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Derek is the fitness educator and entrepreneur behind the "MorePlates, More Dates" YouTube channel, podcast, and companion website. http://www.moreplatesmoredates.com https://www.youtube.com/@MorePlatesMoreDates
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Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day!
Oh, bro, you can tell me about your new drink.
Look at this here, red gummy fish.
I'm about to try it for the first time.
And this is a nootropic?
Yeah, so it's, I think on the first episode maybe that I did with you.
Ooh.
Robust, eh?
That's good.
Yeah.
Oh, that's delicious.
You mean robust?
You're saying it like it potentially is a negative thing.
Oh, both.
Flavor and...
I think it's great.
Oh, right on.
Red gummy fish.
This is fucking delicious.
I drink the shit out of this.
Oh, I'm glad you like it.
Oh, a lot of stuff in here.
What's in here?
So, I think it was the first time I was on, you asked me about Gorilla Mind and
the nootropic
formula that I used before podcasts.
Yeah.
You know, to get cognitively dialed.
And at the time, it was a capsule-based formula.
And it still is.
It still exists.
But taking what we could to suspend in a liquid format and getting it into
something
that's more like publicly and widely accepted and that they would want to drink
on a regular
basis and it's something you could use daily.
It's kind of what we did in this.
So, we included essentially like a daily use version of the Gorilla Mind
formula, which
includes the tyrosine precursor for dopamine as well as other neurotransmitters,
catecholamines
like adrenaline, noradrenaline.
Also, alpha-GPC, most bioavailable form of choline.
It crosses the blood-brain barrier and is pretty efficacious and also just a
good choline source
in general, which most people are deficient in as a nutrient.
And I think completely unaware that it's actually important to be supplementing
with potentially.
Pretty hard to get an adequate amount of choline.
But...
Where does it come from in food?
Liver is a good source.
Eggs.
And in general, it's just like the highly nutrition-dense foods that you would
get it
from, a lot of people aren't focusing on specifically either because of caloric
density or it's like
an animal-based like nose-to-tail thing or fill in the blank.
It's not impossible to do it.
A lot of people who focus on it could probably relatively easily, but it's
still one of the
things you have to focus on actually kind of like maneuvering into your diet
typically.
So, in general, most people are at least maybe like 50% of the way that are at
best.
And that's even among people who I would say are relatively balanced diet
individuals.
But...
Interesting.
So, I'm sure you're familiar with cholinergics and their impact on cognition
and whatnot.
Caffeine, tried and true.
How much you got in here?
200 milligrams.
Nice.
Very difficult decision trying to come up with what is the amount you're going
to stick with
in perpetuity in this thing.
Everyone's addicted now.
It's a real issue with caffeine.
So, it's like the fine line balance of not too much, something that is still
tolerable,
sustainable, going to be widely accepted and widely impactful.
It's on a beneficial level, but not overdoing it.
And 200 is kind of what we landed on.
And then urodine monophosphate, pretty unique ingredient.
I haven't seen anybody ever included in a drink, let alone even in supplements
typically.
What is it?
So, it's also something that operates via the cholinergic system, but in a
different way.
Mainly, utility is kind of enhancing your sensitivity to stimulants.
So, somebody who is otherwise desensitized from heightened exposure to things
that either desensitize them to caffeine or nicotine or things of this nature,
even something like the ADHD medications, this can actually, at least the
literature suggests strongly that it enhances dopamine neurotransmission
potential.
So, like almost restoring function and damaged dopamine-producing neurons in
the brain.
So, you can kind of get a heightened impact out of the same level of stimulant.
So, a caffeine dose that might otherwise be you're used to it now, you start to
feel it again more than you used to without having to increase your caffeine
intake.
Oh.
Yeah.
So, it's a pretty cool ingredient.
And it seems to have some neuroprotective properties potentially as well and
some interesting literature on like Alzheimer's and whatnot, but it's more like
fringe and to be determined how impactful it is.
And then on top of that, we have L-thenine.
You're probably familiar with its effects stacked with caffeine, increases
alpha waves, good for verbal fluency, as well as just general attention,
concentration, but keeping you a little bit more balanced and mellow while you
have the heightened stimulatory activity from the caffeine.
And then also saffron extract, which is a totally unique inclusion, in my
opinion, still don't really see it in nootropic formulas, let alone in drinks.
And it's something that in literature is shown to be as efficacious as
pharmaceutical SSRIs without inducing the same erectile dysfunction-inducing
effects of it and without causing the same anhedonia-inducing effects,
which is kind of like the muting of, like, pleasure in the brain.
Saffron.
Yeah.
Super interesting ingredient.
It seems to be pretty impactful for depression, for anti-anxiety.
And it also operates through a seemingly different mechanism, even though it's
often stacked up against SSRIs for its comparisons and outperforms them or
matches it with a relative lack of side effects.
It is something that operates through seemingly antioxidant activity, some dopaminergic,
some serotonergic, and just a little bit more of a benign way to achieve what
is a similar outcome, but with a seemingly lower, if not negligible, to non-existent
side effect profile.
I'm not saying that's what our drink does.
I'm just saying that's what the literature on saffron says, and anyone can go
look that up and reference it.
And then huperazine, probably the most impactful acetylcholinesterase inhibitor
that you can include alongside, like, choline precursors.
So it inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine as opposed to being the fuel,
like the precursor, like choline, alpha-GPC, CDP choline.
These are things that provide the substrate to actually produce the acetylcholine,
preventing the breakdown of it, too, could otherwise get, like, a one-two punch
where you get the heightened fuel substrate, but then also an inhibition of its
breakdown.
So you have just, like, a heightened level of cognitive capacity through both,
like, the one-two punch.
How did you determine these, like, doses and what you were going to include and
not include?
So a lot of it derived from the original capsule-based formula.
So back in, I don't know, 2021, I had already been using this thing for daily
use, essentially.
And it was something that was determined based upon years of experience,
personal anecdotes, but digging through hordes of clinical literature,
ultimately.
There's a lot of these compounds that have clinical studies on them for
different applications.
You can kind of sift through what are the efficacious dosages, where are they
impactful.
Whereas a sustainable level, you could actually take this long-term without it
being negatively impactful on, because sometimes if you overdo it in one area
over time, it might be problematic.
So trying to find the fine balance of where is a dose that moves the needle,
but isn't going to kind of, like, push you in too far of a negative direction
that it's unsustainable.
Because sometimes this stuff, it's like a hammer solution.
You might see an energy drink that's like 300, 350 caffeine, and it's like,
okay, you know.
You've essentially, like, singled out a lot of the customers who might
otherwise benefit from it.
Even if there was other good stuff in the drink, it's like, only stim junkies
can use it now, you know.
So this is kind of like the fine balance of what I thought to be the most
sustainable version of balancing, you know, dopamine input, serotonergic
activity, getting some of that, you know, anti-anxiety support, and also
getting a reasonable hit of caffeine.
And did you, so in pill form, so did you start out by using each individual
supplement and then trying to use them in combination to see if there's a synergistic
effect?
Like, how did you do it over time?
I guess maybe that's a bit more interesting than digging through literature,
but when I was a university student, just, like, being a nerd, mixing stuff in
my kitchen, like a chemist, essentially, and just measuring raw powders back,
you know, in the day what we would do,
or at least, you know, like biohackers and what have you, we'd buy just, like,
off of different websites, raw bulk ingredients, and then you'd measure it with
little micro spoons in these laboratory increments to try and get, okay, the
microgram equivalent of this,
and you'd make some disgusting shake with a concoction of different unflavored
powders and create what is your ultimate kind of combination through trial and
error, ultimately.
And were you, like, doing a diary, like, today I feel great?
Yeah, it was just keeping a log, almost like, you know, working out, like, how
did you respond to fill in the blank?
And did you take into account, like, sleep, all these different factors, diet,
training?
As many variables at the time, obviously, a bit more rudimentary and crude when
you're, like, 21 years old and you're just trying to, like, get cognitively
locked in to study for finals.
But back then it was just, what is the most impactful things that I've heard
work?
And then also digging further into literature, looking on the limited forums
that existed back then online, because it's a lot more of, like, a niche
community back then.
It's not like this was widely discussed.
Uh, 20, 2009, 2008?
Oh, early days.
Yeah.
That's when I first started fucking around with them.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I first found out about Neuro One.
That was the first one I found out about.
Okay.
Did you ever try that one?
Neuro One.
It's Bill Romanowski's company.
Okay.
The football player.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he developed it because he was having cognitive problems after, you know,
years and years of playing football.
And so he came up with this formulation.
And I was doing this radio show, Allison No Name in San Francisco.
And No Name's a dude.
I forget his name, unfortunately.
Ironically.
Ironically, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So long ago.
But he was working out with Romanowski.
Romanowski was trying to get him in shape.
And he gave him this stuff.
And he said, hey, try it.
And it was, you know, I do morning radio.
When you're promoting, like I was doing Cobb's Comedy Club.
Whenever you're doing a comedy club, you'd show, this is back in the day when
radio meant something.
You'd show up in the morning and you'd do the morning drive.
And they would go, oh, Joe Rogan's appearing at the comedy club this weekend.
Come see him.
And you'd be funny on the radio and have a good time with the people.
And he gave it to me.
And I was like, hey, man, this stuff feels like something's going on.
Like, this is legit.
And that's what really got me.
And that's how we developed AlphaBrain.
We developed AlphaBrain after me trying out Neuro One saying, can we optimize
this?
Is there another way to do this?
Is there, you know, other forms that we're missing?
But your formulation seems, like, very comprehensive and also fucking delicious.
Yeah.
One of the difficult things, too, is making it taste good while still being
able to suspend the active ingredients.
Because they could just fall out of suspension or a myriad of different issues,
carbonation problems, even exploding cans in transit that you're not predicting
are going to react a certain way.
Even the black lids, dude.
Like, it's stuff you don't even think of.
But absorbing heat, it's like, oh, it's going to be more prone to blowing up
now because of that.
Oh, because of a black lid.
Yeah.
Did you want a black lid just for aesthetics?
Yeah, at the time.
This looks cool.
Yeah, exactly.
And so what are you sweetening this stuff with?
Primarily sucralose, which obviously, you know, some people have their opinions
on it.
And that's totally fine and good.
But in general, based on clinical literature, it seems to be well tolerated.
What is the issue with it that people have?
I think some people think it depends on the person and, like, the kind of
content they make, typically.
And typically, they have a bit of a bias.
Yeah.
But in general, it's, you know, going to irritate your gut or it could cause GI
distress.
And for some people with extremely sensitive gastrointestinal issues, it can,
for sure.
But in general, a lot of the dosages used and just having it, even conservatively,
which most people are going to be, it's, like, pretty benign, at least from the
literature I've seen.
One of the things that we had noticed when we first came out with AlphaBrain
was for some people, it's a small amount, but for some people, they would get
headaches and they felt terrible after taking it.
I don't know what their dose, I don't know if they were taking the recommended
dose or if they were saying, well, two's good, I'll take five.
There's a lot of folks like that out there.
But, yeah, some of these, if you're not careful, it could be, you know, pushing
you into, like, we vetted this out beforehand, but one of the first formulations
or prototypes of Gorilla Mind in the capsule form, we had something called
velvet bean extract, which standardizes to L-DOPA.
So, like, Levodopa is used for, like, Parkinson's patients because it's a
direct precursor to dopamine without a rate-limiting step that kind of, like,
regulates the conversion.
So, rather than using tyrosine, we were, like, we thought, and we didn't end up
releasing it because of this, we could just go, okay, let's get a straight
precursor and see how impactful this thing is because we really want it to hit.
And, oh, my God, I had, like, dopamine overdose myself, had my girlfriend at
the time also fuck herself up, and my parents fucked themselves up.
And somehow it didn't occur until, like, three incidents later.
I'm like, okay, this thing is unsustainable.
And I guess my business partners didn't really even think worth mentioning,
which was kind of crazy at the time because they just trusted me to do the formulations
and whatnot.
But they had the same experience and didn't bring it up.
And I'm like, guys, like, we can't release this shit.
And it was just, like, way too intense.
What did it do to you?
It just, like, makes you extremely nauseous.
You feel like you have to keel over on a couch and just lie there until you
feel like you can actually regain composure and start moving around again.
Really?
Yeah.
Dopamine, a lot of people think more is better.
Right.
You're going to have more motivation, more drive, more, you know, the more the
better is what a lot of people think.
But similar to probably even worse than stimulants because at least stimulants,
you have kind of, like, a direct biofeedback through your heart rates going
through the roof and you're getting the anxiety.
With dopamine, if you overdo it with something that you can't, like, rate limit
either, you just, like, get sick and you just end up having to lie down for
hours.
Interesting.
Yeah.
One thing I like about a drink versus a pill form is that you can just take a
little.
Yeah, you can meter your dose.
Yeah, because you take a pill, you're taking a pill.
That's it.
You can't, like, unless you want to cut pills in half or pour some of the
capsule out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No one's doing that.
But this is nice because you can just kind of sip a little bit of it.
How many of these can you drink in a day?
I could drink a lot, personally.
Like, you don't even want to know, dude.
How many do you drink a day?
On a typical day, probably two to three, but I could.
What's recommended?
Oh, check the warning label, bro.
What does the warning label say, bro?
It must say no more than two a day, but I would say, on a podcast.
That's not more than one, is what I would recommend.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, especially with all that caffeine as well.
Yeah, you never know.
In general, 400 milligrams is even, like, the FDA stated, you know, everyone's
going to be okay, probably, dose.
But in reality, it's kind of crazy.
A lot of people don't realize the studies done for caffeine-induced performance
enhancement are all looking at, like, three to six milligrams a kilogram, which
is, like, unless you're a tiny woman, 400, 500, 600 milligrams are the doses
that actually really move the needle when it comes to acute performance
enhancement.
Well, Chael Sonnen used to take it in pill form.
Yeah.
Because he was saying that there's a level where they'll test you, where you'll
pop, where they'll say, okay, you're in a stimulant level.
Like, you took a stimulant before you fought.
Yeah, they have a – they had threshold concentrations that they would deem
inappropriately high, perhaps for safety, perhaps because they thought it was
an unfair advantage.
It's kind of –
I think that's what they were looking at.
It kind of depends, though, because I think it was removed, and I don't think
that threshold exists anymore except in the NCAA.
I'd have to revisit it.
But I'm pretty sure caffeine is, like, essentially you could go full bore at
this point.
Interesting.
So, 500, 600 milligrams was what the efficacious dose was?
So, you can get performance enhancement as low as, I think, some people was,
like, a milligram per kilogram.
It depends on the person and tolerance, of course.
But in general, the most tried and true studies when it comes to repeatable
high impact with a proportional relative lack of side effects but not none was,
like, three to six milligrams a kilogram.
And some of the studies go even higher than that.
Interesting.
And what are the benefits?
Like, what did they get?
Like, acute strength enhancements, offsetting, like, any sleep-induced deprivation
and performance outcomes.
Mentally, you can pretty much offset, like, a shitty night of sleep and all the
kind of detriments to your performance via a pretty solid dose of caffeine.
Yeah, most of the stuff is kind of energy acutely offsetting, performance decrement-related,
but also in a context of strength.
High-intensity activity, you can absolutely get a benefit from it, and there's
a reason why, you know, sprinters will take, you know, modafinil or high-dose
caffeine or power lifters will take, you know, massive doses of, you know, pre-workout
before a lift or whatnot.
Like, it's all impactful for your psychological state to get really, like,
locked in, in a hyper-vigilant state to really max out on what you're trying to
do, whatever it may be.
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I had a podcast the other day with Chris Masterjohn.
Do you know who he is?
Yeah, he's great.
Great.
And we were talking about the impact of creatine.
And they're trying to figure out what is the correct dose.
And a lot of people are going 20, 30.
They're getting pretty high.
Because recommended was like 5 milligrams, I think.
Yeah.
And now everyone's saying, actually, the real benefits are at 20 and at least
10.
But you're getting a lot of what happens when people have sleep deprivation.
And I'll butcher the science, so I won't try to repeat it.
And I'd recommend anybody listen to the episode.
But what he was essentially saying was it bypasses all the problems that occur.
And you could at least have a bridge to your performance would not be impeded
by a lack of sleep.
At least for a temporary, for a day or whatever.
Yeah, definitely want to touch on that.
But one thing to mention on the caffeine, too, is I think a lot of people, when
they hear the stuff like, you know, I heard you can go up to 20 grams of creatine.
Or, you know, the highest impact dose in caffeine literature is, you know, 3 to
6 milligrams a kilogram.
It's not like I, or I imagine Chris, is like blindly recommending anybody start
there.
And it could easily get misconstrued that way in like a clippable format if
people will just like hear the headline and then run with it.
Like, you should start as low as you can with caffeine.
And you could get a ergogenic effect as low as, I think the lowest dose was
like 50 to 100 milligrams probably if you equated to body weight.
But it's all like tolerance dependent.
It's just when you look at the studies, like these are the repeatable high
impact outcomes are typically in, and especially in like trained athletes where
you're trying to see how hard you can push them.
It's kind of like, you know, for max stress resilience, max, you know, acute
force production.
These are the kind of dosages that are just used in the studies.
So anyway, with that caveat, and same with the creatine, you know, you might
shit yourself if you go to 20 right away.
You don't want to start there.
A lot of people do, apparently.
Yeah, and I mean like Rhonda Patrick, amazing content, and she tolerates 20
grams well, which is kind of like surprising because I know a lot of women who
don't.
I think she probably microdoses it throughout the day and is really regimented
about making sure she's diligently spreading it out.
But some people who they bomb 20 at a time, even guys who think they have iron
stomachs.
Just shit all over the place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it's so much powder, too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just the fact that you're consuming all this powder.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Speaking of which, are you still doing the like million gummies today?
Of what?
Of creatine.
No, no.
You said you were going to crank that shit up to get to 20 grams.
I stopped with the gummies, and I went to powdered form.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Because I felt like I'm tired of eating these fucking things.
You got up to like, what, like 10 plus a day?
Oh, more.
I was eating like 15 a day.
Oh, shit, dude.
15 gummies a day.
But the issue is like, what else is in the gummies?
You know, what are the other things?
Yeah, they're not free of calories either.
It's kind of just like, if I'm going to eat candy, you know, kind of want it to
be like
good candy.
Yeah, I don't even know what it's sweetened with.
They taste good.
But the point was, is like, I didn't like eating them.
I was eating too, I'm like forcing myself to chew these things down.
I'm like, what am I doing?
I can just mix creatine in a glass of water, stir it up real quick, and just chug
it in five
seconds, and we're done.
I don't have to chew and swallow all these stupid fucking gummies.
But I do keep them.
I keep them around, because I think it's a great thing.
Like, if I hadn't had enough lately, I'll just pop a few.
It's like the best gateway drug, if you can even call it.
It's not like a drug, but to get people who otherwise would never try it to
actually see
the benefits of it.
Right.
So like, I know so many women who literally refuse to take the powder, because
it's like,
even though it's kind of tasteless, it's still a nuisance, can be a little bit
messy
depending on the scooper shape of it and everything, and how you're going to
try to
convince a chick, like, trust me, it's really good for your health if you, like,
you know,
fucking swig this thing dry and then chase it with water every day.
