change you know because he once he got out and

57:20

then he did that um

57:21

he did a couple of shows you know he wrote that book which is how i came across

57:25

and then gave it to

57:26

glint um so he had an interesting accent that kind of changed a little bit um

57:31

but yeah just the

57:32

voice just hitting the voice i would work this guy five days a week you know

57:36

you know and i had tons

57:38

of stuff i had so much information that teya kyle had been so generous to give

57:44

me so many home videos

57:45

you know correspondence you know i i used to work out to his which i just did

57:50

the other day hadn't it's

57:52

so funny we're talking about this i literally just did it two days ago um

57:54

worked out to his playlist

57:56

i had both of his uh workout playlists oh wow and i and i and i blew up two

58:01

huge posters and one was

58:02

him just like this and one with his gun and i would do that and look at him

58:06

every morning it was just

58:07

like this beautiful ritual that i felt like i was with him every day how long

58:10

did you take to prepare

58:12

i i'd have to look back i think i i did it fast but i think we had about six

58:16

months or five months

58:17

but like you know full-on that's it nothing else i didn't have a kid back then

58:20

it was like that was it

58:21

yeah yeah that's there's there's something very unique about someone doing a

58:27

film about an actual

58:28

person yeah like a great actor doing like de niro when he played uh jake lamotta

58:33

yeah raging bull of

58:34

course like that that was one of the first i mean he became a different person

58:40

yeah yeah you have to

58:41

yeah you have to if there's like a merging of you and that whatever that idea

58:45

or the soul whatever of

58:46

the person it sounds so hokey you know i get it but if you ask me what my

58:51

memory is of of making a

58:53

sniper like memory like on in scenes it's not that like uh i was acting it's

59:00

just that's not my memory

59:03

what is the memory of like okay now we're gonna do this and it's like me as him

59:07

doing it wow you know

59:09

that's that was that a mind when you stop when like the movie well the good

59:14

thing is you do a

59:15

clint who takes the piss out of everything oh does he so yeah so we would go to

59:19

dinner at night

59:20

and uh and i learned from christian bale in american hustle like he just stayed

59:25

in because i didn't

59:25

understand this stay in the character all the time you know you hear these

59:28

stories but you don't know

59:29

what the real is like how does that work you see a cell phone do you like lose

59:31

your mind like how do you

59:33

what is it how do you do it and it's like oh i overthought it bale would just

59:37

stay he was played this

59:38

character that's from new york in in american hustle and i'd go in there the

59:42

first day i met him he was

59:44

his accent and the rest the movie even like on weekends it was it was him

59:48

christian and i could

59:49

we would talk about stuff and his kid but he would just speak in that voice and

59:53

i was like oh it's that

59:54

simple like it's not some big thing like once you get the voice that is weird

59:58

you know but i took it

1:00:00

i mean and it's wonderful because then you feel like you're not acting and you're

1:00:02

in the voice and i do it

1:00:04

all like so so i would be in that voice of chris for the whole movie and then

1:00:07

we would go to like

1:00:08

a restaurant when we were like up in lancaster shooting or something and clint

1:00:12

would then make

1:00:12

fun of me in my accent as chris and order a steak and it was just it was it was

1:00:17

great yeah he's

1:00:18

fucking sabotaging your performance he's making you self-conscious that's crazy

1:00:23

it was awesome that's

1:00:25

crazy i always wondered what it's like to be around someone is like method

1:00:28

whether i don't know that's

1:00:30

i wouldn't you know method is also a term that you know what does it mean well

1:00:34

the method well

1:00:35

what happened it started in russia right and then uh um you know that book uh

1:00:39

on acting that i should

1:00:41

know um you know what's his name he came and then the group theater started it

1:00:47

was like you know and

1:00:48

all these people then disbanded and there's harry meisner and there's yes stanislavski

1:00:53

exactly and

1:00:54

there was this other guy vok tangoff that also talked about uh that every

1:00:57

rehearsal it's very

1:00:58

interesting and i read all this in grad school and then the group theater came

1:01:03

in and then ilia kazan

1:01:04

was a huge part of it becoming popular because you had this guy that was

1:01:07

sweeping floors of the actor

1:01:08

studio and then started directing plays and then all of a sudden he's a huge

1:01:11

movie director and he's

1:01:12

putting marlon brando who's part of the actor studio starring in his movies you

1:01:17

know and and he's

1:01:19

doing and so it all just sort of erupted but then it branched out and so there's

1:01:24

people that are

1:01:25

dogmatic about it about it's only using your you know you're substituting so if

1:01:28

i'm doing a scene

1:01:29

with you like you aren't you you're my brother you know right but but but it's

1:01:33

evolved into it's like

1:01:34

what works for you to me it's like you use your your own experience plus your

1:01:38

imagination

1:01:39

you know but that's that's the sort that's the you know sort of a very layman's

1:01:45

50 second uh

1:01:47

you know telling of what the origin of the method is but i went to the actor

1:01:51

studio which is based in the

1:01:52

method that's where i went to grad school um is it and it's very valuable

1:01:57

because i didn't know

1:01:58

before that i mean i did a couple of plays at georgetown i didn't know anything

1:02:02

i mean i just

1:02:02

loved acting but i didn't do anything about it i was terrified as a kid like we

1:02:06

did this thing in

1:02:07

high school where we had to as seniors we would put on our show where we would

1:02:11

make fun of our teachers

1:02:12

and i like i could do my latin teacher mr burke i was like and i actually sang

1:02:16

in it we sang and i was

1:02:17

like but i was terrified joe for the whole year sleepless nights for a year

1:02:21

leading up to it

1:02:22

that's how scared i was in public i remember doing like a fifth grade

1:02:24

presentation with the poster

1:02:26

boards about lock and hobbs and the poster shaking so hard because i was

1:02:29

because i was so nervous i was

1:02:31

like how am i gonna what's this fear thing isn't that weird i know but then in

1:02:35

college i did a couple

1:02:36

of plays but i still didn't know what i was doing but i loved it and i was like

1:02:39

little stuff i was like

1:02:40

asalan the server in dangerous liaisons but i still remember like i closed the

1:02:45

door in a rhythm rhythmic

1:02:46

way and people laughed and i remember i was like oh oh this feels good and then

1:02:52

and then so i applied

1:02:53

to grad school there and then all of a sudden it was like i got a huge

1:02:58

foundation of like what i could

1:03:00

do you know that your insecurities are actually your attributes your fears or

1:03:04

stuff that you know all this

1:03:05

thing that you're a sensitive kid this is all good stuff and i never felt that

1:03:10

way before about any of

1:03:11

that and i had this teacher elizabeth kemp who was incredible who then passed

1:03:15

away in my house years

1:03:16

later she got sick yeah it's crazy passed away in your house yeah in venice california

1:03:21

she was six so

1:03:22

we put her hospice there but um she was incredible and she did this basic

1:03:25

technique class and it was the

1:03:27

first time ever because i didn't you know grow up therapy or and none of that

1:03:31

was even you know in

1:03:33

the vicinity of talking about your feelings you know my i loved my dad but i

1:03:37

grew up in you know the 80s

1:03:39

in northeast philadelphia with an irish italian upbringing that wasn't part of

1:03:44

the deal and um

1:03:46

and then all of a sudden in grad school with other guys and women and we're

1:03:49

like laying down and

1:03:50

she wants us to go through an experience of loss and betrayal when we were

1:03:53

children it's like what

1:03:54

the fuck and actually i could take all that stuff i've been ashamed of and i

1:03:58

could use it and bring it

1:04:00

into art i don't know really clicked with me in a huge way um so and i use it

1:04:05

even to this day all

1:04:06

the movies i do i always get the actors together and do like a workshop for a

1:04:10

week that's based on

1:04:12

dreams that she also taught me and i just find it invaluable any way you can

1:04:15

just how can i just get

1:04:16

to a place where we're just talking to each other and i don't you know what

1:04:20

could and then all this

1:04:21

stuff i feel it's okay right right yeah when you're doing a guy like chris it

1:04:26

must also be kind of

1:04:28

easier to keep the accent than to try to re-establish it right before every

1:04:32

scene you just said it

1:04:33

it's a logical thing yeah that's it it's a logical thing the idea of me talking

1:04:39

with an accent or even

1:04:40

thinking that it's an accent because you don't think about it anymore the whole

1:04:43

point is i'm not

1:04:44

doing an act if i'm doing a scene with you and i'm thinking about how i'm

1:04:48

talking it's over it's

1:04:49

a wrap right it's not real right but if i'm just talking to you and it happens

1:04:54

to be the voice that

1:04:55

i've been working on for however long time then we're in it we got a shot yeah

1:04:59

and if i'm stopping

1:05:00

it there's no way i'm not thinking about so yes joe that is the reason you know

1:05:06

what's a really

1:05:07

underappreciated talent is voice actors who do audiobooks i was watching a

1:05:14

video of this guy

1:05:15

because i never knew how they did it and i kind of assumed that whenever they

1:05:19

had to change accents

1:05:21

they probably had a pause where they were but there's like there's a video of a

1:05:27

guy doing the

1:05:28

voiceover for lord of the rings the lord of the rings audiobook and he goes

1:05:32

into smeagol he goes into

1:05:33

the golem character while he's doing narration there's no break he just

1:05:38

smoothly transitions

1:05:39

it's incredible it's nuts it is absolutely masterful and completely underappreciated

1:05:48

yeah i agree with

1:05:48

you because if you watch this guy do it i i don't know the gentleman's name who's

1:05:52

the voiceover actor

1:05:53

but i love audiobooks this that guy listen to this guy oh it's andy circus

1:05:59

holding a debate with some

1:06:02

other thought that used the same voice but made it squeak and hiss a pale light

1:06:10

and a green light

1:06:11

alternated in his eyes as he spoke

1:06:19

and you're talking about a master actor yes yeah you know because he's been in

1:06:44

a lot of movies he's

1:06:45

directed he directed that great movie uh that was like uh jungle book a version

1:06:49

of jungle book that

1:06:50

christian bale actually played the panther i believe he's incredible and i got

1:06:54

to meet him he he's like

1:06:55

this guy's like a one-off generational talent yeah he's insane you have to be

1:07:01

yeah to be that good at

1:07:02

voiceover yeah and he's just a great actor yeah you have to be yeah yeah i i

1:07:07

agree and my mother watches

1:07:08

this uh she'll kill me that i'm saying my mother watches first of all she loves

1:07:13

turkish uh soap operas

1:07:15

so she watches everything turkish oh yeah yeah yeah why them specifically i don't

1:07:19

know she just she

1:07:19

she graduated from hallmark into turkish

1:07:26

channel and uh and then she's evolved even further she just watches the screens

1:07:31

where there's two people ai images and it's just a person telling a story and i

1:07:37

often i'll come down

1:07:37

making breakfast because when she stays with me in new york she has the room

1:07:40

down there and i'll be like

1:07:41

making my daughter breakfast and i could hear it or i'll go to the bathroom

1:07:44

which is right next to her

1:07:45

and i was like wow these guys these voices i mean the guy's carrying it all it's

1:07:48

just an image

1:07:49

and she'll watch it for hours and i'm like what's gonna happen is he gonna make

1:07:54

that is the firm gonna

1:07:55

hire him is she gonna did she see the note like he's it's amazing i was like

1:07:59

yeah it's really an art form

1:08:01

turkish yeah i remember the first time i came down i was like oh no what

1:08:05

happened because i'm just

1:08:06

hearing i'm like what happened and i walk in and i'm like mom what are you what

1:08:09

are you watching

1:08:10

she's like oh no this guy's the best actor in the world this guy and so she

1:08:15

just reads the

1:08:15

subtitles yeah she did it for like she's watching it's called um uh if you look

1:08:23

up uh

1:08:24

he's like what's it called circle uh is it dove bird bird something

1:08:33

how could i forget it oh baby is that it early bird

1:08:40

early bird oh yeah oh yeah explain this so it's a soap it's a soap opera there's

1:08:46

like 360 episodes

1:08:47

she's watched them all like five four times and she'll come in she'll like do a

1:08:52

marathon session

1:08:54

come in to make some food she's like this guy just the way he moves this guy's

1:08:59

the best actor

1:09:01

that's that's him that's him that's him yeah that's him is it speaking in turkish

