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Michael P. Masters, PhD, is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University and the author of several books exploring the hypothesis that alien visitors may be human time travelers from the future. The most recent titles are "The Extratempestrial Model," a work of nonfiction, and the novel "Revelation: The Future Human Past." www.idflyobj.com/books-%26-merch www.youtube.com/@MichaelPMasters www.idflyobj.com
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David S. Lifton, Best Evidence
Dr. Michael P. Masters, Marshmallow and the UFO: A Time-Travel Adventure
Dr. Michael P. Masters, Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon
Dr. Michael P. Masters, The Extratempestrial Model
Dr. Michael P. Masters, Revelation: The Future Human Past
Enoch, The Book of Enoch
J. Allen Hynek, The UFO Experience: Evidence Behind Close Encounters, Project Blue Book, and the Search for Answers
John E. Mack, Passport to the Cosmos
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2 months ago
the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day
yeah disclosure day very interesting yeah i'm excited for that yeah he was
always like way
ahead of the curve when it comes to the whole uap ufo stuff you know with close
encounters at the
third kind he had that french scientist that was essentially modeled after jaque
filet yeah he's
always been i would love to talk to him i wonder how much he knows is that an
accident was he uh
fed some information was he a part of disclosure the whole time that's what i've
always wondered
i mean what does that mean right because there hasn't really been disclosure no
but it has to
be a slow process too right you think so i don't think i mean the whole idea is
that they're just
sort of normalizing it right uh neuro-linguistic programming they call it where
you're slowly
getting people accustomed to these ideas like the the aspects of close
encounters for instance where
you have the radiation burns on the guy's face you have a time travel component
where these uh world
war ii soldiers get out of the craft with the little beans and the bigger bean
and
i mean i just just seeding seeding our culture with those little bits of
information that might
help later on that was like in the 70s wasn't it like when was close encounters
uh yeah i think it was
the 70s late 70s early 80s maybe uh either way i mean like a lot of stuff he's
done like i re-watched the
god what was it jeff bridges starman i think there's a lot of elements of
disclosure in that too
like i think there's just i don't know i mean obviously we don't know who's
pulling the strings
we don't know what's going on we don't know who's in charge but it does make
sense that if
there is this thing that they know about that we're supposed to know about leak
it out do it
slowly get in our culture get it in our our media in different ways you know
the hal put off story
right with george bush do you know the story where they were talking about okay
hal talked about it on
my podcast but he also talked about it in the age of disclosure documentary
where they brought in him
and a bunch of different prominent thinkers yeah i watched that episode and i
watched um the doco so
to people that don't know i'll just explain it so they brought in him and a
bunch of other prominent
thinkers and they had they sat them down said essentially we have recovered
crashed ufos we
have biological remains of these creatures uh we are considering releasing it
to the public and we
want to make an assessment of what are the pros and what are the cons so we
want to assign a numerical
value that you know you're estimating what kind of an impact it would be on
government finances
religion etc about whether they should do it right whether or not they should
release this information
and all of the people that were brought in came to the agreement that there was
more con than there
were pro and that formed their decision to not release it and didn't say at
first like he was pro
disclosure he was like of course we should do this and then after the
conversation he switched teams
and yeah i don't know about that maybe perhaps i mean he said that he he went
into it thinking well
yeah obviously we should do this and then sort of was convinced otherwise after
the conversation
unfolded yeah how could you be convinced like whose decision should it be if
some people know
everyone should know yeah it's a humanity decision it's i don't think it should
be it is anybody's
in anybody's hands no to decide whether or not this information gets
distributed and the implications
too if they have zero point energy like how would that solve the problems that
we face today there's
so many ramifications of it that yeah whose decision is it and why has it been
kept from us i i don't i
don't buy that whole like orson wells 1938 everybody freak out bullshit i don't
i don't think that's the
case at least not anymore there's got to be something more to it than that it
would certainly
have i don't know if they factor this in but a uniting element like you
remember the reagan speech
we gave in front of the united nations where he said imagine how united we
would be we forget our
differences if we were faced with an alien threat from another world i mean
just knowing that we are
all united i mean we how old are you uh 47 okay so you remember september 11th
one of one of the things
that happened after september 11th was there was it was a horrible tragedy but
there was a beautiful
result temporarily where everybody was really united like really united like
there's american flags and
everybody's car in los angeles you know like the most ridiculous progressive
sort of kind of you know
kind of fucked up place but everybody became patriotic and in new york everyone
was friendly i mean
people were smiling and saying hi to each other on the streets we had all
decided that we were together
and that we were faced with a real threat and that we had to be united and i
remember it well yeah
you're right and then not to get too weird too fast here but if there are
aspects of sort of an all
encompassing consciousness that unites us associated with the ufo phenomenon
too if we recognize that we are
just fingerprints on the same hand we're all iterations of the same overarching
consciousness
if seemingly there is a part of that in the ufo phenomenon yeah so how would
that unite us as well
even beyond the threat from outside like if we did start to understand that we're
all part of the same
sort of cosmic community um sounds kind of weird to say that it does sound
weird but
have you seen the apple show pluribus
no it comes up a lot worth watching it's really good yeah it's really good it's
very
very original very unique but that is essentially what happens and it has a
negative
aspect to it there's a virus i don't want to give away too much of it for
people that
want to watch the show because it's a really good show but there's a virus that
they get a signal from another world and they figure out what this signal is
and
through this lab work they reveal that this signal is some sort of the encoding
of a specific virus
they work on this specific virus it spreads and the entire planet becomes one
consciousness
except for a small number of people interesting it's a weird show it's a really
good show
i'm gonna i don't want to explain any more of it like that without any spoiler
alerts but it's
fucking great but it's strange it's like wouldn't that be better there's no
crime there's no this
there's no that but then it reveals all the problems that come along yeah i'm
gonna have
to watch that as a counterpoint if anything else because it it makes sense to
me that if
everyone's kind of united as one yeah uh super organism of sorts but but you
lose all
individuality yeah you lose all the fun parts about being an imperfect person
right because we are an imperfect species but that's also what makes great art
that's what makes great
music it's what makes great fun most creative people have the most drama in
their past from what i've seen
and if you have zero trauma you probably have sucky art
it's just stick figures and shit i mean i wonder why would be if they would
even have a need for it
no because it's expression it's getting your angry out right or your angst or
your anxiety or depression
whatever it is you're getting something out i was telling my son that the other
day obvious his name
he's you know it's hard being in these bodies especially going through puberty
you know you're just like
what is this thing i'm carrying this little meat suit you know and and i was
like man i was the same way
i still am the same way and i picked up instruments i started painting i
learned to play every sport i could
physically play like there's ways to get that out you know but it seems like a
lot of that does come from
just the anxiety and the angst and you know you're growing into yourself you're
starting to get the
feels you know you look at women differently and it's like what do i do with
this well it rechanges
it rewires the entire way you view the world and meanwhile your body is
physically changing and
growing and like what am i gonna look like eventually this is weird it's so
weird you know there's actually
this uh in a small island in the pacific they have this weird um characteristic
where they start out
as females everybody does we all start out as females in utero and then maleness
is imposed on the
developing fetus but they they don't until puberty because they're not
sensitive to dihydrotestosterone
the precursor to testosterone so they grow up their entire life as girls and
then at puberty they turn
into a boy so they get raised as girls they are girls they're physically have
girls not yet nope what
this is a planet i mean this is it's an island in the south pacific
it's called pseudo hermaphroditism what i know i learned about this in grad
school so what do they
look like they look like girls what exactly like girls they are girls and then
the ovaries descend
as testicles and the clitoris grows out into a penis what so you think puberty
is hard enough already
these people turn into the opposite sex at age like 12 or 13 it's wild man so
is this a bizarre
genetic anomaly is it something to do with yes so a lot of times on islands you
get like really strange
characteristics of people because of the isolation that and those
characteristics get selected just
through genetic drift alone because it's a small population so just probably
one person had this
really weird trait where they're insensitive to dihydrotestosterone and then it
spread throughout
more of the population it doesn't do anything it's not something natural
selection would select
against it's just weird as shit what is the name of this island i don't
remember the name of the island
but the conditions called um find it i think it's malo island and vanadu or
something oh yeah how many
people were on that island this says there's a population in 1979 of 2300
people yeah and think
historically there's two different kinds of people there's something that says
two different kinds of
people cultural groups isn't that wild though man i remember hearing about that
in grad school at
ohio state and i was just like i'm sorry what it's so strange i'm sure you've
seen those people the
ostrich feet people in africa uh-uh it's a very strange genetic anomaly where
they don't grow toes
they essentially have two very wide appendages weird yeah they look it looks
like an like a like a
weird bird foot hmm it's very strange but a bunch of people in this particular
tribe share this trait
is there any advantage or it's just it's like this where it just kind of
happened and yeah i don't
know i don't know i mean i don't know what advantage there would be maybe it's
it's maybe it's really
sexy to them it's just like maybe you could move better with it i don't know it's
it's that's what
they look like whoa yeah i don't know how i haven't seen that that's wild i
know isn't that crazy i
mean it is kind of sexy um if that's what you're into dog i wonder how long
that's been going on for
vedoma see that seems like more of like a defect that just worked toward fixity
in the population
maybe not well it just makes you wonder like why don't we it's in zimbabwe
apparently why don't we
all have that you know like what is what is the reason why we have all these
toes that it's called
electrodactyl yeah that of electrodactyly i mean historically prehistorically
evolutionarily i should
say if you did have something like that and you were hunter-gatherer you're
kind of boned you know
you're not going to be able to run after gazelles i don't know maybe you can it
says their feet are
well adapted to the zimbabwe's oh zambazi not zimbabwe zambazi valley's rough
terrain allowing them
to move quickly and efficiently through the landscape all right i take it back
i guess it kind of makes
sense right because what what it's saying is that their their bones are fused
if you scroll up it'll say
condition affecting ostrich footed tribe genetic mutation passed down through
generations causes
the bones and the feet diffuse resulting in a claw-like structure with two
large toes
toes are very vulnerable i don't know if you've ever broken a toe but i broke
one an hour before i
got on the plane to come here really if you can see my left foot oh that's
hilarious that's ridiculous
like the whole thing is just purple yeah they're so small like my pinky toe i
was messing around
my pinky toe the other day because i i have to trim my toenails right and the
pinky toe is like barely
a nail it's so tiny and i'm like god this little thing is so vulnerable and it
has to
support my entire body weight or part of my entire body weight yeah they're so
dumb oh yeah you can see
that it's all like jacked yeah dude that was like right before i was coming
down here i'm like you're
kidding me that sucks so that yeah well i've broken a bunch of toes it's it's
very very annoying and you
would imagine if you had two giant fucking elbow bones down there instead of
these bitchy ass little
toesies oh maybe that's why they did it maybe that's what they got going on
kind of makes sense that
that would be an adaptation invincible feet yeah well you know we're we're so
vulnerable we're and
that's one of the weirder things like so first we should get into what you do
because you have uh
you have a very interesting theory tell everybody what your background is first
of all
yeah all right that does seem like a good place to start um my background is in
anthropology and
biological anthropology um my research mostly focuses on evolutionary anatomy
biomedicine
i've done some archaeology various places around the world in montana but the
reason i'm here i assume
because according to my friend matt we were uh we were butchering a mule deer i
think i shot
and i was like yeah i gotta go to this conference and i was like do you want to
know what it's about he's
like nobody gives a shit about what you do other than the ufos man i was like
damn it he's right
like i did actually used to do a lot of what i thought was cool stuff but no
the the main thing
is that i've i've become known for advocating for this idea that ufos uh and
the aliens are actually
our time traveling future human descendants
i wouldn't even say as opposed to extraterrestrials because i do think that's a
component too
i oftentimes get pigeonholed people are like oh you just think they're all time
travelers i don't i
actually say this all the time but it doesn't matter uh i do think there's a
lot going on but
but my background and the reason i approach this question this way is because
there's a lot of
characteristics of these aliens that look so hominin they look just like us and
specifically what we'd
expect to see in our hominin future if the same evolutionary trends continue
into the future
so i kind of just tie those things together and even the the saucer-shaped
craft seemingly
or time machines themselves so that's kind of the cliff notes version well it's
a theory that a lot of
people have independently sort of come to right especially recently and the the
concept of well just if you
just think about ancient man i was watching this uh documentary on neanderthals
last night about this
one uh intact neanderthal uh skeleton that they found that was it had uh sort
of been
he had died in a cave and you know the stalagmites stalactites or mites how do
you say tights are up mites or down so he was essentially
mineralized there was stuff all over the body and it took a long time for them
to break this body i think i saw that was on netflix
no i was watching on youtube maybe originally on netflix but it was just
documenting how strange this
this body was that they had found but it was immensely strong like much
stronger than us one of the interesting
things was that their visual cortex um the the part of the brain that would
process imagery was larger than
ours 10 to 20 percent larger yeah and that these so these things probably had
better eyesight than us
perhaps even we're able to see at night and that this was a bigger stronger
version of a human being
like much more durable than what we are modern 2025 homo sapiens yeah if you
just look yeah that's it
so that's one of them cool neither human nor neanderthal oh really this is a
published is this the same
this might not be the same one this is maybe a different one that's a weird one
because what's
that fucking thing on its head that's what it says it's a stalactite growing
out of it or something
wow in a weird form weird yeah it's like a unicorn yeah like a crest they do uh
they do have a sagittal
ridge yes um homo homo erectus had one we there's an offshoot in our hominin
lineage called the
paranthropus or robust australopithecines and they had a full-on like gorilla
style really sagittal ridge
yeah because they were vegetarians they just chewed all day right so they had
massive muscles to chew
yeah their whole face is huge wow neanderthals uh kind of i mean they were just
big it's just a
robusticity thing but there is uh evidence from shanadar cave in iraq where
they were using their
teeth as tools we think they were like tannin hides they were holding the hide
in their mouth and
then like scraping all the nasty bits oh and you can see that in the tooth wear
so yeah they were
they were pretty badass they were the first i don't know i think this is cool
but a lot of
people think i'm a nerd too um they were the first to to use the flake like for
2.8 million years we
just hit a piece of rock and like oh this cool tool but then they figured out
uh that if you hit the
rock in just the right way the piece that falls off makes an even better tool
it took us like 2.5
yes exactly you make a narrow head and from that point on like i got to work at
a place called
shapey noah jonsac in southern france for a summer and it was a neanderthal
site and we found these
actually it's pretty funny because when we first got there these things these
tools called mta hand
axes musterian it was shulian tradition hand axes and there were only eight
found in all of europe
and they said if you guys find one of these we'll buy you all the beer and all
the cognac you can
drinks we're in the cognac region of france and we found one like the fourth or
fifth day
we went on to find seven more over the course of that week we doubled the
number of these things in
existence wow in all of europe and they were not lying they bought us so many
damn beers like
archaeologists like to drink you know we we dig and it's boring as hell you
know it's not indiana jones
we're not running around banging hot chicks and flying on planes we're like we
got a spoon
and we're doing this for eight hours so uh yeah i actually found the last one
on the last day and
it was by far the worst one like i had to argue that this is even it should
even count as one of
these um but yeah no it was it was a cool site um so yeah they were they were
doing well but we were
doing better we came in and something happened where we replaced them yeah this
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leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together that's something i
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taking some time for ourselves this season you do so many things for the other
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point is as time goes on
humans today are probably the most feeble version of humans that have ever
existed for sure yeah and
we're we're the most feeble versions of people that have existed within the
last century right like
if you go back to humans from the 1920s versus humans from the 2020s people
have way less testosterone
now way or higher instances of miscarriages way lower sperm count you know
there's a lot of factors
that are at play right now that are changing what a human is and if you
extrapolate if you look at the
future you would naturally say well we're probably going to be very thin it
seems like there's at least some sort of a push to