It's not the easiest sell every time.
They're like, fuck you.
I don't care.
So the gummies are good for that, in my opinion.
And yeah, I mean, going back to the 20 grams and the offsetting of, you know,
performance
deteriorations, I do think it's basically offsetting kind of the deficiencies
in, like, ATP
production, especially locally in the brain, and also kind of offsetting the
pulling of resources
away from, like, methylation support and whatnot in order to produce the endogenous
creatine as
well, these things can all be impactful to kind of, like, get you back to
almost baseline.
So if you're in a deteriorated state, being able to offset the performance
decrements from
an otherwise, you know, sleep-deprived state or, you know, you're traveling or
what have
you, like, it can absolutely be super impactful.
And the literature has shown that time and time again.
What's interesting is that creatine in the 1990s was thought of like steroids.
Yeah.
I mean, it was really, like, frowned upon, like, oh my God, someone's taking
creatine,
they're cheating.
Yeah.
It was really, that's like, how it was first introduced to the market.
You'd have to hide it from your parents when you're a teenager.
Really?
Yeah.
Well, at least when I was a teenager, it was kind of like, it had a taboo still.
It was like, you know, kind of like steroids light version.
Well, it's because it works.
Yeah, and parents, but they hear the stigma and the taboo associated, like, I
heard creatine
and they're selling it at the GNCs.
Yeah.
You know, better watch out for that one.
Meanwhile, they had real steroids at GNC.
Oh, yeah, the irony too.
Yeah.
I mean, they're like fucking M1Ts over the counter from, you know, like some 19-year-old
kid who's just like manning the counter and doesn't care and will like fuck
your endocrine
system up to sell it to you.
100%.
I took some stuff called Mag10.
Do you remember that?
If I saw the ingredient deck, I'm sure it's just like some fucking run-of-the-mill
M1T
product or something.
Gained like 10 solid pounds of muscle in a month.
And I bet your liver markers, not that you did blood work back then.
Were destroyed.
Yeah, like worse than if you took like injectable Trent even.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, well, 100% it killed my dick afterwards too when I got off of it.
I was like, what's going on?
And I was like, oh, this is a real steroid.
Yeah, and that's like you're not giving the PCT from the guy at the counter.
Meanwhile, I felt like a fucking gorilla when I was taking it.
I felt so strong when I was taking it.
I literally gained, I think it was like I was on it for five or six weeks and I
gained
10 solid pounds of muscle.
The amount of people that have inadvertently gotten gynecomastia from those
days when they
were sold some irresponsible hormone over the counter without like any
knowledge of what
they were taking and then had to just recover naturally with no support.
It's a shame.
Yeah, well, there was so much of that stuff like werewolf blast.
There was like dragon's dick.
It was like you could buy them and they were just pills.
They were just regular pills.
The stimulants are crazy too.
It was like ephedrine was over the counter.
Oh, yeah.
And like so weird.
But in Canada for relatively recently even, it was still available over the
counter even
though Canada is like super tight on regulation when it comes to the most weird
stuff.
Like when it comes to caffeine, you can't even have a can with 200 milligrams.
It has to be like 180 or lower.
Why exactly?
I don't know.
But that is a thing as well as limitations on basic amino acids.
It's like tyrosine if it's more than like 10 milligrams or something.
Amino acids?
Yeah.
That's hilarious.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Like based on what?
Nonsense.
Oh, God.
Fucking nanny state.
But anyway, so ephedrine for whatever reason was still over the counter
available in GNCs up
until like a handful of years ago.
And it was, you know, the best seller in GNCs and a lot of supplement stores,
not just
because it worked as, you know, like a bronchodilator, but also because people
were buying it in bulk
to make meth.
I believe it.
I took rip fuel once for jiu-jitsu, right before jiu-jitsu, and I had to stop
in the middle
of the class.
I was like, I got to sit down.
I pulled over to the side of my guys.
My fucking heart is beating over my chest.
And I was explaining.
I don't remember how many I took, but I took some rip fuel.
I was like, well, it's good to lift with.
I'll try it for jiu-jitsu.
It's fucking for something that like really taxes your cardiovascular system.
It was horrendous.
Resting horrid at like 120.
Right away, I was tired.
Like right away.
Like right away.
Like we start rolling.
I was like, God, I'm fucking exhausted.
My heart's beating out of my chest.
But in your brain, you're like, this feels good.
No, no.
I knew I fucked up.
I knew I did it once and I never did it again.
If you're doing that sport, but for a guy who's going to the gym and is told
like, this
is the shit, bro.
If you're just lifting.
Yeah.
If you're just going for like max bench, that kind of shit.
Anybody watching will know, you know, the original, have you heard of Jack 3D?
Yeah.
I took that too.
Yeah, it was nuts.
And what's crazy too is back then it was proprietary blends on a lot of the
products and it was
still the norm with no education available, no YouTube to really tell you what
to look for.
Also no oversight.
Yeah, so these companies would basically sell you for, you know, 50 bucks, a
tub of like
a powder flavored tub of just like the stimulant.
And then it was like, like all the other ingredients for vasodilation.
They're like, fuck you.
You're just getting DMA, bro.
Yeah, you were just getting like straight meth.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was crazy.
There was so much, those were the wild west days of like GNCs and like local
vitamin shops.
Because you could get stuff that really worked, like worked like something that's
highly illegal
and you could buy it with a credit card.
And the sales tactics were just like so ruthless, but you couldn't really prove
them otherwise.
Right.
It was always like a pit bull with like giant muscles on the cover of it with
like lightning
bolts.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's funny too, because some of these companies, it's like now we're in the mix
competing with
them on shelves or whatever.
But I remember being like convinced back when I was a teenager by them, oh, you
need, you
know, Gakik, Lukik, and Krikik in this combo that costs 250 bucks.
Yeah.
And it's like, you know, literally pressed tablets of like glutamine or
something at a
dose that doesn't even help.
And they're telling me like, this is what J. Cullery used to fucking prefer the
Olympia.
Sure.
Yeah.
He's like, look at the before and after of Lee Priest.
He lost like 50 pounds of pure fat and kept all his muscle from Celltech.
Oh, that's the dirty thing about those bodybuilders back in the day is they
couldn't admit that
they were on gear.
So they were all just telling you they were taking this stuff and then there
would be spokespeople
for it.
And it's like, God, it was so deceptive.
Yeah.
It was so creepy.
And you would have to know someone at the gym who would, you know, go, oh, I
want to be
like Lee Haney.
Like, no, that's not how he got that way.
Yeah.
Like, you got to take the real stuff.
This is what he's actually taking.
And so many people didn't think that those bodybuilders were on like hardcore
steroids.
Yeah.
A lot of, yeah, it's a deception at a mass scale for sure.
I don't think.
The whole sport.
Yeah.
The whole sport was just a complete, like, three-card money game.
Yeah.
It's crazy because now it's almost full circle because, you know, I was back
then, you know,
at least at the time when I didn't know any better, oh, you know, I guess this
guy must
be natural because he told me so or whatever.
And it's like, I'm skeptical, but like, and, you know, in hindsight, it's
absolutely ridiculous.
But now a lot of bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming because it's more normal
to be transparent and
also not mislead people and, you know, unethically sell things and just reality
check people on the, what it's going to take to be at that level.
And is it the risk you want to, you know, subject yourself to?
Because back in the day too, it was like, you didn't know if you had good
genetics or not when it came to certain dosage responses.
So you would like always think the next guy is just taking more than you.
And it would result in guys unspokenly thinking this guy must just be taking 5X
the amount of shit I'm on.
So I need to go to like five to 10 grams of total gear per week now.
And you would just like, that's what led to so many early deaths in bodybuilding
too.
So I think there's another thing, another factor is that the consequences of
lying and getting caught now are huge because if you lose all credibility and
people know that you're just a bullshit artist and then they'll never trust you
again.
Like you have one chance to tell the truth forever.
And the moment you violate that, you're always a liar.
And that's a giant fucking issue with whether it's actors or anybody.
You know, like all these guys who prep for roles and they're talking about it
now.
Like, oh, I took Anivar, I took this.
Like Mickey Rourke did when he was talking about that movie, The Wrestler.
You know, I remember they were asking him on whatever talk show he was on.
He's like, oh, I fucking took everything.
What are you talking about?
I took a ton of shit.
That guy was a pioneer of interviews for that kind of stuff.
Well, he's a wild dude.
He'll tell the truth.
Yeah.
But you have one chance to tell the truth forever.
Yeah.
You violate that and you're always going to be a bullshit artist.
Yeah.
A guy who's pretty good about that now is Frank Grillo.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was doing some like men's health thing.
And I have never seen men's health talk about steroids forthcomingly.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So they had him on in a sit down interview and they were like, so, you know,
what's it take to be at your-
Just recent?
Yeah.
So last year, within the last year.
Oh, right.
If not months ago.
Is this one he was talking about, Anovar?
Yeah.
And he talked about his TRT protocol and kind of like the realities of how
impactful it actually is and improving his performance and how it makes him
feel.
And he was just like pretty non-trigger-coated about it.
Well, he's a good example because he was clean for a long time.
Yeah.
Like he had like very low testosterone because he was just going on willpower.
He was really just working out on willpower.
Action star lifts the lid on fitness recovery and the reality behind the scenes
physiques.
Frank Gill, 60, gets real about Hollywood steroid use.
They all do it.
Well, that is a fact.
But he was not on anything for a long time, like deep into his 50s.
And he got his testosterone taken.
He's good friends with Brian Callen.
And, you know, he got his testosterone taken.
It was fucking nothing.
He had like zero.
But he was just very disciplined and working out hard.
But he didn't look like he was on gear.
He just looked like he was ripped.
He was like shredded.
He was like in really good shape because he trained every fucking day and he
was doing a lot of boxing.
So a lot of like heavy caloric expenditure, a lot of like long rounds, hitting
the back, hitting mitts, doing sparring.
You know, you're going to burn off so much calories.
And also you're going to like your metabolism is going to be like completely
jacked.
So then for him to talk about, OK, now I got on this and then I got on that.
And this is the improvements in my sleep, my mood, everything got better.
Because, you know, he's talked about his testosterone when he got a test.
It was super low.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's probably one of the few examples actually still to this day, though, of
somebody being like really transparent.
I actually saw The Rock talking about peptide use recently, which is kind of
like a.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Dipping his toes in the water.
Yeah.
Exactly.
He's lost a ton of weight, man.
Oh, dude.
Yeah.
He's kind of crazy.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of speculation about if it's like a health thing or what.
But that's tough to know because he just had the role where he gained the most
eyes he ever has, too.
Right.
Right.
But that had to be terrible for him.
Oh, for sure.
But it's like, would you have subjected yourself to that if you knew?
I don't know if he would have known, but you would have think proactively he
would know how close he is to kind of like an issue.
Probably pretty close, 50 years old and getting up to 300 pounds.
Yeah.
I just mean, I think he probably had more preventative screening before that
role to know he could even subject himself to it without dying because it's
like a pretty risky endeavor to go become the biggest you've ever been at that
age.
So to then downsize after the theory is that he was literally about to die,
essentially.
So that's why he lost so much weight now.
And I'm thinking, I think maybe he's just like trying to take like a health
phase and kind of like come down and wait for a bit and he'll probably like
crank it back up.
Honestly, I think just this is pure speculation.
I haven't talked to him about this.
I think based on what he tried to do with the Smashing Machine, I think he's
trying to win an Oscar and he's trying to be a real actor because he was really
good in that movie.
Did you see it?
Not yet.
Planning on it, though.
It's the best mixed martial arts movie ever.
That's not saying a lot because they all suck.
But it is the it's the most accurate in terms of historical matches.
Like they had all the matches like with Igor of Tenshin, all these different
people that he fought that Mark Kerr actually fought.
And it's just a good movie.
It's a really good movie.
Like like Emily Blunt plays his crazy girlfriend and she's out of her fucking
mind.
And to the point where like they're arguing right before he fights and you're
getting anxiety watching like, oh, Jesus fucking Christ.
It's just such a crazy, toxic relationship.
It is Emily Blunt, right?
I didn't fuck that up.
Did I?
There it is.
She's fucking great in it, too.
It's just a really good movie that I think would have gotten a lot more credit
if it wasn't a mixed martial arts movie.
Because I think, you know, mixed martial arts movie is like, oh, it's some
fucking meathead, like rah, rah, rah, you know, bullshit movie.
But it's a very good movie.
And he is Mark Kerr.
Oh, he worked so accurate.
So good.
Yeah.
He just, and not just the fighting stuff, man.
The fighting stuff was great, but the acting stuff.
Like he played that guy.
And I know Mark.
I was like, fuck, that's Mark.
That's nuts.
It was so good.
It was a really good movie.
So what I think he's doing is the same thing Bautista's doing, Dave Bautista.
But inversed.
Well, Dave Bautista lost a lot of weight, too.
Yeah.
But I guess I mean, like, typically when actors are trying to get taken more
seriously for more impactful, like artistic creative roles, it's almost like
the jacked meathead guy downsizes to do something more, you know, like, I don't
know, artsy.
Yeah.
But, like, this is getting as yoked as possible in order to be the arts.
Right, right, right.
Whereas Bautista is, like, fully downsized, I think, now.
Yeah.
But what I'm saying is now, what he's doing now, I think he's probably trying
to get different kinds of roles.
Roles where, like, I mean, have you ever met him?
No.
He looks like a superhero.
He looks like a superhero.
Like, we worked out together.
He came to the gym, and I brought a bunch of comedians, and we worked out and
hung out.
Like, Tony Clinchcliffe was in his glory because, you know, he loves pro
wrestling.
We're all in the sauna together hanging out with the rock.
For the first time, he probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.
What's that?
He probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.
What do you mean?
Hinchcliffe is just like.
Oh, Hinchcliffe doesn't know that he uses gear.
I still remember the episode where he was dumbfounded that you and Chubb
thought that he was doing anything.
Tony Hinchcliffe, seriously?
He is locked into being a 12-year-old pro wrestling fan for the rest of his
life.
It's like a religious thing for him.
It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin.
You know, she gave birth to Jesus.
Like, I'm not kidding.
Like, he fucking loves pro wrestling so much that he is completely locked in.
He's a good example, though, of, like, a reasonably in-the-know guy who has
friends in the space, too.
Like, you and, you know, Chubb know about this stuff.
And even he was, like, surprised that you guys thought that at the time.
It's funny.
It is funny when you think about it.
So imagine just the average person.
They probably, you know.
Right.
And also, he's, you know, been very coy about it and saying, actually, not
really coy, probably deceptive, right?
Just, like, strategically perfect in his tact when it comes to avoiding it.
Yes, that's the best way to describe it.
Instead of saying, I've never taken antisteroids, he's kind of like, look over
there.
Yeah, exactly.
But everybody who knows, knows.
You know, it's one of those things.
It's like you look at them, you're like, there's no way.
There's no way.
There's just no way.
I think, I can't imagine talking about peptides and putting the feelers out
there would not eventually transition to, like, you know.
It was recommended to me by my doctor to be on, you know, hormone support or
whatever.
100%.
Yeah, like, I mean, you're kind of in that realm talking about it at this point,
you know.
Just come out and say it.
I've always just come out and said it.
I don't see any problem with it.
But I don't have that kind of a reputation.
Like, the problem with, like, being the pro wrestling thing is, like, you're a
role model for the youth.
And, you know, you have to, especially a guy like that, he's a giant movie star.
You don't want to be telling everybody you're on gear.
He probably wasn't for, like, a big chunk of his early career.
His early career, right.
Yeah, his early career, I don't think he was.
I guess the problem is when you're, like, when I really became successful is
when I just sauced my face off.
Yeah, that's the thing.
When he became a superhero.
I mean, the first time I met him, he had cowboy boots on, so he's even taller.
And he just looked like a fucking brick shithouse.
I'm like, but they're not even a real person.
This isn't a real person.
This is a superhero.
Yeah, yeah.
I, uh, yeah, it's crazy, dude.
But I think he's still jacked.
Still very jacked.
It's just proportionally relative to what he was.
You know, it's kind of like anybody who used to be a bodybuilder or had
significant amounts of size.
Even me.
Like, people in my videos are like, well, you're, you know, you've lost
everything.
And it's like, okay, I'm not, like, non-existent anymore.
I'm just, like, not a bodybuilder anymore.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, with him, it's like, he's still yoked.
He's, like, 230, 240 or whatever.
Yeah.
The thing is, like, super gearheads will always criticize.
Oh, you look like a fucking chick now.
They get crazy.
They said that about Bautista, too.
But he's, like, 240.
I think he's just going to stop wearing, like, the weird tapered Gucci suits.
It just makes him look a little bit more slender than, uh, it's not
complimentary to his physique.
He's still jacked, too.
Yeah, but it does, it is complimentary if you didn't know what he used to look
like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what's crazy.
Like, you look at him, the guy looks fucking great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, yeah, objectively, if you just look at it with no baseline.
Like, pull up a photo of Dave Bautista now.
And he's also just getting older.
Yes.
Like, there's got to be some level where you get acceptance of, like, okay, you're
allowed to downsize so you don't die.
Yeah, you could die.
That's the thing.
Like, you're, if you're pushing gear at that age, so there's, yeah, like, look
at Bautista on the right.
You wouldn't say that's a small guy, you know?
That's not a small guy.
He's a big fucking dude, but he's just slimmer now.
He looks like, like, if you saw an MMA, like, Alex Pereira.
You don't think Alex Pereira's small.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, you know, he's 240 pounds.
Yeah, if he was bodybuilding for a while and then decided to convert to, you
know, MMA.
That's the thing.
But he also got, like, that's what he looks like now.
Like, that's not a small guy.
Yeah, and he's like, I don't know how old, but I mean.
That's 20, 25.
He's got to be 50, 56, 56.
So that's, he's fucking shredded.
He looks fucking gigantic.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think he actually did a role recently where he bulked up.
Yes.
Now that I think about it.
Yeah.
And he went to, like, it was, like, fat weight, too, which is crazy.
Yeah, that was that, uh...
God, Glass Onion?
Is that what it was called?
There was some, some movie that he did.
It was a really good movie.
It was a movie where, like, some billionaire had everybody come to his island
for some crazy
party and there was a murder.
What was that called?
That, I think, is Glass Onion.
I don't know.
That was Glass Onion, right?
I don't know if it was for something else.
He was huge for Glass Onion.
He got gigantic.
He got big for something else, too.
But I think he was, like, playing, I don't remember what his role was, but
playing some
former athlete or something along those lines.
Yeah, he was housey, dude.
It's weird when you get really big for a movie that sucks.
You know what I mean?
Or kill yourself for a movie that sucks.
Yeah, I hope it did well.
Jesus.
Christian Bale did that for The Machinist.
He almost died.
75 pounds he gained for Knock at the Cabin.
Oh, that's what it is.
Not...
What was that movie?
Show me what that looked like.
Oh, yeah.
Knock at the Cabin.
What was that movie?
It's a horror movie on...
I did not watch it.
Wow.
A horror movie, huh?
