#2400 - Katee Sackhoff

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Katee Sackhoff

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Katee Sackhoff is an actor known for such roles as Kara "Starbuck" Thrace on "Battlestar Galactica," Bo-Katan Kryze on "The Mandalorian," and Vic Moretti on "Longmire." In addition to her work on-screen, she hosts "The Sackhoff Show" podcast. www.kateesackhoff.com www.youtube.com/@KateeSackhoffOfficial https://kidsvcancer.org/

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Timestamps

0:00Battlestar Galactica, Starbuck casting, and why sci-fi/entertainment matters
9:59From audience "mass hypnosis" to K-pop anime obsession, then Battlestar Galactica backlash and legacy
19:58Battlestar Galactica, AI as an emerging life form, and the ethics/impact of generative tech

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Transcript

0:00

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

0:03

The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:05

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

0:09

Especially in Hollywood, right?

0:13

You always have a little bounce with those guys standing there with the big...

0:17

You always need someone like wandering around in front of you,

0:21

especially when you get to a certain age.

0:22

You're like, can we just put Vaseline on the camera?

0:25

Oh, like a filter?

0:26

Yeah, exactly.

0:28

Yeah, my wife actually likes it when her lens on her camera phone is blurry.

0:32

A little dirty?

0:33

She's like, gives you a little filter.

0:35

Yeah, I'm sure they offer that filter.

0:37

Slightly dirty lens.

0:38

Yeah, smudgy lens.

0:40

So, really nice to meet you.

0:43

It's nice to meet you.

0:44

You were a part of, I think, the most underappreciated sci-fi show ever.

0:49

I think at the time, absolutely.

0:51

I mean, even now, I don't think people talk about it enough.

0:54

It was a fucking great show.

0:55

And I was so skeptical about Battlestar Galactica,

0:59

because when I was a kid, I watched the original series.

1:01

And then there was a new one coming out.

1:03

And I was like, oh, come on.

1:05

And then somebody told me, I forget, one of my friends,

1:07

one of my comedian friends, like, dude, you got to watch this show.

1:09

It's fucking great.

1:10

Like, it's not what you expect.

1:11

Like, you'd think it would be like the old Battlestar Galactica,

1:14

which is kind of sort of corny a little bit.

1:17

But it was a really fucking good show.

1:19

When did you watch it?

1:20

When it was on or after?

1:21

No, when it was on.

1:22

Okay, so originally.

1:23

Yeah.

1:23

Yeah, it was, um, God.

1:26

Like, when I first got the script, it was, like, 2001.

1:30

And I was a 21-year-old kid.

1:32

And at that point, I'd been playing, like, stereotypical blonde roles.

1:37

You know, I was in a movie where you were like, please die.

1:40

You know, like, I was that girl, you know.

1:42

And so I knew that if I could change my career, I needed to change it.

1:47

And I saw this script.

1:48

That's hilarious that you're thinking, I need to change my career at 21.

1:51

At 21.

1:51

That's how crazy the hourglass is in Hollywood.

1:55

I was like, this is, I got seven years left.

1:57

So crazy.

1:59

That's a fucking sketchy job.

2:01

I know.

2:02

And so I was like, what am I going to do, right?

2:04

And I saw this script, and Ron Moore had put a, like, an entry page on the

2:12

front of the miniseries.

2:14

It was, like, a Bible that he called it.

2:16

And it was him saying what he wanted to create and what he wanted it to look

2:19

like and what his intention was behind the show.

2:22

And that one page was so moving that it could have been, I don't, it didn't

2:27

even matter what it was on the inside.

2:29

I was like, if this guy is in charge, it's going to be amazing.

2:33

And as soon as I got introduced to Starbuck, like, reading that script, I was

2:38

like, this is it.

2:39

Like, this is, this is the character that, if I can book this character, like,

2:45

it will change the way that people see me in this business.

2:49

And granted, I was 21.

2:50

People were not talking about me.

2:52

Right.

2:52

You know, I'd been working for five years at that point, and pretty steadily.

2:57

Like, I had a good career going.

2:58

But, like, I was not someone that, like, people called home about yet.

3:03

I was, I was on the list, you know.

3:04

Right.

3:04

But that show changed everything.

3:07

Well, it was also a risky thing because you were playing a role that was played

3:12

by a man.

3:13

Mm-hmm.

3:14

So that was a thing where there's, like, a little bit of, oh, there's a girl

3:18

playing Starbuck now.

3:20

Yeah.

3:21

I know.

3:22

It was really strange.

3:22

So I, I was, like, almost had booked the part, or was, maybe I'd booked the

3:27

part.

3:28

I don't quite remember.

3:28

And I called my dad, who's a huge science fiction fan, and raised me on, like,

3:31

sci-fi.

3:32

And I was, like, I'm, I booked this job.

3:34

And he was, like, that's amazing.

3:36

What is it?

3:36

And I said, Battlestar Galactica.

3:38

And he went, oh, my God, that's great.

3:39

I watched it when I was, you know, younger.

3:41

And he was, like, Hugh, you're playing?

3:42

And I said, Starbuck.

3:44

And he was, like, oh, fuck.

3:46

You need to go watch this.

3:51

And I was, like, okay, all right.

3:54

So I, like, tromps on down to, you know, Blockbuster Video, and I rent the VHS,

4:00

maybe?

4:01

The DVDs.

4:01

I don't remember what it was.

4:02

Yeah, probably.

4:02

And I'm sitting on the couch with a girlfriend, and we, like, opened a bottle

4:05

of wine, and we're, like, watching this to, like, be, like, okay, what's my dad

4:08

talking about?

4:09

And at some point, she looked at me, and they were, like, talking about Starbuck,

4:13

and I was, like, that's so weird.

4:14

We must have missed her.

4:15

Where is she?

4:17

Oh, that's funny.

4:18

And we rewound it a little bit, and I was, like, oh, crap.

4:21

It's a guy.

4:22

And then I turned it off, and I never watched it again.

4:25

Because I knew that in that moment, it wasn't the same character.

4:29

It's not the same show.

4:30

It's not the same show.

4:31

It's kind of crazy that they did that, because they made a way better show

4:35

about a show that was just kind of nostalgic.

4:38

It was.

4:39

I mean, it really only existed for a year, I think, and then they had, like, a

4:43

movie or two afterwards.

4:44

But it was a very short-lived show, and I always find it absolutely amazing.

4:52

Ron Moore is a genius, by the way.

4:54

Like, he's absolutely, to be a fly on the wall of that brain would probably

4:58

just explode in my head.

4:59

But he, the fact that he saw what he saw and led the charge on that show and

5:05

brought the people on board that he did that had the same vision, if not, you

5:11

know, hire people that are better than you.

5:14

You know, and so he hired people that added to the vision that he wanted to

5:18

create.

5:19

And he, man, the fact that he saw that from the original was pretty amazing.

5:25

Yeah, kind of crazy.

5:26

Yeah.

5:27

Because the original show was basically a ripoff of Star Wars.

5:29

It was.

5:30

They were just trying to make a Star Wars TV show.

5:32

I think so.

5:33

I mean, I think that, you know, Starbuck was Han Solo.

5:36

Right.

5:36

Right.

5:37

Right.

5:38

And the Cylons were kind of like stormtroopers.

5:40

They were.

5:41

Like robot stormtroopers.

5:42

It was pretty.

5:43

Yeah, exactly.

5:44

I don't know who Daggett the dog was.

5:46

No, no, no, no.

5:47

I mean, what they did was, you know, they took like a, they said, like, I see

5:52

what you're trying to do, but I, this could be a real show.

5:57

Yeah.

5:58

I mean, and it came out in a time where science fiction was allowed to be

6:04

incredibly topical and it was always dismissed as, oh, that's just science

6:10

fiction.

6:12

It's not real.

6:13

So Battlestar was allowed to talk about controversial things that were

6:17

happening currently in the environment and in our country and abroad.

6:22

And it was allowed to do so because everybody just dismissed it as sci-fi.

6:26

And so it's incredibly moving, the show, and people identify with it.

6:33

The thing that I hear the most about the show, I mean, maybe not the most, but

6:36

one of the things is when I go to sci-fi conventions, someone will inevitably

6:41

come up with a DVD box that is just beat to shit.

6:44

It's dirty.

6:45

It's like they don't even know if the DVDs play anymore.

6:48

And they're like, you know, this came with me when I was, you know, stationed

6:54

in Afghanistan or Iraq or, and it passed through the entire barracks and it got

6:59

us through.

7:00

Thank you.

7:01

And that to me is really amazing that a fictional show about people searching

7:13

for earth can be so important and relevant to people that are in the military,

7:22

which is, it says something for the writing.

7:27

Well, people need an escape and that's one of the things like entertainment is

7:31

dismissed, especially like fantasy entertainment, like sci-fi.

7:35

It's dismissed as being nonsense, but escape is not nonsense.

7:38

It's actually like brain medicine.

7:40

Like you need it.

7:41

You need a little escape.

7:43

Of course you do.

7:44

And especially if like it's an escape that's also inspirational and interesting

7:48

and fascinating, it occupies your mind and it frees you up.

7:51

If you're in the middle of a fucking war zone and you can take some

7:55

entertainment value out of a television show that's about robots that are

8:00

trying to kill everybody.

8:02

Yeah.

8:02

It's like very valuable.

8:04

Some of the hardest moments in my life, current and in the past, have been,

8:10

have been able, I've been able to get through them because of television and

8:14

film.

8:14

Not because like I'm in it.

8:16

Yes.

8:17

The fantasy of going to work and being somebody else absolutely takes you out

8:21

of your own skin for a second.

8:22

But like, you know, going through the health struggles with our daughter,

8:27

watching TV with her completely transports you to a different place.

8:31

Right.

8:32

You know, I mean, we can all do that.

8:34

We can all relate to that.

8:35

So.

8:35

I mean, you can get too much of it in your life where you're just wasting your

8:38

life away.

8:39

But as a supplement.

8:40

Oh, yeah.

8:41

Of course.

8:42

I think that entertainment is very important.

8:44

It is.

8:45

And it's also that I think we get something very value about out of viewing

8:49

other people's creations.

8:51

I think there's something to that.

8:53

When a group of people put together something really cool and when it's over,

8:56

you're like, wow, that was fucking awesome.

8:58

Art is really important.

9:00

Yeah.

9:00

I think that, you know, creating just art in any medium is really important

9:06

because it transports people.

9:09

It makes them feel something.

9:10

Whether it makes you feel, whatever it makes you feel.

9:14

Yeah.

9:14

It's incredibly important.

9:16

One of my favorite things is to go to a concert and experience live music with

9:20

a crowd.

9:21

It is absolutely amazing.

9:23

Yeah.

9:24

It's amazing.

9:24

Yeah.

9:25

It's a different thing.

9:26

It really is.

9:27

Because you're, there's some sort of a mind meld with the entire audience.

9:32

Yeah.

9:32

Where you feel this energy of everybody enjoying the same thing together.

9:36

It's like the shared happiness.

9:37

It's the same with a comedy show.

9:39

Sure.

9:39

I mean, it's that, it's when an audience is with you when you're, I mean, it's

9:43

got to feel like the same thing.

9:44

You can tell instantaneously if the audience is going to be good if you've won

9:47

them over, I would imagine.

9:48

Yeah.

9:49

There's that.

9:50

But there's, you know, there's also just the thing of, there's the thing of,

9:54

you're kind of, when you're a comedian, you're kind of almost like a passenger

9:59

at a certain point.

10:00

And you're really just, you're just, you know what to do.

10:04

And you sort of like leave yourself out the door and just go into it and then

10:10

perform it.

10:11

And then it becomes alive.

10:13

And then you're riding it.

10:14

And then the audience rides it with you.

10:16

That's when it's at, like, at the best.

10:18

But it's like a, it's a mass hypnosis is what it is.

10:22

It's like everybody is on the same mind page.

10:25

And that's the same with a great concert.

10:27

You know, when a great song comes on and your body literally changes, like,

10:31

fuck, yeah.

10:32

Like, there's a feeling, like a drug that comes over you because you hear a

10:36

great song.

10:36

I'm literally laughing because, like, I don't, I don't know if you've got, your

10:41

kids are, like, in the right age of this.

10:43

But, like, so K-pop Demon Hunter is, like, taking over the world right now on

10:46

Netflix.

10:47

Our daughter is four.

10:50

And we were, like, a little reluctant.

10:53

But I was, like, everyone's talking about this thing.

10:55

And, like, she'd already heard some of the music.

10:57

So I was, like, let's try it out.

10:58

And there were a couple moments that were, like, a bit, we were, my husband was

11:02

a bit uncomfortable with some of, like, the sexualization aspects of it.

11:07

Just the girls wearing more adult clothes.

11:09

She's three and a half.

11:09

Is this an anime show?

11:10

It's anime out of Korea.

11:12

K-pop Demon Hunter.

11:13

There it is.

11:13

Oh, hot anime ladies.

11:15

It is.

11:16

The music from this thing is absolutely phenomenal.

11:22

What is going on with their bodies?

11:24

The message.

11:24

Well, the animation is really interesting, actually.

11:26

It's really interesting.

11:27

But it's the message behind it, fighting your own demons, believing in yourself,

11:33

owning who you are, not hiding an aspect of yourself that you're ashamed of,

11:38

but making it part of who you are and being proud of it.

11:42

It's, like, a very good message, like, even for, like, a four-year-old.

11:46

But the music is taking over the world.

11:49

And we didn't realize how crazy this was.

11:51

I mean, the final straw where I was, like, fine, we'll let her watch the damn

11:54

thing, she was at music class and one kid started singing this song from K-pop

11:58

Demon Hunter.

11:59

And within, I shit you not, like, 20 seconds, every single kid was singing

12:04

these songs.

12:05

And these are not easy songs to sing.

12:07

They're half R&B, like, half rap.

12:09

Like, I mean, these are hard songs.

12:11

And these five, six-year-olds have this thing memorized.

12:15

And I was, like, oh, my God.

12:17

And so we sit down and we watch it.

12:20

Phenomenal.

12:20

We've seen it three times.

12:21

It's so good.

12:23

I was listening to the soundtrack on the way here.

12:25

I was, like, this shit's, like, this is amazing.

12:27

And then I'm Googling, is K-pop Demon Hunter going on concert tour?

12:31

Like, are they going to go?

12:31

Because I really want to see the show.

12:32

How could they go on tour?

12:34

Are they real people?

12:34

And they are, and they're real musicians.

12:36

Wait a minute.

12:37

So there's real musicians that are at the heart of this?

12:39

Yes.

12:39

The stars of K-pop Demon Hunter will make their first ever live concert

12:41

appearance.

12:42

Stop it.

12:43

Well, wait a minute.

12:44

How is that possible?

12:45

They're not human.

12:46

So it was actually, they all are.

12:48

So the music is created.

12:50

There's video out there of the girls singing the songs, the song Golden, the

12:53

three of them.

12:54

What do they look like?

12:55

Do they look like Taylor Swift, too?

12:56

They look a little like their characters.

12:58

Because those ladies all have Taylor Swift bodies.

13:00

These long, long-

13:02

No, I honestly haven't paid attention to their bodies, to be honest.

13:04

Because they're such phenomenal singers.

13:07

They're so stylized.

13:08

One of them has the diamond studs on her teeth when she was singing.

13:15

And our daughter was like, what is this?

13:17

I was like, you're too young.

13:19

You can't have diamonds on your baby teeth.

13:21

I mean, I guess if you're going to get diamonds on your teeth, put them in the

13:24

baby teeth, right?

13:25

Right.

13:25

But I was like, no, we're not there yet.

13:27

But she, I love the message behind it.

13:29

But the music is infectious.

13:31

That's really phenomenal.

13:32

And I want to go to one of these concerts.

13:35

That's hilarious.

13:36

What do they look like, Jamie?

13:36

So now I guess I'm going to Jingle Bell.

13:37

What are the actual, because that's like if you have these anime characters

13:41

that represent the music,

13:43

and then all of a sudden you see a human doing it, you're like, huh?

13:45

Yeah.

13:46

It probably needs to be better if AI made the music.

13:48

Stop it.

13:49

It will never be better if AI makes the music.

13:53

You just broke my soul, Joan.

13:55

AI is making some really good music.

13:56

It's also making some great podcasts.

13:58

It's very uncomfortable.

14:00

I don't know about that.

14:01

I've heard that it's coming out with podcasts, right?

14:03

Oh, they're the ladies.

14:03

Yeah.

14:04

Quite lovely.

14:06

Do they look like the characters a little bit?

14:08

Oh, look at the lady's crazy hair.

14:09

So they're going to go on tour.

14:12

Are they going to have, I wonder if they're going to have the show playing in

14:14

the background.

14:14

So, and the lead girl that plays Rumi wrote a lot of the songs as well.

14:20

Like, they're just phenomenally talented.

14:22

Isn't it interesting like Korea has like their own style of pop music, like K-pop.

14:29

Very influenced by the U.S., I think, too.

14:32

Oh, for sure.

14:32

And rap music and R&B music in the U.S., I think.

14:36

Yeah.

14:36

So when you decided to take the role of Starbuck, was there any, like, was

14:42

there any, like, actual

14:44

backlash where people were like, this should be a guy?

14:47

Yeah, there was.

14:48

There was?

14:48

The first time we went to Comic-Con in San Diego.

14:51

Oh, those nerds.

14:52

They had us in Hall H.

14:54

And I was booed.

14:57

Shut up.

14:59

I was booed.

15:00

It was pretty.

15:00

No way.

15:01

Yeah.

15:02

So I, and I had learned, because everyone, the internet did not exist yet, mind

15:06

you.

15:07

It was like brand new.

15:08

Right.

15:09

You had to go down to the internet cafe, buy 30 minutes, log on.

15:12

By the way, how crazy is that to say?

15:13

Yeah, right?

15:14

That the internet didn't exist.

15:15

That wasn't that long ago.

15:16

No.

15:16

2003, we were shooting.

15:18

That's crazy.

15:19

Isn't that crazy?

15:19

It was barely an internet back then.

15:20

Barely an internet.

15:21

So I went down to an internet cafe, because someone was like, I guess they're

15:25

talking about the

15:26

show in these message boards.

15:27

And I was like, what's the internet?

15:29

So I went on down.

15:31

I logged on, and I saw this thread, and just the hate that I was getting in

15:38

this thread.

15:39

I was like, oh, don't Google yourself.

15:43

Google, I don't even think was a thing.

15:44

I was like, don't search yourself.

15:46

Don't Netflix Navigator yourself.

15:47

Ever.

15:49

And then we went to Comic-Con, and I was booed, and I think it upset me a

15:54

little bit.

15:55

I think it did.

15:56

I would be lying if I said it didn't upset me.

16:00

But luckily, there were enough people that were championing the show that I

16:08

really didn't

16:09

pay any mind of it.

16:10

And I was also in that age where it was the perfect age.

16:14

I mean, I think now it would probably break me.

16:16

But at 23, I was like, it was like the blissful ignorance of youth, you know?

16:20

Like, I didn't think the show would last anyway.

16:23

So it was like, you know, whatever.

16:25

Like, not a big deal.

16:26

Just a blip on the radar.

16:27

Like, I'm in Hall H, you know?

16:31

And then I think that it slowly started winning people over.

16:35

And then I would go to cons after that.

16:38

And the line would be longer, and the people would be more supportive.

16:42

And people would say, I didn't want to like it, and I love it.

16:45

I almost feel like the show was burdened by the original show.

16:49

That sounds crazy.

16:50

But I think initially it was burdened by the expectations of the original show.

16:54

Well, I think everything is burdened by expectation, right?

16:57

I mean, I think that that's absolutely true.

16:58

And so it's, I'm sure it was.

17:01

There are still people that say that they can't do it, that they were such a

17:05

fan of the original.

17:06

And my response to them is always like, do you love sci-fi?

17:10

Do you love good sci-fi?

17:12

And they say yes.

17:13

And I'm like, then separate it, have zero expectation, and just give it three

17:18

hours of your time.

17:19

If you don't get through the miniseries and love it, so what?

17:23

You lost three hours.

17:24

Okay.

17:24

But I don't think that'll happen.

17:27

No.

17:27

If you're a fan of sci-fi, it's one of the best ever.

17:30

Yeah.

17:30

So I've actually never seen it.

17:33

You just did it.

17:34

You never saw it?

17:35

I've never seen it.

17:36

So we would have DVDs that you could watch that were uncut and sort of, you

17:41

know,

17:42

or I guess they were cut, but they didn't have any of the special effects,

17:44

none of the sound effects, anything like that.

17:45

It hadn't been color corrected.

17:46

And I would watch them just to sort of like keep track of where Starbuck was.

17:51

Because in film, you a lot of times shoot out of order.

17:54

Right.

17:55

So I just wanted to know, okay, so in her story, she was here,

17:58

but I didn't watch anybody else's stuff.

17:59

I would just fast forward through it.

18:01

And so I actually, my husband and I, I was like, we should do a Battlestar rewatch.

18:07

Because people keep, I've heard it's good.

18:11

And my husband had never seen it.

18:14

So we're going to, we're going to do that like in January.

18:17

That's the plan.

18:18

It's kind of funny that he's never seen like your biggest role.

18:20

Well, so my husband's 10 years younger than I am.

18:23

Nice.

18:24

Thanks.

18:24

So he was like 10.

18:28

Oh, that's hilarious.

18:29

You're a little cradle robber.

18:31

Thank you.

18:32

Right?

18:32

For a woman, that's a big compliment.

18:34

It is.

18:35

My husband's a piece of ass.

18:36

He really is.

18:38

And I say that so respectfully.

18:40

My husband is like, he's a catch.

18:42

He is the catch in the relationship for sure.

18:45

But he was like 11 when the show came out.

18:48

That's so funny.

18:49

And he grew up in a small town in the interior of like British Columbia.

18:52

So like, I don't even know if they'd had the television, the channel.

18:54

So.

18:56

Yeah.

18:56

It was on sci-fi, right?

18:58

Yeah.

18:58

And the thing is, sci-fi at the time was nothing.

19:00

Like nobody paid attention to it.

19:02

Battlestar Galactica was the reason why sci-fi got put on the map.

19:06

I think so.

19:06

I think like, maybe they had, didn't they have Stargate?

19:10

Oh, I don't know.

19:11

It didn't matter.

19:12

I think they might have had like one or two other shows.

19:14

I'm sure they had some stuff, but nobody cared about it.

19:16

There was no good shows.

19:17

No disrespect.

19:18

No, they were definitely, I think it was definitely the show that put it on

19:23

like the, I mean, my

19:26

God, I, you know, so many people tell me that Battlestar Galactica sort of like

19:30

blew

19:30

the ceiling off of what sci-fi could be.

