#2114 - Zack Snyder

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Zack Snyder

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Zack Snyder is a filmmaker, producer, and screenwriter known for films like "Justice League," "300," and "Army of the Dead." His latest film, "Rebel Moon - Part One: A Child of Fire," is now available on Netflix. Catch the sequel, "Rebel Moon - Part Two: The Scargiver," on Netflix April 19, 2024.www.netflix.com/tudum/videos/rebel-moon-the-scargiver-teaserwww.cruelfilms.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're up. What's going on man. How are you? I'm good and welcome aboard. Thank you for being here. No, thanks for having me. My pleasure. You made two of my all-time favorite movies. The Watchmen, I fucking love, 300. Okay, awesome. I have a top 20 list. I've never formally put together a top 20 list, but those are right there. That's cool. Well, first of all, I appreciate that, because 300 was a complete labor of love and insane. Like 300 was, I was a Frank Miller fan for a long time, right? And I thought the, I thought I would do another, I thought I would do Dark Knight Returns, frankly, that was the movie I wanted. I still want to do it. I always tell everyone like, Dark Knight Returns. If I get to Dark Knight Returns, I'd be done with comic book movies. Really? Well, because like, if you've done Watchmen, oh, sorry, I'm banging the mic. If you do watchmen and dark night returns, like for me, your legacy is set. So like Batman vs. Superman literally steals a lot of dark night returns. I'm not gonna say it didn't, it did, but it's still not dark night returns. So I think that's still out there. But I always, you know, for a long time, I had that, I had 300 on my coffee table at my house when I was making TV commercials, and I'd have my friends over. I'd be like, I'm gonna make this one day. It's gonna look exactly like this comic book. And they'd be like, yeah, yeah, sure it is. And I was having a general meeting with Gianni Nernari who was And yeah, I was having a general meeting with Gianni Nernari, who was one of the producers, and he was asking me about what I like. And he had that graphic novel in his office, like on his table, and I went, well, okay, you know what? If I could do anything, that book right there, I would make that, and he goes, [2:00] well, what do you mean? How would you make it? And I literally just opened it up and I go, we'd film this. We'd film these pictures. It would look like this. And he goes, okay, that's cool. Like, so you're saying you would just shoot the movie and it would look like this graphic novel. I go, that's what I'm saying. And I think, and that's what, but at the time, we couldn't sell it. We tried to, I literally, we went to all the studios. You know, they were all kind of, kind of like, yeah, sword and sandals. Wasn't it the same time that Troy was being made? It was exactly the same time as Troy. And when we went to Warner Brothers originally with it, they literally were like, we have Troy. So why would we want this? We have Brad Pitt. Like literally Brad Pitt is in our movie. What are you? I go, we're gonna do something crazy. We're not even gonna shoot it outside. And they were like, okay, you're nuts. And I go, yeah, we're not gonna go for one shot outside. [3:01] We ended up going for one shot outside for this, when the Persian messengers are coming that super high-speed shot where the horses are kind of coming over the hill. We shot that outside because we just couldn't get the horses going fast enough in the it's the shot right before this I think. Oh no it's this one that's it. It's that shot. So that shot was the the horses that was a high-speed shot we did with photosonic outside outside, but that was it. That's like the only shot outside. Everything else is on the horse. It's too much to run fast. Because it could've been the horse's passive inside, yeah. And it was too expensive. That was a low-budget movie, you know, we couldn't get it. 300 was a low-budget movie. Yeah, because we, I mean, we we shot this in the 60 days. 60 days. Wow. That's insane. We almost killed us, but it was fun. But yeah, so when we took it to Warner Brothers, they were like, finally, well, what happened [4:00] was I did Don of the Dead and then from Don of the Dead, I was supposed to do I am legend. Right? And I am legend was this movie that was at Warner Brothers that they were like, what do you think? And then for some, there was some kind of crazy mix up and they ended up giving that movie to someone else. And then I think they felt bad or whatever and they said, well, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I really still want to do 300. And so we shot that test shot. I think it's on the DVD. There's a test shot we did and they said, OK, if you can make the movie look like that, go do it. Was that one of the first movies that was ever shot in front of a green screen? Basically, most of the movies except that one scene. Sorry. Yeah, I don't think it was like, look, green screen photography was like a well-known way to make a movie, visual effects on all that. All movie? Yeah, I don't know about a whole movie. That was weird. I always say like they go like, well, what innovations? And I always go like, it's basically the same technology that the weatherman uses. You know, when he stands in front of the green screen and says, like, oh, the front's coming in from the north. [5:06] You know, it's literally, yeah, it's literally the same, it's literally the same technology, you know, as a, as a, because look, that could easily, you could put like the weather behind that guy right there and do the same. That's, well, that's Eli, that's my son. Oh, wow. He's now making movies. He was the second unit director on Rebel Moon. Oh, that's so cool. He also plays the young Rorschach in... Watchmen? In Walshack? Yeah, the baby Rorschach, yeah. Cause like, you put your kid in the movie and I always was like, oh, let's have Eli do that. Cause it's easier, you know, like he has to like beat the other kid up. I just Eli's better, because I don't have to talk to like some other, because actually there's a scene in Watchroom you know where he bites the kid's face. And he pulls the flesh off the face. And I go, you know what? Let's just get to eat to do it, because then I could just be like, okay, eat bite this. Now pull it, like rip it off. The only problem in part of that is that that there was a scene that we did in that movie [6:05] where the, you know, because Rorschach's mom was a prostitute, right? So there's that scene where Rorschach's mom in the flashbacks, like, I should have had that abortion, right, and she slaps him in the face, right, because he hears mom is he hurting you, like, because she's having sex with some John in there, and then she opens the door and she's like, you know, he's like, you see, he heard of you. I should have had that abortion slapped him. And I had wanted the mother to be topless in that scene. And they were like, nah, like, you can't have. And it's cool because his mother was visiting set that day and his mom was there and she was like, oh, you're putting our son in a movie. We weren't together at the time, his mom and I, but we're really close friends. But I think she was an actress and I said, and they went the only way that the woman could be topless is if it was actually his mom. And I was like, oh, I go to Nice. [7:02] And she was like, no chance. Imagine asking your ex wife to play a terrible prostitute who slaps their sons as I wish I had an abortion holy shit. I go, come on, it's for the drama. It's not like, oh my God. And she was like, you were insane. And I was like, come on, it would have been awesome. It's at least slightly insane. But that would be the only way to do it. Yeah. Could you see? Yeah. A loophole. Yeah. That's cool. At the time, probably now I think we could. Now I think we could have. Yeah. I think we could have. If I wanted to do it now, I think that's how you would do it. You do it like with like some sort of chest rig and they would paint them out and then we read you the boobs. That'd be that's a good idea actually How much go back in how much of any CGI was used on their bodies in 300? Zero CGI in the body real really is it we didn't have the money on a so many people talk so much shit I swear to God I'm like, you know you know you get you need Mark Twight on this show and then Mark will tell you [8:02] You know mark it Mark trained the guys, Mark's like this amazing. He's like, I've known Mark for years and he's an incredible Alpine climber. He's like this, he's just like this insane, he can shoot, he can fucking, he can do anything that anyone can do. And like when I asked him to train the guys, he's like, this sounds like Hollywood bullshit. Like train actors for a movie, like they're all fakers, they're all liars. And I'm like, look, you will make them honest. And so he's like, all right. So he started training everybody. Yeah, there's Mark right there. And his gym was called Gym Jones, right? Like just as an example of how hard he is. But yeah, and so like, you know, he had trained all these seals and, you know, basically, it was basically the same thing that he was doing with the seals he did with these actors. And you can... So a prerequisite had to be known. You can imagine it had to be in some form of shape. Yet it had to be in some shape. Yeah. [9:00] Some teeny bit of shape. A couple of guys came to us that were, you know, pure actors, but 90%, you know, had some, had some shape. How much time did you have to work with them? I'm trying to remember, normally what I like is at least five weeks, I like five weeks, and I'll take more if you'll give it to me. Sure for a film, but I mean for a pair physically. Yeah, I'm talking about before the film starts. At two months or three months, I like before the film starts of the training. That's enough time to get them into that kind of 300 shape. It never is. These guys trained at W's Hard and they knew a lot of them were athletes anyway, so they came in with like, and Jerry had had more time and Jerry trained with his own guy Jerry didn't train with Mark but like yeah so you know it depends like you know Henry Cavill Mark trained Henry for Superman and that was a real that was [10:04] longer I think that was three months or four months. But yeah, it's never enough time because you just can't get it. And then on actors, they just, ideally, you'd have a half a year, six months would be perfect, really. At least. Yeah, I mean, just to get you know visibly you know I always say the one thing is like I always say the one thing about movies is that and the thing about Mark that I love was that he he went to psychological war with the actors in the best possible way. You know like he what he was looking for he would always I'm going to put you in your pain cave and you're going to find out a lot about yourself when you're in there, right? And then when you come out of the workout, you know, you're going to, you're going to grow, you know, I'm going to grow you here. And some people, some people just don't, they don't like that, you know, especially people who have been like, you know, fitness isn't like a lifestyle that they've chosen, you know? [11:07] No, that's a journey that you have to be really dedicated to go down. If you're just a kind of a casual and someone comes along and says, I want to put you in the pain cave, you're like, I'm not interested. I think it works with actors because he makes it part of the crucible of the performance. And I think if you can connect it to the performance, it makes the training mean something. I've always been like a sort of bodybuilding fan like in the 80s. I trained with this guy in the 80s, who was just like a teacher that lived, this guy Jim Martin lived in Grandage Connecticut where I grew up. He was a teacher at this school called Grandsh Country Day, which was near the boarding school that I went to. And I was like, you know, everyone expected me to be like, I played soccer. I was like an athlete. I was like, really? But then I sort of got into like weight training. I was like, that's what I wanted to do. Everyone thought I was insane. But like, you know, and I think it was, [12:05] it was my meeting gym and gym being like, because gym had this in the basement of Greenwich Country Day. There was like this weirdo gym and like, you know, Chris Dickerson and like, you know, my cats, all these like crazy, 80s bodybuilders would show up and train with them and it was like this weird, I'd be like this awesome. And like we went to the Olympia, like he took us to the Olympia in New York City out of what year was that, like 82 or three, I forget what year. But anyway, it was just really cool. And I was just in this, and then of course, I was like, you know, Schwarzenegger, I read his like book,'ll be a bodybuilder one day. That'd be cool, like, you know, but of course, like I was also painting and I remember when I, when I was a senior in high school, after I graduated, I went to London for a year, to art school, to paint. And I lost like 40 pounds of muscle in that year. Just like literally, I was in the best shape of my life, [13:05] went to England to be a painter, and literally just ate baked beans on toast for a year, and starved to death. But I was like, this is amazing. I'm an artist, but it was definitely put at, put at, but I always had that aesthetic bug in my head. And now I have, my trainer now is this guy, Alessandro. He trained everyone for Rebel Moon. And he's like this, he's like six, in his early 60s, Italian, was a bodybuilder, was a power lifter, became a bodybuilder. And he's like, you know, he's just like this. He's a hard Italian, no bullshit. Like, you know, it was cool because during the, during the train for Rubble Moon, one of the actors was like, I have an idea for a workout. Do you want to hear it? He's like, I have an idea for a movie. Stay in your lane. Exactly. He's like, or like the guys at the gym, like, because you know, you used to like judge bodybuilding competitions and, you know, it has his pro card and everything was like a real bodybuilder. And they'd say like, hey, can you come and look at me? [14:07] You know, I have a contest coming up in the bathroom. And they'd go in there and the guy'd take a shirt off and he'd be like, how long till the competition? I'd be like, I got two months till the competition. And I was hard to be like, I think next year for you is gonna be better. You know, it's like, oh, you know, and he has no problem saying, you know, like I think I need to lose like 40 pounds more like 80. Jesus. He's like, he's hard, but he's awesome. He's like, no bullshit, like he's holy. I think he's, and like, you know, he trained the guys for all of the moon and he's like a puresthetic trainer, like puresthetic. You know, he's just going for a look. He's seen everything, you know, and he just like, okay, you know, your abs could be sharper, you know? Yeah, that's a weird thing. Yeah, it's like a whole thing, you know, it's like just like. It is a whole thing, yeah. I had Ronnie Coleman on. Oh yeah, exactly. You know, Ronnie Coleman at one point in time was the freak of all freaks. Yeah, like just like the way his muscles attach is like crazy, like you can't. [15:06] Well, he was probably one of the strongest bodybuilders ever. Unbelievable. And that's part of the reason why he looked the way he looked. He didn't look just big. He looked super powerful. Well, that's how the thing about Ronny Coleman, like you see like guys that are just incredibly swole where they can't, like they're muscle bound, like they can. And he could like always just like, he could just like touch his back of his head. Just him back, humble, humble. Look at that picture. That's so insane. Yeah, Al-Sandro was in a competition with him, Knight of the Champions, I think in San Francisco, and he said like, he goes, I come from Italy. I like, I'm in my first competition. I like pull a card and I'm like, realize I'm next to, Ronnie Coleman and me. I'm like, he's like, great. This is fucking perfect. And he goes like, the guy, you know like how bodybuilders, like the whole thing is about your skin being super thin. So everything