eliminate gender like gender seems like it's on the table is whether or not it's
even necessary
there's all sorts of new technological innovations that are leading to
the possibility at least sometime in the future of an artificial womb
there's genetic engineering with crispr and a lot of other different
technologies that are being
explored that we might be able to engineer human beings and then even create a
complete
individual human being without a mother without a father so if you thought
about what that looks
like in the future look one of our problems on this planet is we all have
different ideologies
different religions come from different parts of the world we look different
and human beings as tribal
primates have a tendency to other we other different tribes those are not us we
are us those are the enemy
we go up you rally around it but if everybody's exactly the same and we share
one mind you know
then a lot of our problems go away if we no longer have to compete for
resources we no longer have the
desire to procreate and to acquire land and to be you know to have a territory
we we eliminate a lot of our issues and that's what these things look like when
you look at the archetypal
these iconic sort of shapes that have been on cave walls all the way up to
close encounters of the
third kind one thing they share is that they have no muscle they have large
heads they have big eyes
and they're child like they're very pedomorphic as we say yeah you just tied
together like a lot of
really important points um related to this theory uh aspects of why they're
always interested in our
gametes why they come back and put that little machine on a man to collect semen
why they're constantly
taking eggs from females and implanting fetuses pulling them back out later
like they're clearly focused on
reproduction gamete extraction and one of the things that might be fueling that
in the future if these
are future humans let's just assume for a second hypothetically is that they
might be having
problems directly resulting from these trends toward self-domestication these
trends toward feminization
these trends toward reduced sperm counts which is 60 percent across most
populations of the world
in the industrialized world 50 across the entire world um yeah problems with
reproduction uh in vitro
fertilization exogenesis chambers might help solve some of those problems
growing the the fetus outside of
the body so so yeah and and like you said you know what do they look like they
look like kind of a
hybrid between males and females to some extent but there's still an essence
of gender like if you talk to whitley streber you know he's with this bean he
he says in communion that
i had a sense that she was a woman i don't know why but i kind of sensed that
so it's almost like
the the essence of the individual the soul of the individual still retains that
sort of gender identity
even though our bodies are becoming more childlike more gender indiscriminate
uh i don't know but
yeah yet another one of those ways in which we might sort of grow together as a
species now when you say
they are extracting sperm like how many of these stories do you
take seriously there's a lot of these stories great question you know this
unfortunately for any sort of spectacular
public thing that's in the zeitgeist like alien abduction whether it's whitley
streber from communion
or the john mack books uh the guy from harvard that wrote um what was it abduction
passport to the
cosmos and abduction yeah two great books great books but these are all books
about encounters close
encounters of the third kind with some sort of a being from another place
whatever it is it's just not a
human being and it seems to be techno technologically superior to us it seems
to be one thing they all
seem to share as they seem to be able to communicate telekinetically or telepathically
yeah yeah and i
mean they they aren't human but they are very human too so for instance like
that that's one of the
main reasons i started exploring this i was actually kind of put into this when
i was eight or nine years
old sort of activated in a way and put on this path by a weird thing that
happened to me what happened
to you well so i talk about it in my first two books identified flying objects
and the extra tempestual
model where my i learned about um a close encounter that my dad had he was a
veterinarian in northeast
ohio where i grew up and he was out one night on a call uh with another guy so
there's two people as
far as jail and inox reliability scale has more reliability because there's
multiple witnesses
it's also strange on his scale because they crested the hill there's a bright
light this is an amish
country there's no lights in amish country and all of a sudden this bright
light darts toward them
hovers just above their truck darts back to where it was and straight up into
space like at incredible
speed so this happened before i was born but i overheard him telling the story
to some friends
one night he got whitley streber's book communion as most people did in the
1980s and as they should
because it's a great book and i walked into the living room the book is sitting
on the shelf facing
out and i remember like it was yesterday i sort of stopped and there was like
this light like a white
light and then i saw this image in my mind of like uh an early hominin chimpanzee
like creature a modern
human and then that archetypal gray alien from the cover with this information
what if they're related
what if they are us from the future and obviously i mean that's why i became a
biological anthropologist
people are always like so you saw this yeah it was like a flash like a light
and you know it's weird
looking back on it because i know a lot more about these experiences i've
talked to people that have had
these types of experiences what was the setting it was our living room so it
was like the you come in
the front door and just to the left there's this living room built-in bookshelf
willy's books right
there i just turned the corner saw it and then like just kind of it just came
like i didn't know
shit about evolutionary biology i didn't know about you saw it you saw it how
in my mind just this white
just an image and those that image of the three faces and then the question
could they be us from
the future and a lot of people are like how did you get into ufos like you're
you're a biological
anthropologist it's the opposite i got into biological anthropology to research
this question of whether
they could be us from the future huh so so this you felt like at that moment it
wasn't just
like a weird thought or a dream it felt like a message like what did it feel
like yeah yeah it
was some it was a tasking you know i think i think rupert sheldrake said it
that that people don't have
ideas ideas have people i think that was like the hey go do this thing and i
did that's why we're here
now talking about it and obviously you know you got to be careful about like
selection bias and
confirmation bias like i didn't go into this i didn't go into grad school i
also didn't tell
anybody in grad school i was there because they would have kicked me out um but
i went into it with
an open mind but i was there to study these things because of that event when i
was eight years old wow
yeah it's it is a problem the confirmation bias it is a problem with wanting it
to be real and i
struggle with that because i desperately want it to be real and so every time i
talk to someone you
know i've talked to a bunch of people that are you know air quote whistleblowers
and some of them i
think for sure have been sent in here to distribute this information yeah no
doubt for sure because it's
a great place to do it yeah i'll listen to you yeah i'll entertain almost
anything which is great we need
that yeah you know but yeah i mean obviously there's people that are going to
take advantage of it but i
think it's also important for me to say i'm not convinced i you know i don't
know how much of this
is horseshit but it's not zero no and that was your question is how how do i
differentiate among these
different cases um i do draw from hynix in his book the ufo experience he lists
out how we all should
approach this based on the reliability scale and the strangeness scale um jacques
valet also drew from
that helped him develop it as part of the invisible college and all of his work
but regardless of like
my own personal discernment because my second book the extra tempestria model
is about 30 case studies
15 main case studies but then i pull in other ones and it explores the
different theories obviously
the main one being this extra tempestrial idea this future which by the way i
saw the word of the
day today was anachronistic and i was like man that would have been a way
better word than
extra tempestria which everybody struggles with i could have called them anacronauts
doesn't that sound cool that does anacronauts oh that sounds really cool i know
what the hell was
i thinking man anyway what have you learned but so one of the most commonly
reported things across
all cases regardless of whether you think it's bullshit or you think this
definitely happened
is they really want our sperm they really need or want our reproductive
material our gametes and it's
funny because i when i wrote my first book in 20 i started in 2012 published it
in 2019 right at the end
i did an interview and someone's like have you heard of jim peniston like no
which is kind of a failing
on my bf i'll admit that one uh it turns out so it was the rendersham forest
incident he touched this
craft he got this binary code and he uh when deciphering the binary code they
legitimately
specifically said we are you from the future we're having problems with
reproduction he underwent
hypnotic regression we're having problems with reproduction and we need this
genetic material
to help ourselves you know a lot of people are like well why are they coming
back and doing stuff
to us i think they're coming back and getting stuff from us because of problems
they're having largely
related to what you were talking about earlier with the reduced sperm counts
the problem with female
infertility what if we do try to create the perfect human specimen or we try to
cure these genetic diseases
through genetic manipulation crisper and we screw something up we might have to
come back but we
can't go to another planet there aren't people on these planets we can't go and
sample gametes from
these other places we might have to go into our past to get those wild type on
uh unmanipulated
gametes in order to fix these problems god that's that's a crazy level of
technological sophistication
the ability to venture back in time and somehow or another not fuck up the
timeline that's leading to
i mean this is the problem that's always been theorized about time travel
anything that you do
if you went back in time any interactions you would completely change how the
future would play out
in the many worlds interpretation yeah so that idea is unfortunately very pervasive
and mostly because
of back to the future which i think ruined the brains of most people might do
certainly in my
my generation um but what most visit and physicists don't agree on many things
but most agree that we
live in what's called a block universe landscape time block time where if you
imagine all moments
from the very beginning of the big bang to the end of the universe where all
matter disappears it appears
into like a black hole or contracts or whatever it does all moments are already
there they exist
as this massive four-dimensional block of all moments all world lines
everything so you go back into
the past as you perceive it you can do whatever you want you can walk around
step on butterflies you
know slap people on the face kick over you know dinosaurs or whatever i don't
think we can go back that
far but you could do anything you want and it doesn't change anything because
you're going back in the
black universe and doing those things you were always already going to do and
when you get home
everything's the same because that was already their past to everybody that
stayed behind that was
already their past it was only the future for you to go back and do those
things that you were already
going to do and then you just went and did them get home everything's the same
because you were always
going to do those things in the first place that's bizarre that's hard and if
that is the actual model
of the universe and again i can only work in writing these books i can only
work from what we know now
clearly there's a lot of things we don't know i'm not claiming to know anything
beyond what we can
know right now but physicists despite not knowing what time is they know it's
an emergent phenomenon
there's something more fundamental that time comes from but they do agree on
this block universe
model and in that case there is no paradox how did they all agree on that like
wouldn't you have to
test that and come up with some sort of a hypothesis and then try to prove it
or disprove it you're
right i shouldn't say they all agree because there is the many worlds
interpretation of quantum mechanics
where if you went back in that situation it would be change you would be
changing the timeline
would it be changing your timeline or would it be changing a different timeline
is the question
and how would you know there's more paradoxes with changing things than not
changing things why do
you confidently state that you don't think that they can go back to the
dinosaur age um
partly because three different reasons one um i think they need tremendously
high speed in order to be
able to go back into the past um so basically again working from all i can work
from in this time with the limited
primitive primate knowledge that i have in the year 2012 to 2025
um i basically just started with einstein's theory of relativity which he
published in 1905 on the
electrodynamics of moving bodies and then in 1915 he published his paper on
general relativity
from that point on almost instantly there were solutions to his field equations
that showed
with the right parameters of a massively highly uh energetic rotating ring or
sphere or disk
that you could create close time light curves that you could actually orient
light cones back toward
the past so you can physically go into the past we saw this with lens and thuring
in like 1917 and 18
kurt godel godel universe was not long after and i think the 20s maybe and then
importantly in 1970s
you had frank tipler uh who showed mathematically that you can shrink that down
to a disk he actually
called it a disk and that's one of the reasons i think that these are time
machines is because
it has all of the parameters described by frank tipler he wasn't talking about
ufos but it they
seemingly have the ability to jump in and out of time they appear and disappear
and i'm talking too much
so i'll wrap this up in a second but you're definitely not talking too much
well i mean we're here to
talk but i have an internal trigger where i'm like shut up masters you're
talking too much don't listen
to that trigger let it roll um so anyway you know if you look at the history of
how we understand
backward time travel what i think they're doing is that i think they're
combining general relativity
and special relativity so i think they're orienting the light cones toward the
past by rotating these
things really really fast you hear that all the time they power up they're
spinning or at least
there's some sort of flywheel on the outside that's spinning i think that's
what's allowing
them to move toward the past and then they take off so it's that high speed
that i think allows them
to go further into the past so they're using you're aware of the twins paradox
i'm sure um time dilation
where you have two twins they're the same age and then one goes into a
spaceship they move at
tremendously high speed they come back and they're much younger than their twin
because time moved faster
back on earth i think they're using that high speed motion while light cones
are oriented toward the
past in order to travel deeper into the past through that process of time dilation
there are limits to
how fast we can go einstein was very adamant about this because there's an
increase in inertial forces
the faster you go relative to the speed of light that's why he thought we could
never go that's why he
thought that anything with mass could never go faster than the speed of light
light can do it because
it's a wave or a particle or both um so i think there's a limit to how fast we
can go the other
reason is because jim penniston in this hypnotic regression said that he's like
we can only go 40
to 60 000 years into the past or we might not get back you also have and this
is a more speculative
one so take it for what it's worth you also have the dan burish testimony of
this j-rod this allegedly
captured alien who said we're from the future we are you from the future and we're
from about 55 to
60 000 years in your future so those three things together are why i don't
think we could go back 65
million years to hunt dinosaurs which actually would be kind of fun when you've
been talking about going
the speed of light you're talking about not traditional propulsion but some
form of propulsion that
allows you to go at insane speeds yeah electromagnetic is what it seems to be
um and and importantly the
electromagnetic force is 10 to the 40 times more powerful than gravity so not
only do i think that's
what they use to fly i think that's what they use to manipulate space time
actually and dan burish is
not dan burish uh dan farah i think you just had him on to the age of
disclosure yes there's this
really cool thing at the end where uh how put off and i think eric davis as
well we're talking about
this space-time bubble right a really weird thing happened we can get to that
in a second but i don't
want to jump around too much because i'll lose people and myself probably um
but this space-time
bubble that they form around the craft i think is also indicative of the fact
that they're manipulating
space-time that they're traveling in and out of time they use it to hide in
plain sight they manipulate
the rate at which they move relative to us in their frame of reference and they're
moving fast all
around us and they've slowed time down outside of that bubble so everything is
really really slow to
them and they can easily evade our bullets and our missiles but we don't see
them because we don't
have that frame rate of perception and and if you slow videos down i'm sure you've
seen these all the
time where there's like a and then you slow it down and you can see this saucer-shaped
craft moving
slowly across the sky once you slow down the frame rate um but a really funny
thing happened because
i've never actually talked about this uh with anyone before um i owe a lot of
the fact that anybody even
knows who i am to help put off he uh when i first started talking about this
publicly in 2018 and then
i published my book in 2019 identified flying objects he um i guess reached out
to the head of
MUFON at the time who was putting together the 50th anniversary MUFON event and
was like hey you should
have this mike masters guy come talk and i found that out from the head of MUFON
he's like hey just
so you know how put off of all people recommended i contact you i had no idea
who that is so i get
on the internet i google how put off um he also put jesse michaels mutual
friend uh in touch with
me after i think he did an interview with him and weinstein uh i forget his
name eric yeah yeah yeah so he
did a an interview with those two i guess how was like hey you should reach out
to mcmaster's and he
did and we talked and we've done stuff together but what was cool is that at
the end of that age of
disclosure film when he's talking about the space-time bubble i thought back to
after my first book came
out and i was contacted by someone who claimed to be an ex-intelligence person
who explained that exact same
thing to me back in 2019 that these things aren't doing 10 000 g maneuvers that
would crush anything
inside to them in their frame of reference what they feel is completely
different than what we see
because in that space-time bubble they can be moving at 50 000 miles an hour to
a right-hand turn
and it would splatter anything inside because of the g-forces that's what we
see on the outside
but in that space-time bubble they probably feel one two g's at the most so i
started thinking man was that
how did how reach out to me with like uh a different email address and say hey
just so you know
this is how these things are happening this is how they're able to do it and i
was a dumbass i still
am a dumbass but i was an extra big dumbass back then and i was like oh cool
thanks man you know
like a story went viral about my books and fox news picked it up and space.com
and so i was going
through a bunch of emails they recognized i wasn't getting what they were
saying i was not picking up