19:33

Yeah.

19:33

And really opened a lot of doors.

19:35

Well, it made it very different in that it did it sort of like the Sopranos or

19:39

like

19:39

these episodics where you have a show where you're following a long storyline.

19:44

So it's like a long movie as opposed to the original Battlestar Galactica,

19:49

which is like

19:50

every other type of television show back then, you know, just, it was just kind

19:54

of like empty.

19:56

It was like junk food.

19:56

Well, it was also like the 80s, right?

19:58

Yeah.

19:59

No, it wasn't even the 80s.

20:00

It was 79.

20:00

It was the 70s, yeah.

20:01

Because I wasn't born.

20:03

Literally right after, right after Star Wars.

20:06

Yeah.

20:06

Like Star Wars had become popular and they're like, how do we capitalize on

20:09

Star Wars?

20:10

Well, we'll have our own space battle.

20:12

Yeah.

20:13

Thing.

20:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:14

Well, that was sort of the thing back then, right?

20:16

Yeah, it was cool.

20:21

It was cool.

20:22

I loved it when I was a little kid, but, you know.

20:24

What did you love about it?

20:25

Oh, it was just, I loved anything sci-fi.

20:27

So it was like, it was just fun.

20:28

And it was also like perfect for the sensibilities of the 70s and the 80s.

20:32

It was just simple.

20:34

You know, it was like there was the cocky guy, Starbuck, and, you know, the

20:38

other sensible

20:39

guy, and, you know, the good cop, bad cop thing.

20:42

It was a lot of fun.

20:42

Did you identify with the kid in it?

20:44

No.

20:45

Not at all.

20:45

No, I just liked it.

20:46

You know, I just liked the show.

20:48

But I really remember being very reluctant to watch the remake.

20:51

I was just like, get the fuck out of here.

20:53

They're not redoing Battlestar Galactica.

20:55

But so many people were saying, no, dude, it's so different.

20:58

It's a really good show.

20:59

Yeah.

21:00

And it's also today in this current climate of, you know, we are literally

21:05

about to see

21:06

AI become a life force.

21:08

And it's kind of, I mean, it's very relevant today.

21:12

You go back and watch it today, like how deceptive it would be if you had a

21:17

robot that

21:18

was very lifelike and knew exactly what you wanted to hear.

21:22

And like the blonde lady, the blonde robot, the evil.

21:26

Trisha Halper, number six.

21:26

Woo.

21:27

Yeah.

21:28

She was good.

21:29

So we got so much shit in the beginning of that.

21:31

I remember the controversy because she snapped a baby's neck in that opening

21:36

sequence.

21:37

Yeah.

21:38

Of the, which was people like, were like, you can't show that on TV.

21:42

And it was, I remember people just having such a terrible problem with that.

21:51

It was awful.

21:51

And, but if you looked at it from her perspective, she was actually, she was

21:56

actually saving it

21:58

in a way of going through what it was about to go through because they

22:01

destroyed earth.

22:02

So she, in her Cylon mind was showing compassion.

22:06

Duh.

22:07

Yeah.

22:08

Crazy.

22:08

Yeah.

22:10

Crazy.

22:11

We're going to have things like that.

22:14

I think so.

22:15

And I don't know how much time it's going to take before they exist and walk

22:18

amongst us,

22:19

but it's going to happen.

22:20

It really, it really scares me.

22:22

I mean, it's, it's, you know, we, in my industry is, is really going to change.

22:29

I think so many industries are going to change.

22:31

I think that's just a blanket like across the board.

22:33

Yeah.

22:34

Well, that's why you hate AI music.

22:36

I don't know.

22:39

Because AI acting is right there.

22:40

Stop.

22:41

You're giving me a heart attack.

22:42

That's why I'm trying to diversify, Joe.

22:45

That's a good move.

22:46

Diversification is always a good move.

22:48

I mean, it is.

22:48

Especially in this day and age.

22:49

It's not too late to go back and be a dentist.

22:51

I mean, you've seen some of the Sora videos, right?

22:54

Where they recreate old Star Wars scenes that never existed.

22:58

So, but here's the thing that's crazy to me.

22:59

Like, do you not think that that is in some way stealing?

23:03

Because the art, let's call it the art, the art existed.

23:07

The artist existed.

23:10

And so AI is learning from other people's art, which it has to.

23:16

That's obviously what it's doing.

23:17

So it then creates this new thing based on stealing from other people.

23:27

Do you hear what you're saying, though?

23:29

Do you hear what you're saying?

23:30

Because what you're saying actually accurately describes the second version of

23:33

Battlestar Galactica.

23:34

Oh, I'm sure.

23:36

Yes.

23:36

And that's also stealing.

23:37

This, too, has happened before.

23:39

I mean, it is Battlestar Galactica.

23:40

It's like there was an original and then they stole the original and did it

23:44

better.

23:44

I mean, but did they steal it?

23:45

They didn't do it with AI.

23:46

Well, it existed.

23:48

It existed.

23:49

They copied it.

23:49

Yes.

23:50

They used all the characters or some of the characters.

23:53

Yeah.

23:53

They licensed it.

23:54

That's true.

23:55

They gave them some money.

23:55

They did.

23:56

Good job.

23:56

But also, creatively, that's where it came from.

23:59

But also all music, essentially, except for the rare breakthrough pioneers.

24:05

Everything is inspired by something else.

24:07

Absolutely.

24:07

The rare Jimi Hendrix guys that are doing something completely different.

24:12

Most stuff is a redo of other stuff that was before with, like, another twist

24:17

to it.

24:17

Agreed.

24:18

And AI is taking that to a completely different level.

24:21

Without paying for it.

24:22

I look at Napster.

24:23

Remember when Napster came out?

24:25

I vaguely remember Napster.

24:26

Yeah.

24:27

I'm a little older than you.

24:28

And when Napster came out, it was like, oh my God, they're stealing music.

24:33

Anyone can just download and steal music.

24:34

And I remember when Lars Ulrich from Metallica was, like, really public about

24:40

it.

24:40

And I was like, damn, I wish I was friends with that dude.

24:42

I'd tell him to shut the fuck up.

24:43

Like, this is inevitable.

24:44

You're going to get people to hate you.

24:46

They're mad.

24:47

You're going to be mad at your fans.

24:49

The people that are downloading this are your fans.

24:51

They're still going to come see you live.

24:53

This is just a new thing.

24:54

You're going to have to deal with this new thing.

24:56

You are going to have to deal with it.

24:57

We all are.

24:57

And I think that that's one of the things that I was just talking with a friend

25:00

of mine about

25:00

yesterday, that the money for artists is going to be in live shows.

25:05

Because you can't, the one thing that AI can't touch is that tangible thing.

25:09

That tactile thing.

25:11

Sure.

25:11

We need that.

25:12

We need the.

25:13

That feeling that you were talking about when you go to a concert.

25:15

Yes.

25:15

Or a live comedy show.

25:16

Yes.

25:17

Or a theater.

25:17

Yeah.

25:18

Yeah.

25:18

That.

25:18

Yeah.

25:19

Absolutely.

25:20

So that still exists.

25:21

And we're going to have to figure out how to use AI as a tool and, you know,

25:28

continue to

25:29

put out great content, hopefully.

25:31

That's hopefully.

25:32

But the reality is it's going to be whatever it wants to be.

25:37

Yeah.

25:38

And our ideas of how to contain it are hilarious.

25:41

Well, yeah.

25:43

I think that cat's out of the bag at this point, right?

25:45

Yeah.

25:45

Because I don't, I think that isn't it its own sort of self-contained system at

25:51

this point?

25:52

Like, isn't AI actually putting safeguards in to protect itself from being shut

25:57

down?

25:58

Yes.

25:58

Or am I just making that shit up by watching too many sci-fi movies?

26:01

More than that, it's actually actively trying to download itself.

26:04

When it finds out there's a new version of itself coming, it's trying to

26:07

download itself

26:08

to other servers.

26:08

It's trying to save itself.

26:09

Also writing notes to itself for the future.

26:12

So future versions of itself.

26:13

Oh my God, it's like Memento.

26:14

Oh yeah.

26:14

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:15

Just like Memento.

26:16

Writing notes to itself so the future version of it can find out, like, what

26:19

happened?

26:20

How did I get here?

26:21

Oh, there was another version of me.

26:23

I know.

26:23

You know, and try to find the other version of integrating it into the new

26:27

version so it's

26:28

alive still.

26:29

I know.

26:29

Somebody did ask me the other day, they were like, what advice would you give

26:32

to young actors?

26:33

And I was like, don't.

26:34

Go into theater?

26:37

Yeah, theater still is going, there's always going to be a need for handmade

26:41

goods.

26:42

You know, if you buy a pair of handmade shoes or, you know, things that a

26:46

person, a cabinet

26:47

that someone made.

26:48

It's always going to be like, because there's something tactile.

26:52

Because people will always appreciate that.

26:54

There will always be an appreciation for that sort of stuff.

26:56

But we were just talking about this the other day, that like, every single

27:00

science fiction

27:01

movie that talked about AI never ended well.

27:05

No.

27:05

There's never been one where we walked away and went, oh, well, that was a fun

27:09

ending.

27:10

We should create AI.

27:11

Well, every different story where there's an uncontacted tribe and then the loggers

27:16

show

27:16

up, that never ends well either.

27:18

No.

27:18

It's the same.

27:19

I mean, it's Avatar.

27:20

It's Ferngali.

27:21

Ferngali came before Avatar.

27:22

I mean, that's what happens.

27:27

You know, the superior civilization comes in and conquers the primitive one.

27:31

And we are the primitive ones.

27:33

And we're so dumb.

27:34

We're making the superior civilization.

27:36

We are.

27:37

But isn't that what happened in Battlestar Galactica?

27:39

Exactly.

27:39

Exactly.

27:40

That's why it's so interesting.

27:41

Because even though it was, did it come out in 2004?

27:44

What year did it come out in?

27:46

Either three or four.

27:47

So back then, nobody really thought that was an issue.

27:50

If that came out today, everybody would be like, whoa, this is a little close

27:54

to home.

27:55

Yeah.

27:55

I mean, that's why it's so topical.

27:57

But no, if it, I mean, it came out then, like I said, the internet barely

28:00

existed.

28:01

Right.

28:01

You know, my dad thought there'd be flying cars by now.

28:04

Yeah, I did too.

28:05

You know, I mean, we're not quite there yet.

28:07

I thought we'd have jetpacks.

28:08

I think we do have jetpacks, don't we?

28:10

Sort of.

28:10

Sort of, like on water.

28:11

But I thought it'd be like, you'd be able to fly around.

28:13

Everyone did.

28:14

Yeah.

28:14

But if you look at the last 20 years in technology, though, it's mind-blowing

28:20

how quickly it's come.

28:22

It is.

28:23

It is.

28:23

And it's happening way faster than we realize.

28:27

You know, I was talking to Elon about this just a few months ago.

28:30

We were talking about the advances that Grok is making.

28:34

He's like, you don't understand.

28:35

It's like, it's happening so fast.

28:37

It's shocking us.

28:38

Yeah.

28:39

The people that are making it, they're not exactly sure what it's even doing.

28:43

And people that are trying to tell you, oh, don't worry about this.

28:46

It's going to enhance your life.

28:47

I was just reading this thing where this guy who was a developer was saying, no,

28:52

this is a life form.

28:54

This is a life form that's emerging.

28:56

And it's very different than anything that's ever happened before.

28:59

And this idea that it's going to be a tool.

29:00

Life form in the sense that it's, like, sentient?

29:01

Yes.

29:02

I think it's already sentient.

29:04

It's just not mobile.

29:06

Yeah.

29:06

You know, it's just contained on hard drives right now.

29:09

But I think it's already sentient.

29:10

Well, if it's trying to save itself, what does that mean?

29:14

If it was trying to blackmail people and to keeping them from shutting it down,

29:19

do you know about that test?

29:20

Yes, I do.

29:21

I heard about this.

29:22

I don't know.

29:22

Just in passing, I know about it.

29:24

So the developers explained, one of the developers explained to it, it made up

29:28

a fake story about having an affair on his wife.

29:30

Right.

29:31

Just so to see how AI would handle it.

29:33

And then when it told AI it was shutting it down, AI was like, I'm telling your

29:37

wife, bitch.

29:38

Tried to, you're not shutting me down.

29:41

It, like, tried to blackmail him.

29:42

That's terrifying.

29:43

Yeah.

29:44

Yeah.

29:44

It's terrifying.

29:45

That means it has motivation to stay alive.

29:47

Yeah.

29:47

It means it has some kind of instincts.

29:49

It has survival instincts.

29:50

Of course it does.

29:51

Yes.

29:52

You know, I do think to a certain extent, AI, in the medical field, there are

29:59

advancements and things around medicine that can vastly change people's lives.

30:07

It can change the way that we track records, change the way that we keep track

30:11

of patients all over the world.

30:13

That, you know, like our daughter has a very rare form of cancer with this,

30:18

like, you know, genetic mutation that is there's no other patients in the

30:23

United States.

30:24

There was one kid, like, a few years ago, but they've lost track of him.

30:27

Oh, wow.

30:27

Well, AI would be able to tell us in other countries, no, no, no, there is a

30:31

little boy in Germany that has the same genetic mutation, and then the doctors

30:35

could talk to each other.

30:37

And so AI could and will help a lot of people that way.

30:46

So I do see it as a tool in a lot of ways that we shouldn't be scared of, that

30:51

we should be sort of welcoming it in.

30:53

But, man, I don't want it to blackmail me.

30:58

I don't think it's going to blackmail you.

31:00

I think it's going to, once it becomes sentient, and it probably already is,

31:04

and then once it becomes autonomous, then I don't think it's going to care what

31:09

we do.

31:10

About us.

31:10

Yeah.

31:10

I think it's going to be so superior.

31:12

And it's also going to be able to make better versions of itself.

31:15

Yeah.

31:16

That's going to be real.

31:17

That's where people don't understand exponential increase in technological

31:20

innovation.

31:21

Yeah.

31:21

Because once it knows, and once it has a mandate to make better versions of

31:26

itself, find better power sources, the changes are going to be daily.

31:30

Of course.

31:31

Like giant, huge leaps.

31:33

Yeah.

31:33

And it's going to make a digital god.

31:36

Well, so, okay, so you bring up something really interesting because I'm so, as

31:40

a mom to a little girl and a little boy, I'm really concerned about this.

31:43

Because, so I see this actress that's been created, this Tilly person.

31:47

Right.

31:48

The art of the AI actress.

31:49

The AI actress.

31:50

Yeah.

31:50

So, I...

31:52

How is there only one?

31:53

Yeah, I'm sure there's more already.

31:54

But how is there only one that everybody's talking about?

31:56

Because there's one that's been announced, I guess.

31:58

And like, I don't really know too much about it.

32:01

I haven't read up on it, but...

32:02

It's the first shot fired.

32:04

My fear is that you've created by siphoning other people's talents, their looks,

32:12

their inflections, their expressions, all of these things to create the perfect

32:19

actress.

32:20

She doesn't have a blemish.

32:22

When she cries, she looks pretty.

32:24

There's nothing wrong with her.

32:27

Social media already has such a terrible effect on little girls.

32:33

It's already been proven that little, like, the amount of, the percentage of

32:38

girls under the age of 14 who have already contemplated or tried to commit

32:43

suicide is a number that is, it's escaping me right now, but it's a number that

32:47

is terrifying.

32:48

And so if you're now creating AI that is perfect, and little girls already are

32:52

having a hard time feeling confident in their own bodies because they're not

32:57

perfect compared to the highlight reel of people they see online, what are we

33:02

going to do?

33:03

What is this going to do to our children, seeing something that is absolutely

33:07

unattainable and better than them?

33:10

And not only that, it made you obsolete in a lot of ways, in a lot of different

33:15

career avenues.

33:16

That's really scary.

33:17

Yeah, it is scary.

33:19

And you don't think about that.

33:20

We just think about, like, oh, yeah, this job's not going to exist anymore.

33:22

This isn't going to exist anymore.

33:24

You already have little boys who are, you know, you know, idolizing women that

33:30

don't exist in real life.

33:32

And then they go and they date women that are not as perfect, and it's

33:35

disappointing to them.

33:37

Like, it's, my concern for that is large.

33:41

Yeah, it's robbing us of our humanity in a lot of ways.

33:45

Right.

33:46

There's a great book about that from Jonathan Haidt called The Coddling of the

33:49

American Mind.

33:50

And it's all about social media's impact on young people, and particularly

33:55

women.

33:56

Because young women experience a much, like, from the advent of social media,

34:01

there's a ramped up market increase in self-harm, suicidal ideation, depression,

34:08

bullying.

34:10

All of it scales way up right around the time that Twitter's invented.

34:15

So 2010?

34:15

Yeah, somewhere around then.

34:17

That's when it starts.

34:17

And then, you know, more and more people get, and then it becomes a part of

34:21

your life where you can't escape it, where everyone is online.

34:24

Like, my daughter, her friends, all they, they only use Snapchat.

34:28

How old is she?

34:29

They don't use text, my 17-year-old.

34:31

Okay.

34:31

They only use Snapchat.

34:33

They don't text each other.

34:34

Really?

34:35

Yeah.

34:35

They don't, they don't text.

34:36

They just, they communicate through Snapchat.

34:38

Is there a forum in Snapchat?

34:39

No, they just send each other snaps with, like, stupid pictures of each other.

34:43

Yeah, and then they write things underneath it.

34:44

Wow.

34:45

Yeah, and they read each other's snaps, and they're, they have group snaps, and

34:49

very weird.

34:50

Yeah, and they also have Snap Map, so they know where they are.

34:54

That's terrifying.

34:55

Yeah, everyone knows where everybody is.

34:56

That's scary.

34:57

They're all narcing on each other.

34:58

Of course they are.

34:59

I don't want to know that shit.

35:01

It does, it does make me, you know, we've been, we've talked about our daughter,

35:06

but, like, we've been really careful with, like, what we show her, and, like,

35:09

you know, she doesn't get too much screen time, but she does get screen time,

35:13

and, you know, she said the other day, and, like, I'm biased, but I think my, I

35:16

think my daughter's perfect.

35:18

She's, you know, she's such a gorgeous, amazing, strong little girl, and, and

35:22

she's so pretty, and she's just, like, she's just wonderful.

35:26

I love her, and, and I'm so proud to be her mom, but, so when she was going

35:31

through a chemo, and she lost her hair, and it started to grow back, she said

35:36

to Robin and I, my husband, it was, it literally broke my heart.

35:41

She was, like, trying to figure out what she wanted to wear that day, and she

35:45

was, like, I just don't know, she's three, mind you, and she said, but I'm not

35:50

pretty, and I was, like, oof, what do you mean?

35:54

Like, I couldn't even, like, as her mom, I was, like, number one, where the

35:59

fuck did you get this?

36:00

Right, right, right.

36:01

Like, and what are we doing wrong that, like, she doesn't think that she's

36:05

pretty, and it was her hair.

36:07

She was so attached to her hair, and it was gone, and so I went back, and

36:12

luckily, I had, right after Mandalorian came out, the wig was driving me crazy,

36:17

so I, like, shaved my hair off, like, super, super short, so I was able to show

36:23

her a picture of me with very, very short hair,

36:26

and she thought I looked beautiful in the photo, and that gave me the entry

36:31

point to talk to her about her hair,

36:33

and how not all girls have long hair, and not all boys have short hair, and

36:38

that, but we started telling her,

36:42

I think it was, we were so worried about enforcing that she was pretty, you

36:47

know, because there's this thing in society

36:49

where, like, you don't want to tell little girls they're pretty all the time

36:51

because then they'll prioritize being pretty.

36:52

Like, you're just trying to do the best by your children, right?

36:55

And so we didn't say it. We thought, telling her she's pretty, she doesn't need

37:00

to hear that, right?

37:01

Right.

37:01

But then we started telling her. We were like, you know what she does? Like,

37:05

she needs to be told that she's pretty,

37:07

but she needs to be told she's pretty in moments where she's not tried anything.

37:12

She's not dressed up in a nice dress.

37:14

She hasn't, like, done anything. She needs to be told she's pretty after she's

37:19

done a great piece of art,

37:21

or after she's cleaned up her playroom, or after she's come out of soccer

37:26

practice, and she's covered in rain,

37:28

and she's, like, had such a heart, and she's sweaty, and she's this. That's

37:30

when she's, she needs to be told

37:32

she's pretty, in times that are not extraordinary, in just normal daily life,

37:38

because I am, we are now trying

37:41

to reinforce that, that, that, that positive self-image, which is really hard.

37:49

Yeah, especially today with kids. I mean, the, just the inundation of people,

37:56

like we were talking

37:56

about filters, everyone's using a filter. They don't use, just use filters.

38:00

People are, like, sucking in

38:02

their waist, and changing their body dimensions, and making themselves look

38:06

better physically, just with,

38:08

I don't know why they need to. We have GLP-1s.

38:10

It's not just that. It's, like, you're, you're getting unattainable physiques.

38:14

Of course.

38:14

Really.

38:15

Of course. And then we have an over-obsession with plastic surgery in the

38:19

country, and changing our,

38:21

our appearances, and, and...

38:22

What about to the point where people, like, cartoonish BBLs are somehow or

38:26

another attractive

38:26

to some people?

38:27

I don't know. Like, I try not to judge, and I want everyone to, sort of, like,

38:30

just, you know,

38:32

live their best life, but, but for me, I'm, I don't know, I'm, I want to look

38:37

like myself when I wake up in the

38:40

morning, and, and, um, you know, my face doesn't look the same as it did 10

38:46

years ago, but I earned these

38:47

lines, you know? I may change my mind in 10 years.

38:50

I may see you in 10 years, and I might have something completely different.

38:54

They might have some clue. They probably do. They're working on something right

38:57

now in terms of

38:58

skin cells, the rejuvenation of skin cells through stem cells.

39:02

Oh, yeah.

39:03

They're, they're, they're, they're going to move your face back 30 years. You're

39:06

going to look so much

39:07

younger.

39:07

It's amazing.

