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Homer Hickam, Rocket Boys
Steven Pressfield, The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles
Willie Nelson, David Ritz, It’s a Long Story: My Life
Pleasure to meet you. What's happening pleasure to be here Joe? Thanks for having me. My honor. I love your music I got introduced to you by Duncan We were in the green room of the mother ship and Duncan goes you got to hear this and he puts on family ties I went damn that's a good fucking song and then we played two country roads And then we just got on a roll and then like the whole night we played your music. Oh, yeah, dude It's awesome. He was telling me that, you know, he showed my music to you. He said normally you don't like his recommendations. But he said, he'll go a little email while you're. Yeah. He said that you dug that and I was like, holy shit man, it's not something. I, uh, dunking was really cool. I was like, I was at Apple Studios in Nashville doing like this live session thing with him when he, he meshes me on Twitter and asked me to be on his podcast. And like that made my, my freaking week. I was like, Holy shit, Duncan Troublesseld likes my music. That's so cool. And then we were doing his podcasts and afterwards is like, yeah man, I showed you music to Joe and he really liked it. I was like, fuck yeah. So yeah, shout out to Duncan. I appreciate him doing that. Now, Duncan's a man. He is one of the most unusual people that I've ever met my life. There's not another one like him. Yeah, he's cracking me up. Yeah, he's a one of one. That's a one of one. When he moved there and It was just you know during the pandemic. He got bleak there. You know the jobs were all tried up Everything was fucked everything closed down and you said crime was crazy It's like Asheville is like per capita in the top 10 of Crime in the country. Oh, holy shit. I'm in I'm gonna make that up now Crime in the country. Oh holy shit. I'm in I'm out of made that up. No, sure I mean if that's the fact Appreciate Duncan told me that but he's like dude. There's so much fucking crime everywhere everyone's unmasked You're dunking impersonations way better mine, but [2:02] We we recorded the album there. Oh no we were there for two weeks last January and It's like sleepy this time of year. I guess. Their tourism is at its lowest in January. And dude, I loved it. It's gorgeous. I love the town and, you know, I don't know. It had some, some homeless and stuff like that, but damn, I didn't know that. I went there back in to, I think I did a gig there in 2015 or 16 somewhere around then. I was like, God think I did a gig there in 2015 or 16 somewhere around then. I was like, God, damn, what a great town. Just a perfect size, not too big, cool, artsy, beautiful scenery. It's like the mountains. Yeah, I dig it. We played the Orange Peel four or five weeks ago and it felt like a hometown show. Mmm. Yeah, it's, it's a stronghold there in the mountains. Duncan grew up there and he said when he was growing up there, uh, there were so many cows that had magic mushrooms in their shed that the farmers started putting some sort of anti-fungal thing in the cows [3:02] food so that it would repel the fungus from the cow shit. I was like, how say, Tannik? People are going out in their meadows trying to harvest those bad boys. He said it was everyone. What is this? It was up in April, so about a year ago. What does this have to do with Epstein? That's just a picture that's on this. What are you saying? Turistown Asheville rocked by violence in the wake of defund police movement, rolls out planned to combat crime spike. Yeah, so there was a big ass crime spike. Damn. Yeah, he said it was crazy. He said, but that's the saddest fucking shit about like small rural communities. Is when everything dries up, there's nothing. There's nothing there. There's no other jobs. There's no other place to go there's it's just if you have a small population of humans and they all live together If the industry dries up a business is shut down if things go under like everyone's fucked like people are so reliant Yeah, that's happening in my hometown right now [4:01] What's your hometown? Morrigan town West Virginia and it's you, it has its ups and downs and right now It's definitely in a bit of a down we had a big pharmaceutical company that was based out of West Virginia called Myland and the founder passed away a little over a decade ago, so then when that happens, you know, it goes into folks that didn't build it themselves and And when that happens, you know, it goes into folks that didn't build it themselves and they ended up selling to an Israeli company. And once that happened, they shut down those headquarters in Morgantown, where it always been. I think that was 1200 jobs in a town of 26,000 people in the city limits. So you imagine how many people that affects in the big circle, then COVID. Which that happened during COVID. So you all said COVID. So our main street, it's called High Street, and it's like one third closed down. And it used to be all open. Fuck. Did you ever see Roger in me, the documentary? [5:01] So Michael Moore, documentary, it's the first one that he did, it's his best one, I think, and it's about Flint, Michigan, and it's about what happened when the car manufacturers all moved out of the country. And it's the saddest fucking documentary, man. It's just they just up and pulled the factories just so they can make more money, having people work for cheaper, up and pulled the factories just so they can make more money having people work for cheaper and the whole town just collapsed. Collapsed. It's just, it's so sad. One of the sad things is just a lady that has a sign says, bunnies for pets or food. Damn. Yeah. You want to think that like you're committed to selling bunnies as a pet. If it's a you know Imagine that little puppy. We're showing Jamie's getting a puppy at French Bulldog and Jamie trying to con me into taking one of them and Might work. I did a dirty trick I said I said a video of this puppy to all my daughters and my wife [6:02] So we might have a puppy and it was definitely like Jamie knew that was gonna happen to Know that but but the moment I emailed it to the daughters. I was like they're gonna go crazy But imagine what's that? There it is right there holy shabby's buddies pets or meat for sale That's something you don't see in the US every day. It's a dark, dark, you know. Look at her. She's skinning it right there. Yeah. Like she's on alone. Yeah. It's a and she kills it right there too. On, you know, she's holding it and cuddling it and then she snaps its fucking neck and cooks it. It's just you would imagine that like those puppies they like Jamie if they said you could keep this as a pat or you could eat it. Like, dude, you see it in Flint. We play there once a year and our shows are great and the people are great. But man, compared, I see all the towns across America and that, that one's dark. Different. They haven't done jack shit to fix that water either. [7:01] I don't think they fixed that water at all. Have they? I don't think so. Remember when I'll Obama went there? That was a long time ago man, that's two presidents ago. I remember seeing videos of people, you know, lighting on fire. Well that is from the, that's fracking. That's from that movie Gasland. And that's different. That get fooled. Yeah, well they might have did it in Flint too, but there are places in the country where you can light your fucking tap water on fire. Unreal. Yeah. And they say there's been some of that that existed even before fracking. It's kind of confusing, because you don't know how much the fracking industry's like, oh, that's always been here. Look at not concern yourself with this. Yeah. There's no longer an issue. There's a little bit of a contamination, but look at the bright side. Yeah, you never know. I just take tap water and fuel your car and you use it as a candle. Yeah, you can never take, you know, when somebody's business is at stake, [8:02] you gotta kinda, you gotta get some different points of view on those types of things. Yeah, it's very difficult to know what the fuck is actually going on. But overall, it seems like fracking. This is a lot of fucked up shit. Updated says they've got their lead levels below the federal threshold for like the sixth or seventh year in a row. Oh. Okay, but what does that mean? What's the federal I don't like that right? I don't like that term federal threshold on there But what it mean wouldn't it how much would it cost think about how much money they spend on Ukraine? How much would it cost to provide every family? In Flint with a filtration system like a real hardcore filtration system that provides them with absolutely clean water Be a guarantee you wouldn't be a hundred and fucking seventy billion dollars or whatever we've sent over to Ukraine. Yeah, be a lot less than that. No, I'll less than that. But not a goddamn thought of it, not a conversation about massive filtration systems like there's a way to do this. We've got to provide every family. [9:01] It's a small, it's fun, it's not that big. Mm-hmm. Yeah's a small, it's fun. It's not that big. Yeah, I mean, just over 40,000 households. Yeah, that's not that big, man. That is not that big. $1,000 a piece. Yeah. How much is that? Yeah, I guess that's probably if it was a thousand, right? That'd be pretty easy. I feel like it probably used to be way bigger than that too. I bet. You know, that's not that's not much bigger in Morgantown, you know, with all the car industry stuff that used to be there. It was causing a thad hundreds of thousands. Have you ever seen videos of Detroit from the 1950s and 60s? Yeah, yeah, it's like Boomtown. Detroit was one of the biggest fucking most wealthy cities in the world, in the world. And now you got trees growing through houses, because the houses have been abandoned. Top gear that show they went there. I think it wasn't top gear at the time. I think it was when they did the other show and did it for Amazon. What was that called when they went over to Amazon? The... Oh, I know what you're talking about. [010:01] I can't remember. I can't remember. But what they did was they bought a house for like $500. And they were like hanging out in this house while they were staying there. It's like, you get a house for 500 bucks. Like what? I looked into that one time. It's a little bit of a loophole. When you're buying it for 500 bucks, at least the way it was when I read it. You're making a commitment to get it up to code within like seven days or something like that. You have a very limited amount of time. You don't have to do it. You don't have to. But yeah, this is your spending $60,000 on top of that to get it up to code. Oh, really? Like you're buying it for 500. But you're taking commitment to fix it. You get I think Mike Epps just fixed up a whole block of houses. Not there but in Gary, Indiana or outside of Indy. No shit, shout out to Mike Epps. That's awesome. Just like that, just like you bought a bunch about the whole block. Fuck yeah, that's awesome. I heard Detroit has a bunch of manufacturing space. It's kind of a good opportunity for somebody. Somebody's got something that they want to make. It's kind of a good place to go and get after it. We've, I think the last time we were there, we opened for Zach at one of those theaters [011:09] there, but we were kind of chilling around downtown. And it seems to be a little bit on the up and up in some parts of the downtown there by the baseball stadium. You know, and then compared to years past, like, you know, a while back when I'd been there before, it seemed like maybe it's taking a turn for the better. Yeah, there's a little bit of a resurgence, there's a resurgence of like small businesses being established there. I know Shinole is out of there. You ever heard of that company Shinole? Yeah, American watches. They make watches, they make a bunch of different stuff, leather goods, cool stuff. They make like really good like messenger bags and that kind of shit like real cool American made stuff. So you know, that's nice. It's nice that things like that are happening where people do recognize and if you drive down and there's so much area that is available. There's so many buildings that are just completely abandoned and the windows are all shattered and covered spray paint and graffiti, but the [012:04] bones are still there. You know, if somebody wanted to rebuild it. Yeah, if you got a good idea, and some manufacturing space, that would be a good spot to go. Back in the day, during the, you know, the car boom, like, Cantno-Hio, Detroit, Toledo, Flint, there was a lot of like, folks from the mountains that were moving up there and getting getting those jobs and I think that was the hillbilly highway It's like that where that come that turn comes from and my grandparents were one of those They moved up to Cantina, Ohio my granddad was working for Ford and The place where we're from West Virginia is Super country like very rural. I think there's 4,000 people in the county now and pen on the county and there's this this local guy I can't remember his name but my my gray grandparents had an old like store and where you could kind of go and you get your boots and your [013:01] Milk and your eggs and everything and this one little general store and It was a hangout too and this guy was like coming in the store and he's like I'm going to destroy it. I'm telling you what I'm going to get a job. Head it up there and he's talking about it for months and months and then finally he's like I'm going and he gets in the car and goes. Everybody's like there he goes so and so and then two weeks later he rolled back into town, he never made it, he couldn't find his way. He couldn't, couldn't, you know, able to read a map well enough and just gave up and turned around and just coming home after two weeks. That's hilarious. Just gave up on that dream. Boy, imagine people today trying to use maps. Isn't that funny that like being able to read a map kind of went away? Yeah. When I was a kid, not a kid. When I was 20, well first of all, when I first started doing stand-up comedy, I would use one of these things like a legal pad and I would get a phone call, you know, and then go, hey, we got a gig for you and here's your direction. You got a pen? [014:01] I'm like, okay. And you're like, okay, you're gonna take the 405, to this, to that, to the dine, to the fucking, you're gonna take a ride on this road, go two miles down the highway, you're gonna find a building. Like, wow. Oh my god. And that's how we did it. So I used to have like a folder where I had the directions to all these different road gigs that And that's how I got around and then when I came to California, I got a Thomas guide. I was like, wow, I'm in the fucking future. You know, I got a whole book of maps and everybody had a Thomas guide. And you would, I remember first time Bill Burr visited my house. He had a Thomas guide. He figured out how to get to my house with the Thomas guide. I gave him the address and he showed up with a fucking map book on his front seat. Unreal. Those are different now. You know, when I was a I was a little kid and on our family vacations my brother, my older brother would be like he would he would read the map and like give the directions to usually my dad was driving. But yeah, by the time I started like working, you [015:03] know, thank God for that GPS. I can't imagine doing that, like trying to find my way, because hell, I mean... First time I had GPS, it was like 98? Something like that? 98 or 99. It was like a CD-ROM that you stuck in the CD player. I had a little flip up screen. I thought like this is the shit. was like a CD-ROM that you stuck in the CD player. I had a little flip up screen. I thought like this is the shit. I had an Acura NSX and a little screen would pop up and you put in the CD and it was only for Los Angeles. Yeah. And it was real slow. Well, real slow and shitty, but I was like, dude, I'm in a James Bond movie. Yeah, 98, that's some top shit right there mission impossible. Yeah, I'm fucking Following the directions on I had a little thing that sat on the roof that was like the GPS thing That would like read the sky and then it would somehow another communicate with this map that was on my my screen Damn, yeah, do you ever miss gigs back in the map days when you're you know, I was pretty good at it [016:03] And pretty good at it. Yeah, I was pretty good at it. And they were pretty good at giving solid directions to retarded comedians. Like, yeah, that's the thing. It's like reading that map and the type of folks that are comedians and musicians, we're not the most capable always. We're real similar. Musicians and comedians always seem to like get along real good. We have like real similar sort of Just sensibilities. Yeah dealing with a lot of clowny shit a lot of clowny shit a lot of fucking irresponsible Impulsive people a lot of a lot of substances a lot of a lot of chaos a lot of fun a lot of rebels You know, you know pursue that dream if you've got, you know, a law degree and, you know, a future with the firm and, you know, everything's lined up and you got your 401k. I was like, you got to be a wild person. You got to have a screw loose. 