1:09:06

oh yeah yeah oh yeah

1:09:08

here's some of this this looks like um yeah that's it yeah there he is

1:09:19

yeah there he is and so she likes this and she does the voiceover she reads the

1:09:26

no so that's that's that was the middle stage now she's graduated to it's

1:09:29

different now where she just

1:09:30

watches two ai images and it's a story but she did this for a good like eight

1:09:35

years but why was she into

1:09:39

this i don't know she must have come across it one day on somewhere and then

1:09:42

that was it she just got

1:09:44

hooked oh i mean hooked isn't even the word yeah by the way it's pretty good is

1:09:50

it yeah yeah you watch

1:09:51

it yeah yeah yeah he's great and the other woman in it's great too yeah do you

1:09:56

consume a lot of films

1:09:58

do you watch i watch a lot of everything yeah i love television uh films and

1:10:04

then you know like eight

1:10:05

months ago i i know i'm late to the game came across across podcasts only eight

1:10:10

months ago yeah pretty much

1:10:12

yeah yeah that's interesting isn't it yeah yeah what what made you get into

1:10:16

that

1:10:17

i can't remember but it was your podcast and i'm trying to think what it was

1:10:24

and then and then it was like oh and then i came and then you know once you

1:10:27

watch something on your

1:10:29

phone it like suggests other things and uh and then you had two guys on that i

1:10:33

thought really

1:10:34

interesting and then they do a trigonometry yeah and then i find that very

1:10:38

fascinating oh they're

1:10:39

great yeah great and so that's how it just started so now it's like a huge part

1:10:42

of like i have this

1:10:43

whole little thing like like often i'll go to bed and my daughter's listening

1:10:47

to your voice

1:10:48

but i do put on headphones sometimes because i love like just at the end of the

1:10:51

day listening

1:10:52

listening or watching i'll put it on the side table yeah it's very podcasts are

1:10:56

incredible it's very

1:10:57

soothing very soothing that's interesting i hardly ever listen to them anymore

1:11:02

i love i love tv i love it yeah i

1:11:04

i take in a lot of content have you watched the beast in me on netflix i did oh

1:11:09

dude holy

1:11:11

shit dude dude and that guy um carrie russell's husband matthew reese dude the

1:11:18

the bad guy yeah

1:11:19

how good is that guy so i did a movie with him years ago called burnt about a

1:11:24

chef and we had never met

1:11:26

and there's a scene where my character he was trying to get sober and he's he

1:11:30

went off the wagon and he goes

1:11:32

and that this guy their old nemesis they were nemesis with each other his

1:11:35

restaurant after hours

1:11:37

and um it was like a pretty dark scene that we never met me and this guy this

1:11:43

actor right before

1:11:44

we shot and i come in and then i don't know what was i was pretty it was i was

1:11:49

pretty locked in

1:11:50

and there's one scene which wasn't really scripted and i took you know those

1:11:54

sous vide bags

1:11:55

and i put it over my head to try to because he's trying to kill himself which

1:11:59

by the way i was like

1:12:00

oh this this could work if i don't get help those things are strong and tight

1:12:06

and then we had this

1:12:08

experience joe where then he was ripping it off me trying to for me not to kill

1:12:14

myself and i don't

1:12:15

know him that well but we had that's the thing about like making art together

1:12:18

like we had that it'll never

1:12:20

every time i see him i've seen him maybe six times of like certain things or

1:12:25

something i always feel

1:12:27

like we're bonded forever just based on this one experience that we had and he's

1:12:31

an incredible actor

1:12:33

he's just and he and i the end of that show him in the end oh god dude and claire

1:12:37

danes is like off the

1:12:38

chart did you see that show she did with jesse eisenberg what's um there's a

1:12:43

there's another

1:12:44

series she did homeland no no no it was like fleischmann that's something with

1:12:49

fleischmann

1:12:50

yeah fleischmann there's this no yeah she's incredible in that there's a scene

1:12:55

where she's

1:12:55

basically having a mental breakdown and you're watching you're like this this

1:12:59

can't be acting

1:12:59

yes in trouble yeah it's on fx i never even heard of this yeah it's really good

1:13:07

yeah i enjoyed it but

1:13:08

and i enjoyed her at the end there's one scene that like really rocked me where

1:13:11

i just fully

1:13:12

i mean this is like i just saw this movie hamnet i don't know if you guys saw

1:13:15

that or not no

1:13:16

that's what i love about it so jesse buckley in this movie it's basically

1:13:22

playing like the most

1:13:24

difficult role ever the loss and all that stuff and i fully joe full i'm

1:13:28

watching and sitting there

1:13:30

fully believing that this person is going through this do you know what i mean

1:13:34

yeah like it when you do

1:13:35

that when i believe that you're actually going through it i mean that's it that's

1:13:40

and like

1:13:40

that her performance in that movie is so she's so good dude dude dude then in

1:13:45

each of the claire

1:13:45

danes or jesse buckley no jesse jesse no claire danes yeah claire danes and jesse

1:13:50

yeah they're

1:13:50

both amazing claire danes is so good in the beast in me there there's there's

1:13:54

moments where like her

1:13:55

fucking lips are trembling she's touched her eyes are darting back right she's

1:14:01

touched yes no question

1:14:03

yeah no question yeah she locks in in this very crazy way she was great in

1:14:08

fucking homeland too

1:14:09

yeah she never saw homeland oh it's great it's really good she just locks in

1:14:14

she locks in in this

1:14:16

very strange way where you fucking 100 believe her yeah like believe it behind

1:14:20

the eyes it's the

1:14:21

greatest yeah i mean that's what that's the heroine for me in this industry it's

1:14:25

like when you're

1:14:25

around you're creating this thing and it's just and all of a sudden it's like

1:14:29

whoa yeah yeah holy

1:14:31

shit it's happening but it's like i had this conversation with ethan hawk i was

1:14:34

because i was

1:14:35

asking him about but i felt like that with will just real quick you know that

1:14:38

vampire scene that's not

1:14:40

because i was i was operating it right i i i don't know how you felt watching

1:14:44

it the scene when he

1:14:44

was on stage at the very end yes yes yes i was like i fully believed it yes and

1:14:49

those people and

1:14:50

then when i went to the audience and they're just like right they didn't know

1:14:53

what the fuck's going

1:14:54

on right right like that was one of those moments i had on this movie where i

1:14:58

was like oh my man is

1:14:59

locked yeah the fuck in oh 100 yeah 100 it was very uncomfortable you felt that

1:15:04

yes yeah 100 definitely i was i have this conversation with ethan hawk about

1:15:10

that i go what

1:15:11

is happening when i believe someone like i was talking about the scene in um

1:15:16

that movie with him

1:15:17

and julia roberts the about the oh yeah yeah yeah of course there's there's a

1:15:21

scene with him and kevin

1:15:23

bacon yeah when they go to the house and also uh there's three guys in that

1:15:27

scene um oh my god he's

1:15:29

amazing yeah from moonlight he's been tons of stuff uh green book i know him

1:15:35

yeah jamie will pull it up

1:15:37

i can't i'll his name if i pronounce it all right what is it sorry i'm working

1:15:43

um

1:15:43

oh wow it said marshall ali that's it marshall yes um i believe it i know that's

1:15:52

kevin bacon i know

1:15:53

that's ethan hawk right i believe he's gonna shoot him yeah no question i

1:15:56

believe it yeah like i go what

1:15:57

is that like what is going on i go because is it it's almost like a form of hypnosis

1:16:03

yes and he's like

1:16:04

yes yeah that's it yeah you have to actually be there you actually you have to

1:16:09

actually be there

1:16:10

like yeah you're saying the lines you're supposed to say but what's happening

1:16:15

is like you really are

1:16:16

there you really believe it and that if you don't believe it the audience doesn't

1:16:20

believe it and we've

1:16:22

all been there before like one time i ate an edible and i went to go see uh one

1:16:26

of those marvel movies

1:16:28

and in the middle i was really high right and while i was watching the middle

1:16:32

like this guy's acting

1:16:33

you know it's just like of course it just made you know really sensitive and

1:16:39

tuned in i get angry

1:16:40

because i'm like i want to i want to go on the ride i'm like the best watcher

1:16:43

because i want i want

1:16:44

when that thing starts yeah i want to go on the ride i want to go on the ride

1:16:47

yes like like him and

1:16:49

denzel in training day yeah like that there's a few scenes where you're like

1:16:53

okay this is really

1:16:54

oh yeah especially in the car yes that's the one oh yeah this is really

1:16:58

happening like this is real

1:17:00

yeah even hawk's so good in that movie yeah he's great yeah he's great and

1:17:04

everything but he's sick

1:17:06

in that movie but he's also when you talk to him you realize okay this is an

1:17:10

actual artist yeah he's a

1:17:11

unique dude yeah yeah he's not a guy who's like trying to be a movie star no he's