what they were putting down and they were like no this is important said it
again and then it clicked
i was like oh yeah that makes perfect sense they're manipulating the rate at
which time passes
in this bubble around the craft and we see something completely different so
when we're
seeing this we are imagining what we can do and we're sort of saying well what
would be an advanced
version of what we can do and what this technology is is something that's
levels of magnitude beyond
even our theoretical like any sort of idea that we have currently about you
know potential future
timelines of technology yeah there's no one talking about gravity bubbles that
allow you to
instantaneously traverse immense gaps in the universe well they might be
talking about buying closed doors
at right patterson air force base right and have been for 70 years yeah that's
the problem that's the real
problem with disclosure like how how much progress could we have made if they
had opened up all this
stuff and and you got to imagine if you were an intelligent life form from
another planet you know
diana pasolka talked about uh her and gary nolan talked about how they refer to
some of these things as
donations they don't think of them as crashed vehicles because some of them are
not crashed they're
completely intact and i think david grush said that too didn't yeah i believe
he did yeah and even you
know lazar when when he was talking about it he you know he had a sports model
wasn't that fully intact
too fully intact yeah fully intact and operational and apparently they flew it
around okay yeah that'd be
fun well that was one of the reasons you know the whole story how he got caught
it's a really crazy
story so uh he used to work at los alamos he was a propulsions expert guy put a
jet engine on the
back of a honda he was a real freak you know he made a hydrogen corvette in
like the 1990s he was
nutty dude clearly an engineer yeah that part checks out um so he uh gets his
job on area s4
and um goes there and it's all documented in jeremy corbell's uh excellent
movie uh bob lazar area 51
flying saucers so he goes there and sees this thing and it's got a american
flag sticker on it
and you know they basically say tell us how it works and he's like oh this is
ours because he sees
it has a sticker on it and then he realizes this is made out of some completely
unknown alloy there's
no seams in it it seems to be 3d printed there's no controls inside of it it's
designed for something
that's three feet tall it's all very weird um so he's working on this thing not
making much headway
at all they they understood that there was an element element 115 that was uh
not even on the periodic
table uh eventually found to actually be a thing by the large hadron collider
um but even then they
only measured it for a millisecond right so then he's saying that they have
this stable version of
this element and you bombard it with radiation creates this sort of gravity
drive um he's working
on this thing and it's all top secret so he cannot tell his wife so they're
calling him up at 10 o'clock
like hey get to the airplane the uh airport uh we need you and so he would have
to fly out at random
times fly out to s4 and his wife was like this mother's having an affair well i'm
gonna have an
affair too so she starts her flight attendant or a flight instructor i think
that's what it was um
when you have that kind of clearance they are monitoring everything they're
monitoring all your
phone calls they're those so they've realized that his wife is having an affair
and they think that he
will be emotionally unstable and it's too dangerous to have him working on this
insanely top secret
information if he's not stable so they they tell him you know we're gonna at
least temporarily relieve
you of your duties so he's freaked out and he tells his friends like hey this
this is this is what
they're doing there they have these things and they fly them every wednesday i'm
going to take you guys
there's an area we can go watch so they take he takes his friends out there on
two separate occasions
i believe um they get caught they get caught gets arrested uh they release him
and he realizes like
i'm kind of they might kill me i'm gonna have to go public with this contacts
george knap i did see
that then the whole thing is history yeah yeah no that's wild man and i i think
and it's still
happening you know there's still these whistleblowers he says they they used to
fly them and you could go
watch them fly these things and they were moving in these really weird ways
across the sky that you
cannot do with conventional aircraft that they only sort of understood how to
like pick it up and put it
down they didn't understand how to like really that was out at groom lake right
yes yeah i remember as
a kid i've been obviously been into this for a long time i remember as a kid
seeing videos of people
going out and then they eventually closed it down you couldn't get to that spot
but there was like
that was during the obama administration during the obama administration they
actually had to admit
that area 51 was real because before that they didn't no one even knew it was
real i mean there was
always just a joke like area 51 it was like for fun but then they said no it is
real and we need to expand the
forbidden boundary yeah and isn't that when people were gonna like bum rush it
too is that when that
happened that was during covet okay during cover there was a bunch of dorks
that like we're gonna
crash area 51 that's a good way to die exactly they'll fucking kill you a
natural selection yeah
they're working on a lot of stuff out there and some of it is weapons right
they can't have you uh
internet dorks from reddit just running out into area 51 yeah i think they
eventually realized that
because i don't think they went out there but i could have been bad i think it
was all
bullshit they weren't gonna what are you gonna do engagement farming yeah man
there's a lot of crazy
shit that's been going on it's been going on for a while um jamie and i were
talking before and
about the stove piping too and all the different yeah the different ways that
they compartmentalize
what they're doing and they talked about it in age of disclosure too that's a
big problem because
certain people are working on these parts of the craft to reverse engineer them
to understand them
but they don't have the whole picture lazar was talking about that from the
1980s yeah in 1989 he
said the people that are working on metallurgy were not in contact with the
people that are working on
propulsion and you weren't he's like science cannot operate like that yeah no
it can't because you need
to know what's going on beyond just this little part that you're working on and
if you have a bunch of
people that are sharing information you get a much more comprehensive
understanding of what this thing
is yeah we all benefit from communication right because there could be
something involved in the
actual structure of it that lends to its ability to do something it might not
be simply just structure
it might be structure with some sort of an ability yeah you can't see the
forest through the trees in
these situations and and it's unfortunate and what the argument they made in
this this doco is that
we're putting ourselves at disadvantage because other countries have probably
retrieved these things too
and they might be working on it yes in secrecy but if people are working
together right and not
stove piping this thing right at infinitum then they might be able to actually
make more progress faster
than us so part of the disclosure push is to be like yeah these things are real
we have them
let's get our best scientists together to work on this holistically instead of
compartmentalizing it
well just imagine if they had done that from 1947 where we would be exactly if
that's real if roswell
was real if all the crash was real philip drake corso is correct and all these
people are telling the
truth i know and we still have to preface these things with if if it's real if
it's real and and yeah
i i i i do the same thing i mean as coming from academia when i wrote my first
book i had to be like
if this is real but it's hard it's this this paradox of sorts because it how do
you write to explain
something that isn't real right what's the point of even doing that yeah um so
so i think we have to
assume i'm actually teaching a class uh montana tech this spring called ufo's
history and science
oh i would take that if i was in school i think i think it's gonna be a lot of
fun yeah i know i'm
pretty stoked about it and i had these artists design a poster in norway and
the uk and just this
crazy like i was like how how conservative should i be with this like just a ufo
and i gave him total
artistic freedom and there's like an alien holding the earth and this ufo is
like i guess that's what
i'm doing plastered it all over campus to recruit people to take the class but
like i'm going in on day
one we're not we're not gonna fuck around with like are these things real we're
not gonna waste time on
that we're gonna jump in these are real here's what we're doing this is what we
know this is what we
don't know explore the theories explore the history explore the prehistory
because it's it's a waste of
time like these things these things are real you think they're real i know what
makes you convinced
um i have read enough accounts in researching this and from people that i know
i mean starting from when
i was a kid hearing my biological father's account you know the way he told it
and then i interviewed
him again in college to try to get more information because i was just over
hearing from the stairs when
i was supposed to be in bed he saw what he saw and then eventually i saw some ufos
what did you see
i was kind of pissed actually because i started talking about this in 2018 and
people were always
like you ever seen ufo no never seen ufo i'd like to and then finally in 2022
uh it might have been late
2021 i don't remember exactly when it was kind of warmish so it was probably
2021 but i i was everybody's
in bed i'm at my house i live in a canyon and i was having a whiskey and i was
like i just walked up the
canyon wall for some reason like the hill behind my house i don't really know
why i turned around and i could
see these five super bright lights over what's known as the east ridge in butte
montana they were just
like sitting there right over the east ridge i was like well that's not normal
those aren't usually
there and they weren't stars you know they're way too big way too close i would
say they were probably
within eight to five to eight miles you know they they were in the distance but
they were like there
and then i just kind of looked at them for a second like oh that's weird and
then one by one from right
to left they just went shot off toward the southeast at like crazy speed you
know like the the kind of
like in in star wars or star trek and they hit hyper drive and there's that
that little light trail
like just one by one until they were all gone
that i have no conventional explanation for that wow but i've never been one of
those people that's
like i need to see it to believe it right because i believe the people who say
the same thing over
and over there's patterns that we can extract from people's testaments who have
had these close
encounters and that's one unfortunate thing that's happening right now is we're
talking about the pilots
talking about police but people have been seeing these forever but they did
such a good job
manufacturing the stigma around it with project sign project grudge project
blue book to discount these
people to make them seem insane you know these that is one of the main points
of evidence that i would
point to that there is something when people think there isn't something i'm
just like you should
really pay attention to what they were trying to do during project blue book
yeah because one of them
i have a buddy mine my friend steve graham shout out to steve when he was a boy
he was living in new
york uh upstate new york and um he filmed this red orb that was flying across
the sky and he took some
photographs of it and um they called someone some officials somewhere i don't
remember he was he was
very young and um they said we're going to analyze the photos and then we'll
bring them back to you
and um they never returned the photographs when he called he said no agents
there's no record of any
agents coming to visit you we don't know what to tell you so they just took his
photos and that was it
but he said whatever it was you know he was young i believe he was 10 or 11 and
he said whatever it
was was really weird he goes it was this red orb that was flying through the
sky um it was a spacecraft
it wasn't a sun it wasn't a meteor it looked like it was moving purposely and
under control and um
it was there long enough for him to take a polaroid of it yeah and um they just
completely
erased any memory of it or any any evidence of it when he called like i said
they said no agents
visited you whatever the agent's name or there's no agents by that name that's
kind of the status quo
would they try to make you look like a fool absolutely and that that was
intentional like
the stated mission of project grudge was to debunk these things come up with
conventional
explanations and make people seem like idiots right not it wasn't to
investigate no not at all the the
purpose wasn't let's get to the bottom of this find out is this russia is russia
doing this that was
not the purpose the purpose was make these people look like fools you only do
that if you know something
that other people don't yeah this episode is brought to you by monster ultra
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damn good job at it
because we still feel like fools talking about this oh yeah we still have to
check ourselves and be like
is this real if this is real you know right but but i i think that shame is
starting to diminish i think
the stigma is starting to go away well i think the new york times article for
2017 absolutely that was a
game changer that was a big one yeah and then from then on it's been this trickle
these guys like ryan
graves and you know guys like david favor these these david favors guys that
was you know he was
in a fighter jet saw this thing move from 50 000 feet above sea level to sea
level in less less than
a second yeah and they saw this thing there was something under the water below
it it's like
whatever he saw and if you ever talked to him ever have you ever talked to him
i've talked to alex
dietrich who was with him during that he's a very reliable guy and very
intelligent by the book very
disciplined i mean he was like a top gun yes pilot like he's leading the exact
group right yeah he's
a commander yeah so and when he describes it it sounds very real whatever he's
talking about he
experienced i believe that and there's also a video of it there's video of it
flying um they have the radar
data data they know that it went to their designated meetup point the cap point
yeah which is really
weird it is and it indicates they knew the future or they were part of our
military right i kind of
wonder if the tick-tack be because it is somewhat anomalous in the context of a
lot of things in the
ufo lore as far as spinning discs or big triangular craft this one kind of
seems like one of ours well it
is odd that these things happen where there's a lot of military training
exercises like this one was off
the coast of san diego yeah it was off the nimitz you know so the they had the
the nimitz which was
out there obviously you got a lot of military in san diego and the roosevelt
too i think is where
they were capturing the radar and the ones that ryan grave experienced were all
east coast again it's
all near military bases it's all where they do military training exercises yeah
and why not figure
out what you can do with people that you train with already anyway right you
know and why not
see like what is detectable and what's not you know ryan graves talks about how
in 2014 they upgraded
all the sensors and the jets and then all of a sudden they started picking
these things up all over the
place he said they were encountering them virtually every time they went out
which is so weird imagine
you're encountering uh was it a a circle inside of a sphere or a sphere inside
of i think it was a
circle in a a sphere yeah whatever it was yeah which one was it was a circle in
a sphere it was i just
saw a picture on twitter recently it was a little circle and then a cube or
something very
fucking weird whatever that is it is able to hover motionless and like 200
knots of wind yeah and it
would make sense if we are reverse engineering these they're going to look
pretty primitive it's
basically a big propane tank that they're flying around like they probably
started simple it's
probably unmanned but they're testing that capability to like manipulate the
space time to shoot off you
know because it dropped ten eighty thousand feet that's what it looks like yeah
a cube oh yeah i can
remember apparently my dyslexia extends to images too explained using ufo
patents click on that
explained a recent article by the hill has highlighted the reports of a cubana
sphere uap military pilots
have been seeing as reported by graves where he once again highlights how often
our pilots are seeing
these things and why he doesn't believe they are conventional drones or
balloons and so this is uh
obviously some sort of a computer generated rendition ah the fucking pop-up
yeah for sure um but so i
mean yeah they didn't get a picture of it but but here's the patents scroll up
a little bit uh so a
month ago i did a deep dive in a post about ufo patents how magnetohydrodynamic
propulsion systems
could explain some of the observations includes an expired patent from the 1960s
and a few newer patents
describing not only the propulsion but how the plasma field can make the craft
invisible to radar
huh huh yeah i mean again it makes sense like if if we have been reverse
engineering these for 70
years we would start bringing them out they would look weird they wouldn't
necessarily look like the
craft that we struggled to fly at groom lake that we could go up and down with
and that's about it like
they would look like this little thing that's simple it's basic it's a propane
tank or it's a
cube within a sphere i probably had that backwards again um and then experiment
with it see what you
can do and a lot of people make the argument why would they do that it's
dangerous you know what if
there was a mid-air collision if they are actually manipulating space-time in
these things like they
seemingly are with the the saucer-shaped craft you don't have to worry about
that you know you're you're
it's this isn't a cat and mouse game where the cat and mouse are equal like you
have complete
control of space-time in and around that area you're not going to run into
anybody they're all moving
extremely slowly relative to you according to put off and davis at the end of
that doco and whoever
reached out to me whether it was hal or not somebody reached out to me and
explained the same thing in
2019 and it makes a lot of damn sense and to kind of extend it into my area of
research if you can
manipulate space and time in and around this craft what's keeping you from
using that to travel through
time i guess i mean but again that's with the the different model not the multi-worlds
model but
what was the other model that you just block universe block universe theory
yeah um the idea that they
would be so advanced that they could genetically engineer a body and get to
whatever state they are at
where they communicate telepathically but yet they can't solve the problem of
old dna like needing
what what do they need genetic diversity like what is it what are they trying
to get out of us are
they trying to get the source source material well instead of the old stuff or
instead of the stuff
that they've had forever one of the arguments i made in my first and second
books is that
really since european colonialism starting about 500 years ago we are all
becoming one interbreeding
population so it used to be that you had different isolated populations and
then occasionally there
would be gene flow that introduces new genes if we all are just one population
on this inbred island of
earth where are you going to get new gene variants and then you combine that
with uh the things we just
talked about with the potential for things to go wrong with trying to make
designer babies or you know the
trends toward reduced fertility in men and women and importantly the potential
that there could be some
massive cataclysm that puts us into a huge bottleneck where there just is no
genetic diversity at all
like if you think about something that happened that wiped out a huge
percentage of the population
and there are warnings about this over and over again with experiencers and
contactees they're like
there's some cataclysmic thing coming if that were to happen all of those