100%. Somewhere there's got to be a screw loose or, you know, there's some's some major Some major issue whether they express it or not and but that's how the great stuff comes [017:11] Like look at jelly roll. How do you you don't get a jelly roll? With with a guy who's had like a perfect education and well-rounded lifestyle and you don't get that beautiful Amazing soulful music and that incredible human being you don't get that and I don't get that beautiful, amazing, soulful music and that incredible human being. You don't get that. And I don't know him, but just listening to him talk. I don't think even 15 years ago, Jellie Roll could be who he is now, if it would have happened earlier, because he kind of jokes about, like he got the best new artist of the year and he's like 39 or whatever, and he was kinda joking about that, but, you know, for him, the time, that is the right time for him. Yeah. And, you know, it's just, yeah, that all of a sudden, it aligned perfectly with a guy like Jelly Roll, especially in country, right? We see a guy like Jelly Roll with face tattoos and like gold teeth and [018:06] shit like what? Yeah. That guy? 20 years ago you never see that but you know, times are different in a good way and a lot of good ways in a country. A lot of great ways in all music in art in general. It's like these communities are sort of colliding with each other and you get in these sort of interesting mixtures of people. Yeah, you got Post Malone. Yeah. In the same country, you're covering Surgell Simpson and stuff like that. And it's like, fuck yeah. Exactly, exactly. I watched his, sorry, the NPR tiny desk concert. Did you see the, dude, it's amazing. Did you see Scar faces? No. Oh my god is incredible incredible scar face from the ghetto boys No, it's a tiny desk concert fucking amazing amazing Just like he did it he altered the music to fit the vibe of this tiny desk thing You you you a ghetto boys fan? [019:01] I didn't listen to him do when I was a kid ghetto boys fan and I didn't listen to him. Dude, when I was a kid, ghetto boys with a shit. When I delivered newspapers, I said delivered newspapers. I drive around listening to ghetto boys. Yeah. He was on here before talking about playing to half million people. Was that one of those? No, no, no, no, no, no, that was B-Real. That was B-Real and Cypress. I remember hearing that. Yeah. I remember hearing that. I remember, I'll never forget that when he was telling that story. I have a million people at a music festival. That was Woodstock. Yeah, half a million people. Someone stole his shoes. He was a crowd surfing. Someone stole his sneakers off him. When you're playing a half a million people and you lose your shoes, one over. That's the price you pay. Just getting to experience something that's crazy. How many people have ever experienced that? I know, right? That's gotta be nuts, man. That's gotta be nuts. This is something nuts about just enormous crowds, but enormous crowds vibing to your music has to be crazy. [020:00] That has to be really... that has to be so surreal. There is a, um, there's a video that my bandmates were showing me from, I think it was like that 90s woodstock that might have been the same one, maybe a different day, but it is like Metallica or corn. I think it was corn. And that's see if people is, it looks like a sea with all of them like jumping up and down. Oh wow. And the video is profound. Like it, it was incredible. I don't know how to, I don't, I can't believe nobody died. Yeah, that's, in that with all those people moving. But Dave Chappelle and I did the Tacoma dome once in, uh, that's, look once in... That's so crazy. Look at that. Oh my god, it doesn't look like water. Wow. Look at that. Wow. By the way, that's a really good way to get brain damage. [021:02] All right, got some of mine. I never used to think of that until I talked to my friend Mark Gordon, who's an expert in traumatic brain injuries. And he's like, yeah, you're not supposed to be bouncing your head around like that. I got a sub doing that. I do that in my shows. And he's a stuffed one. I think you legitimately give you brain damage. I'll start getting punchy and I never thought. Yeah, be back. Soccer players get it, man. Soccer players get CTE from head and the ball. A soft ass ball bouncing it off your head over and over again. We have your brain damage. Yeah, jet skiers. You get it from jet skis. Bouncing on waves all the time. Bang, bang, bang, bang. You get brain damage that way, which is nuts, hard to believe. I need to start rethinking my life show a little bit. I do that a little too much. You know, it's not like, you know, just feel it, but yeah, maybe I ought to stop doing that. Well, I was gonna say about Dave Chappelle and I, we did the Tacoma Dome, which is 25,000 people in Tacoma, Washington, and we sold out the Tacoma Dome, and it was like the highest to 10 we broke the attendance record and we're backstage and [022:10] The crowd is just nuts and and Dave sitting there would have cigarette. He looks at me and he goes Not a whole lot of motherfuckers get to do this Yeah, it percentages of people that ever get to experience that no, it's so small and you guys do it with just a microphone That's that's great like Damn, I'm one of the least funny people you ever meet. So like, seeing folks that can play in arena just because of your jokes and shit, like, and your ability to tell a story and the timing and the punchline, that's a, that's something I can never do. Never, ever do. I have none of that. No talent for that at all. Yeah, it's a thing that you either want to do and have to learn how to do it or you don't. But it's not outside of, there's a lot of funny people, they just don't do it. It's not a thing that, it's, but it's a long journey. [023:00] Like to get good at standup, it takes like 10 years. Takes 10 solid years of constantly performing and every comic will look at a comic Like you did like someone to tell you like how long you been doing it two years like CNA ears like this like a thing like everybody looks at comics that haven't been doing it any more than 10 years How good is he you know? What's he got the guy good is he? You know, what's he got? He got a good solid 15 minutes. Like, what happens? It does he fold up when, you know, like, what's his bits like? Do they have any depth to them? What's the timing like? Is there any misdirection? Is there any, like, what is the level that they're at? It takes so long. It takes so long. But it's not like singing. Like you can either sing or you can't sing. You know, like you're a God-given voice. Like there's people that just can fucking sing, man. They can sing. Like they just have this quality to their voice and they're just born with it. [024:00] That's pretty amazing. I don't have that. Yeah, whatever that is. That's the whole reason I can do it I'm doing because I didn't pick up guitar and it tells 20. Really? Yeah, so it's I got a late start and you know I'm not a great guitar player. I'm still very much like an intermediate guitar player, but you know I was fortunate enough to I didn't grow up singing. So I just found out that I could sing in my early 20s and then realize how did you find out? Like what what were you doing before you started doing music? I was at West Virginia University and I wanted to play football, but I wasn't good enough. That I had no God-given talent to be good enough. And when you want something really bad, you know, that was like my my first dream that died, you know died. Once I let that go, I had all this free time. I was like, I need to, because I've always hunted and fish, but when you're going to the class every day, I need more things to fill my time up. I was watching the Grammys in 2011, and the Aver Brothers played. [025:02] Then they played with Bob Dylan and Monford and Sons. I just remember watching them being like, man, that's incredible. Maybe I should pick a guitar up. That'd be something I can do productive in the evening. So that's how I got started. And then it was about a year later in 2012 when I actually could like string some chords together. And then I started singing. And then I started figuring it out. So you initially just started doing it just for fun? Yeah, yeah. It was just going to be just another like just something to get into and you know something a productive hobby. You know, just kind of looking for some more things because since I gave up you know trying to play football it's what's going to happen. All that time I used to spend working out and trying to make that happen, it became free time. Because, you know, so I just had to try to fill that time up with something because I just didn't wanna sit around and bullshit with my friends all the time. And, you know, so that's how I got into it. [026:02] Was there a thing that made you realize that you could do this professionally? Was there a moment we figured it out? Mm-hmm. I got, I had a very unique first gig. So I was on the promised scholarship at West Virginia. And that was this thing for in-state kids. If you had good grades, you'd go to school for free at an in-state university. So I was grades, you'd go to school for free at an in-state university. So I was at WVU going to school for free, because of my grades. And they had a study abroad program. And my junior year, I was like, I'd never been overseas. And I was like, yeah, that would be, I'd like to experience that. So I went in to the counselor's office and they kind of laid out some different options and I got a finance degree in WVU and there are four places I could go. There's Hartfordshire, England, Bamberg, Germany, Tartu, Estonia, and Hong Kong. So they kind of like were telling me all about the different schools I ended up landing on [027:02] Tartu, Estonia as the place to go to. So I went over there and had brought my guitar and I just continued practicing a little bit in the evenings just for fun but I had six flatmates. So there was no way that I could go anywhere and not be heard by them, you know, in our place. So I was a little uncomfortable with that because I wouldn't use to people listening to me at all or singing in front of anybody, but I didn't want to like not play the guitar for half a year. So I kept doing it and then when I was over there, we went to a show in one night there in tar two and there was this club. in Tarte 2 and there's this club, it's like a little like 150 cap room maybe 200 and we go to the show and one of my roommates after I left had brought taken my guitar and after the show was done he ran up on stage and for some reason the mic was still on, his name was Balaam and he ran up there and said, Charlie, come play a song. I was like, fuck, no, no way. [028:06] And then he got the room to start chanting, Charlie, Charlie. And then I'm like kind of calculating my head, the pros and cons of like bitching out or just falling through. And I was like, at this point, it'd be way worse if I bitched out and didn't go up and play one. So I went and played like a song. Was it an original song? No, no. I hadn't started writing then. Didn't have any aspirations yet to do to do this professionally. What song did you play? Probably country roads. I probably only knew like six songs. And I was like shaking in my jeans just so nervous. But I got through it and then I got a Facebook message. The next that was a Friday. So on Monday I got a Facebook message from a fashion designer there in town and she asked if I could play for her fashion show that Friday and I said, yeah sure, hell yeah she goes, can you feel 20 minutes? I'm like, I can feel 20 minutes, yeah. [029:00] So I showed it up and it was at this, it's like this this cafe with like one of those court yards in the middle of the building. You know what I mean? You've never been in a place like that. And I had these two French doors. And they had the sound all hooked up and a couple of my American buddies that were over there with me came with me and they got me set up and then it ended up being a lingerie fashion show. So I got paid. Is this it right here? That's it. Oh Jamie found it. Oh Shit Jamie don't embarrass me By the way, this is a song you could fucking never write today Yeah, hey little girl is your daddy home? Did he go and leave you all alone? Different times. I got a bad desire. Ooh, I'm on fire. What the fuck? Tell me now baby. So that's my first gig. I made 150 Euro. Wow. [030:00] And as they go in and out, they come out with less clothes on each time. What a strange gig a lingerie fashion show there's little kids there Mm-hmm people are hanging out like fashion shows are so strange. Yeah, they're so strange So I made a hundred and fifty euro for for doing those 20 minutes and I was like this is the easiest work I've ever done in my life. I'm gonna keep doing this Wow, so when I'm going to keep doing this. Wow. So when I came back to West Virginia, I started singing bluegrass music at WVU and bars and stuff around town in the state. Did you get any more gigs while you're in Estonia? I think I did. I think if I remember right, I might have played at that cafe a couple more times, maybe Max, but it was really when I came back to us Virginia where I started like. So that gig that we saw right there, that gig was the thing that started the spark. Yeah, it started. Wow. What year was that? It was 2013. Wow. There it is. June 17, 2013. Yep. [031:01] Wow. Wow. Yeah. And that's how it began. And you know, I sucked, you know, because mind, you know, I just picked up the guitar and I was just a beginner in, you know, in the whole business. And it took until 2017. Oh, Jesus. Oh, Jamie, you're embarrassing me now, bud. This is you make me blush. No Come on man, that's great. Don't be embarrassed. It's like if you're watching yourself in an open mic Oh, yeah, oh I've seen those videos Come on man, this is great. Don't be embarrassed. It's like if you're watching yourself at an open mic. Oh yeah. Oh, I've seen those videos. Yeah. So it took me until 2017, 2018 to find my voice. When did you start writing your own original songs? 2014. Okay, so after your first gigs. [032:01] Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah. I was playing covers and singing like bluegrass and stuff. Had you had any ideas about writing songs? Had you ever written any lyrics or had any lyrics in your head or anything like that? I started trying to do it when I really made the decision that I wanted to do this. And I was like, well, you can't do it without writing your own music. So then I started doing that and that was really bad For a long time, you know, well, do you remember what your first song was that you wrote? I can't remember what the first one would have been I know I remember the third one because the third one wasn't terrible and it was actually one that I put it on the new album for you know just kind of I the new album for, you know, just kind of, I thought it'd be cool to put it on there. That is cool. So like mine. But yeah, most of them were really bad and, you know, just started working on it and figuring it out. What is your writing process? Do you sit with a notebook? Do you just start playing the guitar and start singing? [033:02] How do you do it? Yeah, sit with a notebook and that voice memo. And then when I'm out and about though that notes and voice memo app, I have them separate on my phone. And I'll jot down ideas, hum melodies into it. And I try to stay pretty consistent with it and show up every day and put some thought into it in front of the notebook to get my stuff. And so do you wait for an inspiration to come to you or just sit down? No, I sit down even if I got nothing just because if I do that then I'll find myself maybe going a whole month without you know. Years ago I listened to Jason Isboh was given given some advice on it. He said treat it like a job, like consistent. Show up to the notebook consistently. Show up every day even when you're not inspired. That'll make your own look. Have you ever read Stephen Pressfield's The War of Art? [034:01] I did. Yeah, I read that last year of the year before. Um, he sent us a box of those if you want one. Hell yeah. A signed copy. Fuck yeah. Yeah, he sent us a box of signed. I think I probably sold more of those books for him than anybody alive. It's a great book. It is. I don't remember who recommends it to me originally. I probably mentioned it on the podcast and I forgot who it was, but it's one of the best books in terms of like a practical guide to creativity because you really genuinely have to treat it like you, like he considers it the muse. Like there is a muse and you contact this muse and if you do it deliberately and you do it with respect and you do it every day. Those ideas will come. And they do. If they really do come like it's a muse, like I think there's a reason why. Yeah. If you don't, for me, if I don't show up to the notebook and put my time in and come up with a bunch of junk, yeah, I don't think I would have as many of the [035:04] days where a beautiful line or a melody would just pop into my head. It's like you're just kind of laying, you're like paving the way for those, more of those sparks. That's the same with comedy. I think it's the same with literature. I think it's the same with everything. Do you know the term museum comes from the term muse? Yeah, that's what it's from. I had no idea. What a museum is is a place where the muse's creations can be exhibited. I had no idea. Not wild. I just found that out recently. But it makes sense. And there's quite a few words apparently that come from the origin of the idea of the muse. Yeah. But that's what a museum is. Make sure that's true. Well, pressure is true. I'm pretty sure it's true. Makes makes sense. Totally makes sense. I mean museum. What does this say? The Greek form museum meant the seat of the muses. There you go. A designated philosophical institution or place of contemplation. Yeah, but