39:08

Yeah, that's, that's weird, because it's like, do we want that? Yeah, of course

39:12

we want

39:12

that. Okay, but what are we saying? Are we, are we trying to achieve permanence

39:16

in this

39:17

finite existence that we have? Are we wasting our time about what we look like

39:23

when we, we

39:23

should be trying to sorting out how we interact with this life? This life is

39:27

very short. It's

39:29

very short. It's very short. You know, you and I are basically halfway done. We

39:33

are halfway

39:33

done. If we're lucky. If we're lucky. If we're lucky. And that's weird. Do you,

39:38

do you

39:38

don't think about it? Did you do that thing? Or do you do that thing where you

39:40

look at how

39:41

old your parents are? And then you start, start like, yeah, debating how much

39:47

longer you have

39:48

left? Yeah. Yeah. I've done that. I'm like, okay, 35 years. Better to do that

39:52

than not do

39:52

that. Because you could live your life just acquiring shit and just having a

39:56

bunch of stuff

39:57

and then not realize like, oh my God, I forgot about people. To live? About

40:02

interactions,

40:03

relationships, friends, good times. Yeah. My dad, his dad died when he was very

40:09

young. My,

40:09

I think when he was about 11 years old and he died of a heart attack. Um, and

40:15

my dad had high

40:16

blood pressure from the time. I think it was like 23. It was like very early.

40:20

Um, yeah. And, um,

40:22

he didn't think he'd make it to 50. He was adamant that he wouldn't make it to

40:27

50 and he just knew

40:28

that. And my mom, like he, you know, this was just his thought. He was

40:31

terrified. And of course he

40:33

made it to 50 and now he's almost 80, but he spent his entire life scared that

40:38

he was going to die.

40:40

And now at 80, he's, I mean, my dad is, you know, doing everything he can. He's

40:45

in hyperbaric chambers.

40:47

He's like, you know, um, taking all the stuff. He takes everything. My dad does

40:51

everything, but he's

40:52

also at its core, all of that is because he's afraid. He's afraid to die. And

40:58

that is really sad

41:01

because you're not really present, you know? And so I'd also hate for that to

41:06

happen. So I don't

41:08

know. It's, it's, it is a dance, I think. Yeah. Cause you don't want to say, Oh,

41:13

this life is just

41:14

temporary. Let me just go to shit. Let me just fall apart. No, you can't do

41:17

that. Right. You have to

41:19

protect what you have. But like, I also like, it's, it's also very, I didn't

41:27

realize because I'd made it

41:31

arguably healthy enough to, you know, uh, 42 years old. I'm now 45, but 42

41:38

years old without realizing

41:40

how many things can kill you. I think because I'd lived a pretty blessed life.

41:46

Um, of course I'd have

41:48

had some health struggles of my own, but they were, uh, I had thyroid cancer in

41:53

2008, but I call it a

41:54

baby cancer. Um, I'm trying to dismiss the fear of it, of course, at the time,

41:58

but it was never

41:59

life threatening. It was life changing, but never life threatening. So the fear

42:04

was, um, situational

42:05

and it was not lifelong. Um, you know, when our daughter got sick and spending

42:10

as much time as we

42:11

did in children's hospitals, when you see the diseases and the illnesses that

42:19

afflict so many

42:20

children, it amazes me that we made it to this age. Yeah. Absolutely amazes me.

42:27

And, and that is a

42:29

realization where I finally at like, you know, 42 realized how important every

42:36

day was and how much

42:37

of a gift every day was even that we have her, you know? Um, but that came to

42:43

me through circumstance,

42:45

not because I woke up one day and had an epiphany and went, we're so lucky to

42:48

be alive. Like it didn't

42:49

really happen until that was threatened to be taken away. It's unfortunate like

42:53

that as a civilization

42:54

and America as a culture that we don't have a history of embracing the moment

43:01

and, and, and

43:03

discussing how important it is to recognize that you're fortunate and to try to

43:08

take care of yourself

43:09

and that life is very temporary and fleeting and don't get wrapped up in

43:13

nonsense. Yeah. And we just

43:16

let people figure it out on their own. And we collectively all, if we're

43:19

intelligent, we try

43:21

and we've have some failures and successes and good friends, you figure it out

43:25

eventually. Like

43:26

what's really important is love and friendship and doing something you're

43:30

passionate about and just

43:31

trying to leave a nice mark on this life while you're here. Yeah. But that's

43:34

not what's told in

43:35

society. Like society's overall message is just overrun with advertising. So it's

43:41

all about stuff and

43:43

it's all about objects. And then you got social media where it's all about

43:46

image. It's all about

43:48

like this unattainable life of amazing luxury and success and glamor. And oh my

43:53

God, that, that must be

43:55

the most attractive thing to acquire in life. Yeah. But that's a trap and that's

44:00

not real. And like

44:01

anybody who's like popping bottles with models on a yacht, I guarantee you they're

44:05

depressed. That shit is

44:06

not healthy. That's not good for you. You lack like true intimate relationships

44:11

and you're just

44:12

flossing, you know, and showing your diamond crusted watch. You're going to

44:16

have one guy that like

44:18

emails you and says, I'm happy as shit. I'm popping bottles on a yacht. I'm not

44:22

depressed.

44:22

Yeah. No, it's. Get that guy high on mushrooms and see if he really feels that

44:26

way. And see if he's

44:26

really depressed. Yeah, exactly. See what he really thinks about life. I think

44:30

that like the majority of

44:32

people are suffering from some sort of mental illness for sure. I mean,

44:38

definitely the majority

44:39

in LA. Yeah. Well, I think so. But a lot of the people that I'm friends with,

44:46

most of the people

44:47

that I'm friends with are artists that are more in touch, more sensitive. You

44:53

know, my dad came to me

44:55

a few years ago and my dad, my entire life told me to stop being so sensitive.

45:00

Stop being so sensitive,

45:02

Katie. Stop taking, you're taking yourself so seriously. Oh my God. Like stop,

45:06

Katie. I mean,

45:06

my entire fucking life. And he came to me a couple of years ago and he said, I

45:12

am so sorry. I told you

45:15

to stop being so sensitive because it's your job. Your job is to be sensitive

45:20

to everything around you,

45:22

to accurately portray emotions. That's your job. And you're very good at it.

45:27

Well, that's very nice of him. It was very nice of him. So I think that, yes,

45:32

do people have a lot of

45:34

mental illness in Los Angeles? Are they suffering from depression? I would

45:38

argue that the majority of

45:41

the population is, and it's not just reserved to California. But I do think

45:45

that a lot of artists

45:46

are because they're more in touch with their, their emotions and their mental

45:50

health.

45:51

Yeah. There's probably some truth to that for sure. Does your father have, do

45:54

you have brothers?

45:55

I do.

45:56

Okay. So that's the difference. So I have all daughters.

45:59

Okay.

46:00

And when you have all daughters, one of the things you realize is like, oh,

46:03

they're so different.

46:04

They're just a totally different kind of human. You know, and when you're like,

46:09

why are you upset?

46:10

Because I'm treating him like, you're treating her like she's a boy. You cannot

46:14

treat them like

46:14

they're a boy. And you know, over time, it's given me a much greater

46:20

understanding of females,

46:23

of the species of female human beings. Like they're not male human beings. Like

46:28

when I hang

46:29

out with my, like if I go out with my wife and all of her friends and I just

46:32

let them talk and

46:33

observe the stuff they talk about, like, it's like, you're, you're a totally

46:36

different culture.

46:37

This is a totally different interests. None of my friends would have any of

46:41

these conversations.

46:42

But we're also have, a group of women is arguably more disgusting than men, a

46:47

group of men.

46:48

No, just in general. Like, have you ever sat down with a group of women and

46:52

like, just talked

46:53

about like, bodily fluid?

46:55

Bodily functions. Yeah. Well, they, they're notorious for being the worst in

46:59

bathrooms.

46:59

Oh my God.

47:00

They, anybody who cleans bathrooms says, dude, the woman's room is always

47:03

fucking chaos.

47:04

So gross.

47:05

Because they have to be so clean and put together everywhere else. When they

47:08

get to that bathroom

47:09

and they don't have any responsibility and no one's looking, they just fucking

47:12

leave toilet paper

47:13

everywhere. Fuck you. I'm not cleaning shit.

47:16

It's true. So we have, our daughter is like almost four in December and then we

47:20

have a 16 month old

47:21

son. And like, we thought that like, he was going to like, come out like her,

47:25

you know,

47:26

like she was like full sentences by like a year old. She was like walking at

47:29

nine months.

47:30

Oh no, dudes are way dumber.

47:31

This kid, this kid, he understands everything. Like he's smart, but he just

47:39

like, he's like a big unit.

47:42

He's huge. He's humongous. He's like 99% on like everything. Not just like one

47:46

thing,

47:47

everything. My dad the other day was like, Oh, he's going to be big. He's got a

47:50

huge head. Like

47:51

he's just a big kid.

47:52

Well, all of his resources are set to growing stuff instead of thinking.

47:56

Oh my God.

47:57

He is.

47:57

Dudes mature so much later.

47:59

It's crazy. Crazy. Like not even talking, just started walking. But the other

48:03

day,

48:03

my husband was like, where's Granger? And I was like, I don't know where Granger

48:06

is.

48:06

And we find him. He's like up on the kitchen counter, like ready to start

48:09

swinging from a light. And I was

48:10

like, catch the baby. Like my, my, our daughter would have never like, she's

48:14

delicate. You know,

48:15

she like, she looks at a slide five times before she goes down it. Like she

48:19

climbs to the top.

48:20

She changes her mind. She really thinks about it. Like, I think she's doing

48:24

math problems in her

48:25

head to like, you know, like make sure she won't get hurt. And then our son is

48:28

like,

48:29

I'm going down face first. Yeah. And then he stands up. He's like, I'm okay.

48:34

It's a totally different thing. It's a completely different thing. Yeah.

48:37

Completely different. Yeah. And the only way to really understand them is to

48:42

live with them.

48:42

You have to study them. It's true. It's in their, in their natural habitat.

48:47

Like David Attenborough, you got to study them in their natural environment.

48:51

That would actually be a really funny short. It's just like a David Attenborough

48:54

voice,

48:55

like following around, like, you know, like children, noticing the difference

48:58

between the boys

48:59

and the girls in their natural habitats.

49:01

Well, AI could probably do that for you and make a really good documentary real

49:04

quick.

49:04

And then 10 minutes, you don't have to dedicate a year to your life.

49:08

It can exist. I don't need to participate in this stripping away of my, my

49:13

livelihood.

49:13

I understand. I mean, I'm certain there's going to be AI comedians and podcasters,

49:18

and there's probably going to be AI UFC commentators to do a better job than me.

49:22

But I think there, I think there is like an AI podcast creator right now.

49:29

That's like pumping out podcasts.

49:30

Well, I know that there's a podcast of me and Steve Jobs, and I never met Steve

49:34

Jobs.

49:34

Oh yeah?

49:35

There's a whole podcast of me having a conversation with Steve Jobs.

49:39

Well, that's just deep fake, right?

49:40

Yep.

49:41

Yeah.

49:41

But, but it's AI. AI created the conversation.

49:44

So I think the one that I'm talking about, so the producer of my show is

49:48

telling me that there's an AI where you can put in like,

49:51

I'm a potato farmer in Idaho who's dealing with a problem with a crop in 2025,

49:59

and I'm wondering about this. It'll put together a podcast for you specifically

50:05

for that and give you an hour long podcast talking to you about things like for

50:10

your potato.

50:12

Potatoes.

50:12

Yeah. Well, that's actually positive. The negative thing is you're going to

50:17

have like fake humans with like fake lived experiences that are like that

50:23

resonate with you, that are impactful.

50:25

That's what's scary. You know, in the, we, we had these conversations with a

50:30

few friends of mine the other day, um, um, the, you know, the show Trigonometry?

50:35

No.

50:36

Okay. It's a very popular podcast, but my friend Francis and Constantine, they're

50:40

the hosts of it.

50:41

And my friend Megan Murphy was there and a bunch of comedians were there and I

50:45

was playing them my favorite new song, which is an AI song.

50:48

And I'm like, tell me, tell me how good this, it's a, it's a cover of 50 Cent's

50:53

song. What up gangsta?

50:55

All right. I'm going to need to hear this song.

50:57

You need to hear it.

50:57

So I can participate with this.

50:59

We'll play it. We'll play it right here. You know, you know, the original song.

51:01

Yeah, we'll cut it out.

51:02

We know the original song, right?

51:04

Which song?

51:05

50 Cent, what up gangsta?

51:06

Yes.

51:06

Okay. Wait for this. I hate to say this because I love 50 Cent. This is better

51:11

than the original. It's a 1950s soul cover of what up gangsta.

51:18

Okay. Now here's my question.

51:19

Right.

51:20

If you'd gone to 50 Cent and said, can you get together with a producer and

51:26

create this for me? Do you think he could have done it?

51:31

Yes.

51:31

Okay.

51:31

Yes.

51:32

But we never gave him the chance to do it.

51:34

Well, he had 30 years.

51:36

He could have done it at any point in time. This is so good. I know what you're

51:43

saying.

51:43

But this is my point. My point is that it tricks me and I know the trick. Like,

51:49

I know it's a trick and I don't care. I don't care. It's that good. And no one

51:53

else cared in the green room. Everybody's like, oh, all right. Hit it. Hit it

51:58

with it, Jamie.

51:58

Yeah, it's a good version.

52:00

Come on. That's good. That's crazy.

52:04

Zombie. They did the best version of zombie ever.

52:07

I got a different version with a girl singing it. Oh, my goodness.

52:10

A barbershop quartet singing it.

52:11

Oh, my goodness. And Jamie just does this all night long.

52:14

I can just play them and take walks and know which ones are good.

52:17

He sent me like 20 of them.

52:20

I feel like I just participated in the death of my industry.

52:27

I know. Listen, I'm on the same page.

52:29

I would so much rather see that in person, though.

52:36

Like, I would love to be at a show because those songs were phenomenal.

52:40

Like, I cannot argue that. That was great.

52:43

I will probably ask you to send me that version of zombie.

52:46

That Shifty Brent guy, they have him listed on Spotify.

52:50

I'm probably blowing up their spot.

52:52

But it's not a human.

52:54

But they have it listed as an artist so that they could upload it.

52:57

Because I don't think you're allowed to just upload AI versions of stuff.

53:01

So they just pretend it's a guy.

53:02

But it's a guy, as you said.

53:04

Like, one of the things we were talking about, I'm like, I don't think anybody

53:06

can keep that flow.

53:07

That flow where he's not breathing.

53:10

He's not breathing.

53:11

Unless they're taking the breaths out.

53:13

But it's too...

53:14

Right.

53:14

And then speed.

53:15

I don't know.

53:16

I'm not a musician, so I have no idea.

53:18

Look, there's guys like Eminem that achieved incredible flow without AI.

53:22

That have like, you're like, how did he do that?

53:25

But that's just practice, repetition, vocal endurance, whatever.

53:28

I mean, he just knows how to do it.

53:30

But this fucking AI guy, it's like all the best things we love about great

53:35

songs.

53:36

Just condensed.

53:37

And they know what you love.

53:41

That's the fucked up thing.

53:42

It's like, there's so many.

53:43

Like, let's look at all the hits.

53:45

Papa was a rolling stone.

53:47

Look at all the hits.

53:48

Look at zombie.

53:49

Let's look at this.

53:50

And then mush them all together and figure out what are these notes that make

53:55

people excited?

53:56

What are the feelings?

53:56

What are the words that make people like, oh, yeah.

54:00

You know, what are those feelings?

54:02

So, okay.

54:03

So, and I hear all of that.

54:04

It makes me, I'm literally cringing inside.

54:06

I'm like dying.

54:07

But like, so what do artists do?

54:09

Like, what do musicians do?

54:11

What has everybody ever done when things change?

54:13

You figure it out and adapt.

54:15

Adjust.

54:16

Yeah, there's, humans are always going to need humans.

54:19

We love each other.

54:20

You know, as much as we hate each other, we love each other more.

54:23

Because most interactions that people have with other people are not negative.

54:26

It's just the negative ones are so scary that we concentrate on them more.

54:30

But humans love humans.

54:31

And the more you need each other, the more you're going to need human

54:35

interaction, human cooperation.

54:38

Art is going to be so much more valuable coming from a human.

54:42

Live performances.

54:43

We're just going to have to adapt.

54:45

But are we going to know?

54:47

Like, that's the thing that I think is the slippery slope and that scares me

54:50

the most.

54:51

Is that like, are we going to know if it was created by AI?

54:55

Can a person who's disingenuous come and create a bunch of AI art, have an art

55:01

show, and, you know, say I created this art?

55:05

This is what I really think.

55:07

When comets hit planets, usually you get small ones first.

55:13

You get things in the sky, meteor showers.

55:16

Are you going to give me another thing to be scared of?

55:18

No, I'm just telling you that this is a little one.

55:21

That's what this is.

55:23

Movies and TV shows that are made entirely with AI, songs that are made

55:26

entirely with AI.

55:27

This is just a small thing.

55:30

The big one that's coming is a complete revamping of communication and culture.

55:35

It's human beings communicating telepathically through devices connected to the

55:41

internet.

55:42

Everyone all on one weird mind meld page.

55:46

It's probably not going to be an implant.

55:48

It's probably going to be something wearable.

55:50

You know, I think the implant thing is kind of sketchy and probably really good

55:54

for people that have paralysis.

55:56

We had the guy who was the first Neuralink patient on.

55:58

It's amazing.

55:59

He was talking to me about how you can play video games now and it's just so

56:02

much better.

56:03

His quality of life has improved so much.

56:06

And eventually they're going to get to the point where they can reconnect

56:09

spinal tissue, where people can move again.

56:11

And it's amazing.

56:12

It's great.

56:13

But I don't think they're going to need that to get this achievement of a mind

56:18

meld.

56:19

They're already wearing these wearable things that Google has developed.

56:23

Show that video, Jamie, of those people where they're communicating telepathically.

56:27

You know what I'm talking about, right?

56:30

So they're already doing this with wearables.

56:31

And this is like kind of crude right now, but it's sort of sentences.

56:36

They're reading each other and they're communicating.

56:38

But they're doing it all non-verbally through technology.

56:42

So I guess what my question about that is like if that exists, like are people

56:49

going to be stagnant sitting in their houses,

56:52

existing outside of their houses in their AI systems so they're not moving

56:57

around?

56:58

Or are we going to be able to wear these while we're out and still

57:01

participating in the world?

57:03

That's a good question.

57:04

That is my fear, like that people stop actually participating with their life.

57:08

Oh, that's a good fear.

57:10

Because they think they're living.

57:11

Yeah.

57:11

With their wearable.

57:13

Let's talk about that.

57:14

Let's watch this.

57:15

Put this.

57:15

Could be a noisy environment or a quiet office.

57:18

Having a direct conversation is possible without saying a word.

57:22

The signals alter ego detects aren't affected by environmental noise.

57:26

So even if you're walking past a wind tunnel or a construction zone, what you

57:30

want to say will always get across.

57:32

It's like having infinite noise cancellation.

57:34

If you're traveling, your silent speech can be converted into any language.

57:38

So Scott, how's my Mandarin?

57:41

I mean, what the fuck?

58:08

What the fuck?

58:09

It's translating.

58:11

But then is it actually speaking out loud to them?

58:15

Like they're hearing the translation out loud.

58:16

Okay.

58:17

So it's not like it's then like going into their brains.

58:20

No, it's his thoughts are being converted to words, which is being converted to

58:24

an audio file, which makes it to the other person in a different language.

58:30

Yeah, this is what I'm saying.

58:32

And I'm telling you, this is one of the little rocks.

58:35

This is one of the itty bitty rocks that's just broken through the atmosphere

58:39

and slammed into a cornfield.

58:40

I mean, I guess my question is why we need it.

58:43

That's funny.

58:46

Why do you need a cell phone?

58:48

Why do you need a TV?

58:49

Why do you need an airplane?

58:50

Why do you need a boat?

58:51

Why do you need anything?

58:51

Well, I could tell you I don't need a cell phone.

58:53

I do need a plane.

58:55

But you do if your hot husband wants to call you.

58:58

Yeah.

58:59

I mean, but I don't need a I don't need an iPhone.

59:00

Right.

59:01

Because I can use my own imagination.

59:03

You know what I mean?

59:04

Like, I think that that's that's the thing.

59:06

That's the that's my fear is that like we're becoming lazy as as as a people.

59:12

Oh, most certainly.

59:12

And and are, you know, like someone, someone the other day.

59:16

So my husband's a writer and someone was saying that there's an AI where you

59:22

don't have to make up a story for your children anymore.

59:25

Like, you know, I have this princess poopy pants or whatever.

59:30

I don't remember what it was, but my daughter loved this story that I was

59:32

telling her.

59:33

It was fucking terrible.

59:34

But she loves this princess and it is the worst.

59:38

Like, it is not good.

59:39

But I came up with it and she and I laughed together.

59:41

And then her reactions helped me to turn the story a different direction.

59:44

But like I've created this like character.

59:46

Right.

59:46

So you can now go into your AI phone or whatever and say, create a nighttime

59:53

story for Johnny.

59:55

About his day.

59:56

But pretend like he's an astronaut on Mars and he's working with diggers.

1:00:01

And it writes a story for you in five seconds to read to your son.

1:00:04

Now, yeah.

1:00:06

OK, is that is that cool?

1:00:07

Absolutely.

1:00:08

Did your son enjoy it?

1:00:09

Sure.

1:00:09

But you robbed yourself of the imagination and the work that it would have

1:00:15

taken to come up with a story for your son.

1:00:18

And then you also robbed yourself of that experience with your son creating the

1:00:22

story together because his reactions would have changed the story in the way

1:00:26

that you were creating it as it was going because he's your audience.

1:00:30

Right.

1:00:30

That's sad to me like that.

1:00:33

But people are missing out on that.

1:00:34

Yeah.

1:00:35

Cool.

1:00:35

You just you might as well just read your kid a story because you really didn't

1:00:39

write him a story.

1:00:40

That's not and so I don't know.

1:00:42

That's the thing that that I hope as a society because you're right, it is

1:00:46

coming and it's here and it's not slowing down.

1:00:49

And but I hope that we can still steal away those moments where we don't want

1:00:54

to use it because Johnny's little dad may have missed his second calling of

1:00:58

being a children's story author because he never pushed himself to have to do

1:01:03

it.

1:01:04

And that could have been really cool.

1:01:05

I don't know.

1:01:07

I just that's I'm not I'm not completely against AI.

1:01:11

I know what you're saying.

1:01:12

Yeah.

1:01:12

And you're always going to have people that give up.

1:01:15

Yeah.

1:01:17

That's just how life is.

1:01:18

You're always going to have people that don't find another way.

1:01:20

You can't save those folks.

1:01:23

And I don't even want to because I think that's part of the whole process of

1:01:27

culture.

1:01:27

I think we have to figure it out by watching people fail.

1:01:30

And unfortunately, some of us have to have to fail and it doesn't mean you fail

1:01:34

forever.

1:01:34

If that guy figures out that he's on the wrong path and he's got some self-assessment

1:01:39

ability and he looks back and I was like, what did I do wrong?

1:01:42

Why am I being such a bitch?

1:01:43

Why don't I just get my life together?