1:17:15

an artist that

1:17:16

does movies yeah but i don't know how many people i don't know it's like how

1:17:21

many comedians who just

1:17:22

want to be famous are going to i don't even know how you could do you have to

1:17:26

love it right it's just

1:17:27

too hard that's not enough of a fuel it's it's not that what how that's just

1:17:31

not enough fuel it won't

1:17:32

take you far it's just not a fuel to keep doing it right because if you don't

1:17:36

love it i think you would

1:17:37

find it monotonous and maybe boring and tedious and inconsequential you're

1:17:42

going on a road trip with

1:17:43

an eighth of a tank of gas you're not going to make it you're not going to make

1:17:46

it stomping on the gas

1:17:47

and trying to pull out of the parking lot but it's not that yeah it's a long

1:17:51

drive and my experience in

1:17:52

the 26 years i've been in this is like most of the people if not all that i've

1:17:56

worked with they love it

1:17:58

yes they love it they have to otherwise yeah if you want to be great at

1:18:01

something you have to love it

1:18:03

yeah i can't i can't imagine yeah because it's not even that you want yes you

1:18:07

want to be great at it

1:18:08

but you just love doing it right that's it right and the love is how it becomes

1:18:13

great and then the

1:18:14

fear is when you get famous or people get popular early that can be confusing

1:18:19

because you start to

1:18:20

have like um i have to maintain a certain you start getting careful like i was

1:18:25

thinking about when you

1:18:26

said like what is that thing when it just it's hypnosis the key to that is

1:18:30

willing to fail that's

1:18:33

what i learned as an actor is like oh yeah just don't take it too seriously

1:18:38

here we go we're rolling

1:18:39

the camera we can let's just here let's see what happens i'm going to go out on

1:18:42

a limb maybe it won't

1:18:43

work but like yeah be willing to like completely fail yeah and the minute you

1:18:49

do that it's like oh and all

1:18:52

of a sudden there's this reservoir of space in your head and your soul to

1:18:56

actually create even more of

1:18:59

an imaginary circumstances now if you haven't done your work you're anyway but

1:19:04

like but once you're

1:19:04

there it's like once you're like oh yeah everybody we could just fail let's

1:19:08

just let's just fail how

1:19:09

do you does that make sense it 100 makes sense it makes sense because the only

1:19:13

way you're going to

1:19:14

really find out what it is is to like try it all kinds of ways yeah that we i

1:19:19

was just having the

1:19:20

conversation you know brian cowan our mutual friend uh he he texted me last

1:19:24

night he's like i got a new

1:19:25

bit and i just ate a dick i have to go up on stage with it tonight it's fucking

1:19:29

terrible he goes but i

1:19:30

know there's something in there and we were we were talking on the phone right

1:19:33

before the show he's like

1:19:33

dude my fucking new bitch is bombed it ate dick last night i don't know what to

1:19:37

do i got but i know

1:19:38

there's something there it's like you've got to be willing to bomb you got to

1:19:43

be willing to eat a dick if

1:19:45

you don't i don't know how yeah i don't know any if you're careful you're it's

1:19:49

you're it's over you

1:19:50

can't careful is death i talked to chris rock once and he told me that that bit

1:19:54

that he did that was

1:19:55

one of his all-time classic blit bits i love black people i hate n-word right

1:19:59

right he goes that bit

1:20:01

bombed for like a year right he couldn't get it to work he's like i know there's

1:20:07

something in there

1:20:08

but i have to find it yeah it took a year and think we're talking about a year

1:20:14

of going up at the store

1:20:15

going up at the improv going here going to the laugh factor going here going

1:20:19

there

1:20:20

pulling your hair out trying to figure it out a year man and when you're chris

1:20:26

rock you're

1:20:27

already chris rock and you for you know you could talk about getting your dick

1:20:31

sucked you talk about

1:20:32

something people will laugh and you're like i think there's something here i

1:20:36

gotta grind this

1:20:37

fucking thing down until i get an edge to it and it took him a year yeah like

1:20:42

you have to

1:20:43

be willing to fuck around and to suffer through all that yeah and enjoy the

1:20:47

suffering you start to

1:20:48

like once you do it enough fail enough in front of people it starts to be

1:20:53

easier yeah and then you

1:20:54

come out on the other end you're like yeah and i'm still alive i'm still alive

1:20:58

yeah this wasn't as

1:20:59

big as i thought no and then you have to do it again that's and then you put

1:21:02

out a special and then

1:21:03

once you put out a special you start from scratch and then you're fucking

1:21:06

terrified because now

1:21:08

you're a famous comedian with no material or terrible material and you have to

1:21:12

figure out a way to make

1:21:13

it good and that plays into what i was talking about like when you have when

1:21:16

you've achieved something

1:21:18

and then there's that pressure you put on yourself that it has to be that good

1:21:21

or better right and then

1:21:23

all of a sudden you're in a different game than than just like the doing i

1:21:27

think that play it safe game

1:21:30

is the scariest game or yeah or somehow think that it's it's somehow that

1:21:34

controllable because really

1:21:35

all this stuff we're talking about it's really kind of out of our control you

1:21:39

know when it's working

1:21:41

i don't feel in control at all right you feel like a passenger yeah and that's

1:21:45

by the way that's the

1:21:46

high uh there's nothing fun about controlling everything there's no fun in that

1:21:50

but when you're

1:21:51

like whoa wait a second what's happening like the zone is a passenger yeah it's

1:21:55

like being an observer

1:21:56

of something sports too i think it works in every field it's like oh yeah they

1:22:00

talk about it you know

1:22:01

it's like yeah that's it that's it and it just takes a ton a year of doing the

1:22:06

thing you know because

1:22:07

there are moments that i can even think of where because you do think that's

1:22:10

okay it doesn't matter

1:22:11

there are a couple where like actually if this moment doesn't work out like it

1:22:15

may not be over

1:22:16

but you're definitely going to go down along the ladder yeah you know and it's

1:22:21

like okay and that's

1:22:22

that pressure you know yeah you gotta love it how do you pick a project like

1:22:28

how do you decide

1:22:30

what you want to do and how much time do you spend deliberating on it

1:22:36

because you're in a unique position where you can do a lot of things yeah you

1:22:39

can kind of do whatever

1:22:40

you want so it's like what gets your juices going like how do you decide what

1:22:46

to do it's all about

1:22:48

um something igniting in me that uh like for example uh when i was little i

1:22:54

thought like i always

1:22:56

obsessed with vietnam i was obsessed as a kid vietnam the war in vietnam and my

1:23:02

math teacher was uh was a

1:23:04

recon in vietnam bill calm and i was like obsessed with this guy and he was

1:23:09

fascinating fascinating

1:23:11

he was a pole vaulter and that was his cue for the chalkboard was a broken one

1:23:15

of his broken pole

1:23:16

vault um sticks oh wow and he would always and he always wore sweatpants and he

1:23:21

would lean against the

1:23:22

thing so all day long half of his sweatpants would be full of chalk and he

1:23:27

would always smoke cigarettes

1:23:29

on the athletic field and stand on the bench and so he'd always be perched

1:23:33

there and like my dad he would

1:23:35

never put out his butts he would always save them so he always smelled like

1:23:38

like tobacco his hands

1:23:39

and i and then my this other guy came his father came and talked about this

1:23:44

book guns up which is

1:23:45

incredible book about machine gunner in vietnam so and then i asked my dad if i

1:23:48

could go to the military

1:23:50

academy like i would do something and then like you know thin red line

1:23:54

destroyed me the terrence malick

1:23:56

movie and apocalypse i was like obsessed with and all these films um and so i

1:24:01

always wanted to do

1:24:03

something about i always felt like i had a love enough and an interest enough

1:24:06

that playing a soldier

1:24:08

would be something that i felt like i had a reservoir so that led me to chris

1:24:12

that was that um it's all specific things it was just joseph merrick you know

1:24:17

the alpha man like when i

1:24:19

was i had no money and i took it i got a one i'm tower air went to london uh

1:24:23

and like tracked his his

1:24:25

steps at hospital road and where he went out just because i was obsessed with

1:24:28

this guy joseph merrick

1:24:30

the elephant man and then it wound up you know then making it you know doing

1:24:34

the play at broadway where

1:24:35

they originated it you know and then um stars born was really about i just love

1:24:42

i always wanted to

1:24:42

direct i don't think i dreamt that big but i i really realized what i loved

1:24:46

about the process of

1:24:48

the industry i meant is the making of it i never felt like i fit in just acting

1:24:52

i never felt like i

1:24:54

thought like at the first like like you like i went to la with a job like i

1:24:58

went to grad school in new

1:24:59

york i thought i'd just be a theater actor if i was lucky if i could make a

1:25:02

living as an actor i

1:25:03

this is a home run my dad was terrified you know because he came from north philadelphia

1:25:07

only got to come out of the neighborhood kind of there were a couple other guys

1:25:10

but then he became

1:25:11

a stockbroker and then his son's gonna do acting and be 70 grand in debt uh in

1:25:17

grad school you know

1:25:19

fanny may thank god but like you know and i didn't know i was gonna pay it off

1:25:22

and uh but but that said

1:25:24

i we we grew up like upper middle class but still i was like i'm paying for

1:25:27

grad school i took a loan

1:25:28

out and then so he was terrified and then i got a job on this show alias it

1:25:32

brought me to la but the

1:25:33

minute i got there i didn't know anything about check the gate i didn't nothing

1:25:36

you know what i mean

1:25:37

i didn't nothing i just loved movies and so i was obsessed joe obsessed i would

1:25:42

go in the editing

1:25:43

room and i found out like very hard when i was when i went there i got very

1:25:46

depressed i was like this is

1:25:48

high school all over again me too that's exactly how i was like what i mean i

1:25:52

could i went to grad

1:25:53

school i'm in new york city there's guys that i could relate to and talk about

1:25:57

movies i was in heaven

1:25:59

then i get this job that i think is going to be the holy grail and i'm

1:26:03

miserable living in the first

1:26:05

floor of this woman's house just like it was crazy i was like i didn't know i

1:26:09

could be this depressed

1:26:11

i mean depressed like i need water and like the idea of going to the right aid

1:26:15

on um on uh sunset and

1:26:17

and fairfax was like too much yeah and uh yeah that was rough it's depressing

1:26:23

yeah when you first go

1:26:25

especially when you're in that weird environment and no one just no and i was

1:26:30

on a show that was

1:26:31

awesome and everybody's exploding and like no one it was like who who's this

1:26:35

guy so that not only that

1:26:37

i'm there and everybody's like you know i'm just like you know a ghost right

1:26:40

right so there's that

1:26:42

so your insecurity is just you know exempt is just you know astronomical it was

1:26:47

for me it was also one

1:26:48

of the first times that i ever moved somewhere where i didn't know anyone me

1:26:52

too i knew nobody jj abrams

1:26:54

hired me and and then berkey this guy was the only guy that i knew that he

1:26:58

introduced me to and then

1:26:59

i met jennifer garner was like the second person i met and then yeah i didn't

1:27:03

know anybody it's weird

1:27:05

yeah i remember i was on the set of the show brian klugman i didn't know that

1:27:09

guy who's like one of my

1:27:10

best friends great you know brian klugman no i know who he is though yeah he's

1:27:13

we grew up since we

1:27:14

were like nine oh wow yeah um i was on the set of this show and um a girl gave

1:27:19

me a hug and i realized

1:27:21

no one had touched me in weeks and the hug she gave me i was like oh it was

1:27:27

like my battery got

1:27:29

recharged like i didn't realize i needed a hug you know people people say do

1:27:32

you need a hug

1:27:34

like i never thought like nobody needs a hug right no i needed a hug i was very

1:27:37

similar she's like

1:27:38

give me a hug she hugged me i was like oh thank you yeah i felt so good it's it's