it makes sense. You know, the muse you [036:02] address the muse, the, gives you these ideas. You create these things and you exhibit them. We were driving down from Dallas this morning listening to Willie Nelson's autobiography. He was talking about almost being a mouthpiece for the gods. He was saying that all the songs are something I'm paraphrasing, but it was like something along the lines that all the music that he's ever written was in him before he was born. And it was just, you know, his task was to just connect with that, like what was already inside him. He was saying that his grandmother told him that all that music inside of them was given by God. It was an interesting idea on it. It's a good way to look at it if you just think that there's an endless well of inspiration and creativity that's inside you. The God gave you this thing and you just got to just [037:03] keep working and get it out of you and then give it out to people. Yeah and that train of thought helps you when you go when you're in a rut. Yeah. If you need to tell yourself this is what I'm put here to do. This is what I'm meant to do so I'm gonna do it. Yeah. And you know I found myself been 2022 that was me. I was in a rut because just a lot of circumstances in my life and my work life had new things in it, new pressure that I was having a hard time writing because before I just been so free and didn't have people depending on me and all kinds of expectations and just being reminded by my father and all about you know this is what you're put on this earth to do this is what you do best this is what you got you to the show in the first place just do that don't worry about all the other stuff you can't control. There's a lot of that with creative peoples is this a sort of wrestling match in your mind about you know, anxieties, what you desire, [038:07] what you hope to happen, you know, where is it going, what's the future, how's it all gonna unfold, do I have it, my run dry, do I have any more songs left inside of me? Yeah, you know. I'm not gonna lose it all. Yeah, am I gonna just start sucking? Am I gonna fall off? Is nobody gonna like me anymore? That's a big one. And that was happening to me. And it was February 22. We got off tour and labels started coming into the picture for the first time. Before that, I never had to worry about that. And then I had a band that was dependent upon me. And they'd given up their jobs, like they'd gone all in so they have You know their livelihoods were dependent upon it and it was it was it took me a Lot of work to to shake all that off and get back to like that that like clean slate of mind of just writing because I love doing it [039:01] And that's what I'm put here to do Hmm because I love doing it and that's what I'm put here to do. Hmm. Yeah, that, that if you can have like a mindset that you could call upon like an understanding or calling, that's in your mind that you know, like matter how much confusion there is, I mean, how much doubt things go sideways, you're not real sure, just stay on the path, just stay on that path. And then you'll have those dark moments, but then you come out of it. And then we go all right again, all right again. Yeah, and once you go on through something like that, it makes you a lot better on the other end. Because when you see it again, you're like, oh, I know what this is. Yeah. I'm just going to keep working right through it. And we'll be fine. We're going to be just fine. That's why like heartache for teenagers is the hardest thing ever. You know, you get dumped when you're 15. You're like, the world is over. It's devastating. It's fucking devastating. [040:02] If I could go back and talk to myself as a teenage kid. Oh my God, I have so much advice. I would have so much advice, but I wouldn't listen anyway. My young me was an idiot. He went and listened. Yeah. I don't like, dude, you're gonna be fine. No half to marry her. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. She's the one for me. I'm lost without her. You fucking idiot. You just listen to too many stupid songs. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. Life is, life is short, but it's also pretty long. And sometimes young folks, they lose sight of just how much time there is ahead of them for who knows what's going to come their way. There's a song lyric in that. Life is short, but it's also pretty long. Because that is 100% true. Yeah, definitely a good theme for a song there. Yeah. Life is short but it's also pretty long because that is 100% true. Yeah definitely a good theme for a song there. Yeah life is short. It really is very short but it is fucking long. The learning process is long. Yeah it's long. Just figure out life. It's a slodge Every day every day. It's a psych a little more information creeps in and gets sort of like [041:12] Like accepted. Yeah Written in I get it now. Okay. Now I fucking not really get it now. I get it get it Yeah, and then there's some other little little aspect of life that comes around the next year and you learn the hard way on that one Oh shit, I didn't see that one coming. Yep. Yeah Boy, that's one of the things that is Positive and negative about things like COVID, you know like some major upheaval of Everything where the whole world just gets thrown sideways. You're like whoa The the negative I mean, there's so many negatives, right? Laws of life, loss of businesses, everybody fucking at each other's throats. But on the other side of it and the other end of it, you're like, Oh, now I kind of understand people a little bit better. Now I understand why character and discipline is so important in friends and people that you love [042:06] People that can hang in there and deal with things versus people that cannot adapt and just fall apart and then look for someone to rescue them Yeah, and these these things you only learn them. There's only one way to learn them. You have to go through some shit Yeah, yeah, yeah if you were to if you were to ask me in 2019, how was I going to get through and react to what ended up happening there in 2020? You know, I would have been bullshit in you if I pretended like I knew. You know, my wife and I, we had no idea until we went through it. Me too. Yeah. I've always had in my head this thought that things could go sideways. And I literally had an apocalypse truck built. I had a Toyota Land Cruiser built with a giant gas tank and all steel bumpers and some like if something gets fucked up, I want something that holds a lot of gas that can go real far and I can drive over hills. [043:02] Do you get like that you in like bulletproof plating? I didn't. I didn't, because I figure. Do you get like that, that you in, like bulletproof plating? I didn't. I didn't, cause I figure like if it gets to that, you're kind of fucked. If you're in a goddamn gunfight and you've got rubber tires, like you're kind of fucked no matter what. Dude, this is a side note, not to go too much to the side, but I saw a wild video the other day of these two like armor truck guards in South Africa. Oh, I've seen that. Did you see that? Yeah, that's why old? They're trying to take over this guy's armor truck and that how those dudes are keeping their ship together? They're keeping they kept it together and you could and you know was so rare about that video is like It's just a stable camera on them where you're watching somebody was like it's just this stable camera on them where you're watching somebody like trying to keep it together and keeping it together. Yeah, but this is it right now. There you it. Yeah. This is they've already got the bullet in the glass. You know the driver he's he's already fighting you know in his way and then you got his passenger there and now he's like all, like you can see it on his face. He's like getting ready to go. [044:05] Yeah. Wow. And that is a crazy video. The that truck ends up coming on the passenger side and shooting some more on that one and trying to ram the truck. Yeah. Yeah, these guys are trying to take over this armored truck. South Africa is wild. I was looking at this house that's for sale. I was just looking, I just enjoy looking at architecture videos for whatever reason. Not looking to buy a fucking house in South Africa. But they had this house that's for sale in South Africa in Cape Town and it's called the Iron Man House and this house is insane. It's one of the coolest fucking houses I've ever seen in my life. It's insane. It's like Tony Stark's house. Oh yeah. So on a cliff like they built this house that I mean I think it's like $20 million [045:03] which is insane in Cape Town, South Africa. You know, and it's just overlooking this thing, but Cape Town is so riddled with crime. Like to have a house like that in Cape Town, you're like, hey, here's where the money is. Yeah, look at that. Oh my god. Bro, is that the sickest fucking house you've ever seen in your life? That's insane. It's so sick. and it's like overlooking this water. That does look like the Tony Stark house too. It looks better than the Tony Stark house because the Tony Stark house is all just CGI. This is real. Does it come with that hot lady? There's hot lady in the underwear. She's appearing in all these pictures like you can have her. It's good way to sell it. Yeah, I should see that in every picture. And then she would be here drinking, waiting for you. And then she'd be in her underwear, waiting for you to fuck. Look at this video. Look at these photos, man. It's a fucking incredible house. But that part of the world is a wild part of the world. I mean, this was just in the British Virgin Islands and one of the people that I was with [046:06] was lady from South Africa and she was explaining to us what it's like there and she's like you know she's like you know my generation it wasn't that bad but now it's pretty bad it's just like it's worse now yeah she's like the violence it's just crazy damn yeah I had some country music people tore there really they do South Africa did Kip Moore was there over the summer and I mean it looked incredible Forum like but I don't know if I've ever found my way there It's like the elevated levels of I guess if you live there You just get accustomed to it people get accustomed to everything but there's elevated levels of risk there They just don't exist if you're in Austin. Yeah, but not necessarily, because six street where my club is, this is some fucking shootings there on a regular, you know? Yeah, we played a, I was opening for a show at all [047:01] that like Blues Club Downtown back. It was like during codes, andtons, yeah, that's right. And there was a shooting that night, ended up being a shooting that night. Yeah, it happens. Like in America, well, shit, in the world, you're gonna have violence. Especially it seems like post COVID, everything just got kind of like norms sort of dissolved reality sort of shifted into this new strange place where things get they're more heightened tensions and things are more bizarre I think than ever before and I think you just get accustomed to that and if you're living South Africa I guess you just get accustomed to life in that that vibe just dealing with that shit yeah dealing with people there. They all have like barbed wire all over their fences and shit. Yeah, I can't even imagine. Hi security systems. I mean, I would imagine everybody has to be armed. Also, when you kill somebody, you get out of jail pretty fucking quick. That pastorious guy. [048:01] Dude, I saw that. He's already out. Damn, that wasn't long. Dude I saw that he's already out damn that was I'm honored his fucking girlfriend in like 2013 man. Yeah, I heard that I'd be done How many years did he kill his girlfriend 2012? Dude it was like 10 years ago. Yeah, I think he did 11 years Nine years he did nine years for murder. Dude, I got, for fucking murder. There's people I grew up with that are doing three times that for an armed robbery when they're 16 or 17, you know. How about dudes selling weed? They're still in jail for the rest of their life. I mean, that's one of the cruelest things about Colorado when Colorado changed over and became legal. And marijuana was legal in Colorado's first date. There's dudes in penitentiaries that could look out there fucking window and see a weed store that's a deal that's a deal for selling weed that's a damn shame isn't it a pro board granted pastorias is petition in november on the grounds that he had served half of his thirteen years sentence [049:02] for murder and steenkamp making him eligible according to South African law. Jesus Christ. If all you have to do is 13 years for killing people, boy, there's a lot of people that are out there like, I think I killed that dude now. I'll do 13 years and get him off the fucking planet. There's a lot of people like in him out there wandering around. How many people out there like, that's your daughter that guy killed your daughter And he only did nine years it'd be a no-brainer look at her so beautiful Yeah, but I mean what the fuck dude? Yeah, he shot her look he shot through a fucking door and Kilda you know He shot through a fucking door and and killed her You know At the very least he's guilty of reckless manslaughter like what you you don't know what your target is You're just shooting through a fucking bathroom door or whatever you're doing. Okay, yeah I didn't know if my I wouldn't like rely on my memory too much, but it was a bathroom too. I believe so like [050:03] Who the fuck is he? In the bathroom was he in the bathroom or was she who the fuck is he? And our brother is in the bathroom? Was he in the bathroom or was she in the bathroom? Was he shooting out of the bathroom? I don't remember. I feel like I thought he was in the bathroom. Yeah, that's what I'm kind of remembering too. He's worried about something else. Yeah, well, one thing you have to take into consideration if there's a lot of break ins. There's a lot of home invasions in an area where my friends in LA are telling me, like I have friends in LA who used to be anti-gun and they say, why do you want guns? And now they all have guns and they're all terrified. And there's not all of them, but there's quite a few of them that have experienced break ins. And one of my friends just moved to Portugal. He's just like, there's so much shit going down in LA. I don't know what to do and I was telling him, hey, he moved to Austin. And then I hadn't talked to him for like six months and I sent him a text message the other day because he loves Korean food. I go, bro, I found a dope Korean food spot in Austin. He goes, hey man, I moved to Portugal. He's like, what did you do? You moved to Portugal. It's amazing here. The food's incredible. [051:05] People are so nice, crimes low. I have heard that. Portugal is doing this. Portugal is doing the thing where everything's legal. Yep. Is that right? Yep. They decriminalize everything. Okay. All drugs. And they experience a giant drop in murderers, a giant drop in addictions, in crime. Yeah. Like, you're not supposed to have things that people want to do illegal. It's unfortunate if people want to do things that are terrible for you. It is unfortunate. But the flip side is people are going to do it anyway. And if you make it illegal, then you're propping up illegal enterprises. Yeah. And I mean, if I'm just, you know, at the end end of the day I'm a musician. I don't know shit But if everything was legal somebody goes in and buys whatever drug legally, they're probably not gonna be less offend No exactly, you know 100% look you would have more overdoses you would have more deaths Like if they just decided today to make everything legal you're gonna have a spike in deaths [052:03] just decided today to make everything legal. You're gonna have a spike in deaths. There's no way around that in my eyes, but would you have a corresponding drop in fentanyl deaths? I think you would. So you would have a drop in accidental deaths where people just take a little molly. They just wanna go to a rave and just fucking dance and all of a sudden they're dead. You would have way less of those. So that would drop, but you're gonna have people that are just addicted to drugs, they're gonna overdose because of availability. And you're gonna have also people that try drugs that wouldn't have tried them because they're illegal and they don't wanna, they wouldn't know where to buy them, they don't know anybody who's selling drugs. If you could just go to a store and buy Coke, like, oh, what's the fuss about? Let me try this cocaine out. And the next thing you know, you're a Coke addict and you ruined your life. That's possible too. 100%. But, you know, there's personal responsibility, there's also education, there's counseling, there's a bunch of different things that can be set up to mitigate that. And I think that's the better direction for society, better than propping up cartels. We've got this fucking thing that's happening right across our border where there's immense organizations [053:09] that have insane amounts of money because they've been selling drugs that are illegal in America. Yeah, they're like warlords. Yeah, legit warlords. Yeah, the, some of those property owners down there, I don't know how they're dealing with that. Bro, I was just watching this video today of this guy who lives on the border and they're Dealing with all these people that come across the border that are smuggling drugs and it's fucking dangerous Like you can't approach them can't go anywhere near them. You have no idea what they're carrying You have no idea who they are or what they're doing and who they work for and he's