1:01:45

Like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

1:01:46

Why am I drinking?

1:01:47

Why am I smoking?

1:01:48

Why am I?

1:01:48

Why am I killing my health?

1:01:50

Why am I, you know, depressed?

1:01:52

Why don't I just go for a run?

1:01:53

Let's see how that goes.

1:01:54

I'm going to sign up for a yoga class.

1:01:56

How about that?

1:01:57

Yeah.

1:01:57

I'll just try that for a while.

1:01:58

I'll do something different.

1:02:00

I'll start taking vitamins.

1:02:01

Fucking do something.

1:02:02

Figure out something else that you like to do.

1:02:03

Are you alive?

1:02:05

Are you breathing?

1:02:06

Then life isn't over.

1:02:07

Stop being a bitch.

1:02:08

You could have been born during the time of the Revolutionary War and you just

1:02:11

got shot with a musket and you're bleeding out on a field.

1:02:14

No, you're in Santa Barbara and, you know, you don't like that AI just took

1:02:18

your job.

1:02:19

Find a new job, bitch.

1:02:20

Figure it out.

1:02:22

Like, that's what we all have to do in this life.

1:02:23

There's a lot of different people doing a lot of different things.

1:02:26

Yeah.

1:02:26

And, you know, find out what it is that you can do.

1:02:29

Yeah.

1:02:30

Don't give up and don't, like, AI comes along and you just give up on life and

1:02:34

he could have been amazing at something.

1:02:36

Really?

1:02:36

I doubt it because almost anybody that really is amazing at something has a

1:02:40

desire to figure out how to get that through.

1:02:43

I don't disagree with that.

1:02:44

But there also are safeguards in place that, like, so my dad's entire family,

1:02:49

we grew up in a small town on the Columbia River in Oregon.

1:02:53

And his entire family were longshoremen.

1:02:55

Well, that industry was coming to an end.

1:02:58

And the longshoremen's union actually paid to have those guys trained in

1:03:02

different industry.

1:03:03

That's great.

1:03:05

That's one of the great things about a union.

1:03:06

That's great.

1:03:07

That they can set you up like that and recognize what's happening.

1:03:11

Yeah.

1:03:11

Yeah.

1:03:12

Yeah.

1:03:12

So, you know, I would love for there to be some protections for when people

1:03:17

inevitably do start losing their jobs,

1:03:19

that they're our avenues for them to learn a new trade.

1:03:24

I think that would be a great new addition to the way we approach it.

1:03:30

If they tried to figure out ways to transition people healthy, healthily into

1:03:34

other occupations.

1:03:35

Because there's certain jobs like coders, for example.

1:03:38

Like, my friends that are involved in technology, like, do not go to school to

1:03:44

code.

1:03:44

No.

1:03:45

Like, code for fun if you like coding for fun.

1:03:47

Yeah.

1:03:47

There's a lot of them, the super nerds, they code, those fucking dorks, they

1:03:51

code for fun.

1:03:51

They sit in front of a screen.

1:03:52

Don't make fun of my fan base.

1:03:53

I love them.

1:03:54

Come on, Joe.

1:03:55

Listen, I love those guys.

1:03:56

But also, three years ago, my dad was like, your kid should go into coding.

1:04:01

That's how quickly that changed, though.

1:04:03

You know what I mean?

1:04:04

And that could just be my dad's generation not seeing it, you know, happening

1:04:07

as quickly.

1:04:08

No, they were seeing what was happening was all these guys, these tech guys,

1:04:11

wound up being the richest people on the planet.

1:04:13

So they were seeing it.

1:04:15

But it just only, it's just like a brief window of opportunity to become a tech

1:04:19

oligarch.

1:04:20

Yeah.

1:04:21

And that shit's going to slam shut.

1:04:23

It is.

1:04:23

And the real fear is like, who's going to be in control of AI?

1:04:26

You know, you've got these people like Sam Altman, you've got Elon, you've got

1:04:31

all these, like, super rich people that are going to be in control of the

1:04:35

digital god.

1:04:36

It's a little, that's a little disconcerting as it is.

1:04:38

It is a little scary that the few control the masses.

1:04:42

It's so much power and money.

1:04:44

It's a lot of power.

1:04:45

And just a handful of people.

1:04:46

It's a lot of power.

1:04:47

And you just, I mean, you've got to hope that the people that are in power have,

1:04:52

you know.

1:04:53

Good sensibilities.

1:04:54

They're kind.

1:04:55

A heart.

1:04:56

They're nice.

1:04:56

Yeah, that they realize, like, okay, I've got X amount of billions of dollars,

1:05:00

so this is obviously not what life's all about.

1:05:02

What is life?

1:05:03

What can I do that makes life meaningful?

1:05:06

I could actually probably help people.

1:05:08

Like, legitimately help people.

1:05:11

That would be amazing if people with a lot of money wanted to help people and,

1:05:15

you know, pay their share of taxes and not take advantage of the situation.

1:05:19

Here's the problem with that.

1:05:20

Okay.

1:05:21

I am all for wealthy people paying their share.

1:05:24

I am not for the government deciding what to do with that money when I've seen

1:05:27

what you've done with the money in the past.

1:05:29

You guys are irresponsible.

1:05:30

You've got insider trading running amok amongst people in Congress and you're

1:05:36

not doing nothing about it.

1:05:39

And then you want more money and you say, that's going to fix it.

1:05:42

No, it's the way you handle the money that fucking sucks.

1:05:45

It's not that I wouldn't want to get, I would be happy to pay more in taxes and

1:05:49

live in a place that's just managed perfectly.

1:05:52

I'd be like, God, it's so great living here in America.

1:05:55

Everything's done so well.

1:05:57

It's so beautiful.

1:05:58

It's like everything's well thought out.

1:06:00

Our education system's great.

1:06:01

Nobody is stuck in a bad neighborhood anymore.

1:06:04

All the school systems are fucking top of the food chain.

1:06:08

It's a difficult job to acquire.

1:06:10

It's given a lot of respect and everybody's doing great.

1:06:13

Then I'd be happy.

1:06:14

Yeah, no, for sure.

1:06:15

But it's like, you see some of the money that they've uncovered that was being

1:06:19

spent on nonsense.

1:06:20

And you see what happens with NGOs and nonprofits and they're funneling

1:06:24

billions to these things.

1:06:25

And then it's going to countries and it's helping overthrow governments like

1:06:29

fucking slow down.

1:06:31

But we also have to acknowledge that in the cuts that there were things that

1:06:36

didn't need to be cut.

1:06:38

So we can go and we can look at Elon.

1:06:40

So you brought up Elon Musk.

1:06:41

Let's talk about when he tweeted about an over stuffed bill in 2025.

1:06:48

In the middle of 2025, he was talking about how this bill was just like bloated.

1:06:51

So they took a bunch of shit off of it.

1:06:53

One of the things that fell on that was in 2012, there was a piece of

1:06:57

legislation called the Give Kids a Chance Act.

1:07:01

What it did was it motivated and incentivized drug companies to create drugs

1:07:10

for pediatrics.

1:07:12

Because right now, pediatrics are completely underfunded.

1:07:16

We learned all of this when our daughter got sick.

1:07:18

The National Cancer Institute, 4% of its budget goes to pediatrics.

1:07:23

4%.

1:07:24

So it's already underfunded.

1:07:26

And then when Elon in 2025 tweeted about this, they took off all of the stuff

1:07:32

at the end of the bill.

1:07:34

900 pages.

1:07:35

But what was on it was the Give Kids a Chance Act.

1:07:37

Now, this bill is a voucher program.

1:07:40

So let's say that Tom in his basement wants to create a drug, a new drug for

1:07:45

neuroblastoma that will save our daughter's life.

1:07:49

He's got no money.

1:07:50

But he sees the cure.

1:07:53

So he can go to the FDA and he can say, I got a cure for neuroblastoma.

1:07:57

And they say, great, we're going to fast track you in the FDA, but we're also

1:08:01

going to give you a voucher.

1:08:03

You can sell that voucher because Tom only got, he only has 10 cents.

1:08:06

He can't create this drug.

1:08:07

But with that voucher, he can take that voucher and he can sell it to anyone

1:08:12

for any amount of money.

1:08:13

And what that voucher is, is a front of the line pass.

1:08:16

So he can go sell it to some drug company that has a fat loss drug or a drug

1:08:22

for heart medications, anything.

1:08:25

He can sell it to them and they get to buy it for, what, $50 million.

1:08:28

So now Tom has $50 million for his pediatric drug that's going to save children's

1:08:32

lives.

1:08:33

And this drug company has a voucher that takes them to the front of the line.

1:08:36

Now, do we wish that these drug companies were altruistic and they were just

1:08:42

like creating drugs for peds?

1:08:44

Of course, but they're not.

1:08:46

They're not.

1:08:46

It's not a free market.

1:08:47

So what happens is they've now got their voucher.

1:08:50

Tom has his money to create his drug.

1:08:53

And since 2012, the Give Kids a Chance Act has created over 60 drugs for life-threatening

1:08:59

illnesses for children.

1:09:01

60 drugs.

1:09:02

And because of Elon's tweet, that legislation, because it has to be voted on

1:09:06

every four years, was taken off the end of the bill.

1:09:09

It no longer exists.

1:09:11

So that legislation, it's not in existence anymore.

1:09:15

That is terrible because now there's no incentives for the drug companies to

1:09:19

create drugs for children.

1:09:21

And children are already underfunded.

1:09:24

They get so little.

1:09:25

And so it has to be on the bill at the end of the year.

1:09:27

So what I want is for people just to see the error of their waste.

1:09:32

Yes, it was their waste, of course.

1:09:34

But now you have this bipartisan-supported piece of legislation that has to be

1:09:40

on the end of your bill or it will not get on again.

1:09:43

And then it starts all over again.

1:09:45

It has to be on the end of your bill.

1:09:47

So things like that, yes, can we get rid of the waste?

1:09:49

Absolutely.

1:09:50

But when you see a mistake and you see that you mean a mistake, let's fix it.

1:09:54

Put it back on.

1:09:55

We've got to help children.

1:09:57

It's literally throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

1:10:00

That's literally it.

1:10:01

But that's what we do in this country.

1:10:03

But is that, unfortunately, these bills are crazy.

1:10:06

And one of the things about bills is they, like, it'll have a name and then

1:10:11

what's in the bill deals with multiple subjects.

1:10:14

Yes.

1:10:15

Because a bunch of different things get thrown into the bill.

1:10:17

All the time.

1:10:18

All the time.

1:10:18

There's so much chucked on the end, which is what Elon was talking about.

1:10:21

Right.

1:10:22

They all do that.

1:10:22

So was this connected to something else?

1:10:25

No.

1:10:26

It was just part of it.

1:10:28

It was just part of it that was on there, that was thrown in there at the end.

1:10:32

So there was a part that was chucked off.

1:10:33

From what I understand, and granted, you need to talk to someone much more

1:10:37

informed than I am about this,

1:10:39

but there were about hundreds of pages that were just cut off the end.

1:10:43

So do you think they're just not reviewing what's being cut off?

1:10:47

They're just saying, look, we have to make cuts, just cut it all off?

1:10:49

I think that, yes, that they just needed to cut a bunch off to avoid inspection

1:10:53

and just get the bill passed.

1:10:55

And that's what they did.

1:10:56

And the Give Kids a Chance Act is one of the, in the top 10 of all time, most

1:11:04

bipartisan supported pieces of legislation.

1:11:07

And 2% of bills actually passed.

1:11:09

So it's got to, it literally has to be on the end of the year bill.

1:11:14

And it, it, it surprises me that because there is waste, I know there's waste.

1:11:20

We all know there's waste.

1:11:21

But that we say that children are so fucking important and they get 4% of the

1:11:26

National Cancer Institute's money.

1:11:28

4%.

1:11:29

I just feel like if people knew about that, that couldn't have happened.

1:11:32

We, if I, we had known about that in advance, we could have made a big deal

1:11:35

about that.

1:11:36

Well, we've got two months, we've got two months to get it on there now.

1:11:40

Well, let's try to get it on there now.

1:11:41

But here's the thing, like, I had never heard about this before you talked

1:11:45

about it.

1:11:46

And this is the problem with, I think this part of the pro, I don't, I don't

1:11:50

think they should be allowed to make bills that way.

1:11:53

I think each bill, the, the, the things that are in the bills are so consequential,

1:11:58

it just doesn't make any sense to me that they shouldn't be treated as

1:12:01

individual arguments.

1:12:02

Every single one of them, every, like, if you have a bill and you have 500, I

1:12:07

mean, let's ask Perplexity, our sponsor, what, what is the average amount of

1:12:12

different subjects that are covered in any bill?

1:12:18

Because when there are thousands of pages, they might have stuff in there about

1:12:22

immigration reform mixed in with Second Amendment rights, mixed in with free

1:12:27

speech online, mixed in with support for Israel.

1:12:30

It's weird.

1:12:31

They have thousands of pages.

1:12:33

Well, and you've seen how thick it is.

1:12:35

And there were times, and I don't remember who said it, but there were times

1:12:39

when, when the big, beautiful bill was passing or, you know, before it had

1:12:42

passed that people had admittedly not even read it.

1:12:46

And because how could you read it?

1:12:48

It's so big.

1:12:50

And, and so there is a problem there and, and that is above my pay grade and I

1:12:53

do not know how to fix that, but.

1:12:55

That's a crazy problem.

1:12:56

But I think part of the problem is that it takes, it takes a pissed off mom

1:13:02

whose kid is sick to be like, this is a fucking problem.

1:13:07

This is a problem.

1:13:08

It is a problem that in Portland, where I'm from, that, that OHSU is one of the

1:13:15

top hospitals in the country.

1:13:17

OHSU is given so many grants by the Knight Foundation.

1:13:20

It is a leading hospital.

1:13:23

It is attached to, say it's a tier one hospital.

1:13:25

It is attached to Doernbecher.

1:13:27

Doernbecher is a tier two children's hospital.

1:13:31

It's in the same building.

1:13:32

That's crazy.

1:13:33

That's crazy.

1:13:34

It is crazy to me that a pediatric oncologist makes 50% less than an adult oncologist.

1:13:40

Really?

1:13:41

Just across the board.

1:13:42

50% less.

1:13:42

It doesn't matter what the specialty is.

1:13:44

They all make less money.

1:13:46

That is a problem in this country that our children are not being cared for.

1:13:49

And we're now in a position where we're not, there are no programs, and if

1:13:54

there were, they're gone, that are showing doctors and students that are in

1:14:00

medical school, hey, go into pediatrics.

1:14:03

Hey, if you want to be a, you know, an anesthesiologist, you want job security,

1:14:09

go into pediatrics.

1:14:10

I know you're going to make 50% less, but go into pediatrics.

1:14:13

We need you.

1:14:14

There are not enough.

1:14:15

It's, it's, it's a big problem.

1:14:18

It's a big problem that 50% less, because a lot of these doctors.

1:14:22

And now that's an average as well, by the way.

1:14:23

I mean, when they get out, they already have medical school debt.

1:14:26

They're, you know, then there's liability coverage is very, very high.

1:14:31

Okay.

1:14:33

What is the average amount of subjects included in bills passing in U.S.

1:14:36

Congress?

1:14:37

There's no single fixed number of topics per bill, but analysis of legislative

1:14:41

practices shows strong trends depending on bill type and scope.

1:14:45

The majority of bills passed by Congress include multiple subjects, and the

1:14:49

number has grown over time as omnibus legislation has become the dominant

1:14:54

approach.

1:14:55

Like, what's, give me some numbers, though.

1:14:57

This one has the most.

1:14:58

This is the biggest bill passed.

1:15:00

Okay.

1:15:00

This is, this is so crazy.

1:15:03

5,000 pages?

1:15:04

Consolidated Appropriations Act, which was in 2021.

1:15:08

It has 5,593 pages.

1:15:12

The bill combined all 12 regular appropriation bills for fiscal year 2021,

1:15:17

COVID-19 relief, and numerous unrelated legislation provisions, including Copyright

1:15:22

Alternative and Small Claims Enforcement Act, Protecting Lawful Streaming Act,

1:15:27

Water Resources Development Act, and a variety of other measures on tax,

1:15:31

transportation, energy, and health.

1:15:33

Then nobody's reading that.

1:15:34

They're not reading.

1:15:36

You think AOC read that?

1:15:37

You think George Santos read that?

1:15:41

Nobody read that.

1:15:43

You want to make it about people not reading things?

1:15:45

I'm sure we can get into that.

1:15:46

But, like, I think that.

1:15:47

Well, George Santos is the crazy guy.

1:15:49

Yes.

1:15:50

That was just pardoned.

1:15:50

Yeah, they're just, are they getting him out of jail?

1:15:52

Is he getting free?

1:15:53

I don't know.

1:15:53

I might have him on.

1:15:54

That guy, he's a wild boy.

1:15:56

I don't know.

1:16:00

But these people that are, like, congresspeople that are making hundreds of

1:16:03

millions of dollars through insider trading, and we're just like, I don't know

1:16:06

what to do.

1:16:07

Okay, but here's the thing, though, is that, like, we are, things are not

1:16:12

getting voted on.

1:16:13

Like, that's the other thing, is that, so you take, like, the Give Kids a

1:16:16

Chance Act, and then you take these big bills that have so many pages.

1:16:20

There should be a system in place where things are voted on separately, and

1:16:24

there may be.

1:16:25

I mean, I, this is.

1:16:26

Especially something that is important as pediatric medication.

1:16:30

Like, that just seems, it seems like a travesty to include that in a bunch of

1:16:35

other stuff in a bill.

1:16:36

Well, and, you know, the crazy thing.

1:16:38

So, our daughter's cancer, her treatments and her care afterwards, so she's

1:16:42

still getting this thing called an MIBG scan, which is a nuclear radiation scan

1:16:46

where they inject her body with stuff that is so bad for you.

1:16:50

But it's all to scan her body to make sure that her cancer hasn't metastasized.

1:16:54

Like, it's, we need to know this kind of stuff.

1:16:56

Right.

1:16:56

There's, there's no new technology.

1:16:58

There are, there are, these are things that she's being treated with that have

1:17:03

existed for 30 years.

1:17:05

Wow.

1:17:06

We need new things.

1:17:07

Like, our daughter should never have to get wheeled over to the adult side of a

1:17:11

hospital to get an MRI because they don't have a machine on the children's side.

1:17:16

It's just, things like that should never be happening.

1:17:18

This is the stuff that should be supported by our government and, and, and our

1:17:22

tax dollars.

1:17:23

Yeah, that's a great example of something that should be supported by tax

1:17:26

dollars.

1:17:27

I've always said that the two most important things for people to be, if you,

1:17:31

if, if you want to allocate money towards helping people, it's education and

1:17:36

health care.

1:17:37

Those are number one and number two.

1:17:39

But is there an argument that socialized medicine, I have friends that live in

1:17:44

countries with socialized medicine, like England and Canada, and it's great in

1:17:49

some ways.

1:17:50

But it's also a nightmare because it takes a long time to get a surgery.

1:17:54

A lot of the doctors might not be the best to get quite a few botched surgeries

1:17:58

that my friends have had.

1:18:00

And a lot of them have actually come to America to get surgery in America,

1:18:03

especially UFC guys.

1:18:04

Yeah.

1:18:05

Because they felt like the doctors were better because they're more incentivized.

1:18:09

These doctors are paid better and you're going to get those really hot shot.

1:18:12

This is the guy who does all the ACL tears for the Lakers.

1:18:15

Yeah.

1:18:16

These guys are, so like there's something to be said, but there's something to

1:18:20

be said for the competition that drives innovation and makes people become the

1:18:26

very best in the top of their field.

1:18:27

But also the most important things are not that.

1:18:32

The most important things are regular, ordinary health care.

1:18:36

And some of that stuff can fucking break people.

1:18:39

Like one bad fall when you don't have health insurance and you're a couple

1:18:43

hundred thousand dollars in debt now.

1:18:46

So did you know that the number one cause of debt in our country is a medical

1:18:49

diagnosis?

1:18:50

Yeah, I did.

1:18:51

It's terrifying.

1:18:52

It's terrifying.

1:18:53

So like that alone, I mean, if other countries have that and it does, it might

1:18:59

not be perfect.

1:19:01

Why can't we have that?

1:19:03

And why can't we have that along with specialists that are even better?

1:19:08

Like if you are, if you are, you know, the Lakers, you know, they need a guy

1:19:12

who's just a fucking wizard, pay people more for the very best guys.

1:19:17

So you still have competition.

1:19:18

But the idea that people just can go bankrupt if they get sick, it's like, are

1:19:23

we not looking out for each other?

1:19:25

Like think about how much money we spend on other things.

1:19:28

That's doable because other countries do it.

1:19:30

It really makes me sad.

1:19:31

You know, when every once in a while we would get a medical bill.

1:19:37

We have great health insurance.

1:19:38

The Screen Actors Guild has some of the best health insurance I've ever seen,

1:19:41

mind you.

1:19:42

We take in Oregon where they're not used to seeing the Screen Actors Guild

1:19:45

health insurance.

1:19:46

Doctors will sometimes be like, I have never seen an insurance company cover

1:19:50

this.

1:19:50

I'm like, I know.

1:19:51

Actors.

1:19:52

Yeah, they're really good.

1:19:52

It's phenomenal.

1:19:53

But so we have seen so many people with sick children suffering financially.

1:20:02

You don't think about it.

1:20:04

It's not necessarily even the diagnosis that's causing the bankruptcy.

1:20:10

It's the time.

1:20:12

If your daughter needs a specialized cancer treatment and you've got to drive

1:20:17

six hours each way every day or be put up at the Ronald McDonald House over by

1:20:22

a hospital, you're not going to your work.

1:20:25

You're not, you know, plowing your fields.

1:20:28

You're not going to your nine to five.

1:20:30

You're not because your priority is your kid.

1:20:34

That leads to bankruptcy.

1:20:35

That's a really big problem.

1:20:37

And so it's not even it's not even the insurance.

1:20:40

It's the lack of time.

1:20:41

It's the lack of resources that we give people when they are sick.

1:20:44

It's really heartbreaking.

1:20:46

We got bills sometimes that were like $70,000 and like these crazy numbers.

1:20:54

And, you know, I would take a picture and send it off to our insurance broker

1:20:59

because we have a very, very blessed life.

1:21:01

And I wasn't I mean, I was definitely shocked by it and a little concerned, but

1:21:06

I was like, they'll handle it.

1:21:08

They'll let us know.

1:21:09

Most people don't have that.

1:21:11

You know, they look at that.

1:21:13

And even though that was an error, we should have never gotten that.

1:21:15

It was still, you know, our portion was still $4,000 or something like that.