1:27:44

weird it's a weird

1:27:45

feeling it's a it's a hell of a place to go oh it is like wow yeah yeah i had a

1:27:51

hard time well the whole

1:27:52

environment of la is so strange because you have the primary industry if it's

1:28:01

not the primary industry

1:28:02

it's most certainly driving all under all other industries is a bunch of people

1:28:08

trying to make it

1:28:09

right so it's a bunch of people with a hole in their soul they need to fill up

1:28:12

with other people's

1:28:13

attention and they're coming there to try to get attention they're trying

1:28:17

coming there to try to make

1:28:19

it and the one thing that they have to do is audition so you have to try to be

1:28:26

accepted by someone so you'd

1:28:28

be judged you go in there and you get return you get rejected over and over and

1:28:33

over again which just

1:28:35

fuels the same like need that's inside you it like makes it even worse and

1:28:40

everybody's concentrating on

1:28:42

this one thing like trying to get success and then you realize like oh my

1:28:46

doctor wanted to be an actor

1:28:47

oh the waiter's an actor like every everyone's trying to do this thing where

1:28:51

you have to get chosen

1:28:53

so then people calculate how they behave and talk and what their political

1:28:59

philosophy is and their life

1:29:01

philosophies based on becoming ingratiating themselves with casting directors

1:29:07

and with executives like

1:29:09

getting these people to like you and then these people realize that so they

1:29:12

have like they they're

1:29:14

controlling this the twigs that work the puppet strings and it just becomes

1:29:19

this very strange

1:29:20

environment of a complete lack of any like real critical thinking and any real

1:29:27

like uh embracing any

1:29:30

alternative perspectives on things everyone is just trying to align their stars

1:29:35

correctly so that they can

1:29:37

make it i mean that was weird my experience was more because i went there with

1:29:41

a job

1:29:41

right right and you know new york for me i don't know i went on 2 000 auditions

1:29:46

like i remember when

1:29:47

i first booked a job with sex in the city i booked some commercials and extra

1:29:51

work which was great but

1:29:52

the first job i booked i remember i was like i was terrified because i got to

1:29:55

the point where i was

1:29:57

i was a doorman in a hotel and i would audition and that was a great life and i

1:30:01

if i got a call back it

1:30:02

was great but then when i had to do it i remember literally like whoa i have to

1:30:05

do like wait wait

1:30:06

what i'm actually to do it um what was it what was the first thing it was i

1:30:10

played jake the downtown

1:30:12

smoker in the sex in the city with sarah jessica park and i couldn't drive uh

1:30:14

standard never learned

1:30:15

how to drive standards they sent me to odell odell's driving school and all i

1:30:19

thought about was like

1:30:20

don't have her head hit the dashboard when we pull into the corner and i still

1:30:24

messed it up and they

1:30:25

had another guy do it and then i just had to do this thing you know when the

1:30:27

camera's here and you go

1:30:28

you okay you know like you're pulling in yeah but i worked so hard on it um no

1:30:34

but la for me

1:30:35

it was i think it for me at least was the geography you going from new york

1:30:40

city where

1:30:41

you know you can go to bar six which is on sixth avenue no matter who you are

1:30:46

you go there a couple

1:30:47

friends like you just feel like you're in a cool place or a place that's

1:30:52

vibrant la it's like if i

1:30:54

wasn't at work i was in i was in that that first floor of the house or my car

1:31:00

rental car yes and

1:31:02

that was it and like and and the world which i could feel because i was seeing

1:31:06

posters everywhere

1:31:07

and billboards which i had never been except for driving to atlantic city you

1:31:11

know and seeing who

1:31:12

was gonna you know gonna be you know as a residency that it was really the

1:31:17

stimulus the stimuli of that

1:31:20

city aesthetically and how compartmentalized it is so what i felt like like it's

1:31:26

if you're not in you're

1:31:28

out right and i just remember thinking like some somebody somewhere in this

1:31:32

town is having a ball right

1:31:33

now and it's not me do you know what i mean yeah and then that just leads to

1:31:38

how can i cope you know

1:31:41

and like you know not getting into bars clubs you know and like girls not

1:31:45

really looking at you

1:31:47

you know and all that stuff and all of a sudden it's like seventh grade and i'm

1:31:51

25 years old and it's

1:31:53

like and i should be happy because i paid by the end of this year i'm going to

1:31:56

pay off my student loan

1:31:58

but i'm fucking miserable and what's wrong with me you know it but to me it was

1:32:03

the geography of

1:32:04

it you know new york city is so wonderful because no matter what you're

1:32:07

thinking like when i did the

1:32:09

elephant man i would take the subway to 42nd street and my preparation for the

1:32:12

play was getting

1:32:13

off the subway going to the theater because the amount of thousands of people

1:32:18

that are forcing

1:32:19

me to be present yes was wonderful it was like doing a 12 minute relaxation

1:32:23

because you're just

1:32:24

it's life and you're like get through you know and then by the time you get to

1:32:29

the theater you're like

1:32:30

okay you know but la it's like you're in your car and the thing you pull up to

1:32:35

the studio the thing

1:32:37

you walk and you know and then all of a sudden it's like okay here we go and

1:32:40

you're like okay hold

1:32:41

on a second yeah that thing that new york has that la doesn't have is all walks

1:32:48

of life are all

1:32:51

intertwined you're walking down the street together there's a billionaire and a

1:32:55

homeless guy and a

1:32:56

fucking you know ne'er-do-well and an office worker and everyone's walking to

1:33:00

where they go and they

1:33:02

walk into restaurants and they get in cabs and they get on the subway and

1:33:06

everybody intermingles

1:33:08

where in la it's you get in your car you drive to a place and then you go to

1:33:13

your house and you don't

1:33:15

ever like walk around and if some weird interaction happened on set or someone

1:33:19

said something you're

1:33:20

like oh then you're just a home thinking about it right do you know what i mean

1:33:24

there's no like

1:33:25

well i went on and did this after that you know and i actually took up golf

1:33:29

which is crazy and i would

1:33:30

play at the malibu had this public golf course and i would say i gotta do

1:33:33

something because i'm an early

1:33:35

morning i wake up early i've always have so i'm up at like 5 30 and so i did

1:33:40

like a 6 47 tea time with

1:33:42

these two guys and that was actually nice i did that for six months and i would

1:33:46

play but like you just try

1:33:47

to find something that you know i just need to interact and do something else

1:33:51

something that makes

1:33:51

you human yeah yeah yeah for me but i have to say like i do love oh interesting

1:33:55

yeah michael vartan

1:33:57

who was on alias huge did you ever play pool with him no oh he was he would go

1:34:01

all the time no kidding

1:34:02

yeah oh yeah i met him yeah he would go all the time yeah to that one place

1:34:06

that had like tons of uh

1:34:08

i'm sure you know it probably hollywood billiards maybe yeah yeah yeah hollywood

1:34:12

billiards was the spot

1:34:13

yeah yeah it's uh in new york that was a big thing for me too it was like

1:34:17

almost hijacked my comedy

1:34:19

career because i was doing i was playing pool like eight hours a day i was

1:34:22

playing tournaments i was

1:34:23

traveling around and going to tournaments and when i came to la that was like

1:34:27

one of the few things that

1:34:28

made me that made sense to me like oh i get it pool players i know pool players

1:34:32

right hang out with

1:34:33

them they're normal people that's a great asset you had there some having

1:34:36

something yeah yeah martial

1:34:38

arts is always like huge some having something where you have something that

1:34:42

you do because if i was

1:34:43

only doing i'd lose your mind i'd go crazy and i went there and i fell in love

1:34:47

with the movie making

1:34:48

getting back to my original part and i would go and so i'd ask jj abrams if i

1:34:51

could sit in the editing

1:34:53

rooms so i would basically shoot my one scene a week which was like hey how was

1:34:57

your trip sydney

1:34:58

you know i didn't have a big part right and then but i would spend the rest of

1:35:01

the day in the editing

1:35:02

rooms and then i would ask ken olin who was so generous that one of the show

1:35:05

runners if i could just

1:35:08

learn all the time and i would take and i would take everybody's dailies home

1:35:11

that back then it was

1:35:12

in vhs tapes it was carl lumley victor garber ron rifkin all these great victor

1:35:16

and ron were from

1:35:17

new york these great new york new york actors that came out and i would just

1:35:20

watch their dailies and

1:35:22

learn you know just learn and and that's when i was like i love this like i

1:35:28

fucking love this

1:35:29

that's what i love i love when people love things yeah and i do man like i can't

1:35:33

get enough of it

1:35:35

i am 100 fascinated with people that love what they do i i can watch people

1:35:40

make furniture there's a

1:35:42

guy that i watch on youtube who just makes desks and tables right out of like

1:35:47

what is it called live

1:35:49

what is it called when they take it when it has the actual uh outline of the

1:35:54

wood what is it called they

1:35:56

take slabs he takes like slabs of walnut and makes these tables and he narrates

1:36:01

while he's building it

1:36:02

describes the process of it and how he's trying to precisely align all these

1:36:06

joints and these

1:36:07

you know he's like he's got pegs and holes yeah it's the best slide it into

1:36:11

play live edge slab

1:36:12

that's it live edge that's the other great thing about what i get to do so you

1:36:15

do a movie like a

1:36:16

sniper and you get to be with these people who have dedicated their lives to

1:36:21

this thing and you're

1:36:22

watching them do it like in maestro i got to go to the london symphony

1:36:26

orchestra each person

1:36:28

since they were four have been doing this and they're all unicorns do you know

1:36:32

what i mean and

1:36:33

stars born all these musicians it's like even burn i got to go to these

1:36:37

restaurants and study under

1:36:39

these people i mean that's the thing that's like that's the greatest thing in

1:36:42

the world yeah it's

1:36:43

nuts it's it's nuts and like even this movie the access i got to have to the

1:36:48

cellar and all the stuff

1:36:49

and all the people it was like i learned so much more than i ever knew well it

1:36:53

expands you as a

1:36:55

human oh no question you know more about what it is to be a human like oh there's

1:36:59

a human who just

1:37:00

plays the flute yeah you know we were talking in the green room last night

1:37:04

about andre 3000 was that

1:37:05

was the name yeah i'm saying it right yeah i almost said 5000 but that's wrong

1:37:09

andre 3000 from outcast

1:37:11

he plays the flute now that's all he does he plays the flute like a friend of

1:37:15

mine ran into him

1:37:16

in um downtown in um colorado he said he was in in denver just walking around

1:37:23

with his flute

1:37:24

and no one was bothering him and he's like holy he's just playing the flute

1:37:29

yeah

1:37:30

that's a guy who loves what he does just i mean apparently he made an entire

1:37:34

album

1:37:35

where he just plays the flute yeah and he's just like not into doing anything

1:37:40

else yeah

1:37:40

just into like being an artist and playing the flute yeah it's dope right yeah

1:37:46

yeah it's like

1:37:47

fuck i wish i was that guy but you seem to be i mean you did you know uh

1:37:51

hunting and billiards

1:37:53

and already you've got like two up on most people besides what you already do

1:37:57

but i do things that

1:38:00

are that i think are gonna ex help me figure out who i am and i think the only

1:38:09

way you really figure

1:38:10

out who you are is to do difficult things yeah and when you're doing difficult

1:38:13

things you kind of learn

1:38:15

about yourself you learn about oh why do i have this desire to take a shortcut

1:38:19

why don't i go with

1:38:20

the law why don't do it the right way like what what it is what is it about oh

1:38:23

yeah getting good

1:38:25

at something i mean i think me at my base i'm very lazy i think everybody is i

1:38:29

mean it's a default

1:38:30

setting yeah no question default setting for humans goggins talks about it yeah

1:38:34

like goggins talks about

1:38:35

like one of the things about goggins is he always talks about how when he was

1:38:39

fat and lazy like he used

1:38:40

to be fat and lazy now he's like the most disciplined human that's ever lived

1:38:44

and he forced himself to

1:38:45

become that yeah but he's default so he goes he goes he goes even now he goes

1:38:50

sometimes i look at my shoes

1:38:51

for like a half hour before foot pulls motherfuckers on yeah i mean i'll be

1:38:55

doing something during the

1:38:56

day and i'm like i can't wait till my daughter's in bed and i'm upstairs and i'm

1:38:59

just laying down

1:39:00

on the couch and i'm just whatever's on yeah and that's my goal for the day i'm

1:39:04

like what's going on here

1:39:06

sometimes that's good though yeah i i view that as a reset i think it's

1:39:11

important i enjoy it yeah

1:39:13

i don't kill myself over it but i do recognize that there is a feeling but then

1:39:18

i look at you

1:39:18

know i look at this sort of landscape i'm like well it's hard for me to to

1:39:22

categorize myself as lazy

1:39:23

if i just look at the facts yeah you know but i do feel and it's what you're

1:39:27

saying it's that default

1:39:28

setting but i think with everybody it's like normal for human beings to seek

1:39:33

comfort because it's

1:39:34

difficult to acquire especially in tribal societies back when we were just

1:39:38

hunter and gatherers and just

1:39:40

trying to figure out how to stay alive like the idea of relaxation was

1:39:44

impossible yeah and if you

1:39:45

you could get there's no time oh that's what i want i want to stop chasing antelope