like it's terrifying They're just traveling across your property with a backpack and you just gotta just let it happen. Yeah. And two years ago, I played a show down in San Antonio and there was a rancher there at the show and we were talking afterwards. And he said, and this would have been like, [054:01] right around that time, this had just happened. So this is April 21. He said one of his best friends who's also a rancher got a bunch of feds rolled up to their house one day and put him and his family on house arrest for two days without any explanation as to why. And then two days go by and they say okay it's all good you know we're so sorry for the inconvenience and the guys like whoa whoa whoa you can't just You have you get there has to be an explanation here and I guess You know I'm hoping I'm getting somebody to go here, but the guy's like I'm not supposed to tell you this but We there are nine insurgents and that were that across the border and we you know just so happen to Get them here on your property. Oh, you know, I'm bet the feds were probably watching them and then when they decided to To actually take them it must have been on this guy's ranch so you got the I mean you got your [055:03] Your kid your kids are out maybe doing a chore on your ranch, on your own farm. See, you got thousands acres or something and who knows what you could be running into. Have you seen some of the recent videos of the lines, the migration lines moving not just in Mexico. They're moving from South America through Mexico into the United States. I saw the ones from like a few years back but I did I've almost like tuned out. They're going at the same stuff again. The numbers are insane. Somebody just released a graph that shows the numbers of illegal aliens over the last year in comparison to previous years. So it's like you see the graph it's like 2014 2015 2016 and it gets to 2021 just like yikes. There's more illegal have made it into this country over the last year I believe than are people that live in five different states legally. [056:05] Oh my God. Yeah, I mean West Virginia's got 1.8 million on a real good year maybe. It's probably a little less than that. And there's a lot more illegal elements every year coming into. I mean, what's the number per month now? What's the fix for something like that? You gotta fucking have a secure board if you want to fix it. You know, this just seemed like they want to fix it. Like AOC was on TV the other day doing an interview and she was saying, you know, it's just called them undocumented people and the way to do it is to to give them a path to citizenship. Well, how about you know who the fuck they are? Because if you're a person from another country, say if you're in Europe and you want to come to America, become an American citizen, you know, you're an architect or whatever, there's like a long, lengthy process. They only take a certain amount of people every year. And you have to prove that you have a skill. There's a reason why you should be here legally. But if you want to do it illegally, [057:00] they'll give you money, they'll give you a cell phone. There's people in Mexico What they're doing is this is pretty wild because there's a radio station in San Diego That is a Mexican radio station this guy was on the Mexican radio station is explaining how we do it He's like he's gone back four times that month so every time he crosses over he gets two thousand dollars Just gaming it. So he's gaming he he made $8,000 in a month from the federal government. You almost, like, what do you do? You set up, cause back in the day, you know, when there's, you know, I don't know, everything, obviously, but like, maybe the similar time in American history would've been the early 1900s. And yet all those Europeans coming over on the boats to work over in these. So my family got here. Yeah and everybody went through Ellis Island or somewhere like it where you go in and you got some sort of papers. Yeah, that was pretty easy. I was really in the check. At least though, they got you, they got a name. [058:00] Yeah. Well not even. People changed it. Yeah, they changed it right there If it's like too hard to pronounce a lot of people yeah, yeah, my bass players last name got yeah I'd fucked with a little bit. I'm sure yeah a lot of people's names got changed It was easy to come over here back then when my grandparents came here But you know that was the law back then this is not the law the law is that you're supposed to go through this process where they vet you and they find if you're a criminal and they find if you're a terrorist and they're not doing that at all. They're just opening the border and they're essentially buying votes. Yeah. They're doing this. They're letting these people come in and they're assuming these people are going to vote for the Democrats. And it's wild. It's wild that it's happening right in front of everybody's eyes. And most people aren't aware of it unless they see these videos. Or like Elon was telling me that when you go there, do you really understand the scope of it? He goes, it's extraordinary. He just, you can't believe the numbers of people that are making their way across. It's just insane. It's just, and everyone knows about it. [059:01] So all these people that live in these and I don't blame them at all man. If you're just a regular person that was unfortunate to be born in a terrible environment and you realize if I can get to America I can feed my family, I get a job, I can work on a farm, I can whatever it is, I can work in a factory and we could live in a good way instead of being trapped in this hellhole in which we were just unfortunately born in. Yeah, I get it. I'll do two. I'll do two. Yeah, if I was in Guatemala, 100% I'd have a backpack. 100% I'd be on that fucking trek. Let's go. Yeah, if you get up here and get some work and send money home. How many lazy Americans do we have in this country that just fuck off and don't want to do jack shit and they're just fucking me Well, we got people walking here from Mexico. Yeah, yeah You see it and that's the thing like back to the the COVID thing man it's There's like a flip to switch and a lot of folks heads from one end of that to the other with yes [1:0:03] You know, I mean if you're not where you're at in life, you know, then you're never going to get their half-ass in your day. Wherever you happen to be, it might be the best idea to like give it your best. Yeah. Or else you're just going to be a miserable fuck the rest of your life. Well that was one thing that happened to a lot of people that was good. They realized that this job that they had, that they hated, that just went away. Okay, you know, not only did I fucking hate this job, but I thought it was necessary because it was the only thing that I had. I didn't want to lose it, but then they just fucking took it away from me. God damn it, I'm gonna go for my fucking And a lot of people did they went for their dream they started small businesses. They got their shit together They lost weight a lot of people did a lot of very positive things when their back was against the wall Yeah, and then a lot of people just went on unemployment and a lot of people never wanted to get on I mean I had friends that were in the bar business and they couldn't get people to work They couldn't get bartenders [1:1:00] They couldn't because people were making more money being unemployed. Yeah Taking unemployment and they would rather live like that. They'd rather get that free check. Yeah. Yeah. And that was like, you know, I'm 31 and I released my first album in 2019. But I didn't get booking and management and stuff like that until even after that. So COVID cut the legs out from me. Things were just starting to actually look a little bit legitimate in my life. And COVID cut the legs out from under that. So on the other side of that is really where, I could have gone two ways. And I went back on tour in the spring of 21 and then I started taking my full band out with me and or seven piece including myself and the summer of 21 and I went broke in the fall. Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't pay my guys One week and I had a my second album which we made during the covid year [1:2:09] went on pre-sale That next week and I explained to my guys what was happening and They stuck with me and once I put the pre-sales up and I got a little bit You know to keep paying them and we were able to keep working. And then I was bleeding real bad and 21 and it came down to one point in Bloomington, Indiana. We played the Bluebird one night. And I just got a new day-to-day manager who's done a phenomenal job for me. But anyways, he had just gotten on the job and basically broke it down for me on the phone. How much I was losing per month and was just saying, he's like, this is, you're going belly up here. This is over. You have to cut half these guys and even then we're going to have a hard time making it. After that gig, we all sat outside in the alleyway and I explained to them what was [1:3:04] happening and they all took half pay So my guys were willing to go $50 a show damn and they were in a hundred percent they didn't have the you know their jobs and stuff back home They're there with me and They were game to go for that what you can't live off that and and they were a game to go for that, which you can't live off that. And we kept hanging on there for a couple of months, and then that second album came out in November, and we got on the road with the Zank Prime brought us out on the road with them. And, you know, the album, it worked. You know, the album had dig great, and we made the most of our opportunity to get an open that tour form, and, you know, we made the most of our opportunity to get an open that tour form and You know we made it The universe awards that I or you know it it was That close to just even if I wanted to I wouldn't have had money to even put in the gas tank But that's what makes the story beautiful this terrible story as you quit [1:4:01] That's the terrible story sitting on the porch one day and you're an old man Terrible stories you quit. That's the terrible story. You're sitting on the porch one day and you're an old man. You're going, God damn it, I think I could have made it. Yeah. Mine's the most bitter of people, man. Those are the ones that talk the most shit about other artists. They talk the most shit about other people. The people that just have these regrets, the failed attempts, they didn't go through the door, they didn't do it, they didn't take that risk, they didn't just run, they didn't just fucking suck it up and try it. That's a scary thing, but if you can get through that scary thing, that's a better life. That's a better life. The life of fear and the life of regret, that's a terrible life. That life of wishing, I could have, the could of life. That's the shittiest life. Yeah, you don't wanna be that. God damn, you don't wanna be that, especially when there was a spark, when there's some potential. Yeah. Like in the comedy world, when you start out as an open mic or you start out with a bunch of fucking mental patients and crazy people, [1:5:01] because anybody can go on stage, you know. And there's always like one or two guys that you're with or girls and they got something. They got something and some of them make it and some of them don't. And if there's a hundred of them, maybe one of them will become a professional. Maybe. It's probably not even that. It's probably for 500 open-micres, one, it's probably not even that. It's probably a thousand. For every one 1000 open-micres that regularly shows up, one of them will become a working professional. Yeah, that can actually sell tickets. But man, I have these fucking dreams sometimes, where I remember these people that I knew that they had it, man, they had something. They had something. This is girl that I dated when I was like 21. It was like the last time time ever dated a comedian. But God damn it, she was funny, man. She was really funny. She was really funny. And I remember thinking, damn, she's funny to me. Like she's funny, man. She's good. Like she could, she had something. And it wasn't always, you know, you'd have these open mics are rough, like bad crowds. Like sometimes you bomb, sometimes you do well. [1:6:10] But Sometimes you do well, but every now and then she would be on stage She would catch that wave and they'd be like look at her go look at her go. She's gonna do it. She's gonna make it She fucking quit. Mm-hmm. I always I think about people like that I think about dudes that I knew that it just had it man. There's this one guy that I knew in from New York Remember the first time I watched him on stage. I'm like, oh my God, that guy's the next Bill Hicks. Look at this motherfucker. Holy shit. Quit. Dispeared. Went away. It's a hard road. Hard road to go. Fuck. But that's the life of sadness and regret. This the fucking not ever go for it. It's the worst. So that's like the universe gave you a little challenge. Yeah. for it is the worst. So that's like the universe gave you a little challenge. Yeah, that one, man, I was losing sleep, but it was about, yeah, it was like three, four some nights. I was getting up at two in the morning and just, God, I could imagine. I was freaking out, but you know, I'm stretched out [1:7:00] and honestly, I love my guys because they went through that with me. And they're willing to stick in there. That's beautiful. Yeah, I'm planning on as long as they'll be with me. That's fine by me. We're going to do it till we're 90 years old, like Willie Nelson. Yeah, fuck it. Trying to do it. That's amazing. Yeah, everybody loves it. And if you can hear a a story like that if you're a person out there listening And you're not sure what to do and you hear a story like that. God damn it. Go for it Mm-hmm, you might not make it and might not work out But if it doesn't guess what are you alive? Can you breathe? Can you walk? Well, you could do it again Try it again try a different way figure out what you did wrong and sometimes and and this this is with me because Like you know and even though it was a small thing you know I wanted to play football for West Virginia and I wasn't good enough and everybody I grew up with knew I was trying to do it my whole hometown knew what I was trying to do and you know it was embarrassing failing in front of all this [1:8:01] folks but once you done that once you know there's almost a, you get a little, you like gain an advantage with having felt that before because you know what it's like. So if it happens again, well you already been through it. So if you've never just fallen on your face before, you might be scared to do it. But you know that's something that, you know, so if somebody chases something out there and it doesn't work out, don't view that as a bad thing and they pay off later when you find the next thing. And you're not scared to go for it. Because you've already went for this other thing back in the past. So, you know, why don't you go for it? Failure is very important because that feeling, that sucky feeling of failure is an amazing motivator. Some of them, like the big leaps that I've made in my career as a standup all came after bombing. Like you bomb and you just like, I gotta get to work. Like I got to figure out what the fuck I did wrong. Why that show went so bad. I gotta buckle up and get better. I really have to fucking focus. I can't be [1:9:00] lackadaisical. I can't be lazy. I gotta get after it. Like that feeling, that horrible feeling, that's their own purpose. That's there, it's a tool. It's like a motivational tool. It's there to let you know, it's a sign. It's a very important potent reaction that you have to this bad path. You did the wrong thing. You went the wrong way, you took a wrong turn, you fucked it all up, you feel like shit, right? You feel like a fucking loser? Good. It's because you are a loser. Like right now you're a loser. You don't want to be a loser, right? Okay. Get to work. Yep. You can't be resting on those laurels. You know. You just gotta keep pushing. One of you know a really valuable thing and honestly, I've been listening to this show. This show fills a lot of time when I was on the road all these years. And so I was like a 23 year old kid driving my old highlander to gigs and I listened to this show. And there's, I can't remember exactly when, it might have been multiple times, but you be talking with like fellow comedians about your old come up. And you're talking about getting the famine mentality out of your mind. You know, you had to figure out that that's a toxic place to be at mentally. [1:010:07] Yeah. Is letting other people's success like fuck with you or make your you be enjealous about it and all that. And I remember listening to that as a kid and I hadn't figured that out yet for myself. But hearing that and I was like, oh yeah, that's smart. Just be happy for folks and keep moving and focus on you. And that was one of the most valuable things that I ever learned from somebody else was that just to get that out of my head way back at the beginning and just have that like healthy mindset going into what is a decade-long crucible of trying to make it in the music industry. That's beautiful. Is getting that, just positive frame of mind, we're just working on you, and if you see something good happening to somebody else, hell yeah, good for them. It can be a positive thing. When other people succeed and you have that Gell's demon gets in your mind, [1:011:02] you can turn that around and use that as inspiration. But you have