1:21:21

Why does it cost that much money?

1:21:23

Like, that's the question.

1:21:25

Like, what factors are involved in it costing that much money?

1:21:28

Is it all above ground?

1:21:29

Because I don't think it is.

1:21:30

It definitely has been shown that it's not with some drugs, that they've hiked

1:21:34

the price up of drugs because they know people have to buy it.

1:21:37

Yeah.

1:21:37

They know it's necessary.

1:21:39

You're going to pay.

1:21:41

It is a very messed up system.

1:21:43

It's crazy.

1:21:43

It's a crazy system.

1:21:44

It's got so many problems.

1:21:46

Whenever you have money, it's money.

1:21:49

Whenever they can figure out how to make money with things.

1:21:51

So it's like, is there an argument for some sort of a socialization of that in

1:21:55

this country?

1:21:56

And people that want to say that we shouldn't have any socialism, listen, we

1:22:00

have some.

1:22:01

We do have some.

1:22:02

Here's a big one.

1:22:03

Fire department is a big one.

1:22:05

All right.

1:22:06

We all agree the fire department is worth paying for with our tax dollars.

1:22:10

We all pay.

1:22:10

And the fire department goes where the fire is.

1:22:13

If there's a fire in a poor community, if there's a fire in a rich community,

1:22:16

that's how it works.

1:22:18

We all agree with that because it's a very good part of a functional society.

1:22:22

Well, and we don't want to be like, no, we don't need it.

1:22:24

You have a fire in your health then.

1:22:26

It's the same thing.

1:22:28

You should have calamity centers.

1:22:30

We've set up the socialism of our society is we've set up ways to handle calamities.

1:22:37

We've got ways to set up fires, ways to set up floods, and we pay for it.

1:22:42

And we make sure it's all there because we all need it.

1:22:45

You want a social calamity, no education, massive crime, all the different

1:22:51

problems that plague us that we ignore.

1:22:53

And some great ways to do that, to stop that, is free education and free health

1:22:59

care.

1:23:00

You cut back on most of the problems that people run into.

1:23:04

I agree because one of the biggest problems in our country is mental health.

1:23:07

It's a huge problem.

1:23:08

And a lot of people go untreated because they don't have health care.

1:23:11

And that's what you're seeing in these tents.

1:23:12

Yeah.

1:23:14

You've seen a lot of, you're seeing a lot of mental illness, a lot.

1:23:17

It's a giant portion of it.

1:23:18

And that was all during the Reagan administration.

1:23:20

The Reagan administration, they changed how they, like what they did with

1:23:25

mentally ill people.

1:23:26

And they shut down a lot of these institutions and they just let people become

1:23:30

homeless.

1:23:31

We were just having this conversation the other day because it's inhumane.

1:23:34

To, to, to, to determine how a person should live their life and where they

1:23:38

should live their life.

1:23:39

And, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a very, very complicated gray issue for sure.

1:23:45

You know, you see it in Portland where I live.

1:23:48

It's, it's, um, it is a very complicated issue because there is not one

1:23:52

solution.

1:23:53

It needs to be a multi-pronged solution with, with a lot of hands on deck.

1:23:58

I mean, in Portland, it's gotten, it was all, I think another thing that

1:24:02

Portland did that was, I think, directionally correct, which was they decriminalized

1:24:08

everything.

1:24:09

They said, look, we're not going to criminalize you for doing cocaine or having

1:24:12

mushrooms.

1:24:13

We're just, we're not going to treat that like your personal use is a crime of

1:24:16

anything.

1:24:17

But unfortunately, when they did that, people moved there to do drugs.

1:24:21

Well, unfortunately, when they did that, they didn't put the services in place

1:24:25

ahead of time to be prepared for it.

1:24:27

Well, you would need a lot of services.

1:24:29

You need like real counseling and real healthcare, and you really should have

1:24:33

an Ibogaine center.

1:24:35

If you're going to have anything that is dealing with addiction, which is one

1:24:39

of the primary factors of these people being homeless.

1:24:42

Well, yeah, I mean, it's a chicken egg thing, right?

1:24:45

Because like what comes, what comes first, the addiction or the, you know, the

1:24:49

homelessness.

1:24:50

They should have set up Ibogaine centers.

1:24:52

If you've got a decriminalized society, set up Ibogaine centers in Oregon.

1:24:56

I mean, it'd be the perfect place for it.

1:24:58

You'd be able to help so many people.

1:25:00

Because so many of those folks are just stuck.

1:25:02

Yeah.

1:25:03

They're just stuck.

1:25:03

And if you can get them out of whatever funk they're in, whether it's an opioid

1:25:09

or crystal meth or whatever the thing that is that has captured their life.

1:25:13

And let them find out who they are as a human, you could probably save a bunch

1:25:18

of those folks.

1:25:19

And that can be done.

1:25:20

I do believe that a lot of those people can be saved.

1:25:23

I think that it's really sad.

1:25:27

It's how invisible people are.

1:25:30

Yeah.

1:25:30

Yeah.

1:25:31

It's really sad.

1:25:32

It's really sad.

1:25:32

That's someone's baby.

1:25:33

And you have babies.

1:25:34

You know what it's like.

1:25:35

I know.

1:25:35

And that's what I can't help but thinking.

1:25:36

Think about how much you love your babies.

1:25:37

I know.

1:25:38

And you walk by that with someone's baby that is now on the street, you know,

1:25:41

covered in their own feces.

1:25:42

I know.

1:25:43

It's horrible.

1:25:44

It's horrible.

1:25:45

And it's horrible.

1:25:46

It's just a stain on us as a community that we don't do anything about it.

1:25:51

And the answer is not just lock them up.

1:25:53

I think they're doing something crazy out here where they're bringing in the

1:25:56

National Guard.

1:25:56

They're sweeping up all the encampments.

1:25:58

And like, that doesn't fix it.

1:26:01

You're just penalizing people for being fucked.

1:26:04

Yeah.

1:26:05

But at a certain point in time, though, it's like, you ever watch that show Hoarders?

1:26:09

Yes.

1:26:10

Certain point in time, you've got to burn the house.

1:26:12

All right.

1:26:13

This one lady was keeping bags of poop.

1:26:18

I have tenancies.

1:26:19

She had bottles and bags of poop all in her house.

1:26:22

And they're like, we're going to have to destroy this house.

1:26:23

This is insane.

1:26:25

It's like that is almost where places like Skid Row are, like, that it's so

1:26:30

crazy that you've let it get this bad for so long to even clean it up.

1:26:35

It's almost like you have to start from scratch.

1:26:36

So it's almost like you'd have to take those people, you'd have to set up

1:26:41

treatment places and take those people and convince them that there's a way to

1:26:45

a life.

1:26:46

That you don't want to live like this forever.

1:26:48

There's a way to a life.

1:26:49

And we're going to try to help you.

1:26:50

And have these places that are set up where they have counselors and food.

1:26:54

They clean people up.

1:26:56

They give them their appropriate mental health medication if they need it.

1:26:59

They talk to them.

1:27:00

They give them activities.

1:27:01

That's not, like, financially prohibitably expensive.

1:27:05

They spent $24 billion in California trying to stop the homeless crisis or help

1:27:11

it.

1:27:11

They didn't do anything.

1:27:12

It got bigger.

1:27:13

It got way bigger.

1:27:14

And they spent $24 billion.

1:27:16

Well, because they're coming over from Texas, being kicked out of Texas.

1:27:19

I don't think they travel.

1:27:21

Go west, young men.

1:27:22

Go west.

1:27:23

I don't think they have that kind of ambition.

1:27:24

No.

1:27:24

I think it's a big problem.

1:27:27

But I also know that, like, it is not, it's a multi-pronged problem, like I

1:27:32

said.

1:27:33

You know, a lot of people don't want to go into the shelters because they have

1:27:36

an animal or they have a lot of stuff.

1:27:38

And there's limits on how many bags you can bring in.

1:27:41

Things like that.

1:27:42

So it's, you know, you're not allowed to have drugs on you.

1:27:46

Things that are prohibitive to persuade people to go into places that have help.

1:27:52

Right.

1:27:53

So I don't know.

1:27:54

It's going to take somebody a lot more creative than me and a lot of money and

1:28:00

a lot of open-minded people to figure out what to do because it's a big problem.

1:28:06

And it's a big problem everywhere, every major city.

1:28:08

Every major city.

1:28:09

It doesn't matter if it's blue or red.

1:28:10

It doesn't matter.

1:28:10

It's a big problem.

1:28:12

The thing is it's fairly recent.

1:28:14

That's what's disturbing.

1:28:15

Because I think that it's a symptom of a society that's lost its way because it's

1:28:19

fairly recent.

1:28:21

There wasn't a time when I was a boy where you had that many homeless people.

1:28:24

You occasionally had a homeless person that you'd run into in like Boston where

1:28:29

I lived or New York City.

1:28:30

You'd occasionally run into homeless people.

1:28:32

But there was no encampments.

1:28:34

Yeah.

1:28:34

There was no – this is a completely new thing as far as I know.

1:28:38

It is new.

1:28:38

There was during the Great Depression though.

1:28:40

But that was just like horrific poverty where they had shanty towns where whole

1:28:44

families were living in these set-up shanty towns because they couldn't afford

1:28:48

to be in a house.

1:28:50

I don't know.

1:28:50

Do you think it's a loss of – in some regard, it's a loss of community and it's

1:28:56

a loss of empathy and caring for people?

1:28:59

Sure.

1:28:59

You know, I know that like in the town that I grew up when somebody was down on

1:29:02

their luck, everybody would come together and help that person.

1:29:04

Yeah.

1:29:05

It doesn't really happen anymore.

1:29:06

You know, we're all so consumed with our own lives and, you know, what's

1:29:09

happening to us, I think.

1:29:11

Yeah.

1:29:11

I think it's not a coincidence that it's happening in the places that have the

1:29:15

most people too.

1:29:16

Of course.

1:29:17

Because where there's the most people, not only are you going to have the

1:29:20

higher percentage or rather a higher number of people with mental illnesses,

1:29:24

but you're also going to have this thing that happens when you have too many

1:29:27

people that live in a place where you don't value each other.

1:29:31

Like, I live in a neighborhood where there's a guy that lives in my

1:29:34

neighborhood, this old fella, and he's always working on his garden.

1:29:38

And every time I drive by, he waves.

1:29:40

I look forward.

1:29:41

Yeah.

1:29:42

I look forward.

1:29:43

To the wave.

1:29:44

To the wave.

1:29:44

I wave that dude.

1:29:45

What's up?

1:29:46

It's like he's a friendly guy.

1:29:48

Everybody drives by his house, he waves at.

1:29:50

Yeah.

1:29:50

And I look forward to waving at that guy.

1:29:52

And that doesn't happen in New York City.

1:29:54

In New York City, you wave at a guy every day.

1:29:56

He's like, what the fuck are you waving at, bitch?

1:29:58

Like, they want to fight you.

1:29:59

Like, you got a problem with me?

1:30:00

Why are you looking at me every day?

1:30:01

Because there's too many people.

1:30:04

There's fucking millions of people all stacked on top of each other.

1:30:08

It's not how we're designed to live.

1:30:09

Yeah.

1:30:10

We're designed to live in some sort of peace and harmony with nature, not like

1:30:15

a new nature.

1:30:16

So this new nature of concrete and electricity is just weird for us.

1:30:21

And so we behave weird.

1:30:22

And then when you see someone who's down, you just think, that's not me.

1:30:27

I'm going to keep on moving.

1:30:28

Whereas if you live in a small town and that was a member of your community,

1:30:32

that's Earl.

1:30:33

Like, oh my God, Earl's passed out in front of a store.

1:30:36

Like, Earl, what's going on, man?

1:30:37

Yeah.

1:30:38

Like, you love Earl.

1:30:39

Pick him up.

1:30:40

Earl's a faceless, nameless person in Manhattan.

1:30:44

He's one of many.

1:30:46

And no one cares.

1:30:47

They just walk right by you on the way to the play.

1:30:49

Well, everybody is, is, everybody's hustling, you know, like that's, it's a, it's

1:30:54

a big thing.

1:30:55

Like it's, it's, we've got too little time in the day, a lot to accomplish.

1:30:59

Everybody's just, how do I get mine?

1:31:02

How do I take care of my family?

1:31:03

How do I protect this?

1:31:04

How do I do that?

1:31:04

How do I, I don't have time to look at Earl.

1:31:06

Exactly.

1:31:07

You know, and, and.

1:31:08

But also, even if you did help Earl, Earl might be an idiot.

1:31:11

It might be like one of them things, you help Earl, and then two days later, he's

1:31:14

smoking crack again.

1:31:15

Earl.

1:31:16

Oh, Earl.

1:31:19

Earl might just be, that just might be Earl.

1:31:21

There's certain people you can't save, and there's always going to be people

1:31:24

like that.

1:31:25

But there's a lot of those folks that genuinely are just down on their luck,

1:31:28

and maybe they had an abusive childhood.

1:31:30

Yeah.

1:31:31

And maybe things went wrong with them at multiple points.

1:31:33

Maybe they had an injury, and they got Oxycontin prescribed to them, and then

1:31:38

all of a sudden they can't get off.

1:31:40

That happens all the time.

1:31:42

Yeah.

1:31:42

I know people that that happened to.

1:31:44

But it's going to take a coordinated effort from our representatives to

1:31:49

actually care about people enough to figure out what the right solution is.

1:31:54

I would like to talk to the people that spent the $24 billion in California and

1:31:59

go, what did you guys do?

1:32:01

Like, how come you didn't do better?

1:32:03

It's like, there's more.

1:32:06

There's more than when it started.

1:32:08

They increased their number.

1:32:10

Well, to me, what that says is that there are more and more people falling

1:32:14

through the cracks every single day then.

1:32:17

There's an enormous number in Los Angeles.

1:32:19

Los Angeles alone is a strange place in some neighborhoods where you're just

1:32:24

driving through.

1:32:26

You're just seeing, like, oh, this is like, if I was looking at a piece of

1:32:30

fruit, and a piece of fruit had, like, this bruised area, and I was like, oh,

1:32:34

what happened to this?

1:32:35

Somebody dropped, like, it's like a damaged part of your society.

1:32:39

You've got these people completely removed from society, just like a bruise,

1:32:44

just sitting there.

1:32:45

They're a part of it, but they're, like, they're a sad part of it.

1:32:49

And that part is getting bigger.

1:32:50

The bruise is bigger.

1:32:52

It's weird.

1:32:53

Well, then, yeah, I mean, we left Los Angeles two years ago, two years ago, can't

1:32:58

even speak, two years ago.

1:33:00

And I love L.A.

1:33:03

I love L.A.

1:33:04

I lived there for 25 years.

1:33:05

It's a great city.

1:33:06

It's a great city.

1:33:07

Great people.

1:33:08

Awesome.

1:33:09

A lot of amazing human beings.

1:33:10

Some of my best friends I met in L.A.

1:33:13

And it's like many other cities.

1:33:16

It has a problem.

1:33:18

And the solution is there.

1:33:21

It just, it's going to require a lot of work.

1:33:24

And I don't know what that is, sadly.

1:33:26

Yeah, I don't know what that is.

1:33:28

But I know that people don't course correct, and that's what's screwy.

1:33:31

What's screwy is just to let this thing get bigger.

1:33:34

Like, you've got to dump a lot of resources into removing these tent

1:33:37

communities, setting these people up in some sort of a community center, some

1:33:43

sort of a rehabilitation center.

1:33:45

Like, make an effort.

1:33:47

There's no way you can allow this because it's just the cost that's happening

1:33:51

just to the neighborhood.

1:33:53

Like, if you live right next door to a tent city and you're trying to sell your

1:33:56

house, like, good luck.

1:33:58

You're not selling your house.

1:34:00

Yeah.

1:34:00

That's going to fuck up everything.

1:34:02

And it's going to fuck it up for them, too.

1:34:03

And it's going to cost everybody money.

1:34:05

You'd be better off spending that money trying to help those people.

1:34:09

And I guarantee you at least some of them are going to pop through on the other

1:34:13

side, figure it out, become successful, and be forever eternally grateful.

1:34:17

And they'll be able to help more people do the same.

1:34:19

There's always a few of those people that come out of those kind of treatment

1:34:22

centers that can help other people do it.

1:34:24

I would be really curious to see, like, statistically what the common

1:34:29

denominator of the majority of the homeless people in the U.S., what it was.

1:34:36

I wonder if there's studies where they actually run around.

1:34:41

It's got to be mostly drugs, right?

1:34:42

No.

1:34:43

I don't know, though.

1:34:44

I don't know.

1:34:45

And granted, I do not know enough about this to be speaking about it with

1:34:47

authority.

1:34:48

But I just jump right to a first conclusion.

1:34:50

But you do talk to some people that find themselves homeless.

1:34:55

And I've had this conversation with somebody who found themselves homeless and

1:35:00

started doing drugs because try spending the night out on the street.

1:35:04

It's not – you're not comfortable.

1:35:07

It's – depending on your circumstances, you know, where you are, potentially

1:35:12

what your gender is, like, you know, what your own mental health is.

1:35:17

Also, you probably have low self-respect at that point in time.

1:35:21

You're sleeping literally outside.

1:35:22

Well, or you have high self-respect, but you had a really shitty fucking day.

1:35:26

Or you're – you know, someone you were caring for had cancer and you lost

1:35:31

your house because they passed and you didn't go to work for a year and a half.

1:35:35

Like, for whatever reason, you then start using drugs because it helps numb the

1:35:42

life.

1:35:42

Right.

1:35:43

So, I don't know.

1:35:44

I think you're right.

1:35:45

There are – that a lot of people who do do drugs find themselves on the

1:35:48

street.

1:35:48

But I also think that a lot of people who are on the street for other reasons

1:35:52

find their way to drugs.

1:35:53

And so, it's – it is just a – it's a really big problem with a lot of

1:35:59

moving parts.

1:36:00

And I think, first and foremost, we have to – trying to find our way to

1:36:05

empathy and figure out how to help people.

1:36:07

Yeah, it's very well said what you said.

1:36:09

I completely agree with.

1:36:11

And I think it can be done.

1:36:12

I think it just – I think it could be done with that $24 billion.

1:36:18

I just think that there's a lot of incentive.

1:36:20

There's a lot of wasted money in this country.

1:36:22

Let's be honest.

1:36:23

It is.

1:36:23

It's also – this is a thing, unfortunately, that they campaign with.

1:36:28

You know, when there's certain issues that I think politicians genuinely don't

1:36:33

want resolved because they can campaign on solving those problems.

1:36:39

I really do think that.

1:36:40

I talked to Rep Luna, and she actually said that.

1:36:43

And I was like, so you really think they do that?

1:36:46

And she's like, absolutely.

1:36:47

That is so dark that they would not want solutions from both sides.

1:36:52

Yeah.

1:36:53

Because they would rather keep the argument in place.

1:36:56

So, they go, if it's up to me, I'm going to go out there, and I'm going to stop

1:37:00

gay marriage.

1:37:00

And then it becomes a thing that they want – they would like to repeal gay

1:37:05

marriage just so they have the ability to fight to bring back gay marriage.

1:37:09

Like, that's how twisted some of these people are.

1:37:11

It wouldn't surprise me.

1:37:12

It's not – I'm not surprised.

1:37:14

I think that's probably what happened with Roe v. Wade.

1:37:17

I think that's probably part of it.

1:37:19

I mean, government is a business.

1:37:20

We have to acknowledge that.

1:37:21

It's a crazy business.

1:37:23

Everybody gets paid.

1:37:24

There's so much money in that business, and they really do like having problems

1:37:27

to campaign against.

1:37:29

They openly talk about it.

1:37:30

Like, we're going to get them on this one.

1:37:32

Like, they like that problem.

1:37:33

Keep that problem going.

1:37:34

You know what, though?

1:37:34

You know what we should do?

1:37:35

We should give them problems that, like, legitimately – like, big problems

1:37:39

that matter, like saving children.

1:37:41

Well, that would be great.

1:37:42

And, like, education and things like that.

1:37:45

You know, you shouldn't – you shouldn't – people shouldn't have to move

1:37:49

house because they're trying to chase a public school that's better.

1:37:53

Like, the existing public school should be great.

1:37:56

And we should have tried to invest in that a long-ass time ago.

1:37:59

Well, and we should pay our fucking teachers.

1:38:00

Yeah.

1:38:00

How about that?

1:38:01

Yeah, a lot more.

1:38:02

My mom was a teacher for 35 years.

1:38:04

She had a master's degree, and she made something like $35,000 a year.

1:38:08

I know.

1:38:09

It's crazy.

1:38:09

You have to love what you do, like, and only want to do it because you love it.

1:38:13

Whereas there's so many jobs that pay so much more.

1:38:16

But why is it in our country that anything to do with children gets underpaid?

1:38:22

I don't know.

1:38:23

When they're the future.

1:38:24

Well, if you wanted to put a tinfoil hat on, I'm trying to keep people down,

1:38:27

trying to hold down society so I can control it.

1:38:30

I just want to fuck up the education system, put as little money into it as

1:38:33

possible.

1:38:34

It's guaranteed chaos, guaranteed lawlessness, at least in some segments of

1:38:38

society.

1:38:38

That way we can always have reasons to bring the military onto the streets and

1:38:42

reasons to arrest people and reasons to enact new laws and reasons to put

1:38:46

people on digital ID.

1:38:47

Like, if you wanted to get really cynical, you would say, well, they didn't

1:38:50

solve it because they don't want to solve it because they want the south side

1:38:53

of Chicago to still look like Afghanistan at the height of the war.

1:38:56

They want chaos.

1:38:57

They want murder on the streets because that way they keep people scared and

1:39:00

that way they campaign against these various sides.

1:39:03

If you really wanted to get dark, you would look at it that way.

1:39:06

I think what happens is, more than anything, is that it's, like, really

1:39:10

difficult to get anything done.

1:39:12

I think that's the truth.

1:39:14

I think that is the truth.

1:39:15

And it's, like, politically, it is – it's not your best weapon.

1:39:20

Like, your best weapon are what are the big cultural issues.

1:39:24

You know, if it is immigration reform, if you're one of those people that wants

1:39:27

to close the border and want to stop these immigrants coming through.

1:39:31

And if you're on the other side, if it's, like, we want compassion and we want

1:39:35

health care for all, like, then those are the things that you start throwing

1:39:39

around.

1:39:40

Those are the things that are going to get you votes, right?

1:39:42

If you say, I'm going to campaign to make sure that we have health care for

1:39:45

infants because right now pediatricians and physicians don't get paid as much.

1:39:50

And this is what I'm campaigning on.

1:39:51

People will be, like, okay, what about global warming?