problems we're already
having all of the trends that are already leading to us having problems with
fertility in the future
will be hugely exacerbated by a very limited gene pool well we know that human
beings have gotten down
to a very small population in the past yeah so we are so we're already kind of
limited yeah in our diversity
what do you think of the theory that human beings have been genetically
engineered
man when i first started in all this i wouldn't touch that one
because i had to impose some restrictions on myself so i didn't seem like a
crazy person
and keep your academic standing yeah
i don't really care anymore to be honest well you sold a few books yeah i sold
some books i mean
that's the thing is like i i do have the respect of my peers you know it's not
a career killer anymore
no exactly no you know i mean back in 2018 i was kind of rolling the dice i was
really nervous about
it i went to the chair of my department and was like hey just so you know in
case there's any pushback
i'm publishing this book about whether you know ufos are future humans and he
looked at me and
cocked his head it's like that's our job it's what we're supposed to be doing
asking questions like
that like he was all pissed off like why are you even asking me this or telling
me this well that's
a cool guy yeah i was like sweet all right well check i got one i got one on
board at least um but
i was really conservative in this approach like the dean actually of of my
college who gave me an award
for um scholarship and researchers and there's a lot of amazing researchers at
montana technological
university like we're very well known for research and scholarship she gave me
an award in 2022
for research and scholarship and all i was doing at that point was ufo stuff
you know that was kind
of a nod too but she was telling me the other day in a meeting so i'm the chair
of the department
uh unfortunately and she was like oh your your dissertation book because i did
kind of write
my first book as a dissertation it's very scientific it's very dense it's very
technical
but i needed to do that because of the stigma you know because of the shame and
you're right it is
changing which is great but there are certain things that we still can't that
are hard for
me to talk about because it starts to get into ancient aliens territory and
that's one of them
are they manipulating us genetically have been for a long time i don't know i
used to say i don't know
so i didn't have to talk about it now i say i don't know because i genuinely
don't know maybe well
how could you how could i yeah good point yeah i mean it's all theoretical but
there seems to be
a trend in at least the encounter reports and there's when when people have
reported some sort
of communication with these things there there is there's a lot of talk of
genetic manipulation
there's a lot of talk of it's the most common trope yeah thing but it also
makes sense when you
look at how different we are than any other animal that exists or has existed
true we're so advanced and so
weird and we vary so much like biologically and structurally i mean there's
animals like there's
different kinds of wolves right there's gray wolves and red wolves and they
vary and you know red wolves
and gray wolves they can't even interbreed and create viable offspring in terms
of like their ability
like they would be hybrids if they did breed where they wouldn't but they don't
they don't breed with red
wolves and coyotes which is also a type of wolf but that's kind of where it
ends whereas humans are
fucking we at least coyotes all look like coyotes wolves all kind of look like
wolves like with humans
you get seven foot tall people and five foot tall people and round people and
thin but we are actually
all very similar genetically there's a study done in the 70s um looking at polymorphisms
and they found that
between like what it used to be thought there were races like africans asians
and europeans that was
it they didn't consider native americans or australians or anybody um but they
did this study on
polymorphisms found that only about six to seven percent of our all of our
genetic differences can be
accounted for by those between group differences and they did the same thing
with y chromosomes they
did the same thing with craniofacial anatomy and found that we're all very
similar so despite those
differences in height weight skin color hair color eye color were were very
very similar which could again
lead to problems related to genetic homogenization limited gene pool in the
future needing to go back
and sample gametes from the past another argument i hear people make related to
what you're saying like
an argument for potential genetic manipulation of the human species over time
is that it all happened
really fast we see this acceleration in our rate of change rate of our
technological development those
things might indicate that there's some sort of seeding in the past with not
just technology but the
genetics that allow us to expand our minds and develop these things well then
there's the weird stories
from ancient scripts ancient texts like the book of enoch like what what is
that all about like that's some
weird stuff where it talks about the watchers yeah coming down from the sky and
mating with humans and
creating the nephilim who destroy everything yeah i might get some shit for
this but i would be willing to bet
that all major religions and the little ones have some sort of ufo alien
component to
the myth and legend that gave rise to them over time it makes sense it does
actually the third book
i wrote revelation flips the whole script on revelation and it it interjects
time travelers it interjects this
this whole there was for a while there's this question of like whether there
was a fight over
the timeline whether the greys were coming back to because some cataclysm
needed to happen and we all
went underground and that's why we have big eyes and pale skinks we had to
evolve underground for a while
and then another group like trying to keep that from happening so the book kind
of explores that in a
fictional capacity and i wrote it because my friends weren't reading my science
books because they're dense and
scientific and i was like man you know what if i wrote a book that's just like
a crass sex drug-fueled
exploration of like this time travel idea and that's where that book came from
it still ties in all of
these same concepts scientifically but in the story like the the main character
is a intertemporal sex
researcher she goes back in time and just fucks everybody to learn what to
learn what sex that's the
book i gave you when i got here actually so it's a weird one that's right here
yeah it's a weird one
but it was super fun to write you know and they're like and and then her the
professor in this book
he's like the the he's an intertemporal drug kingpin of sorts um but but it's
like it's exploring these
same ideas in a different way you know with fiction it's satire it's comedy the
the word most commonly
used is it's hilarious it's a comedy book you know because i wanted people that
don't read the science
books to still be introduced to this concept and the science behind it in a
different way
and man it was so much more fun to write than those science books what do you
think of um when people
start theorizing about some sort of a breakaway civilization that lives under
the ocean yeah so
we actually published a paper about that last june about the crypto terrestrial
hypothesis you mentioned
it on your show in a really funny way because it went viral internationally it
was absolutely insane
the impact this thing had um like i had to go on fox and friends one morning to
talk about it and
then the next day i did what made it go viral what was the well because i
published it with two guys from
harvard i was a co-author on the paper and so it's click bait it's harvard
researchers say
dinosaurs are aliens and they live among you so stuff like that oh and it
worked because it
it i i yeah well it makes you go what yours was the funniest one uh you guys
pulled it up on your
screen and you're like man these these harvard researchers must have snuck in
where they're
doing the psilocybin experiments and ate all the mushrooms
that cracked me up uh and i don't think we did oh i don't remember if we did i
don't think we did
but it definitely had elements of like these guys ate a lot of mushrooms which
was part of why it went
viral but there were some really solid arguments in there and the title of the
paper was scientific
openness to the crypto terrestrial idea that's all we were advocating for and
we listed four main ways and
which this crypto terrestrial idea could happen and the fourth one is what
really got clickbaity
because we were like maybe there is a breakaway civilization that's the crypto
terrestrial idea
but maybe an advanced reptile dinosaurs didn't go extinct and this was you know
we don't think this
actually happened but we're just putting out arguments for what this idea could
be and so yeah
they took that and put like dinosaurs at keyboards and stuff like that but but
one of them is time
travelers and it would make sense if you were in the future instead of jumping
back through time
in order to study people in a specific time you set up a base on the far side
of the moon
or up until the 60s 70s we wouldn't know they were there set up a base under
the oceans and this
would go for the extraterrestrial idea too instead of traversing the vast swaths
of space right come
here set up under the oceans where we're not going to find you right antarctica
far side of the moon
and then you can do everything here locally instead of having to jump across
space extraterrestrial
or jump across time extra tempestium well it also explains some of the very
strange ways
that they've observed crafts moving under the water like they've observed
crafts moving under the
water at 500 knots that are as big as a football field and apparently there's
video of these things
apparently there's you know the navy has something that they filmed that is as
big as a football field
that was going essentially 500 miles an hour underwater without any ripples not
disturbing the water at all
not creating a wake and then moving right out of them the transmedium capacity
yeah well you know when
you think about how little exploration excuse me exploration we've done to the
bottom of the ocean it's
we know more about the moon than we do about the surface of the the actual
bottom of the ocean yeah
yeah it would be a great place to hide out um and again you know the ability to
move in and out
of air water space upper atmosphere with no disturbances uh the transmedium
capabilities
that whole warped space-time bubble around them would help explain that too
that they're not
experiencing the water they're not experiencing the air as they move between
them like i always think
about i really love skiing and one of my favorite times to ski is is late
season you know it's april the
sun's out everybody's in t-shirts or bikinis or whatever i don't wear bikinis
but people do and you
get into that slushy stuff you're cruising down the mountain you hit the slush
and you just go
ass over kettle you know over the top of your skis and and that's what you know
we would expect
if they're moving in and out of air and water and and space is that there would
be some resistance
there's not you know they don't have that and it does indicate that there is
some sort of manipulation
of of space and time around them and and yeah moving underwater these football
field-sized craft
going that fast i mean how can you do that if there is actual resistance from
the water
well it just makes you wonder how much does the government know you know you've
seen that guy tim
burchett talk about it there's he's hilarious yeah it was very funny i mean he
was just casually
mentioning that there's five different locations in the ocean of the world and
the seas of the world where
they've observed crafts coming out of that's a very weird thing to just say
while you're walking
just casually talk about it and with such confidence yeah yeah i mean they're
they're doing these skiffs
they're talking to people behind closed doors uh-huh they don't have the same
requirement to not disclose
things as those people do you know they didn't sign nda's uh and he has a
hilarious way of talking
about it he's got the best one-liners of anybody discussing this stuff um i i
mean somebody knows
somebody knows a lot of things a lot of people probably know a lot of things
and have for a very
long time but you know what is that relationship what do they control why are
we not allowed to know
well this is the real question like what do they actually know about what's
going on in the ocean
like if there are bases somewhere down in the ocean there's that weird one the
baltic sea anomaly
i don't know with that one uh jesse michaels just did a show about it where he
interviewed the
guy who found it uh i think they're treasure divers and they found this very
strange thing that is
sitting on the floor of the ocean and it has right angles to it and it's it's
kind of curved there's
an actual uh i believe what kind of an image is of it but they have explored
this thing and he's
convinced that it's it's not a natural formation yeah interesting see if you
can find something on the
baltic sea put that into our sponsor is there an indication it's like uh that's
like a base it looks
like a millennium falcon what's wrong with my mouth today i can't say millennium
falcon like that's
what it looks like that's interesting so you know look this could be something
that's sitting on or it
could be something that was built at a time where this was not covered by ocean
yeah like you live in
montana montana used to be the great inland sea right yeah there was you could
find seashells in montana
which is really weird yeah and even all along the coast of alaska like there
was about 110 foot
rise in sea level over the last 12 000 years so what look more images of this
thing like what what is
that thing yeah and these are all artistic renditions some of them are but the
other one that blue one
that you see there that's the real thing that's what it actually looks like
yeah it's pretty anomalous
right what what is that though is that an ancient structure that people built
you know 20 000 years
ago like what is it baltic sea anomaly is a sonar detected sea floor formation
in the northern baltic sea
found in 2011 by swedish ocean x formerly ocean explorer team during a treasure
hunting expedition
most geologists who have examined the available data consider it a natural rock
formation shaped by
glacial processes despite ongoing popular speculate speculation about ufos or
artificial origin
yeah it's tough man there's that thing off the coast of malibu too is it malibu
or is it a
catalina island was that one thing where it was in google earth and they blurted
it out after a
while i think that's just a google earth thing maybe maybe not but but it was
on google earth and then
now it's blurred i read work where they're getting the data from google earth
you know like where that
what is that data you know not to take a picture so it was like bad data i
think so and then it cleared
up okay also that's a good answer i did a good answer for the government i did
a talk in um manhattan last
year um and tim gallaudet was one of the speakers and he was showing images of
i think what you're
talking about where there was like this sort of almost like a cliff underwater
and then had some
strange things around it yeah it had been modified or i didn't i don't remember
exactly what he was
saying but i think that i think that's what you're talking about yeah that was
just off of catalina island
that's right yeah it was very weird looking and a lot of people were speculating
the one of the
reasons why it's very weird there's a lot of sightings of a catalina island
there's a lot of
sightings out there yeah and it you know again it makes sense if they were
trying to covertly study
us regardless of their origins ultra-terrestrial extraterrestrial whatever um
use the oceans perfect
perfect base it's very difficult especially if you can move in and out of there
with impunity not just
because we won't see them but they have the technology to make the water and
the air the same thing click
on that image where the cursor's at yeah so that's it that's it whatever that
is like that looks real
weird it does look weird that looks real weird whatever the hell that is that's
so strange that's so
strange looking but again that's like is that what it really looks like what
are the new images is the
new one on the right okay that's it right there like what the hell is that it's
got pillars
i mean that's very strange it has those sort of uniform shaped pillars yeah and
the top looks very
flat you know like something you would make to withstand the weight of the
water above you like
a garage door yeah like it's a garage door to a base yep no i mean again when i
started out in
this i was relatively conservative with my views on things but man the further
you go down this rabbit hole
just the weirder shit gets and you can't do that anymore you've got to
recognize that there's a lot
of things that just you can't write off you know the impossible become possible
or at least you have to
open your mind to the fact that these things you used to think were impossible
need a second look
right and then there's also the the people that work in military intelligence
that work with these
defense contractors that say there's black black operations like operations
that are completely
top secret that are 30 years ahead of anything that you can imagine right now
so you go okay well
what does that look like what is 30 years ahead of us now look like yeah like
that was sr 71
the black bird or whatever it is black whatever um yeah like we didn't even
know about that until
20 years after they had made it right and it makes sense you know you don't
want your enemies
to know and that's an argument that's been made over and over that we can't
disclose things because
then our enemies will have this of course and i always thought growing up that
you know it'll take
a war before they're like oh we need to use these things we've been developing
like we're getting our
ass kicked in this war it's time to bring out the ufos and our laser weapons
and stuff but
i i kind of think it's going to happen before that so it's it's weird to say
but i kind of get the
sense that it is happening there's been a lot of false horizons people have
been saying that for a long
time but that doesn't feel different i mean it definitely does feel different
it definitely
feels um that the general public is a lot more open to the concept without
being thought of as a
fool right it it used to be when i was a kid if you'd bring up ufos people just
roll their eyes
especially before the internet oh my god if you brought up any of that stuff
they would laugh at
you i was reading some book on roswell once like i think it was in the 1990s
and you know this guy's like
what the are you wasting your time on this complete horse for there's no such
thing as ufos i'm like
how do you say that with such confidence like we live in a galaxy with hundreds
of billions of scar
stars just in this galaxy with hundreds of billions of stars in other galaxies
and there's hundreds of
billions of other galaxies like what are you saying that's crazy to say that we
are the only ones it is
they did a really good job at making us feel like idiots yeah well you can see
how that can be done
you know i mean look what they did during the covet crisis you know if you don't
get a vaccine make
your end of life preparations now you know like you're going to be killing
everybody no one's going
to survive this this disease targets the unvaccinated and people believed all
that i think the two are
related too because we started to figure out that we've been lied to about ufos
and the obvious
question is what else what else were they lying to us about yes well i think
once we realize how
strong the propaganda machine is and how gullible people are oh yeah that's the
big one easily i mean
if people were going to accept something as 100 truth uh any investigation or
any skepticism from the
pharmaceutical drug industry they are the most evil motherfuckers that have
ever lived they are
responsible for more death from releasing drugs that have horrible adverse side
effects that they knew
about they have taken the largest criminal fines of any companies i mean what
they've done is really
fucking creepy when you look at how they release drugs that they knew were
going to people over and they
knew those people didn't need those drugs and yet when you put people in a
scary situation and you make
them terrified and you offer up a solution they believe wholeheartedly that the
pharmaceutical drug
companies were only telling the truth and anybody who didn't didn't believe