like shows. He goes, and he goes, I saw him backstage and I thought, you know what, the skin's not there. It's not gonna happen. [16:06] He goes, but then he's like, so much muscle, he's like, pulls and he's just like, he's like, oh my god, like where? How is it possible that the skin just can't, the muscle's so thick, just like pushes, all the- The stretch is all the way up. You see all the striations and everything, He's still. He's still. He's still. With him just relaxing, like backstage, he thought, ah, I'm more ripped in him, but then he's like, no way. It's such a weird sport, because they're literally on desk door. Oh, literally. They dehydrate themselves to the point where they have kidney failure almost. Yeah, yeah. The only thing that's happening like with longevity and like all this, like the bodybuilders will do stuff to their bodies that nobody else would dare do. They'll do dosages that no one will do. And so it's cool to say like, okay, if you wanna know what quadruple the dose of anything does, [17:03] just ask those guys, I'll tell you, because I think you'd be like, okay, this is the most you could take, and then it's toxic. Oh cool, I'll take triple that and see what happens, because they're all searching for the magic bullet. It's kind of amazing how few of them have died. Well, and also they do die all the time, so it's not. They do die, but it's not like you would expect because you think every single one of them, like how can you be? How can you be? Yeah, and how can you have been on the edge of it for so long? Yeah, how could you, but yeah, well, body is incredible. That's what you learned. He's really suffered, unfortunately, Ronnie, but I think he suffered from surgery. Yeah. I think the surgery got him. You know, get back surgery and back then stem cells were available and people weren't aware that there's other ways to fix your back. The doctors just want to go in there and start fusing discs and scares the shit out of me. Everybody that I know that's had that done, it's had real problems afterwards. It puts extra pressure on the above and below discs as well because it's an unnatural [18:01] sort of unit now instead of having three pieces you now have one. It's here. It's crazy. It can be a real natural sort of unit now instead of having three pieces, you know, have one. Sure. You know, it's crazy. It can be a real problem. It can be a real problem. Yeah, and I think that healing, the science behind healing is, you know, it's changing so much. Leaps and bounds. Leaps and bounds, and I think that that, really that's where the future is for. In my opinion, like, how we learn to heal is really how we learn to like really stay, you know, active and like, getting stuff done for longer because like recovery is the whole thing, you know. Of 100%. Recovery is, and also being cognizant of what your little issues are and not letting them get chronic. When I was young, I was just too much of a meathead. Ignore, ignore, ignore, work through pain. And also, when you're doing jujitsu, you're always in pain. I was just like, just worked through the pain. Then I started developing some real chronic problems. It wasn't until I started doing stem cells and then starting to understand, you can't, [19:00] but it's not wise to just go and only do jujitsu. Really you should be doing maintenance, weightlifting, that's designed to strengthen your joints. And so I really started doing that, and that made a giant difference too. And instead of just thinking of it as a workout, it's always like, okay, is your car ready to get on the track? No, it's not. You need to change your tires. No, it's not. Your suspension's off. No, it's not your suspension's off. No, it's not. You need more gas. Whatever the fuck it is. Sure, absolutely. Treat your body like that. Don't just say, I'll fork it tough. I'm going to show up with the flu. And I'm going to go seven rounds. No, don't do that. That's stupid. That's stupid. Every time I've ever done that, it's set me way back. It's never helped me. Never one time that I was like push through the pain, has it ever been good, not a single fucking time. So now at 56, now I'm smart enough to go, okay, don't do chin ups, you're getting tendonitis in your left elbow, stop, you know where this goes, it's right here, you get it the same spot every time. Every time. Let's start doing some wrist curl. Let's start do it, let's work the legs, let's do a bag rounds. Stop, stop doing the show. You can pull down too, by the way, it's fine. Yeah, there's different stuff you could do [20:06] that doesn't pull on that very specific tendon, but overuse injuries, those kind of things. So when you're doing a film like 300 and you're getting these guys prepped for this, are you telling them what to eat? Are you, you have a other, I mean,, I mean, nutritionists. It's awesome. If I were to put you in a movie, the cool thing is, is you show up, you work out, they hand you food, they like massage you. It's like the greatest. Oh, that's great. It's like, pro athletes. Yeah, pro athletes. It's just a pro athlete. You're like in training camp, you know. Dude, I just watched 300 again this summer because my family and I went to, uh, went to Greece. Oh, cool. And so we watched 300 in my 13 year old that never seen Greek 300 before. And she was like, holy shit. Oh, yeah. That's a fucking move. We were just in Greece this summer too. And it was cool because we were like in Athens [21:01] and we were walking up this part of the dawn and I noticed like all the gift shops They have like Spartan shit in them and I go I said to the guy to go I'm sorry about that and she goes what are you talking about? And I go apologize for all this Spartan stuff in here and she goes yeah, it's a fucking movie 300 I go yeah, that's why I said I'm sorry. I made that movie she goes what do you mean you made it. No, no, no. And I said, I go, yeah, that's why I said I'm sorry. I made that movie. She goes, what do you mean you made it? And I was like, yeah, I, I, that's my movie has my movie. And she goes, no. And I go, yeah, and then she was like, that's awesome. Now she likes you. Yeah, it was cool. It was a cool swing, but it was a fucking awesome movie. That's cool. I appreciate it. If you don't like 300, you can go eat shit. Anybody who didn't enjoy that, what do you hate fun? Do you hate? Well, the thing is, also, I met a lot of like, a lot of seals, a lot of like first responders. As you can imagine, really, really, you know, I've seen a lot of Spartan tattoos, because of that. And I'm proud that they find some sort of inspiration. [22:10] To Leonidas. Yeah, but every man wants to be. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it was perfect. He, he, he, new where, like, look, you know, he knew where is, he knew who to look to, to find out whether to burn the whole thing down. Yeah. And she gave him the okay. It was also the movie was a brutally representative of both. It was both like mythical and beautiful and magical, but also very tied into the ethics of the Spartans and how absolutely brutal their world was and how they just accepted things in a way that just like, wow. Yeah, that's the thing that people are always like, you know, with me, I mean, they ask me like, what about the morality of the movie? What do you think of it? [23:00] And I go like, Sparta is also another planet. Like if you, like we can't, we would not make it. Right. Like to say like, oh yeah, I'm cool like with the Sparta. I mean, they would have chucked me off the cliff like they won. You know, it's not like a, it's hard for us to imagine. Like you want to like say, yeah, I'm with the Spartans in this. But like, you know, they were, they were brutal people. They were a tool. They were a tool. Like we have democracy maybe because they existed, but they weren't necessarily democratic. They didn't, there was no voting on whether or not we would like go in and die. Like that was just like what they wanted. You know, that was in their, was like, you know, in their basic genetic makeup or in their philosophical makeup was like, okay, a beautiful death. If I can get one of those, I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. And I won't give it to you, you gotta take it. Right. But yeah, that's, that's, I love that like fast pender when he's like looking down and he says that whole thing about like, [24:00] you know what's awesome is that with all the world's armies, there's got to be one guy down that fucking place that can kill me. And do it right. And they're like, are you serious? That's what's turning you on. You're excited about the fact that the guy that kills me might be down there. That's amazing. But it's also, I think when we look at things like that, and we put ourselves in the mindset of someone who lived so many years ago, like that. There's this understanding that human beings are capable of fitting into a bunch of different bizarre groups. A bunch of different strange cultures can rise. And when you have a particularly barbaric time in history, and you have this group of people and Athens that are literally changing the world through democracy and through the Illusini and mysteries and all the shit that they were doing where people are traveling from all over the globe to come to this one spot. [25:00] And then you got these fucking savages. These people are the savages of savages, the Spartans. If someone says like, what kind of a warrior would you want to be? If you're a little kid, I want to be a Spartan. Yeah, of course. Like all these sports teams have Spartans as they're like mascots. Yeah, and to imagine that there was a group of people that existed, a culture that existed that was completely warlike and had these tenants that were just unbendable. And from the time you were a child, they tested you. And if you fucked up, if you failed, if you fell apart, if you quit, you were chucked out. Yeah, the cryptale, like they, they, they, you know, the, the whole thing like where they, they would send you you around seven, you'd go into the wilderness, and you're basically living among other kids that were between seven and thirteen, and you just were wild. And the elite of those groups were called the cryptae. [26:00] And the cryptae would come down and just kill hellots whenever they wanted, like they were encouraged. The hellots were that slave class that the Spartans sort of maintained Spartan society. And these guys, these kids, imagine like if you lived, you know, in the hills, you knew there was just like this 13 year old gang of 13 year olds that were gonna just come down and murder you at any moment. They were encouraged to murder you. And they were encouraged to do it because they like, and also the hellots were fine. If the hellots killed them, that was fine. Because that meant that they weren't good enough anyway. And then they would have this like, they did this ritual with this like table of cheese. Where like all these Spartan warriors would stand around the table and all the 13 year olds who were ready to like transition to becoming true Spartans, you'd have to like try and get and pull a piece of cheese off this stone table. And the Spartan warriors who guarded the table could do anything to stop you. And it was just like just beating the crap out of these 13-year-olds. And finally, like, you know, if you got it, then you were given to a Spartan soldier who raised you. [27:03] And basically, the idea was that he was your lover, he was your teacher, he was everything to you. Because the Spartans believed that, you know, really they believed that you would die for your brother if you were also lovers. You know, they thought that like, if you were confused about why we're fighting, fight for that guy, who's not only your best buddy, but like, there's like a story I guess where they were like, the spark, when the Persians first came, they sent a scout over and they looked down at the Spartans right in the night before the big battle and he goes, he went back and he goes, they were all like, have sex with each other, it was like a weird like, you're like, like, it's, we're gonna be good. And there was this, one of the Spartans kings was the old Spartan king was now working with the Persians and said like, oh no, we're fucked. They're saying goodbye to each other. Do you know what that means? Like we're completely screwed. Like they're gonna, like we're gonna get murdered tomorrow. [28:01] You know, like, and they were like, you're nuts, you don't know what you're talking about. Like, they're a bunch of softies. Like, let's go get them. What if that's the key to being the absolute greatest army you have to be gay? Yeah, I have to be gay. Well, there's precedent, so I don't know. There is precedent, right? Like, imagine if that was applied today. Yeah, it could be amazing. Yeah, but we'll do it be a real problem. We'll see, we'll see. The family structure. Let's see what they say. Yeah, by the way, in the end, the Spartans had a real problem because they couldn't, we talk, there's this really crazy thing like we're on their wedding night. They would have to shave the head of your bride and dress her like a man and she would fight you because there's That was the only way they got hard. That's the only way they could get it. Yeah, I get it. Oh, my God. They need it like, unless they got like, unless they got like a bloody lip, you know, they were like not, it wasn't gonna happen. That's so insane. Isn't that crazy? That's so insane. So like you can imagine that it was hard to like keep the, you know, generate enough you, you're as far as your procreation was going, [29:07] it wasn't it? God, I imagine being a woman back then too. Well, they had to run the whole show, because basically the guys were just training. So they all the commerce and like the deals they were making to like, you know, okay, we're gonna make a trade deal with this. That was all done by the women because like the guys were like no we're got we got a work out It's kind of awesome in some ways It's kind of awesome It's kind of crazy and it's kind of crazy that it requires you to be gay To be the greatest army because that's the one element How much do you love this person beside you? Yeah, you got to love them with everything Yeah, I'm gonna imagine the difference between you being with some random stranger on the street and a bunch of thugs attack the random stranger. How you would treat it versus if they attacked a wife. You would love to do anything to fight. It's different. I did that in Rebel Moon. There's a bit where I put that there's a part where Sophia's character says like that. [30:06] They basically say they encouraged me to find a lover in the military academy because when the politics of war became too abstract like okay take that beach or like climb that mountain a lot of times you know soldiers like what's so just like, why? Like there's no why. But like if you're, but if you have a lover who's next to you, who's your life, and if they get killed or they're in danger, you're, you get, you know, you're going to be back on it. You're back on it, yeah. And I think that it's an interesting, we don't, of course, in our modern society, we don't play with that aspect of, you know, in war. We try not to anyway. We seem not to. But, you know, like with using the relationship to create a bond. So it's an intro. I mean, there's camaraderie, brotherhood, of course. But they've replaced that aspect of it with technology. [31:02] Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, which is interesting. And maybe that's good, but. Maybe it is good. But I mean, I could imagine a world in the future where things go totally sideways. Where we go back to that. Yeah, absolutely. We'll make a movie about it. I mean, that is a possible future dystopian movie. Like a new spark is the spark of the 2059. Well, as soon as, what is that Einstein thing? Four or three is fought with New York weapons. Four or four is fought with rocks. Yeah. It sticks in rocks, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, if it's World War, it does it, it's probably going to wipe out the whole race. But if it's something else, everyone thinks of dystopia as being something man created, which is real possible, but it's also possible we could have been an asteroid. Oh yeah, absolutely. That's more possible, I think. That's more likely. I think we could fuck up and nuke each other, but it's probably not going to happen, because people have been really good about it since 1947. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah That's a good work. But there's a giant difference between things that you can control and things you can't control. [32:07] It's through diplomacy and people aging out. It's possible that we could never have a nuclear war. It's not possible. We're not going to get hit. Oh, yeah. That's why I mean, I'm very much encouraged any NASA programs that are, you know, with their, they got their telescopes pointed into the stars. They're like, oh, here comes one. Let's see if we can go get it, you know. Nudget, Nudget. They're close. They're close to being able to do that, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson, so they're about a decade away from being able to deflect asteroids. Yeah. That'll be a big deal. Yeah, but the hope is in that decade that We don't get it. We miss one because some of them come in from behind the sun. Oh yeah, yeah, no, they're like, oh yeah, we don't, whoop, yeah. That's not cool. Well, there's so much weirdness in space anyway. There's solar flares that could take out our whole grid and kill all our communication systems. And they just ran around. And also the thing is like we don't know, like say you say we had one of those like 300 years ago, which in cosmic time is not that long ago. It's nothing. [33:06] It's nothing. And we didn't have the infrastructure to know that it would happen. Like we were just a bunch of guys hanging out. So like we were just like, well, that's a weird, like the Aurora Borealis is pretty strong today. Yeah, that's cool. But now we're like, oh shit, our computers are fried. So it's also now. The stakes are different. We have the ability to go and look at the data that they had from a couple hundred years ago and say it appears that there was an event. And the event, if it happened today, we would be fucked. Right. And we did not prepare for this event when we were constructing all this equipment. Well, because we, because also the equipment got built, it didn't get, it got built over time. It was like a slow, you know, this made this and this made that and we relied on this. So now we made this. Yeah, we don't, we built like our house of cards like pretty, pretty, pretty quickly too. And the foundations the weakest part doesn't exist. I don't think there is a foundation. [34:01] I think it's all dependent upon the grid. I really don't think there is a foundation. Well the foundation is what powers it and it's all dependent upon a grid. And the grid's very vulnerable, physically vulnerable, it's vulnerable to cyber attacks. I like that also we thought we were geniuses by putting all that online. Like oh yeah, we'll make the grid automated. Now don't do that. It's much better when there was just a guy throwing switches. Yeah, it's like he's not gonna, you can't do that. It's much better when there was just a guy throwing switches. Yeah, he's not gonna, you can't do anything to him. Just guard that guy. Yeah, guard that guy. Give him a lot of money. I love that expression in the cloud. Bitch, where's this cloud? That cloud is in fucking Cleveland. What are you talking about? There's no cloud. Cloud is not cool. That's such a lie. Stop calling it the cloud. That's a dirty lie. Oh, it's in the cloud. I just go get it. How do you say that? Why don't you say it's in the stars? Why don't you just lie to me and say it's in heaven? Tell me it's in heaven. Say it died. All my photos of my baby. Yeah, we can all the right. My family, my dog, their own everything. I say print everything. That's my philosophy. Even the print everything. The real problem with us us is all of our data is on hard drives, all of it. Yeah. [35:05] There's just paper books, hard drives, and that's it. So something big happens, everything's useless and we start from scratch. Yeah, paper books are still kind of work, but. Yeah. A lot of the modern innovations are probably even in paper books. A lot of them. A lot of them. Well, it's funny because the movies, for instance, one of the things is I always archive a film print of all my movies because the digital storage of movies, if you ask anybody, even in the business, they don't know whether in 10 years, you'll be able to play a movie that you have now, like whether you physically or how it degrades all those things they don't know. That's crazy. And so I'm like, that's why I make film prints because I'm like, I know that we keep it that we keep the film prints in the, in the, in this, you know, locker and you can at least pry them out and always have it. [36:02] But like, I just think it's crazy that we don't know where the movies will exist. It's a crazy thing. Do we're about a Zach? It's in the cloud. Yeah, it's no fucking cloud. Cheers, brother. Thanks for doing this, man. Yeah, I know it's my pleasure. That's hilarious. It's in the cloud. Why are you worried? Yeah, that's a dirty those. I know, but it's a dirty lie. There's no clouds. Stop. But it makes people feel safe. It makes them feel good, because it's like the cloud is so reliable. And also, I think you don't need to worry about our understand. It's also beautiful. It's fluffy. It's in a blue sky. And all your info safe in there. Yay. Nothing can hurt it except for It's total horseshit. It's so crazy. It's on hard drives. It's so crazy. And if you had to start from scratch, if you imagine stumbling upon some ancient Egyptian hard drives and go, okay, where do we even begin? You can't play it. You can't play it. What is this? You might be looking at it. Right. Yeah, how is it encoded? What is the equipment I need to connect it to in order to, does it play out loud? Do I see it? [37:05] What is this? It's like, what? It's like when you show your kid a vinyl record, right? Right. Showing my kids a vinyl record and they're like, this is incredible. How does it work? I'm like, well, the needle kind of bounces up and down on those grooves and makes sound. It sounds like a song. And they're like, that's insane technology. I'm like, no, that's not insane technology. Your iPod or your fucking phone, that's insane technology. That's a thing you can't, that doesn't even, you can't explain this to me. Okay, I can, I just explained that to you. I love the fact that I'm in my car and like my daughter loves Melanie Martinez. So I've no idea what the song is. Tell me what the song is and she'll tell me what the song is and I could say play Melanie Martinez, whatever the song is. And it just, it plays it. Instantly plays it. Unbelievable. Instantly. And it's coming through the speakers. And it sounds amazing. [38:01] There's all this sound. God, that is incredible. It is. It's bananas. Or you can say like play Johnny Cash instantly instantly play hurt Yeah, play hurt right now instantly instantly. It just starts playing and you're like oh god. Why'd I say that? Yeah? Why did I say play hurt? Play God's gonna cut you down What a world that we live in What a world that we live in. Instantly. I was just listening to that the other day. Is it? I did want to show you this picture of all Sandra's legs. We were so much better off when we were trapped in our world, walled garden. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, we got out and now it's over. Yeah, it's fucking nuts, man. It's nuts. I think it's beautiful because I love the fact that you can tell me about something and I can get it instantly. [39:00] Like someone could say, oh my God, you have to see. That's Sandra's legs. Oh my god. That's insane. He looks like he's gonna die. Yeah, and he loves that. That's particularly ridiculous. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's awesome. The guy has no body fat. Zero body fat. What is his body fat? The guy said to him, the guy at the gym said, are you 8% body fat? He goes, I'd kill myself. That's ridiculous. But that's his thing though. He literally is like, I'm in space. You're not like we get stuff from the space program. We figure out how a razor works or get shaving cream that keeps the hairs from flying. That's what he is to me. He's like, I'm up here on the ragged edge so I can come, I could give you this information back. Oh, that's an interesting way of looking at it, right? Like you do learn health and wellness things from people that are on the fringes in the bodybuilding world. Yeah, and he's in his 60s, so it's like, you know, you're like, okay, this guy can have legs like that in his 60s, so give me some, give me a little, give me a little, you know, of the, give me a little of the knowledge. [40:06] And he's funny too, because he's like, look, I don't have a family, I don't have kids. This is what I do. Jesus. You know, this is what I do. I just get jacked. Get jacked and I like research. I test my body constantly. He's like on the ragged edge with every single like, you know, like he's always making these small adjustments. He goes, I ate a sesame seed and I saw that I was a little less ripped. You know what I'm saying? You know? So ridiculous. You know what I'm, because it's like, oh he's constantly like, you know, like it's like he's on a razor's edge. Which I love. You know what I'm saying? People like that are extreme. Super beneficial to any like extreme sport. That's what I'm saying is that like you can, the little, that those little pieces of information they tell you about like, oh, you know, like whatever, I'm taking this or like, I thought about this and I experimented with that and you're like, oh, okay. Like, thanks, thanks for that. Thanks for being out there. Right. You know, thanks for being in the oxygen mask like up on the stratus. Yeah, the possessed mad genius. Yeah, it's they by the way the world's made of that. Oh, yeah [41:06] There's a guy out here in Austin, Texas his name is John Donner her Widely considered to be the greatest jiu jitsu coach ever. Oh really? He's here. He's a professor Uh, he was a professor of philosophy at Columbia. That's cool and Was spending time as a bouncer wanted to learn martial martial arts, got into Jiu-Jitsu, and became a Jiu-Jitsu fanatic to the point where he's teaching it and sleeping on the floor. Did he have an acro-guess for it? Anyway, it was like, well, he's a very strong guy. A double double, okay. He's very strong, he played rugby, but rugby destroyed his knee, he fucked his body up, which kept him from ultimately competing. But he's just a crazy, mad genius. It doesn't give a fuck about anything but fighting. So all he's doing is like teaching people, how to strangle people during the day, and then watching tape, and reviewing techniques, and creating the next workout schedule. [42:01] And they work out 365 days a year. 365 days a year. And his number one student is Gordon Ryan, who's widely considered to be the greatest jujitsu athlete of all time without question. That's his belt up there. When he won, I would, but he's his number one student and they just train 365 days a year. They take no days off. Christmas fuck you. The birthday fuck you. That's cool. And it's just off. Christmas, fuck you. The birthday, fuck you. That's cool. And it's just, you've got days where you don't train as hard. Are you worn out? Well, you're not gonna train as hard today. Yeah. And it's like you're saying like, yeah, like you understand the bit, like at that point, you're in the rhythm, you understand your body, you know like, okay, I but we're always learning, we're not gonna stop learning, we're not gonna stop understanding. That's the one thing that's crazy about YouTube too, is that this idea that there's a resource. You know, like it used to be to find a technique or to learn something, you have to go to the guys house, fucking sleep on his porch. He's not gonna fucking train you, he's gonna slap you around, like whatever. [43:01] We're now, like, these kids today, they get like a lot of their shit, the basic shit. They can, they're like, I'm learning this. I can learn something that I had no access to. Absolutely. Zero access, which I think is incredible. That's, I have a folder on my phone that's all jujitsu moves that I didn't know existed. And I just watched a jujitsu move, and I was like, how was he doing that? Left leg in. Oh, he went with the right arm. Wow, then I'll send it to my friend Eddie Bravo who's a G-Jitsu instructor. I'll go, is this legit? And he goes, I'm gonna try this tonight. And they'll text each other back and forth. So it's a constant new thing. Sure. There's the basics. Put it in the workshop and let's see what happens. A kid could be, just all you need is a computer that connects to the internet and a friend. And you can get good at jujitsu. It's better to have private instruction. Of course. It's better to have a coach who, you know, when you're teaching your classes, you've got to make sure this arm is protected and keep this here. And you have to have the defense, you have to put your hand on the hip. If you don't have someone like that, it's gonna take you longer to figure it out. But if you are diligent and you're really dedicated [44:08] and you have a fucking YouTube connection, you can get good at jujitsu. Yeah, no, I think that's the go to the mountain. That's true. Well, that's what I mean. And that's true of a lot. That's true of a lot addiction right now. I was like, yeah, I started playing. I can get it. I started playing Fortnite with my son who's 10 and he was like, nah, he tapped out immediately. And I was like, well, you should come back because I'm just, this is kind of cool. So I'm playing and then like, you know, three months later, I'm like, what the fuck is matter with me and I are the same thing. I go, I'm so, she's like, I'm so done. You need another fucking hobby. I like, and so she's like, I bought you some clay, right? Oh. And so I started doing some pottery, right? And that's where I was like, oh, YouTube is insane. Like, because I just in like three weeks, I had done, like all, so now she's like every search engine is like hand-built, [45:06] pottery, like glazing, firing kilns. Oh, that's cool. So yeah, so I have much more productive. It's much, well, by the way, I get something at the end. Like, I feel better. I feel so much better. Feeling the gameplay video games for 12 hours in a row, you feel terrible with those. You feel sick, you're stuck. It's literally too like, and you have something good happening. You're like, yeah, like I'm like, fuck yes. I look over and my wife is like in the doorway going like, what's wrong with you? Are you serious? You're a grown ass man. Should you not be making a movie right now or like writing something or doing something? Well, it's important for people to know that even people who are successful movie makers are still gonna get addicted to those goddamn things. They're heroin. They're too good. They're so good. They're so well made. We had a giant quake problem and I had a giant quake problem for years and I quit. And I quit cold turkey when I realized it was like just I was playing 8-10 hours a day. You can't see the hours. That's what does it when you see the hours. When you see like a total number of hours that you've played, you're like, okay, I'm done. [46:05] Yeah. What could I've written a novel? I could've done so much. I could've done so much. So I stopped, but then when we had a new studio in Los Angeles, we had a big warehouse and we said, let's put a fucking LAN in here. So we put a local area network and bought some gaming computers and set it up for Quake and instantly I was a junkie again. Bast! Grashing my face. I was fucking every day. We were playing three, four hours a day. It was nuts. It was nuts. It's, see. It just gets right into your, it's too good. It's too good. They're good at it. Well, I saw that you're better like you're with it is it's too, it's like racing. Yeah. The one thing I did, I saw this the other day where they had one of the F1 guys went against like some kid and he beat him. And I was like, that makes me happy. On the racing simulator. [47:00] On the racing simulator. Yeah. And I was like, that made me happy. Well, only just because, you know, you want that skill set, you want in your mind that skill set to translate. Yes. Like you're like, see? I was watching this thing. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still matter. Still and the lights go off, you have to touch the light when it goes off. And the Formula One race car drivers were like off the charts. Oh really? And they all have crazy thick necks from this. Oh yeah, from this. And also the helmet's not light. You know, that's like a serious. Yeah, that's a fucking serious piece of weight up here. Yeah, bounce in your head around. No, it it's not. It's wild. But a GT3 car looks amazing. And then the Formula One car, like no way. That's not real. This is real time. Oh, as far as like it being able to stick to the track where like so much faster. It's so much faster. It's so much faster. And you're the time that you have the GT3 cars. So these are just GT3 cars. [48:10] That's that's the the ride is the GT3 car. The left is the formula one car. Look how much faster it's gone. Yeah, the fucking insane. I mean, they're so fast and the way they hug, I went to the, uh, Coda, the Formula one race out here. Yeah, yeah, it's insane to see it live. Yeah, you see it live. You really appreciate it. She's like, oh my God. My daughter Willow's addicted to forming the one. She's like, I sent her down two years ago to it and it was like, like, you don't look at that. See? That sounds amazing. Woo! Yeah, like the GT-T, they're not even moving in comparison. Yeah, it's not even close. Yeah, and I centered out, because at the time for the one that was wanting me to, we were gonna do a film. I was gonna do like a commercial for them, you know, that I was in the middle of pitching them, and they were like, oh, can we send you down to Austin to the race? And I said, you know, I can't, because I'm in She has like pit access. She was like losing her mind. She's calling me every five minutes. But like, are you insane? Look at theirs. [49:05] There's like, you know, Hamilton, I can't believe you're right there. And I was like, okay, calm down. Don't be a groupie. I like, I want you to like, she has like a tattoo of like formula one like a car. Yeah, she's really into America. But because it didn't make any sense, it was so popular worldwide, but not popular in a place that's most obsessed with cars. Yeah, like makes no sense. You feel like we would just be like drinking the Kool-Aid of that so hard. Well, our thing is just going around with Circa real quick. Like our thing is so silly in comparison, like NASCAR? Yeah, no. NASCAR is so silly. It's crazy. And you think that like we would dig like this kind of all the turns and like insane technology. It's like feels like it's right on our wheelhouse. And maybe it, and I think it can be. Well it turns out it is. It's just gotta take a minute. And it's something like, it has something like a Netflix special has to happen for it. It's like what happened with the UFC with the ultimate fighter. The UFC was always like crazy, exciting, but then the ultimate fighter put it on television and everybody's like, wow, this is cool. [50:07] And you get to like invest in a personality. Yes. I think that's in the end, Americans love, that they want to hook onto someone and ride them through the whole thing. Yes, yes, that's the fun. They want to get connected to that person and root for them and feel the journey, especially the ultimate fight it was such a brilliant idea because you get these guys to live in a house together and then they're gonna beat the fuck out of each other. And they know they're gonna have to fight. So there's all this psychological warfare going on, there's like chest puffing and there's so much weird shit happening. Yeah, it's by the way, it's a great show. And also because like the drama, if you have fighting and drama together, it's kind of like an amazing comedy. You can't look away. And it's real fighting. And it's absolutely real fighting. Yeah, like you know, it's not like fucking around. And these guys are fighters. You know what I mean? Like that's the thing. It's not like you got a bunch of schmucks and said, okay, you guys getting a ring and sort of see what you can see what happens. [51:05] But these guys suddenly are like, and guys have gone from that show to become world champions. Absolutely. Which is wild. That's cool. That's very, and you're like, oh yeah, I saw them when they were just like scrapping around the house. It's cool to see them like rise like that. It's an amazing show. It's cool. Well, there's a few things like that, like Formula One racing and fighting that it just has to get in front of enough eyes. It's just we have these things that we've always, like baseball. It's always been around. If you brought baseball out today, it doesn't have a chance. No chance. No chance. It's a zero chance. I think golf would still make it. Well, also because it's a ludicrous concept golf. That's what I love about it. It's like, and I, you know, I'm an okay golfer. I've done a lot of golf commercials. My dad's a scratch golfer. He's an amazing golfer. You don't like a commercial. Yeah, back in the day, you know, like, because when I got out of college, I did done every all the brands, [52:07] every like I've done a bunch of super bowl spots. I did the like Clizetale 911 Tribute spot. There's a lot of all these kind of, for me that were all these kind of touch-uns, but along the way, I did like, you know, PGA, I did Tidalist, I did like all these like, you know, I have a tour bag like in storage that says like Zach daddy's night or on it like on my tour bag Yeah, so but but like the guys like you see these like And I mean they are like Phil Mickelson is like an insane Like he he does this trick where you stand with your hands like this, you know And then he's behind you with this pitching wedge and it takes a full swing and cuts it. If he skulls it, it's gonna crack you in the back of the skull. But it goes over your head and lands in your hands, right? What? What was it standing right in front of you? I haven't seen the landing in hands, but this kind of video. Yeah, it's literally this watch. I just gonna do it right. He's gonna do it like. Oh my God. [53:07] See that? Yeah. It's like that's the right. I did a spot with Phil. Oh fuck that. I did a spot with him where he, I did a spot for him. I think it was four, it was with David Robinson for the PGA tour and he was sick. He had like a hundred degree temperature. And like what it was was basically we did, they said these guys are good. It was the name of the campaign and it was like all these football players and like golf would be, it was a ludicrous idea. Golf would be in these scenarios and this was basketball. It was like one second left. Phil Mickelson comes in to play this basketball game. They're going to play with a golf ball and they throw in the ball. The ref throws the golf ball to him and he's, he catches the ball on his, on the, on the, on the, on the blade of his pitching wedge, traps it on the ground and then hits, picks it off the, [54:07] the gym floor, you know, and the ball flies up and then Dave drop and soon dunk set. That was the commercial. So he's sick and he's like, Zach, I don't know, man. Oh, also we did a version of it where we had made the floor about a ball so would so he could take a divot. And then the PGA was like, well, we don't want to look like it's, they were kind of mad because they were like, we don't want to look like we're destroying property. I was like, come on guys, it's like cool. I think it's cool that he digs the floor up, right? They can fix wood. Yeah, it's also not real. You know, like you can't,. Like I go, well, let's just try, you know, do what you can and like, well it'll only be a couple shots. So he's like, I'll do the best I can. So like, you know, I throw him the ball and he's, he just like cuts it in the air. And you know, like he, was like, I'm sorry. [55:06] I'm like, I don't know what you would do different. Like, it's so crazy. He's so interesting when you see wizardry at that level. Like the technique and the perfection of it at that level is incredible. It's so incredible. You're like, I don't even play golf and I could the tournament before the one we had done, before the shoot that we did, we were doing it in in Kaminsky Park in Chicago, right? And he was, the idea on that one was like, he's, you know, top of the nine two outs, down by three bases loaded, whatever, whatever, you know, in picture, here comes John Daly, right? And so what we did was, so the idea was like, we had this like minor league picture, was supposed to throw a pitch and he's, you know, we did it with visual facts, he takes the ball of the air. So what we did was we got this super long tee, right? And we put the ball on it and I was like, John, do you think you can, can you hit a drive with a two foot T? Like that sounds crazy. He's like, ah, I can, no problem. [56:07] But like when he came out, he was mad because he had picked up his ball. Like, you know, he got fined by the PGA. If you pick up your ball halfway through the tournament, you can't just leave. They don't like that. And I guess he was having a bad round. And so he just said, fuck it. And he just picked up his ball and walked off. And they were like, so they find him. And he was super mad that he got fined. And so he goes, he goes, I'm gonna fuck up that jumbo tron. And I was like, I was like, John, I go, that's me. I'll have to pay for it. It's not the PGA. And then he was like, he's like the sweetest guy. And then he just like, he just cranks this. He's like our baby Ruth. Like he literally, I've done a bunch of spots with him. You know like on his backswing, the club head is pointing down at the ground [57:00] because he's so twisted and then he just uncoils. And it's just unbelievable the amount of power that the guy and he hits the ball out of the stadium and it goes literally we had PAs in the parking lot and they're like the ball just goes over their heads and like into the freeway. You know he's just a freaking. Jamie do you have that video that I sent you recently of that guy? that I sent you recently of that guy. There's this fucking guy who does this step in. Oh right, sure like the happy Gilroy. It's not quite that. Not quite that, but with technique and it's perfect and the drive is insane and the torque is insane. Again, just coming from someone who doesn't know, Jack shit about golf. Look at this kid. Jesus. Jesus. I mean, that is fucking insane. The fact that he can actually, with that amount of backswing, the fact that he can actually hit the ball cleanly is unbelievable. [58:01] Is he from, is that Chinese? I don't know about, I don't know. It looks like Japanese to me. Is it Japanese? Is it Japanese? Is it Japanese? So he's Japanese? There's a lot of, I mean, it's very popular in Japan. Where is it? Yeah, his name is Japanese. Yeah, but that's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. sound is awesome. That's where that could be. There's balls that do that. Bro, I don't give a fuck what does that. Oh. And also like ends. The club ends in front of his face. Yeah. Past his face. There's left shoulder. It's so much whip on the, it's amazing. That's crazy, but yeah, that's fun. That's fun. It was fun actually that time in my life traveling around and doing all those TV commercials all over the world. Like I had a crew of guys. It was like me and my boys, and we would just like literally go one job, pop a new guinea, one job, Germany, one job, [59:00] Mexico, one job, Iceland. Like over and we were just on the road completely out of our minds and it was just, you know, in like whatever product we'd be like, okay, I'd be pitching the guys be like, what are we doing next? I'm like, I gotta get on a call, but like I've been agency and I get on the call in the hotel room and I pitch him and I'd be out of my manner and all what I'm saying. And I'd come out and be like, how did it go? I think I got it. And they were like, did you nail it? I was like, yeah, I told them it's gonna be like, low angles and slow motion and it's fucking cool. And they were like, okay, cool, let's go. And it was just this, we were just in this machine. And frankly, I learned everything, like I spent 10 years, you know, like because I was a director of photography, I was a DP and the director, and we were a pretty small show, but we had giant clients, anything you could think of. So then when I went to make a movie, it wasn't like, there was no thing I hadn't seen. [1:00:03] It wasn't like I stepped on a set, all in my first time director, everyone's like, oh, this guy's the first time director. What's he gonna say? And I'll be like, there was like, the tools were my tools. I mean, I was very comfortable with the tool set that I had in front of me. More so than I probably should have been. I remember Matt Lienetti, who was the DP of Dawn of the Dead, that was my first movie, was like halfway through the thing. He's like, you know, you know what you're doing. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what you're doing. Like, he goes, they can't fire you now. Because like, we were halfway through, because I was so diligent. Like on my first movie, I was so scared. You know, Scott Stubber who was the executive at Netflix who was my executive on Army of the Dead, he was the one that hired me to do dawn. And I was so, I wanted to do such a, like I wanted to be so conscientious. [1:01:01] And I was so scared of like going over budget and not nailing it and making sure it was cool and all that. That like, not only at one point was like, look man, you gotta just fuck it. You know, it's your, make it cool now. Don't give a fuck, just do what you think. And it was such great advice because I think the movie's edge and all the coolness in the movie and the man comes around and all that like weirdness, the whole like montage with the Richard Cheese song in the middle. That was all just me going, all right, good. Thanks Matt, I'm gonna just go and he goes, good. Cause like, you know, he goes, otherwise he goes, you're just gonna make a movie that this zombie movie is gonna disappear. You know, unless you fucking add your sauce. Yeah, go, you gotta add your sauce because he goes, otherwise it's like, look, another zombie movie like, who cares? Right. He goes, you, he goes, I know you know what's cool. Well, you made it fun. I think that that was the whole thing. For me, it was like, how do you make a B movie [1:02:05] that's self-aware that it's a B movie right and in that self-awareness It let you off the hook to enjoy it because you can still be smart like you deconstructed the genre You because like I've always been fascinated with genre and the deconstruction of genre like I'm a genre filmmaker I always say to everybody like people like what kind of I'm a genre filmmaker like and that is to say that like In genre though you can explore philosophy, you can explore mythology, especially, which is like myth is my main... We make myth, modern myth, movies are modern Superman, right, and Batman, whatever. Are they not the mythic answer to the modern, a lot of modern questions about how we should live? You know, like you say Superman, is he not an invention, a 20th century invention that says to us, like all the fucking shit [1:03:02] that we run up against, whether it be war or like class struggle or whether it be interrelationships between different countries. Does Superman not appear in answer to us primitive brains trying to figure out where we are? Like you make a guy like Superman, so he can answer some of those questions. He can represent a point of view that is not helpless in the face of the insanity that is like, you know, the problems of the 20th century. And I think in Batman in the same way, he's an answer to like urban, what is urban, the urban jungle needs a myth, just like the ancient jungle needed a myth or the ancient, those all, like in those days we'd say like, why is the volcano erupting, right? But now we say, because we didn't know, we're just like, I guess it's the gods are mad, you know? [1:04:03] And so now the problem is like, why am I, why do I feel helpless in the face of technology or whatever? So we need