Do you watch horror movies ever?
Oh, yeah.
I love a good horror movie.
He was 315?
Yeah.
Jesus.
So now he's 240.
Yeah, it's much more sustainable.
Yeah, but that's, like, a weird weight.
That's, like, what the fuck did he eat to get that big?
And, again, he probably did that at, like, 52, which is fucking dangerous.
Yeah.
You probably got sleep apnea.
You're all fucked up.
Yeah.
Charlize Theron did that, too, recently.
She did it for Monster.
I know.
No, again.
She did it again?
Yeah.
Don't do that.
Close Charlize.
Oh, God.
That's real?
Yeah.
What is it for?
I forget the movie.
I just saw this photo the other day.
I think some women, they're probably, like, a lady like her.
They're probably, like, Tully.
I don't know what that is.
Might even be new.
I just saw that.
That's such a flex.
When you're a hot lady, do you get fat and gross?
And, like, when she did Monster, she shaved her eyebrows off.
Did you see the Sydney Sweeney, like, boxing?
I didn't see that.
Not that she got fat and gross, but, like, she gained some weight.
Did she?
Yeah.
That movie got zero attention, the Christy Martin movie.
Oh, yeah?
Because it was, like, three decades past when anybody gave a shit.
Oh.
You know what I mean?
I at least got the impression, I haven't watched it, so I could be way off base,
that
it was kind of, like, one of those artistic, kind of, like, look at my versatility
in roles
kind of thing.
Yeah.
What did Sydney Sweeney look like in that movie?
Did she gain weight?
They might have put her in a fat suit.
Well, they said she gained, like, 30 pounds of muscle or something, which is,
like,
the typical headline nonsense.
Horseshit.
Yeah.
But she definitely, like, you know, took it seriously and gained the weight
that she
needed to, to look whatever the role was, for sure.
Yeah, that's such a weird thing, the acting world.
You have to, like, change your...
Like, Robert De Niro was the first guy to do it, for Raging Bull.
You remember Tom Cruise in, uh...
Tropic Thunder?
Yeah.
Yeah, but that was a fat suit.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, because they made his forearms fat.
They shaved his head.
He was fucking great in that movie.
Sick movie, yeah.
Oh, fuck, what a movie.
That was the last bang before Woke.
Yeah.
That was the last movie that you could ever do like that before Woke kicked in
and essentially
ruined great comedies.
Because you couldn't go too far.
You can't do that anymore.
You just get in trouble.
Yeah, it's like back then, if you were to ask, okay, you know, have a hit list
of just,
like, ready-to-laugh-your-ass-off movies that are just, like, low effort.
You don't have to think too much.
You can just sit down and enjoy.
There was a bunch of bangers from back then.
Yeah.
But it's like, now it is.
I don't even know what to go to.
They don't happen anymore.
Yeah.
Like, the Farrelly Brothers movies, like, Kingpin.
Fucking great movie.
You know, there's so much.
Something about Mary.
There's so many of those, like, outrageous, hysterical movies that, it was
funny.
I mean, I asked Robert Downey Jr., I was like, I go, you couldn't do blackface
in a movie today.
He goes, oh, you could do it.
But what would happen afterwards is the big deal.
He got it in, like, it's like the scene in a movie where the elevator door
closes right
before the monster gets to you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He got there just in time.
And, like, it was perfect timing where he didn't suffer from it.
No, yeah, it's crazy to see the delta and just, like, I don't even know what to
watch
when I go on Netflix now, to be honest.
Well, with comedies, it's really fucking hard.
It's really hard.
The only thing that's really wild and free is stand-up comedy.
Like, to do a comedy movie and just go full Tropic Thunder is almost impossible
today.
But if somebody did it, if somebody just self-financed it, oh, my God, it would
fucking kill.
It would make so much money.
And then it would open up the floodgates because people still want that, you
know?
They still love it.
Like, it's not that you agree with everything these people are saying and doing.
It's comedy.
Like, I don't agree with John Wick killing everybody.
You know what I mean?
Like, but he's not really killing everybody.
Like, it's a fucking movie.
And it used to be that you knew that when you went into these movies before
everybody
was, like, looking for everything to potentially be offended by.
Yeah.
It's just, like, ruined everything.
What do you watch now?
I don't watch comedies anymore.
But, like, just in general, do you have any, like, kind of just, like, low
barrier or just
I sit down and turn my brain off?
Oh, there's a lot of great stuff.
You know what I watched last night, Jamie?
You recommended Pluribus?
Is that what it's called?
I only watched the first episode.
Holy shit.
Yeah, what a weird show, right?
Holy shit is it good.
That's right up your alley, yeah.
Holy shit is it good.
It's a new Apple show.
And I don't want to give away too much, but it has something to do with aliens.
And aliens send a transmission to Earth, and there's, like, this insane impact
on society.
But it's, like, fucking total left-field movie.
You don't see it coming.
It's crazy.
Or not movies.
Television show.
And again, I, like Jamie, I've only seen the first episode.
But it's great.
It's like, holy shit, he's giving you anxiety.
It's so good.
Did you guys watch, what was that other Apple show that was really good?
It was, like, in an office setting.
I can't believe I'm forgetting it.
Severance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you guys watch that?
Severance was great.
Especially the first episode, or the first season.
The first season was great.
After a while, they get a little weird.
Because you're, like, you're running this very strange game that you're doing.
These people remember and don't remember.
And then you fuck him with the guy's head so he can remember.
And then he should.
Yeah.
What about Stranger Things and It?
Those are two that my girlfriend has me watching right now.
I watched the first episode of Stranger Things last night as well.
Oh, yeah.
Or yesterday as well.
That was great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's, dude, it's kind of crazy how much time is between these seasons
now.
It's like you finish.
I almost, like, don't want to commit to something because it's like, well, if I
like it.
Yeah.
Fuck you to me, you know?
Two years from now.
Fuck you for the next three years for the next season.
Game of Thrones.
It's a great example of that.
Oh, dude.
House of Dragons?
Like, good luck seeing the next season, bro.
Well, not only that.
Like, unfortunately with House of Dragons, it's got to follow Game of Thrones,
which is, like,
one of the best series of all time.
Yeah.
And the characters just aren't as compelling for whatever reason.
And so I don't know who the fuck anybody is.
So the new season starts.
I'm like, who's that?
Yeah.
And maybe I just have a, like, monkey brain.
But I'm watching.
I'm like, I didn't see a dragon the whole fucking episode.
I need a dragon.
I feel ripped off.
Yeah.
I need a dragon.
I need that dragon to fucking kill somebody.
Yeah.
I need to burn somebody alive.
Yeah.
It's, uh, there's a lot of great shows now.
But, but again, it, you could own, it's very hard to make a great comedy.
You could make a great, like, mindless entertainment, like, fun show.
Slow Horses.
That's a great show.
That's, uh, is that an Apple show?
I believe it is.
Yeah.
That's another Apple show.
With Gary Oldman.
It's a spy, uh, um, M5 or M-I, what is it?
M-I-5?
What do they call themselves?
Yeah.
M-I-5.
The numbers of the person, I think it's, uh, whatever.
I don't know.
Whatever it is.
It's a spy show.
Yeah.
British spy show.
That's a really good show, too.
Yeah, it is M-I-5.
Yeah.
I mean, there's, there's a lot of great shows to watch.
Like, there's, uh, I think it's probably the best time ever for content.
If you just want to sit and be entertained, it's probably the best time ever
because of
streaming.
Because streaming, instead of, you know, one episode, you're watching a show
and it takes
place over an hour and then the next episode is totally different, a totally
different subject
line, different story.
No, it's like the thing, you get, you get locked into these characters, like Sopranos,
I think
was like the first one to really do that excellently and drag it out over, you
know, many, many
seasons.
We have this like running storyline.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, uh, I'm kind of just like tuned out of TV at this point.
I just watch what my girlfriend wants to watch and Stranger Things and It is
the thing right
now.
Yeah.
I watched the new It show.
Yeah.
I watched the first episode of that too.
That looks great.
It's like oddly overlapping with the Stranger Things.
I feel like I'm kind of watching the same show.
Almost.
Kind of.
Like, obviously totally different overall stories, but like, you know, you have
kids and
these kind of like.
And evil things.
And the.
Yeah.
I don't want to like wreck an episode, but they mentioned It, not specifically
It, but
a story about like an extraterrestrial evil being called It in a Stranger
Things episode.
I'm like, this is a weird fucking reference for these being at the same time
right now.
Yeah.
Well, they probably didn't plan that out, right?
Yeah.
I don't know, man.
What is it called?
Welcome to Derry?
Is that what it's called?
Yeah.
The new one.
But it's good.
That's good too.
The release date scheduling makes absolutely no sense for Stranger Things too.
It's like in batches and the next batch is coming out on Christmas.
And then the final one is New Year's.
New Year's.
It's like the exact times you like probably can't bang out all the episodes or
like.
Right.
You're going to have to force your family to sit there with you.
High school kids can though.
What's that?
That's high school kids can.
Yeah, high school kids can.
Vacations.
Well, I think Stranger Things is so big they could fucking make it so you can
only watch
it at three o'clock in the morning and it would still get 30 million views.
But like just such a weird choice.
I don't know.
Well, it's just weird that it takes so long to make one of those damn things
that you
have to wait three years in between seasons.
And then you have these kids that are playing 15 year olds and now they're
fucking 30.
Yeah.
It's kind of weird.
You can tell some of them it's like, how do we make you look as young as
possible?
Yeah.
You give them goofy haircuts and then there's also like, spoiler alert, there's
some computer
generated imaging.
So they're using some sort of an AI program to make scenes with the kids when
they were
young.
Yeah.
And you kind of can tell, but you kind of can't tell.
It's like really good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nowadays, it's like you feel like you just AI generate the whole thing, but.
Yeah.
Well, it's getting close.
You know, it's getting to the point where, you know, there's no excuse for
waiting three
years because you could have AI generate scripts and do it in an hour.
What about a F1?
You guys following it at all right now?
The show or the actual racing?
No, just the actual racing.
I went to the F1 that was in Austin.
It was amazing.
This year?
Yeah.
Okay.
It's awesome.
For, I think right now, it's the first time in the last 15 years they've had
three drivers
coming down to the final race to win the championship between them.
And the final race is this weekend.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Where is it?
I think it's in, is it in Abu Dhabi?
I don't know.
That might have been the race that just happened, but it was nuts, dude.
Because right now, you had McLaren, who was like a shoe-in to have their main
driver,
or at least the guy who was in the lead, take it.
But they're refusing to favor one over the other, which is a typical strategy
for whoever's
in the lead.
You'll have the other one kind of like block people for them to make sure they
win the
driver's championship.
They're refusing to do that?
Yeah.
They're like making sure they can have equal opportunities to win, but the net
result might
now be none of them win, and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing.
Oh, that's crazy.
Is it because the drivers aren't willing to do that?
I guess, but also just lack of enforcement from the pit boss, like team guy,
who's like
supposed to be enforcing team principles and whatnot.
It is kind of funky that that's how you win.
You have someone, it's a team game, but it's not.
There's team-generated points between the two drivers, which can result in the
team championship.
But the thing that most people actually care about is who's the best driver in
the world.
Right.
And that will be coming down to one person, even if it's a guy from a team that
won the
thing, they're still competing against each other.
And sometimes they can get pretty reckless where they're, you know, one is not
willing
to compromise and he'll like blow the whole thing up to make sure that he has
the best
opportunity.
Understandably, but it's also like you guys are getting paid tens of millions
of dollars.
Maybe you should listen to your fucking guy who's telling you what to do.
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Yeah, I get it.
But then, again, if you're on another team, you're like, well, this is kind of
bullshit.
Because this guy didn't really win the race.
He won the race because his friends blocked everybody.
Yeah.
Fair enough.
But, I mean, like, part of it is kind of like that.
That's, like, part of the strategy.
Oh, I get it.
I get it.
But maybe we should abandon that strategy.
Because if it is a race.
Yeah.
I guess it's just problematic because it's so bandwidth intensive, too, to
manage the two drivers that if they're equally trying to win and only one is
more likely to, what may very well happen on this weekend is they both don't
win.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So.
I got a tour of the McLaren pit last year.
And they showed me, like, all the different technology that's involved.
And they gave me, like, a rundown of how much engineering is involved in these
things and explained everything.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
They're all just trying to shave tenths of seconds out of turns.
And then it all accumulates over the course of the race.
Yeah.
It's, like, pretty psychotic when you look at what the differential is and kind
of, like, what really separates these guys.
It's often just, like, minuscule amounts and just, like, the littlest mistake,
you know.
What are those guys on?
That's what I want to know.
Do they test them?
They are tested, but not to the rigor of, like, an Olympic.
Do they test them for a gorilla mine?
I'm sure they're probably using it.
This is probably a good thing for them to take.
Probably for something that's not banned, yeah.
Is any of this stuff banned, do you think, in formula one?
None of it.
This is all, like, very straight edge, like, really tried and true neutropics
that work through kind of, like, endogenous pathways or things that otherwise
backfill neurotransmitters, similar to, like, the creatine deficiency that we
talked about.
If you backfill it and you can otherwise, you know, have a readily available
source of phosphocritine to offset ATP deficits, L-tyrosine, stuff like that,
similar just in regards to dopamine, for example.
I'm an hour in, and I feel it.
It's legit.
Yeah.
It's very legit.
And, again, it's very delicious.
So, congratulations on that.
Oh, thank you.
Those guys lose a ton of weight, too, during those races.
Oh, dude, so much water loss.
Yeah, because you're fucking hot as shit in those suits, so you don't burn
alive if you crash.
Yeah, so new, different strategies, like hyperhydration, using things like
liquid glycerol could be impactful to retain more water.
Do they wear a diaper?
I don't know, but...
How long is the race?
It could be, it kind of, I think it depends, but it's, like, upwards of an hour,
an hour and a half, so...
Yeah, just piss yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah, just sit in your own pee for an hour and a half.
Yeah, you would have to.
Yeah.
I would imagine, with that kind of money on the line, just fucking let it go,
baby.
Yeah, I don't even know if you'd have to, though, if you're just, like, perspiring
like a motherfucker.
You might not.
They come out drenched.
Right.
Yeah, and they've lost, like, tons of weight.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
But sometimes in the sauna, I have to pee.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah, sometimes I'm, like, 15 minutes into a sauna session, I'm like, goddammit,
I can't hold it.
So I've got to open the door and go out and piss outside and then climb back in
again.
Have you ever tried glycerol for hyperhydration?
No.
What is that?
Just, like, straight up glycerol, it's, like, a sugar, but it also has a hyperhydrating
effect that you can hold upwards of an extra pound of body water if you have it
as a supplement.
So some endurance athletes will use it before events in order to retain more
water in a way that is not – it enhances, like, thermoregulation, your
ability to tolerate stress.
You don't lose as much – you don't dehydrate as fast.
There's a lot of upsides for its kind of, like, unique application, maybe even
avoiding pissing at nighttime.
Really?
Potentially, yeah.
Oh, that would help because I always have to pee.
Yeah.
One thing that helps me is sauna before bed, though.
Sauna before bed, I can generally sleep through the night.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
So I'll do, like, a session about an hour before I go to sleep and no water
after that.
Oh, yeah.
That usually does it.
Yeah, if you do a water cutoff that's, like, pretty regimented, it's probably
the best overall strategy.
As long as you make sure you hydrate in the morning.
So I'm pretty diligent about that.
First step in the morning, amino acids with water.
Like, I do that 99% of the time, like, first thing, before coffee, before
anything.
And do you put electrolytes in it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I take Gary Brecka's stuff.
It's called Perfect Aminos.
It's aminos and electrolytes.
I get that in first thing in the morning.
Just, you know, get it out of the way.
And I didn't used to for the longest time.
I would just hit the gym right away and just drink water when I was in there.
Damn.
But I feel a difference.
What about, I thought step one was cold plunge.
Yeah, it depends.
I haven't cold plunged in the last three weeks because I got some stem cells.
And I'm still sauna-ing.
So it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this in terms of, like,
what you should and shouldn't do post-stem cell injection.
I have a very minor Achilles tear.
When I was elk hunting in September, I twisted my ankle.
Pretty bad.
And I didn't think anything of it.
I stopped limping after, like, 15 or 20 minutes.
And I was like, I think I'm okay.
And I was wearing, at the time, I was wearing very light boots.
They're, like, you know, just a real light boot that you wouldn't do for heavy
mountain trekking.
And we did some steep elevation.
And then the real problem is going down.
And, you know, when you're going down, like, several thousand feet over the
course of, like, an hour.
Yeah.
It's fucking brutal.
And I twisted one of my ankles.
And then the next day, I put on a much higher, more rigid boot with great ankle
support.
And I was fine for the rest of the trip.
But then.
That's the fucking worst.
When you just kind of, like, stare at the ground the entire time you're walking.
Because the littlest off-step, you just roll your ankle or.
Not only that.
You go down.
Yeah.
You know, you could die.
We were in a pretty steep country in Utah.
But, interestingly, I didn't notice anything was wrong until I'd get into a
push-up position.
Which is weird.
So, when, you know, I do 100 push-ups every morning.
100 push-ups, 100 bodyweight squats.
That's my warm-up before I do anything.
And so, when I got into, like, a high push-up position with, like, my butt up
in the air.
It's a lot of stretching on the Achilles.
And my left Achilles was fucking killing me.
Like, sharp pain.
I was like, fuck, this hurts.
And I thought, maybe it needs to stretch out.
So, I did something like jump rope.
Doesn't bother me.
Jump rope doesn't bother me.
Nothing else bothers me.
But that position bothered me.
And it was bothering me for, like, five weeks.
And I was like, all right, I've got to get this looked at.
Because it seems like it might be getting worse every time I do that.
And so, I got it scanned.
And there's a minor tear in my Achilles.
Achilles tears are a fucking nightmare.
You know, if you blow out your Achilles, that's a nightmare.
It's a long rehabilitation process.
Blood flow to the area is pretty good.
Especially at 58.
Yeah.
It's a fucking, that's a long recovery.
It's like, I'm looking at a year before I could do everything again.
And then you lose all your gains, all your cardio, everything.
You can't move right.
You're fucked.
So, I got a stem cell shot in there.
And there's a lot of debate about when you should be able to cold plunge after
stem cells.
And a lot of the literature seems to say three months.
It doesn't seem to think, sauna, there's more indication that sauna is probably
therapeutically beneficial for the stem cells.
Because the idea is that these stem cells are still in the area trying to heal
the tissue.
When you cold plunge, you kill them.
But when you're doing sauna, you're increasing blood flow.
And it might help them.
So, what they said is like, I wouldn't do anything for a couple weeks.
Nothing.
And then after that, just sauna for a while.
So, I haven't done a cold plunge in over a month.
Seems excessive.
Not that.
I'm scared to go back in.
Yeah.
Because I was so used to it.
Oh, you got to get over the hurdle again.
I'm so scared.
Every time I do it, I almost don't do it.
Every fucking time I do it.
I almost don't do it.
So, like, for the past month, it's just been get up and just work out.
And then sauna afterwards.
What's the rehab stack?