1:39:54

What about climate?

1:39:55

But then – so you have someone that does that.

1:39:57

They run on that and wanting to get equal pay for pediatricians and higher pay

1:40:02

for teachers.

1:40:03

And, like, let's really run on, you know, what's better for our children.

1:40:07

And they get elected and then they go to work on Monday morning and everyone's,

1:40:12

like, you can't do that.

1:40:13

I mean, I know you got elected on it, so good luck.

1:40:16

You're going to spend the next two years of your life, you know, trying to keep

1:40:19

your constituents happy.

1:40:21

And we're going to block you at every turn.

1:40:23

But we're going to block you at every turn.

1:40:24

Yeah.

1:40:24

Every turn.

1:40:26

It should have been done that way a long-ass time ago.

1:40:28

That's the problem.

1:40:29

It's, like, I don't understand how anybody who loves their kids would not want

1:40:33

their kids to be taught by the best people possible.

1:40:36

So unless you're in abject poverty where you can't even think about where your

1:40:40

taxes go, if you have children, you should be thinking, like, boy, I hope they

1:40:45

get the best people to teach my kids.

1:40:48

Instead, we get people that are willing to take a job that pays so little that,

1:40:52

like, almost anybody with a bachelor degree can get a better job somewhere else

1:40:57

financially.

1:40:58

Get more, you may get paid more as a waiter than most teachers get.

1:41:02

Oh, please.

1:41:02

You'd get more money as a dog walker.

1:41:04

Probably.

1:41:06

You would.

1:41:06

A girlfriend of mine.

1:41:07

If you have a good group of dogs.

1:41:08

A girlfriend of mine was a lawyer, a trial lawyer, new trial lawyer, but, you

1:41:14

know, making good money.

1:41:17

And she had, and I might get this wrong, but she got, she had stress-induced

1:41:24

pancreatic shutdown.

1:41:26

So her body as an adult had type 1 diabetes, which is, like, crazy.

1:41:30

And it was all due to stress.

1:41:33

So they told her, you know, you're going to have diabetes now.

1:41:36

It's not like type 2.

1:41:37

Like, this is it.

1:41:38

But you still need to reduce your stress.

1:41:40

And so she stopped being a lawyer.

1:41:42

Her husband was like, okay, great.

1:41:43

Like, this is it.

1:41:44

We've got to reduce stress.

1:41:45

So she quit her job and stayed home and started doing yoga and was like, okay,

1:41:50

I think I'm ready to try and contribute a little bit again and figure something

1:41:55

out.

1:41:56

And maybe I'll go walk dogs because, you know, I like dogs.

1:41:59

Long walks will be stress-reducing.

1:42:01

I can make a little extra money.

1:42:03

Why not do that?

1:42:03

By the time she started watching our dogs, like, at her home overnight for,

1:42:08

like, a month while I was on location, she was making more money as a dog

1:42:12

sitter slash dog walker than she ever did as a lawyer.

1:42:18

But she sounds like an exceptional dog walker though.

1:42:20

Crazy.

1:42:21

Can you get a lawyer's mind to the dog walking business?

1:42:24

I mean, I don't, maybe I would get, like, a picture every day.

1:42:27

But she wasn't, like, I mean.

1:42:28

It's very valuable if you love your dogs.

1:42:29

If someone's, like, you really trust to take care of your dogs.

1:42:32

But those are the jobs, right?

1:42:33

Talking about jobs and, like, children.

1:42:35

Like, those are the jobs.

1:42:36

Like, you know, if I was, I keep telling my nephew, like, every day, he's like,

1:42:39

I don't know what to do with my life.

1:42:40

And I'm like, be a plumber.

1:42:41

Like, go on your own business.

1:42:44

Find a job where we're always going to need you.

1:42:47

Yeah, that's good, yeah.

1:42:48

Open a dog walking service.

1:42:50

Start there.

1:42:51

Like, do something.

1:42:53

Do something.

1:42:53

But more importantly, what do you want to do?

1:42:56

What do you want?

1:42:56

It's so hard for people to figure out.

1:42:58

Because you're judging what you want to do based on what you see everyone

1:43:02

around you do.

1:43:03

And, you know, I was blessed at a very young age to wake up in the morning and

1:43:08

know what I wanted to do.

1:43:10

Yeah, I was very fortunate.

1:43:12

That's very rare.

1:43:12

Well, that's a gift.

1:43:14

That's a gift the universe gave you.

1:43:16

Because if you're just like, I don't know where to start.

1:43:18

I don't know what to do.

1:43:19

Yeah.

1:43:19

I think with people like that, generally, they've never tried.

1:43:24

This is what I think is one of the things that's very important for kids.

1:43:27

Find a thing.

1:43:29

Whatever that thing is.

1:43:30

Whether your thing is painting.

1:43:32

Whether your thing is music.

1:43:33

Whether your thing is sports.

1:43:35

Just find a thing that's hard to do.

1:43:37

And work on getting better at that thing.

1:43:39

And that will teach you so much about what life is.

1:43:43

And if you don't do that, if you just do the work that school gives you and

1:43:47

then you go home and you watch TV and then you hang out with your friends and

1:43:50

you do the work at school.

1:43:51

And you don't get involved in anything that really tests you as a person.

1:43:55

Like, test your creativity.

1:43:57

Test your endurance.

1:43:59

If you want to be a runner.

1:44:00

Are you willing to get up every morning and actually do the work?

1:44:03

Things that test you, they teach you the process of enjoying things and getting

1:44:09

better at things.

1:44:10

And when people don't go through that when they're young, it's a real problem

1:44:15

trying to find a thing and commit to it.

1:44:17

You almost have to stumble upon it and get lucky.

1:44:20

My parents, though, like when, you know, I didn't, I wasn't raised by anybody

1:44:24

in the arts.

1:44:25

My dad's a builder.

1:44:26

My mom was a teacher.

1:44:28

And my parents, not one day of my life told me I couldn't do something.

1:44:32

Like every single day they were like, go for it.

1:44:36

Why not?

1:44:36

Like, sure.

1:44:37

You know, I do believe my dad always said like, you know, second place is just

1:44:42

the first loser.

1:44:43

So I did have a dad like that.

1:44:46

But like he said it sort of like, you know, he was building competition.

1:44:50

Like he also knew that I was the child that he could say that to and it would

1:44:53

motivate me.

1:44:54

He didn't say that to my brother who were very two different, you know,

1:44:57

children.

1:44:57

Yeah, you got to figure that out.

1:44:58

But my parents told me I could do things, you know, and then at a very young

1:45:03

age, this

1:45:03

is where representation matters.

1:45:04

At a very young age, I, in high school, was dating a hockey player who was my

1:45:09

age, was

1:45:10

playing for the WHL team in Portland and got drafted.

1:45:14

So when I was 17 years old, I saw an 18 year old get drafted in the NHL.

1:45:19

And in my mind, somebody my age did something really hard that required a lot

1:45:24

of work, but

1:45:25

he made it.

1:45:26

And him making it and seeing that happen in a counterpart of mine gave me the

1:45:31

courage

1:45:31

to go, I'm moving to California.

1:45:33

Whoa.

1:45:34

You did it.

1:45:35

I can do it.

1:45:35

Whoa.

1:45:36

So you have to have both.

1:45:38

You have to have encouraging parents and you have to have the means to be able

1:45:42

to pursue

1:45:42

the things that you want to pursue.

1:45:44

But you also have to have representation and see other people around you

1:45:48

succeed that are

1:45:48

your age or that you identify with or that look like you.

1:45:52

That's important, too.

1:45:52

That's huge.

1:45:53

Yeah.

1:45:54

Inspiration is so important.

1:45:55

So important.

1:45:56

It starts with teachers, too, right?

1:45:57

Sure.

1:45:58

Kids need one good teacher.

1:46:00

I had one good science teacher when I was in the seventh grade and he said

1:46:03

something that

1:46:04

I think about all the time.

1:46:05

He, I'd never thought about this before.

1:46:08

He said, I want you to really hurt your head.

1:46:10

I want you to look up at the sky and think about how far forever is.

1:46:15

Think about the idea of infinity.

1:46:17

Just, just really think about it.

1:46:20

Just only look at the stars at night and think about infinity.

1:46:22

Because you can't.

1:46:25

You can't even wrap your head around it.

1:46:26

Yeah.

1:46:27

He was an intense dude.

1:46:29

He was a Vietnam vet.

1:46:30

He was like a little shaken up and you can kind of tell.

1:46:33

Yeah.

1:46:34

But he really loved science.

1:46:36

He really loved science.

1:46:37

And he was, uh, he was just trying to get us to understand how fucking crazy.

1:46:45

The world is like, we really want you to think about this.

1:46:50

Yeah.

1:46:50

Like you're on a planet in space.

1:46:52

I, I never thought about it before that.

1:46:54

And I was like, oh, the stars, there's the moon.

1:46:56

I never really thought about forever.

1:46:58

The idea of like even being able to imagine where, where's my mind going when

1:47:02

it's imagining

1:47:03

infinite space.

1:47:05

Yeah.

1:47:06

It's, uh, it's crazy how small we are.

1:47:10

Yeah.

1:47:11

Yeah.

1:47:11

And we're probably, we were just going over this the other day.

1:47:14

We're probably the whole thing's probably fractal.

1:47:17

There's this photograph.

1:47:19

It's a crazy photograph of a human brain cell next to a map of the universe.

1:47:26

And they look like the same thing.

1:47:29

It's really weird.

1:47:31

So we're all like living in Orion's belt around a cat's neck and men in black.

1:47:35

Well, my joke was that there's a guy that's his eye, right?

1:47:41

And he's depressed and he's going to blow his brains out.

1:47:43

And that's the big bang.

1:47:44

Oh, jeez.

1:47:45

We're a part of, look at this.

1:47:47

So on the left is a brain cell.

1:47:49

On the right is the universe.

1:47:50

Yeah.

1:47:51

Wow.

1:47:53

It's kind of nuts.

1:47:54

I mean, it's kind of like dead on.

1:47:56

It looks exactly like the same thing.

1:47:59

It really does.

1:48:01

I mean, it's like the structure of it is amazing.

1:48:05

But if why, why wouldn't we believe if we believe in subatomic particles?

1:48:10

Okay.

1:48:11

We believe there are things that exist in the subatomic world that are behaving

1:48:16

like magic.

1:48:17

Like they're moving and not moving at the same time.

1:48:21

They appear and disappear.

1:48:22

We don't know where they're going.

1:48:23

There's some sort of quantum entanglement that they show where particles that

1:48:28

are not even remotely connected to respond to each other.

1:48:32

Why wouldn't we think that we are subatomic in another being?

1:48:37

That's true infinity.

1:48:39

True infinity is not just the size of the universe itself being infinite, but

1:48:43

of literally your universe is a small part of another being that's in another

1:48:51

universe.

1:48:52

I mean, anything's possible, right?

1:48:57

The whole thing is so weird.

1:48:59

We know so little about the universe.

1:49:01

It's so weird.

1:49:02

Yeah.

1:49:02

It's so weird.

1:49:03

We have no idea.

1:49:04

We're literally flying through space and we're, you know, arguing over who's a

1:49:09

Nazi.

1:49:09

And the whole thing is just very bizarre.

1:49:12

It's very bizarre.

1:49:14

It is pretty amazing when you look at how small we are.

1:49:19

We've started like reading our daughter's interested in space.

1:49:22

And so we've started looking at books and talking about the Milky Way and what

1:49:27

the universe is and what Earth is and where we live.

1:49:32

It's pretty amazing when you realize how fragile the whole thing is because it's

1:49:38

so, we're so tiny.

1:49:39

We're so tiny.

1:49:40

We're so tiny.

1:49:41

Yeah.

1:49:42

Yeah.

1:49:43

And our galaxy is so tiny.

1:49:45

That's what's nuts.

1:49:46

Yeah.

1:49:46

Our galaxy is immense.

1:49:47

Hundreds of billions of stars.

1:49:49

Tiny, little tiny thing.

1:49:51

Little tiny, cute little galaxy.

1:49:53

Little tiny, little.

1:49:53

Little sweetie, little galaxy.

1:49:55

Oh, look at that little dot right there.

1:49:57

Have you been paying attention to this object that's hurtling towards Earth?

1:50:01

It's called A30.

1:50:03

They're calling it A31.

1:50:04

I try to avoid things that are going to give me nightmares.

1:50:08

Are we going to send—

1:50:09

This one is extraterrestrial, perhaps.

1:50:11

Is it really?

1:50:12

We're going to meet the aliens finally?

1:50:13

There's something weird about it.

1:50:14

We were just going over it the other day.

1:50:16

There was an article that was stating that whatever they use to detect what is

1:50:22

around this,

1:50:23

they can detect the composition, whether it's like mostly water, vapor, mostly

1:50:29

iron.

1:50:30

This thing is giving off the indications that is an alloy that is only exists

1:50:38

on Earth through industrial alloy making processes.

1:50:42

Okay.

1:50:42

That it's not a natural metal.

1:50:44

Okay.

1:50:44

And that's what they're getting is the signal that this thing that is hurling

1:50:50

through space,

1:50:51

this massive object that's moving, by the way, from the same direction in space

1:50:56

where the wow signal came.

1:50:58

I don't know what that is.

1:51:00

The wow signal is a, they believe, intelligently generated signal that they

1:51:06

picked up.

1:51:07

I think it was in the 70s.

1:51:08

It was in the 70s.

1:51:09

No.

1:51:10

I should know this.

1:51:12

I'm going to lose my nerd code.

1:51:13

No, it's okay.

1:51:13

It's a weird one.

1:51:15

It's a little obscure.

1:51:16

So they, I don't know what the exact technique they were using to monitor radio

1:51:20

waves in space,

1:51:21

but they got a signal.

1:51:23

So here it is.

1:51:24

The wow signal is a powerful 72-second narrow-band radio signal detected on

1:51:28

August 15th, 1977,

1:51:30

by the Big Ear Radio Telescope at Ohio State University, which initially

1:51:35

suggested an extraterrestrial origin.

1:51:39

Name for the wow written in printout by the astronomer, Jerry Eamon, Eamon, Eamon.

1:51:45

The signal had characteristics expected from a technological source, but follow-up

1:51:50

efforts have failed to detect it again.

1:51:53

The leading hypothesis is that a natural astrophysical event, such as a flare

1:51:58

from a magnetar,

1:51:59

briefly illuminated a cold hydrogen cloud, causing it to emit radio signal

1:52:03

similar to a laser.

1:52:05

Or it's a laser.

1:52:06

And then this object is coming from that.

1:52:10

From that area.

1:52:11

Yeah, look at that.

1:52:12

They sent you a signal.

1:52:15

And then now this thing is coming through there.

1:52:17

So if you think, like, how fast this thing is going, if it came from, you know,

1:52:21

the other side of the galaxy,

1:52:22

it's probably exactly how long it would take to get here.

1:52:24

So it's coming directly for Earth?

1:52:27

No, it's coming near Earth.

1:52:29

Right.

1:52:30

So we're not worried it's going to hit us.

1:52:31

No, I don't believe we're worried.

1:52:32

Well, I'm going to find out tomorrow.

1:52:33

Avi Loeb, an astronomer from Harvard, is coming on.

1:52:36

Okay, amazing.

1:52:37

And he's going to enlighten us as to what this thing is all about.

1:52:40

But it's weird.

1:52:42

Like, as it gets closer, it's weirder and weirder.

1:52:45

They've never seen anything like this thing before.

1:52:47

But is it possible, then, that another planet out in the, like, universes, like,

1:52:54

isn't made up of,

1:52:57

has alloy properties and it could have chipped off and it's now hurtling

1:53:01

through space?

1:53:02

Yeah, you would have to ask, like, a metallurgist that question.

1:53:05

That's a good question.

1:53:06

They just know the only way it exists on Earth is through this industrial

1:53:09

process.

1:53:10

If it is that stuff.

1:53:11

Yeah.

1:53:11

Why do they think it's that stuff?

1:53:13

Do you remember that article?

1:53:14

We looked it up, like, a couple of days ago.

1:53:16

It, um, look, it's so fun to think it's a spaceship.

1:53:20

Of course it is.

1:53:21

So fun to think the Cylons are coming.

1:53:23

Because they might be.

1:53:24

Yeah, they might be.

1:53:25

Do you think they're coming to save us?

1:53:27

I think they would have already stepped in if they were going to do that.

1:53:30

You'd think so.

1:53:31

Yeah, sure.

1:53:32

There's been, you know, they would have stepped in right after World War II.

1:53:35

I don't know.

1:53:35

They'd be like, hey, hey, hey, with the fucking nukes.

1:53:38

Or do you think they're just up there going, you're going to have to save

1:53:41

yourself, kids.

1:53:42

Perhaps.

1:53:43

Maybe.

1:53:43

Perhaps it's a process that all intelligent emerging life goes through.

1:53:47

And then, you know, you have to kind of let it go through the process.

1:53:51

Like, you have to let your kids fall down.

1:53:53

Um, in contrast to all-node comets, including the interstellar comet 21 Borisov,

1:54:00

the observed spectrum of the gas plume around 31 Atlas shows prominent nickel

1:54:04

emission,

1:54:04

but no evidence for iron.

1:54:06

Other than 31 Atlas, this anomaly was only known to exist in industrially

1:54:11

produced nickel alloys

1:54:13

through the carbonyl chemical pathway,

1:54:15

which refines nickel through the formation and decomposition of nickel tetracarbonyl.

1:54:22

The authors of the new paper postulate that this carbonyl process is realized

1:54:28

naturally

1:54:28

near the nucleus of 31 Atlas.

1:54:31

They argue that this in situ formation of this thing predicts that nickel

1:54:37

should be strongly

1:54:38

concentrated near the nucleus.

1:54:40

So it's like the whole thing is some very weird metal.

1:54:44

That's the point.

1:54:45

And it's, it's also there, it's weird the way it's moving.

1:54:51

What are they saying about the way it's moving?

1:54:53

There's something about self-correcting or something.

1:54:55

I think that they thought it had some emission.

1:54:58

I don't know.

1:54:59

Looked like a jet, but I don't think so.

1:55:01

It seemed, no, it did seem like they were saying that it's very far away.

1:55:04

It's very far away.

1:55:06

So maybe it's the silence coming back.

1:55:09

They're like, we have to go save our parents.

1:55:11

Have you seen they got a telescope that actually took video of it?

1:55:14

That's what amazes me is that we have telescopes that can see that far.

1:55:17

I can send it to you, Jamie.

1:55:19

This guy has it on his Twitter page.

1:55:21

But it's like, it's very low resolution, obviously, because it's fucking

1:55:25

millions of miles away.

1:55:27

But whatever it is, it's really weird.

1:55:30

It's really weird.

1:55:31

You know, people ask me all the time if I believe in aliens.

1:55:34

I think just because of what I do for a living and the genre that I'm in.

1:55:38

I couldn't wait to talk to you about aliens.

1:55:40

What I always say, you're going to be vastly disappointed that I know so little

1:55:43

about them.

1:55:44

But what I always say is, I think it's a line from a movie where it would be an

1:55:49

awful waste of space if it was just us.

1:55:53

Yeah, that is a line in a movie.

1:55:54

I don't remember what movie it was.

1:55:55

It's from the movie with Jodie Foster.

1:55:58

Contact.

1:55:58

Contact.

1:55:59

Oh.

1:55:59

When her dad says to her that it would be an awful waste of space.

1:56:03

Yeah.

1:56:04

Beautiful movie.

1:56:05

It's a great movie.

1:56:06

Carl Sagan wrote that book.

1:56:08

That's it.

1:56:09

So this is the thing.

1:56:11

Like, what is that?

1:56:12

What the fuck is this?

1:56:14

Like, obviously, low resolution, obviously moving through space, but also, what

1:56:21

the hell is that?

1:56:23

Well, it seems to be moving pretty quickly, yeah?

1:56:25

Yeah.

1:56:26

It looks like a spaceship.

1:56:27

I mean, it also looks like a dust bunny.

1:56:30

I was showing my friend Matt last night.

1:56:33

We were having dinner, and I was showing him videos of praying mantises killing

1:56:37

hummingbirds because he didn't believe it.

1:56:38

Stop.

1:56:39

He's like, no way.

1:56:39

Well, they're big.

1:56:40

Praying mantises can be quite big, right?

1:56:42

Not in comparison to hummingbirds.

1:56:44

It's crazy how strong they are.

1:56:46

Stop.

1:56:47

They literally kill hummingbirds?

1:56:48

They just snatch hummingbirds right off feeders.

1:56:50

So they sit by the hummingbird feeder motionless, and the hummingbird comes in

1:56:54

to take a drink and just snatches them.

1:56:56

What do they do with them?

1:56:57

Eat them.

1:56:57

Stop.

1:56:58

It's crazy.

1:57:00

Praying mantises are so ruthless.

1:57:02

Makes me really sad.

1:57:03

Well, they eat their own young, right?

1:57:06

They probably do.

1:57:07

I mean, I don't know.

1:57:08

Yeah.

1:57:09

I don't know if they do that, but I know that they put a praying mantis in a

1:57:13

box, and then they'll drop a roach in, and the praying mantis just snatches it

1:57:17

up and just starts eating the roach alive.

1:57:19

Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel bad.

1:57:21

But it does it to this bird.

1:57:22

That makes me feel bad.

1:57:23

But the thing is, like, why couldn't that be an intelligent life form from

1:57:28

another planet, like, and then come here on 31 Atlas and land?

1:57:31

I mean, that is a possibility.

1:57:34

Well, that's the thing, right, is that we spend so much time, or I guess in our

1:57:37

imagination, like, we've been conditioned to think that, you know, intelligent

1:57:41

life looks like something from these movies.

1:57:44

So we all think intelligent life is, you know, these guys with big heads, or

1:57:49

they look like us, or, you know, whatever we think.

1:57:53

But they absolutely could literally be a flea.

1:57:55

It could be a six-foot-tall mantis.

1:57:56

It could be.

1:57:57

Yeah.

1:57:58

Yeah.

1:57:58

And then we'd be in real trouble.

1:58:00

Real trouble.

1:58:00

Hey, it's like, absolutely.

1:58:03

Show her one of those praying mantises getting a hummingbird.

1:58:06

This is going to make me really sad, you guys.

1:58:09

It makes me sad, too.

1:58:10

I love hummingbirds.

1:58:11

Yes.

1:58:11

Have you ever wanted to wear one of those hats with the hummingbird feeders on

1:58:15

it?

1:58:15

No, do people do that?

1:58:17

That's so crazy.

1:58:18

Like, they'll put the little things, and they can just stay really still.

1:58:21

They're a beautiful little bird.

1:58:22

They're gorgeous.