an answer, we need an additional answer. And I think that's what, and that's what I've always, and I feel like genre has allowed me to make those comments, you know? And I think, and you know, look, the funny thing about, you know, what I always find interesting, you know, the thing that I always find fascinating about sort of the movies I've made and how they've landed on pop culture, is that like, I remember like in the last article it was like, it said, Zack Snyder love him or hate him, right? Like, and I'm like, hate him, like what, I don't understand. It's just a movie. You know, like it's not, I mean, you look at Rebel Moon, you're like, okay, well, there's not a lot. It's not weird enough. It's not offensive enough to hate him for. In my opinion. People find a reason to hate today. [1:05:02] Oh yeah. Yeah. And 99% of those people also hate themselves. That's exactly what's going on. And when people are very hateful over art, you can like it. You don't like it. There's a lot of stuff I don't like. I have no issue with you not liking the movie. That's not the question. Who cares? The thing is like, you personalize, you'd hate me because I'm like, I don't understand that. I'd be like unreasonably successful. That's how they feel. And that's what happens with people. You've done so many hit movies like, fuck this guy. People compare themselves to someone like yourself that's been so successful and they get angry. That's why I can't read comments. Yeah, I get, no, that's been so successful and they get angry. That's why you can't read comments. Yeah, I get, no, that's why you cannot read comments. I get, no, that's why you cannot read comments. I get, no, that's why you cannot read comments. I get, no, that's why you cannot read comments. I get, no, that's why you cannot read comments. I get, no, that's why you cannot read comments. I get, no, that's why you cannot movie making and decide that their way is the only way like listen i like the barbie movie okay i found it [1:06:08] enjoyable awesome i went with my daughters and i had a good mindset i said let me just enjoy this movie just not be like put the fuckers this man didn't fuck this i just said it's a fun movie yeah it didn't offend me it i laughed a bunch of times. I thought it was fun. And I went online and saw so many people angry about that fucking movie. And it was all men. Yeah. And as a way. Listen, first you're out of your fucking mind. If you go to a Taylor Swift concert and you expect to see ACDC, you're out of your fucking mind. You're going to a Taylor Swift concert You know what it is so if you go to see the Barbie movie you know what it is why you mad Yeah, you know it like were you where you shocked like it's literally It's called Barbie girls. Don't yeah, what did you think was gonna happen in it also and I by the way [1:07:02] I love the movie and I'm actually Also, and I, by the way, I love the movie, and I'm actually lampooned in that film. There's a line in the movie that says, I feel like I feel like I was in a dream where all I cared about was the Zack Snyder cut of Justice League. That is a line in that movie. That's hilarious. Literally, and I'm like, that's awesome. Like, I have no, I think that that, I was like, okay. my wife was like, she goes, that's cool, right? Like, that's cool. That they came after you. I was like, it's 100% cool. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. It was, it was interesting, but it's interesting to see when there's, like, such a strong reaction to certain things. And especially amongst, like, really wild hardcore fans. Because there's hardcore, particularly. I know. Well, you also face it because you cover these genres, you cover these subjects that are iconic, Superman, Batman, I mean, just those alone. [1:08:02] No, no. And by the way, that's a lifestyle choice for a lot of people. It's not a movie. Right. It's not a movie. Right. Right. It's not a movie. It's like, if I made a romantic comedy, you'd be like, okay, that was fun. Right. I, the people who love, and by the way, I love that they feel this passionately. I'm not in no way what I criticize that because I feel I live the same life, right? Because like it's for me it's morning, noon, and night. But so for those guys, it's not just a movie. And so you have to on some level, you have to acknowledge that they, this is their religion, you know, and they feel strongly about it. And by the way, the truth is it's my religion too. You know, so it's a, it's a, it's a, I tend to get in trouble because of my, I do take a deconstructivist point of view because of dark night returns, because of watchmen. Those, if you've read those two comics, it's hard to go back, you know, to like, you wanna, and it's because I care that I wanna take them apart, like I want Batman, [1:09:06] like people are always like, well Batman, Batman can't kill, right? So Batman can't kill his cannon. And I'm like, okay, with the first thing I wanna do when you say that. That's what I wanna see what happens. And they go like, well don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone. I go like, well, don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone. I'm like, well, that's just like, you're protecting your God in a weird way, right? You're making your God irrelevant if he can't be in that situation. He has to now deal with that. You know, if he does do that, what does that mean? What is it? What does it tell you, but does he stand up to it can he survive that right as a as a god as your god combat man survive that i never thought that that was can in the batman can kill well for a lot of people it is that seems ridiculous given the circumstances in which he operates and while and all the web to the comments right now don't read the comment [1:10:02] that's it that's ridiculous it's good well, and you know, there's this huge like, there's, so in Dark Knight Returns, there's a scene where, and I copied it kind of in Batman for Superman, where he grabs the M60, he busts through the wall, and he grabs the M60, and he's like, the guy's like, in the comic book, he's like got this kid, The mutant has this kid with a gun to his head. And he's like, I'll kill him, I swear, I'll do it. And Batman says, I believe you. And he shoots him, shh, shh, straight in the head. Because it's like a no-win scenario. It's like the Kobayashi Maru of, you know the Kobayashi Maru is that in Star Trek, it's that test they put Kirk through where there's a no win, right? Because they want to see how you'll react, right? So they say, okay, we're gonna make a we're gonna make a scenario a test scenario Where you don't win where there's no way to win and in that situation we find out what you would do in a no win situation because if you're gonna be the commander of this spaceship, you have to you're gonna be in in situations where, you know, it's life or death, [1:11:06] and especially when there's no tricking it, right? There's no tricking death in this case. And the famous thing with Captain Kirk is he went and hacked the machine and made it so there was a solution. And so that was his response to the no-win situation was create a scenario where he wins, his response to the no-win situation was create a scenario where he wins, which is a cool character, you know, that's a cool character move, but that's kind of how I felt. That's what they would say, don't do that to Batman. Don't put him in a no-win situation because we don't want to see him lose. Like we can't see him lose. He has to maintain this God-like status. And that's what the cool thing about Frank Miller, Frank Miller said, fuck it. I'm gonna like, I wanna see who this guy, like if a guy, so you're saying to me that I've got a gun to this kid's head, you're Batman. I'm gonna, there's no move. [1:12:01] There's no trick, there's no throwing the battering, there's no dust ball to distract me like I I've just got to pull the trigger and I kill this kid So you're saying in that scenario Batman What Batman supposed to do right? Yeah, he's gonna Lay down his gun. What what's he gonna do like it? It's the guy says to him. I'll do it. I swear it I believe you is perfect. Yeah, I believe you. I believe you. Yeah. You know, so I'm just like, that's where like Frank Deacon takes Batman and just tears him in half. And you've got to now come out the other side of that. And Batman is still the hero. Batman still does the right thing. He maintains his code. His, he doesn't change, but like our perception of him changes. And I think that's like a, that's the, and I have run a foul of, but a lot of the fandom who have, I feel like who have like gotten to the same place I have [1:13:01] with the characters where they need to test them to like, and I feel like the characters, it's been my experience that the characters have not let us down. Like these myths have not let us down. They have, they've made, they, they, you put them to the ragged edge into that scenario and they come out the other side and you're like, fuck yeah, there's a reason why Superman is Superman. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a re- like he can handle it. He can fucking take it because he's so iconic. Like you see like the red S you go anywhere in the world with that Superman t-shirt on anywhere. And you say to any kid like what's this? Oh that's Superman. Yeah exactly. Like you know that means something. That's like fucking cool. Well not only that it's one of our first ever superheroes. Literally. Yeah. I mean, just think of the name. It's so unoriginal. Superman. It's the most... You couldn't think of that today. That's not a big deal. You can't do that. I know. If you tried to come up with a Superman today, I've been in a shot. Superman? That's horrible. That's your guy. Yeah. You know, good man. We've got so many different interesting characters out there. That's why the Trinity Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman [1:14:05] are so powerful because they're literally, obviously the origin concept, right? Wonder Woman? Literally, yeah. Batman is the only anomaly because he's like a Batman. Like what does that mean? What does he even have powers? Yeah, he's just like a half bat. Like what is that? Just got a lot of money. Yeah, he's got a lot of money. Yeah. That was like my favorite thing we did in Justice League where Bruce says that line about like when Flash says, like, what's your power? And he's like, I'm rich. I always thought that was cool. Kind of crazy that no one decided to genetically experiment on a Batman. Like, make a Batman. For another version of Batman Like take a guy and hit it with some Wolverine juice or whatever the fuck. Oh other animals Just turn him into a superhero. Yeah, instead of having just be a rich guy give him some crazy genetic Mutation something that they do to him that turns him into something [1:15:02] I think that and that is the thing I mean not to that extent But that's the thing that that, and that is the thing, I mean, not to that extent, but that's the thing that Frank does, and that's the reason why I wanted Aflac, because to me Batman's a big dude, right? Aflac six four, he's like a legit big dude. And in the shoes, the boots are like two inches. So he's literally almost like six six in the costume. you know, six six in the costume. Like when he comes out in the costume with that little bit of, I mean, we put some muscle on him and then there's a muscle suit under the suit. And he's like, it's a, he's like legitimately a scary looking thing. You know, he's just like standing there and you're like, holy shit. Like dude, the chin is so insane in that cowl. You know, he, I mean, look at him. like dude, the chin is so insane in that cowl. Look at him. He's like, I took that picture by the way. He's legitimately, that's Batman to me. I don't know what, you know. Christian Bale was a great Batman. He's a great Batman, but he's still like 5'10\". [1:16:02] It's cool, I mean not to be, I'm not being rude about... Was that like, giant in the comic books? In some of the, like, in Dark Knight Returns and in Frank's comics, and like, you know, in the classics, he's pretty big dude. You know, he's always been pretty thick. And Dark Knight Returns, if you look at Dark Knight Returns, you know, like he's, there's a line like where he's trying to hold someone's gun and his finger can't get in the trigger guard because he's so big. You know, like where he's like, you know, I like things like that, like where you're just like, he's like, he has this, this genetic, like, gift of just being this big fucking dude. And other than that, you know, his parents were murdered in front of him. And he's also like a billionaire. So like that weird, you want it to not be just one of those things. Right? It needs to be all of them in order for him to really, to do what he can do. But if somebody really wanted to fuck around with the genre today, [1:17:01] if he had all that money, wouldn't he invest in some wild genetic engineering that turns him into an actual superhero. Yeah, so it's fine. Well, I think that that that's the real that's the fact that fans are pulling a hair like they don't like that. Oh, you're saying you're back on steroids. Not just steroids. Not just there. You wish it was there. Yeah, I'm talking something way crazier. Well, it's funny because I did that scene. Like there's that scene. I think it's it, I don't think it's in the, it might be in the theatrical, but it's definitely in the director's cut. We're like, he's wakes up and there's some chicken the bed with him that from the night before. Cause like I always say, like Batman fucks to forget. For sure, you know, Batman's a playboy, it's because like anybody, that's a common, fucking forget is a common, that's a real thing, that's a way to deal with trauma. And I think that there's that bit he wakes up and there's just painkillers on his bedside table and he just pops him and drinks some wine. I'm just like, to me that's Batman. [1:18:04] He's got a maple thaw above the bed. He's got his glass house. And he's just like, he has an aesthetic that's like clean, but that's all he does. That's like his life. You know, like he... The thing about Batman, the modern versions of Batman, the Miller Batman, your Batman's, what's interesting is that now superheroes of these flawed like very Very distressed characters sure sure like the watchman is a great the best example. They're all watchman is all trauma. It's all trauma And it's they're all crazy. They're completely crazy and it's it's such a good mood What why the fuck was there never a watchman too? Well, because frankly, the comic book doesn't exist. For me, that's why there wasn't. I just was like, the thing that's awesome about also that, it's one of those things like when you start to really, [1:19:00] you know, like night owl, not being able to get it up because he's not in his costume. Like that's just a cool, to me that's just like a, that's like pure, that's like, that's boiling down superhero to its fucking purest thing. I don't get turned on unless I like, I gotta go out, fucking save some people, do some crime fighting and now I'm fucking ready to go. You know, like that to me was like, that was like, that as a superhero movie, as a concept, took a long time to like land with the boys or like these other kind of superheroes work. Now it's cool to deconstruct superheroes. It's kind of fun. Everyone's having a good time with it. And I was doing it whatever, almost 15 years ago. And I just don't think superheroes were as deep in the culture as they are now, where all those things would land. All that deconstructive kind of work that we were doing at the time was really in reference to comic books, [1:20:02] not comic book movies, because Watchmen was written in response to the comic book industry, not necessarily. comic book movies didn't exist when the book was written. And so it's a very much, Alamoor was very much obsessed with the morality of comic book heroes within comic books. And so, and he just took an adult look at it. He's a smart genius, he's a fucking pure genius. Well, that was the thing that people figured out along the way with graphic novels as well, was that comic books aren't just a thing that children like. You know, I was