Is it any different than what you were already doing?
Or is it kind of like?
BBC 157, TB 500, that's it.
It's definitely improved.
BBC local in the Achilles?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right there.
Or you just pinch the sub-Q area and kind of like that.
I shove it right in there.
I think local is the way to go.
I've done it subcutaneously, like in the side and love handles.
It doesn't have the same effect.
Yeah, if you can get it to the area, it's like, why not?
Yeah.
I think BPC 157 locally is the way to go.
But it's definitely getting a lot better.
It doesn't hurt at all anymore.
Yeah.
I'm just making sure it fully heals up.
Yeah.
Interesting note on kind of like the hormone support stuff, this past month,
the FDA actually
removed most of the black box warnings off of women's HRT products.
Yes.
Pretty amazing.
Yeah.
Really amazing because so many women were lied to for so long.
They were told that there's all these negative effects of supplementing your
hormones.
But my God, how many fucking people just said lost quality of life for fucking
nothing, for
no science at all.
It's just complete horse shit.
But there's so much bad fucking science out there, man.
Yeah.
Like, it's a real problem.
It's hot as shit in here.
There's so much bad science out there, man.
It almost gets to a point where you almost have to look at things through the
lens of, does
this sound like nonsense?
Yeah.
Well, and then where do you go?
Like, who do you trust?
You know, unless you're well-versed in who the respectable online people are.
Yeah.
Like, you might see, you know, however many studies that say fill in the blank
exotic compound
is, like, totally ineffective and it's like, who was it tested on?
For how long?
What was the dosage?
Right.
You know, and like, it might be a completely useless interpretation for your
specific nuanced
scenario.
And if you hear hordes of anecdotes from everyone in your circle you trust who
actually knows
what they're talking about, has been in the trenches, knows their body well,
you can't
really ignore that.
What was the narrative about female hormones and why did they do that for so
long?
Do you know?
So, I think it was in the 90s, the Women's Health Initiative were assessing the
viability
and safety profile of hormone replacement therapy.
And I might butcher this a little bit, but in general, the, you know, overall
context is
relatively accurate, I'm sure.
And it was like, of a thousand women or something, if they tested HRT, I want
to say HRT, I put
in air quotes, because like...
Estrogen.
Not even like human bio-identical estrogen.
It was like equine horse piss derived estrogens.
Horse piss?
Yeah.
For real?
Yeah.
So, it was like literally the most synthetic, you know, animal derived shitty
estrogen that
is not bio-identical at all.
And also a synthetic progestin that is not bio-identical to progesterone.
It's just like a progestin analog, essentially, that fulfills activity at the
receptor, but is
otherwise like, you know, the equivalent of putting you on like a microdose of
nandrolone or a microdose
of, you know, fill in the blank progestin derived compound or 19-nor derived
compound that facilitates
progestogenic activity, but just is not progesterone.
So, it's like to try and say, you know, this horse piss derived estrogen
formula and the synthetic
progestin we apply to these women is the equivalent of you having been on what
you would otherwise
produce as a young, healthy, vibrant woman from a bio-identical estradiol and
progesterone
perspective, simply not accurate.
But that's like essentially the comparison that they made and, you know,
presented it as such.
And the result was a relative risk increase of breast cancer incidents, I
believe, to the tune of like
one of a thousand women.
And the absolute number was like three of a thousand in the placebo arm had
breast cancer incidents.
And then I think four out of a thousand had breast cancer.
So, then the media ran with a 26% increase in risk.
Oh, so everybody got panicky.
Yeah.
And like I might be misinterpreting one or two variables, but like high level,
that's essentially
what it was.
And it caused mass hysteria and panic and basically dictated the facilitation
of black box warnings
being put on hormone therapies.
So, the most aggressive FDA warning that shows basically any clinician that's
looking at it
or anybody who's going to like take the risk of using it.
This is the most dangerous drug you could use with the highest risk of like
lethal side
effects potential.
And then on top of that, it just like wasn't representative of what is actual
replacement
therapy with what is the hormone you would be producing naturally.
So, for years, you know, we went thinking, oh, it's going to cause clotting
issues, it's
going to cause cancer, it's going to do this, it's going to do that.
And only in the most nuanced edge case scenarios is it justified because, you
know, that person
just absolutely has a quality of life deterioration that is so significant that
it's worth it to
take the risk to use hormone replacement therapy.
And it's like now, similar to some of the like common sense interpretation of
things, like
this doesn't make sense.
Like, look at all this literature showing the cardioprotective effects, showing
the
neuroprotective effects, showing the bone support and integrity, like what you
lose if
you don't take these hormones.
Like, you're essentially giving yourself a worse quality of life inevitably and
deteriorating
your health unquestionably.
Like, with men, there is some semblance of residual activity you can maintain
and some men
maintain vibrant, you know, reasonable testosterone production until old age.
But with women, it's kind of like, like right when the lights shut off.
Yeah.
Like.
Drops off a cliff.
Yeah.
It's interesting how the initial narratives get stuck in the public zeitgeist
forever.
Like, the initial narrative for testosterone replacement was you can get testicular
cancer,
prostate cancer.
And it was just, it's so many people like, I don't want to mess around with
testosterone replacement
because I could get cancer.
And then Brigham Buehler explained that study.
Yeah.
And explained the real results of that study.
And it's like, it didn't show that anybody got prostate cancer from it.
It's just not true.
Yeah.
And it's like, even the mechanism by which they argue it would cause it doesn't
even make
mechanistic sense.
Because it's like the only way you're going to increase the prostate growth is
via bringing.
And it's like, of course, when you use hormones that are androgens, like you're
going to grow
tissues that they're exposed to, but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing
necessarily.
And if you're a hypogonadal male who has low T and it goes up to just the
threshold of barely
acceptable, that's where the growth essentially stops.
And if you go beyond that into like medium, normal, high, normal, even super
physiologic
territory, your prostate doesn't linearly grow in exposure.
Otherwise, bodybuilders would have massive prostates like busting out of their
bodies.
Giant dicks.
Imagine if that...
We wish.
Didn't have it.
Well, how come it grows in large clitorises in women?
Because the physiology is essentially interchangeable in that you could have
gone in any direction
dependent on your exposure to these hormones.
Oh, right.
That's why.
Yeah.
So if a man exposes himself to significant amounts of estrogen and has hormone
deprivation,
there are some irreversible anatomical changes because they've already like
matured that will
not go away.
But like with women, it's like the inverse and you could otherwise get closer
to that like
extreme scenario where you're...
Once your voice box gets you a certain like anatomical development, you can't
necessarily
go back to your high pitched, you know, feminine voice.
Yeah, that's a real problem with detransitioners.
They keep that voice forever.
And it's the real problem is it never even becomes a man voice.
It just becomes weird.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like the in-between.
Trans men never develop a voice like, you know, Isaac Hayes.
Yeah, that's one of the tough things with HRT too is like as much as I think it's
so amazing
that it's being educated about and there's widespread attention being brought
to the importance
of it.
There's also the cowboy docs who almost go to the hyper extreme of optimization
and are putting
women on aggressive dosages of testosterone saying, you've been lied to, you
know, this
is actually what you need to feel good.
And for a woman who's been, you know, asexual for years and feels, you know,
has no energy
and they are told this guy is, you know, the cutting edge doc who everyone sees,
they will
probably trust his guidance.
And as early as before I started Merrick Health, which is my company, my mom
was getting hormone
therapy guidance from a doc who was relatively well-respected and the dose he
put her on of
testosterone was so aggressive that her voice was changing within weeks.
And I had to like cut the cord on and I was like, what the hell is this?
And her testosterone levels were like in the like 300 plus.
Whoa!
Yeah.
So like you're essentially low, low, normal, healthy male territory.
Not like actually, but like on a clinical reference range and absolutely
potential for
masculinization.
Yeah.
And also horny as fuck.
Potentially.
Yeah.
But it's like, you didn't need to go there probably to get to horny as fuck.
My wife has a friend who got on it and she's a British lady and she had a very
funny friend.
She goes, his stuff makes me feel like a bloke.
She goes, I'm horny like a bloke.
And testosterone can be helpful in women for sure.
And it's an overlooked hormone that is absolutely important in women, just the
same as it is in
men.
It's just like, you got to kind of know what you're getting yourself into too.
When it comes to like, what is reasonable for a doctor to tell you you need and
at what
like concentrations you should expect, you know, blood level targets to be.
Because if you just go in blind, you might end up with the most exotic, you
know, like
Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should be on like the craziest cocktail ever
because
he knows you're going to feel it.
Right.
And respond really, really well immediately, but then also might just like fuck
you up
permanently.
Well, this is also the problem with transitioners.
When, when you're becoming a trans man, right?
Um, the initial impact is you, uh, alleviation of anxiety and euphoria.
You start feeling great because that's what testosterone does for you.
It doesn't mean you're supposed to have that.
Your body's going, what the fuck is this?
And now you're, you know, essentially you're, you're changing the whole
cocktail of your
body and you're, you know, and you're going to give permanent changes that if
you make a
decision when you're 14, 15 years old, they put you in this stuff.
Those detransitioners are some of the saddest stories, man, because they've
become sterile.
They'll never have children and you know, and they lose their tits cause they
go to a doctor
that thinks you should have your memory glands chopped off when you're 15.
It's fucking, we're in the weirdest of times with all this stuff because it's
like what gets
accepted and not accepted and what, you know, what become, again, like we were
talking about
the zeitgeist when a thought gets out there and then it's very difficult to
move away from
that and it's like, oh, you're affirming your true self.
Like really?
With, with synthetic hormones that didn't exist in your body before that's,
that's your true
self?
Yeah.
Are you fucking sure?
It sounds like this might be a social contagion.
Yeah.
Like sweeping through the land.
And one of the things that's really interesting is the, um, the drop off of
kids identifying
as trans is it coincides directly with Elon buying Twitter.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Like immediately when you could, cause you used to not be able to talk about it.
You still like literally, if you, if you dead name someone from Twitter,
meaning like if
you changed your name to Dominique and I called you Derek, I could get banned
from Twitter for
life for forever.
That's crazy.
Just by using your old name.
Like if I called Bruce, Caitlyn Jenner Bruce, I would get banned from Twitter
for life.
Damn.
Cause nuts like, but it's like this very bizarre social contagion, this weird
mind virus that
went through the whole country and everybody just signed up for it.
Like, and no one wanted to be a bigot.
So like, Oh, I don't want to be a bigot.
Yeah.
I think as much as I think access to drugs is super, like you should have the
full liberty
to do whatever you want.
That's where the importance of educating yourself is so critical because you
really don't know
what you're subjecting yourself to.
If you have an immature brain too, you have not even had full like frontal lobe
development
to try and think you're going to make a sound decision with how you're going to
impact your
lifelong physiology.
It's like, probably you can't even have a tattoo.
It's not even legal to get a tattoo and get your penis removed.
It's fucking crazy.
It's fucking crazy.
Oh, they know some, some people know as early as three.
I've had conversations with people on this podcast.
I have friends that have trans kids and they knew right away.
Like, are you sure they didn't have a fucking insane mother and a gay child?
Cause that might be what was going on.
Yeah.
And now this gay child will never have an orgasm again.
Cause you've convinced them that they're not a gay child, that they're a woman
and which
is in fact, completely homophobic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Extreme of the scenario, but maybe on the opposite is guys who are in their, in
adolescence
who are so hypereducated that they use the knowledge to biohack their
development into becoming
as maximally tall and like infrastructurally sound as adults as possible.
Right, right, right.
And that's a really interesting predicament cause it's like any like reasonably
ethical
doctor will be like, there's no fucking way I'm touching that like case of any
overseeing
anybody's care who was doing that kind of thing.
I was watching a podcast about this where this guy was talking about his son
and he's short
and his son is short and his son's friends were also short and their parents
got the
kid on growth when they were, and they grew like a lot bigger than the parents,
which
is Alexander Karelin.
Mm.
Do you know Karelin's story?
Uh.
They call him the experiment.
He's the freakiest wrestler that has ever existed.
I know who it is, but I didn't know that specifically it was in adolescence
that he was subjected to.
Well, it's just speculation on my part.
There's probably.
Have you seen my photo that I have out in the gym?
Uh.
It's the photo that I put up to remind myself of what a pussy I really am.
Is that when he's like about to fucking toss that dude?
He's fucking hoisting that girl.
That picture, that one.
Yeah, that's a famous one.
That guy was 300 fucking pounds and moved like a cat.
Like unbelievably mobile and flexible and had like an insane record.
Yeah.
I think it was like 280 and one or 280 and two.
Like fucking insane.
Like one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time.
But there's, um, they call him, in Russia they would call him the experiment.
Yeah.
And you see his parents, his parents are like 5'5", 5'7", like small people.
Yeah.
And he's this fucking behemoth of a person.
Yeah.
And of course, the Soviet doping program is legendary.
The movie Icarus highlights that, you know, but everybody knew about that.
The Eastern Bloc weightlifters, the females, they set records that were never
broken again.
These women completely became men.
Yeah.
You know, like there's, there's a lot of evidence that they were doing that to
their athletes.
The fact that they wouldn't do it to their most dominant wrestler in the
history of the fucking sport.
And the guy who was the absolute biggest freak in the history of wrestling.
Like there was nobody like that guy.
Yeah.
We should talk about some of those Russian drugs.
I heard, uh, you bring up Trimtazanine with somebody the other day.
But before that, have you ever heard of the Lionel Messi story?
No.
Okay.
So did you know that he was destined to be a dwarf if he didn't get on huge
amounts of growth hormone?
Really?
Yeah.
So he got supplied with pharmaceutical growth hormone by the team that was
trying to get him to basically be with them.
Well, he's a small guy as it is, right?
Yeah.
So he grew to what is otherwise an acceptable adult height, but he otherwise
was destined to be literally a dwarf, whatever the socially acceptable term is.
Wow.
Yeah.
So they either paid for his pharmaceutical growth hormone and admitted, like,
got it for him, paid for it, made sure he was taking it, or he didn't become
the greatest, some argue, you know, the football player of all time.
Well, it's also, you have to take into consideration, like, how much of an
effect did that have on his performance?
I mean, it definitely-
Because, like, that guy can do things that no one else can do.
Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown to the height he is.
But it's not just the height.
It's the explosive movement, his ability to change direction, like, better than
anybody.
Yeah.
The infrastructure is obviously supporting of it.
I don't necessarily know.
It would be impossible to, like, really quantify that there's no, like, you
know, A-B test of it.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
There's no placebo-controlled trial.
But, you know, if he didn't do it, he would not be even playing.
Wow.
Yeah.
I did not know that.
Yeah.
It's probably one of the most overlooked but wild cases of a professional
athlete who, like, needed to go, like, full board to the tits.
How old was he when they did that to him?
Like, a young teen, if not a child.
Seeing 11 years old.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
And it was like you either take this at the dose that is going to, like, push
you to, you know, maximal IGF-1 output territory and we get you to as high of
maturation as possible or you're not going to be a professional player.
How tall is Messi now?
5'7".
Wow.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
You know, I told you the Yoel Romero story, right?
Probably.
Yoel Romero is the biggest athletic freak I've ever seen in my life.
And I've seen a lot of athletic freaks.
Yeah.
Yoel Romero, when he, I believe it was in Australia, he was fighting and after
the fight goes to a doctor to get checked up.
He had a fractured orbital.
He had, you know, a rough fight.
The doctor examines him and then says to the UFC, where did you get this guy?
Oh, yeah.
Did I tell you this?
Yeah.
And they go, hey, he's great, right?
He goes, no, no, no.
His tendons in his eyes are three times the size of a normal person.
Oh, right, right, right.
They said his orbital bone is already healing.
Crazy.
Like, what did they do to him?
Because he was on the Cuban Olympic program.
Yeah.
You know, and the way he talks about it, like the program was like so regimented.
In fact, they had tiers of athletes and the highest tier ate three times a day.
The tier below that ate two times a day.
So it motivated you literally to get more food.
Wow.
And you're competing with these guys that their entire life is wrestling.
Yeah.
That is everything.
And it literally can feed their family.
It's a matter of whether or not their family gets food, whether it changes your
social status.
And he goes, and because of that, you become a machine.
That's how he's saying it.
I could do a good YOL.
You become a machine.
And he's the biggest freak of all time.
In fact, everybody who fights him says hitting him hurts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What Robert Whitaker said is like hitting metal.
He goes, dude, he's like, you hit the guy.
He doesn't feel like a normal person.
He goes, it's like, you're hitting metal.
He's still competing, but in, was it one?
Dirty boxing.
Dirty boxing was his latest one.
Oh, my God.
He's almost 50.
He's jacked as fuck.
Now he's a heavyweight, full six pack, almost 50 years old, fucking gigantic.
I mean, now he's got to be geared up.
I mean, I would imagine, because he's in these like fringe leagues that, you
know.
You'd think.
Their drug test is a fucking multiple choice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What do you want?
I'm on Jesus.
He had that famous speech.
He was saying, don't forget about Jesus.
He goes, don't forget Jesus.
And everybody thought he was saying, no gay Jesus is not gay.
Oh, my God.
And so they thought he was homophobic.
And he's like, no, no, no, no, no.
No forget Jesus.
But he was saying, don't forget Jesus.
Like, Jesus is important.
And everybody's like, oh, my God.
Yoel Romero used his platform to say homophobic things after a fight.
Like, no, he can't speak English very well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know?
And he's religious.
I feel like, yeah.
That guy, he, I always felt like if he just kind of like threw himself into the
fire more,
he could just like crush it.
The problem is cardio.
When you're carrying around that much weight, you know, first of all, wrestling,
his wrestling
was above and beyond anybody else.
But he was just like slug when he didn't need to.
Well, they get in love with knocking people out, first of all.
And that guy's explosive capacity was, he knocked out Chris Weidman, one of the
fucking
scariest flying knees I've ever seen in my life.
It was a great fight up until the moment that he put Chris Weidman into the
shadow realm.
But he hit him with this flying knee, just explode.
He lulls you.
So what Israel looks like he's tired or whatever.
Then he jumps on you.
And his ability to close the distance is so, it's like, you think about wrestlers.
Like, did you see Bo Nichols last knockout?
He knocked out Adolfo Vieira with a head kick.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was spectacular.
But Bo Nichols is an elite wrestler, like a top shelf blue chip wrestler.
And one of the things that wrestlers have is this ability to close distance.
Because they're on the outside and they can just shoot doubles.
So that explosion naturally lends itself to closing the distance and striking.
Because, you know, it's the same kind of thing.
If you develop good striking and Adolfo Vieira, who's like fucking super jacked,
but he's a gi jujitsu guy.
Gi jujitsu is all about strength and control, technique as well.
But it's a tight game.
It's not a game of, like, jumping, moving across distance quick.
It's a game of they're gripping each other.
And then, you know, it's a lot about strength and it's a lot about technique.
But it's not about closing distance.
So Adolfo Vieira is like a plodding, like really super jacked guy.
And Bo Nichols just slide on his feet, moving on the outside and just closing
distance, cracking
him, getting out.
And he hits him with this fucking bomb head kick and puts him to sleep.