to consciously understand what's happening here and other people's success that is not your failure, that's their success and you could use that as fuel, that could be inspiration and it could be entirely positive. And especially if you know those people, the saddest thing to me is when there's a friend and one friend has something really big happen. The other friend gets jealous and starts shit on that friend because of it. You see it in comedy all the time and it's a terrible mindset and there's the same experience could be approached in a completely different way where your friend makes it you know like do fuck yeah. God damn it. You did it. This is incredible fuck yeah god damn it you did it this is incredible holy shit you're killing it I'm so pumped man I'm gonna get to work now I'm gonna I'm gonna work harder I'm gonna I'm gonna carve my path now now that I know that you did it and now I feel that that that sense that I want that in my life I want to achieve [1:012:01] that it can be fuel and that fuel is important. It's so valuable. And instead people piss that fuel away as jealousy and bitterness where it does you know good. It poisons you. It ruins you. You're hoping for someone's failure. It's such a terrible weakness. It's a terrible weakness of character that so many people just give into. And you don't have to. The exact same experience where someone is killing it can be fuel for you. Even if you don't like that person. Like that's the highest level of it. You don't even like a guy. And you see they're killing and go, you know what? They fucking earned it, man. They're out there kicking ass. Maybe I don't like their personality. Maybe they're just fucking, they're so focused on success. They're kind of a cocksucker to other people. But you know what, man? Look, that fucking guy put in that work and now he's like, I admire that ambition. I admire that work ethic. I embrace that. I don't want to be that person, I'm gonna be a shitty person. I'm gonna be a nice person, but I also wanna be successful. [1:013:06] How the fuck do I incorporate this into my life? I need this, this is fuel for me. And to look at it that way, that's a way better way. And it's the same exact experience, the same exact materials, but instead of using those materials to look like, why not me? Instead, you're like, fuck yeah, I'm now gonna go for it. It gives you positive energy instead of negative energy. It's just a mindset that you have to embrace. It's huge. Yeah, and I think without that, I don't know if I would have made it. You know what I mean? Just those years, you have got to muster up all the positivity you can, because you are not getting it from the bar, the restaurant, and the brewery, and the cafes, and sleeping in the back of your car, being broke. Folks coming up and telling you to turn it off. I mean, shit, I had, you know, man. [1:014:03] So yeah, having that frame of mind gets you through those hard times. Yeah, and the scene Yeah, I came up, you know, and basically in the West Virginia music scene There isn't much of one and it was not that it was very much the family mentality so I got help from certain promoters and venue owners, but other established musicians in the state no and But other established musicians in the state, no. And when, you know, I recognize that at the time. And I told myself if I'm ever in, if I ever have the opportunity to, I'm going to do things differently. And then once I started getting out there in the music world a little bit and actually playing some proper shows, man, I was blessed to be, to get to open for very supportive people that helped me out and we're happy to bring them on the road. That's awesome. They wanted to bring the best show that they could and I never forget that and then I try to do that now. Who's the first person to bring them on the road? [1:015:01] The first legit shows that I got to play and open for somebody, you know, traveling and show to show with them was William Clark Green. Here out of Texas, I did an East Coast run with them and William was super cool to me. And you know, I was nervous going into it because these are some of my first like actual venue shows outside of my hometown that I ever played. I've only done restaurants and bars before that. And I remember one night, William was like, he told the crowd towards the end of his set. He's like, if one of you all, if you guys buy a piece of Chuck's merch, I'll give you a free CD, like a free sign CD or something like that. So I mean, you know, I mean, I think I made like $700 at the merch table that night as a solo opener. And man, that was a good night then. That's awesome. Back in that day. And then Ward Davis took me out with him for two years. And you know, that allowed me to get my feet on the ground and start building a good loyal following. [1:016:01] And you know, Ward's learned a lot of hard things, like a lot of things the hard way and shared a lot of experience with me which is save me some hard lessons. That's important. That's like someone who's a mentor that's gone through it already. Absolutely. Can give you some advice. Yeah, absolutely. And then Zach Bryan and Zach's way just opening up his giant following to us and letting us open three of his tours. Oh, that's whaling. You know what I mean? And those three in particular were huge. And then I've opened for some fantastic people since then. But those were the three that were like, William was the first and then Warden's Zach were the ones that I opened for the longest. Yeah, it's nice to be in a spot now where I get to pick folks that are coming up that are really, really fucking good. And get to bring them out on the road and having a show. [1:017:00] Just the internet, you know, the internet, you know, hearsay and you just hear things about folks. One guy that he opened a West Coast tour with this summer, and this is like kind of that great example of just like having a good, a good circle of folks that you're able to work with why it flores and why it can't be open for me now. Like. I mean we did our last show together. He was one of my openers at the at the Rhyman. We shot after the second show and I said, you got to remember this, but remember when you play Mass and Square Garden the first time you make sure you have me and the boys as your opener for that one because you know just everybody's on their own timeline and why it's just, you know, his is going real fast. That's awesome. Yeah, and it's great for him, man. That is cool. And that is where that mentality comes in. That other people's success is not your failure. It's beautiful. It's just beautiful. Yeah. My wife and my kids are fine. My band now, everybody's, you know, they're getting married, getting homes, and like we're good. That's crazy. It's gonna be fine. We'll just keep doing our thing. [1:018:06] Exactly. And the more, more folks that succeed, the better. Yes. Yes. And the world needs more great music. It really does. Ain't nobody that's only listening to one person, I always say I bought them, is got an I bought me more of it. There's nobody that's only listened to one artist and they're on their spotifier. Yeah, that's probably a stalker. You know what I mean? Like people are listening to a hundred different things. Maybe Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift might have like one dude out there that only has Taylor Swift songs. Going 24-7, he's got a Taylor Swift D-shirt. He talks his dick and his fucking underwear and stands in the mirror and pretends he's hurt. Oh, right. There's there's a few people out there that my lures show on it's yeah. Yeah. God imagine being her security detail. Jesus Christ. I'd be interested to hear here some of their stories up but there's been some some shit. Oh my god. It has to be like there's I mean in the history [1:019:00] of artists there's only a handful, small handful that have got to that Taylor Swift level. That's the level where almost everyone goes crazy. I don't even think you can count it on two hands. I don't think so. No, it's like there's Michael Jackson, the Beatles, Elvis, there's like a few. But she's in a crazy place, man. She's doing stadiums every night. Every night, stadium, stadium, stadiums, they sold out instantly tickets go for astronomical numbers. And then there's a stadium of people outside the stadium, just trying to listen to the echoes of the PA. That's something I've never seen. Like you see some sold out stadium tours and stuff, but you don't see that. Or like, is that overhead? And then it looks like the Washington Mall outside of the stadium. Yeah, folks, just trying to hear like that like echo over voice from a half mile away. Some of the first live shows that I ever saw. I was a security guard at Great Woods. Great Woods is this place in Mansfield, Massachusetts. It's just like outside performance amphitheater. And some of the first shows that I ever saw live, [1:020:08] first show I ever saw live was a J-Giles band. Maybe it was George Thuroughgood. It was like George Thuroughgood and Destroyers. And I think that was like the first band that I paid to see when I was a kid. But then when I was older and I worked as a security guard, I worked for this place. So I saw concerts all the time. I saw so many different concerts. And I remember one time I saw Bon Jovi. I was working the Bon Jovi concert and we were pulling the security truck up. And as we were pulling the truck up, we got out and outside of the venue here. Shot through the heart and you're too big you give love a bad name bomb and everybody goes I was like this is crazy because it was one of my first nights on the job and I was like hearing that pop for the first time. That energy's insane. It's insane. [1:021:07] The energy of a live show is something that's just, because it's not just you're watching the performance, you're watching it with other people. And they're all excited and you feel their excitement and everyone's happy and it's all, everyone's together and that fucking yeah. It's all together. It's wild. It's a beautiful thing, man. Oh and it's all, everyone's together and that fucking yeah. It's all together. It's wild. It's a beautiful thing, man. Oh, it's so beautiful. Yeah, that's a, it makes, it makes the travel worth it. Oh yeah. You know, to have that feeling where you got all those foes is like, they're all having that moment. The travel's rough. Together. The travel breaks you down. Do you do anything to keep the travel from breaking you down? Do you take vitamins? Do you take care of yourself at all? Yeah, yeah I do. I do my best and I'm getting better as a years go by. I run just about every day. Oh that's awesome. Yeah it's good for my cardio. I enjoy it. Good for your head too, right? Good for my head. And then yeah I take vitamins. There's a lot of vitamin D trying to keep my kids are in daycare. Oh my god brother. [1:022:05] They're little disease factors. Dude, I've been sick more in the last two years and I was the 10 years prior since my son first went in. It is like a little petri dish. I'm going to come out like a cockroach here in 18 years. Oh yeah. You come out of it and you're like not going to be a system, I saw it. I take vitamins that you know, I started doing AG one. That's great stuff. With those with the little droplets in it too. Couple months ago. Vitamin D, K2. Yeah. And I kind of like everything is the same except I don't I might that afternoon like I could take a nap. Mm-hmm. I don't have that one. I'm taking that. That's the big difference I've been getting from that one. The hard thing is the diet when you're on the road. That's the hard thing. Yeah. Yeah. Really make sure you eat clean. It just has a giant factor in whether or not you can recover. Yeah. Yeah. The discipline there after the show is a big part of it. Yeah. The jack in the Burger King pull is strong. Yeah, if I had perfect discipline, I'd look like an Olympian. [1:023:07] You know, I'd be pretty, you know, I wouldn't be that strong, but I'd be pretty ripped. But we're moving to the bus this year. So this would be my first year in the bus, and I'm looking forward to that sleep. Yeah, I don't know if I can sleep that good on a bus. I don't always worry about crashing. Because the thing about a bus, if you crash it's like, he's just falling on top of everybody. He's not even strapped in. It happens to me. Oh yeah, what was that woman's name? Gloria Estefan, cheap fractured her back. I think, yeah. A serious accident. Party had a bus accident, I think, last year. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think, you. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, I think it was pretty bad. Let's scary shit, man. And you gotta rely on that driver. Stay awake. Yeah. And then who knows what kind of fuckheads are on the road doing stupid shit and crashing into things. But we've been driving myself for the seven years [1:024:04] and with my dogs and then sleeping in a roll-out mat and the back of my car behind venues and then the hard way. Three years in the van with me and the guys and driving all day. This is the only way I see me being able to keep my health up for the rest of my life is getting that sleep Do drink a little bit. I cut way back this year. I'm a god. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I get into the 30s things start like sticking to you a little bit more And I was I was looking to myself at We went to the beach back at the end of May and I was looking at pictures of myself. I was like Yeah, that's it. I got. I got to like this shit down or I'm gonna let it get in the way from me. Well, it's just the fatigue factor. The difference between drinking and not drinking, like how you feel the next day, it's so significant. It's hard to ignore. You know, it's hard to ignore that fatigue factor. [1:025:01] Like you're poisoning yourself every night. Yeah. It's fun. Yeah, it's great. Have a few beers, throw a few shots back. Woo! Have a little party. It's great. Parties are fun. But you are legitimately poisoning yourself. Mm-hmm. And you gotta be aware of what the effect of that is. Yeah. And it's not good for the voice either. I don't know. You know, sometimes I'll do four headlines in a row and Well, it's like exact smoke cigarettes like a chimney. I was like how do you how you doing that? You have this fucking incredible gift this amazing voice and you're you're sucking on cigarettes all the time Yeah, he's a he's a he's a pup still he's a young boy is a young fellow one day. Who maybe maybe I don't know I mean maybe his voice will change with the cigarettes like someris. Yeah, you ever hear Sinatra when he was young Oh, yeah, yeah, there's early 50s like Christmas songs and stuff It sounds strange strangely different. Mm-hmm. It's like a completely different kind of voice Like it when you got older it was like this [1:026:02] Yeah, I did it my way, but when he was younger it was like this yeah i did it my way but when he was younger it was just like this insane voice like this beautiful you know he was arrested i have one of his mug shots out there you know i have a whole collection of mug shots i'm doing a lobby one of them is sanatra and uh he was arrested for seduction yeah i think it banks somebody's wife wrong person's wife. I guess somebody to like the mayor. But that was listed on his, his ravage. It was seduction. See that, that's true, right? That's an old school law right there. Here it is. Seduction. Let me explain. The year was 1938. Years of force in Ochoa would go go on to start his first movie or releases for single he was just 23 years old by today's standards shocking that he spent any time in jail for his crime even though it was less than 16 hours so during that time period a person could be arrested for seduction which was a charge usually given to a man who slept with [1:027:01] a woman based on false promises are using some kind of lie oh interesting for instance a man can be arrested after sleeping with a woman after a false promise of marriage wow reportedly synotry's ex-girlfriend was his accuser also wasn't a wife was wrong saying that he promised her marriage and then broke up with her he was really arrested because you break up with a girl that's hilarious you know frank frank was willing to say anything to get in that list that however it turns out that she was actually already married which cancelled out the charges of seduction that's why i thought it was someone's wife even so the state of new jersey arrested sanatra and charged him with adultery after learning that they couldn't have him with seduction the charges later dropped after you paid a $500 bond $500 in 1938. That's probably a stiff bond. It's a lot of money back then dude people buy a house for like Yeah, in Detroit right now Yeah, I thought about that right as I said I can find some recordings of Sinatra from when he was young, because it really is crazy when you listen [1:028:06] to the difference in that music. The sound of that voice, and that's gotta be like a lot of Jack Daniels and cigarettes. I think the earliest I've listened to him is maybe the 40s, so maybe if he was singing in the 30s there, I probably haven't heard that. It's an incredible voice. But it's so different. It's hard to believe that it's actually synatra because it sounds so young and high pitched. It's just a different and it's so much range. His voice had this incredible range that all got blunted by the cigarettes. And then, you know, I also got older. It just became ad regrets. You know, like it became almost more talking than the vocal range that he had when he was younger, just kind of adapted. All the years of kind of like just playing night and night out too, you can take somebody's range away. Oh yeah, man. Vocal surgery is stuff like that. It's torches your throat. [1:029:01] He left 29, broken heart. your throat. That's different. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. What is the idea? I've got you. So this is the wig days. Yeah So this is the weekdays Strange times it is looking right at the camera doing the handwork Well, you got to think back then that's all new you know being on television was new He's the fucking man right there. Yeah, that didn't know that there was no one on TV before him It's like how many how many years of television even existed before that was it 10? [1:030:04] You know, yeah, it was like 15. Maybe it was like early 50s when the right-wingers late show started. Oh my god. If you go back and watch those what's crazy is if you go back and watch those shows, especially like the late night talk shows like the Jack Par Show and stuff like that, that thing where you have the desk and then someone sits beside on the couch they still do it that way today. I know, man. They fucking never adjusted. This is the same. Weird. It's weird, like why you have a desk? Are you working? Are you writing books up there? Like why do you have a fucking desk? Yeah. Why are you sitting in front of that desk? And it's just like that was the tonight show. Ladies and gentlemen, hey, have a seat. And he's got this guy sitting there at a desk and next to him, it's a couch. Like this is a bizarre way to do a show. Yeah. But because it was the way they did it originally, these uncreative motherfuckers just kept doing it that way forever. And everybody does it that way. Yeah, they still do. The only person like, Norma Donnellan. Oh, yeah. Fuck. I'd sit there on YouTube and just watch like his late night show interviews were, he's [1:031:09] in that situation. He's a man. He'd turn that in like. Yeah. No, he was a man. A few people did it differently. Arsenio Hall did it differently. Arsenio Hall had like seats where they were sitting next to each other. He did it differently. George Lopez did it differently. George Lopez just had like seats. They just kind of faced each other. Kind of like Letterman's like Netflix show that he does now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a cool setup. It's a good setup. The only problem is that way of talking to people, you don't really, it's too performative, there's people there. Like a real conversation, it's not the same when there's an audience. It's a different thing, sometimes it's a fun thing. Like live podcasts in front of an audience, they can be great, but it's a different thing. It's not the same thing that you get [1:032:03] from just sitting in a room with someone having a conversation with them Yeah, which is the best way to talk to people. Yeah. Yeah, you know, you're getting a little bit of the the public persona Yeah, somebody if you're in a theater Yeah, doing no one an interview. Yeah, I mean, everybody does it differently Be real who we're talking about before he has a show called the hot box. Is it called the hot boxing? No, that's Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson's Hotboxen. What's B-Reel's show? Where he has this old cool car that they've done up and they got cameras inside of it. Smokebox. And you get barbecued. I mean, barbecued, to the place you don't know what you're talking about five seconds ago. And you're on this podcast, just getting baked and you're stuck in this car with B-Real and those guys are, nobody smokes weed like rappers. You want to smoke weed? You ever smoke weed with rappers? No, no, I can only imagine. I was a ice fishing with Jamie Johnson last week and I was just trying to keep up with him [1:033:03] and he had me blasted there. Yeah, it sounds. You can get tricky. And I'm sure Jamie Johnson can hang in there too. He definitely can. I'm sure he could do it. But I can't try to smoke a weed with like Snoop and Whiz Khalifa. Oh yeah, you're going heavy. Action Bronson. Action Bronson did the podcast once. We had to take a picture of all the blunt that were in the ass tray at the end of the podcast because it was so ridiculous. Like how are you alive? Yeah. Yeah, did it. Some folks are tolerance might. Yeah, just posted this. It's like the first 48 hours. Like how many blunts he has in his life. That's Snoop. Yeah. Oh my god. 30 30 that's so what an amazing when he when he did this podcast He just the whole time he's talking. He's just rolling blunts and he rolls his own blunts So he's sitting there talking in he's just like we're talking about shit. He's just rolling blunts Yeah, he had a sound machine with him. We had like lights and shit like oh, he's such a character [1:034:00] Snoop is an original. He's a guy's an original human being Everybody loves him too, man. Oh my god. How do you not love him? It's great. A few people in the world were there's like a there's like a second grader That knows who he is and my mom knows who he is, you know, remember he was doing that show with Martha Stewart Yeah, and it was great. Yeah, like what it would have ever thought that that teaming would work that that pair Yeah back in the day you never see that coming Teaming would work that that pair yeah back in the day you never see that coming Perfect she got done dirty back in the day They got her and they put her in jail for the same shit Nancy Pelosi's made hundreds of millions of dollars for oh Yeah, yeah, so many of those folks In the Senate they I want to know what happened why they went after her like that. I wonder what the real story behind it was She must piss somebody off. Uh huh. Yeah. There had to be something. It does, otherwise it doesn't even make sense. Like why would you scalp her? Why are you going after her? Yeah. Martha Stewart, what, you don't like beautiful things? Well, and Elsa was saying in his book, he thought they, they came after him. [1:035:00] We got her. She looks great. She looks great. She looks good. Got on that o' Zempick or something. Woo! That's a thing, isn't it? Yeah. It's a dangerous thing to some people. Some people give them my friend Brian got horrible side effects. It was like bed ridden. For some people, a certain percentage of the people that affects them, affects their gut very badly. Yeah. You get all these gastrointestinal issues. And all you have to do is just not eat shit. And you can lose that weight. You just not eat shit. Cut all the sugar out of your life. You will watch weight fall off your body. Yeah. Yeah, there's another way to do it. There's another way to do it. But that's not what people want. People want that quick fix, you know? Especially if you're a wheat smoker. If you're a wheat smoker, then you just want to. Oh, the munchies. Yeah, you hear the munchies and munchies. Especially late night, it's hard. It's hard not to just fatten up. Yeah, sometimes at home man, I'll raid that pantry. [1:036:07] Absolutely. It's hard. You have to have healthy choices. Like something that you can eat that you actually enjoy. One thing I really like doing like late night after a gig, I like cooking. I'll come home and cook a steak. Like one in the morning. I'm like, look, I'm a fucking grown man. I could eat whatever I want. Like, I guys cook a steak right now. Just cook a steak. You're hungry. Don't just go pour a bowl of fruit loops. Make a fucking steak. Like, let's eat something healthy. Let's eat real food. Let's have some vitamins, drink some water. Let's do it the right way. Yeah, that's another thing. I'm looking for that bus is because you know We can stash some better options on there for for after a show and yeah, I think it'll I think it's gonna help They pulled over Willie's bus in Texas and arrested him That's amazing when did they do that? That's a fuss. I want to say it was like 2000. Oh, that's fucked up [1:037:02] Seven or some shit 2009 when the Willie Nelson get arrested arrested might even been later than that might have been 2013 There's something crazy where the whole world was like what 2010 85 miles outside of El Paso For wheat Willie Nelson. Yeah, what do you a communist? Fuck yeah, that's like that's like butchering the Texas Longhorn. Like, mascot or something. It's so stupid too. It's like the dumbest thing to arrest someone for. Like, Jesus Christ, how are we still doing this in 2024? We're not really. Like, it's decriminalized in Austin, but it's still illegal in the state of Texas. It's still federally illegal, even though it's legal in a bunch of states, still federally illegal. That's a thing in music is, you know, people will stop and dump it off like in the van and stuff like that. Yep. So stupid. Kansas too is another one. Well, there's a lot of states where when you go through [1:038:02] the airport, they have a designated marijuana depositing box. Like so if you're traveling and you're going to fly into a state where it's illegal you just dump it in this box like in Nevada they have that because Nevada has these you know wheat dispensaries they have stores now we could buy it legally. Yeah. So if you're flying to the airport you're like all, all right, I want to get caught, dump it in this box. And at the end of the night, I bet those people that were rated that box. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. We're, uh, we're going to do Canada for the first time this year. And that that was like a thing that our tour manager was telling all the guys, you know, make sure you get passports going now and like, you know, make sure, playing on, like, not having any weed when we cross the border. And- What's legal in Canada? Yeah, but you can't cross. Right. Right, you can't cross with it. But once you're there, I mean, you can buy it there. You can buy it there andies up there. Yeah, I remember when it was illegal in Canada and then all of a sudden I went there one year [1:039:07] and it was like, oh my god, there's weed stores everywhere. That's how it should be, it should be legal. Like, you don't like it good. There's a lot of things I don't like. It doesn't mean it should be illegal. You don't have to take it Yeah, I was kind of hoping back home they would legalize it in West Virginia kind of more at the front end of the states and made some of that money. Yeah. We needed that. Yeah, that's the thing that's really crazy. It's kind of breaking off their nose, the spike their face. Yeah, I missed out on it. We could have been selling to people in all the border states there for a good handful of years and making good money. Are you living there now? Yeah, I still live there with with my wife and kids and that's where that's where I go back to when I'm when I'm off the road. You plan on living there forever? I always have you know my family we have family land that that always have my great-grandmother's house so I always keep that and you know whether my wife and I end up splitting time maybe between there and [1:040:03] somewhere else that might happen, but yeah I'll never I'll never Leave that completely. I feel like it's like in your bones. Yeah, I love it man It's it's like my comfortable place in the world. It's like truly, you know You know I'm fortunate to To feel that way about where I'm from that is very fortunate That's a beautiful yeah, not everybody does it's nice to have a place that grounds you too, where you go back, I'm at home base again. Yeah, especially for a guy like you that does the road so much and all the travel. Yeah, like my routine, my small town. And I grew up with so many people I see around on the day to day. That's cool. And folks watch me grow up, the older folks, and they know me. And yeah, I get to go about my day to day life, and it's all very, very normal. We're even in Nashville, it's not that. Because everybody's in music. Right, right, right. [1:041:00] You got people that they want something from you or something like that. Yeah, that's what I keep hearing about Nashville. That Nashville has become kind of a Hollywood light in a lot of ways. Yeah, you know, and it's great. I'm just saying, yeah, there's a lot of people in the music industry. Right. And if you're in the music industry and you're going to get people come up and ask you this and ask you that. At home, there ain't nobody in the music industry. There ain't nobody that has anything to ask of me. That's where I'm comfortable. Yeah, that's nice. It's nice that someone's not trying to angle on you and just use you for something else or get to this to you or connect themselves to you or hit you. There's so many social climbers and so many people that they've got a business they want you to invest in and. Yeah. And that's what when I met you, I met you the first time at two step in, that festival north of Austin, back in April. That's when Zach was playing. Yeah, and I met you just real brief and like, that was the last thing that I even wanted to come off. [1:042:02] That's why I was like real weird when I met you that first time, because it's like, hey man, it's nice to meet you. I don't wanna bother you. You know, I can only imagine what you run into on the day to day. So yeah, it's just, it's nice back home. I don't get that so much. Yeah, it's an unfortunate aspect of the life that I have, but it's this life is so I'm so fortunate in so many ways. I'm so blessed. I'm so so extraordinarily lucky that that's the complaint about that. I mostly put it out there so people realize like that's what that that's something that comes with this. And just you should know. And if you're on that path too, you're on the path to you want to be in show business, you want to be in entertainment or if you're on that path too, you're on the path you wanna be in show business, you wanna be in entertainment. Or if you just wanna be successful, I think in any business. Like there's gonna be people that they pretend when they're talking to you, they don't really give a fuck about you. They're not having a real conversation. They're angling. They're just trying to work an email address. He talked to you about this or that, and some people were terrible at it. [1:043:06] They're just like right away. There's a thing that I love about you to invest in. So new startup, it's like, I love to show you a doc. No, bro. Yeah, the currency of status. Yeah, it's a, yeah. I had to have a conversation with a got nothing. I have a guy who takes care of like financial stuff and as far as like me like investing in businesses, I do zero of that. I don't want to have nothing to do with that. I don't want to, you know what I'm gonna think about it. Well I'll think about it. I will fucking think about it. If I give you a bunch of money and I'm attached to this company, I'm hoping you run it right. Like what are you crazy? You don't think I'm gonna think about that? Of course I'm gonna think about that. Well, everything's gonna be handled. I don't do that. I don't do it. Sorry, not interested. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah, and some people just don't wanna take no for an answer. They just keep coming back. So, I do that again, I have four phone numbers. [1:044:05] That's, yeah, I'm thinking about maybe switching. And again, here we are like complaining about this stuff. It's the smallest of things. It's the smallest of things. I always tell people that have too much work. I go, this is the worst thing you can have is no work. That's the worst thing. To have too much work is so much better than have no work. To be too busy is so much better rather than to wish that you were busy. Yeah. Yeah. If you're too busy, you can back off a little bit. You can take some decisions and go, you know what? I'm wearing myself out. I'm gonna slow down a little. I'm doing a little less of this little less of that and you'll be alright. Yeah, there's something I was like, I would kind of tell myself in the last handful of years I would say yes to damn near everything because like what the story I was telling you about in 21, that's where I'm coming from. So you know, you say yes so that you get to that point where you can say no for the long [1:045:05] term. Right. And finally, this year, the quantity of shows is going to dial back a little bit. I've said notice some things that I would have dreamed of just having the opportunity to do in years past. But it's more time with my wife and my kids and doing my best to find that balance with the babies. Do you take them on the road with you at all? Cherry Pick, some good ones. They're down here in Texas with me in October. We did a green haul and we did the Texas Motor Speedway before that. They came down for that weekend. They were in Nashville with me in December, you know not all the time and yeah I'm trying to try and to balance that. Yeah I don't want to wear them out either. Yeah I don't want to wear them out and just trying to have to keep some normalcy and routine in their life and hopefully you know trying to navigate those waters and you know with some math in my wife I trying my wife trying to balance that. [1:046:07] Yeah, there's like so many benefits to the life that you have, but then there is that, the time away. You have been gone hundreds of days a year for years. Ooh, that's hard. That's hard. Yeah, I mean, I've had these guys on that are WWE wrestlers, and not only they gone hundreds of days a year, Yeah, I mean I've had these guys on that are WWE wrestlers and Not only they gone hundreds of days a year It was like some of them were doing 250 260 days a year But they're also getting thrown on the tables 260 days a year they're getting piled arrived and fucking body slammed and like