a giant comic book fanatic when I was a kid, and I wanted to be a comic book illustrator. That's what I wanted to do. Oh, that's awesome. And I had one bad high school art teacher and it ruined it for me. Fucking guy. Fucking guy. He ruined it for my friend John DeVore, who was the most talented guy in the class. When I found out that he gave him an F, I was like, are you pretty good and he was quite a bit better than me. And then there was a guy named Kevin who's in our class. [1:21:06] He was also really good and all of us wanted to be comic book artists. And I was really into the more adult versions of it. Like there was some amazing like horror genre comic books back in the day. Like Creepy and Ererie that have these incredible like frizzetta covers on the, have you ever seen creepy and eerie? Sure, of course. Yeah, God, love those things. Well, I'll tell you my, sorry, go ahead and finish your, no, no, good. But you want, so what I was gonna say was that like, I was obsessed with growing up this comic book called Heavy Metal. Yes. And Heavy Metal is like my thing. Basically what happened was my mom, I had bought, I was like 13 or whatever and I had, maybe 12 even. I'd bought a copy of Heavy Metal whoever sold it to me because you know it says, Adult Illustrated Fantasy Magazine right underneath, [1:22:02] like in kinda small letters, but it's there. Right. I would cover it with my thumb when my mom was around. But she, one Christmas, like got me a subscription to have you metal. Did she know? She didn't know. She just thought it was a cool comic book, right? And I didn't say anything, of course. And that really, that comic book, and when you see the R-rated version of Rebel Moon when it comes out Because basically the deal I made with Netflix was they said I Wrote the script and I said this is a script I want to make and they said that is insane and I said yeah But it's like it's a heavy it's like heavy metal but like but like in you know live action Yeah, and they were like yeah Is there any way it could be PG-13? And I was like, well, if it's PG-13, it kind of misses the whole point a little bit. But I can imagine that, you know, for a mass audience and for like, you know, viewership, that seems like the smart way to go. I go, what about this? What if we make, if I make, take this script, I make you a PG-13 version that you can just blast [1:23:07] into the world and hopefully many people see it as possible. And then you let me, as in bonus, you just let me make this version exactly as I think. And they were like, okay, that sounds cool. So coming at the end of the summer, you'll see my two, three hour versions of Rubble Moon that are like hard, r-hour versions of Rubble Moon that are like hard, r-rated, the hardest stuff. What you wanted to do. Which I exactly wanted to do. So they said, yeah, go do that. And so they were able, because normally when I do this, directors cuts, which is a thing now I'm weirdly famous for, the directors cuts were always an answer to a thing that the studio made me do, right? Here's my movie. They're like, yeah, we really want you to cut these parts out because they're not cool. They're like, the movie's too long or the movie's too violent or whatever. And I would be like, wow, really? [1:24:01] Because I really think that's kind of the why of the movie. And they'd be like, no, it's really important. The focus groups told us that they don't like that. So take it out. So I take it out, but then I'd go like, you know, I'd go over to home video right across the street and I'd be like, hey guys, you want another movie to release because I got the shit and they'd be like, absolutely whatever you say because you know, at that time, there was a huge market for directors. It gave him a second kick at the can in home video, right? So they would be like, that's so cool. We get a whole other movie to market that like never before seen footage. You know, it just feels like a cool thing. And so that was how I've always done my directors because always as a response to what the studio was telling me couldn't be in the movie. Because I never planned, I would always go into it like bright eyed, like oh, everyone's gonna love this, it's clearly, you know, the studio, when you see my cut, you're gonna think it's amazing. And they would like look at it and go like, bro, like that's, no, like this too much. And so that's what, that's where my director's cuts kind of, as a, just as a practice, were born. [1:25:06] You know, it was born out of that me needing to show the world what I intended originally. And so, you know, by the time now that I've got to Netflix with this Rebel Moon movie, and my sort of the mythology around my director's cuts was kind of a thing, especially with Justice League, as you can imagine. They were like, you know what? Why don't we do a director's cut as part of the process rather than as a response to it? And I was like, that's really smart. Like that's really cool because in a lot of ways I totally get the economics of making a PG-13 version of this insane genre movie because what I'm asking from a budgetary standpoint is high for like a boutique-y space movie that's like a heavy metal comic. That's like a people who love that will love it more than anything else, right? [1:26:02] If I can land that, they'll think it's the coolest thing ever. But for a mass audience, it might not be exactly what you would imagine. So I'm like, I can do both. And that's kind of what, and that's kind of where I, and that's why when you see the R.A. D'Aversion of Rebel Moon, you're gonna be like, fuck, this is, this is heavy metal, I come to life is really what it is. And that's kind of what I really wanted to do. That was the thesis of my whole, like, me being turned on by the sci-fi because like the thing you can do, I feel like the thing that you can do with that format was you could really deconstruct sci-fi. Like we always talk about like, I said this at the director's because I was like, when Luke Skywalker walks into the Cantina and is confronted by Walrus, man, like, is that sexual? Like, is that, is he like, he's fucking with Luke, looks like some farm boy in this bar and this rough bar. Like, what's gonna happen to Luke? Right. [1:27:01] That's a conversation you cannot have in the context of Star Wars, right? Right. There's no chance. That's not gonna. But like in heavy metal, that's real. Yeah. That threat is real. Yeah. You know? And it's not, and it's not anything other than like a naive farm boy walking into like a gritty city bar that he doesn't know what the fuck, he has no, he's out of his element. Other than that, he's our hero. And he's gotta go through a crucible. And he's gotta learn. You know, he's gotta like, these are the like Joseph Campbellian parts of his journey. So anyway, and that's kind of what, it's cool because, you know, I've always been like the huge fan of Heavy Metal. I think it's like the fucking cool, it was the coolest thing. Heavy Metal was amazing. It's like, it always like made me, it kind of broke me for comics a little bit because you know, it was always like super sexy and super violent. And so you'd get a normal comic and be like, uh, when are they gonna start fucking? Cause Yeah, you know, it's yeah, it was always sexual and there was one that I remember that I remember [1:28:06] was like very stunning to me very shocking when I was a kid and it was a pretty sure it was heavy metal, but it was one of those genres where it was a guy and his wife started a relationship with a robot. Oh, yeah, cool. And he tried to like fight off the robot and the robot broke his arm with his big dick hanging out like the robot I'd like this big giant flaccid dick and he broke the guy's arm was like smiling at him and it was just like crazy right sounds amazing it was amazing but it was also like indicative of that that genre that those days like this is the 70s right 70s when they first started publishing that. Yeah, all that was on the ragged edge, which was so, and was so underground and so cold and so weird. That's what I loved about it and that's what I wanted to do with the movies, like say, what does the cult underground raw sci-fi movie look like, you know? So is it hard to do the PG-13 version? It's very, it was very hard. It was really, it was conflicted. Like, it was super conflicted. Although the only thing I will say is that I was liberated [1:29:08] by the fact that I knew the R-rated version exists. So there was, in the other versions of this work, in the other director's cuts, there was a version where that director's cut never was seen. There's a very good chance that that movie never got. It's all the light of day because where would you show it? In the old world, in the movie days, all you had was DVD as your option. And if DVD said, yeah, we're good with like just a normal version, then that would have been it. And it would just die a death. And you would, whatever you intended for the movie would just never be seen. And that's just how it was. And so this, in this scenario, I was like super grateful to Netflix because I was like, you guys have like done a thing that I've never been able to do my entire career. And that is like, no that this version of the movie exists and it's going to be seen. [1:30:01] So I'm happy to do whatever we, whatever you guys think is right for the PG-13. I'm like I'm a good soldier and I'm proud of it and I love it but yes it is different from like what I you know was what if the R version is it NC-17 or R is it? I won't say it's decorating. We're waiting to see where there's still up against it, but we're trying to get it. It's TVMA right now. What does that mean? I don't know. No one does. What's your audiences? Yeah, you know, like any TV show that's not, because the cool thing about TV is they have, TV 14, and then it goes to TVMA. TVMA literally has no top on it. I think it's almost like porn is TVMA. I don't know what, I look, no one understands the ratings, no one does, it's an alchemy that is impossible to know. It's all subjective. It's all subjective and bizarre. [1:31:01] And so, and they also, it's genre related. So like say, for know, and they also, it's genre related, right? So like, say, for instance, the ratings board might say something like, um, well, this is a sci-fi movie, so it's, it's too much. If it was a horror movie, it'd be fine, but it's a sci-fi movie, so it's not fine, or it's a superhero movie. That was the whole thing with Batman versus Superman. I remember the ratings board said, we just don't like the idea of Batman fighting Superman. I was like, what is that? But how is that your opinion? Like how is that, that has nothing to do with the rating? The ratings, do you know? Yeah, they kept saying like, they kept making it in R. They kept coming back with an R for us We were like, we really, what do you want us to cut out? And they were like, well, we just don't like the idea of Batman's fighting Superman. I'm like, I can't take that out. That's the movie. That's so ridiculous. They would have that kind of power. So it was crazy. So we really had to trim it super. It's, it's, it's, Did you think that affected the final version? I mean, if you see It's a much better movie. I, in my opinion, it's much better movie. And- But it's representative of what you actually wanted to create. [1:32:05] Yeah, and I think that that, that's, that's true of all the director's cuts that I've done is that, it's just a glimpse into the why, that you get to see better the why of the movie, the why of its origin, what it, how it, because like obviously something kept me awake for two years writing something kept me jazzed about like fuck yeah I can't wait to do this. I'm drawing. I draw for Rebel Moon Like I drew three thousand storyboards for that movie like that is like a lot of work You know to like you know to you got a carer. That's five months of drawing after I've written a script Wow, so I've written a script for a year and a half and then I draw the movie for like another five months It's fucking insane. Oh my god. You must have been going nuts. Yeah, it's good. You're missing Fortnite Yeah, yeah, that was before fortnight I mean, it's a good thing I didn't have fortnight because I would have like The problem with writing and with for me drawing is if I have one procrastination I can do, one, I'll take it. [1:33:05] Yeah. Because like if I look at that blank pad and I look at the video controller, video game controller, I'm like, oh yeah, this is way more satisfying. That thing wants to fuck me up. That pad is trying to fuck me up. The thing about the delayed satisfaction though is that if you could force yourself to get to the pad when you're done you'll feel good. And if you play the video game, you'll feel last night I started fucking around in my office. I was just watching YouTube videos and looking at pool cues and then I said all right go to work. And I snapped and I went to work and I worked for a couple hours and when it was done when I went to bed I felt great. Awesome, no I felt like I did it. I did something. I did. The feeling of doing something is so much better than the feeling that you have to carry for hours of fucking off when you knew you're supposed to do something. 100%. I couldn't agree more. [1:34:01] And then by the way and in the end I did it. I did that work. And I'd show like when, you know, when we went to film the movie, and I've always drawn the storyboards for my movies, it's like it's a problem, but it's a thing that I do. It's my only process. It's funny because when I made soccer punch, I remember we were talking about it. And I think it was my script supervisor. She said, one day you're gonna like, not need to draw these drawings. And you're just gonna, you know, you're not gonna need to spend that time. And it's just funny that like in retrospect, it's like, obviously, I have to draw the drawings. Like it's like, let me, like that's my process. Now I realize there's no way around it. There's no,, you want a cheat. You know, like I wish I had a cheat where I didn't have to draw the drawings, where I'd be like, I don't know. It's gonna be fine. I think I can make it up on the day and it'll be good. And I do make it up on the day, but the truth is that process of drawing is the process that I vet a lot of the ideas in that drawing. It's not just drawing, It's writing as well. I'll change the script. I'll do whatever. I'll be like, no, no, because that doesn't make sense. Look, when I see it physically, I'm like, no, you can't, [1:35:08] that doesn't work. So that the re sort of construct it in the drawing. It's a little bit sometimes. When did you start doing that? I started doing it. I did it throughout. I did it 300. Did you learn it from someone? I had always drawn. I draw. I'd gone to school as for fine arts. I was always drawing shots. It's also a thing like in film school or when you're trying to think of something, movies take so much resource. To make a movie, you're basically an architect and you have to convince someone to build a building, and it's so much work to convince people to invest, to dig the, get all the cranes and the steel, it's like impossible. So drawing is like a little taste of it, right? So like I can make these are [1:36:02] the shots I want to make, right? So in a weird way, it's like it's it's it's it's drawing that beautiful sketch of the building. In a lot of ways, that's what it's going to be, you know? So you can get a feeling for it. And I think that's what it does for me. It satisfies the the impossible group activity that's going to require me to like the impossible group activity that's going to require me to like convince people, maybe that's why I love Fountainhead, you know, like it's like that process of like getting people to like believe in this thing that it's going to take resources and like so much crew and building and designing and all that other work that's down the road. It's the drawing that I think is a little bit of it. It's, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, to do. You know, it's incredible tool once I have it. [1:37:07] Did you do it for Watchmen? A hundred percent, my Watchmen books are insane. Did you draw Dr. Manhattan's dick? Of course. That's