But it's that ability to close the distance.
Nobody did that better than Yoel.
Yoel was the best at that.
Because he's just a fucking unbelievable athlete.
And with Izzy, he fought Ezreal Adesanya.
And Izzy said, dude, I had to stay on the outside with that guy.
I could not just go after him because the counters would come so fast.
Yoel caught him with a big left hand early in the fight.
And he was like, oh, well, fuck this.
He's like, we're going to make this a boring fight.
I'm just going to win a decision on this motherfucker.
Because it's just the consequences of being too close to him where he can do
that.
It's just you have to fight a technical fight with that guy.
Stay on the outside.
Pick at him.
Move a lot.
Don't set your feet ever.
Never be in a place where he can just like, because he can just launch on you
and blast you.
So, yeah, on the flip side of that, the leaping in the middleweight of Chemayev,
ruthless to watch.
That was like the most painful fight I've seen recently.
Oh, yeah.
The trick is duplicy fight.
Yeah.
Well, that's just levels and levels above everyone else.
Just like closing distance, even when you know what's about to come.
Can't stop it.
Once he gets his hands on you, you're fucked.
There's something about that kind of wrestling from the Chechens and the Dagestanis
and maybe even him more than any of the other ones.
It's just so aggressive.
And he chains things together so well.
And if you're not training with guys like that, like Schaub told me that he
went to see Chemayev when Chemayev is in training camp for Drekas duplicy.
And he called me up.
He goes, dude, listen to me.
He goes, like, Schaub was a top 10 UFC heavyweight.
He's been around forever.
He was in camp with George St. Pierre when George St. Pierre was in his prime.
Nate Marquardt was in his prime.
He's like, dude, I've never seen nothing like this.
He goes, they were bringing in world-class wrestlers.
And he's fucking rag-dolling them.
He goes, he's a freak.
He goes, he's going to fuck Drekas up.
I go, really?
He goes, dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked.
Turned out to be 100% accurate.
Yeah.
It was like the most obscene example I've seen.
His wrestling is obscene.
That's a great way to put it.
His wrestling is obscene.
And if you can't compete, like this one thing that I said about Drekas after
that fight was like, that gap is so wide.
That's like jumping across the Grand Canyon.
You're not going to make it.
Like you would have to start, you'd have to get a time machine, go back to the
time when you're six and start wrestling in Dagestan.
Like you've got to like have those kind of skills to compete with that guy.
Yeah.
Only an elite wrestler who can also strike is going to be able to fuck with
that guy.
Unless he gets silly and decides to strike with someone and they KO him.
Other than that, I just can't see anybody fucking with that guy.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, I guess, needs somebody stylistically to match up to really.
Bo Nickel.
Yeah.
But Bo has to grow as a fighter.
You know, he has to grow as a fighter.
And he's doing that.
I mean, he's a unbelievably dedicated and disciplined guy.
And if anybody can do it, he can do it because he's got that elite wrestling.
Like if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic.
But Chumayev is a much better striker right now.
At least has been up until this last fight with Vieira, which was a huge knockout.
But Vieira was kind of a standing target for Bo.
What did you think of the Usman positive test result?
Kind of interesting.
Oh, the bigger Usman.
Yeah.
The older brother.
Yeah.
Duh.
That's a duh.
He's fucking huge.
I've, yeah, I mean.
Unfortunate, you know, because the heavyweight division is so devoid of talent.
Yeah.
Gable Stevenson is the fucking guy.
Yeah.
That's the guy.
That's the guy.
He's not even in the UFC yet.
I mean, that Olympic gold medalist, fucking freak athlete, 250 pounds, moves
like a cat.
That's the guy that he's every, I sent a text message to Dana White.
I sent him a video of Gable's last fight.
I said, everyone's fucked.
Everyone's fucked when this guy comes out.
He KO'd this guy with a left hand.
He KO'd this guy with a left hand and then took him down as he was knocked out.
Watch this knockout.
Because it's so fucking crazy.
The speed that this guy has.
First of all, really good striking already.
And he's only been striking for like a fucking year.
But watch when he KOs this guy.
He hits him with a punch.
Boom.
And then takes him down.
Jesus.
Dude.
Everyone's fucked.
And then just.
Well, I mean, that's just nuts, man.
That kind of speed is nuts for a heavyweight.
Yeah.
Look at that left hook.
Boom.
Takes him down.
Smash.
And then.
That's like a video game combo.
Jesus.
And he can do backflips and shit.
When he fought in dirty boxing, he knocks the guy out.
And then he leaps over the top rope and lands on the apron.
Just leaps over the top rope with like effortless.
Yeah.
Freak.
Just a real freak.
And again, just like watch this KO.
When he KOs this guy.
Well, first of all, this guy has no business being in there with him.
But this is just boxing.
This is what they call dirty boxing.
Boom.
So you could ground and pound guys.
So is this like the modern day DC?
Sort of.
Oh, he's maybe even better.
And bigger.
A lot bigger.
See how he jumped over that rope?
Watch that again.
Super athletic, but like doesn't.
Kind of unassuming.
Exactly.
Well, I mean, not really unassuming.
He's a fucking house man.
He just doesn't.
He has higher body fat.
Yeah.
But look how he jumped over that rope.
Oh, yeah.
When you see that, of course.
Watch it.
Show that again.
Yeah, that was insane.
Look how the effortless.
Look at.
Just effortless.
Yeah.
Leaps over that fucking.
That's like five feet.
He just jumps over it like it's nothing.
And after fighting.
After fighting.
But literally with no effort.
Just hops over it like it didn't exist.
Lands perfectly.
Yeah.
He's a freak, man.
Yeah.
And he's training with Jon Jones.
And, you know, he's training with like some of the best fighters.
And he's training.
And he's trying to fight every month.
He's trying to get as much experience as he can before he gets into the UFC.
And he's coming.
And everybody's in trouble.
How old is he?
How old is he?
25.
Oh, jeez.
They're all fucked.
Yeah.
Everyone's fucked.
I mean, everyone is fucked.
Because there's no, other than Jon, there's no one that can wrestle with that
guy in that
sport.
And the thing about a guy who can wrestle like that is if he can strike like
that, the problem
with wrestling is you're always worried about the takedown.
So that opens you up to strikes because you're always like every feint you're
thinking is
going to shoot for your legs.
But then, boom, he catches you with a left hook.
And the speed that guy has, it's like a lethal combination of athleticism,
speed, power, size,
and an insane wrestling pedigree.
I mean, Olympic gold medalist, as good as it gets with wrestling.
I think the last time I heard you talk about a guy like this, at least when I
was on, was
Pereira before he came in.
Similar.
Yeah.
Similar kind of thing where he's a specialist.
Yeah.
You know, but-
You're like, watch out for this fucking guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I remember DC was like, come on, man.
I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, this guy is different.
Yeah.
Because I had been a huge fan of Pereira when he was fighting in glory.
And, you know, you'd watch him hit guys and they'd go flying across the ring.
Yeah.
Like, what the fuck is that guy made out of?
Yeah.
And when you, like, when I interview him, like, I put my hand on him, it's like
this table,
dude.
He's, like, made out of oak.
Like, he's fucking dense.
Yeah.
And there's something about the way he throws punches.
Have you ever seen him punch that machine?
You know, that machine that, like, generates-
It's, like, effortless, but it's, like, super high power.
He hit it with his right hand because his left hand had been bothering him, and
he got 190.
Mm-hmm.
100- the previous, like, Francis Ngannou got a 129.
He got a 190 with a right hand.
Crazy.
It's fucking insane, dude.
I got, like, 150 with a kick.
This guy got 190 with a punch.
Jesus.
190 is insane.
And it's his right hand.
Yeah.
I bet his left hand is probably 200.
It's, fuck.
See if you can find that video.
It got deleted from the way I was looking at it.
It got deleted?
Well, the way I was being advertised when you Google it is not.
The internet's not currently there.
People, like, hide it.
Somewhere else.
Bro, he hit so hard that Mark Goddard, after he fought Khalil Roundtree, after
he just beat
Khalil Roundtree across the octagon, Mark Goddard, when they were announcing
the KO and, you
know, raising his hand, Mark comes up to me at the end of the fight.
He goes, the sound, the sound it makes when that guy hits people is ungodly.
He goes, I've been doing this for 20 years, mate.
He goes, it's ungodly.
Watch this.
Bro, bro, bro, bro.
Yo, Lou.
Play that again.
Play that.
Just look at the force that this guy generates.
There's something about, it's the leverage because of his take.
That's us watching it.
170.
Oh, my God.
Bro, that's nuts.
Yeah.
That's nuts.
His power's a weird thing, man.
You're born with it.
Like, nothing else.
Like, there's a lot of skills that you can acquire, but there's a threshold to
how hard
you're going to be able to hit.
And I think it's based on body mechanics.
It's based on the frame.
It's based on the size of your hand.
He has massive hands.
It's based on, there's just a lot of factors.
Exclusive, fast-twitch muscle fiber.
Some people don't have a lot of it.
Some people are more of an endurance fighter, and they don't hit as hard, but
they can just
get you with combinations, and they put you away eventually.
But Pereira's different, man.
It's like, David Goggins always likes to say, he's uncommon amongst uncommon
men.
Yeah.
It's interesting that his chin seems to be holding up really well.
At light heavyweight.
Yeah.
And he, you know, has been knocked out before.
He's getting older, and like, he seems fine.
Well, it's because he's not cutting weight anymore.
There's nothing that fucks your chin up more than dehydration.
When he was losing weight, he was getting down to 185 pounds, and he was
weighing in the day
of the fight at 226.
226, weighing in at 185, you cut weight, and then rehydrating up to 226 a day
later.
Damn.
Like, you don't rehydrate your brain, man.
And so you can't take shots.
You can't take shots as well.
And it's a common thread amongst fighters.
Like, Jack Hermanson, he got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez at 185, and
Gregory Rodriguez
is another one.
He's a freak.
Just a giant 185.
Like, it doesn't even make sense.
You're standing next to him.
I weigh 200 pounds, and I stand next to him.
I'm a little short me.
And I'm like, how?
How the fuck are you 15 pounds lighter than me?
That's not even, it's not, this is science.
Like, it doesn't even make sense.
And so Jack went down to 170 and just got KO'd the other day.
Bad.
Yeah, it was rough.
Just bad.
Yeah.
Because I think that you're way more vulnerable.
Like, Frankie Edgar is a perfect example, because Frankie, when he was in his
prime at 155,
didn't cut any weight.
He was one of the rare guys that was a 155-pound champion that was actually 155
pounds when he
fought.
And just amazing durability because of that.
Yeah.
Because he didn't dehydrate himself.
So he was, like, optimal.
And there's, like, this point of diminishing returns where, you know, you're
physically
bigger, you're stronger, but you can't take shots.
And you also fatigue quicker because your body essentially almost died 24 hours
ago.
Yeah.
I mean, these guys get to death's door to make weight.
Their whole face is sucked in.
Their eyeballs are pulled back in their head.
Yeah.
It's kind of crazy.
Yeah.
I think more attention is going to come to how to actually ensure your brain
stays safe in
the sports for longevity purposes as people kind of realize how impactful, like,
the weight
cutting especially can be.
But also, like, if you end up getting knocked out, you might not come back the
same.
And some of the strategies that should be employed after those fights as well
to actually
restore as quickly as possible and avoid permanent degradation.
Well, it's like there's two schools of thought.
There's one school of thought that I'm in, which we need to expand the weight
classes so
we have more weight classes.
And we need to somehow or another institute some sort of hydration policy where
you cannot
dehydrate yourself and weigh in and pretend that you weigh 170 when really you
weigh 210
because there's a lot of guys doing that.
And the other school of thought is they should be able to hydrate with IVs.
Yeah.
Because they used to be able to hydrate with IVs.
The blood-brain barrier, like, and the hydration of the brain, it takes much
longer to rehydrate
your brain than it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue.
Yeah.
And so these guys are going in there.
Their muscles are full, but their brain is dehydrated and they're vulnerable to
getting
knocked out.
And I think that's what happened with Pereira, particularly with the Izzy fight.
But Izzy caught him with a picture-perfect right hand, just right on the chin,
and then
followed it up with a left hook.
But it was just, he didn't have the durability at 185 that he has at 205.
At 205, he's been dropped, like Khalil dropped him.
Guys have dropped him and, you know, Ankali have rocked him, but he can take it.
He can take it at 205.
Yeah.
And now he's talking about going all the way up to heavyweight, which is kind
of crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, like, all power to him if he does.
Fuck.
Who doesn't want to see it?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I would love to see him fight Jon Jones at the White House.
And what's your ideal White House card look like?
Jon Jones versus Pereira, for sure.
Conor McGregor versus Michael Chandler.
That would be awesome.
You know, you want to have some fun.
Like, that's a fun fight.
You know, and then you'd probably want, like, Islam Makachev versus Ilya Tuporia.
That would be insane.
You know, maybe even at 155.
I don't know if Islam even wants to make 155 anymore, but Ilya said he would
fight him at 170, which is crazy because Ilya is smaller than me.
Like, that's another guy.
Around, wait.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But that's another guy that has the touch of death.
There's guys that just have freaky power.
It's freaky.
Hopefully he doesn't let his personal shit derail whatever is happening.
Oh, I know.
I know.
Like, you're in your late 20s and it's, like, not the time, bro.
I know.
It's crazy.
I don't know what happened.
I don't know what happened with the wife.
I don't know if it's a coincidence, but, I mean, you can't – I'm sure the
internet has their speculation, but the timing is very odd with, like, one of
these interviews he did where somebody was –
almost seemed to plant in his head that, like, if you meet a wife in Miami,
that she's probably, like, not a, you know, good, you know.
Is that where he met her?
I think so, yeah.
And it was, like –
But he lives in Spain.
And somebody – I forget who it was, but somebody, like, jokingly said, oh,
you met – like, it looks like you can meet quality women in Miami.
Crazy.
Like, you would have never thought.
And then he was, like, visibly shook.
He was, like, what do you mean by that?
Oh, no.
And the guy was, like, did I just offend you and you're going to fuck me up or,
like, what is happening right now?
And he just seemed to, like, almost internalize that is there a reason I
shouldn't trust Miami women and I haven't considered it?
And then it's just, like, you can't help but think with the timing.
The fucking wheels are turning.
Oh, God.
I didn't know that he met her in Miami.
I don't know if that's even true because he lives in Spain.
Or if it even is, like, relevant at all, but it's just weird timing.
I would imagine it's relevant meeting a woman in Miami.
Like, I mean, the fact or certainly support that it's, like, a more likely
chance that she's not the person she represented herself as, potentially.
Well, not just that.
It's the culture of Miami.
I always say that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami.
It's, like, people are just partiers.
It's, like, you should have a passport to go to Miami.
It's barely America.
Yeah.
It's fun.
It's a great city.
A lot of fun.
Yeah.
But it doesn't really lend itself to, like, the kind of, like, sturdy, stay-at-home
mom support for a world champion because the discipline involved in being not
just a world champion but a world champion on Ilya's level, you know, like a
two-division dominator, goes up, knocks out Charles Oliveira like it's nothing,
which is crazy.
Not only that, had a celebration the night before the fight.
Oh, yeah.
Celebrating his victory.
That was almost, like, Gordon Ryan shit, like, times two.
Times two.
Yeah, yeah.
And even apologized to Charles.
I'm sorry it has to be you.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I love you.
You're a great guy.
Sorry it has to be you.
Like, super respectful of Charles.
He's a legend, you know, and then flat lines him in the first round, like he
said he was going to.
He's like, he's like, trust me, I'm going to knock him out in the first round.
One punch.
Boom.
Touch of death.
It's like, there's guys that have, and for him, it's like, not a big guy, right?
Like, not extremely muscular.
Like, there's nothing, he's not massive, but it's mechanics.
His mechanics are fucking perfect.
His timing is fucking perfect.
Belief in himself, technique, everything.
It's like all the above, but it's like, there's guys that you can't let hit you,
and Ilya's one of them.
And I think that probably carries all the way up to 170.
I just don't, I mean, the difference between, so 170, look at him, and then
look at some of the big 170s, like Jack Della Maddalena.
He's a fucking big guy.
Like, there's, like, big, like, Michael Venom Page.
He's fucking huge.
That would be a nightmare matchup for Ilya.
If he really did decide to go to 170, a guy like Venom, because you can't hit
that guy.
Like, if you can't hit that guy, and he can hit you, and he's a point-fighting
champion, so that is the absolute best style of the blitz, of, like, being able
to close distance quickly.
Nobody does that like that MVP.
He's the best at it.
The best at it, maybe, of all time.
Yeah, I wonder if it would be kind of like when Canelo tried to go up, and then
it was kind of like—
And he fought Bival.
Yeah.
I could see that sort of being the outcome, where it's not as—
Yeah, could be.
But Canelo, it's, like, later in his career, you know?
But it's, like, there'll be a giant problem.
But also, you have, like, the disadvantage if it's actually MMA versus just
boxing.
But, like, yeah, the guy is one of the most exciting guys to watch.
Has—is a great representative, too.
Yeah.
When he was on your show, dude.
Oh, is it better to just, like, not talk about any of it publicly, and just,
like, keep your relationship shit, like, private, you would think?
I think most of your life you should keep it.
Yeah.
I think social media in general, and not just for famous people, just in
general, is way worse for people than it is good, especially Instagram.
Yeah.
I think many a person has ruined their life on Twitter.
Many a person has said things on Twitter that's tanked their career, ruined
their life.
You know, it's just the motivation to get attention for your words and your
images is very toxic.
It's very dangerous.
And you're playing with explosives.
It's just not smart.
It's just not a good thing to engage in.
I am much happier when I rarely am on social media.
And so I, like, dip my toes in, see what everybody's mad about, and then I get
the fuck out and move on with my day.
And I never try to portray myself in any way other than who I actually am.
I don't, I'm not interested in, like, some fucking, you know, some video
montage with fucking music and inspirational quotes.
If somebody else makes that, that's fine.
I'm not involved.
But I'm not putting anything like that up and checking the likes.
Get the fuck out of here.
That's bad for you.
I think it's bad for you.
The good and the bad.
The negatives, the people hating on you is bad for you.
Like, oh, that's not me at all.
Hey, why are you saying that?
And then the good's not good for you either.
Because then you start believing your own bullshit and think your shit doesn't
smell.
It's crazy.
It's bad for you.
It's the opposite of mindfulness.
It's the opposite of being in the moment.
It's the opposite of that.
Because you're, like, living for other people's attention that you don't even
know.
You don't even know these people.
And you're allowing them to comment on, like, your wife and your family.
You're holding her hand and you're renewing vows.
You're on your knee presenting her a ring in a video.
What the fuck are you doing?
Like, why would you do that?
That's a private thing.
If it's real love, it's between the two of you.
And if it's, like, if you're really working, work hard in silence.
What is this?
What are you doing?
Like, what is all this about?
But it's just for likes.
Everybody is addicted to these likes.
I want to see the numbers.
Only 6,000 likes?
This is crazy.
I bared my soul for you.
I just think it's really bad for people.
And also, it's like most people don't know what fame really is.