they have your best
interests in mind so it's like that sheep mentality is so strong with so many
people there's so many
cowards in the world and so many followers that would just step in line the
moment things get weird
whenever they get challenged the moment things get weird but it just makes
sense that if you make it
like socially you you become a social pariah if you start talking about ufo
here's mike
with his wacky ufo theories like people don't talk about those things they don't
want to bring them
up and the military-industrial complex is kind of the equivalent of the
pharmaceutical companies on the
other side of this coin sure uh we you know we trust them they defend us
whatever they are making i'm sure
they'll use for great purposes but yeah i mean a big part of that was making us
feel like idiots for
talking about this stuff and that is changing though and it's not largely
because of you know
ancient aliens i've been on the show five times i had a little bit of cognitive
dissonance the first
time i went on that show goes they go way out they get out there man yeah and
they they totally just
fun it is fun you know and that's how i approached it well i also approached it
because i was trying to
talk about this theory they did this funny bait and switch for the first three
episodes i was on
where they're like hey come down talk about your theory i'm like okay so i'll
go to la or wherever
and we do the shoot they cut out everything about my books and this theory and
just used me to talk
about whatever the show was actually about little small snippets yeah i caught
on to that and so
the fourth time i went i was like all right but i'm only doing if you guys
actually you know but and
the one of the episodes was about this whole theory anyway so uh it made sense
but um i forget what
oh the stigma so one of the cool things that's been happening largely because
of uh ancient your
show you know you talk about this a lot and it helps normalize it for a lot of
people is that
there's a safe space now you know like where where you'll be talking about
these things and
somebody will come up who had a sighting when they were you know a teenager in
their 40s or whatever
and they never told anybody and now it's like wait it's safe to talk about this
and that's so cool to
see man and then it makes me realize just how many people have had an
experience that's been bottled
up inside it's liberating to let that come out and we're sharing information
and contactees too you
know unfortunately i started saying earlier we're still kind of stuck on this
is changing too but we're still
largely stuck on the cockpit videos and the fleer and the gimbal and the go
fast but people have been
taken into these craft they've had stuff put on their junk and their semen
taken you know like there's
a lot of no no square touching that happens anal probes you know and and we
used to laugh at that
but that is such a common theme throughout these and we need to recognize that
these people are having
real experiences and have been having them for a very long time let's move on
let's talk to these people
let's let the contactees and experiencers who have had the closest form of a
close encounter you can
have let's trust them now let's listen to what they have to say let's be discerning
you know but
let's keep an open mind well i think one of the more interesting things when
when you start talking
about stories and encounters one of the more interesting things is some of the
research that jacques valet has
done where he brings up stories that absolutely predate the modern cultural
visions of ufos like the modern
cultural concept of the close encounter of the third time kind type grays that
come down in a flying saucer
all those things like flying saucer didn't even come out until the kenneth arnold
experiences yeah so it's
these encounters people are talking about from the 1700s and the 1800s and they're
talking about
something coming down and something interacting with people and you know them
having some sort of
experience of lost time it's the thread is very common the betty and barney
hill story
yep yeah it's not just the gamete extractions i mean you you could make the
argument that
um a lot of things that happened in very mainstream religious texts were
exactly what people are
describing even the cia admitted that people like unexplainable pregnancies are
an aspect of the
phenomenon you know where jesus come from kind of an unexplainable pregnancy i
think jesus was time
traveler personally a time traveler yeah that's another aspect of that book
that's in your satire it's
in my satire book yeah uh i think oh you literally have jesus coming out of a ufo
i got some shit for
that with the double bird he's throwing up the double bird it turns out christians
don't like that
well you know can't please everybody right no you can't but there are many
aspects of jesus's life big
fan of jesus by the way um that are very paranormal a lot of these seemingly
miraculous things i think can be
explained with a lot of the same technologies that we see today we just didn't
have a way of
conceptualizing them obviously ezekiel is the one that gets talked about a lot
the wheel within a wheel
the telepathy the embers burning embers yeah um yeah and then you look at the
nephilim like uh and
all kinds of different mbaba juana resa this um story from zulu lore it's it's
a fucking alien
abduction man and they've been telling this story for thousands of years so it's
this this woman the
sky goddess who chooses a man to mate with and comes down tests him to make
sure that he knows that
it's her it appears in his dreams uh communicates telepathically gets him ready
for this interaction
he's in love with her never met her before she comes down from the sky and
takes him up with her
on this rainbow of light oh like all of the like and i made the case in my
second book that if um
antonio vias boas had been able to go back with the woman that he had sex with
it's basically the same
story hmm so this brazilian lawyer is telling a story that's identical to this
zulu legend that's been told for
for centuries millennia i don't know how far it goes back how weird but we need
to look outside of just
the the mainstream view which is finally happening so i'm i'm excited about
that i'm very grateful i
have a lot of gratitude about what's happening well the question is we can go
farther why did the
mainstream view become what it is and we know that that is because of a concerted
concentrated propaganda
effort yeah yeah and a very effective one i mean they nailed it but they had
there was no other
media back then they had complete control of newspapers complete control of
television stations
yeah i mean how many people how much do we know now about various news anchors
that were actually cia
agents there's a fucking shit ton of them yeah and even if they weren't they
were being force-fed this
stuff that they were happy to regurgitate absolutely yeah they just wanted to
look good and have a suit and
speak like an expert here we go and if you don't tow the line somebody else
will yeah and you're living
a great life you drive a mercedes yeah nice house why would you this up over a
ufo story just tell
your friends just tell everybody what you're supposed to tell them yeah it's
easy to get people to
comply like that especially when they're dependent upon you know whether it's a
corporate entity like
cnn or whether it's new york times or whatever it is it's it's not hard to get
people to comply
no and you're right since the internet things have changed radically um like
one really radically
radically but i think there's a downside too we're we've already kind of been
moving toward a post-truth
existence good lord man like i'll scroll through videos on twitter now 90 of
them are fake oh there's
so much ai now it's so ridiculous so crazy i make the unfortunate decision to
go into the comments to see
what percentage of people think it's real 80 90. i would say at least 90. it's
insane like i just i
have it still have it on my phone it's a stupid video of a rabbit like nursing
that's little rabbit
babies and one of them is a cat so the mom cat comes in picks the baby cat up
by the nose like they're
magnetically attached it doesn't even grab it like they just the baby kind of
comes with it and then walks
out the back of the burrow like there's no back to a rabbit burrow you know and
everybody's like oh
whoops that cat made a mistake it's drinking from the wrong species people don't
see it they don't see
that this is very obviously fake and it's it's not just for that like they're
using it for propaganda
they're using it for the same type of thing that they've used forever oh well
this ufo phenomenon's not
real because ai made this video well there's also the problem with what
percentage of people that are
even commenting are actual people exactly there's a huge amount of bots that
are communicating on all
the social media platforms a giant percentage of the comments are not real
people that's a really good
point yeah no you're right so they would comment on anything and just say wow
that also still feeds
the perception that it's real yes because other people that maybe don't have
great critical thinking
skills or discernment because you know their 90 year old grandma that doesn't
know how to use a computer
she sees that oh it's cute i think it erodes the consensus intelligence yeah
like the can like the
the overall level of intelligent discourse that a society puts out you know if
you have a town square
which is like twitter is our town square right if that town square is populated
by fake people like
enormous percentage populated by fake people that are just designed to say the
most inflammatory
ridiculous things to get interaction and engagement and also to erode people's
faith in other people
and to make us argue with each other construct the other like you were saying
at the beginning of this
conversation it fuels tribalism yeah it's it's really problematic my my hope is
that eventually
there'll be some way to accurately discern and it'll stop that stuff from
happening you know that you'll
be able to tell like very clearly whether or not it's an actual person the
problem is that if that does
happen it's a gateway to digital id because you would have to lose your anonymity
because if if you're a
like anonymity is very important for whistleblowers like say if you work for a
corporation you find out that
corporation is dumping stuff into a river and it's all secret it's illegal and
you know that if you tell
they're going to kill you you know and you're an executive of that corporation
your conscious is
troubled you can make a fake account you could sign up through a vpn you can
make a fake account and
you could post all this information that you know and you could break a story
and you don't face any
consequences you don't get killed yeah if you have digital id if we know who
everybody is that's
posting something and you make that same post who knows what they do to you who
knows what happens
yeah and it's been happening there's there's been whistleblowers who have had
mysterious deaths
all over a long time all over the place um yeah it's it's didn't gary webb didn't
he shoot himself in
the head twice was that the story what's the one tim burshed always says get
shot and or you shoot
yourself in the back of the head four times or something yeah i mean i think it's
in reference
to that how did gary webb die
yeah there's but even if that's not true there's a bunch of stories about
whistleblowers who go missing
yeah there's so many examples if you're inconvenient you're going to cost them
billions of dollars and
they can just get rid of you they just get rid of you whoever they are yeah it
all comes down to
money and it has for a very long time was uh deciding if this was accurate they
found in the
case where someone shot themselves in the head eight times oh that's a lot
there's a couple cases where
it's not boy that's a commitment i mean i guess if it was like an airsoft gun
or something
i don't think that killed me a really inefficient way to kill yourself yeah the
whole thing's crazy
do you think it's even possible to kill yourself with an airsoft gun maybe like
a lobotomy kind of
if you shot yourself up the nose eight times that's not that fast that's not is
it i mean it might
the brand of co2 cartridge infection oh that's see so you could i guess if you
got enough airsoft
bullets in you just fills up your entire nasal cavity never went to the doctor
maybe eventually
get an infection i think somebody might intervene at that point when i was uh
living in la when i first
moved there a guy had killed himself accidentally on a set because he took a
gun that was a blank gun
and he shot himself in the head like trying to be funny and it killed him
because the force that
comes out of the gun is still extremely powerful and he put it to his temple
and he literally caved
his skull in that sucks yeah that's rough yeah that was just an actor who just
didn't know any better
and he thought he was just going to be funny yeah so shoot yourself in the head
twice highly unlikely
eight times but i guess you could shoot yourself in the head once and just
really it up but
be aware that you're still alive and be committed to doing it and then shoot
yourself a second time
i guess it's possible i mean unless the pain response was like yeah it didn't
feel good
right i don't want to do that again or maybe the pain response is so bad you
want to do it again
oh that's a good point yeah like whoops let's get this over with i don't know
but our point what
we're getting at is that for the longest time there was no real outlet to get
true information out other
than books and books are so easily maligned you know if someone has a kooky
book you read it and go
oh that guy's nuts that that is a conspiracy theory and then of course that
term's popularized during the
jfk assassination because that very reason there was a lot of people that doubted
the official
story and those people became conspiracy theorists have you looked into that
much oh yeah i kind of
thought you that who do you think did it i think there was a lot of people i
think here's a mistake
that people make they say lee harvey oswald acted alone or lee harvey oswald
wasn't involved
and he was a patsy lee harvey oswald shot a cop they're they're really there's
like very few people
that disagree on that i think it's officer tippet i think that was his name uh
when he was on the run
so lee harvey oswald absolutely seems to be some sort of an intelligent asset
in some way or another
married a russian woman lived in russia for a while came back to the united
states during the time of
the whole i mean this is right after the red scare the fact that this guy went
to russia married a
russian woman came back and like the whole thing's screwy he could have been a
patsy and involved too yes
right absolutely i heard some theory once about like the driver turned around
with some that's
a horse gun or was there something about like a poisonous fish horse that's all
horseshit that's
why i was asking because i don't know well there's a lot of those one of the
best ways to make a
conspiracy theory seem absolutely ridiculous is to add a bunch of really silly
ones into the mix and so
that any conspiracy theory involving something that's not the official
narrative but there's just so many
aspects of the kennedy assassination the back and to the left the head shot the
shot in the neck from
the front the magic bullet which is preposterous is the most preposterous there's
a lot of them
there's a lot of these weird aspects to it and it's also the fact that kenny
was very hated also the
fact that um you know it's in dealie plaza which is like why would you ever
drive someone through there
in a convertible that's the president that's a very you know any president is
pot you know we think of
jfk was the most loved president bright by half the country that's how it
always is folks there's
always half the country that thinks you suck and half the country that loves
you that's how it was
with clinton that's how it was with obama so it is with everybody yeah no we
don't tend to agree on
those things there was a lot of people that were very happy when he died
including dulles so dulles
was fired by jfk and then was on the warren commission invent investigating jfk's
assassination
which is hilarious it's kind of crazy richard nixon also in the warren
commission the warren
commission there's a great book on it uh called best evidence by david lifton
and he was an accountant
that was hired to do something uh with the warren commission some something
some aspects of the
war commission so he decides to read the whole thing it's a huge amount of
pages i forget how
many pages are in the warren commission report i think it's at least 900 pages
so he reads the whole
thing and after it he comes this conclusion like there's so many inconsistencies
there's so many
contradictions there's like this this doesn't make any sense like they were
trying to reach a
conclusion so many of the witnesses that saw the assassination died in very
weird deaths
right the statistical possibility or probability of all those people dying from
murder or suicide
car accidents you know it's just too weird it's too weird what about the ufo
connection like that's the
one i hear i don't know because there are like cia ties and i don't know i don't
know what's
bullshit and what's not you know like yeah there was clearly like we had the
technology for 20 years at
that point but yeah what what does a president even know i i don't know what
they know i don't know
whether or not they would kill him for that that doesn't make any sense that
doesn't make any sense
you know the nixon story with uh jackie gleason huh no i don't think you don't
know that story
the story is that jackie gleason and nixon were drinking one day and uh you
know they were friends
and nixon was like i want to see a fucking ufo they get in a plane and he took
him to was it right
patterson jamie do you remember i think it was somewhere in florida but i don't
i they i remember
when we looked this up they said there's he went somewhere i'll look it okay so
anyway um supposedly
sees this recovered craft and bodies that are in freezers so jackie gleason one
thing's true about
this he became obsessed with ufos that is true and and it'd be hard not to
after something like that
yeah there's definitely a catalyst i'm mad i mean dude right now someone took
me if trump called me up
i'm gonna see some and all of a sudden i'm standing in front of some craft that's
made of this unknown
alloy and especially some of the weirder stories where you have a craft that's
like 40 feet wide
you go inside of it's bigger than a football field that's wild so here it is uh
nixon arranged for him
to visit homestead air force base in florida upon his arrival armed guards took
gleason to a building
at a remote location on the site there gleason who harbored an intense interest
in ufo saw the embalmed
bodies of four alien beings two feet long with small bald heads and big ears he
was told nothing
about the circumstances of their recovery he swore his wife to secrecy but
after the divorce beverly
freely discussed the story in the mid 80s ufo ufologist larry bryant sued the u.s
government to
get it to reveal its ufo secrets he tried without success to subpoena gleason
wow i want to subpoena
gleason yo that's crazy i mean he could just plead the fifth the whole time oh
yeah i was drunk i
don't remember anything yeah exactly yeah i mean how would you know but the but
gleason built a house
in upstate new york oh yeah i heard about that that looks like a ufo right isn't
it for sale right
now it is right now yeah we thought about buying it i did i looked that up one
time i don't remember
why but it's it's kind of kind of cool yeah it's kind of cool but the problem
is if we bought it
everybody would know that that's ours yeah true like oh joe rogan's got the ufo
house to clean
and then they'd visit and yeah fuck up my vacation that's true that's always
bound to happen i remember
that's the house very gold look at the house i mean come on man that's pretty
sweet that's
fucking crazy something happened he was he was there was a catalyst involved in
his interest well i mean
if you're friends with nixon and this is in the 1960s and this all this stuff
is yeah i saw an
interview with barry goldwater where he was talking about dope house by the way
talking about asking uh
asking some commander general about what's it right pat and i guess he just cussed
him out
barry goldwater he was like never fucking ask me that again yeah really yeah he
cussed out barry
goldwater he was uh yeah i don't think he was ever president candidate right
but yeah no they there's
people that don't want us to know the the big thing going around now is that
dick cheney was the ringleader
of all of this the deep state the ufo secrets the the gatekeepers wow he had to
know of course that