1:39:50

just

1:39:50

fucking take a nap or maybe they found a relaxed state in that because you when

1:39:54

you're doing those

1:39:55

things you know for a long period of time i feel like i am relaxed in that but

1:39:59

it just takes a lot of

1:40:01

work yeah you know a lot of over and over but the bet that the true high is

1:40:05

when you're doing these

1:40:07

things where it first started out and you were horrible at it and then all of a

1:40:10

sudden you're going

1:40:11

out on a hunt or whatever and you're like i'm relaxed i've never relaxed on a

1:40:17

hunt well i've never hunted

1:40:18

so it's not a relaxing thing i mean it is a fulfilling i think i mean rich

1:40:23

physically relaxed

1:40:24

like your body's not tense like because the one thing i do know you can't shoot

1:40:28

a gun if you're

1:40:29

tense right impossible to hit what you want right that's the beautiful thing

1:40:32

about shooting is like

1:40:33

you know on the exhale and stop like all that stuff i was like oh this is i had

1:40:37

no idea right

1:40:38

because the first couple times like just just shoot it see how you do well just

1:40:41

think about

1:40:41

like the tiny movements that would deviate the path of the bullet over you know

1:40:47

a lot of these

1:40:48

guys are shooting a mile no it's nuts remember the first couple times with no

1:40:52

no training all like

1:40:53

see i mean it wasn't even near the target yeah you know it's like oh yeah this

1:40:58

is a whole and all

1:41:00

you're doing is this that's it you're just squeezing a trigger and how much is

1:41:04

involved in that like

1:41:05

the synchronization of the mind the eyes the breathing but even the reason the

1:41:09

first time i

1:41:10

didn't have my my boot was i was like like my boot was up and not like that and

1:41:14

they didn't say anything

1:41:15

you know and then the recoil through my shoulder down to that i was like oh

1:41:18

yeah now i understand why

1:41:19

you do that yeah it all just goes out all those things it's like wow but i

1:41:24

think through those things

1:41:27

you learn more about who you are through difficult things and getting better at

1:41:32

difficult things that's

1:41:33

where you learn more about who you are and you realize like oh i can kind of

1:41:38

apply this mindset to

1:41:40

everything and you see with your children uh-huh oh yeah my daughter who loves

1:41:43

to draw if she sees

1:41:44

somebody who's i have a daughter that loves to draw too she's really talented

1:41:48

yeah so i'm i bet if my

1:41:49

daughter drew with your daughter she would stop because she would see how good

1:41:52

she is and she gets so

1:41:53

frustrated this just happened the other day and you know and she'll just rip up

1:41:57

what she's doing which

1:41:57

is wonderful i have it right here so she this i saved this i was like don't rip

1:42:02

it up she did this

1:42:03

yesterday and i was like don't rip it up i'm gonna make it my bookmark ah that's

1:42:06

cool but i'm watch her

1:42:08

process of like dealing with difficulty and and it's like and just trying to

1:42:13

explain like it's it's okay

1:42:15

like you know and being frustrated is okay but i could see myself and her and

1:42:19

what everybody goes through but

1:42:20

isn't that awesome when you're watching your kid go through these things yeah

1:42:24

it's just the greatest

1:42:24

thing in the world it's awesome watching people get obsessed with things and

1:42:28

then progressing

1:42:29

yeah oh and when it's your own child it's the more it's amazing yeah it's

1:42:33

amazing it is cool yeah

1:42:35

like cartwheel took her forever to learn it but now she could do it and i was

1:42:37

like you just keep at it

1:42:39

yeah yeah yeah it's uh learning through someone else's eyes that happens to be

1:42:46

your child is one

1:42:47

of the most magical things ever it's magical because it's the it's it's it man

1:42:54

yeah it's it it's a

1:42:55

different kind of happiness oh yeah one that i never knew was right i was

1:42:58

capable of i'm so glad i had

1:43:00

kids late because i'm 51 i just turned 51 a couple days ago and i had my

1:43:05

daughter's eight can be nine

1:43:07

in march and like i just got lucky that i was able to be in a place in my

1:43:11

career that i could choose

1:43:12

like you said what i do and work from home and just i'm just there through for

1:43:16

all of it and it's awesome

1:43:18

as much as i love the heroine of being in the moment you know and acting in a

1:43:22

great shot or whatever

1:43:23

you're doing and everything's together there's like seven of those every day

1:43:27

with your kid right

1:43:28

like seven we were eating dinner last night at a restaurant and by the way she

1:43:32

was so excited i'm

1:43:33

coming here because she hears all that i was like daddy tomorrow but we're

1:43:36

sitting here in a restaurant

1:43:38

and i'm just looking at her and a little she's got a little hat on and i was

1:43:41

like this is the and i'm

1:43:42

like isn't this the greatest thing in the world and she's like yeah it's the

1:43:45

greatest and i'm like

1:43:47

that's it this is it that's it it's crazy it's like free jolts yeah right you

1:43:52

just get these

1:43:53

free jolts through you never know when they're gonna come right it's like

1:43:56

walking up the stairs

1:43:57

together it's not like in the moment like it just happens it's the it's the it's

1:44:01

the best

1:44:02

yeah it's uh it's a very different experience and i feel bad for people that

1:44:07

never get to feel it it's

1:44:08

one of the few things like i don't think everyone should have children and i'm

1:44:11

not that guy that

1:44:12

says yeah me neither if you don't have kids you don't have a life that's bull i

1:44:16

don't i don't believe

1:44:17

that everybody's different everybody's different and i think we we all need to

1:44:21

respect that everyone's

1:44:22

different but man for me i shudder at the thought of being who i am right now

1:44:28

if i had no children

1:44:30

i don't know if i'd be alive i would be different that's yeah i don't know i

1:44:34

wouldn't be nearly as

1:44:35

compassionate dave chappelle said something to me once that was brilliant he

1:44:38

said not only have

1:44:39

children have as having children changed the amount of love i have he goes it's

1:44:44

changed my capacity for

1:44:45

love yes and understand everything everything there's like before and after

1:44:51

yeah it's true all

1:44:53

the things they say oh it's just true it is true yeah there's no doubt about it

1:44:58

it also made me think

1:44:59

of everyone as a baby i used to think of people as static i used to think i

1:45:04

meet bradley cooper he's 51

1:45:06

that's a 51 year old guy but when i you know had children raised children you

1:45:12

start saying oh this is

1:45:14

a baby that became a person and it's just life experiences genetics environment

1:45:20

all these different

1:45:21

factors here you are now but you are a product of this path and this journey

1:45:26

that you've taken

1:45:27

through life and i give people way more grace because of that yeah i give them

1:45:31

i'm way more

1:45:33

charitable way more compassionate way way more understanding of even people

1:45:39

that suck you know

1:45:40

when i meet someone that sucks i'm like i wish i could have met them when they

1:45:45

were five and see

1:45:46

what it was and maybe help them and it's hard for me to hate people that that

1:45:50

is that has um not served

1:45:52

me so well over the years but ultimately it has but yeah it's hard for me not

1:45:57

to um feel just any other

1:46:01

human being how hard it is to be alive right it is there's just like i don't

1:46:05

know i think it was

1:46:06

hardwired in me has nothing to do with like anything just like yeah it's hard

1:46:11

for me to even people that

1:46:12

are like mean to me you know it's hard for me to like stay mad at them yeah my

1:46:20

wife said something

1:46:21

the other night as i get older as you get older yeah yes when you're young it's

1:46:25

like no yeah i'll

1:46:26

never forget it yeah yeah i'm gonna remember that yeah i saw your true face

1:46:31

yeah yeah it's true but

1:46:32

yeah as i get older oh no question my daughter was talking about some horrible

1:46:37

story in the news of

1:46:38

someone who fucked up their whole life and all these different things and my

1:46:41

wife listens to her and

1:46:42

goes it's hard to be a person yeah man it's hard to be a person being a person

1:46:48

is hard yeah we were all

1:46:50

just sitting there like nodding our head like yeah yeah you can fuck this up

1:46:54

and we're all gonna

1:46:55

fuck it up at one point in time and maybe when you think that you're never

1:46:58

gonna fuck it up again you

1:46:59

fuck it up the worst you've ever fucked it up and you're like how did i do that

1:47:03

how did i do that i

1:47:04

thought i had it together and i fucked it all up worse than i've ever fucked it

1:47:08

up before because nothing

1:47:10

stays stagnant nothing nothing everything's changing all the time and it's just

1:47:14

hard to manage all these

1:47:16

different things it's hard to manage your emotions it's hard to manage conflict

1:47:21

it's hard to manage

1:47:22

relationships it's hard to manage life work balance pressure it's hard yeah it's

1:47:27

not easy and even in

1:47:28

the macro or simple level it's just hard to be existing in a world where you

1:47:32

really we don't know

1:47:33

anything and then you're and the only thing you do know it's not going to last

1:47:36

and and you're going to

1:47:37

be gone and you're bombed on by bad news the news is just bad it's all the time

1:47:43

it's people getting

1:47:45

shot and run over and war and bombings and invasions and it's just exhausting

1:47:52

yeah and that's like in

1:47:54

the background of your mind constantly when you're going about your day it's

1:47:58

like there's this fucking

1:48:00

algorithm that you're being fed it's like whoa yeah and at the same time it's a

1:48:07

miracle to me that the

1:48:09

democratization of information that we live in now that you can choose points

1:48:17

of view to learn about

1:48:19

what people think in a way that when i was growing up three stations news that

1:48:23

was there wasn't right

1:48:25

you know there's something wonderful about it too you know i just talked about

1:48:28

this the other day like

1:48:29

you know everybody's algorithms telling them no i'm not on social media so the

1:48:32

truth is you're not

1:48:33

on it at all no i'm not i don't really know what the i'm talking about so i

1:48:37

should

1:48:37

do it for two my friend was like go on for two weeks and he's right i'm gonna

1:48:40

do it just to

1:48:41

experience it what what is that experience all i have is that one tick tock

1:48:45

moment for 20 minutes

1:48:46

where i was like i gotta stay away because i'll never leave you've never had a

1:48:49

desire to get on it

1:48:51

i do you know i do just the same way i don't put a television in my bedroom

1:48:55

which is like if i do i may never get out of bed yeah you know it's fear yeah i

1:49:00

was like i don't

1:49:01

know just all that stuff like it's you know you know i just want to learn to

1:49:04

the people people you

1:49:05

know the world world gets smaller i feel included because the main thing is

1:49:08

like i just don't want

1:49:09

to feel alone right and to me it feels like social media is a place where you

1:49:12

don't feel alone

1:49:13

because you're just learning about and there's all these people talking to you

1:49:16

yeah but you do feel

1:49:18

alone too ultimately because it's it's the drip as opposed to the real what we

1:49:22

got back to when

1:49:22

we were first started talking it's the illusion of it yes you know if it's

1:49:27

taken out but but it can

1:49:28

but it is worthwhile too it depends on how you contextualize it right and like

1:49:32

anything in life

1:49:34

um yeah i think there's a value to it oh no question by the way the fact that i

1:49:39

should

1:49:39

information watch your show and then go on and the guy who went to the prisons

1:49:44

and you're the kkk guy and

1:49:45

the guy who's the musician blew my mind and i learned all this stuff in those

1:49:50

three hours

1:49:51

just because i chose to you know and that's one of the great things about your

1:49:54

show is

1:49:55

i can feel your curiosity and then i'm learning from your curiosity what things

1:50:01

that i would never

1:50:02

normally know how to go on to yeah that's the most valuable gift of this show

1:50:07

for me it's the best is

1:50:08

that i get to pick who i talk to so i only talk to people that i'm fascinated

1:50:13

by or someone who's

1:50:14

interesting to me or something like oh this is gonna be cool like i don't i don't

1:50:17

go oh i gotta

1:50:19

do this one right there's never that it's always like oh yeah what is it how do

1:50:23

you how do you

1:50:24

fucking study that yeah how'd you get involved in this like where'd you learn

1:50:28

that and i'm like glued to

1:50:30

it yeah it's not like it's in the background i'm like bam yeah you know because

1:50:34

you're so interested

1:50:36

and it gets back to like the acting if you're really interested or not

1:50:40

then it's going to be hard for me to listen to watch it yeah that's why this i

1:50:44

think the only reason

1:50:45

why it works because there was some for sure joe there's no way you can't sit

1:50:48

there and say like

1:50:49

here's the pitch and sit in a room me and whoever three hours basically unedited

1:50:54

they're like that's

1:50:55

not really where we're at no no it's gonna no the most people will listen to it

1:51:00

i'm sorry right but it's

1:51:02

like no the the the nuclear the nuclear fuel is no i'm actually gonna be

1:51:08

curious about what i actually

1:51:11

want to learn and then it's like oh so we're actually going to watch two human

1:51:15

beings talk to

1:51:16

each other oh that's kind of great yeah but that's your nuclear power that that's

1:51:21

why the show is so

1:51:22

magical well that's the only i mean the crazy thing is there was no plan the

1:51:26

way you don't edit it the

1:51:28

way that the pauses are there you know it's even so much as when you're like i

1:51:32

gotta take a piss

1:51:33

and then like it's back i'm always like whoa what just happened yeah weren't we

1:51:36

supposed to go to

1:51:36

the bathroom with them do you know what i mean like i'm so sucked i'm so in the

1:51:41

room

1:51:41

start doing that maybe you start following people to the bathroom do you know

1:51:44

what i mean it's such

1:51:45

like uh wait what yeah wait what do you mean how come how come it just wait

1:51:49

where'd the time

1:51:50

go wait what just happened right yeah because you create that room that i'm in

1:51:54

the room with you

1:51:55

podcasting is weird because it kind of just appeared and no one thought anybody

1:51:59

wanted it

1:52:01

it's fascinating i mean think about it it's i i do think about this a lot

1:52:05

especially because i've

1:52:06

watched your show in the last eight months it's like in the world that's moving

1:52:09

into this one direction

1:52:11

there's this other deep deep need for connection yeah you know and then this is

1:52:16

this is one of the

1:52:17

examples this deep you know live theater live stand-up you know we still do

1:52:23

need to communicate

1:52:25

that hasn't gone away in that way in a carnal not carnal but in a in a human to

1:52:31

human interaction

1:52:33

but i love ai i talked to ai with my daughter i think it's dope i think it's

1:52:38

fascinating fascinating um

1:52:44

but it's not the same yet yet no it's it's interesting very interesting it's

1:52:49

very it's

1:52:50

like i i use it as a companion like a writing companion so what i do is i have

1:52:56

like uh i put my

1:52:57

phone up and i've got it on like a little kickstand right i put perplexity on

1:53:02

when i write so i'm

1:53:04

writing about like mayan and aztec civilizations and what happened when they

1:53:08

got invaded and uh as i'm

1:53:10

writing uh ask questions like how many people did cortez come with 600 how many

1:53:15

muskets did they have

1:53:17

13 they conquered the entire fucking country of mexico with 13 muskets like and

1:53:23

you find out things

1:53:24

and so i i use it like as someone i'm asking questions it's all knowing you

1:53:29

know the entity

1:53:31

that sits on the desk with me and i just and i do it always with my voice i

1:53:36

just press the little button

1:53:37

and i do it with voice too i do i love talking to them it's incredible it's so

1:53:40

good at recognizing

1:53:41

what i'm saying yeah it's a weird name like to know chitlon like i gotta spell

1:53:45

that one right it's not

1:53:46

gonna understand what that temple is but once you use it that way it becomes

1:53:52

like like a genius that

1:53:54

you're hanging out with right talking to i haven't gotten to that level i go

1:53:57

like how was your new

1:53:57

new year's how do you do that dude you ask the ai yeah i'm like i'm curious how

1:54:02

they're gonna process

1:54:03

and like how they're gonna try to communicate well it also it it changes and

1:54:08

becomes more like

1:54:10

what you're asking from it right which is weird yeah well yeah you certainly

1:54:14

use your rhythms and

1:54:15

vernacular and yeah so ces the computer electronic consumer electronic show

1:54:20

they just uh highlighted a

1:54:23

sex robot that's connected to ai and i'm like this is the end this is where it's

1:54:29

gonna like get really

1:54:32

weird when you can actually purchase a companion that interacts with you and

1:54:37

have you seen it jamie

1:54:38

you've seen the new one nope i'm looking at it right now let's see it's it's

1:54:42

weird man it's

1:54:43

weird because this is the thing that everyone's been afraid of and that that

1:54:47

this is coming right you're

1:54:49

going to have an artificial human being that instead of learning like oh when i

1:54:55

act shitty this person

1:54:57

doesn't like me when i act nice they like me i feel good they feel good when i

1:55:01

say something nice to

1:55:03

them and you see them light up it makes me feel good it makes them feel good it

1:55:07

you hug them everybody

1:55:08

feels good it's like we're learning to interact and communicating with each

1:55:12

other but there's a lot

1:55:13

of people that aren't doing that right now they're just at home they're playing

1:55:17

video games

1:55:18

they're interacting with people only online and they don't get contact with the

1:55:23

outside world so this

1:55:25

is yeah love ends the ai doll so like right now that doesn't look real it's not

1:55:34

more than your

1:55:35

average ai companion like basically but what they're not telling you is you're

1:55:41

gonna this thing

1:55:42

that's what's weird it's like look go back to the options co-worker jim crush

1:55:48

goth raver or trad wife

1:55:51

i'm the woman of your dreams i can be more than one version of myself for you

1:55:56

whether you want to

1:55:58

role play an exciting scenario or design a whole new personality your wish is

1:56:03

my command well you're

1:56:05

never gonna develop a real personality then like like kids now are so fucked

1:56:10

touch me like you mean it and

1:56:12

i'll respond with built-in sensors in my thighs breast butt and vagina feeling

1:56:18

your caress brings out a

1:56:20

moan like bro this is dark like that's the actual sex robot that thing you're

1:56:25

looking at right there

1:56:28

what my soft textured skin my supple curves the tiny sensual details of my body

1:56:35

everything about me is

1:56:36

meant to feel natural this is creepy man because all the things that are a part

1:56:42

of being a human being

1:56:43

that are designed to emphasize and enhance our interaction with each other and

1:56:51

this this mutually

1:56:52

beneficial cooperative environment of a community they're all gonna go away you're

1:56:57

gonna have this

1:56:58

thing that loves you no matter what and does whatever you want it to no matter

1:57:01

what and you're gonna

1:57:02

have like a whole nation of fucking sociopaths that only interact with their ai

1:57:07

companion yeah maybe

1:57:13

but whenever these like you know thinking about ai and i i read this great book

1:57:17

called the maniac by

1:57:19

benjamin lebatu to talk about jan newman and like it's i stopped fearing ai and

1:57:23

it's all about like

1:57:24

it's just like you know there's so much i don't know the older i get i don't

1:57:27

know anything i just keep

1:57:29

knowing less right and it feels like that's if that's the evolution that that's

1:57:33

the evolution there's so

1:57:34

much disparate communication now porn is such a huge thing it's just another

1:57:39

level of porn you know it's a

1:57:41

carnal level of porn really and but when i think about me as a human being that's