They think they do.
And then they get it.
And then they think they can manage it.
And then the fucking psychology behind it and the spinning that goes on in your
mind when you're trying to go to bed and you're worried about all the mean
things people are saying about you.
It's like, ugh.
It's just bad.
It's just not good.
What's the strategy now for you?
Do you have a burner phone or, like, how do you just, like, divorce yourself
from that?
I just don't read it.
I don't read anything.
And I don't.
You did a burner phone for a while.
Yeah.
I, well.
Or it was just fucking annoying to deal with.
Ultimately, I do have a burner phone.
Well, I don't have a burner phone.
I have a phone that I give to people that are just annoying or that I don't
really want to.
Like, I leave it at home.
I never check it.
So there's certain, like, business stuff.
And I don't want business stuff to be entering into my life all the time.
So I want to, I have, like, regimented times where I check things and respond
to people.
But I think my next phone number, which I'm changing soon, is going to be no
social media at all.
And then my other phone number, I'm just going to do that with it.
I'm just going to do my social media posts, all the stuff that I have to do.
Like, hey, I got a show coming up.
Or, hey, this guy was great.
It's a podcast happening.
Post and ghost is what I do.
Post, then get out of there.
But I'm not going to have any social media on my new phone.
I just generally think it's bad for you.
And it gets in the way of, it's an abuse of precious resources.
That's what I think.
So do you have, like, podcasts and stuff on it?
Or, like, how do you, do you entertain yourself with actual social media?
No, I'll entertain myself with YouTube.
It's hard to not, like, have this shit infiltrate when you have, like, a taste
of it.
It's like, before you know it, you're sitting on the toilet looking at social
media or something.
Yeah.
That's another nice thing that I like to do is not look at my phone when I'm on
the toilet.
Just go to the toilet and just leave it there.
I've been leaving my phone on Do Not Disturb, too, which is also a nice thing.
I like doing that.
Put it on Do Not Disturb and check it occasionally.
Every now and then, check it.
And, you know, you could set up Do Not Disturb where certain people can get
through.
Like, my wife can get through.
My kids can get through.
Best friends can get through.
But it's just, like, I think that, for the most part, what you're doing is you're
using very valuable resources on things that aren't valuable at all.
Yeah, it's part of the reason I work best late at night as much as I would love
to have the perfect circadian rhythm and, you know, go to bed at the perfect
time and align it with the sun going down.
It's, like, the only time my phone and all the stuff is not blowing up is in
the middle of the night and I can just focus and not have to think about stuff,
you know, blasting me.
Me, too.
Yeah.
My best writing is always late at night when everyone's asleep.
Yeah.
And that's – also, it's, like, there's something about late at night where
the world seems a little bit more crazy that I think my mind is, like, a little
more tuned to danger and chaos and just, like, it seems, like, more heightened
because it's dark out.
You know, it's dark out and everyone's asleep.
I'm, like, what is the world really made out of?
Like, that's where I do my best thinking.
It's funny because when I look out, I just see, like, calm.
There's no traffic.
Yeah.
And I'm just, like, this is nice.
That, too, but I – night is when I worry about war.
That's when I worry about –
Oh, my God, dude.
Yeah.
That's – I know.
It's not – sometimes I let it get in my head.
That's when I get my most anxiety about the future of the world is, like, night.
There's something about that.
Do you still smoke weed a fair bit or –
Allegedly.
Yeah.
How does that impact?
It's great for writing.
Oh, that's not good for paranoia.
That's what I was asking.
Yeah.
Well, it makes you, like, hypersensitive to danger.
Yeah.
It takes, too.
Yeah.
But it's really great for creativity.
For creativity, there's nothing like it.
And for comedy, it's a steroid.
It's, like, the best – like, it is the best performance-enhancing drug ever
created for writing comedy.
Oh, really?
Yeah, there's nothing like it, like, especially edibles.
Like, you have thoughts that, like, you're like, okay, I don't even know if I
would ever have that thought without weed.
Like, that thought is – weed wrote that joke.
I barely had anything to do with that.
What's the ideal edible dose?
Depends on your tolerance.
Talk to Jerry Diaz.
Zero tolerance.
Oh, 10.
10 milligrams might fuck you up, though.
Maybe 5.
Maybe 5 is good.
You know, that's, like, in the places where it's legal, like, if you go to New
York or L.A., they – I think L.A. has a 10 milligram threshold.
I think you can only get 10.
That's the highest you can get.
10's a lot for someone who doesn't do it.
But, you know, Joey Diaz will pop, like, a 250.
He'll pop a – he'll pop two 50s.
He's a fucking freak, though.
Like, his tolerance is, like, nothing I've ever seen in my life.
Yeah.
He used to dose people.
He would take, like, a 25 milligram edible and he'd take the wrapper off and
put a 250 milligram edible in and give it to his co-host.
Oh, my God, dude.
It's, like, I think it's funny, but, like, I'm not –
It's only funny because it's Joey.
If it was anybody that he didn't love, he'd be like, what the fuck is wrong
with you?
But when Joey does it, he's just, like, oh, my God.
So you just think you're dying, like, unreasonable or something?
Well, you just know, and he's over there laughing.
Ha, ha, ha.
And you're just sitting there spiraling, knowing how he fucked you up.
Yeah.
He just always says, I want to see the devil.
He goes, fuck this microdosing.
I want to see the devil.
He likes seeing the – he likes getting freaked out.
He likes it.
But, I mean, for creativity, I think it has a place.
That's the comedian juice right there.
Yeah, I think, you know, not for everybody.
Some people don't like it at all.
You know, I know some really great comics that are stone cold sober.
And for them, it's just – they just like to sit and think.
But a lot of the best ones that I know, they have switched over to either a
flip phone or a phone with nothing on it.
No social media at all.
I think eventually you realize, like, that time you're spending, which is
scrolling mindlessly through things, it's such precious resources.
You only have so much time in a day.
And you're spending time just looking at nonsense.
But also, the other side of it is, you do want to have your finger on the pulse
of society.
You want to kind of know what's going on in the world.
Yeah, if you're a comedian, how do you even, like, talk about pop culture and
stuff that's trending or whatever?
Well, interestingly enough, I get sent enough things.
Oh, it's, like, consolidated for you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get sent enough things by my friends that are fucked up that I don't have to
go looking.
So I go, Jesus, is that real?
And then I'll maybe, you know, do a search and find out that it is real and
then read about it and go, what?
But that, I think, is probably valuable because it's keeping you informed.
It's the endless, mindless scrolling that I think is the most detrimental and
the one that robs you of the most time because, you know, you could be sitting
down at the kitchen table and all of a sudden you have this plan for the day.
You're going to get going.
You're drinking a cup of coffee.
And then, you know, 45 minutes is gone.
Yeah.
45, you get a brutal fucking workout in 45 minutes, but you didn't do anything.
There's nothing more guilty feeling than having wasted, like, your six to eight
really sharp mental hours, any part of that, on something that dumb.
I feel so bad when I do it.
Yeah.
When I have done it in the past, I just feel like it's such a reason.
And it's like, how did I do it again, you know?
Yep.
How did I let it get me again?
Yeah.
It's like you feel like an idiot or, like, a druggie or something.
It's like.
Well, you are.
You're a low-level druggie, you know?
It's a low drug.
It's not even a good one.
It's not even like, I feel great.
This is amazing.
It doesn't even do that to you.
Sean, Sugar Sean O'Malley had a great quote.
He said, even when I'm just regular scrolling, even if it has nothing to do
with me, he goes, I get a low-level anxiety.
And I'm like, yeah, me too.
Like, it's weird.
And I think that low-level anxiety is like a little bit of, as you know, you're
wasting your time.
Yeah, for sure.
When he fought Marab the second time, he got totally off social media for, like,
months and months.
Oh, probably the best strategy.
Yeah, it still didn't help, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, at least he put in, like, did what he thought would work, though.
Did his best.
I mean, there's a lot of people that will succumb to the pressure at the max
level and check the, you know, what people are saying about them, who's going
to win.
Ugh.
That's the worst, man.
Watching your training, footage you posted.
Mm-hmm.
Seeing if people like it.
Fuck this guy, talking about whatever.
Yeah.
I mean, some people thrive on it.
They like haters.
Bodybuilding's the worst for it, too.
I'm sure it's just as bad as MMA, but it's like your entire physique is, like,
your social media brand.
So it's like you post your physique and then the feedback you get, you kind of
have to look at, I guess, because it's, like, what you compete with, too.
So you're literally taking judge feedback that's subjective and taking what
they're telling you is wrong with your body to fix.
And then you're just bombarded by people in the comments section that are like,
you lost because of this.
You're lazy.
How did you not get in shape?
And it's like even down to the lighting on stage can make you look much worse
than you actually are.
I'm like, you showed up with soggy glutes, bitch.
And it's like, I'm fucking shredded.
Like, what are you talking about?
Soggy glutes is hilarious.
Yeah.
And it's like back in the 90s, I don't know what it was, but it was like some
of the lighting, too, was almost so bad that it gave this granular, sharp,
kind of, like, pixelated but, like, etchy look to the physiques, and it would
look like they were more cut and defined and just better down lighting overall.
And some of these shows, they're so washed out with the high resolution and,
like, the perfect, I want to say perfect,
it's, like, almost overexposed lighting to show what's going on on the stage,
that they look watery and fat even when they're, like,
and I say watery and fat, like, you know, like the fucked up perception of the
fitness industry.
It's, like, proportional to what you're expected to look like.
But it's, like, they could be shredded out of their mind and, like, having
worked so hard to show up in shape and then just get, like,
decimated online from some fucking keyboard warrior who's, like, you're back.
It's, like, too watery, bro.
Go back to the fucking elliptical, you know?
Well, it's also, like, bodybuilding is the sport of ego, right?
Because it's only about what you look like.
Yeah, it's crazy.
That's the whole thing.
It's not about how fast you are.
Like, look, look, Gable.
I was, like, he's not shredded.
Yeah.
You know, but he's the ultimate freak.
Yeah.
You know, like, BJ Penn in his prime.
Like, there's a lot of guys who are, they were never shredded.
They were always just smooth and fucked people up.
David Benavidez, another one, like, elite, world-class boxer, light heavyweight
champion.
Got a little muffin top.
Did you see his last fight?
Benavidez fought Anthony Yard.
Okay.
I might have.
Perfect contrast.
Just happened last weekend.
Oh, I missed that one.
Yeah.
Yard is fucking shredded.
He is an Adonis.
He is a Greek god.
He is literally, like, you look at him, there's no way, if you saw the two of
them, you would
say, that guy on the left that has no abs and is smooth is going to fucking
destroy the
guy on the right.
Nobody would believe it.
See if you can find, yeah, the two of them together.
There's no way.
There's no way.
David Benavidez is one of the scariest guys alive because he's relentless.
He's so fucking skillful.
He's so fast.
He's brutal combinations.
But he's so unimpressive physically looking at him.
And Yard looks like you would expect in a movie.
Like, the perfect scary opponent.
Like, there's Benavidez.
Oh, yeah.
Like, look at him.
I mean, he looks like an athlete, right?
Looks in shape.
But now, where do you see Yard?
Look at Yard.
Oh, shit.
Shredded.
Yeah, like fitness model.
Fucking shredded.
And brutal power, too.
But he just couldn't fuck with Benavidez.
See, go way deep into the fight before he stops him.
Yeah, I mean, Benavidez was just putting it on him.
Just standing right in front.
And Yard, the thing about having that much musculature, there's just a reality
of your, you know, the oxygen.
Yeah.
Just beat the shit out of him, man.
And Yard's really good, man.
He's a really good boxer.
But Benavidez, like, look at the difference in the physiques, man.
His physique is perfect.
Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a limitation for some people, where you're just,
like, sapping up so much oxygen carrying capacity to supply the tissue.
But it's, you know, it's also, there's a skill gap.
I mean, Benavidez is super fucking skillful.
And this is the guy that people say Canelo's been avoiding.
Oh, yeah.
And he kind of probably has.
Because Benavidez is the up-and-coming Mexican champion that everybody loves.
And Canelo is, you know, the king.
And everybody was like, this is the big fight at 168.
And so Benavidez had to go up to 175 to get big fights because Canelo wouldn't
fight him at 168.
Huh.
Canelo is, is he just kind of, like, picking and choosing?
Look at this.
Look at this, bro.
Come on, man.
This fucking guy's good.
He's so good.
How old is he?
And he stands right.
He's young, man.
I think Benavidez is, is he 28?
How old is David Benavidez?
He's young.
Okay.
Young and elite and going through his prime right now.
How old is he?
28.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
In his prime.
You know, he's even more unassuming is, like, half the NHL players that play
hockey.
Oh, really?
Oh, dude.
Like, have you ever seen somebody look more like a frat bro who does not play
sports?
NHL players.
Well, those guys have crazy cardio.
Yeah.
Crazy cardio.
But you would never think.
Like, I used to bounce downtown Vancouver and we'd have the teams come by that
would play
the Canucks and they would come party at the Champagne Lounge and the club that
I was bouncing
at.
And he'd be like, this guy is, like, you know, a professional athlete.
It would be the whole team and half of them looked like, you know, some dude
that's, like,
you'd do, like, a fucking keg stand with at, like, you know, a party.
And that's, like, the max of his athletic capacity is being, like, held up to
chug some
beer or something.
Well, I bet those guys drink a lot.
Oh, yeah.
I bet out of all the athletes that drink, it's got to be hockey players at the
top of
the heap, right?
Yeah.
And they're, uh, they're fucking super athletic or good endurance.
You know, it's, like, just so unassuming physique-wise.
It's, like...
It's all legs.
Yeah.
It's got to be all legs.
I bet they're shredded from the waist down.
Yeah, it's crazy seeing, like, the sport-specific translation in actual, like,
physical, like,
physiology that's conducive to your sport.
You see a sprinter and it's, like, you know he's a fucking 100-meter sprinter.
And then you see, you know, another guy and it's, like, you might not even
think he plays
sports.
You know, I thought that when I went to the professional soccer team here in
town, Austin
FC, these guys have these fucking quarter-horse legs.
And they're, like, real thin upper bodies.
Like, they don't use their arms.
They don't use...
I mean, it's literally...
Unless you're a goalie, you don't use them.
Yeah.
So, they have, like, tiny little upper bodies, massive fucking legs, and insane
cardio.
Because they're constantly sprinting.
They sprint for 90 minutes.
I mean, they're just running around sprinting.
There's a couple outliers that do...
Look up Adam Traore, I think it is.
I might be totally butchering.
But Ronaldo.
Ronaldo's pretty jacked, yeah.
He's jacked.
He's, like, the hyper-optimizer, too.
He really is.
Yeah.
I mean, that guy won't...
Remember, there was a thing where they tried to give him a Coca-Cola, and he
fucking
took it aside and said, no, agua.
Yeah.
And Coca-Cola lost, like, a billion dollars in stock.
Whoa, look at that guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, that guy's a freak.
Yeah, I guess.
Well, there's always going to be freaks out there.
Yeah.
But it's crazy to see a guy like that excel so well, too, out of a sport that
you would
think he'd kind of be, like, barely chugging along.
Well, that's probably just because he's been doing it his whole life, you know,
and he has
unbelievable genetics.
Yeah.
Genetics are a nutty thing, man.
You can't outrun genetics.
But they don't always help.
Like, look at Yard.
Yard has perfect genetics, right?
Yeah.
And then Benavidez, you would look at him and you'd go, oh, that's not the best
genetics.
Like, if he was a bodybuilder, you'd be like, get the fuck out of here.
Yeah, it's crazy, too, because sometimes you might just have, like, nice-looking,
round
muscle bellies, but you don't actually have, like, mitochondrial density to
support athletic
endeavors, so you're kind of just, like, a show thing.
You're just, like, a cosmetically pleasing athlete, but not actually able to
translate
it into anything.
Yeah, that's weird.
I've always thought that was weird.
I always thought that was weird and striking, because there's a lot of guys
that are just
built, like, fucking brick shithouses, and then you'd see them hit the bag and
be like,
this is nuts.
Like, you have zero power.
It's weird.
Yeah, and it's like, you would think objectively more muscle equals, but
sometimes they're,
like, weak as shit, even in lifts.
It's just, like, the development, the hypertrophy they get from it is just
disproportionately better.
That's weird.
Can that be optimized, though?
Like, if they have, like, unbelievable-looking physiques, is it just that they're
not doing
as much because they don't need to to look great?
I think there's definitely specific training for purposes that would be conducive
to sport
that maybe some might be neglecting, for sure, and ways to optimize for, like,
for example,
you don't do hypertrophy work for bodybuilding because it's not conducive,
really, to what you're
trying to get.
And I think some people, they want the best of both worlds, and they want to,
like, look
the part and also perform.
So they might be sapping bandwidth that could be allocated towards more optimal
things that
don't make them, you know, as cosmetically pleasing.
And there's definitely things you can do from a support standpoint when it
comes to, you know,
nutrition, supplementation, et cetera.
But, like, you are ultimately going to be capped to some extent by genetic
coding when it comes
to, like, density of certain receptors.
And, like, you can upregulate it to whatever capacity you can.
But, like, you can only push it so far before you've kind of, you know, chapped
out.
It's interesting because, like, the really bulky guys, they just never have the
same fluidity
that the guys that are built like Benavidez have, where the punches flow and
these effortless
combinations, a perfect technique.
The really jack guys that look like they're destroyers.
Flexibility is so much more limited, too, when you're like that, though.
Oh, yeah.
Unless you really work at it.
Yeah.
Really work at it.
Yeah, and you have to have an intentful approach to making sure you can
maintain, you know,
the flexibility that might otherwise just be innate to somebody who doesn't
have to deal
with a giant deltoid that, like...
Right, right, right.
You know, Jocko.
You know, Jocko.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I've hunted with him before.
And Jocko, like, a correct archery release.
Correct archery release is you're supposed to get a surprise shot.
So, as the shot breaks, your arm kind of goes back like this.
Jocko is so jacked, and he has such limited motion, that his archery release is
like this.
Like, it doesn't...
But he's doing it correctly.
Yeah, yeah.
But it doesn't move the same way.
It's all just Jocko smash.
You know, he's just...
His body is designed to choke the shit out of you.
Yeah.
Like, that's all it's for.
His body's designed to get a hold of you, take you to the ground, snap your
fucking arm in
half.
That's what it's for.
Yeah.
It's just force and strength and, you know...
And it's like, it's funny.
I'm just like, Mike, does your arm not move that way?
He's like, no.
It doesn't go back.
I'm like, that's funny.
Because I'm watching him, watching his archery release.
It's perfect.
But there's, you know...
You watch like a Levi Morgan, a world champion pro archer.
Like, as the shot breaks, their arm just goes back, like, naturally.
Just, like, flows.
His just goes...
It just moves a little bit.
When I was at my peak of bodybuilding size, I was in the middle of a job as a
lifeguard
and teaching swimming lessons to kids.
And part of the teaching swimming lessons would involve showing how to do the
different strokes
of, you know, back crawl, front crawl, breaststroke, all the different things.