the question. Here's the question. Could you make that movie today? I don't know, would they allow? I mean, that's what's interesting, right? Someone once gave me a statistic of how much time Dr. Manhattan's cock is in the movie, like just full-frontally in the film, and I think it's a fair amount. I think it's the only studio film. It holds the record for most frontal nudity, male frontal nudity of any, you know. And it's kind of important. It's super important because he doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck. Obviously. Like he walks around like that. He's a god. He's a god. Like what the fuck? You can't deal with it. Get the fuck out of fucking vaporize you. Or I don't even care what you think. You're a cockroach. It's like, what cool thing to say. [1:38:05] Like, you know, like he's, he doesn't, like, you know what I mean? It's like, you really realize in the face of a god, like he does, I've walked across the surface of the sun. You know, he's like, I don't know. He was the coolest. He's the best. He's the coolest. And the transformation scene is fucking amazing One of my, we were just talking about the other day. Like one of my favorite sequences in any movie I've made is his, the birth sequence of Dr. Manette, the whole thing with the film, because it's Philip Glass did the music, right? We borrowed the music, because I had heard that music and I was like, it's gotta be this music. And we tried to like, Tyler Bates, who's an amazing composer, he tried, we tried, I go write me something that's better than this and we just couldn't do it. So we just had to license it from, and I had to send Philip Glass the sequence and he watched and he said, okay, it's cool. You can add the music. That's so cool. Yeah, because it's Glass, this music. [1:39:07] When he knows he's fucked. We built this giant oversized watch for those shots. And. Let's go to yeah, that's that Phil Glass. So good. That music is crazy. That fucking birth scene is insane. It's so good. It's so insane. It's so good. The skeleton in the hallway with the muscles screaming. Oh my god. I remember shooting that exactly like as if it was yesterday, yeah. We had this air cannon, we had a fire at that guy with the mop. Because when he, he like, I get hit with it. He was like over acting. I think we did like three takes. I was like, guys, guys, the first time he flew on the ground, I was like, okay, it's too much. It's good fun. Yeah, that's really cool. It's interesting because I think one of the things that we, after Justice League, I think one of the things that we really, as a group, as a family anyway, [1:40:00] because I lost my daughter over that. You know, because I lost my daughter over that, you know, she once my, you know, at the post side of Justice League, I lost my daughter to suicide. And you know, I left the movie famously, and then the movie went on, and then later we were able to like, you know, finish the movie sort of in the way that we had always hoped And I think the thing is that like The thing that I kind of sort of come back to when I look at that and when I look at the the movies is like you know we There these markers, you know the movies are really these markers of time that we Even though they sort of transcend time weirdly, you know, they exist beyond the time they were recorded, you know, at these weird, like they're in the computer as sort of these singular, like little, you press it, but then it runs and it's real and it's time and it takes time to enjoy it and time to like, you can't just say it, you have to watch it [1:41:01] and feel it again, you know, it's like a cool, so weird thing in that way. And I think that like, it just, the thing that you hope is that in the end, the markers meant something to people. And I think that that's, we've really fought around, because a lot of these mental health has been a big thing for my wife and I, since losing my daughter. And we've always tried. we've tried the best we can to support the fans, have done incredible, the fans of Rave's like over million dollars just to support AFSP, which is a, you know, a suicide, you know, against suicide in America, a foundation. And we've been like, just, it's been cool that the movies, these moments have like, now in retrospect, have like, a purpose, you know, and that they have like, that the fans have gotten this opportunity to kind of like, you know, join with us and kind of like, be with us to like, you know, and, you know, this, because it's a huge stigma, you know, [1:42:05] like people, nobody wants to talk about like, that they're having trouble, you know, and you know, this is because it's a huge stigma, you know, like people, nobody wants to talk about like, that they're having trouble, you know, that they're, that they're not okay. And I think that what we've been trying to do lately, as much as we can is like, say like, no, it's good. Like, you know, it's just, it's okay, you know, like it's not a sign of weakness, it's nothing, it's just, it's real, you know. It's part of being human. It's kind of a hundred percent part of being human. And I think that it was a, you know, we've all, it's an easy thing to kind of say that, you know, I just stress or I just like, you know, I'm good, I'm not depressed, I'm fine, and it's an easy thing to just try muscle through. I think that it's my hope anyway, as a family, the movies and our connection to the fans [1:43:00] and our connection to that cause has been really, really deep. And just watching this actually just started to be thinking about what the movies mean, like what is their legacy? What are they? And if they can do on one hand, they are the moments you see for me, Dr. Manhattan, Leonidas, whatever it is. But then on the other hand, they can be, there's this other narrative outside of the stories. What I was experiencing and what maybe think of is, what I was going through on that day when we filmed it, what I was struggling with, what I was struggling with, what I was trying to deal with is real. That's hard stuff. You know, that was just life being lumpy for us. You know, just trying to make a movie, leaving Canada, being away from the kids, just all that struggle. And then it's cool when, you know, [1:44:02] it's been cool for me that when the fandom and the movie, in the case of Justice League, they lined up where these people were like, no, we're not going to, we want, there's a movie out there that we want to see. And it's a round of struggle that we had as a family and all of it sort of came together. I always say people are like, the fandom was toxic or whatever. They were like, they were so angry to get the cut that they were like, I go also, also, they literally, people's lives were saved by the money that those kids raised. Like, literal, like, lives, real tangible lives were saved by that money. Those kids that you called, that you would say are these toxic fans, they're also responsible for the saving of lives. And that's just really, you have to acknowledge it because if you don't, like, you, you, in some ways, the legacy that they were able to create is like dismissed. [1:45:02] And I just, I won't, I, I can't. Well, that's just a reductionist view of things that people always like to apply the things that are controversial, especially when they're talking about your fans and saying something like they're toxic. That's such a dismissive thing. No, there's going to be some elements of any passionate, rabid fans that are going to be toxic because it means so much to them. And that's what you have to understand. The reason why they're behaving the way they're behaving, the reason why they're screaming is, first of all, they don't think they're being heard. And second of all, it means everything to them. These people that are deeply invested in your films and particularly things that have this sort of iconic history like the the Watchmen, or like Batman. I mean, these are very important things to people. 100%. It's like, to same way people are fanatical about sports teams, the same way they're fanatical about music. It's tribal, you know? It's tribal. 100%. Very, very tribal. So for you, when you have vision [1:46:01] and you have these storyboards and you have all this stuff that you and then you see something like in my opinion that Birth scene is one of the great masterpieces of that genre. It's a masterpiece It's like watching him be born and become dr. Manhattan is fucking amazing It's like I remember being in the movie theater watching going oh shit It was the perfect feeling is like what you want from these fantasy, escapism, graphic novel turn films. It was perfect. Yeah, it's cool. And even just like watching it and like, you know, the comment, like I never said that that the Superman was real in his America. And I said that God was real in his American. And if that doesn't give you like religious, like fear, then like you're not, then you're just not human. Like you gotta like, it's okay. It's okay to be scared. Right. Because it's fucking scary. Yeah, he's real. Yeah, it's a scary thing. It's a very scary thing, but it's all. It's cool. But when you have these ideas and you have all this work and and then it comes together. I mean, there's got to be insanely satisfying to watching a scene like that. It is. It's a cool, like, I guess for me, you know, like that, the process of like putting it together [1:47:11] and then like when you, when it literally lands and you, and it's what you drew and it's what you thought and the music and everything, like, lands, it really, it is, there is a like, I mean, I'm sure it's like anything is probably like the same thing like doing stand up or whatever, like when you, when like at all, when you're grooving, when you're in the groove with it and it's just happening, you're kind of surfing it and you're like, God, this is the feeling right here, right? Like, you can't acknowledge it in the moment, but you could feel it, it can push you, you know, like it's like a wave and you can feel it. That's how it is. For me, it's such a long process. It's not instant gratification. It's a very, it's like you really have to have head down mentality to get it to that position. But when I watch it that first time and it comes back [1:48:02] and I'm like, that's like fucking that's that's what we that's the why of it right there you know and I think that that keeps me going frankly and that little that little high is really it's really fun. Well that's the goal right the goal is to create that high and that high people leave a film like that that's like there's you'll do things that you wouldn't have ordinarily do like Like, you'll maybe you'll be inspired. Maybe you'll start working on something. Maybe there's certain things in- Sure. I think that's the beauty of creation in a lot of ways. It's just not just escapism, but it gives you, it's like a drug. It gives you this like boost of excitement that often leads to inspiration and inspires you to action. 100% 100%. I feel like that. If you can do that, then your movie is like, yeah, it's a huge success. If one guy comes up to me, like the thing about Man of Steel that I've always, that I [1:49:00] felt like is that Man of Steel is the movie that the people will come up to me and say like that movie changed my life like that movie like you know like I thought it was about me you know like I'm an immigrant like I just saw myself in in Superman it's like really like you know I was struggling at the time and when I saw it I like and I'm just be like man that's so cool like I'm I'm so grateful that like you know you felt that way about the movie. Because I don't, for me, it's like I'd send it off into the world. You think about Netflix, for instance, where you push a button and rebel moon, right? The Zeitgeist is crazy because like Rebel Moon so say right now there's like it's like almost 90 million views right 80 90 million people 90 million starts so or 90 million accounts said turn it on okay give or take they assume two viewers per screening right that's the kind of math. So you think if that movie was in the theater [1:50:08] as a distribution model, so that's 160 million account or people supposedly watching based on that math. So 160 million people at $10 a ticket would be, what is that math? I don't know, 160 million times 10. That's 1.6 billion. So like you look at the view numbers, you can use that rough. So more people probably saw Rebel Moon than saw Barbie in the theater, right? That's how crazy Netflix, that's how that's the distribution model that they've set up, you know. I was like, I was at this thing the other day and we were talking about Rebel Moon 2 and I said, and they were like, well, talk about Rebel Moon 1, I'm like, no. Like go fucking watch it. I know you have it at your house. [1:51:02] Like don't, like it's not like a theater situation. You could turn it on your phone right now and watch it right here if you wanted. That's how crazy it is. I'm like, it's so this model, this machine they built is really something else. It's really crazy if you think about it. Just like we were saying about the Formula One, they're able to insert something into popular culture that's so like a deep cut, like a documentary about Formula One, how else do you get that to the people? Right. No way. No way. You release that in a theater, five people go. Yeah. You know? Literally five people go. Yeah, but like put it on TV. And like a hundred million people see it. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. It's great. It's interesting because it shows that there was an audience there. It's just like to get someone to go out of their house and buy a ticket. That's just too much of a tough sell. It's a different model. It's a different model and it's weird how they think about it. When you think about it in those terms that you give the audience a, an alternative. [1:52:08] Like you give them a chance to like go on this, you know, like Rubble Moon's like, okay, that's new IP, right? No one knows what the fuck that is. What's Rubble Moon? Some space thing? I guess like, okay, well let's watch it. You know, it's that, the barrier for entry is so low that it allows, I think, what's cool is it allows a lot more original and weirdo stuff to exist because, you know, especially like you think about the director's cut of Rubble Moon, which will be, if it was in theaters, a very boutiquey concept, right? Very singular. It's like the animated version of Heavy Metal. Like, you know, the movie, I'm like, you know, I'm a huge fan, but like not a lot of people see it. Where I feel like this is a chance where like when this movie's released, the amount of people that can lay eyes on it is crazy compared to what it would be, you know, in another, [1:53:04] if I was releasing it, say theatrically or whatever. You know, it's a three hour movie, both of them are three hours. So it's much different, like both the PG 13s are two hours, right? That was one of the things that we talked about also. Like I wanted to movie short, PG, right? That's the, that's kind of the prerequisite where I'm like on the R-rated version. It's like, there's no rules. It's like no, there's no expectations, no rules, no nothing. You get that experience is a completely different experience. When does that one come out? It comes at the end of summer. The end of summer? I want enough time. Yeah, probably right in there. We don't have it exact date, but somewhere I wanted enough time so that I didn't want them to be too attached to the PG version. Because I love them. By the way, like I said, I'm proud of the PG version. I think it's fun. I think when you see Rebel Moon 2 on April 19th, you will see a very a war movie. It's [1:54:02] a fucking war movie is what it is. Like, because like the first thing is like, gather the team, second movie's a war movie. The R-rated version is just a different journey. Like you just get there in a different way and it's just more, like I said, it's just more weird. It's more boutique and more bizarre. And more like the original. More like heavy metal. Heavy metal, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More like a genre you could. You can't really pitch a studio a live action heavy metal movie right now. It's just not