imagine that and then you come home every Monday and Friday Yeah, and then like you know the two other ones in the week that aren't on TV exactly like 52 weeks a year and you come home and you're your beat up and exhausted broken and your backs in agony your knees are all fucked up and Yeah, yeah, that's another level like back to the to the like paint pill thing like [1:047:03] the knees and things like that. Oh, you know, all those guys in music too, a lot of a lot of folks, the knees, neck, some backs. Oh, sure, man. I mean, that's how we lost both prints and Tom Petty, lost them both of them, defentinal, you know, Yeah, sad shit, man, just in with with Prince it was just all that dancing and he apparently had a fucked up hip for a long time and he was an agony You know, it just Doing all those moves all those years show after show after show after show you know, yeah I'm from friends with the Maynard from tool. Mm-hmm. He had to get a fucking hip replacement from stomping Yeah, it was like stomping on stage when he's singing. Yeah. It blew his hip out. If I keep going with my neck, I'll end up having, you know, next stuff. I already got this thing that I lay on 10 minutes a day at the end after shows that decompresses all of it. What's going on with your neck right now? Yeah, it's just head banging and stuff like that when I'm playing shows. Right, but is it fucked up? No, it's nothing serious. [1:048:06] Now that's why, you know, maybe I need to adjust that. How long you in town for? My leaving tomorrow. In tomorrow, or tomorrow morning, like later on the morning. What time in the morning? What time is your foot? 9.30. I want to see if I can get you into ways to well. There's a stem cell clinic in Austin and they'll take care of you. They'll shoot you up with stem cells in your neck. Yeah, neck problems. I was trying to talk my dad into that. My dad worked in the mines for 20-something years. Oh wow. And you know he's 70-71 now and he's feeling all that. So where minor imperfections come from? Yeah, that's a great song. Yeah, my buddy, Zach McCord and I wrote that for our dads. That's a great song. Yeah, both of our dads are minors and that was for him. That's great song. Yeah. Yeah, that work is fucking insane. That works insane. Yeah. That's like when people, man, we wanna talk about the hard life. That's the hard life. Yeah. [1:049:00] Yeah, when my dad was my age, from 27 to 30, he worked in 26 and a half inches of coal. That's from Florida ceiling. And it was for a small, so there's coal companies, and then sometimes there'd just be this guy that there was a landowner back in the day that would get the right permits and stuff to be able to mine to seem a coal on some property you bought. And that's what the case was with that job that he had there for three years was for a small private mind. They weren't using roof bolts. Oh my gosh. So he had caveins before where he was digging his way, crawling on his belly, trying to dig his way. Oh my gosh. He did that for three way. Oh my God. He did that for three years. Oh my God, it had caveins like that? Yes, complete. I mean, that never fly nowadays, but my dad started in the, he was born in 53, so he started in the early 70s, [1:050:00] and he went into the early 90s. So he was at that unique time where there was still some of that old time stuff and then it was transitioning into the modern day minds, today where it's just underground cities. When he left, he was the Long Wall Boss at Federal Number 2 for Consol, and that was the biggest Long Wall in the world at the time and I mean that that mine it stretches like like over a hundred miles underground you know it's from Western it's like from Western Monk County to damn near the Ohio River like really yeah and that and and that's a small that's small to compare to what people are doing now. Really? Oh, they got minds in like Utah where because of the elevation of the mountains, they can almost they're like dry, they can drive in to a seam of coal and automatically be like, you know, already 10,000 feet underground because of the height of the mountain above them. [1:051:03] And then it's like 16 foot seems a colon and stuff like that. Things have gotten, you know, the stuff that my dad started out in is just a thing of the past. So when your dad was doing it, he was, would you say 27 inches? 26 and a half. That's what he told me. And so you just on your back chippin' colon out? No, they would, I mean, they would have machinery. They weren't doing that by hand. But, So with machinery though, you're crawling on your stomach? Yeah, crawling on your stomach. And then how are you getting it out? Would have been conveyor belts or something. Oh my God. Yeah. And you're just in that entire enclosed environment. Crawl, yeah. Really, day long. Yeah, I would be freaking out if it was that Oh my god. I mean you're dealing with caveans. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. I had no idea there's mines that are that big There are hundred miles. Oh, yeah, they're they're huge. Is there photos or videos of counties? That sounds insane. I had no idea. Yeah, like they they'll keep [1:052:06] Yeah, from what I understand I think we got mines and that start in Western Monk County and go all the way to Wetzel County, like over close to the higher river, huge. Wow. And and these massive ceilings and they've lights in there and everything. Yeah, you know, lights and guys can imagine staying like pretty much stand up. Have you seen those months? I don't know how it's all the same colors in it. They've had fires in them since like the 50s. Yeah, there's a town in Pennsylvania, I think, that there's like a before and after picture because ended up one like an old mine ended up catching fire and things still like smoking. Toxic fumes. Like everybody had to move out of the town. Yeah, like 50, 60 years later. Yeah, it's still on fire to this day. Just like what? Like how much coal's in there? Yeah. The fires are too deep to burn and too hot to be fought effectively. [1:053:00] 250 years before what? However, expressively the fires under centrally could burn another 250 years before what however Expresibly the fires under Centralia could burn another 250 years for they exhaust the coal supply that fuels them Wow the fires are too deep and burn too hot to be fought effectively. That's insane Jamie if you would check 1962 wow fact check me on like how how long those minds can go Where I was just trying to figure out where should I check for just be like like like long like Biggest minds in the world longest minds just make sure I'm not talking out of my ass Again, I'm a musician They're human just just this is all it knowledge. This is my dad's knowledge that I'm trying to like spit back out. Just make sure I'm talking about my ass. It was a large, it's a coal mine. It's 10,000 acres. Whoa. Yeah, it's pretty big, that's miles. That's fucking huge. 10,000 acres, and it's a mine. Hobart mine complex. [1:054:01] Holy shit, where's that West Virginia I just kept in West Virginia I'm sure there's there's the bigger ones in Colorado. I think they have footage of that I mean it's gonna be a lot underground so yeah, but I like to see it. I just want to see what it looks like 10,000 acres of mines holy shit man That's incredible Yeah, they got some big ones out in Utah. Alabama's got some big ones. Think drum and nose is what I would have never guessed. I would have never guessed through that big underground. Oh, that's a strip mine. That's strip mines. That's different. That's the like underground coal mine footage. That's the like underground coal mine footage It's a hard life man. That's our life Yeah, and in some places is the only thing that's available Certain parts of the country. Yeah, it was a it was a great opportunity for my dad You know it allowed him to to you know elevate himself economically [1:055:02] And you have long problems because of it? No, no, no, no, no, no, he was I elevate himself economically. Do you have long problems because of it? No, no, no, no, it doesn't. No, I think starting in the early 70s, I think they figured a lot of that out. Yeah, I don't think it was as bad then as it was, back in the 50s and before. Yeah, I don't think he has any, long-term issues. You know, Sturgel has a lot of people in his family that came from that too. It's like that is just a different understanding of hard work and of poverty too. I mean, the people that when those minds shut down, that's another sort of similar example. Those mines, if they shut down, the whole town relies on those mines and there's nothing. Yeah, you got ghost towns in West Virginia. Got Jevre read the book Rocket Boys by Homer Hickam and then he made the movie October Sky about it. Do you ever watch that? No, what is it dude? [1:056:07] It's an incredible Bailey mind Holy shit. There you go What it's what causes coal It's vegetation and pressure over millions of years, isn't it? Is that what it is? Thank you Wow and pressure ever millions of years, isn't it? Is that what it is? I think. Wow. Wow, it was fucking life, man. Underground, just using machines to cut out chunks of the earth that people are gonna light on fire. And then most people wanna ban that shit anyway. But meanwhile, China, we're just looking at how many, like when people are talking about we got to stop people from eating meat to save the planet pitch you need to pay attention to the world because most of that shit's coming from China there's more than a thousand coal mines in China. Yeah there's more tonnage of coal being mine now than ever before in history. [1:057:01] Crazy. You know that's crazy. Yeah. It's a complicated world with a lot of like really narrow-minded narratives. Like a really a lot of confusing things that people repeat that they don't really understand the whole depth to what they're saying. Yeah. You could close down all the minds in the United States and that demand for that coal is still going to be there and it'll just get mine somewhere else. Yeah That's not to say that maybe you know they'll come a day where coal probably becomes a thing of the past and isn't used anymore But yeah, you know once they run out of it. Yeah, once they run out of it Or you know they think it's something better, but it's just you know Just then we're gonna have to deal with earthquakes and sinkholes Carve these huge. Yeah, pockets pockets out of the earth and things are gonna collapse. Yeah, yeah, they in you know at the end of the day if that's not gonna that's not gonna solve the world's problems if they just shut all that down the US overnight. I watched a video of a coal mine collapsing in China and it was [1:058:01] horrifying. Met my friend Tom Siger and I, every day we sent each other a worst shit we find on Instagram. It's very traumatizing. It's like, I'll show it to you. On my phone after the podcast is over, you're gonna go, what the fuck man, every day? Every day we send each other car accidents, gunshots, animal tax, over and over and every day. Every day some new shit yeah and one of them was this insane cold explode does is it this is it so these people are working in this oh my god yeah they just get engulfed open pit coal mine collapsed four people injured six missing 49 others. Yeah. Don't get 53 folks. They're dead. Yeah. They might be missing their dead. Massive landslide. Wow. Yeah. Well, let's ring your digging into the fucking ground and create instability. Scary shit. Yeah. Yeah. [1:059:02] That's it. That's insane. Yeah. the people want to stop coal mining like I understand But you have to understand how much of that is going on outside this country and we detailed that yesterday One to this sort of a deep dive on it that most of it is coming from China Most of it's China and then second places India United States is Minimal in comparison to what's going on over there. And they're not gonna stop. They don't give a fuck. They don't give a fuck about what you say about the environment. Like what? Yeah, over there in Paris, like when they're all having that conference, like they don't get shit about. Yeah, but they're saying and those things. Well, it's crazy when they're talking about climate change and then they cornered Bill Gates. Like you fly here on a private jet. Like what do you mean? It's like, guy, I actually have one of the largest carbon footprints, like, so you're a hypocrite. Like what's your real angle here, buddy? Like you probably have a business that profits from people deciding to take a green angle. And that's really what's going on. He's trying to push plant-based meat [2:0:01] and a bunch of other bullshit. And that's why it's important for him to get that narrative out there about climate change. Just like during the pandemic, he was heavily invested in mRNA vaccines. And then at the end, he sold all his shares and then started talking shit. He wasn't as effective as we hoped. What about what you were saying in the beginning? When you were saying it was really effective, everyone needs to take it. that why is anybody listening to that guy either by the way when it comes to public health You look like one of the least fucking healthy people alive You like as far as people his age he looks way older than he should look He's got a pop belly. He looks like shit. Yeah looks like total shit. Yeah, and That I mean that vaccine thing that was a you know, I had to get that, I had to show that to play my shows. Yeah. A lot of people did. In 21, yeah, and you know, I felt like I had to do it in order to work. A lot of people did. A lot of my friends did, they did it because they had to. People were coerced and then it didn't even work. Then it ended up getting it. Yeah, of course. [2:1:05] And it was fine. It was like a cold for a little bit. Yeah, it wasn't what we were feared. What we were afraid of. And then you realize like, oh, there's a lot of motivation that they have to get a shit out of you. Because that's how you'll do it. Remember when the White House, this is during Omicron, which is like the most mild version of COVID. It was basically just a mild cold for most people, especially healthy people. And the White House put out a release that said, for the vaccinated people, you've done your job. For the unvaccinated people, you're looking at a winter of severe illness and death. Yeah. Which is where did that come from? They're cunts. That's what it came from. You're a bunch of cunts. Yeah. And it's not even true. It wasn't even true. I mean, the number of people that are dying from COVID now, like the CDC is like, we need to get people need to get vaccinated. The COVID deaths are up. No, they're not. Go look. They're really low. [2:2:06] They're super low. And by the way, those people that are dying, they're in terrible shape. They're not doing good already. And most of the people that died, even during the pandemic, they, it was some, some of the age, some of the range of 90% of the people that died had an average of four comorbidities, four things that were killing them, and then COVID got them. And then also there was the thing where the hospital had an incentive to say that COVID-19. Yeah, so and so died from COVID. Yeah. Yeah, when, you know. My friends grandpa had some horrible disease, and he didn't have COVID, and when he died, he died in nursing home. They listed him as a COVID death, and he didn't have COVID and when he died he died in a nursing home They listed him as a COVID death and he was furious. He's like he didn't have fucking COVID man They didn't even test him for COVID, but they listed him as a COVID death. That's that money. Exactly There was a financial incentive to list people as COVID deaths [2:3:00] Yeah, and that's how you inflate the numbers and that's how you motivate people to take that vaccine It's wild man. It's wild what they pulled off It's a lot of goofy shit and then that year year and a half two years Yeah, scary would have the were my wife and I talked about it and we drew the hard line with our children You know, we weren't gonna do that good for you. Yeah good for you because you know my kids were being pressured by Yeah, good for you because you know my kids were being pressured by Some of their their families friends like their their families like their their kids were getting it and their their families We're wondering why my kids weren't getting like hey man. You can go fuck yourself This shit's all totally experimental and by the way the early data very early on it was shown that it's not dangerous for kids Both my kids got it and it was nothing. I mean, nothing. They've had flus that knocked them on their ass. And this was nothing like that. It was very mild for the kids. Yeah. Yeah, you know, just fine. With Tim Kennedy saying, my kids should it out in a day. Or something like that. Dude, you know, obviously I experienced the backlash in the wildest way, because I got healthy quick without the vaccine. [2:4:08] But they came for me in a way that was so stupid, it was such a checkers move, it was such a dumb move, like because you're going after a guy for taking a medication that worked. Yeah. By the way, it was one medication amongst many medications that I said I took. And here I am three days after this thing that's supposed to kill you. I'm 55, I'm not young, but I'm healthy and I work out all the time and I take a lot of vitamins and I'm always fit. And I got over it quick. I was saying, sorry, I can't make the dates. It was about a concert that I was supposed to do with your pill. We were doing shows that weekend. Like we got to move the shows. Sorry I got COVID. I'm fine now. Three days ago I got