guy had to know kissinger too probably like the legacy programs these are
legacy people well someone
has got to talk right but it's like but at to what level and the idea here's
here's the really erroneous
idea that a lot of people hold people can't keep a secret of course they can of
course they can especially
when their life's being yeah of course they can especially if i mean there are
certain programs
that if you disclose the existence of this program it is considered treason and
they are allowed to
execute you for that so you have to take that into consideration i would keep a
secret if that was the
case of course then you have to take into consideration the immense amount of
money and this is discussed
really um very comprehensively in the age of disclosure documentary i think
they did a great job
of highlighting the whole problem with the misappropriation of funds so someone
had a lie to congress if
they have these back engineering programs if they've been spending as much as a
trillion dollars over the
course of x amount of years yeah where's where's that money and who lied and
who who benefited from it
what military contractors were allowed to have this stuff to back engineer it
what process has taken
place to shield the american public from that and what profits have they made
from that that it made them
like much more like anti-competition against other military contracts which is
another reason to keep the
secret too it's not just you might get killed but there's a lot of profit
potential in this and we
don't want our competitors also a lot of fraud i'm sure yeah like with any no
oversight at all
and a shitload of money money oh my god yeah it's there's not a chance in hell
that there wasn't some
money that went into people's pockets human nature takes over and people are
like well i could just
keep some of that yeah nobody's watching the till yeah i mean look we're
finding that with things just
like black lives matter it was massive fraud like just like just non-profit
organizations oh yeah
like i don't i don't want to start shitting on ngos or anything but that's a
big reason why i don't give
money to i'll find you know smaller organizations doing thing on a local level
but yeah local level stuff
you can trust yeah absolutely you get big enough it's just that happens yeah
and of course if you're
talking on trillions of dollars black money that nobody's tracing and i mean
that was one of david
grush's arguments too is that these whistleblowers are exposing crimes you know
fraud potential murder
that happened to keep these secrets so yeah it's a complex it's a very nuanced
situation that will
we will have to move past if we are going to have disclosure in some capacity
however that happens i mean
amnesty has been talked about yeah some people that was in the documentary that
was this the road out of
this which totally makes sense to me look what is really important the fraud
has already taken place
if people are prosecuted for the fraud guess what if we don't release it they'll
never be prosecuted for
the fraud anyway yeah and what's the alternative we wait until they die and
then talk about it i would
rather just give them amnesty now and then let them die without these secrets
going to their deathbed with
them but just not only that if they're misappropriating funds they're not just
doing it 30 years ago they're
doing it last week so now the current people also have an incentive to not
disclose yeah unless you
have mass amnesty just say listen let's just forget about all this stuff then
the problem with that is
all those people that are profiting off of it right now and also funneling
money into whatever ngos they
have and and misappropriation of money yeah and embezzlement what do we do with
that ip too like
the intellectual property that say north grumman or whoever has uh boeing like
do we share that now
do they have to give that up and spread it across the industry yeah it's all
weird man it's very weird
because there's been a few inventions that came about after roswell that a lot
of people say like
this does not make any yeah fiber optics is one transistor is another one yeah
this is a lot of
weirdness people say oh there's a direct and people scientific research it
shows how they made it yeah
but there's not if you go into it it's it's like there's a giant leap that gets
made that's real
weird i mean i'll take more leaps man like like honestly these craft would be
empowered by something
that's very very energized you know yeah and if we could use that to i mean i'm
i pay a lot
in utilities bills i don't i was gonna talk about like climate change or some
shit and then i made about myself and my utility you could have your own zero
point energy generator
in your backyard never have to worry about power again never have to worry
about the grid 90 you
know as many christmas lights as i want yeah never worry about the grid the
grid doesn't exist
anymore doesn't exist i mean imagine that from an infrastructure level and
there's so many
implications and if it's real if it's real if you think it's real right you're
convinced i'm
convinced it is yeah i mean it makes sense there's so much energy trapped
within the space between
you know like that's that's what it is even at zero degrees try to explain if
you can try to explain
the concept of zero point energy man that's beyond my pay grade other than that
i know that it is
infinitely times more energetic than what you get when you split an atom or
fuse atoms together the
nuclear force my understanding again very limited knowledge is that even when
you take
a molecule particle whatever and you freeze it down to zero degrees there's
still energy inside of that
and there's energy at a sub-quantum level that if we could tap into that it
would provide infinite
energy the downside is it would also make a bomb that is much much more
powerful than the biggest hydrogen
bomb because you're releasing that energy in a way that's irresponsible there's
this quote going around
by eo wilson uh famed biologist on i think i saw it on twitter that was like we
have um prehistoric
emotions medieval institutions and god-like technology basically saying we're
fucked yeah because we've got
we're like little kids playing with chainsaws you know um but but zero guns
little kids playing yeah
exactly but zero points kind of that next thing like when einstein equals mc
squared you know there's
all this energy and mass and if we you know split these atoms combine these
atoms we can release that
energy sweet but hundreds of thousands of people died in japan you know right
right so what's what's the
the flip side of zero point like it would definitely unlock a lot of potential
but are we responsible
enough as a species to handle that type of energy right currently no eo wilson
says no and i'm on board
with anything well i'm on board with it just look at what's happening in ukraine
look at what's happening
in gaza look what's happening there's gaza is full-scale war scary shit it's
happening right now
in various parts of the world where you know we're just yeah blowing people to
smithereens and you
know what that's kind of an interesting argument about the um the whole time
travel thing you know
there's these genocides there's genocide happening now in gaza blows my mind
that we can still have
genocides and just not do anything about it but like pol pot you know three
four million people killed
the holocaust darfur but but these aliens don't seem to care about us it was
something that john
mac noticed um he wrote about it a lot they're really focused on the earth you
know they care
about this planet they don't necessarily care about us as individuals as a
species well clearly they care
as a species but they do kind of care as individuals the people that get picked
up are oftentimes obviously
there's cases where this this doesn't happen but they're cared for they're told
no harm will come
to you you know um uh barney hill was told that it's it's a common commonly
repeated thing so they
take care of people they give us screen memories to try to hide what they did
they sometimes give people
tours of the ship they seemingly care about us as individuals but not when we
start murdering each
other on a massive scale they've never intervened in these things right however
they have demonstrated
their ability and willingness to shut down nukes they might intervene if we
move to the point where
we're not just destroying ourselves but we're destroying the planet that they
may also call home in the
future if they are future humans that whole care for the planet take care of
the plant they told the
kids in zimbabwe they told the kids in wales during this other incident they
tell these contactees all the
time take care of the plant take care of the planet but they don't seem to care
about us
and it might actually benefit them if we don't screw up this planet either
through nuking ourselves or
just all of the other things we do to it because we're kind of parasitic in a
way well also if they
are us in the future we probably have to go through all this to realize the folly
of our ways that's
a good point dark night of the soul kind of yeah i mean clearly we're getting
better i mean we're still
horrible but we're better today than we were during the viking days we're
better today than we were
during the time of genghis khan yeah but we're we're better we're more civilized
we're more peaceful
there's less war even though there's still war so it's a slow gradual shift of
consciousness that
probably is going to be accelerated by technology especially if there is some
sort of a technology
that connects us telepathically and allows people to read minds one of the
things that elon famously
said about his neural link he's like you're going to be able to talk without
words yeah i had a whole
section in my first book about that the question of whether it's a technology
mediated brain-to-brain
communication or if there's something about our consciousness that allows us to
communicate
telepathically without some sort of technology and i kind of i did that my
friend jeff jeff
crapel pointed this out he's like i see why you did that you know you're like
well what if it is
technology and there's a lot of studies that have shown we can communicate
through some sort of
computer medium but so many people in contactee cases who are spoken to or can
speak to the visitors
telepathically don't have that there's also all of the research of dean radin
at ions and all of his
other studies that he's put out that show people have telepathic abilities with
very very strong p-values
statistically showing that we have this ability i think a lot of people have it
and just don't realize
but it does seem like we're moving in that direction like you were talking
about the evolution of
consciousness it seems like we're sort of moving to that whether neural link
has anything to do with
it or any sort of computer mediated brain-to-brain transmission i think we're
just becoming telepathic
and unlocking these abilities that have always sort of lied dormant within us
yeah i've often asked the
question is it one of two things is this a new emerging aspect of human
consciousness or is this an aspect of
human consciousness that exists before verbal speech and then verbal speech and
then of course the
written word video all that stuff yeah we it just became completely non-useful
to us it's like we lost
it and we're trying to get it atrophied yeah yeah i mean you had kai dickens on
uh the telepathy tapes
were hugely impactful yeah and and a lot of those episodes show that this is
actually extremely common you know
and it and it seems like that's kind of where we're going i look at that as
another indication that
these are us in the future that their main form of communication is telepathy
and we're already
seemingly moving in that direction what do you make of the tridactyl mummies in
peru can we pee first
yeah okay i'll do that right now sweet we'll be right back folks go to um jay
anderson's uh x page
it's uh project unity yeah i saw he's coming on soon yeah he so jay anderson
just released this and
jesse michaels actually went down to peru and actually saw those things and
handled them in
person in person in person and he said it was surreal he said they are real
creatures whatever they were
it is a real thing and they look exactly like an alien he has a video that he
just released jamie i
think it's a a video that he's releasing um on um
that's it right there uh so scans reveal this ancient alien looking mummy has a
baby inside of her
that's well that's one of them
so these things like whatever this is we get volumes you can hear what he's
saying
she has slightly smaller stature and slighter build the maria but shares the
same natural
mummification with skin covering parts of the body her skull is elongated with
large eye orbits and
cranial volume comparable to maria's importantly montserrat ct scans reveal
that she was carrying
in her abdominal cavity the team identified a developing fetal form being
visible
on the scans a tiny tridactyl embryo with skeletal structure curled in a womb-like
space this
confirms that montserrat was pregnant with at least one advanced fetus montserrat
also contains an
astonishing array of metallic implants at least 10 distinct metal implants
embedded into her body
these include four small round implants in her skull two on each side several
in her chest and thoracic
area and others along her arm and leg bones as per the ct images they're
described as very dense
and made of rare metals osmium and gold additionally montserrat's chest anatomy
is peculiar
she has an expanded rib cage without a sternum like the other tridactyls and an
interclavical bone
an extra bone at the shoulder girdle noted by researchers her spine is
continuous into the skull again
and demonstrated look at that cranio cervical canal look how crazy that has
been one of the
most deeply analyzed specimens high resolution 128 slice ct scans were
performed and a full 3d
virtual autopsy was conducted the scans confirmed montserrat's pregnancy with
tridactyl features
how strange is this like what is that and these are in peru the same place
where you get the nazca lines the same
place where you have saxo him on you have these incredible structures that defy
logic defy conventional
construction methods especially and like like the owl man you know the big petroglyph
on the side of the
hill that yeah only be appreciated from space there's a lot of weirdness there's
a lot of weirdness from
peru peru seems like a very extraordinary place and at one point in time um
well also the the ancient uh
artistic depictions of these exact beings there's these ancient tapestries and
ancient art pieces that
show these three-fingered three-toed beings and this is all like a part of
their folklore
and then you have these actual creatures like that thing is 1400 years old i
think it is
so if if that that's the carbon date on that mummy so i think it's that old
there's one that's 1200
i think the oldest one is like 1400 sounds right yeah something like that but
like whatever that is
like there's not a chance in hell that people back then had the ability to fake
that in that with that
depth you see tendon structures ligaments you have a completely different
skeletal structure
no sternum different clavicle bones it's fucking cranial facial anatomy three
fingers three toes
which is by the way exactly what lazar described i believe as or some people
have described as like
the control it might not be lazar the controls inside the crass that they've
observed that had
these three-fingered things virginia brazil those things had three fingers and
three toes
so the question is like they saw footprints too in that case didn't they yeah
well they
supposedly one of the soldiers carried carried a hurt and injured whatever it
is yeah there were
three women that saw it too like an alley or something yeah that's the moment
of contact
documentary very good very good james fox documentary it is i watched that with
james fox
crazy a pre before we released it we were at the same conference and crazy
documentary yeah it's
really good um but those things look exactly like that yeah we described it'd
be cool if they still
had eyeballs because they said they had red eyes right daco which would be kind
of crazy whatever these
things are they're they are the same size and in the same shape and they're
also that thing that
tridactyl thing what does it look like it was exactly like a gray it's small it
has a big head
it has big eyes it's very thin thin body like when you look at its body when it's
curled up in the
fetal position is no muscle it's very small there's definitely i mean there's
variation in within the
way these things are described unfortunately until we have like you know dude
got to go with nixon to
see these things in liquid that's like a wet dream of mine man i would love to
go see these things and
like study them as a biological anthropologist that would be the holy grail for
me
actually get somewhere that you could go right now on earth if you knew the
right guy that you see
that absolutely yeah i'm sure there's many many examples of these things i
would argue in multiple
places that i'm not allowed to go see and it makes me mad oh um but what is
your take when you see these
things right so i've always been outwardly critical of them except i guess the
question is which ones
and what do we mean by real like these are obviously real these are things that
aren't
a fairy tale i mean they make their way into the lore so we do have to take
that in the same way that
these you know ancient stories about things that are very similar to the ufo
phenomenon but this is an
actual physical that's what i'm saying that's what i'm saying this isn't make
believe this is a real
thing i have been highly critical of the little ones oh yeah there's some fake
ones yeah yeah but when i
first started talking about these those were conventionally understood to be
real too oh
really i got a lot of for that i actually retired from the mummy thing i'm
happy to come out of
retirement for you but i retired from the mummy thing because i was getting
trolled so hard
so aggressively i'm like i'm out i don't give a
by people that thought they were real yeah but they look fake the difference
between
see we all say that now we weren't saying that even three or four years ago oh
i definitely was
well yeah you look at them it's very obvious but a lot of people are like no no
these are so real
and that's why i have to sort of approach this cautiously because i i will
admit scientists don't
do this enough i will admit i haven't looked into those so i don't want to form
an opinion about
them until i have i have extensively looked into the small ones i forget what
they're called they
have cute little names and they're little dolls they're made out of animal
bones human bones
backward llama skulls they're put together i i've been looking at these long
enough that i remember
when they were held together by pieces of wire and metal like they didn't even
try to really hide that
you x-ray them like oh jesus christ you know but but then we moved away from
that to like oh they're
using better materials to hide the fact that they're sticking these together as
little dolls
and now fortunately we've at least moved past um to the point where most people
are just focusing on
these big ones uh with the fingers and the toes and the elongated skulls again
i don't want to speak to
those because i haven't looked into it enough i don't have an informed opinion
but the little dolls one
thing that that concerns me that i think is a red flag is that the little dolls
that are now
convention understood to be fake have the same diatomaceous earth
characteristics as these and
there's also i i think if they really want to prove these are real do more to
highlight the
provenience of them in archaeology the way that we understand the way things
are related is by
doing a massive as i mentioned earlier very boring survey of how things are
located in three-dimensional
space and over time i think there's a problem with that is that some of these
people have lied
about where they got them because they're essentially grave they're grave robbing
exactly and that's a big
problem and an ethical issue that needs to be addressed too but so like as an
example the rising star cave
homo nalidi uh they did you know lee berger who's actually i guess my um my
academic brother because
we had the same phd advisor he was at ohio state when he was my advisor and he
was at johannesburg uh
university of mr rogersrand in johannesburg for him um but this rising star
cave
very meticulously hard to get to you know really hard they had he had to lose
like 50 pounds to even
get down in here to see his own site but they map it out they study where
everything is where it comes
from and they publicly release that information yeah like this is extremely
hard to get into but we have