And when you're, like, a 265-pound bodybuilder, it gets pretty difficult
because not only do
you just sink harder because you're, you know, mostly muscle, but also, like,
just even trying
to get a straight arm past your head, it's impossible.
So I actually had to stop teaching swimming.
Your ears.
Your fucking shoulders are slamming into your ears.
Like, it would look like you couldn't even do what you were trying to teach,
like, a fucking
six-year-old or something.
Very few guys work on mobility.
A great example of someone who does is Armand Sarukian.
Armand Sarukian, who just wanted to beat Dan Hooker two weeks ago or a week ago,
his mobility
training is fucking super impressive.
Like, he is jacked.
Have you seen Armand?
Yeah, he's pretty.
Shredded.
He's a guy that, like, doesn't pass the smell test.
There's a way to improve mobility, by the way.
It's just a lot of bodybuilders, like, do not care.
Right.
And, like, there is some anatomical limitations, ultimately, if there is
muscles literally in
the way.
But I just want to put it out there, like, I'm sure I could have figured it out
if I cared
at the time.
Perhaps.
But a 265 with your frame?
Oh, yeah.
I would have been limited by, like, the actual anatomy.
But, like, I had no care for optimizing mobility or anything.
I was just like, what's my max bench?
Show a photo of Derek when he was jacked.
When he was super jacked.
Because there's some photos of him out there that are just, you were preposterous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you miss those days?
You ever look at that physique and go, damn, I look pretty fucking good.
No, I mean, I feel like I've come to peace a while ago with not looking like
that anymore.
It's a lot of upkeep, dude, to, like.
Yeah, look at you, then.
Is that your height?
I think you were a little bigger than that at one point.
Yeah.
I think this is, like, a profile picture.
So, yeah, that was a more recent one.
It was probably, like, how I lost 75 pounds in the bottom left is probably,
yeah, right there.
The fat, maybe one of those, that shot probably is one of the bigger ones.
Bro, you got big at one point in time.
Yeah.
Was that how you were before you started lifting?
Oh.
Look at that old school BlackBerry half.
So that dates it just by the phone.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it was, I was, like, trying to be a competitive bodybuilder, and I just
kind of realized that
I could look good for, you know, like, fitness industry, I guess, for kind of
looking jacked
for Instagram or whatever and, like, doing okay at, like, a regional level for,
you know,
a lower tier level of physiques.
But, like, bodybuilding to take it to that next level, it was just, like, a
level of stress
I wouldn't be able to, one, be willing to sustain, and then, two, it just
wouldn't have
been worth it because it was, like, I had tried pushing drugs and, like, I just
wasn't
responding to a level I knew I needed to to continue and justify using that
much.
Is it a genetic thing?
Yeah, so it's, like, your androgen receptor content is a largely predetermined
thing.
There are some things you can do similar to, like, mitochondrial density and
things of that
nature that you can do to upregulate and improve it and certain supplements you
can use.
But ultimately, your number of muscle fibers are going to be limited.
Like, there's going to be people who are just at baseline, you know, chihuahua-looking
humans
that if you put them on gear, they just become bigger chihuahua humans,
essentially.
But, like, they're never going to be, you know...
Jacked.
Yeah, they're never going to get, you know, Mr. Olympia caliber.
And there's a certain, like, muscle belly that's more conducive to looking
bigger and also
being able to support certain body weights is even, like, a health thing, too.
It's not just how well do you respond to drugs, it's also how long can you take
them without
dying, you know?
So it's, like, some of the most highest performing and, like, excelling
athletes are individuals
who can tolerate this stuff and not go, you know, crazy from the...
Some people mentally cannot handle these level of androgens.
And they, you know, it wrecks their sleep, it wrecks their blood work, it wrecks...
They get really early cardiovascular disease.
Psychologically, too, they go crazy.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I've seen deaths in, you know, late 20s, mid-30s, and...
There was a guy that was Vitor Belfort's trainer when Vitor first entered into
the UFC.
So Vitor, when he first fought in the UFC, weighed 200 pounds in his UFC debut
when he
fought Trey Tellegman.
That was UFC 12.
And he was, like, a super athletic, fast, lethal black belt with vicious hands.
And then when he fought Randy Couture, he was 240.
And his neck started at the top of his head.
He just looked like a lion.
It was a giant fucking trap.
Yeah, it was just ridiculous.
He was just ridiculous.
And the guy who was working out with him, this guy Curtis, wound up dying very
young.
And we used to call him garden hoses, because this guy's veins were...
He was so vascular, it was fucking ridiculous.
We worked out next to him, like, bro, you got garden hoses for veins, because
you're fucking
insane.
He was just insane.
And he was so big.
Like, so big.
300 plus.
5'10", 300 plus pounds.
Just fucking jacked.
He was so big.
And, you know, he had Vitor convinced that that was the way to go.
Just fucking hit the gas full speed.
Yeah, I mean, at his peak, he was one of the sauciest dudes, right?
At least, you know, he was, like, the perfect hybrid of athleticism meets, like,
crazy-looking
physique, I would say.
At least at the time, from what I can recall.
Well, the TRT Vitor was Vitor...
So, Vitor on the gear, when he was younger, and then no gear for a while, low
period.
And then, when they had TRT in the UFC, where they allowed it, when it was
legal, which was
a crazy few years.
People call it the TRT Vitor years, where Vitor was just dominating everybody.
It was terrifying.
Him and Overeem are, like, poster child.
Overeem was the...
That is the poster child.
See if you can find a video of Armand Saryukian's mobility workouts.
Do you have it?
Because he does really interesting stuff.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah, like, stuff I've never seen UFC athletes do, but I would think would be
really conducive,
especially to, like, scrambles and weird grappling positions where you want to
have strength and, like,
odd positions of your body where you're stretched out and...
Not that bad.
There's one on the side just showing.
Oh, yeah.
I can't imagine that.
So, this kind of stuff.
Like, this kind of stuff.
Yeah.
Like, look at this.
Like, look at all these things.
So, he's doing these kind of things all the time.
Oh, yeah.
Just to maintain that kind of flexibility along with all that mass and all that
power that
he has.
Yeah, getting out of some of those awkward positions, like, you've got to be
able to get
into weird spots comfortably and...
Yeah, this is...
Look at that.
Like, that's crazy.
That's crazy rotation of his back.
Yeah.
He's got amazing mobility, but I do have to say, he also has back problems.
Oh.
And it might be one of the reasons why he does this.
I mean, yeah, when you go exorcism on the fucking twister machine, I can
imagine he probably
end up with something.
I don't think that's what caused it, honestly.
I think it's probably grappling.
Yeah.
Like, he's a really elite grappler.
There's a video of him grappling with Hamzat, and he keeps up with Hamzat.
Oh.
Two weight classes separated.
Mm-hmm.
And Hamzat is fucking fantastic.
And, you know, they're scrambling.
And it's like a very competitive grappling session.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's...
And circling back to something like, you know, the sauce days and like the
garden hose guy.
I do think it's good that the education is out there, though, for people to be
able to know
how to not die from this stuff now.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's...
Whoa!
That's Curtis.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's him.
Because back then, it would just be like...
Go to that photo again, in the upper left.
That upper left photo.
That's crazy.
That guy was so vascular.
Like, look at his bicep.
Fucking bananas.
Right?
Look at that right bicep.
And his chest.
He's got fucking garden hoses on his chest.
Yeah, full chocolate body.
Chocolate face, too.
He had a chocolate face.
Or melanotan, not the wazzy.
Well, you know the guys that do it now, where they keep their face white,
because they don't
want to be called out for having a black face.
Have you seen that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's funny.
It is funny.
Have you seen the...
I think we looked at the melanotan people.
Is that a peptide?
Yeah, melanotan, too, is a one of the...
I don't know if it's an obscure one, but I guess maybe proportional to some of
the more
widespread ones nowadays, but it's like a melanocortin receptor.
And actually, an analog of it is used for women for hypoactive, like, low
sexual drive.
So, it actually enhances sexual drive, too.
So, there's, like, a component...
There's a version of the drug that doesn't tan you, that just, like, makes you
hornier.
That women are prescribed, called vileci.
And then men, there's no drug approved, but you could theoretically take it.
But it gives you boners and also makes you tanned.
If you take the melanotan, too.
Huh.
Yeah.
So, it's, like, for bodybuilders.
And it also suppresses appetite, as well.
Whoa!
It really does that?
Yeah.
Well, that's a weird...
The lighting on that one on the right is weird.
It's like from the...
Yeah, it's right on the Daily Mail, though, it seems like.
They might have...
No, no, no, dude, this is actually possible.
I like how it says that, too.
Yeah, you can literally manually become black with this drug.
Didn't some lady take that?
She was on, like, one of them Sally Jesse Raphael shows.
Yeah, and she claimed she was black.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And she's like, look at me.
What, are you going to tell me I'm not?
Yeah.
She started talking, like, you know...
Oh, God.
Yeah.
How wild.
Yeah.
What if it did it to your hair, too?
It does.
Really?
Because it's all pigment-related.
So, it does make your hair blacker, as well.
It makes your facial hair darker.
What does it do?
Is there something like that for guys that have gray hair?
Yeah, like, it does it to your...
Is this the lady?
Yeah, this is the lady.
I forgot about this.
Look at her boobs, too.
Oh, my God.
Yeah, it's crazy.
That lady might be insane.
Like, I'm guessing yes.
And it's like, you almost wouldn't even think it's real if you weren't told by
somebody that you actually can go that far.
Like, it's literally, you pick your dose, and the exposure to the sun will
dictate, via the dosage, like, how dark you get.
And you can go all the way.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Full chocolate body.
Is there any side effects?
Yeah, you get really nauseous if you overdo it.
It's actually a really potent appetite suppressor, so it's, like, one of the...
Back in the day, you could find my before and after.
Type in Milano Tan 2, More Plates, More Dates, and you'll see my before and
after.
The last time I used it.
And did you use it for bodybuilding?
Yeah.
Because I'm pale as shit, so, like, for me, the thought of having a tan was
pretty awesome.
There's me with my CPAP mask on.
Why'd you take it with a CPAP mask on?
I was just like, I look kind of fucking treaded.
I'll take a pic.
That's funny.
If you scroll down, you'll see my back before and after.
I have to keep going.
They're right there.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, and that's, like, weeks apart.
So it does tan you.
Yeah.
Dude, you had fucking giant lats, man.
That's nuts.
Yeah.
You could jump off a fucking cliff and fly like a squirrel.
Yeah.
What a weird pose, eh?
You just stand there, like...
Yeah.
Well, bodybuilding is weird, period.
Yeah.
It is odd.
It's just, like, the whole idea is not the function.
It's not performance.
It's just looking giant.
Yeah.
It's, like, some of the exercises don't even translate the way you think they
would, too.
Like, you get really good at the bench press, and then you do something else
that you think
is, like, pushing-related or, like, force production.
It's like, oh, I'm weak as shit here for some reason, even though you thought
it would translate.
But it's not, like, a...
It's almost training neuronal patterns, too, more than even just, like, the
muscle.
And you get hypertrophy, but you're also kind of just, like, training yourself
to get
really good at specific movements in a way that has, like, no application to a
lot
of sports, typically.
Just to look jacked.
There are more, like, functional choices, obviously.
But, like, the ones most conducive to bodybuilding and not getting injured are
oftentimes, like,
you know, the typical kind of, like, beach body style things.
But there are more intelligent choices, for sure.
It's not all of that, but...
That's the thing, though.
It's, like, the guys who lift the heaviest and do it, that's a very odd thing.
Like, and then they wind up getting fucked...
Like, Ronnie Coleman wind up really getting fucked up.
Ronnie was, like, famously one of the heaviest lifters as a bodybuilder.
And for what it's worth, I'm absolutely not, like, above this style of training.
Like, this is, like, what I still kind of do, to be honest.
So it's, like, I do...
You know, I'm still a fan of bodybuilding.
I don't want to, like, speak poorly on it or anything.
And we oversee some of the best bodybuilders on the planet right now as well
and make sure
they can do it as safely as possible because it's still a dangerous sport.
And, you know, you got to take modern knowledge to not screw yourself up
nowadays.
Do you ever tell a guy, like, you just don't have the genetics to ever do this
at a professional
level?
Do you ever have to have that conversation with people?
Like, you're pushing the gear so hard and it's not responding?
Like, if I had a friend, I guess maybe similar to your, like, heart-to-heart
you had with
Shaub about MMA at the time when it was, like, not really worth continuing to
expose danger-wise.
Yeah.
It's, you know, often a lot of these kind of situations happen in bodybuilding
where it's,
like, you have a close friend who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs and you
know it's
just, like, killing him.
And you know that the, like, you're not going to make it to the Olympia.
So, really, like, what are we doing this for?
Yeah.
Do you have better opportunities elsewhere?
Like, I've had that conversation a couple times.
But in general, it's kind of like you kind of have to have the self-awareness
to know.
And I think, fortunately, that's part of where the education comes in is back
in the day,
you wouldn't know that you had the bad genetics.
You just think everyone's taking more shit than you.
Because you wouldn't really, you thought there was a secret that you didn't
know.
There was some special drug that they sourced from Europe that you're not
getting.
Right.
You know, they have the secret, you know, fill-in-the-blank thing that the guru
at the
Olympia level who's coaching all the top bodybuilders has and you just need to
get to the next level
and get your IFBB Pro card and then maybe I'll get to work with that guru and
then he'll
give me access to that drug and then I can take it to the next level.
And then before you know it, a lot of these guys are still grinding for really,
like,
low-level shows or, like, to place poorly even at, like, the entry level of
professional.
And their health is a wreck.
And they're not really going to make it to where they think maybe they're on
the path to.
And so, I don't know.
I think the more, you know, transparent look into it has made a lot of people
more self-aware to check
themselves and also to know if they're even, because you have to respond well
from a health
standpoint too, it's not just how good do I look in the mirror.
If you have wrecked blood work or you have an abnormal anatomical structure of
your heart
before you start subjecting yourself to hormones, these are things that are all
checkable now
proactively.
And you could tell beforehand if you're a good candidate not just from a
muscular response
standpoint but also from a health-tolerant standpoint.
I wonder what, if any, what factor genetic engineering is going to play into
bodybuilding.
Myostatin inhibition.
Yeah.
There is gene therapies that are being utilized now.
They're just not that efficacious.
Is myostatin inhibitors, are they, are people using them now?
Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to integrate them in order to offset muscle
catabolism induced
via GLP-1 agonists, like semiglutin.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
So it's kind of a unique time because not only do we have really aggressive fat
loss agents
that actually work now that are not simply stimming your brain to, you know, to
high hell,
which a lot of the previous drugs worked like that.
Now it's like we have these effective things, but they make you eat so little
that we, now
the next thing is there's all this attention on how to lose healthy weight and
not, you know,
a bunch of muscle weight because there's more education around the importance
of losing,
you know, fat and not muscle, which is metabolically active tissue, health
supporting, whereas if
you just end up skinny fat, you might be no better off than when you started,
depending
on the person.
So some of the more refined currently being developed drugs are like these fat
loss appetite
suppressing agents with concurrent like thermogenic properties for energy
expenditure and then muscle
preservation mechanisms built in that inhibit myostatin or act through other
pathways to
try and keep the muscle on you.
Yeah, Brigham from Waste to Well was explaining that they're using, some people
rather, are
using GLP-1s in conjunction with IGF and they're combining a bunch of different
things to offset
the bone density and muscle loss and then also encouraging weightlifting while
they're doing
it because a lot of people are just taking them and they're just shriveling
because look,
if you starve yourself, you will lose weight, but you're going to lose bone
density, you're going
to lose tissue, you're going to lose everything.
Yeah, that's like one of the, I think, most important components of the usage
of them
is, especially with, you know, women who might be otherwise not even
integrating it into their
regular life, they just end up eating less of what is already a nutrient poor
or protein
poor diet and aren't strength training as much as, I guess, proportionally to
men.
It's becoming more prevalent among women, obviously, which is great.
But like the bone loss and muscle loss is significant among anybody who is
depriving themselves of
nutrients like that and then not doing it.
And heart tissue too.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, everything, you know, you're basically self-inducing malnutrition.
I just, can't you just diet?
I mean, is it, is it, it's really a disciplined thing with what, not with
people that are severely
obese.
Like, I'm in favor of GLP ones for people, like if you're 500 pounds, which by,
but I
do have to say, Jelly Roll did it on the natch.
He did it on the natch.
He did not take GLP ones.
He's not, he's not taking nothing, man.
That guy is just working out every day and he just cut all the bullshit out of
his life.
He got rid of his phone.
He didn't have a phone for, he has one now, but he didn't have a phone for the
fucking
longest time.
Even his fucking, his, when you text him, his, you know, the little image that
shows
up when you got a phone, it's a phone with a fucking red line through it.
Yeah.
What does that mean?
Like, he was just not interested in phones, man.
Oh, okay.
He decided not to have a phone for a long time because he realized it was
negative for his
mental health and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight, but he did it naturally.
He really did.
He did it just through hard work and discipline and just, you know, have you
seen the images
of him now?
No.
Bro, there's a, him on stage with, uh, Alexander Volkanovsky and he doesn't
even look like the
same guy.
He's lost 200 plus pounds.
Oh, nice.
He looks fucking great.
I mean, it's amazing.
One of the things that's tough when it comes to like the assertation that it's
more a willpower
thing than anything, in many cases, I do think it is.
There are a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors and psychological like
tendencies to just be,
you know, it's easier to be lazy than not and just, you know.
It's also the food addiction because you have to eat.
But there are some people who just, if you ultimately have a genetically higher
baseline,
uh, perpetual level of appetite signaling, it's kind of hard to tell that
person like just
fucking, you know, wrench it out, bro.
Like you got this.
And it's like, I know a lot of people in the fitness industry.
Like, look at him, man.
Look how much weight he's lost.
Isn't he incredible?
Yeah, it's great.
Dude, he looks fucking great.
It's really amazing.
No, especially impressive for individuals who are that obese to make that big
of a change.
It's like, it's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a
weight.
Yeah.
And then it's momentum after that.
I watched an incredible video yesterday.
One of the most motivational videos I've ever seen.
Um, I'll send it to you, Jamie, is this kid and this guy is, he's, uh, out of
shape.
He's, he's got high body fat.
And the video is him saying that he wants to work out like David Goggins for a
hundred days.
He doesn't work out at all.
And he goes from, um, I'll send it to you, Jamie.
He goes from being this guy who's like completely out of shape to at the end of
the video, he does
a fucking Iron Man.
You found it?
Yeah.
So this is the guy.
So in the beginning, in the beginning, he's like kind of fat and like, that's
what he looks
like.
And it, you know, he's like motivated by Goggins.
So the first day he runs, he gets up at five 30 in the morning and he runs 13
miles the first
day.
I mean, he's never, he doesn't run at all.
He doesn't work out at all.
He eats junk food and he's running, he's running past McDonald's and shit.
He's all fat.
By the end of it, he's doing an ultra, well, he does an ultra marathon halfway
into it.
And then by the end of it, he does an Iron Man.
And now he regularly runs a hundred mile races.
He got down to 140 pounds.
He's shredded now.