a I don't know how to do that. I don't know how you'd make that. You know, unless you are willing to do some sort of song of dance, you know, which is Which is, which I think that as a product, like I said, I'm proud of it and I think it works for what they've generated because basically for the same price as two movies, right? They get four movies, which is pretty, [1:55:01] that's pretty crazy, you know? Because the director's cuts for what, for the hour, additional hour and extra stuff that we did inside of each of those movies, each of the movies is an hour longer. What we did inside those movies with tone and with gourd and sex and all that stuff, within the same framework, you're getting too entirely to different movies. It's not like extended version, you know? Like that, I'd be like, okay, whatever. Like, oh, you did an extra weird little, here's the thing you cut out that you thought was too long. It's not like that at all. It's just a lot more, I don't know. It's just true to the vision. Yeah, it's got balls, it's got a lot of balls. And is that, I mean, that's got to be this thing where you're waiting. Like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I want you to see the real thing. I don't think, you know, it's a weird thing because I don't think, I mean, look, it's a, it's a, it's up to the viewers, you know, in a lot of ways. I don't want to like, by no means am I saying that you can't watch both, for sure you can. It's really how you do it. [1:56:07] I feel like if you've seen PG-13 Rebel Moon Part One, you should see PG-13 Part Two because they're really closely related. I mean, it's a direct, you know, like you, it could be one movie. You could cut them together literally and just keep going where it's chapter two, it's part two. It's like a, where I feel like that, in the R-rated experience, it's just like a different, they're both gonna release on the same day. So you can just fucking binge it, yeah. That's the way to do it, too, with Netflix. Yeah. One of the things I love about Netflix is when I don't find out about something until two or three seasons in She's in Xenomite. Yes, 100%. I can, yes, it's at play. 17 episodes. It's the same muscle that made me play Fortnite for like six months. Yeah, it's like, but if you have the time and a good series is bingeable, God. So sad. It's so satisfying. Yeah. I think we can do another. That's what I always say to my wife. I'm like, how do you feel? And she's like, I feel good. Are you sleepy now? Let's go. Have you ever thought about doing like a Netflix series, like something that's so big [1:57:08] that you couldn't do in one or two films? Yeah, yeah. We've talked about it a lot. Like, I mean, nobody wants Fountainhead, but that's what I wanted to do. You know, I pitched him Fountainhead because I'm a, you know, I'm a in this super adaptation of that book. And I just think it's, I think it would be amazing, but no one wants to make it because I think it's like, you know, it's Taboo, I'm ran as Taboo. Why is she Taboo? I don't know, she's Taboo among the intelligentsia because they think she's a fascist and they think the books are fascist propaganda, piece of fascist propaganda. I, that's not why I like the book. I'm like, look, you know, I happen to just like it because it's, to me, it's a direct comment on making a movie, right? It's a movie about an architect who won't make the buildings [1:58:00] that everyone wants him to make. And like, what the struggle he goes through to get the buildings made the way he wants to make them. Of course I like that. You know, like no movie director. I'm sure there's plenty of movie directors that don't like Fountainhead, but I just think that it just has, it says so much. I and Rand wrote Fountainhead in direct response to being noted on a script that she had written. And she had been studying this movie about skyscrapers and they told her, she kept submitting versions of the script and they kept noting her, noting her until it was unrecognizable. And then she was like, this is what happens to work. You know, it gets noted to disintegrate until the spears. So that's one thing that I've always wanted to do, but I don't know that I'm ever, I don't know that the world will allow that. I don't know why. It's one of those weird things where Iron Brand is, she's connected to like in cells or you [1:59:07] know like angry white guys or like finance people that are cruel. It's this very strange- Steve Jobs is favorite book by the way. Interesting. Interesting. That is interesting. But it's one of those things where it's like if you hear that like I'm an Iron Brand fan you're like oh okay. Yeah, you're one of oh, okay. Yeah. You're one of those guys. Yeah. And then it's like, yeah. Exactly. You know? True. True. But it's funny because, look, and I get, by the way, Alice Shrugged Fair, you know, you can play with that. That's a game that I, I mean, I'm pretty exclusively a fountainhead fanatic and for that also because it's melodrama too Like it's the most melodramatic thing ever. I mean as far as just like Why don't Netflix let you do that? I feel like they should I just I feel like I think it would have a huge again Better would work I think I know it would work. I know it worked. I know it worked Yeah, why don't fuck come on Netflix? Let's go [2:00:03] I'm a fan of letting artists like yourself do what is their vision. And I think people are often wrong about whether or not something is going to be successful commercially or whether or not it's going to resonate with a lot of other people. But that's the thing that no one knows. That's the awesome thing about movies is like, and why I'm not that worried about the AI influence over motion picture because there's obviously no formula no one can predict what's gonna be successful or they would have gotten rid of the directors and writers a long time ago you know like it's still there's alchemy there's still magic there's still like an impossible like you know all these elements come together and you're like, you feel something and you're like, what that was cool, fuck, you know, and it's the thing like, who knows, you know? It's like, you know, anything, you know, that you see that maybe if someone described it to you [2:01:00] in an abstract, you'd be like, that sounds dumb, like, I know. And then you sit and you watch it and you experience it moment by moment And you feel it. Yeah, it's fucking cool Well, it's also I think there's always going to be a thing that people Resonate with where they know it's made by a person They know that artists thoughts were involved in the creation of this thing This is the vision they worked tirelessly to produce this, and they put it out and they're proud of it here it is. And there's something about that, that you're getting to take in another human beings, group of human beings, creation. And that means something to us. And I think it's always gonna mean something to us. I think there's gonna be AI songs and AI movies and AI art, and it's gonna be cool, but it's not gonna be as cool because it's not gonna be from a human, from human beings. And I do feel like the fingerprints, the squishy fingerprints on the thing are the thing that make it unbelievably cool. [2:02:01] Chisel marks, I want the chisel marks. I love them, I live for them. Like to me, that's the bit. Like the best movies, my favorite movies, the best movies, or where you can feel the hand of the filmmaker. Yes. Like I want that. Yeah. I do not want the movie made by committee. Right. You know, you vote, when you go to a movie that feels like it was made in the boardroom, I feel dirty when I watch that. I don't like it. I don't want the cold hand of marketing on me like that. I want to, that's why I love the weirdness. I feel like in the end, all my movies are just a little bit weird in a good way, like 300, for whatever, like all the, you know, kind of, like coolness of it as far as like, yeah, let's go fight. It's still a weirdo movie, you know? Like the way it's made. You're putting a bunch of gay stuff in there? [2:03:00] Well, you know, I just, it's Frank's book, you know, I wrote it, I made what Frank wrote. Now, in retrospect, and we've been talking about doing a series where I really wanted to like introduce those concepts a lot more because I just feel like it's important in, if we go forward and do like more in the 300 universe, I would want to bring that part in and let people, which I think just shakes it up again. Like, you know like what like Right when you thought you yeah, right when you thought you knew like how to feel like I'm gonna make you feel like another way people have always said like you know 300 you know people have accused me of being like homophobic or whatever and I'm like I don't know They just somehow they feel like that because the Spartans weren't doing gay stuff Yeah Or because they, you know, there's that one line where he says, you know, philosophers and boy lovers. But like, I think that that he's clearly being cheeky, Leonidas, because like I, of course, and was hyper aware at the time that the reality of Spartan culture was, he's obviously out, he means philosophies and boy lovers not, [2:04:12] he's using that maybe as a directory comment, but when in reality he's a lover of men probably, you know? Absolutely. Absolutely. And so like I just think that like, and we talked about like as we go forward, I would love to just kind of stress. And I said like, look, 300 in some ways is one of the greatest movies ever made. Like it is incredibly male-centric, male-obsessed. Like you really feel like very strong male energy from the movie, even though there's a strong, you know, Gorgos, incredibly strong female character and we wrote her and made her like he doesn't decide to kick the person messenger into the well without getting approval from Gorgos, because you know, he's like, I'm going [2:05:04] to burn it down, is that cool? And she's like, go do it, you know, know he's like I'm gonna burn it down is that cool and she's like go do it you know and he's like all right here we go and you know he this is sparta's that guy and that's like that was that and I just think but I just think that like you know and maybe that was just me understanding doing the research and understanding the reality of Spartan culture that I really, that energy was in there because I just felt like it was important to make sure that there was this kind of visceral sexuality to the way the men actually interacted. I mean regardless of whether you acknowledge it, it's there. That would be, but it wasn't acknowledged really in the film. Like if anybody didn't know the history of the Spartans, they wouldn't know. No, no, but I just feel, I just mean from sort of an iconic standpoint as far as like the, the, the, there's just sort of indulgence in the male form, you know, is very, it's [2:06:02] not, it's not casual. Right. If you have to be fascinating to see if you did do a series and you had them behave the way Spartans actually did, the reaction. Yeah, I'd be interesting. I think that hopefully we'll find out one day. That'd be fun. Yeah, that would be fun. Yeah, it's just, I mean, like, look, in the end it's a weirdo show. Like it's fun to enjoy it. It's fun to fuck with it. That's what we do. You gotta tear it apart a little bit to take a look at it. You gotta know. When you choose things to do today, how do you go about doing? Do you just sit with an idea and bring it to studios? Do they come to you? How do you choose what you... I don't develop. I kind of have a bunch of stuff, I've always had a bunch of stuff that I work on and I just go, I wanna do this and then whoever wants to do it, then they we do it. And I mean... That's a nice position. It's an awesome position and I appreciate it and I don't take it for granted. [2:07:07] There's a few things like I've always been obsessed with Richard Bach. I don't know if you know like there's a he has this book called Illusion said I've owned for a long time that I've always wanted to do. You know, I grew up as a Christian scientist and I you know I it's not a book about like channeling. Well, Illusion's is about this it's a book about this guy flying his biplane around in in the 1970s, and he lands in a pasture, because like in the 70s, you, well, he was part of this sort of, he would fly his biplane around, land in a pasture, and then sell rides for $3, like for 10 minutes. And that's how he lived, right? He's just a gypsy pilot flying around the Midwest. And he happens to come across this guy who also is flying a biplane, who happens to be like a Messiah, who happens to be like this super spiritually advanced dude, who's on the run from, he doesn't wanna be the Messiah. He's like, he's like, it's called illusions, [2:08:02] the adventures of a reluctant Messiah. And it's about the two of them spending a summer together, just the one guy teaching him about like, it's a shit job being the Messiah. Like don't do it. Cause you know what happens to the Messiah is in the end. Right. Yeah. He goes, do you always have to die of violent death? And he goes, yeah, I don't think always. And he's like really? He goes, yeah, you know what? It's cool for like, he goes, what about just a quiet little ascension, you know, just on the side? And he's like, yeah, I don't think that, I don't think the universal let that happen, you know? So it's a cool, so it's this really cool. Again, it's like this sort of, it's again like a spiritual deconstructivist like Messiah's story. And I just like, I've always, it was like this book when I was growing up. I just, in a lot of ways, it's religious philosophy. It's this similar to Christian science. So I superimposed my religious beliefs onto this book and I felt like it kind of spoke to my doubts [2:09:02] and my questions about my religious upbringing and like what I thought for real. Like my brother, so my brother passed away when I was 13, he got in a car accident and he was like this incredibly spiritual dude. Everyone like anyone who knew my brother was like that guy was the guy, he was the man like you know Sam Snyder was like among his peer group was like he was like, you know, in retrospect, like he was in a Tai Chi and like, just like super cool 70s dude, right? Like just kind of look like Billy Crude up, right? Like Billy Crude up from like, you know, almost famous, right? Imagine that guy, like, but just like, the coolest guy, you know, smoking dope, just being cool as hell. So when he passed away, I always thought like, okay, my brother just like tired of this world and went looking for another one, you know, like he was just like on a spiritual journey. But then like, when you see, when you're 13 and you see like what that event though does to your family, [2:10:03] your mother and father, your sister, all of their friends, the devastation that they feel. And these are people that I believed, believed in the religion that I believed in. And the pain, it made me really go like, what the fuck is this? What's real what like what are we supposed to believe? You know it really tested me and I think that illusions that book in retrospect And I won't spoil it or I won't tell you what happens on the last page of the book But it it kind of speaks to where I was and I think so it's always resonated with me and I'm friends with Richard Bach. I became friends with him and his wife is constantly texting me like when are we making illusions and I was like soon soon she's like I found the planes you know so it's cool it's cool like we have the planes we can make it anytime so yeah standing so those are kind of that's how we develop like it's all these things that I have you know that are kind of close to me that I might always constantly [2:11:05] say and what about that we should maybe it's time. That's awesome dude. Well listen it's been great to talk to you. I really appreciate what you've done. I love how excited you are about filmmaking. Not sure. You've done some awesome shit man. You should be proud. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I love it. Look man I'm a fan of the show. And, you know, it's an honor to come on and talk to you. Thank you. It's honor to have you. Cheers. All right. Bye, everybody. Thanks, everybody.