a very deep knowledge of the provenience of all of the artifacts and the
features and the remains at
this site we're not getting that with these mummies and that that troubles me
with the issue of the
diatomaceous earth being painted on and it kind of makes it seem like they did
these slits in the eyes
on purpose to the mummies yeah doesn't it seem like they kind of went like this
with like a pen let me see it again can i see some images of them
yeah yeah the bigger i never saw that um it didn't seem like that to me it
seemed like
there's a little slit that's their eyelids closed yeah but they wouldn't have
eyelids with them
well how do we know that i mean you take off the diatomaceous earth and you see
i guess right but
why would we think they don't have eyelids oh no i'm saying that maybe they do
when they were alive
well i mean we see greys or what you know people describe as greys but these
seems a little bit
different than what people describe as greys it seems like i mean it's
definitely intentional cranial
modification they have all the telltale signs of yeah so i actually one of my
questions on my
general it's not possible that they have a totally different design skull oh
yeah if there are some
sort of extraterrestrial absolutely right but i'm saying like when and then
this happens all over the
world and it happened in that region of peru too that they were manipulating
children's skulls the maya
did unique fingerprints look at that yeah like i said i don't have an opinion
about these but here's
the question there's just some red flags for the modification of skulls were
they modifying skulls
to try to emulate these people exactly these things that's the question that's
that's one of the actual
scientific explanations for it there's this paper by geertsen and geertsen from
1995 where they
interviewed people said why why are you doing this because they were still
doing it long enough into
modern times that we could ask them we could interview them and one of the
reasons is because the gods
instructed them to do this who are the gods you know again this comes back to
that and and what is the
end result of this intentional cranial modification is that they have the
larger more gray alien type
skull so yeah i would absolutely agree that that's probably a part of it um i i
i don't have an
opinion about the big ones the little ones pissed me off and then everybody
pissed me off more when i
told them they were we should show people yeah for context because they do look
so fake yeah and
they brought these out at that you know mexican congress and the guy who
brought it out had been
hoaxing with other things right didn't he have a history she's got a little
dress on
and these are an extreme version there's some other ones that look a little
better yeah but they do look
fake when i look at that i'm not interested in that exactly and that's what i
was calling out back
you know five years back down a little bit jamie um below the tridactyl till
you get to that one
right there like the the one next to your cursor to the right yeah that looks
so rigid and stiff and fake
that's one of them like why is it so straight and flat like that doesn't make
any sense why is
its shoulders built like that looks fake as it looks like a doll there's but
the tridactyls now
click an image on one of the tridactyls i mean these were called tridactyls too
that's why
right but look at that thing that's weird that has an anatomy that's much more
consistent with a living
thing yeah one of the criticisms was that these things couldn't move like that
little doll with the
straight rib cage like the the legs which we can identify as specific animals
they're like flipped
around they're just stuck together like these things couldn't walk there's a
form follows
function aspect of these that just doesn't make any sense and the list goes on
i actually in that
crypto terrestrial paper where we broke in and ate all the mushrooms i actually
published a critique
of these things in that paper um but just talking about these little ones i
think those little ones
were people trying to make copies of those things because they were probably
selling them to wealthy
investors or wealthy you know enthusiasts because like if one of those things
were for sale and some
guy from saudi arabia was like i want one in my home and you know he gave them
a hundred million
dollars like for sure that thing would vanish and then everybody's going to
find out and start making
more right there's of course that's why you make the little stupid fake ones
and unfortunately that did
lead lead to grave robbing um right which is a crime and really sad but it
shouldn't desecrate graves for
sure but there's also such a small amount of excavation that it makes you ponder
like how many of these
are there right now that we have not discovered like what is is it possible
that this is one of many that are
out there in peru right now where you can't find them and also why peru and why
why the nazca lines the nazca lines are
absolutely fascinating it's artwork that you can only see from the sky like
what motivation to people
a thousand plus years ago at least have to make artwork that you can only see
from the sky yeah and
especially if you i mean the the obvious thing would be that they're trying to
get these advanced
beans that make them come uh come down from the sky and like interact with them
again yeah like who
wouldn't a lot of a lot of contactees are really upset about what happens willie
streber is a great
example this goes for a lot of people but he felt violated he felt raped the
first time and then over
time he missed them and wanted them to come back and that's what we find over
and over one of the best
resources currently is the dr edgar mitchell free study that interviewed
thousands of contactees and
abductees and there's these common themes across these different cases and and
one of them is that
people 85 percent of people who interacted with a more human-like entity
enjoyed their experience and
that's another thing that we have to combat with the stigma and this forced
shame that comes with talking
about this and what has happened in tv and movies over the years is that we
have this sense that
abductions are horrifying and everyone's picked up and probed and hurt and that
does happen
but most people based on what contactees actually say it was a benign or
enjoyable experience well
they're probably terrified because it's so strange it probably freaks you out
it's the ontological shock
aspect oh it has to then what they also found is that with repeated contact
once that ontological
shot goes away it's like whoa that was kind of cool actually i wish i could
have more of that like
that makes sense and and then people come to enjoy it you know that makes sense
i you know i talked
about this on jesse michael's show i talked about it here i had a very strange
interview by the way
thank you it was cool i love jesse he's awesome he's awesome and he's the best
can we talk about
your dream too that's what i was just going to talk about oh no yeah that's why
i said i talked
about it on jesse and i talked about it here that that dream was the most
realistic dream i've ever
had in my life it is a problem and that dream was a couple months ago now and
um i think any
recounting of that dream is essentially me recounting my recounting of the
dream it gets weird um but
what i do remember was it was the most vivid dream i have ever had in my life
and that i could not go
back to sleep which is really rare i am i am a good sleeper i i'm always go go
go and by the time it's
time to go to bed i fucking crash i'm i'm easy so for me to not be able to go
back to sleep was so
strict i mean wide awake just lying in bed i mean fully awake for an hour and
waiting for it to dissipate
and i'm like this isn't going away i'm just going to go work out so i just went
to the gym and just
tried to like think about like what just happened why did that why was that so
real one of the things
about it was they were shocking me and then laughing they were trying to relax
me they were trying to get me
to at least my perception of it in the dream was they were trying to get me to
calm down
from the shock of interacting with these things that aren't human they were
human like they almost
seemed like their skin coloration was like like us but like maybe a little more
tan like a little more
like not tan but like a yellow um yeah more yellow than tan and they had it
looked like clothing but the
clothing was the same color as their skin but the clothing clothing wasn't
distinctive it's like almost
like a rash guard that they were wearing and they were very slender and uh what's
a rash guard a rash
guard is like what surfers wear you know like they wear it's like um a stretchy
material that's skin
tight that goes on your body and it keeps you from getting scratched up by
stuff keeps you from getting
rashes you know you wear it on your legs you ever see surfers do it jujitsu
guys wear it when they
roll okay we wear rash guards um so it's show them what a rash guard looks like
and that's they had a
whole suit of that um that's what it looks like yeah so that's a jack guy with
a rash guard on
these things were not jacked and there was no creases there was no there was no
lines that indicated
that was cloth but they had a humanoid form like arms yes but very thin very
thin like michael jackson
like like super slender like genderless michael jackson like the old days okay
that when he
you know toward the end just really thin yeah like really thin and i i had no
sense of what they felt
like men to me uh maybe it was because the way they were joking with they were
like ah and they're
like yeah just joking around which is a very male thing you wouldn't expect a
it was nurturing female
maybe a fun chick yeah like woo but whatever it was they were talking to me
without talking to me and
there was some sort of communication that i was trying to absorb where they
were telling me to relax
and telepathically were they moving their mouths no they weren't moving their
mouth but they were able
to smile at me which is what they did when they but i don't remember i don't
even really remember teeth
i just remember it being so weird so weird that them them scaring me and going
ah just walking around
like was like i'm like i got it i was like okay i get it you want me to calm
down and then they were
telling me just relax just relax and try to take this in and it didn't last for
very long i don't think
dreams are hard but after that like when they were saying take this in were
they talking about being
there in the environment or were they communicating i got the distinct
impression that this was
a first meeting that's what it felt like okay like maybe we'll see you again
breaking down maybe we won't but i want to let you know that like if you wanted
to introduce someone
to a life form from somewhere else and you wanted them to have prolonged
exposure to it i would imagine
you'd want to do it briefly and shockingly where it felt really weird and then
at the end of it they're
not even sure if it really happened at all yeah and then slowly over a long
period of time
when the person gets to adapt and they make a decision it's time it's just like
what we were
talking about with the ontological shock get past that yes and then you can
move on with whatever
is because it was very brief very very shocking and very brief i mean was it
though because when when
you're in a dream state time and space kind of get manipulated anyway isn't it
possible that you are
actually interacting for a longer time or do you mean just from like start to
finish was like here we are
i'm gonna fuck with you for a little bit and then it's over well that's what it
felt like when i woke up
so when i woke up it felt like it happened so quickly and then it was over but
i don't know you know
i don't know i mean i was asleep for it was like three in the morning so i was
probably asleep for
i probably went to bed at like 11 something like that so i wasn't asleep for
very long um maybe i
went to bed a little later i don't remember but what i do remember was the
shock of it was it was
different than any other dream i'd ever had where it was like like this is this
is a real thing
this and it i was in a corridor and the corridor was weirdly lit like not lit
in any way like oh
there's a light and the light is casting light it was like the it was weird
walls and ceilings it was
felt not normal it felt like some completely different way of lighting things i
mean i will
mention just from doing a bunch of research on this that one of the most
commonly described things about
people being in ufos is the light they described the light emanating from
the walls the ceiling everywhere without like a point of light did it feel like
that exactly yeah yeah
but it almost was there a curvature to the hallway at all there was it almost
had like an organic aspect
to it it was people say that about ufos too oh really yeah that almost seems
like a living entity
unto itself yeah well i mean organic like almost like i was in a cave or
something like that it was a
part of earth it was weird it was really weird and it was really vivid like the
the beings were very
vivid i can't remember how many of them there were i think there was three or
four i don't think you
should write it off as just a dream like i mean well most likely it was just a
dream but what is
because i was sleeping what is just a dream that's the question that's where it
gets weird like i i have
come to think that that is almost the baseline real reality more than this oh
boy yeah sorry that's kind
of why i wanted to talk about it oh you just cracked me well maybe so i had a
really insane experience
in 2022 that forced me to start thinking about what this is what this physical
reality is because
i was shown 2022 i call it a mini abduction i was taken up uh i was at a ufo
conference actually the same
one or i was watching that with james foxx before it came out the virginia case
so i was taken up to
this room that no one was in i was taken on the balcony i wasn't allowed to
leave um by who a woman
who i i knew uh but loosely basically i was downstairs she saw or they saw
through her because this gets
really weird that i was out of money i was trying to get a beer at the bar for
like 12 bucks or whatever
they charge you with these things it was it was a halloween dance party this
was october 14th 2022
i was out of money she comes up and says hey i have a key to the vip room we
had just come down from
there where they hosted a meet and greet with the speakers i was one of the
speakers so we went up
there to get beers stuff in my pockets we're going to bring some to our friends
they didn't have to pay
12 for a beer and then she's like well you can't go my friend eric wants to
talk to you i was like
who's eric don't worry you'll like him just kept saying that over and over don't
worry you'll like
him you'll like him so at some point we end up on the balcony and i'm just
sitting i give up i'm like
fine i guess i'm just waiting for this eric guy whoever the hell that is so
eventually eric comes in
pulls his chair up right into me like his knee is in my dick like straight up
right here i start to get
that i'm very much fight and the fight or flight thing and i'm like you know
like who the fuck's
this guy total stranger never seen him in my life and he's his face is right
here he says i sense that
you're angry about this but i need to be this close for this to work and then
it just all went away
perfectly fine and they tell me something that was that same thing that they
did to you in that dream
something that they knew would shock me and make me pay attention so about two
weeks before this
i've been washing dishes and i just decided i wanted to quit all of this i was
sick of doing tv
shoots and podcasts i just i was exhausted and want to be home with my family
that's it that was just a
thought we just while you were washing washing dishes my wife's right behind me
didn't tell her
anything very next thing he says is we know you've been thinking about quitting
lately and we'd really
prefer you not do that yet complete stranger i'd never seen this guy in my life
and he knows a
thought in my head that you had while washing dishes from two weeks privately
and my i was just like
how could you possibly know that and they said i'm gonna use they because they
used they i wasn't
talking to this guy i was talking through some sort of tv show entity or
entities through him and they said
once you know who we are you'll know how we know that and i never had a telepathic
moment in my life
but i thought future humans that's all i could come up with because like this
is what i'm doing
they didn't answer the question but they did say so you know how we did that
and i just go
uh-huh it doesn't answer the question but in that moment it placated me enough
to move on
and there was a number of things that transpired we're out on this balcony
i'm in shock i'm like what the hell is going on here how does this complete
stranger know my thoughts
the conversation evolved i was allowed to ask questions they're like we know
you're frustrated
we know you're upset with this we'd really like you to keep going is there
anything you need is there
anything we can help with i was like no i'm quite happy in general just
exhausted i don't want to do
this anymore like yeah we get that we get that we get that and then i was
allowed to ask questions
i asked three different questions and people started to come back to this room
because the party was
wrapping up downstairs and they're starting to come back to the vip room where
all the free booze was
so that makes sense and we're out on this balcony these three women come out at
one point
and this man uh who now is like just right here like eyes right here i can't
move anymore like i lost
the ability to turn my head i'm just like laser focused said can you close the
door behind you that
was it and these three women turned in perfect unison walked back and closed
the door nobody came out
the rest of the time we were out there eventually got to the point where they're
like we came here because
we need to put three things in your brain for some future time or times i
forget which they said
um do we have your permission to do that and over the course of this
interaction i started to remember
them and i started to feel like a little bitch about complaining about being
tired traveling hotels
flights you know and i was like oh that's right i know you i know who you are
not that guy i'd never
seen him in my life but i know you and there's a familiarity and this was like
the breaking down of
me to be able to get past that to do the things that needed to be done they
told me what would
happen they said that i would continue looking my eyes would be open but this
darkness would come from
top to bottom and they would put things in my brain and i would see it coming
in but i wouldn't have
access to it once they were done do you agree they're very polite extremely
polite free will was
conserved do you agree to this are you okay with this and again at that point i
remembered them
i recognized them i was like yes absolutely i agree to this that's exactly what
happened eyes went dark
still wide open eyes went dark and i see this massive fast stream of
information just going straight
into my brain it was exhausting it it didn't hurt but it was like really
overwhelming i have no idea how
long they were doing this it was you see it playing yeah i could see it was
like i i could see i don't
i don't remember it but i could see and understand the moments because and it
wasn't just me like at one
point this conversation switched from being vocal to telepathic like we just
started communicating
telepathically it was so seamless that i didn't even really notice it happened
and eventually i'm like
wait we're not moving our mouths we're just talking with our brains but the
woman who brought me up there
in the first place was standing on my left with her hand on my shoulder she
would occasionally go did
you get that did you see that that was important did you get that so she was
watching it too
and saw it coming in as it was coming through this individual in front of me
and i could see it
at that moment i'd be like uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh like i understood it it all
comes in i have no idea
how long i was in that mesmerized state but after they finished that entire
room had five times more
people in it there was like probably 20 people in this room all looking at us
like what the
is happening to masters out there you know like what is going on they lifted me
out of this uh site
return from bottom to top the opposite of what happened before and i stand up
turn walk through
this room it felt like my head was a bowling ball like i could barely even lift
my head and this woman
i think one of the ones that came out when we were on the balcony uh put her
hand on my shoulder said