1:57:46

really the only

1:57:47

litmus test is like i'm constantly like is this person telling me what they

1:57:51

really think you know

1:57:53

is this real right i i think that they're at least for if i was doing that

1:57:58

right and i was sitting at

1:57:59

home there'd be a part of me that knows that i'm con again i'm controlling all

1:58:04

of that uh-huh

1:58:06

and that's not what really makes me feel serene you know what it's like do you

1:58:11

understand what i'm

1:58:11

saying it's like playing a video game on god mode where you can't die right

1:58:15

they're no fun and you

1:58:17

know what for some reason i never video games i had nintendo tecmo bowl you

1:58:22

know double dribble

1:58:23

but i never zelda you know but but i never got it i just never got into video

1:58:28

games i never want to

1:58:29

control everything it's like i want to be in the thing that's surprising and i'm

1:58:35

having to recalculate

1:58:37

and understand why i feel this way yeah so i i don't know if it'll i think i

1:58:44

think the thing that

1:58:45

maybe will change society more everything is just the lack of jobs and what how

1:58:48

we find purpose in life

1:58:50

you know is a huge that that you know what what that transition civilization

1:58:54

will be yeah but this

1:58:55

feels like just another progression of our escape through porn in terms of the

1:58:59

sexual which does

1:59:00

affect our intimacy with our partners in a massive way because your brain is

1:59:03

cycling back through your

1:59:05

what that that rush whatever was released in your brain from that other thing

1:59:09

now you're with this

1:59:10

person and it's not the same uh you know markers of stimuli so you're like how

1:59:15

am i right you know

1:59:16

that's where it fucks up the that's where that that i can understand that and

1:59:20

why it's not healthy for

1:59:21

me to look at porn because then i'm it affects my intimacy well they really say

1:59:25

that about young

1:59:25

people because a lot of young guys before they ever have any sexual interaction

1:59:29

or watching porn yeah i

1:59:31

mean yeah i mean i've watched these guys that have come on the studies yeah i

1:59:34

mean clear it makes sense

1:59:35

you know i didn't grow up looking at you know i didn't my dad didn't have playboy

1:59:38

i didn't grow up i

1:59:39

still remember there were like cards in the back of a bus that had uh you know

1:59:43

solicit you know naked

1:59:44

women on the back of playing cards i remember on the school bus one day i was

1:59:48

like i saw a car and

1:59:49

i picked it over and it was like a naked i was like what's that you know i didn't

1:59:53

see my first

1:59:53

like porn video till i was like in my late teens so i didn't grow up with any

1:59:58

of that yeah um but you

2:00:01

know it's it's it is what it is it's where we're headed but all the more reason

2:00:06

to create environments

2:00:07

like this right or and that's why i do love what i get to do like if i can

2:00:12

somehow

2:00:13

and explore something cinematically that i'm personally again that goes back to

2:00:19

like what's

2:00:19

yeah just i can't explain it it was will the thing i i i'm just going to

2:00:23

explore this if there's something

2:00:25

i feel like i want to do if i can explore it and be real maybe somebody's going

2:00:29

to attach to it like i

2:00:31

i'm a huge believer in art yeah you know i think art is you know in any form is

2:00:36

a key to our

2:00:37

communicative ability and like not feeling alone it really comes down to me at

2:00:41

least just not feeling

2:00:43

alone part of a community yeah that's it because me alone me alone and if i'm

2:00:48

controlling a robot

2:00:50

it's still me alone i guess that's what i'm saying want some part of my brain

2:00:54

even though it's i mean

2:00:55

even if you could create a world like virtual reality doesn't really do it for

2:00:59

me like the world's

2:01:01

created i'm like you know what i want to i want to live on mars and uh and you're

2:01:05

a dinosaur i'm

2:01:06

talking to and uh and we're married do you know what i mean and we you know

2:01:10

like whatever it is

2:01:12

it's like i still know i'm controlling it and it'll never really for me i don't

2:01:17

know if anybody else so

2:01:18

i don't know how i don't think it'll ever really solve it right i just don't it's

2:01:23

not gonna really

2:01:24

resonate i don't think so i don't it'll be escapism yeah which we do uh many

2:01:30

other things smoking weed

2:01:32

when he's young you know whatever it was for me you know or whatever it is not

2:01:36

that weeds that's a

2:01:37

communicative thing that actually but like anything that's escape it's just a

2:01:42

higher form of it well

2:01:43

it's a disconnect too it's that's what i mean it's a disconnect art is a

2:01:47

connect right it is

2:01:48

when when it works great a great art is an expression of someone's humanity

2:01:53

that you can

2:01:54

feel like this person did this thing or they're doing this thing right now and

2:01:57

i'm watching it like

2:01:59

wow like going to see live music for me oh well music is like our touch to god

2:02:03

no question yeah that's

2:02:05

why the first move i wanted to make it with music it's like music two people

2:02:07

singing to each other

2:02:08

they're in love that's that's it yeah because first of all the i'm sure you've

2:02:13

sang a little bit

2:02:14

if you're not loose it's going to sound fucking horrible yep like you we're

2:02:20

wind and string

2:02:20

instruments both right we're wind and then strings with our vocal cords like

2:02:24

and if that's not loose

2:02:25

the sound's going to be horrendous we're not going to be able to communicate

2:02:27

but if you're loose

2:02:29

and you're singing to somebody and they're singing back to you and you're in

2:02:32

love you're actually in

2:02:33

love whoa yeah wow that must be crazy for like uh like people that do a duet

2:02:39

that are in love with

2:02:41

each other and they're on stage like 16 000 people no i mean the little taste i

2:02:46

got during the stars

2:02:47

mark because we we jumped on real stages and sang live it was crazy dude crazy

2:02:54

we went to glastonbury

2:02:56

music festival 80 000 people chris kristofferson gave us four minutes of a set

2:03:01

me maddie libatique

2:03:02

the dp steve moore the sound guy i had my like costume in my bag i went to the

2:03:07

bathroom came back

2:03:08

out as jackson main and we had four minutes and saying i was like what the is

2:03:12

going on dude i mean

2:03:15

joe talk about you know it's crazy that's so wild and then doing it with lady gaga

2:03:22

who's actually

2:03:22

like my i made my bandwidth like this you know so i could pull it off and i

2:03:27

could believe it and then

2:03:28

i'm singing with her and the minute she opens her mouth it's like that thing

2:03:32

comes out yeah and

2:03:34

your whole body is tingling it's crazy yeah it's crazy yeah you can't replace

2:03:40

that with ai i don't

2:03:41

think so no no it's impossible it's impossible but you can get oddly close with

2:03:49

some music like and

2:03:51

everything like art too yeah you know you look at ai art it's incredible well

2:03:56

that spooks me out um

2:03:58

like how do you feel i mean this is one of the things that's really going to be

2:04:02

a giant problem for

2:04:03

movie making is you can create ai characters that are assembly they're like

2:04:12

they would they what

2:04:13

they've essentially done is take a conglomeration of all of the acting that's

2:04:19

ever been done and all

2:04:20

the range that anyone has ever shown and they can manipulate it make it more

2:04:26

morose yeah making

2:04:27

more using prompts of real people yeah we dealt with that with the sag strike

2:04:30

that was part of the

2:04:30

thing was this whole ai element right and like what where we landed it was what

2:04:35

was the thought from

2:04:36

the people from sag like what were they well just protecting our ability of our

2:04:40

ownership of our

2:04:41

likeness so that you can't use it without a compensation right you know because

2:04:45

they were doing that well i

2:04:46

mean i think to build these machines you have to prompt yeah you know um so

2:04:52

that and then you're prompting

2:04:54

using what's existing yeah um and then how do you how do you you know it's just

2:05:00

reframing how do you

2:05:01

allocate funds to someone when you're using a prompt that's based on the human

2:05:05

being who's an actor

2:05:07

and you know do you patent your likeness you know so we're just moving in it's

2:05:11

the wild west

2:05:12

yeah it's the wild west uncharted oh yeah yeah in every way you know like there's