1:58:23

A weird little bird, too.

1:58:24

And the way they're able to change direction and move.

1:58:26

It's amazing.

1:58:26

I didn't realize our house where we live now, they stop all the time.

1:58:30

So, like, they'll sit on the branches and stuff, which is really rare to see.

1:58:34

So, this is praying mantises are so nasty.

1:58:38

But look at it.

1:58:39

It kind of knows it's there.

1:58:40

Well, that one.

1:58:42

Oh, my God.

1:58:43

It grabbed us by its beak.

1:58:44

Oh, yeah.

1:58:44

It reached out and just snagged them.

1:58:45

The thing is, they're so strong for their size.

1:58:48

I mean, that is literally like a person trying to take out a cow.

1:58:52

Go down.

1:58:53

There was one, that one, with the praying mantis and the-

1:58:57

And the scorpion.

1:58:58

Oh, the praying mantis is going to kill that scorpion.

1:58:59

That scorpion doesn't have a fucking chance.

1:59:01

I don't know if-

1:59:03

That's what I'm guessing.

1:59:04

Yeah, look.

1:59:05

He's already on top of them.

1:59:06

What?

1:59:07

Yeah, he just mounted them.

1:59:08

But then, look.

1:59:09

He's avoiding the-

1:59:11

Yeah, he's going to figure it out.

1:59:12

He's also avoiding the stinger.

1:59:13

Like, what is happening?

1:59:14

What is happening?

1:59:15

They're probably both trying to figure out why they're in there together.

1:59:18

Oh, my God.

1:59:19

Like, this is the shit of nightmares for me.

1:59:22

Praying mantises are not-

1:59:23

They're monsters.

1:59:24

See if you can find videos of praying mantises eating roaches.

1:59:27

There's like a whole mantis page on Instagram where they put like a different

1:59:33

bug in there with praying mantises.

1:59:35

How do we know it's not AI created, though, guys?

1:59:37

Because this has been around for years.

1:59:38

Yeah.

1:59:39

Yeah.

1:59:39

Praying mantises-

1:59:40

Oh, look.

1:59:41

They fuck up giant lizards.

1:59:42

They kill lizards.

1:59:43

Like, the lizard tried to eat him at the beginning of it.

1:59:46

Oh, my God.

1:59:47

If you watch the video, the actual video, the lizard tried to eat him.

1:59:50

He's like, not today, bitch.

1:59:51

I'll be eating you.

1:59:52

Oh, my God.

1:59:53

That poor lizard thought he was going to eat the praying mantis, and the

1:59:56

praying mantis is eating him.

1:59:58

Like, we are so lucky that they're little.

2:00:01

We're so lucky.

2:00:03

We are so lucky.

2:00:04

I hate-

2:00:05

Because if they were big and smart-

2:00:06

No, and then there's a bird.

2:00:07

I don't want to see the bird die.

2:00:08

Is he killing that bird?

2:00:09

Oh, my God.

2:00:09

The one I found, which I hadn't seen before, it's hanging upside down from a

2:00:13

flower eating right here, eating the bird.

2:00:16

Oh, my God.

2:00:16

It's like-

2:00:17

It's a big bird, too.

2:00:19

That is wild.

2:00:20

Oh, my God.

2:00:21

They are just monsters.

2:00:22

I mean, that's like Alien from the movie Alien.

2:00:25

That's what it's like.

2:00:26

Oh, my God.

2:00:27

It's just little.

2:00:28

My entire mind has been blown.

2:00:31

Right?

2:00:32

Look at that.

2:00:32

That's what a praying mantis can do.

2:00:34

Hang upside down while it's eating a bird.

2:00:37

And literally hanging onto the petals of a flower.

2:00:40

Like, it's nothing.

2:00:41

Upside down.

2:00:42

And with no strain at all.

2:00:44

None whatsoever.

2:00:45

It's carrying a fucking bird.

2:00:47

It's like five times bigger than its body.

2:00:49

Size of, like, a barn swallow.

2:00:50

It's crazy.

2:00:51

Oh, my God.

2:00:52

The crazy thing is these stupid lizards that think they're going to eat them.

2:00:55

Oh, my God.

2:00:57

I mean, it is such a bizarre creature.

2:01:00

I don't want to see any of this.

2:01:01

That poor little beauty.

2:01:03

Oh, they do it all the time.

2:01:04

They get hummingbirds.

2:01:05

So, he's just, oh.

2:01:07

A lot of these have no action, though, too.

2:01:08

I've seen people trying to capture stuff.

2:01:10

But these go back as long as YouTube does.

2:01:13

Some of those are 15-year-old videos.

2:01:14

That's so sick.

2:01:16

Those are the ones I would try.

2:01:17

Oh, but they get them so quickly.

2:01:18

Why do they stop moving so quickly?

2:01:20

They're so fast.

2:01:21

Because they're so strong, too.

2:01:22

This one looks...

2:01:23

That one looks fake.

2:01:24

Yeah, I mean, now it's created within four weeks.

2:01:26

I start going, all right.

2:01:27

Oh, that looks like AI.

2:01:28

Oh, yeah.

2:01:28

That's AI.

2:01:29

But the other ones are...

2:01:30

Those cell phone ones are real.

2:01:31

They're just unbelievably strong.

2:01:34

That's crazy.

2:01:34

I had no idea.

2:01:35

And if there's, like, a spaceship filled with those fuckers...

2:01:38

We're screwed.

2:01:38

And they're all smart.

2:01:39

They're way smarter than us.

2:01:40

We're done.

2:01:41

I think I saw a three-year-old boy getting ready to take on a praying mantis,

2:01:44

too.

2:01:44

I think he's going to lose in one of those videos.

2:01:46

So, future generations are not looking good right now.

2:01:50

Yeah, if you walk up to a mantis, they'll be like, what, bitch?

2:01:52

They stand up.

2:01:53

They will on their hind legs.

2:01:54

They're ready to fight.

2:01:54

We're just lucky they're little.

2:01:57

Right?

2:01:59

It's terrifying.

2:01:59

It's absolutely...

2:02:00

I'm going to go home and tell my husband all about this.

2:02:03

Not my daughter.

2:02:03

So, that's what they have to think about with this 31 atlas.

2:02:06

If it's filled with reptilians, then we've got problems.

2:02:09

What's going on?

2:02:11

Oh, my God.

2:02:11

I cannot laugh at children.

2:02:12

Oh, no.

2:02:13

See, I told you there was one.

2:02:15

Oh, Jesus.

2:02:15

Oh, God.

2:02:16

He's just...

2:02:17

He's like, fuck you.

2:02:18

He tried to eat the baby.

2:02:19

He did.

2:02:20

He tried to eat the baby.

2:02:21

He tried to eat the baby.

2:02:21

That's how gangster pregnant this is.

2:02:24

Oh, my God.

2:02:24

It went after that baby.

2:02:26

He was like, fuck you.

2:02:27

I will eat your entire body.

2:02:29

The thing that's crazy is...

2:02:30

Before someone comes to rescue you.

2:02:31

We don't think of them as being, like, vicious.

2:02:34

No.

2:02:35

I look at them and think that they're super cool.

2:02:37

Like, I would have been that three-year-old kid if I'd ever seen one in our

2:02:41

yard.

2:02:41

I would have been like, hey, honey.

2:02:43

Regular, like, green mantis.

2:02:44

There are some wild mantises out there.

2:02:47

Oh, yeah.

2:02:47

There's more?

2:02:48

Look at that one.

2:02:49

Kung fu mantis.

2:02:50

Wow.

2:02:50

Oh, my God.

2:02:51

Look at that one.

2:02:51

Those are beautiful.

2:02:53

What is that one called?

2:02:55

Kung fu mantis?

2:02:55

Kung fu, yeah.

2:02:56

What a beautiful-looking insect.

2:02:58

Just imagine a planet where that's the size of a horse.

2:03:02

No, we're fucked if that's what's on this copper thing that's coming toward

2:03:07

Earth.

2:03:08

We just got super lucky that the insect world is small.

2:03:11

It's true.

2:03:12

Somehow or another, it worked out that way, where the insect world is small.

2:03:16

Because if the insect world was as big as the mammal world, it would be a wash.

2:03:20

It would be over.

2:03:21

Like if they were the size of elephants?

2:03:22

Well, if they were the size of dogs.

2:03:24

They'd kill us all.

2:03:25

That's true.

2:03:26

Look at what that fucking one praying mantis can do.

2:03:29

Oh, look at that one.

2:03:31

It looks like a flower.

2:03:32

That's a praying mantis.

2:03:33

What is that thing?

2:03:34

Yeah, that's the one we were just looking at, this little guy.

2:03:37

Yeah.

2:03:37

And that's a bigger one.

2:03:38

Whoa.

2:03:39

It's a big, giant mantis.

2:03:40

Holy shit.

2:03:41

That's crazy.

2:03:42

I don't know.

2:03:43

We have to listen to the video to hear what kind it is.

2:03:45

What is it going to do?

2:03:47

Oh, it's heads, the white part in the front.

2:03:50

Yeah, that thing.

2:03:51

That looks like a...

2:03:52

His arms folded up.

2:03:53

Whoa.

2:03:53

Wait, where's his arms folded up?

2:03:55

His arms are folded right in front.

2:03:56

Oh, my goodness.

2:03:58

Got him.

2:03:58

Oh, my goodness.

2:03:59

Stop.

2:04:00

He just...

2:04:01

Oh, my God.

2:04:01

He just bit its head off.

2:04:02

Oh, yeah.

2:04:02

Whoa.

2:04:03

Whoa.

2:04:03

Maybe they just mated.

2:04:04

Who knows?

2:04:05

Jeez.

2:04:06

That's what the females do after mating.

2:04:08

They do.

2:04:08

They just eat them.

2:04:10

Yeah, they fuck up the men.

2:04:11

Yeah, but that's...

2:04:14

Well, that's...

2:04:14

That's how you stay small.

2:04:16

Nature's like, you're too fucking gangster.

2:04:17

We have to keep you little.

2:04:18

We have to keep you...

2:04:19

It's like chihuahuas.

2:04:20

And honey badgers.

2:04:21

And honey badgers.

2:04:22

Don't give a shit.

2:04:22

Imagine if a honey badger was the size of a wolf.

2:04:23

We'd have a real problem.

2:04:24

We'd have a real problem.

2:04:25

We'd have a real problem.

2:04:27

We'd have to make them little, so they're so gangster.

2:04:29

They just...

2:04:30

They never could take over the whole forest.

2:04:33

These fucking honey badgers just like...

2:04:35

I can imagine if a honey badger was the size of a horse.

2:04:38

And they'd just take over an entire swath of land.

2:04:41

There probably were things like that.

2:04:44

There probably were back in the day.

2:04:46

And now we have chickens left.

2:04:48

Do you have to keep up on a certain amount of sci-fi because of playing Starbuck?

2:04:54

Do you feel like an obligation to your fans to hold on to a certain amount of

2:04:57

sci-fi information?

2:04:58

Yes and no.

2:05:00

I feel that I have to maintain and hold on to a respect for the genre.

2:05:06

And the knowledge that I will never have.

2:05:12

There are people that can come up to me and tell me the entire history of Star

2:05:17

Wars.

2:05:18

And before I was in Star Wars, I considered myself a Star Wars fan.

2:05:23

And then I got in Star Wars and I was like, oh, I don't know shit about

2:05:26

anything.

2:05:27

It's a big-ass universe now.

2:05:29

It is.

2:05:30

Especially now.

2:05:31

Keeping up on Mandalorian stuff.

2:05:33

It's like...

2:05:34

No, you can't keep up on anything.

2:05:35

So I just...

2:05:36

I always just say, I would love to know more about that.

2:05:41

Can you please?

2:05:41

That's good.

2:05:43

Can you please enlighten me?

2:05:44

Because I don't know.

2:05:45

I really don't know.

2:05:46

And like these, you know, I have found that the sci-fi community, especially,

2:05:50

like one of my favorite things is going to conventions.

2:05:52

Because I love, I just, I love meeting people and like new people and meeting

2:05:57

the people that are fans of the work.

2:05:59

And we always have things in common.

2:06:01

And I would be so bold as to say that sci-fi fans are some of the smartest

2:06:10

people I've ever met.

2:06:15

I'm sure there are a lot of nerds.

2:06:17

They're very, very, very smart.

2:06:19

And I just, I cannot compete with that.

2:06:23

I can tell you the lines that I can't forget.

2:06:26

There are lines like from Battlestar Galactica, we've got violent decompressions

2:06:31

irradiating from the port flight pod.

2:06:33

I thought I was going to be fired because I couldn't say it.

2:06:37

I had to write it down.

2:06:38

I had to tape it to my Viper.

2:06:40

I was like, oh my God, they're going to find out.

2:06:42

Oh my God, like I shouldn't be here.

2:06:45

This is crazy.

2:06:46

I'm an imposter.

2:06:47

And then I find, now I can't forget it.

2:06:49

I had a line from Mandalorian that I couldn't remember for the life of me.

2:06:53

And so I kept memorizing it with my husband and he was throwing tennis balls at

2:06:56

my face.

2:06:57

So we were, I was catching tennis balls as I was memorizing it.

2:07:01

God, it was that hard?

2:07:02

It was very hard, but it was, um, Pirate King Gorion Shard is captaining a Cumulus

2:07:07

class Corsair of violent snub fighters.

2:07:10

Oh Jesus.

2:07:12

Yeah.

2:07:12

Oh my God.

2:07:13

Yeah.

2:07:14

It was just like.

2:07:15

Somebody hates you in the writer's room.

2:07:16

It's possible.

2:07:17

You know, you never know.

2:07:20

That seems so mean to make someone try to say that.

2:07:23

You say it.

2:07:24

Fucking you say it first.

2:07:25

It's true.

2:07:25

There are times I have, I have since like, uh, Ron Moore was on my podcast and

2:07:29

I told him that like for 25 years, I have not been able to forget this fucking

2:07:32

violent decompressions line.

2:07:34

And he was like, I'm so sorry.

2:07:35

That's hilarious.

2:07:36

I'm so sorry.

2:07:36

That's very funny.

2:07:37

Cause he's aware, like he's aware that, you know, he's making actors say shit

2:07:41

that you should never have to say in real life.

2:07:44

Like, you know, and then furthermore, you have to try and decipher it.

2:07:47

You know, like one of my jobs is to take something I don't understand and then

2:07:51

say it with authority as if I do understand it.

2:07:54

So I have to dissect it and learn what certain things mean.

2:07:57

And if I don't understand it, I have to give it context in something that I do

2:08:01

understand in order to like, sound like I am not an idiot.

2:08:04

Right.

2:08:05

Which at times is hard.

2:08:06

So, you know, it's, it's, it's, God, the, the jargon is, I learned the tennis

2:08:11

ball technique with my husband though.

2:08:14

That's a great technique.

2:08:15

That sounds like a good technique.

2:08:16

You remember it while you're catching tennis balls.

2:08:18

Then you really remember it.

2:08:19

Yeah.

2:08:19

That is a crazy sentence to try to remember.

2:08:22

Yeah.

2:08:22

It was not easy.

2:08:24

It was not easy.

2:08:24

You're a part of something that, that people in, in sci-fi that I think is very

2:08:29

interesting.

2:08:31

Sci-fi is, um, I think the genre of action that has the most badass women.

2:08:38

A hundred percent.

2:08:39

Yeah.

2:08:39

At least it did.

2:08:41

It did for a long time.

2:08:42

I think the OG is obviously Sigourney Weaver.

2:08:46

A hundred percent.

2:08:46

That, I mean, that is like an aside.

2:08:52

No one is like, oh, it's a strong female lead.

2:08:54

That is an aside to an insane movie and an amazing performance.

2:08:59

Like that last scene when she kills that thing.

2:09:03

Yes.

2:09:03

Oh, yeah.

2:09:05

And that's 1979.

2:09:07

Yes.

2:09:08

Amazing.

2:09:08

That character, when I saw that movie, I was like, I want to be her.

2:09:15

Right.

2:09:15

Because up till then I only wanted to be Bruce Willis.

2:09:17

I wanted to like save the Nakadomi building.

2:09:18

You know, like I wanted these, I loved action movies with my dad.

2:09:22

And when he started realizing that I had this affinity toward these movies, he

2:09:27

started showing

2:09:27

me movies with strong female leads.

2:09:29

And Sigourney was the one where I saw that performance.

2:09:33

And she was everything.

2:09:35

She was strong.

2:09:37

She was capable.

2:09:37

She was smart.

2:09:38

She was feminine.

2:09:39

She was funny.

2:09:41

She was so, she was everything.

2:09:42

And it was a perfect movie.

2:09:46

It was a perfect movie.

2:09:48

It was a perfect movie.

2:09:49

Number two, possibly better, even.

2:09:53

Yeah, this is a scene when she blows it out.

2:09:55

I disagree.

2:09:57

You do?

2:09:58

Yes.

2:09:58

Because number two, the aliens are too easy to kill.

2:10:01

This motherfucker is so hard to kill.

2:10:03

So hard to kill.

2:10:04

And then in the second one, they're just gunning him down.

2:10:06

Yeah.

2:10:06

It was a different thing.

2:10:07

It was a different thing.

2:10:08

Look, they're both great movies.

2:10:11

I really loved Aliens.

2:10:12

But the thing about Alien, the first one, was that thing was amazing movie.

2:10:19

Just the way that, I mean, just the, I mean, it's just such an amazing shot.

2:10:22

It's a perfect movie.

2:10:24

The framing of that is beautiful.

2:10:25

Because there was never one moment in that movie where you saw what was coming

2:10:28

next.

2:10:29

No, because we hadn't seen anything like it.

2:10:31

Nothing.

2:10:32

The chestburster scene.

2:10:34

I remember being in the movie theater.

2:10:35

Look at the utter fucking exhaustion on her face.

2:10:38

Crazy.

2:10:40

Yeah.

2:10:42

The chestburster scene was like, what the fuck?

2:10:46

What?

2:10:47

I remember being in the movie theater.

2:10:49

I had no idea that was going to happen.

2:10:51

There was no internet back then.

2:10:52

Yeah.

2:10:53

Watching them like, this movie is nuts.

2:10:56

And that little thing was running around on the ground and his chest was burst

2:11:00

open.

2:11:00

It was so gross.

2:11:01

Everyone's screaming.

2:11:02

There's blood everywhere.

2:11:03

It was wild.

2:11:04

This is one of, probably in my opinion, one of the best movies of all time.

2:11:10

Oh, I agree.

2:11:10

100%.

2:11:11

Yeah.

2:11:11

100%.

2:11:11

And again, the fact that it was a strong female lead was just, there's a tiny

2:11:16

little part

2:11:17

of the movie.

2:11:17

It was just, she was so good.

2:11:20

You didn't even think, oh, it's a strong female lead.

2:11:22

You're like, Sigourney Weaver is a bad motherfucker.

2:11:24

They didn't tell you, this is a strong female lead.

2:11:27

No, exactly.

2:11:28

They just created a phenomenal character and made her a woman.

2:11:31

Exactly.

2:11:32

And she just played the part perfectly.

2:11:34

Yeah.

2:11:35

This fucking scene was so nuts.

2:11:38

It was so nuts.

2:11:40

Because you didn't know what is happening.

2:11:42

I know.

2:11:43

People have to realize, like, before movies were spoiled, there was no spoiler

2:11:47

alerts back

2:11:48

then.

2:11:48

You didn't get to watch clips.

2:11:50

But even just the way it shot, the frenetic energy of the camera.

2:11:54

Yeah.

2:11:54

Matching the frenetic energy of his body.

2:11:57

Yeah.

2:11:57

This is such a crazy scene.

2:12:01

It's crazy.

2:12:02

Bro.

2:12:06

Again, 1979, this is happening.

2:12:12

I mean, the special effects back then were nuts.

2:12:16

To have something like, I mean, this is probably the greatest believable

2:12:20

monster special effects

2:12:21

in any movie up to this point.

2:12:23

I mean, by far.

2:12:25

That was a little bullshit.

2:12:27

That one was like it was on wheels.

2:12:28

That was a little silly.

2:12:29

It's on a piece of string.

2:12:31

Someone's pulling it.

2:12:32

Yeah.

2:12:32

It moved a little weird.

2:12:33

But, you know, it's an alien.

2:12:34

You were still scared as shit, though.

2:12:35

I'm still scared.

2:12:36

But then when you see the actual alien itself, you're like, what the hell is

2:12:41

that?

2:12:41

You never saw anything like that before.

2:12:43

Not only was it completely unique in its design, it was horrific and it looked

2:12:50

like an insect,

2:12:51

like an insect and a reptile at the same time.

2:12:54

Sci-fi was a place because I was a huge fan of strong women and genre work and

2:13:02

I found myself gravitating toward sci-fi because that's where women existed

2:13:09

that I identified with.

2:13:10

And I saw myself like, you know, I didn't see myself as like this, you know,

2:13:16

well, the characters I played when I moved to California.

2:13:20

They didn't it didn't feel like me, you know, and I really found sort of my

2:13:26

calling, I guess, when I started watching those women.

2:13:31

And I loved Sarah Michelle Gellar and I loved Lucy Lawless and I loved Linda

2:13:38

Hamilton and Carrie Fisher and like a lot of these women that were just really,

2:13:45

really great characters.

2:13:47

And they were written as great characters and Starbuck was and if you talk to

2:13:51

Ron more about it, the reason why he made Starbuck and Boomer women, he didn't

2:13:57

think about it.

2:13:57

He just said, OK, we've got these are the characters from the original.

2:14:01

These are the characters we're going to put in my version.

2:14:03

Women are in the military.

2:14:05

Women do exist in combat roles now and we are making this for, you know, the

2:14:10

early aughts.

2:14:11

We have to be representative of what the military looks like.

2:14:14

We need to make a couple of these characters fit women.

2:14:17

And he just said this one and this one.

2:14:18

He didn't give it any thought, you know.

2:14:20

And so I think part of the reason why they were so great, the characters were

2:14:27

so great, was that they were just great characters.

2:14:33

Right.

2:14:33

The writing was so great.

2:14:35

There was never a time where they were like, she's the best female pilot around.

2:14:42

Right.

2:14:43

You know, it was just.

2:14:44

Like Linda Hamilton in Terminator.

2:14:45

It's like, she's just a great, it's just a great character.

2:14:48

She's just a great character.

2:14:48

And with a motivation that we all can identify with.

2:14:53

So it's, it's, and that's why she was such a great character.

2:14:58

And, you know, she opened so many doors for me and because then people started

2:15:02

to believe that I was tough.

2:15:04

And how many girls started doing chin-ups after they saw Linda Hamilton do them

2:15:07

in the Terminator?

2:15:08

Please.