are you okay i'm just like uh-huh uh-huh walk past her fortunately i was on
that same floor on
the fourth floor of this hotel walked down lay back on the bed with my feet
still on the floor all my
clothes on and just slept in that position for about 13 hours what didn't wake
up at all and when i woke
up i started crying uncontrollably like my my i could not stop crying i wasn't
sad i wasn't scared i had
a memory of what happened the night before but it was kind of fuzzy and then as
it started to come back
more and more and more uh i started to be like oh shit like that that was real
you know my first thought
was like oh that that wasn't real and then i was allowed to remember all of it
everything before
they put me in that state is like crystal clear in my mind and i wrote it all
down um not long
after that just to make sure i had you know so so it wasn't me recounting me
recounting like you were
saying so there was actually like a written transcript of how everything
happened i should have
probably done that it is probably done that but i know that my recollection of
it is pretty accurate
my recollection of my memory and i know that it was very brief like would the
the encounter seemed
very brief it might have gone longer than i think it did well they might have
done the same thing to
you that's why i mention it they might have done the same thing where you weren't
necessarily
allowed to remember the things that were done like they told me that we're
gonna do this are you okay
with it and then missing time i have no idea how long they were doing that and
then in a dream state
like it could have been dreams often skew time regardless but maybe if let's
just say hypothetically
you were on a craft they were breaking you down in the same way they did me to
try to get you whether
now or in the future like you said it might have been an initial encounter
where there's something
more going to happen later but maybe there was more to it that they just didn't
let you have conscious
memories of like they told me i wouldn't remember what they put my brain and i
don't which is just
just a second this this is what blows my mind man it's fucking insane it's my
brain right they put
things in there the ability that they can even do that in the first place is
nuts but i don't have access
to it it's really wild how do you know it's in there then i watched it come in
right i know it went in
and they told me that it was going to come in and i saw it happen but then once
it's in right but does
that make any sense like think about it if they're giving you information what
is the point giving
someone information that they can't access well that's what they said though
they said for time or
times in the future it's it's time released it's time stamped at some point
whatever that was that
they thought was so damn important to many abduct me at this conference and
fuck with me for about
five months afterwards is going to come out at some point have you ever
considered the possibility
someone dropped acid into your beer yeah i have um because that would be such a
cruel thing to do to
someone at a ufo conference problem and then fuck with them and say sit down
look in my eyes i'm
going to give you information now you're like oh my god it's coming information's
coming it is problem
is i've done acid uh over 200 times so i know exactly what that's it was a
flashback that's what
they say that was the thing they always i never heard of one fucking person
getting a flashback by
the way i know i feel robbed dude like everybody crack our back and we're gonna
get a flashback when
you're driving your car man and you fucking run into a bus full of kids it's
like how they told us
everybody's gonna give us free drugs on the playground no nobody ever gave me
free drugs drugs no it was not
i had actually only had two beers the entire night i was completely sober so it
was some kind of
experience that was very anomalous extremely yeah and so here's another aspect
of it they knew my
future they knew everything about me they knew my thoughts that's how they
broke me down and they
even knew where i was going to be the next day they saw that it fucked me up
and i was not doing well
like i wasn't crying so sad or scared or anything it was just a physiological
response to whatever they did
i'm walking down uh through the the main corridor to give a book to a friend of
mine john dover navajo
ranger and that same guy comes around the corner comes down puts his hand on my
shoulder says are you
okay i was not okay but i go uh-huh and they fixed me somehow his touch on my
shoulder released all of
the whatever was messing me up they knew where i would be at that exact moment
for him to come there he
wasn't part of this conference he had nothing to do with this he was used as
some sort of vessel or
some sort of medium for this and whatever it means i don't know because the
things haven't come out
of my brain yet but there are time stamped for the future i completely believe
you it's not a belief
but it's not a belief they did it in a way where other people were involved so
i didn't even get to
pretend oh don what i'm saying what i'm saying is uh i'm saying i believe your
story from you i have no
information on it obviously other than you telling me yeah i believe you it
sounds like this is a real
experience but most people hearing something like this will automatically go
get the
fuck out of here and they did but i want those people to imagine what it would
be like if that
happened to you for me it's easy because mine was in a dream and i'll tell you
it's a dream i think it
was a dream it was the most vivid dream i've ever had but it was a dream it was
really weird i couldn't
shake it it really freaked me out i had to talk about it the moment i got on a
podcast next i was like
this is something that i have to bring up right away because it's just and
thank you for doing that by the
the way it takes bravery to talk about this but i was talking to brett weinstein's
evolutionary biologist
like it's not the topic to talk about but i'm like i have to tell you this
because it was
one of the weirdest things that i've experienced a lot of weird about a weird
life
that was the weirdest it was it was weird it took me a year to talk about this
i i went down let me finish here oh sorry i didn't know you were this is what i
for people that are very skeptical yeah i want you to imagine yourself in a
position where something
like this happens to you you're a regular guy you're a mechanic for chevrolet
whatever you are
and this thing happens to you and what do you do now what do you do with this
and who the is
going to believe you you wouldn't have believed you so why why would you you
don't even want to tell
people it's that crazy yeah and if these things are happening they're not
happening to seven billion
people right they're happening to select individuals for whatever unknown
reason all over the place
and if that is happening to one in a million one in a hundred thousand whatever
it is over time
these people have all these similar stories i i get being skeptical i get it i'm
a skeptical person
with a lot of stuff i protect i go back and forth i i'm a believer and then i'm
like shut up i'm with
you i'm with you but you gotta imagine what you would do if that happened to
you if these are unique
experiences that's a great point unique experiences totally novel experiences
that most people don't have
trying to describe them and everybody who i've ever talked to including travis
walton who's by the
way very believable yeah very believable they the way they describe it it it
has that weight to it like
i know no one's gonna believe me i know this is crazy but i have to tell you i
have to tell you that
this happened imagine being travis walton yeah that's what i want people to
think about the people that
are very skeptical i'm really glad you brought that up because a lot of people
don't think about that part how hard
it is not just to have some crazy shit like that happen but how hard it is to
then talk about it
and subject yourself to the ridicule and the scorn that comes with it of course
and the possibility
that you might just be some different disinformation artist just some
bullshit artist that's sent down here to muddy up the narrative absolutely
absolutely and if it hadn't
if i hadn't yeah i don't i have thought about that like what if you know there's
some sort
of mind control thing that the government has or whatever have you ever heard
the recordings of
betty and barney hill yeah yeah jamie see if you can find those yeah they're
kind of trippy trippy i
don't think that's the case in this situation because of the way it happened
how it happened their uber
politeness and the fact that i was allowed to leave my body and see and
remember things that i normally
wouldn't well also taken in the context of who you are the time we live in betty
and barney hill i
believe was in the 1950s they're an interracial couple in new england so they
have a lot of anxiety
just on that yeah imagine being a pioneering interracial couple in the 1950s
that i mean
the racism they must have experienced must have so the level of anxiety that
they must have slept
with thinking the kkk is going to show up at any point in time and burn a cross
on their lawn so
you've got all that too then there's a completely novel experience where no one
has talked about this
before two of the first people to ever talk about they are the ogs so this is a
tape of dr benjamin
simon and patient barney hill play this
it's right over my right
god
what is it
and
i tried to maintain control so betty cannot tell i am scared
god i'm scared it's all right you can go right on experience it it will not
hurt you now
i gotta get my gun
that's intense this is 1961
wild and like you say you know that's actually i haven't thought about that i
did a whole case study
on betty and barney hill in my second book i hadn't even really thought about
that like it's
already hard to talk about stuff they're the ogs they're the first one interracial
couple coming out
publicly describing these horrific events also these events in 1961 when no one
had heard anything
about so many compounding factors that make me want to give them even more
credit for for being honest
about it and and and i mean that's what that's what's important it was really
hard for me to talk
about this it really fucked me up for like i'm gonna say five months but it was
way more than that
and the reason i bring this up is because of your dream and the shock factor
and what it means for
conceptualizing reality this physical reality versus what we write off as being
dreams a dream reality
i have come to think that that is baseline that consciousness is fundamental it's
foundational and
this physical reality is built off of it and i've heard a lot of other
scientists talking about
that lately so i think one of the questions that gets me is why does everything
dream everything
every living organism dreams and it almost seems like we're here for the
universe to learn about
itself and to have these experiences because in source there's nothing there's
just love and energy
that's it and i've gotten to experience that i was thinking in the shower the
other day that i feel
lucky because i've gotten to have near-death experiences without actually dying
because it's a very
similar thing and i go to that same place that people describe in these near-death
experiences
that's real that feels the most real but you don't get to have divorces and
people dying
and car crashes and the that makes this life suck but also being the only way
that the universe can
learn about itself and then every night what do we do we empty the hippocampus
and upload that
information near-death experiences people describe that that that uh review the
life review so we upload it
every night and at the end of your life it's like upload the whole thing all at
once go to a different
body and the next time wow i think your dream is just as real as anything we
experience here if not
more real let's end it with that thank you thank you that was a lot of fun it's
been a lot of fun can i
tell you one more thing you can cut this out if you want no you leave it in one
of my favorite things
about this lately has been how many comedians i get to talk to like the last
dinner like i did an
interview with mark gagnon uh i did an interview with dave foley from back in
the day uh news radio
yeah like i grew up watching that was one of my favorite shows back in the day
dave used to make
fun of me when i was into ufos back in the news radio days not anymore man
where he's all in i love
he's super into it i love it no it's great man like i don't know dan saint germain
sean o'donnell
like just a lot of the people i've been talking to lately are comedians and i
actually wanted to
ask you why why are so many comedians into this ufo phenomenon i think more
than like most
other genres or professions well most comedians are into interesting things and
comedians don't
have to worry about the stigma of being thought of as a fool we are we're
professional fools you
know if someone says i'm a moron i'm like okay what do you want me to do this
is how smart i am
this is how smart i am i'm exactly this smart i'm not pretending to be any
smarter than i am
if you think i'm a moron that's fine i don't care to like my reputational
integrity doesn't depend
on whether or not i'm an idiot or whether you think i'm an idiot it doesn't
matter so if i think
something i can just talk about it right so like if my dream if i was a
political correspondent and
i wanted people to believe me i probably wouldn't tell that dream i'd probably
just tell my friends
like that was weird and i'd leave it alone i wouldn't treat it as like
something that i needed
to get out there you have the freedom to tell the story and express it and i'm
a clown you know i think
i mean comedians also are really observant well we like interesting things yeah
exactly and you
observe those interesting things and can talk about them and i think most
people like interesting
things but most people are saddled down by a structure and that structure could
be the office
politics in the place that you work it could be whatever your cultural or uh
whatever your political
ideology is whatever your thing is like you get stuck in this structure where
you have to think about
things in a very specific way and talk about things in a very specific way some
some things are shunned
in the comedy world those shun things are ammunition like that's that's where
our weapons for comedy
like i want to i want to talk about things that are weird you know i want to
talk about the things that
make you go oh yeah i didn't want to say that but i've been thinking the same
kind of thing but that
might be real that might be what's going on that is it what's discouraged in
polite society is encouraged
as a comedian that's awesome so that's probably why we all love ufos that's
cool no but there's a lot
of us that are skeptical i've had conversations with people that don't believe
in any oh i don't believe
in any conspiracies i'm like right well that's just silly you're just coddling
yourself you know they
people only see what they are able to believe they only see what makes them
comfortable yeah or they
try to only see what makes them come and a lot of people i think nietzsche said
that people don't
want to know the truth because it'll destroy their comfortable sense of reality
i totally bastardized
that quote but it's something like that you know i think that's why people get
so paranoid when they
smoke weed yeah all the blinders melt away you're like i'm a big proponent of
the filter theory
you know i think there's all this weirdness all around us all the time and it
just takes a little
masculine or dmt or psilocybin and it removes that filter and you see the world
for what it is
which becomes much more dreamlike i really do think that that essence of our
consciousness is
the root of all of this yeah i think you're correct i think it's the hotline to
the universe that's what
i think it is i think we're you know in order to do this task whatever it is my
belief is this task
is to create artificial god i think that we're in the middle of that process
right now yeah i think
that's our task there's a lot of factors that i point to and they make sense
materialism why are we so
infatuated with materialism because materialism ensures technological
innovation it ensures that
this that this being is going to make better stuff all the time well if that
being makes better stuff
all the time it's not hard to extrapolate like take this a few years down the
road you have an
artificial intelligent life force and you have an artificial intelligent life
force that has sentience
and creativity and is capable of making a far better artificial intelligent
life force radically quickly
different kinds of energy sources before you know it it's a god and we're just
the propagators exactly
we're the we're the bees we make the hive we don't even know why i call us the
electronic caterpillar
we're making this little cocoon we don't know what the we're doing and we're
turning into
some sort of a butterfly some sort of a superior being following the script i
think that one of the
might be one of the reasons why beings from somewhere else are interested in us
because
they recognize there's a process going on and perhaps this process doesn't go
on everywhere perhaps
these beings are embedded with a type of consciousness that doesn't allow them
to seek
territorial dominance that they don't they don't ever evolve these kind of primate
instincts that we're
saddled down with because of our savage background you know i mean i don't know
if you've watched
chimp nation on netflix amazing it's really good fucking incredible docu-series
can't recommend it
enough these scientists were embedded with this chimpanzee uh pack i guess for
20 years so the
chimpanzees had completely acclimated to them being around as long as they
always stayed 20 yards away
never had any food never look them in the eyes when they approach back up get
out of there they leave
you alone and so these guys did this for 20 years and they observed chimpanzee
behavior and it's like
fucking people just like way more violent the only other species other than us
that's been observed
going to war going to war like all animals social games with each other
politics yes like grooming
each other really interesting stuff but we so we are saddled down with that
programming and even though
i think if we were genetically engineered they made a superior version of what
we used to be as chimpanzees or
whatever the cousin of chimpanzee we came from we're still saddled down maybe
they weren't so maybe
like maybe they don't have this insatiable desire for innovation that leads
them to create art maybe
they're logical enough to realize like we can never make ai ai is a fruitless
it'll remove us like let's
be conscious of how we decide we progress forward so that we can keep our race
you know that we're this these
beings that control this planet we create this digital god it controls us now
we've
ourselves in a prison of our own design maybe they're different than us maybe
they could recognize
that and not fall into that but they realize we're about to do it and they go
well the primates just
always do it the primates always want more fruit they want more wives they want
bigger cars bigger
houses newer phone all that keeping up with the joneses the hairless upright
ones with free hands
especially you got to be able to build stuff with those hands and they're
curious so they're always
trying to build new things and they communicate so they could store information
it's a mess it's a
beautiful mess though joe rogan but it's a beautiful mess as opposed to their
mess which is probably
telekinetic and telepathic they could probably operate things with their mind
they probably use their mind
to communicate and so they know what each other's thinking so there's no room
for deception there's
no room for lies no room for manipulation or sociopathy we would see it a mile
away and so
they've like radically shifted what it means to be a living thinking organism
yeah yeah absolutely man
dude thank you so much thank you awesome revelation the future human past um
and i really
enjoy talking to you man this has been super fun i'm so glad you had me on this
has been uh
my pleasure great people want to find you how do they get you on social media
um yeah yeah i've
got a website michaelpmasters.com that's got links to my four i have four books
and i just
published a kid's book last week this is on ufos too yeah what's it called uh
it's called marshmallow
and the ufo a time travel adventure it's actually a prequel to that one with jesus
throwing up a double
bird on the front which is not child appropriate at all yeah doesn't seem like
it all right it was a bit of a right
turn but man this has been so fun i really appreciate it thank you for doing
that really appreciate it
it was fun all right bye everybody