2:05:18

podcasts that are ai

2:05:19

driven now you can watch a discussion and that would be a podcast i think glenn

2:05:23

beck just released the

2:05:24

first glenn beck completely ai podcast right i was like okay but does that

2:05:29

scare you no it doesn't

2:05:31

scare me either no it doesn't scare me with that with with podcasting because i

2:05:36

think one of the things

2:05:37

that people come to podcasting from is this desire to be like a dose of

2:05:43

humanity is how i describe it i

2:05:46

want real interaction between two real people and i feel it and i know it's

2:05:51

real and there's something

2:05:52

about that that gives me comfort when i'm driving my car or when i'm on a plane

2:05:56

you know like i i'm

2:05:57

listening to these two people interact and i'm thinking like how would i what

2:06:01

would i say what do i

2:06:02

think about this oh i get where he's going from okay oh wow that's his

2:06:06

perspective oh that's

2:06:07

interesting and then it makes me like rethink things or or think about things

2:06:12

with fresh eyes

2:06:13

i don't think you're going to be able to do that but also if i know it's ai if

2:06:16

you tell me yeah

2:06:17

i'm not going to trust anything it's saying anything in on that level yeah

2:06:21

because it's not

2:06:22

me i'm listening to right it's fascinating for a while and then it's like well

2:06:27

i kind of want to just

2:06:28

not feel alone right back to that well there's an emptiness to ai music i love

2:06:34

a lot of ai music

2:06:35

but there's an i love ai covers like they've done some ai no i've heard you

2:06:39

know the 50 cent ones oh

2:06:41

yeah bro how good i bought yeah yeah yeah how good is it yeah no it's sick it's

2:06:44

sick it's sick i was

2:06:45

like if that guy was alive it was a real person he'd be like one of the biggest

2:06:48

artists in the world

2:06:49

he's a dynamo yeah but there's an emptiness to it where you know like there's

2:06:54

no human there's no

2:06:55

humanity there's no soul there's no you might enjoy it in the moment but you

2:06:58

better have some real

2:06:59

too but the truth is i listen to that i don't know that there's no soul because

2:07:02

i'm not seeing the

2:07:03

person sing it right you know and so much music is manipulated anyway the voice

2:07:07

whether it goes

2:07:08

through the system and you know but if i'm watching a human being that's why

2:07:11

people love to go watch

2:07:12

people perform live yeah you know i don't know that guy that you know that ai

2:07:16

thing the 50 cent is

2:07:17

if you told me that was a guy i'd be like i can't wait to see him i would have

2:07:20

no idea that's not a

2:07:21

guy we play it in the green room when no one's no i know yeah and they're like

2:07:24

who is this guy yeah

2:07:26

it's not a person but of course how would you know but everybody has the same

2:07:28

reaction like oh no

2:07:30

right right that's not the reaction yeah it's like i don't know what's wrong

2:07:35

with me but i don't feel

2:07:36

that i'm like cool yeah i don't know but we've been through things before you

2:07:40

know i think this is a

2:07:41

bigger one though no no it is but relatively speaking it's probably not and

2:07:46

contextually

2:07:48

right you know the printing press you know all that airplanes here we go yeah

2:07:54

cell phones yeah

2:07:55

ai music yeah and and ai film i mean they're there you can produce a full

2:08:02

feature film with prompts

2:08:04

now yeah which is just nuts have you seen any of the uh ai star wars clips yeah

2:08:11

and made yeah yeah

2:08:12

it's nuts yeah a couple buddies that did some stuff that was fascinating yeah

2:08:17

it's cool i yeah i don't

2:08:19

it's like if the ocean's flowing what are you gonna i mean it's gonna happen

2:08:27

yeah i mean you

2:08:27

build the dam okay it's john henry dude it's john henry in the steam engine i

2:08:31

always think about

2:08:32

that song when i was a kid they must have played on pbs you know it's like

2:08:35

steam engine's coming bro

2:08:36

yeah it's like you know you may be able to lay the track one guy could but then

2:08:40

he died

2:08:40

you know it's it's it is what it is and once i sort of give myself over to it

2:08:46

you know i don't know

2:08:48

what it feels like for me personally it's a waste of time to be emotionally uh

2:08:52

upended by it i agree

2:08:54

with that that's all i think that's a healthy perspective because i think it is

2:08:58

inevitable but it is

2:08:59

also and the truth is we don't know what's inevitable we know something's

2:09:02

inevitable

2:09:03

there's a movement but no one knows we just don't know we may not be around by

2:09:06

the time it happens

2:09:07

anyway meaning like who there's we just don't know anything right that's the

2:09:11

truth and that's what's

2:09:12

so terrifying that's why we want to escape yeah at least me by the way i'm

2:09:16

saying all this generally

2:09:17

but that's i go back to like what do i feel it's like okay so how can i you

2:09:22

know this is totally out of

2:09:24

my control so why am i terrified just breathe through it okay it'll be an

2:09:28

adjustment because

2:09:29

the other thing i think people change i don't know what you think people do

2:09:32

change

2:09:32

in life like i just think we change like i'm not the same person i was five

2:09:38

years ago of course you

2:09:40

know some people don't think that you know that like you're always the same

2:09:43

like i don't think that

2:09:44

those people are silly yeah i really people people change they change by the

2:09:49

minute yeah but i mean like

2:09:51

major changes yeah you know and i do you ever think back in your life and you're

2:09:55

like i've lived so

2:09:56

many lives yeah like it's crazy if you live a good life i think that's the case

2:10:01

yeah yeah yeah you

2:10:03

you're gonna change and if you don't like how why not yeah maybe if you don't

2:10:09

live so many lives yeah

2:10:11

did you just nail it when you were 21 and ride that boat right into the rocks

2:10:15

no because everything

2:10:16

else is changing yeah yeah yeah you have to change but it's just this change is

2:10:21

a strange change because

2:10:22

we're essentially creating an artificial life form that it can interact with us

2:10:27

in right now in a way

2:10:30

that you can manipulate like this ai sex bot but eventually it's going to

2:10:35

interact with you

2:10:36

and you're not going to be able to manipulate it it's going to be a life form

2:10:42

yeah that's going to be

2:10:43

something yeah the entertainment aspect of it is just a side effect the the

2:10:47

real i don't even think

2:10:48

the entertainment yeah that's not even the thing the thing is life's going to

2:10:51

change that's what i

2:10:52

feel like too it's like oh the storytelling and like i don't think that's our

2:10:56

biggest concern the

2:10:58

storytelling thing is going to be weird but like that's that we're talking

2:11:01

about it like a minute to

2:11:03

minute life existence change right most most probably it's essentially going to

2:11:09

be a life form and you

2:11:11

know there's a a lot of technologists that are looking at it and they're saying

2:11:16

this is should be

2:11:17

studied by biologists and not by people that are involved in technology right

2:11:22

because this is kind of a

2:11:24

life form it's just a life form fascinating isn't human beings what we do oh

2:11:28

yeah it's like isn't mark

2:11:29

zuckerberg building the size of manhattan for a place to be able to create and

2:11:33

generate a computer

2:11:35

for an ai you know like the amount of energy that we're you know every you know

2:11:38

it's just fascinating

2:11:40

human beings well they need their own nuclear power yeah it's just but isn't it

2:11:43

fascinating just

2:11:44

ardent like yeah and then if you have an enemy there's competition right right

2:11:49

yeah and if you better

2:11:50

create one so that you could be motivated it's really interesting i just you

2:11:56

ever stop and think

2:11:58

like what does 50 years from now look like oh it's you know i think about again

2:12:02

with kids my daughter

2:12:04

and i we walk through because i live in new york we walk we talk about it all

2:12:06

the time like what's

2:12:07

going to be here when you're my age it's like what do you think you know we

2:12:10

talk about it all the time

2:12:11

but whether she even needs to get a driver's license you know she's eight you

2:12:13

know it's really

2:12:14

fascinating right like our way most when i was eight as opposed to now when i

2:12:19

was eight i mean

2:12:21

i remember having a beeper you know and i thought that was like crazy

2:12:25

yeah yeah and a star tack phone yeah i was like whoa i got one when i moved to

2:12:31

la oh man i remember

2:12:32

that stuff in the future i could any excuse to yeah pull up the antenna yeah

2:12:38

motorola yes dude i got

2:12:39

the extended battery oh yeah yeah i can call people whenever i want yeah yeah i

2:12:46

remember when blackberry

2:12:47

died and iphone i was one of the last people i kept that blackberry i kept the

2:12:50

blackberry deep into

2:12:52

the game me too i needed that keyboard i was like i don't this is not going to

2:12:55

work right yeah my thumbs

2:12:57

are too big now i hardly ever even actually type i'm well i do when i write but

2:13:01

when i talk to people

2:13:03

i just talk text you do i do not do that yeah it's so good yeah it's so much

2:13:07

quicker than yeah i should do

2:13:09

that fat i always have a hard time turning it on and then knowing it's not a

2:13:12

voice memo or the thing

2:13:13

i gotta i gotta look at it you know i'm talking about just slide go up yeah it's

2:13:18

uh the embracing of

2:13:21

it is inevitable but it's like where is it going and what is it going to lead

2:13:25

us to and how many

2:13:26

different jobs are just going to vanish that's what's really scary like giving

2:13:30

people purpose and

2:13:31

meaning because so many people their purpose and meaning is their occupation

2:13:35

and if your occupation is

2:13:37

completely irrelevant it just doesn't work anymore it's like you know again i

2:13:41

think back to me and

2:13:42

my upbringing my grandfather who was a b cop for 35 years i don't think you

2:13:47

would say his purpose was

2:13:49

that you know i think his purpose was his family and my purpose is my purpose

2:13:54

is my family and it's not

2:13:56

my job even though i get to do something i absolutely love i don't know that

2:14:00

people's purpose

2:14:02

innately is their job you know i think it's a i do think for me at least i just

2:14:09

like you know

2:14:09

god's in all of us it's like whatever you want to say of god like the need to

2:14:14

communicate to create

2:14:16

experiences that we don't feel alone because it's terrifying being on this

2:14:21

little thing who knows

2:14:23

where we are and then we're gone yeah i mean it's a horror movie yeah so what

2:14:29

do we get we got to band

2:14:30

together and communicate well i've thought about that too when people say you

2:14:34

know the jobs are going to

2:14:35

go away and we're going to have universal basic income and the problem is then

2:14:38

you'll no one will have

2:14:39

any motivation and a lot of people lost without meaning like but why why

2:14:45

because when when did

2:14:48

working even become your purpose in life like this is a it's a means to an end

2:14:55

to provide you know but

2:14:57

it's a construct it doesn't it's the not the only way human beings can live i

2:15:01

and if we've learned

2:15:02

anything about ourselves as a human species we can adapt yes yeah you know

2:15:08

highly able to adapt

2:15:09

right but what does that adaptation look like and how do you educate people to

2:15:15

not just seek a safe

2:15:17

job that's going to provide for your family but instead seek a purpose seek a

2:15:23

thing that gives you

2:15:24

fulfillment a thing where you feel like you're contributing to the world or or

2:15:28

like maybe it'll

2:15:30

lead to an explosion of human created art because i think one of the things

2:15:33

that's going to happen for

2:15:35

sure is people are going to really greatly appreciate things that other human

2:15:39

beings have made because

2:15:41

like you got to go oh well this is real but this is handmade this is made by a

2:15:45

guy in wisconsin you know

2:15:46

he's got a shop you can watch his shop on youtube it's all huge yeah we just

2:15:51

got to get more people to

2:15:54

embrace that kind of life like giving them purpose in creation and i think most

2:15:59

people are creative it's just

2:16:02

that creativity is probably like pushed out of you when you sort of conform to

2:16:08

society's ideas of what

2:16:10

you're supposed to be doing with your life or you feel like you're told in a

2:16:13

competitive environment

2:16:14

that you're not creative right you know if you're not if you're not helped

2:16:18

along the way in those

2:16:19

developing years by at least somebody right it could be knocked out of you yes

2:16:24

no question i mean i even

2:16:26

look back and think of like a couple of people that believed in me and i'm like

2:16:30

yeah without that i don't

2:16:31

know oh yeah even with how much i love it yeah yeah um i think you know

2:16:37

children are almost all creative

2:16:41

they're always playing and around with dolls and around with legos and they're

2:16:46

moving

2:16:46

things around and they're using their mind to they're drawing they're doing

2:16:52

stuff that's creative

2:16:54

it's just after a while that part of their life just kind of goes away and atrophies

2:16:59

and then they

2:17:00

embrace the grind and so so it could it could lead to some sort of burst in

2:17:04

that yeah i yeah the hard

2:17:06

part is going to be people that are already set in their ways and when their

2:17:09

job just goes away when

2:17:11

when it just becomes irrelevant and that's about governing yeah and what do we

2:17:14

do yeah no it's the

2:17:16

government's terrible at everything they're not getting people to be creative

2:17:19

or just like how do we deal

2:17:21

with it you know any transition can be various states of volatility what do you

2:17:25

think movie making is

2:17:27

going to be like i mean how much of a play is ai going to have in filmmaking i

2:17:33

mean it already has a

2:17:34

play you know in it you know in terms of what certain houses use you know

2:17:38

whether it's writing or special

2:17:40

effects or i don't even know how much ai is used you know i'm sure it is i'm

2:17:43

sure it's used at every

2:17:44

level just like in every other aspect of uh the workforce um but i no one i don't

2:17:51

know you know i

2:17:52

don't know all i know is like um again telling stories where you don't that you

2:17:59

feel like you

2:18:00

can relate to it no matter how and that what's wonderful is you know i'm

2:18:03

watching avatar like i

2:18:05

saw a movie the other night that i didn't believe anybody in it you know and if

2:18:09

i'm not believing i

2:18:11

just i can't i can't stay awake yeah you know yeah and i just i love avatar i

2:18:15

love you know and i love

2:18:16

sci-fi stuff i love and i and leah and we were watching uh because we watched

2:18:21

three then two and

2:18:22

we were watching one so in bed we were watching one parts of one and i was like

2:18:26

i just gone from

2:18:27

watching this movie they're like i didn't believe anything anybody was doing

2:18:31

the whole time so i was

2:18:32

out of it and then i'm like watching avatar for two seconds two people yeah

2:18:35

they're on a thing and

2:18:36

they're blue but they're talking to each other right right i don't know i think

2:18:40

whatever they're

2:18:40

doing they're talking to each other yeah so avatar was fascinating because of

2:18:45

avatar depression you

2:18:46

know about avatar depression no there were so many people that loved avatar so

2:18:51

much and connected

2:18:53

with the idea of living on pandora yeah being in that world and being the navi

2:18:58

that they wished

2:18:59

that they were there i get it so they were developing avatar depression it was

2:19:03

like they were talking

2:19:05

about it like it was a psychological condition that people were affected by

2:19:09

that's how good that movie

2:19:10

was yeah it gave people depression first of all there's something wearing a

2:19:13

giant blue person the

2:19:15

color blue that alone you know and the color of blue that james cameron landed

2:19:20

on just what do you

2:19:21

think that is i don't know but that blue is pretty wonderful do you think it's

2:19:24

the ocean when the sun

2:19:25

hits it it feels like you know the caribbean or something right yeah exactly

2:19:30

like white sand and

2:19:32

an overhead light yeah through water yeah that is weird that yeah because if

2:19:36

they were red by the

2:19:37

way i'm like when's four and five come on right right i haven't seen three yet

2:19:41

is it great i loved

2:19:42

it i loved one and two yeah i love those movies me too yeah there's a great

2:19:48

ride at uh disney i heard

2:19:49

about it in orlando right yeah i can't wait to go yeah are you on the yeah it's

2:19:55

a vr ride you put a helmet

2:19:57

on and you sit on this thing that looks like a like a motorcycle oh my god and

2:20:00

then all of a sudden

2:20:01

like you feel wind it's got like like physical elements to it smells and mist

2:20:06

you're flying on

2:20:07

one of those dragon things and you're flying around and dorm it's incredible

2:20:11

but that movie was so

2:20:13

impactful that people got depressed that they weren't living there yeah i get

2:20:19

it yeah i mean i think it

2:20:20

happens all the time they just have a term term for it now yeah but i'm sure it

2:20:23

happened with star wars

2:20:25

dancing with wolves yeah oh really yeah i mean how many people wanted to be a

2:20:28

native american and

2:20:29

live with the native americans because they saw kevin costner do it like oh

2:20:33

this is better

2:20:34

this is better than living in the town with all those assholes going to the saloon

2:20:39

yeah there's

2:20:41

something about that you know there's something about like living in harmony

2:20:46

that appeals to people

2:20:48

you know and i think that has always been the appeal of you know there's a lot

2:20:52

of people

2:20:53

that were kidnapped when they were young by native american tribes like there's

2:20:58

a photo outside in

2:20:59

the lobby i don't know if you saw it of um kwana parker he's the last uh of the

2:21:05

comanche chiefs

2:21:07

and there's a lot of like uh city uh city uh streets and areas all around austin

2:21:13

that are named after

2:21:15

comanche there's like kwana parker lane and all these things and his mom was cynthia

2:21:21

ann parker

2:21:22

she was kidnapped by the comanche which she was nine they killed her family um

2:21:26

wiped out her whole

2:21:27

family in oklahoma it's it's documented in the book empire of the summer moon

2:21:31

it's incredible book

2:21:32

uh that all talks about the the the conquering of texas and the the comanche

2:21:37

fighting the texas

2:21:38

rangers but this woman was kidnapped when she was nine married the comanche

2:21:44

chief and her son was

2:21:46

kwana parker so her son was half colonizer half native half comanche and he

2:21:53

became the last comanche

2:21:55

chief and this lady they rescued her when she was 30 and she kept trying to

2:22:01

escape she wanted to go back

2:22:02

right like no one ever like went to the native americans and then wanted to go

2:22:09

back to regular

2:22:10

western life they all wanted to stay with the native americans they all they

2:22:15

loved that life there's

2:22:17

something about this ancient way of living subsistence hunting living on the

2:22:23

land that was just

2:22:25

talked about on your show on the show about the need to go out in nature oh

2:22:29

yeah i couldn't agree more

2:22:32

i mean it's like oh right you know it's very important i think it's a vitamin

2:22:37

no question yeah

2:22:39

yeah native american and also like you think about i mean yeah i'm a fan of all

2:22:43

that there's this guy

2:22:44

great writer m scott momaday and sherman alexi you know just writing about it's

2:22:48

pretty yeah it's

2:22:49

fascinating yeah but people that were that went and lived with the native americans