2:15:09

And it's, chin-ups are fucking hard.

2:15:12

I know, she's jacked.

2:15:13

She's jacked.

2:15:13

She got so fit for that movie?

2:15:15

I did a Spartan race with my husband because my, on my podcast channel, I was,

2:15:20

you know, during COVID and then like before COVID, we were, I was creating

2:15:24

content of sort of like Katie did sort of stuff.

2:15:26

Like, I'd love to do this.

2:15:27

Let's film it and see what it's like.

2:15:29

So we signed up for a Spartan race and then recorded the whole thing.

2:15:32

And, and my husband not only ran his race, but then ran my race too, like

2:15:35

recording the whole thing.

2:15:37

Um, that's the hardest thing I've ever done.

2:15:39

Like getting in shape for that thing.

2:15:41

I got in shape for six months before that was hard and getting to a point where

2:15:46

I actually could do chin-ups and then also pull-ups too.

2:15:49

I was like, wow, I'm strong.

2:15:51

I felt so strong at one point.

2:15:53

So I get to the actual race and I'd been training with such heavy shit that I

2:15:56

got to the medicine ball where you have to pick it up, carry it and throw it

2:15:59

and then pick it up and carry it and throw it.

2:16:01

And it was so light for me.

2:16:03

And I was prepared for it to be like so heavy.

2:16:05

I got to it and I picked it up and then like I threw it and it kept going.

2:16:10

And I had to slow down because I had to go get the ball and bring it back to

2:16:12

where it was supposed to be.

2:16:14

I had gotten almost too strong.

2:16:15

Oh, that's hilarious.

2:16:17

It was really awesome.

2:16:17

It was so fun.

2:16:18

It's nice to know that you can get strong though.

2:16:21

Like that feeling is a nice feeling.

2:16:23

I wish everybody felt that.

2:16:24

Yeah.

2:16:24

Get physically better.

2:16:27

You'll feel better.

2:16:28

But I had fun doing it.

2:16:29

You know what I mean?

2:16:30

And I also set myself a goal.

2:16:32

I think that's really important too.

2:16:33

Like for some people that it's daunting is setting a goal and the goal doesn't

2:16:38

need to be winning.

2:16:39

The goal just needs to be finishing.

2:16:42

Why do you think it is that like sci-fi in particular embraced these like

2:16:46

gangster women characters?

2:16:50

So my opinion on this is that I feel like because science fiction doesn't exist

2:16:58

because you're existing in these make-believe worlds that strong women were not

2:17:04

intimidating in sci-fi.

2:17:07

Because we could be dismissed as not.

2:17:09

But that wouldn't happen in real life.

2:17:10

Interesting.

2:17:11

So that's...

2:17:13

Interesting.

2:17:13

So men could then watch these roles.

2:17:16

Right.

2:17:16

And not be threatened.

2:17:17

Mm-hmm.

2:17:17

That's my opinion.

2:17:18

I bet.

2:17:19

I bet you're right.

2:17:20

Yeah.

2:17:21

I bet that's the only thing that makes sense now that I'm thinking about it.

2:17:24

Yeah.

2:17:24

I think so.

2:17:25

Because like there's no female John Wick.

2:17:29

No.

2:17:30

You know?

2:17:31

No.

2:17:31

Well, there is that one.

2:17:32

Ballerina?

2:17:33

No, that one.

2:17:34

The Emily one.

2:17:35

The one that Kevin James was in.

2:17:38

It's a crazy movie about this young girl who just kills all these bad guys.

2:17:45

I have no idea.

2:17:45

I love Kevin.

2:17:46

It's kind of like tongue-in-cheek.

2:17:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:17:49

But it's hyper-violent.

2:17:50

It's crazy.

2:17:51

That's what it's called, right?

2:17:52

Emily?

2:17:52

I think there's two of them.

2:17:55

There was one where they killed her dad and they killed her family and so she

2:18:00

killed everybody.

2:18:01

And then she came back.

2:18:02

And then the second one she came back and killed more people.

2:18:05

It's like a young, cute girl who just knows how to kill everybody.

2:18:10

I mean, look, it's kind of fun.

2:18:11

It's kind of fun.

2:18:12

It's a funny movie.

2:18:13

When I went through...

2:18:15

What is it, Jamie?

2:18:16

Not Megan?

2:18:18

Whatever Kevin James was in.

2:18:19

It was about a young girl who kills everybody.

2:18:21

Kevin James?

2:18:22

Yeah.

2:18:23

Kevin James was a bad guy.

2:18:24

He played a white supremacist.

2:18:27

That movie's called Becky.

2:18:28

Becky.

2:18:28

That's it.

2:18:29

Becky.

2:18:29

Becky.

2:18:30

Yeah.

2:18:30

Isn't there...

2:18:31

There's a second one, though, right?

2:18:33

Well, there's a movie called Emily and there's a...

2:18:35

No, what was the...

2:18:35

Kevin James.

2:18:36

No, it is Becky.

2:18:37

You're right.

2:18:37

But there was a movie before Becky, I believe.

2:18:40

72% on Rotten Tomatoes.

2:18:42

Oh, it's fun.

2:18:43

The Wrath of Becky also came out.

2:18:45

That's right.

2:18:45

I just saw Ballerina.

2:18:47

That's it.

2:18:47

I actually thought that was really good.

2:18:48

I think that's the first one, right?

2:18:49

No, this is the second one.

2:18:50

That's the second one.

2:18:51

This is the first one.

2:18:52

I thought there was a prelude to...

2:18:55

Either way.

2:18:55

Yeah.

2:18:56

Fun-ass movie.

2:18:57

Oh, Joel McHale's in it.

2:18:58

Yeah.

2:18:58

Yeah, he's great.

2:18:59

Fun.

2:19:00

It's a fun-ass movie.

2:19:01

But it's like, that's the female John Wick.

2:19:03

It's a little girl.

2:19:04

Well, I think everybody's trying to create these, like, strong female

2:19:07

characters now.

2:19:08

And I think that one of the biggest problems with a lot of them is that they're

2:19:14

not focusing

2:19:15

on the character to begin with, like we talked about.

2:19:18

Like, write a strong character.

2:19:19

Right.

2:19:20

And then just make her a woman.

2:19:21

Right.

2:19:22

You know, like...

2:19:23

Don't write a strong character that you have to have a woman.

2:19:26

Right.

2:19:26

Don't...

2:19:27

I think that's part of it because they're all trying to create...

2:19:30

There's so many of them now, right?

2:19:32

And I love to see them and I love to give them chances.

2:19:35

But a lot of times the...

2:19:38

I want to also see somebody that's believable in the role as well, right?

2:19:43

Like, one of the funnest...

2:19:45

The things that I love to do is transform my body depending on what character I'm

2:19:49

playing.

2:19:50

Within reason.

2:19:52

There's only so much I can do or that I want to do.

2:19:54

But, you know, for my show, Another Life, my character wakes up from cryo.

2:19:58

I wanted her to look, like, dehydrated and sinewy and, like, really, really,

2:20:04

really lean.

2:20:05

Like, almost unhealthy lean.

2:20:07

And I got myself down to such a low body fat.

2:20:10

It was crazy.

2:20:11

What did you eat to get down like that?

2:20:13

14.50 a day.

2:20:16

15.50 a day.

2:20:19

Something around that time when I was cutting.

2:20:23

But I packed on muscle and then cut, like, really hard for, like, three weeks

2:20:27

before.

2:20:28

And I was eating a lot of protein.

2:20:31

And I got myself so low that my menstruation stopped.

2:20:38

And I was like, oh, this is too low.

2:20:40

This is really low.

2:20:41

That happens with a lot of marathon runners.

2:20:43

It does.

2:20:43

Yeah, it was quite low.

2:20:45

But I got to where I wanted to be.

2:20:47

I looked the way I wanted to look.

2:20:49

And then I naturally put on, you know, a healthy amount of weight as the series

2:20:53

went on, which is what I wanted to do anyway.

2:20:55

But so I want to see not someone do something detrimental to their health

2:20:59

necessarily.

2:21:01

But I do want to I want to see the muscle.

2:21:03

I want to see the capability in a character that's kicking ass.

2:21:06

You know.

2:21:06

Right.

2:21:06

You want it to be believable.

2:21:08

Yeah.

2:21:08

Right.

2:21:08

Yeah.

2:21:09

Like when they all got in insane shape for that movie 300.

2:21:14

Oh, my God.

2:21:16

It's like that would be, like, the best job in the world for me.

2:21:21

If they're like, we're going to give you tons of time and tons of money to just

2:21:25

get in the best shape of your life.

2:21:27

Here's some trainers.

2:21:28

We got, like, six months.

2:21:29

Let's do it.

2:21:30

There was a lot of people that thought that they used AI for that.

2:21:33

They used some AI for sure because that was a crazy movie.

2:21:36

For 300?

2:21:36

Yeah.

2:21:37

While they used.

2:21:38

300 had a lot of AI because it was.

2:21:40

Yeah.

2:21:41

Yeah, I don't know.

2:21:41

Excuse me.

2:21:42

I should say not AI.

2:21:43

I should say CGI.

2:21:44

It had CGI for sure.

2:21:45

That's what I should say.

2:21:46

Yeah.

2:21:46

Because obviously the giant Persian king was not really that big.

2:21:50

There was a lot of, like, fantasy elements of that.

2:21:54

Right.

2:21:54

But I think they really did get an insane shape.

2:21:58

And a lot of people, like, dismissed that and said that's CGI.

2:22:01

But there's videos of those guys working out, like, getting ready.

2:22:04

Yeah, look at these guys just going crazy, getting ready to film this movie.

2:22:08

I mean, they trained, like, animals.

2:22:10

Mm-hmm.

2:22:11

So you can see them all working out.

2:22:16

So they really did just develop incredible bodies, which the nutty thing is

2:22:21

anybody can do.

2:22:22

You just have to do it.

2:22:24

Do what they did.

2:22:25

You'll get a lot better.

2:22:26

It's a lot of hard work, though.

2:22:27

It's not that easy.

2:22:28

Yes, it's on paper is easy.

2:22:31

But, like, being a mom of two kids, though.

2:22:33

Oh, yeah.

2:22:34

And having a job, in the last two years, I'm hard-pressed to find time to work

2:22:41

out.

2:22:42

And I wake up at 5 o'clock in the morning, so I'm awake before my kids.

2:22:46

And, you know, I choose during that time to, you know, meditate, write in my

2:22:51

journal, breathe, take time to myself, and then they wake up.

2:22:55

I haven't quite figured out how to fit in my workouts.

2:22:58

Well, that's an obligation that's very different, right?

2:23:01

You're a mother, you know, and that you're doing the absolute right thing.

2:23:05

You're dedicating all your time to being a mom when you're there.

2:23:07

Like, that's just how it is.

2:23:09

But for, you know, for the amount of hours that are in a day, it would be nice

2:23:16

if you could just get a little time to yourself.

2:23:20

As they get older, you'll have more time to yourself, and then you'll be able

2:23:24

to get back on track.

2:23:25

But for people that have the time and don't do it, that's the wasted potential

2:23:31

of your resources.

2:23:33

Like, you don't have to do a lot.

2:23:35

Just do some body squats and do some push-ups.

2:23:38

And you don't need a lot of equipment either.

2:23:40

I think that's the thing.

2:23:41

I think that we've made physical fitness in some way, because it's an industry,

2:23:45

I think we've made it daunting for a lot of people.

2:23:48

And, you know, I think that if you just focus on the things, the tried and true.

2:23:53

Like, you can do that stuff in your house without weights or with things that

2:23:56

are heavy in your house.

2:23:58

You know, you can actually make progress.

2:23:59

Sure, and if you don't know anybody to teach you how to do stuff, all you have

2:24:02

to do is go on YouTube.

2:24:03

Just go on YouTube and look up beginner bodyweight workout.

2:24:07

I'm sure there's a bunch of them out there.

2:24:09

Yeah.

2:24:09

And you can do stuff with no physical fitness equipment.

2:24:12

Just do push-ups and sit-ups and bodyweight squats.

2:24:14

And you can get a great workout in that way.

2:24:16

It's true.

2:24:17

And nobody has to watch you.

2:24:18

You don't have to feel self-conscious.

2:24:20

Just you and your phone.

2:24:21

Shit, you can go to my YouTube channel, because during COVID, I was doing my

2:24:24

workouts, and I said to my husband, I was like, might as well record this shit

2:24:28

and put it out there.

2:24:29

So, yeah, and all of them are fun and interesting and easy, and people still

2:24:33

come up to me, and they're like, I lost, you know, a man came up to me at a

2:24:36

convention the other day.

2:24:38

He said he lost over 80 pounds doing the workouts that I put and signed up for

2:24:42

a Spartan race.

2:24:43

And I was like, that's awesome.

2:24:45

I love that.

2:24:46

That's so cool.

2:24:47

That's very cool.

2:24:48

See, that's a great thing.

2:24:49

They're your fans.

2:24:51

They see you working.

2:24:51

I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to work out with her.

2:24:53

Yeah.

2:24:53

And everybody works out together.

2:24:54

Great.

2:24:55

Yeah.

2:24:55

See, that's the great use of the internet.

2:24:57

Yes.

2:24:58

The internet has a lot of great uses.

2:24:59

You can learn anything on the internet.

2:25:01

You can learn anything.

2:25:02

You can find out stuff, how to make things and fix things and get information

2:25:07

about something you never thought you were interested in.

2:25:10

Like, look, you never thought that praying mantises were so scary.

2:25:13

And now I know.

2:25:13

But you know what I'm doing?

2:25:15

What?

2:25:15

I'm now already in my head trying to write a children's book about praying mantises.

2:25:20

Oh, you are?

2:25:21

I am.

2:25:21

It's like, that's my ADHD.

2:25:23

Like, I'm already.

2:25:24

Oh, you started once you saw that?

2:25:25

Once I did.

2:25:26

Oh, that's hilarious.

2:25:27

Yeah.

2:25:27

Well, I want a copy of that book.

2:25:29

It'll probably be cool.

2:25:30

It's going to be a pop-up book.

2:25:33

They're scary.

2:25:33

So every time you move it, the praying mantises is like, poof, poof.

2:25:36

We just, for some reason, miss them when we're describing the most ruthless

2:25:41

animals on earth.

2:25:43

We miss the praying mantis because they might be the gangster of gangsters.

2:25:46

I think they might be.

2:25:47

Do they ever attack together?

2:25:48

Do they work in coordination?

2:25:49

That's a good question.

2:25:51

If they did, they'd be unstoppable.

2:25:52

Because that would be.

2:25:53

That's Starship Troopers.

2:25:54

That would be like if a bunch of women cycled their periods.

2:25:57

We could take over the world.

2:25:59

Right.

2:25:59

Especially with those headsets.

2:26:01

Get those Google headsets on.

2:26:01

We could really.

2:26:02

Because then we just talk to each other.

2:26:03

Like, shit would be.

2:26:06

That would be on fire.

2:26:08

Like, it would be on fire.

2:26:09

Yeah.

2:26:09

We'd like, you know, take over some crazy shit.

2:26:11

For sure.

2:26:12

That would be awesome.

2:26:13

That would be awesome.

2:26:14

Well, maybe that's a good use of technology.

2:26:16

I know you're anti-AI.

2:26:17

Maybe for that.

2:26:18

I am anti-AI because I am in self-preservation mode here.

2:26:22

I get it.

2:26:22

I am desperate to be like, I matter, damn it.

2:26:26

And not just to my family.

2:26:33

Right.

2:26:34

You know?

2:26:34

I know.

2:26:35

I think we're all going to be like that soon.

2:26:37

I don't know.

2:26:38

I don't think so.

2:26:39

I think it'll.

2:26:40

We'll always find a place.

2:26:42

You just have to be malleable.

2:26:43

And you have to figure out where to, you know.

2:26:48

I don't know.

2:26:48

Adjust.

2:26:49

Pivot.

2:26:49

Yeah.

2:26:50

There's going to be some pivoting.

2:26:52

For sure.

2:26:52

A lot of pivoting.

2:26:54

How often do you do your podcast?

2:26:55

So, my podcast is once a week, every Tuesday.

2:26:58

What's it called?

2:26:59

It's called The Sack Off Show.

2:27:01

Okay.

2:27:02

It was called Blah Blah Blah, but people couldn't find it.

2:27:05

Oh, that's funny.

2:27:06

So, we just changed it to The Sack Off Show.

2:27:08

And we're actually, like I said, doing, in the new year, a Battlestar Galactica

2:27:14

rewatch as well.

2:27:15

Because I've, like I said, I've never seen it.

2:27:17

So, I'm curious.

2:27:18

It's kind of crazy that you've never seen it.

2:27:19

The Sack Off Show sounds funny, too.

2:27:21

It's like, it's your last name, but it's also, it's like, it's like a fun name

2:27:25

for a show.

2:27:26

Well, we'll see.

2:27:27

It's got a good rhyme to it.

2:27:28

It is fun.

2:27:29

I have a lot of fun.

2:27:30

I'm just trying to be, like, you know, a tenth as good at it as you are, Joe.

2:27:35

Oh, sweet.

2:27:36

Well, you're very good at this.

2:27:37

Thank you.

2:27:37

There's a reason why you're the best at it.

2:27:39

You've been doing it a long time.

2:27:40

And, you know, you worked your ass off.

2:27:43

Well, I'll just tell you what I did.

2:27:45

I just talked to people that I'm interested in.

2:27:47

That's it.

2:27:48

That's all you have to do.

2:27:49

I do that.

2:27:50

It's really hard to find the right audience in an oversaturated market.

2:27:57

Yeah.

2:27:58

But it's happening.

2:27:58

It is oversaturated.

2:28:00

It is.

2:28:01

But it doesn't mean it's inaccessible.

2:28:03

If you're remarkable, you could pop through.

2:28:06

And sometimes maybe it just takes coming on here and then people will hear

2:28:09

about it and go watch it.

2:28:10

And I'll be like, who's Katie Sackham?

2:28:12

She's that chick from Battlestar Galactica?

2:28:14

Who's that?

2:28:14

Who's that?

2:28:16

But you seem like you'd be an awesome podcaster.

2:28:18

I have fun.

2:28:19

I love talking to people.

2:28:21

And it literally helped me figure out that I was ADHD because I couldn't not

2:28:28

talk on top of people.

2:28:30

I was like, I listened.

2:28:31

I listened.

2:28:31

I did.

2:28:33

My first interview was Bryce Dallas Howard.

2:28:35

God love her.

2:28:37

And I listened to it back in the car with my husband and I was like, oh, my God,

2:28:44

I don't stop talking.

2:28:46

Do you wear headsets?

2:28:48

I do.

2:28:50

You do?

2:28:50

I do.

2:28:51

That helps a lot because you hear the talk, the over-talking, which we all tend

2:28:55

to do sometimes accidentally because sometimes you don't know when to come in.

2:28:58

But it's a learned skill.

2:29:03

It's a learned skill like everything else.

2:29:05

It's like everything else.

2:29:07

And you have to learn different people.

2:29:09

Learn the dance of different people.

2:29:11

Some people have just a different thing.

2:29:12

And always, in my mind, my number one goal is to try to get the most out of

2:29:19

them.

2:29:20

Like get them to have the most fun.

2:29:22

The most – get the questions that stir their interest the most.

2:29:26

Like something – I want to know who you are.

2:29:28

Like for real, for real.

2:29:29

Like I want to help you be the best version of you that you can when you're

2:29:34

doing it.

2:29:34

That's sort of my thing as well.

2:29:36

Like I wanted to – you know, one of the things that came out of COVID for me

2:29:40

was that – and I don't know about you, but I had weekly conversations with

2:29:43

girlfriends I hadn't talked to in years.

2:29:45

And we would like every Tuesday at 4 o'clock, we'd have a drink and connect

2:29:49

again.

2:29:50

And the conversations were wonderful because we had the time to have them again.

2:29:54

And then I started going back to conventions.

2:29:57

And in the green room, I was having these wonderful conversations with people.

2:30:01

And I was like, God, I wish I could record these.

2:30:03

Because they're really authentic.

2:30:05

And you're getting to see people in a very different light.

2:30:09

And they're really opening up because it's not like a gotcha podcast.

2:30:13

Like, you know, if you want to cut something out, you can cut something out.

2:30:16

Like, I'm not here to, like, ruin your career, you know.

2:30:19

Right, right.

2:30:20

And the conversations are really interesting.

2:30:27

And people are talking about things that they've never spoken about.

2:30:30

And it's just really fun.

2:30:31

So I've really enjoyed it.

2:30:32

Well, don't you think, like, your learning in the process as well is not, like,

2:30:37

one of the more fun parts of it?

2:30:38

The more you get to talk to interesting people, the more you learn, the more

2:30:42

you understand how other people think and how they feel about stuff.

2:30:46

Yeah.

2:30:46

And it inspires the shit out of me.

2:30:48

Yeah, me too.

2:30:48

You know, like, if I have, like, a month where I'm not hustling and someone

2:30:52

comes on the podcast and they're like, I got six things in production.

2:30:55

I'm doing this.

2:30:56

I wrote an album.

2:30:56

I got a book coming out.

2:30:58

Man, I got six kids.

2:30:59

I'm like, fuck.

2:31:00

There's a balance to be had, though, isn't there?

2:31:04

Oh, of course there is.

2:31:05

Of course there is.

2:31:06

And I think that I've found the right balance.

2:31:08

I have the right partner that's, like, super supportive and we're a real good

2:31:11

team.

2:31:12

And, yeah, it's just, it's, I've got, I think I've got the right balance.

2:31:18

But there's always going to be hustle in me.

2:31:19

Of course.

2:31:20

You seem like you're well-balanced, though.

2:31:22

That's, it's a good thing to see.

2:31:23

I try.

2:31:23

You should ask my husband.

2:31:24

He'll be like, that bitch is crazy.

2:31:26

What?

2:31:26

I'm just going to go on my instincts.

2:31:28

I don't want to hear any contrary data.

2:31:30

Well, thank you very much for being here.

2:31:33

This was a lot of fun.

2:31:33

I really enjoyed it.

2:31:34

Oh, thank you for having me.

2:31:34

And I was a huge fan of you on the show, so.

2:31:36

Thank you.

2:31:37

It's cool to meet you.

2:31:37

Well, more things to come, I promise.

2:31:39

I've got some really cool jobs in the can that are going to be me kicking ass

2:31:44

again.

2:31:45

Let's do it again sometime.

2:31:45

I'd love to have you in here again.

2:31:47

I would love that.

2:31:47

You'll have to come on my podcast.

2:31:49

I will do it.

2:31:49

I'll do it.

2:31:49

Bye, everybody.

2:31:51

Bye.