It's really, really impressive.
That's awesome.
Because it's just all discipline.
Look at the difference.
145, 9% body fat.
He started at 184, 27% body fat.
And look, he's all lean now and healthy and he's running a hundred mile races
now.
It's really amazing because he just did it with sheer willpower and documented
the whole
thing.
He's in agony.
His ankles all fucked up from running.
So he swims and he swims in the pool and then he decides to swim with weights
on.
He like really becomes obsessed.
Have you seen the guy who fasted for a year straight?
Yes.
That's an old story, right?
Yeah.
But I think that's still the record for like longest period of not eating and
just like
adhering to a diet.
And he got vitamin IVs.
And the guy who did that, what's interesting is he also lost skin.
So his skin shrank along with his body, which I thought was fascinating.
Yeah.
I mean, I would imagine that to some extent there's some elasticity depending
on how long
you've been fat.
And also like, I don't know, maybe just the tissue itself.
There is some level of 382 days.
I'm sure your body's fiending for energy from anywhere it can find it.
If there was some way to, I don't know, but I think the interesting thing is he
didn't
come around, come out of it looking like a lot of these people do where they
have to get
all their skin removed.
Oh, I mean, I feel like there's gotta be loose skin to some extent.
Does he have a shirtless?
I don't know.
There's, I don't know if it's a shirtless, but that was part of the narrative.
Is that his, his skin actually shrank along with his body because he wasn't
eating at
all.
I want to see that.
Does that make sense?
I mean, I was trying to play along for a sec, but now I'm like, if there's not
a pick,
I don't know, dude.
Well, it was also, it's 1960, whatever it was.
Sounds like a interesting tale that might've passed through the grapevine.
Yeah.
I wouldn't recommend that though.
No.
That sounds crazy.
And then once you start eating again, how do you just keep the fucking floodgates
from
pouring out?
I mean, that's the interesting thing is some people psychologically, it's
easier to adhere
to something when they're full bore.
And then I know a lot of people who they'll do commit to a competition because
they know
I'm accountable to step on stage.
I don't want to look like shit when I'm on stage and they do it.
They get a bunch of photos done.
And then after they go off the rails and they're like right back to where they
started within
a month or two.
That happens to a lot of fighters.
They get done with fighting and then they get really fat.
It's really common.
It's really common because they also develop real eating disorders because you're
cutting
weight all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, for some of them, it's like you're basically like doing bodybuilder
shit, essentially.
Well, Paddy Pimblett's the best example of a current active fighter.
Oh, that guy's crazy, dude.
He gets so big.
Dude, his moon face is like the best in the league, probably.
So here it says, 382 days from June 14th, 1965 through June 30th of 1966, he
consumed only
vitamins, electrolytes, and unspecified amount of yeast, a source of essential
amino acids,
and zero calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water, although
he occasionally
added milk and or sugar to the beverages, especially during the final weeks of
the fast.
Barbieri began his treatment in the hospital, but for most of the 382 days, he
lived at home.
Okay, it says stool samples were not taken, but he reportedly went up to 48
days between
stools.
Wow.
Which sounds crazy, but it's like, what's there going to...
Yeah, what will be coming out?
His starting weight was 456, and the fast officially stopped July 1966.
He reached his goal weight of 180 pounds.
Wow.
Yeah, that's nuts.
The next 10 days, doctors placed him on a diet of salt and then sugar in
preparation for
solid food.
So some sources record the fast being 392 days instead of 382.
Wow.
Now, one of the things that's tough is it's like, even though maybe that case
study exists,
and there's people who just brute force willpower their way through it, some of
those people otherwise
might have genetically been able to tolerate, you know, the hunger signaling
better than somebody
else who literally cannot focus on work or anything when they're that hungry.
And it almost sometimes doesn't even come down to the diet quality as much as
somebody might
tell them, yeah, it does.
Right.
It does to some extent, but it's certainly getting rid of the shitty processed
foods and getting
on a good exercise regimen and doing all the things to set yourself up in the
best position
will probably take care of most people.
But there are some individuals who just like at baseline, even on the inverse
side, I know
a lot of people who simply aren't hungry and they have to force feed themselves
to gain
muscle because they're just perpetually shredded.
And they have like the opposite problem because their hunger signaling is so
low.
So it's like people look at them as an example in the fitness industry of like,
oh, this guy
has the best discipline.
He's like so shredded all the time.
And in reality, that guy's like, I hate food.
That's so weird.
There's one guy in particular.
His name's David Lade.
And he's like, I don't know, like a teenage, well, he's like in his 20s now,
but teenagers
look up to him as kind of like a fitness industry icon of aesthetics.
And he's perpetually had a shredded six pack.
He's pretty jacked.
He's tall.
He's handsome.
And he literally says on camera, I hate eating.
And he's like serious about it.
He's like, I can't stand having to eat meals.
What?
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Like, it's not even just like to be a bodybuilder.
Like, he's just like, I don't know.
What is he eating?
How is that possible?
Good, high quality food.
That's a picture I can find.
I can't tell.
You can't tell.
It looks like he's got some fat there.
Yeah.
It looks like he's got a bunch of extra skin there.
I mean, it's just like.
How could he not?
Yeah.
Yeah.
How could he not?
Find a picture of that other guy.
Who's the guy that they call the most shredded guy alive?
Oh, Helmet Shrubble.
Yes.
That guy.
That guy's crazy.
Yeah.
Find that guy.
That's ridiculous.
What is it?
It's a H-E-L-M-U-T.
It's been a while since I've looked at this guy.
And then S-T-R-E-B-L.
And did they come up?
Helmet Shredded is coming up, that guy.
Helmet Shrubble.
Is this him?
Yeah.
Oh, Jesus.
Yeah.
That is insane.
Yeah.
I mean, that guy's physique is the man with 0% body fat.
That's hilarious.
That's not possible, folks.
You want to see even more shredded?
What is it?
Is that really possible?
That he's got more.
There's someone more shredded than that?
Type in Andreas Munzer.
Oh, I've seen that guy.
But what is this guy's body fat?
I mean.
Zero is not possible.
What is that?
Six?
Five?
Five or six, maybe.
No.
That would be like stage, super stage ready beyond most bodybuilders, even
after the best
of the best in terms of conditioning.
So, I don't know.
Maybe like six, seven.
It's kind of tough, though, dude.
Because it's like some of these guys, they have like.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
Go back to that picture.
That's nuts.
That's like aggressive filtering and sharpening to look as.
Whatever.
Whatever it is.
That's his real body.
That's insane.
Yeah.
Even, I mean, it's obviously like the best possible lighting for that effect.
There's distribution of fat and water that some people, it just looks more
shredded than
another person who might otherwise store any excess fat on like their ass or
like their
love handles or like whatever.
For a guy like that, not only is he diced and like, obviously, he's just diced,
but he
has like a dry look to the skin that enhances the kind of perceived leanness.
And it's like, I forgot what it is.
It's not dick skin lean.
I forgot what the terminology is, but it's like, it's like white guy something.
And it's just like, if you're certain white physiques are known to look more
like you're
almost so pale and dry that it like enhances the perceived leanness, if that
makes like
any sense whatsoever.
Well, that's the weirdest thing about bodybuilding, right?
You have to be super dehydrated to look great and you're almost dead.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you have to, you know, go chocolate body and stuff.
But those guys, they're like, they black out sometimes backstage, don't they?
Yeah.
Whoa!
Yeah, that's crazy.
Which guy's that?
That's Helmut.
That's him?
He's got 4% body fat.
I might be totally butchering his name, by the way.
So if I'm, I hope, Helmut, I hope I'm saying it right now.
I would never wear a shirt.
Why would I wear a shirt?
But it's like, you would not.
He's 47?
Yeah.
Wow.
In this article, too, which is probably like 5 to 10 years old.
What does he look like now?
I wonder if he keeps it up.
Because, I mean, I would be so hungry.
Yeah.
Unless you're on a GLP.
Oh, this is him.
This is him now.
Wow.
That's crazy.
No, that's not.
That's got to be other.
It's not?
It's in the same photo someone else was.
Oh, somebody else put it up there?
I don't think he has an IG.
It doesn't seem like.
That's one of the weird things.
You're such an OG of the industry that you just have like weird residual fan
pages and you
don't even know if it's the guy or not.
What's that old guy?
He was bald the old days.
He had like the hair on the side.
Scooby.
Was that his name?
I don't know.
Maybe.
White guy.
Scooby.
He was like famous shredded guy back in the early days of bodybuilding.
He was not big.
He was thin, but he was like super fucking ripped.
God, I can't remember his name.
Was he?
But he had like the hair on the side, like weird, like old man bald, you know,
didn't
have a full shaved head.
Old man bald.
Yeah, he looked like when people went bald in the 50s and they didn't shave the
side of
their head.
Yeah.
Fuck.
I'm sure if I saw it, I would know who you're talking about.
He was famous for teaching.
You got him?
I feel like you have enough.
What's his name?
I don't even get a name yet, but is this him?
No.
No, that's not him.
It's older.
I bet you.
It's from a long time ago.
Fuck.
Who's the, what's your preferred AI search tool?
Is that, and type in what you just said.
Yeah.
Put that into perplexity.
Old man bald.
Well, I mean.
OG fitness influencer.
You have to give me a better search for a time period, like 90s, 2000s.
Yeah, yeah.
90s.
All right.
Yeah, 90s.
90s.
Oh, God.
His name is at the tip of my tongue.
Oh, this is driving me crazy.
Super shredded?
Yeah.
He would teach people how to be shredded.
He had like this protocol for how to lose weight, but his whole thing was being
shredded.
It wasn't that big.
I mean, he was, you know, fit, but not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked.
And he was Caucasian?
Yes.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's telling me Billy blanks.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
White guy.
Fuck.
I was going to say Athlean-X, but there's no way that's who you're talking
about.
No, no, no, no.
She's got great hair.
It's a long time ago.
No, Athlean-X has got wonderful hair.
It's Tony Little.
It's not right either.
Speaking of hair, there's that new thing that is the study out of UCLA where
they're going
to be able to grow hair back.
Yeah.
Isn't that wild?
Like pumped?
You don't believe it?
No.
Dude, it's like every week it's some new thing.
Like, rodent re-grew hair after being shaved bald using UCLA-mediated broccoli
extract or
whatever the fuck.
And it's like now every Reddit scientist is dumping fucking broccoli juice on
their head
or whatever.
It's just like never really pans out ultimately.
And it's pretty shocking.
I think I even mentioned this at one point that we have all these, you know,
refined AI tools
and drugs and some of the most developed and refined, nearly side effect-free
drugs for
some things that are pretty significant, you know, roots of disease.
But like hair loss, like no one has a clue.
Right.
How to fix it with a crush.
Or dick size.
Hair loss and dick size.
Two big ones.
We know to max out your genetic capacity for dick size, though.
Well, the nuttiest thing that I've been paying attention to lately is so many
guys that are
getting their legs broken to get taller.
I got an update on that guy if you wanted to say.
Oh, the Sasquatch guy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
How's he doing?
Well, I mean, he's walking, but it's like not perfect.
But it's been a few years, right?
Yeah.
But he's also like the most extreme edge case example of, it's almost, if it
was unfair to
use the guy as a reference point, it's like this is the heaviest, tallest
example.
So it's like if anyone was going to have.
Because he was six feet when he started, and he got to 6'6", and he was not
walking like
a year later.
Yeah.
He needed crutches.
He said, let's see, I could send this to you if you wanted to put it up on the
screen,
or I could just show you here.
Yeah, just text it to me.
What is he?
Is he okay?
I mean, he got sued by the company that did his surgery.
He got sued?
Yeah.
Why did he get sued?
Because he was talking about all like the mishaps that happened when he got,
because it's
kind of like there are good clinics and bad clinics in terms of quality.
And he kind of was, I guess, too forthcoming about like I did a podcast with
them and they
didn't like it.
They're suing him.
Yeah.
Literally.
Well, they did sue him, yeah.
How can you sue someone for telling the truth about a procedure that didn't
work out so
great?
I mean, great question.
That's what I said.
How could you win?
Maybe you could sue someone for a lot of things.
Maybe it's just like bury them in fees or something.
I don't know.
Yeah, probably.
All right, check.
See if this came through.
Hopefully my LTE is good.
Nope.
Not yet.
You can airdrop it to my computer if it pops up.
Okay.
Yeah, there you go.
So he's still fucked?
Yeah.
One sec.
God damn, man.
Yeah, I was watching this guy yesterday on Instagram.
This fairly thin kid.
He wasn't big, but he gained five inches.
You know?
He was like 5'5".
Now he's 5'10".
Yeah.
And he's real happy with it.
But I was like, Jesus Christ.
And a year later, again, in crutches.
One year later.
It took him a year and a half before he could walk normally.
I mean, some people, that's still worth it to not have to, yeah.
I guess.
Yeah.
I mean, if you're five feet tall and then all of a sudden you're 5'7", I guess.
Here, see if it, did it come through for you?
Yeah, yeah.
I was just trying to figure out what to play.
I airdropped it.
Oh, I got it.
I got it.
I got it on the screen.
Nice.
Okay.
So, this is 2023.
Oh, wow.
He did it way back then?
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Look how skinny his legs are.
That's crazy how skinny his legs were.
To have that much mass up top, that's crazy.
Yeah.
That's probably the problem, right?
Well, it definitely is, like I said, the most extreme of circumstances to
impose for what
was seemingly a poor quality clinic and then also trying to go from a height
that's objectively
tall to a height that's objectively extremely tall with the most heavy guy that's
probably
ever done the procedure, you would think.
Yeah.
Well, he's 300 pounds.
I think he was way more than that.
You would say, like, hey, man, if you're going to do this, lose upper body
weight and then
gain it back so you can give your legs a chance to grow.
Oh, my God.
That's so crazy.
It just makes me freak out because I'm getting anxiety that they're just going
to snap and
he's going to fall over.
Yeah.
There definitely is something a little bit unnatural about watching even, like,
the strikes on the
ground.
Yeah.
It makes you feel like something's just going to, like...
Snap.
Yeah.
But to his credit, I mean, like, the guy literally couldn't even walk before
and he's optimistic.
He's optimistic about it still and he thinks he's going to make a full recovery.
There is now November 2025, so that's two years later.
Two years later, he can walk.
What if he has to run from a fire?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, he's fucked.
For sure.
Yeah.
Well, also the mechanics.
Like, your body's used to moving legs that are six inches shorter and now, like,
the
knee has different pressure and, you know, it's got to be really fucking
strange.
He said, let's see, bones are mostly healed, just have a lot of weakness.
As legs strengthen, the pain decreases and the spasms.
Also, he's got to be on the sauce too, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, even that's not helping?
I mean, if anything, it would be...
It would help in some of the recovery for bone, but it would also keep him yoked
and,
like, more pressure on that too, so, like, maybe it's, yeah, it's a bit of a
double-edged
sword there.
He says, major hurdles cleared, infection, knee tendinopathy, will probably
walk normal
within a couple months.
I can hop, but will need to strengthen much more in order to really jump, jog,
and run.
Applying to have a U.S. doctor fully fix any remaining issues, but for now,
legs are good.
Where'd he get his surgery done?
It was, I did a podcast with him last year, and I think it was Thailand Clinic,
where it's
like a...
Oh, boy.
He did a bargain.
He got a bargain.
Did he do a Groupon?
It definitely wasn't the best choice.
This guy got it?
He's nine years post-surgery.
They were doing this nine years ago?
So, this guy, as far as I know, he is a bit of a unique case in that he was
actually
correcting an asymmetry, so he had...
Oh.
I'm almost positive.
I don't want to misspeak.
I'm sure he'll correct it if he sees this, but I'm pretty sure he had one leg
was like
unusually asymmetrically shorter than the other one, and then he was kind of
evening it out
to what would otherwise be his, you know, like genetic symmetrical match.
Oh, interesting.
So, there's different applications to which people do this, and it's not always
just like
pure vanity.
I want to get, you know, really tall.
It's sometimes like to correct a functional like asymmetry.
It's just, you know, a lot of people, you hear about the cases of, I want to
get really
tall for superficial reasons.
It's just a matter of time before they're just genetically engineering
everybody to look
like Thor.
You know?
This is a matter of time.
I think there's a lot of people that don't want this to work though, too,
because it's
like, if it's almost too easy or like, you know, doable, it's just like some
people, I
say a lot of people unreasonably shit on these people, and it's just like, you
know, just take
the content for what it is, you know?
Yeah, no, that's true.
But what I'm saying about with the genetic engineering, there's a lot of people
that are
going to not want that to work either, but tough shit.
You're not going to hold back science, because you don't like the fact that,
especially if
someone has poor genetics, and they just look gross, and their whole life they've
looked
gross, and then all of a sudden something comes along, and it's like, what?
And now you're a fucking supermodel, and you're six foot six, and like, Mike?
It's you?
What the fuck happened?
I went to this clinic in Turkey, and look what they did.
Yeah, that was like, you were asking about what-
Have you talked about this before?
Bone smashing?
What?
I just saw a video about this, and then thought it was fake, but this seems
like a place to
find out if it's real.
Oh, yeah, so people are like-
With a hammer?
Yeah.
What?
Whatever they can do.
I'm pretty sure this is not like an- it's like a click-baity thing among the
people that
do this stuff.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
He's hitting himself with a fucking hammer?
So a kid was just using like a trophy, just banging his face all day.
He's like, I've been doing this for years.
So they like think that they can induce acute like bone remodeling in the area
to kind
of like enhance, I don't know, zygoma development or what have you, and get
better, you know,
whatever asymmetry or deficiency they deem to have cosmetically corrected.
And some of them, they're just punching their face essentially before they go
out at nighttime
to get like a temporary pump in their cheeks.
So like think about back in the day when you went to the club and you're like,
I want
to hit some-
You do push-ups first?
Yeah.
Oh my God.
So it's like you're laughing and they're probably like, bro, it's the same
thing.
You're fucking punching your cheekbones to get them to stick out more.
Yeah.
Oh God, it's so dumb.
There's so much out there, man.
Yeah.
Listen, man, this is great.
Congratulations on this.
So for everybody that wants to buy it, Gorilla Mind, I've been drinking it for
two hours now,
three almost.
It's great.
Works.
No, thank you, man.
I feel like I haven't had a cup of coffee in the entire podcast.
That's unusual for me.
But it tastes good too.
How many flavors you got?
A lot, man.
15 plus.
We've got to narrow it down to the best ones, though, to really dial in the
catalog.
If somebody wants to buy this, order it.
Where's it at?
GorillaMind.com.
We're in GNCs, vitamin shops across the country.
We're going to be in Circle K soon and soon to be more spots, hopefully.
Congratulations on that.
And for everything else that you do, GorillaMind.com.
Yeah, yeah.
And MeriHealth.com if you want to get preventative medicine, expert oversight
when it comes to
diagnostics, optimization, et cetera.
All right, brother.
Well, it's always good to hang out with you.
Very fun.
Thanks for having me, man.
My pleasure.
My pleasure.
And again, congratulations.
This is legit.
I'm going to buy it.
All right.
Bye, everybody.
See you.
See you.