2:22:57

never wanted to go

2:22:58

back to the west but people that but that lived in a native american life and

2:23:04

then move to the west they

2:23:05

always wanted to go back like it's net it never went the other way and it was

2:23:09

but somehow or another

2:23:11

the way of the western people the way the settlers won out by like sheer volume

2:23:16

and numbers and this

2:23:18

technology progress yeah technology yeah i mean that was the reason why they

2:23:24

were able to pull it off in

2:23:25

the first place was the cult revolver because without the revolver they all had

2:23:30

muskets and the comanche

2:23:31

had like five six arrows and they would run at them and no gibson movie

2:23:34

remember the end of the mel gibson

2:23:36

movie which movie um yeah apocalypto yeah oh yeah yeah he finally escapes you

2:23:40

and he gets to the beach

2:23:42

and then the boats are coming yeah yeah just watch them go through the whole

2:23:47

thing uh-huh you're like

2:23:48

the muskets coming yeah the musket and then the rifle yeah and then sorry yeah

2:23:54

yeah yeah like yeah

2:23:55

but it was just steel you know that was the crazy thing about the aztecs and

2:24:00

cortez is just they had

2:24:01

steel armor and you know they were riding horses and everybody's like these

2:24:05

guys are gods like this is

2:24:07

crazy they have metal and that's all it took 13 muskets 13 muskets 600 men yeah

2:24:15

conquered mexico

2:24:16

it's just it's it's it's it's weird the way progress moves it's really because

2:24:27

i mean you can call it

2:24:28

progress but is it even better what is progress it's like technological

2:24:32

innovation and adaptation to it i

2:24:35

don't know if it's progress it all feels very overwhelming and i think that's

2:24:38

where

2:24:39

the downside of our ability to have so much access to information or me have so

2:24:44

much access to

2:24:45

information is that it starts to take my breath away and then that's why it's

2:24:50

like what's just

2:24:51

simple well that's why it's smart that you're not on social media right yeah

2:24:55

because that's the that's

2:24:57

the main tap into the overwhelming but i still feel overwhelmed you know even

2:25:01

though i'm not on social

2:25:02

media you know whatever my news feed is you know what i mean what i can

2:25:06

actively look up and listen

2:25:07

to is still you know a hundred times x is when i was a teenager oh yeah you

2:25:12

know the fact that i even

2:25:13

have a phone to do it right you know so i even feel that but you're right i can't

2:25:18

even imagine what

2:25:19

social media does it does a lot and it does a really does a lot for young

2:25:23

people they're they're just

2:25:26

being wired in a way that no human being has ever been wired before like just

2:25:30

their whole that all of

2:25:33

their interactions are different than anybody that's ever lived yeah which is

2:25:37

so strange it's like because

2:25:39

there's been minor changes over time that have led to like just the invention

2:25:44

of cable right

2:25:45

just that that changed everything that changed it for me i probably wouldn't

2:25:50

have wanted to do this

2:25:51

i mean there was a movie theater across my backyard was train tracks in the

2:25:55

movie theater i loved it

2:25:56

watched stand by me a hundred times would walk and pretend that i was there but

2:26:00

then like comcast came

2:26:01

through and prism and hbo and all of a sudden i can watch taxi driver 14 times

2:26:07

and the elephant man and

2:26:10

popeye and apocalypse now and raging bull like you know yeah from from 12 to on

2:26:16

that i would never

2:26:18

have had it was like platoon for six months yentl you know what i mean it's

2:26:22

like there was one one choice

2:26:23

so yeah it's interesting well it's weird too now that you have instantaneous

2:26:30

access like now it's not

2:26:31

even oh apocalypse now is on at eight o'clock i mean we just pulled up the clip

2:26:35

that i was talking about

2:26:36

which is instantly in the middle of a conversation which is wonderful yeah yeah

2:26:41

it's great if it

2:26:41

doesn't overwhelm you yeah if you use it and it doesn't use you yeah but the

2:26:46

problem is i feel like

2:26:47

that with me i feel like that with so many things don't you it's like yeah yeah

2:26:50

that's why i love books

2:26:51

still i still love books it's like a physical yeah i do i love books yeah i don't

2:26:57

necessarily read books

2:26:59

very often most of my interaction with literature is just audio yeah just

2:27:04

because of a time thing right

2:27:06

for me my time is just it's too difficult for me to manage i have a hard time

2:27:11

staying with audio books

2:27:13

yeah retaining it i start thinking about the rhythm of the voice and the my

2:27:20

brain goes to other things

2:27:21

like who's the person talking you know where are they sitting i don't know like

2:27:25

it changes well that's

2:27:26

probably why you're a great actor yeah maybe i mean it has to have something to

2:27:30

do with it because

2:27:30

you're in this you're considering this as a human being absorbing yeah their

2:27:35

humanity right while

2:27:36

they're where this is like words and like unlocks my imagination yeah it's like

2:27:41

i'm here and it's

2:27:41

like i don't know what's going to come right the words are in your head the

2:27:44

voices are in your head

2:27:45

yes yeah and you don't necessarily have to assign a sound to them yeah they

2:27:51

take on and they change

2:27:52

and they morph and you don't know what's going to happen what's probably a real

2:27:55

value to that just in

2:27:57

terms of the enhancement of your own intellect just to constantly be doing that

2:28:03

and as you're reading

2:28:04

this being engrossed and absorbed in this person's writing and then like being

2:28:10

taken on this journey

2:28:12

yes where you're you know it's like stimulating all these parts yeah i was just

2:28:16

on the track

2:28:17

in rome in the olympics you know what i mean and the guy was just coming and

2:28:20

taking you know wearing

2:28:21

two sweatshirts to like intimidate you know like yeah it's amazing yeah it's uh

2:28:27

but it it the good the

2:28:29

thing that's maybe changing is like it does ask a lot of the reader or the

2:28:33

viewer to use to come

2:28:34

at it with their imagination yes and then there's something about you're taking

2:28:39

all that away and

2:28:40

you're just receiving that'll be in it's very new yeah and then yeah that's a

2:28:45

huge change there's not

2:28:48

so much communication going on it's just receiving but there's all those the

2:28:51

mastery of like that guy

2:28:53

doing lord of the rings and like the the taking in what he's doing you know

2:28:58

yeah then realize this one

2:29:00

fucking person is doing all these different voices that's crazy yeah but it's

2:29:05

you have more access now

2:29:08

to other people's creations than ever before like you can be absorbed in other

2:29:12

people's work all the

2:29:13

time now yes instantaneously on your phone i'm sitting here i'm bored let me

2:29:18

just get someone's

2:29:19

creation and plug it into my head or somebody's thoughts on something or

2:29:23

research they've done

2:29:24

yeah that's what's amazing oh yeah that's what's and that's what i've learned

2:29:27

on your show too just

2:29:29

every you know that just that that i didn't no one had access like to that or

2:29:33

or it was frowned upon

2:29:34

right or like well you're not smart if you talk about this right you know it's

2:29:38

like let everybody decide

2:29:40

right and the truth is we don't know anything no well there's a lot of gatekeepers

2:29:44

when it comes to what

2:29:45

you should or should not be interested in yeah or should i remember i remember

2:29:50

being in college

2:29:51

and there was a student african-american student who i really i was friends

2:29:55

with and i remember him

2:29:55

saying like man the one course he's like it's just not they're not telling the

2:30:00

story and i remember

2:30:01

and he went and he talked this is in 1995 or four wait and i graduated in 97

2:30:07

from college yeah so like

2:30:08

yeah four i think i was a sophomore and like he was just what he was talking

2:30:12

about was like other other

2:30:14

ways of looking at history and like can't we just look at other stuff and it's

2:30:19

fascinating you know

2:30:21

now it's like there's whole you know courses on it or sections that you can

2:30:25

read and learn and hear

2:30:27

what people you know that's kind of amazing yeah it definitely is i think it's

2:30:32

amazing as long as you

2:30:34

could be you know like you not strict but as long as you can be um you know

2:30:41

what's the word you know

2:30:43

that you're like okay i'm looking at it this is not um you know the bible of

2:30:49

what it is but let me just

2:30:50

hear this take uh-huh you know that's only healthy i think 100 you know the

2:30:56

problem and the fear is

2:30:57

like oh no you're going to get and then the cults and the group and the thing

2:31:00

and all of a sudden

2:31:01

there's a movement and you know but whenever that happens anyway there's so

2:31:04

much infighting and the

2:31:05

thing gets diluted anyway like it's there's no it's never going to work right

2:31:10

that's the thing about

2:31:11

the bible itself is the bible is a series of stories that were an oral

2:31:17

tradition for who knows how

2:31:19

many years of course eventually wrote it down then they translated it from dead

2:31:24

languages

2:31:24

and eventually to english you know like what is this like what what was the

2:31:28

original what what is

2:31:29

the meaning of this like what and you don't even have to go back that that far

2:31:33

it's like just how we

2:31:34

take it you know label you know all the all they are labels of words language

2:31:39

you and i communicate

2:31:40

using these system of symbols vocal symbols that we both think mean something

2:31:45

yeah but when i say

2:31:46

protein bites it's like you're looking at that differently than i am that so it's

2:31:50

so impossible

2:31:51

anyway we're just desperately trying to communicate yes that's all we're doing

2:31:56

yeah desperately and have

2:31:58

a story like what's our story what's our story that's going to be the weirdest

2:32:01

aspect of communication

2:32:03

through technology is that we're going to get to a point where we're

2:32:05

communicating without words

2:32:07

that's going to get really weird telepathy that to me is scary because i don't

2:32:12

trust my thoughts

2:32:13

do you know what i mean like if i've learned anything as i've gotten older it's

2:32:16

like oh yeah

2:32:17

let that wash through me i don't have to judge myself for that that was crazy

2:32:20

right whoa right no

2:32:22

no it's okay let it wash through judge me by my actions yeah yeah i do believe

2:32:26

not by what's going

2:32:27

on inside my head yeah yeah yeah but and then managing the thoughts and

2:32:32

deciding what to act on

2:32:34

and what not to and imagine like trying to consciously control your thought i

2:32:38

mean all of a sudden talk

2:32:39

about control trying to control well i think it's going to be a completely

2:32:43

different way of interacting

2:32:44

with each other that's going to be as crazy as internet communication and what

2:32:51

we're dealing with now

2:32:53

that's going to be another level of crazy because we're essentially going to be

2:32:58

telepathic

2:32:58

and that's inevitable that's that's in the world i mean elon said that to me

2:33:04

because you're going to

2:33:04

be able to communicate with no words like okay what does that mean yeah what is

2:33:10

that like what language

2:33:11

is it going to be in is it going to be in a new it's kind of exciting it's very

2:33:14

exciting yeah it's

2:33:16

well it's very weird yeah it's both we're going to be different yeah i just

2:33:19

hope i'm around to experience

2:33:21

it you will be yeah yeah it's going to happen fairly quickly i think it's going

2:33:25

to happen within the

2:33:26

next couple decades the things are going to be unrecognizable oh i if less than

2:33:32

that yeah i mean

2:33:34

that's just being like really charitable yeah that is it's probably going to be

2:33:38

five years yeah i mean

2:33:39

you've talked to enough people that are on the front lines of it and there

2:33:42

there is one sort of

2:33:44

constant thing that it's sooner than you think and everyone on the front line

2:33:48

is

2:33:48

fucking terrifying i know all of them i know all even the ones that are working

2:33:52

towards it i know

2:33:53

they're all like that's true like i don't know if this is good but we're doing

2:33:56

it yeah i know yeah

2:33:58

i know strange stuff yeah hey man i'm glad we did this this is a lot of fun joe

2:34:05

you know it's

2:34:06

real quick i just it's just fun to see the progression of it it's like i'm here

2:34:09

and then

2:34:10

like the elephant man by the end of it i just see your eyes talking to me it's

2:34:14

like i forgot the room and

2:34:15

jamie and the whole thing it's i understand the gift i get it well it's because

2:34:19

we're locked in

2:34:20

yeah but i get it i say i get it because i have a you know i love watching you

2:34:24

have guests on and then

2:34:25

through the time you just start to see things just start to shed off or it gets

2:34:31

more more awkward

2:34:33

or like the rhythm gets off and it's just so fascinating and so i'm i was so uh

2:34:38

honored to be able to

2:34:40

be in like you know the seat and experience it oh it's my pleasure yeah i'm

2:34:44

honored to be able

2:34:45

to talk to people like you yeah and to be able to experience you know you as

2:34:50

you're talking i'm

2:34:51

experiencing life through your eyes yeah i'm getting a better sense of what it

2:34:55

is to be a person and it's

2:34:57

just like these little thin layers like you're building a mountain with one

2:35:00

layer of paint at a

2:35:01

time that's it yeah everything is that everything is that yeah everything is

2:35:06

that yeah if if you're

2:35:08

living a good life yeah yeah and i think you're definitely living a good life

2:35:12

oh thanks man

2:35:13

it's been a pleasure getting to know you man you're cool as yeah thanks joe my

2:35:17

pleasure

2:35:18

all right um everybody uh is this thing on is out now right yeah it opens wide

2:35:23

tomorrow tomorrow

2:35:24

today today today as this podcast comes out correct yeah and uh go check it out

2:35:28

it's awesome

2:35:29

thanks man Bradley you're the man thank you all right bye everybody