it. Yeah. And then they, he's taking veterinary medicine. It's like that's when you get to see how corrupt the media is. That they're all on CNN and MSNBC and all these different shows, Strait up lying. I didn't take horse dewormer. I took human Ivermectin that I got from a doctor. [2:5:09] Yeah. A doctor that by the way, they have prescribed that medication over like what three billion times? For who knows how many people all over the world? It's on the World Health Organization list of essential medicines. Big range of things. Yeah. I imagine you got good doctors doctors. I got good doctors that are objective that really understand health. Yeah. They're not just about injecting you with shit. They're about staying healthy all the time. I mean, I've been preaching the the value of a healthy lifestyle, healthy diet and vitamin supplementation forever. So when I get sick, I get it over it quick. If I got sick at all, and the only reason I got sick was, I was out in my friend John Schoeman, who's a shout out to my friend John, who is a pool queue manufacturer. [2:6:02] And I love this dude. And he makes some of the best pool queues in the world And I was in Florida so I got a chance to see him and we played pool till like fucking 3 30 in the morning And I had like five margaritas. That's why I got sick. Yeah, we get that run down Yeah, it's just beat and I was after a show So I did a show at an arena in Florida. So people are screaming. So it's like 15,000 people and I'm in the round and they're laughing. So it's like, ah, so they just a COVID spray. Yeah, you're getting, you're getting, rained on by droplets was a, it was a hot word there for a couple of years. And I was still fine. I was still fine until I got drunk. I mean, I was, at the end of the night, I was pretty tired day I was like, God, am I hungover? I feel like shit. And then it hit me. I did a show the next night with COVID. No problem. Killed at a great time. Yay. See you guys. And then on the way home, I was like, man, I feel like shit. And then I called my wife. I was like, I might have it. I feel kind of shitty. Then I woke up in the morning, I was sweating, I had to fever, I was like, God tested, got positive, [2:7:07] got all the meds, got the IV vitamins, the next day I was like, oh, feel pretty good. And then the day after that, I made that video. I was like, yeah, I'm all right. Yep. And then they came for me. I was like, wow, you corrupt cock suckers. You don't give a shit about health. If you did, you would be saying, hey, look, this guy who's not young, who got COVID and he's not vaccinated, got over it pretty quickly. So look, maybe it's not as bad as we think it is or maybe it's not as bad as your fit and healthy or maybe there's some other options other than just taking this experimental medication that's never been mass injected into hundreds of millions of people in this country. Yeah. But no, they were all corrupt because they're all a part of this industry that was relying on the advertising revenue from the pharmaceutical drug industry and they were all in the pocket. Oh yeah, they jumped in. Dirty people, man. Dirty, dirty monsters. [2:8:00] Yeah, they came forward and you know most folks most folks around the country you know a lot of folks I don't speak publicly on it, but they saw that news that clear what it was and well he killed their credit bill They're they're going for Joe and then just kept you know moved on and never tuned in anyways to watch him Well, there's a lot of people now that will watch those those news reports on things especially medical things and go hmm How much you tell them the truth? How much you, hmm, how much are you telling the truth? How much are you telling? How come you guys are ignoring all the deaths? How come you guys aren't talking at all about the vaccine deaths? How come you guys aren't talking at all about the all-cause mortality spike that's unprecedented? How come you're not talking about that? Are you guys the news? Are you guys some corporate mouthpiece for some company that pays you exorbitant amounts of money to push their shit? Because that's what it seems like. And if that's the case, somebody should probably step in and regulate you cock suckers. Yeah, I was, I just watched the, that the Netflix sort series on the painkiller. Oh my God, it's amazing. I just saw that and you know, [2:9:01] I affected West Virginia big time, big time. But I didn't, you know, and there was a dramatization of kind of the bullet points of what happened there. That was, yeah, it's a broken system. Well, they're monsters, man. They don't care about death. They care about profit. And that is their business. Their business is making money. I mean, there's the people that make the medication and their business is just to make effective medication. They're scientists. And then there's the people that are just money people. And they're just, their businesses sell it and sell it as hard as they can. And their incentive is, especially the Sackler family. I mean, that family is still not in jail. How they not in jail? And they spent six, they gave up $6 billion to try to avoid prosecution. But then the Netflix special, the series came out. And when that series came out, I believe there was a judge that put a hold on the decision to allow them to have immunity. [2:010:00] And they were like, hang on, hang the fuck on. What did you do? And when you see what they did, I had Peter Bergon who made that series. That's serious. He's amazing and he explained it what they did. And he went into even more depth, things he couldn't cover in the series. And it's terrible. It's terrible, awful, evil, demonic behavior. That's an off-the-chain reaction that affected a whole generation. And so many people died, but the people that didn't die, how many lives were ruined? I, in my family, I have people whose lives were ruined. Multiple people in my immediate, in my close family, and my connected family, you know. I know many people who just got devastated by that shit and they're still struggling to this day. Yeah. Try to get off of it. You know, that's the kids that grew up in my grade. We lost, I think, one or two to a couple of accidents and then one to cancer and then [2:011:04] the rest are all as a result of that. It's ended up OD and you ever see there's a real good documentary on Huntington West Virginia. I think it's called heroin. No. And it's just like following around the fire chief of like Huntington and she's just going around just person. This is just like a day in the life and she's just going from person to person, you know, O.D. apartment to house just either saving somebody or finding somebody too late just all day. It's incredible. They did a good job of like showing the reality of it and what it does. If you talk to EMT's, that shit has happened all over the country. All over the country right now, still to this day. And now unfortunately, it's harder for people to get the real pills, so now they're getting this cartel shit that's lace with fentanyl. Yeah. And they're all fucking dying left and right. [2:012:01] We so many people are dying. That's parents' worst nightmare. Oh my God, it's so scary, man. You know, at my comedy club, we had to start carrying a Narcan. You know, so one of our security guys made it imperative to get Narcan to make sure that, you know, like we should have that on. Yeah. Fortunately, we haven't had to use it. We haven't had anybody overdose during a show, but we did have a lady go into a K hole. She's taking ketamine. This ketamine for whatever, this fucking people are recreationally taking this insane drug, which is. You can order that on Amazon. Can you? I think so. I think you get that on Amazon. It's wild. Yeah, I don't know if they do do I'm pretty sure it's so potent man get it like a vitamin and so they're doing like this nasal spray. Oh my god. We're doing nasal spray and it's legal in some weird way like it's there I mean therapy. Get me therapy. He's getting blasted with ketamine all day. These people are cat I know people that are claim sober. Yeah. But they're on in therapy and they take ketamine for therapy. Like, bitch, you are not sober. [2:013:06] No, you just, you're cated up all day long. And it's just part of a different way. So I have friends that love it. They love it. I'm like, get that shit away from me, man. John Lilly, the guy who invented the sensory deprivation tank. Have you ever used one of those? No. Oh they're amazing. We have one here. I'd be interested to check that out. It's by itself without Academy and it's really great. You don't really need Academy. But John Lillie used to do it with intramuscular ketamine. So he would inject his thigh with a blast of ketamine and then lie down and just go. Going to this other dimension and communicating with beings and it's like whatever the fuck happens when you take ketamine. And meanwhile people are doing this regularly. At a comedy show. I had it out of the show. And this lady just fell down and just blacked out [2:014:01] in the middle of the show and everyone's like, what is she on? What is she on? And the boy friends, like ooh she took some kid of me like she's in a K hole middle of a comedy show damn probably about Dunkin's on stage Man I love a Dunkin's cartoon There was a man I don't know how the fuck they canceled that yeah me and my bama's like that adventure time, right? Was it called? Yeah, he did a monologue. Was that what it was called? I can't remember what it was called. No, that's not what it was called. Adventure time was like the same guy who did it, also did Adventure time. The night gospel. The night gospel, thank you. Yeah, oh my God, Duncan's great. Yeah, no, it's incredible. He's like I said, he's such a unique guy. And when he moved here, I was so happy. I was so happy. And he's so happy too. You know, Austin, such an amazing place. You made it like, it's like the epic, it's like the center of comedy right now. Yeah, we, uh, when we built the mother ship, that was the goal. I never thought it would work as well as it did It was just kind of like let's try. Let's give it a shot. You know, we're here [2:015:09] I'm not moving. I got out of California and I'm like I'm not going back Every I've got out of California early. I saw the writing on the wall in May of 2020 So the the country shut down in March and I was like well, you know two weeks the You know flatten the curve and then and I was like, well, you know, two weeks, you know, flat in the curve. And then when it was like a month later, I was like, what the fuck is going on? I'm always distrustful of authority and I'm always distrustful of narratives. I just, I don't, there's just too much bullshit in the world and I've read too many books. Yeah. I've been, I was being exposed to too many conspiracies. I went too far down the JFK rabbit hole and the 911 rabbit hole and the fucking NDAA and the fucking The Patriot act and I'm friends with Alex Jones, right? It's filled with conspiracies you know with all this Epstein shit [2:016:01] Alex Jones taught me about that a long time ago. He's telling me about that. And I was like, come on man, you're telling me there's an island where they take elites and they film them having sex with kids. Come on. He was right about that one. He was 100% right about that. He's right about most things. Now Alex is just unfortunately, he occasionally goes down the wrong road and he did with Sandy Hook and you know and so people always point to that but he's a human being you know and people human beings make mistakes and he made a horrible mistake with that but he's right way more than he's wrong and he's right about all of this shit he was telling me about the world economic form a long time ago I'm like what power do they have what are they gonna do and now you see these fucking people like you own nothing and you'll be happy like what? Yeah, that European guy Yeah, we have a photo of him in the bathroom. That's you know, that's kind of bad. I haven't seen that now We've got a photo of him with the full Darth Vader's garb on like what he's literally telling you what he is at every step he's talking like this. It's like it's too much on the nose. [2:017:06] Like if he was a bad guy in a movie, you would like that's too caricature-ish. No one, no one's gonna be that obvious. Dress up like Darth Vader, talking to German accent, and then try to control the world and get everybody to give up their cars and eat bugs. He's like a villain in a comedy. Amazing. You know, that goes back to like the Bill Gates thing too, where he's jetting around, but then he's preaching to you. Yeah. You know, you should do this. You shouldn't do this. Yeah, that doesn't apply to me though. He's preaching about health. This folks are a big fan of that, aren't they? Yeah, they're a big fan of that. A big fan of, yeah, meanwhile, they were all eating meat. Like one of the reports of the people that went to this thing, they're at this conference where I was eating chicken and steak and they're talking about how people need to stop eating meat. Like what the fuck are you saying? This is all bullshit. This is all just control. It's all of your Anthony's song. Yeah, that's what it is. [2:018:00] He's a great example too, right? Like that guy's first gig that he ever did was in front of like 14,000 people. Did it like a farmer's market. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. The state fair I think it was. Like a farmer's market. Some like that. Yeah, I think it was like a farmer's market. Yeah, Jamie was telling me about that. He said when he heard about that, he got over there to try to, you know, protect him from what he knew was coming his way. Yeah, I helped him too. I got him on the phone like early on. He was like, well, people are telling me that I should sign this and say, I go, listen to me, man, don't sign shit. If they're doing that, they're just trying to catch you when you're vulnerable. They're trying to catch you when you're vulnerable and they're trying to lock you up with some sort of a contract. It's like, well, people are saying that if I don't act now, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no million dollars that means they think they can make ten or twenty they're and they're gonna make it off of [2:019:08] you more than that and you're you're gonna be the one that gets fucked. Don't do it you're the one with talent you don't need anybody man. Yeah you already made it you already got through people already realize that rich men from Richmond Richmond North of, that song is so goddamn good. People heard that song, they're like, holy shit. Yeah, connected. Connected. Yeah. Dude with a guitar. When you got 10,000 folks that'll come see you anywhere you're at, you don't need anybody. You don't need nobody. You don't want any weasels and vampires like, like, like, Zach song, cold, damn cold vampires. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that song. That's the thing man, finding the right people to work with, you know. Yep. And it's honestly, it's one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle if you find good people to surround yourself with. 100% good people in the business aspect too. [2:020:03] I've had the same manager since I was an open-micre. I have had the same manager for 35 years. It's amazing. 34 years? 34 years I think. That's best case scenario. Yeah, I've been doing comedy two years when I met that dude. Yeah, rather than having like the cooked up manager, that's like, oh, don't worry about your taxes. I'll take care of that. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, there's a wide... So you should invest in this company. Yeah, there's a wide spectrum. A wide spectrum. And you find yourself with good people. And that's half the battle. Yeah. It's having good people around you. Yeah. And, you know, it had been... I just met all of a real brief backstage at the opera just one night just said hi. So I don't know him, but I can only imagine what he's going to be fine as well. He's a good dude. He's a good solid dude. He's going to be fine. Among them, he went to the mothership and when Thompson Girl was there, he went up on stage [2:021:03] and performed in front of everybody. And they went nuts. They went nuts. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. No one expected it. Tom got off stage. He was like, I'm gonna bring somebody up and bring us up all over Anthony. He went, yeah, they went nuts. I'm done. He's fucking living it, man. It's happening. What a dream. I mean this guy was like selling farm equipment, you know? Yeah, like seven months ago. Yeah, whatever you have in it. And now he's a giant superstar, but he's a cool motherfucker. He's a genuine nice guy and he's really gotten into the Bible. And with that's it's really crazy. This guy was like smoking too much weed, drink it all the time, waste in his life, and then has this like a piphony of like giving his life to Christ. And then within weeks, his song comes out within weeks. And all of a sudden he's fucking huge. It's like he did this thing where it's so cliche, it's like in the movie, like I'm going [2:022:03] to change my ways. And then it all happens right after that. Like it's hard to know what to believe in, but it's hard not to believe when something like that happens. Like you tell me that's a coincidence. Are you fucking sure it's a coincidence? Cause I'm not. I'm not sure. Seems like he's kind of like a messenger. Like something connected in him. Like whatever you want to say, whatever name you want to attribute to it, whether it's God, whether it's love, whether it's the universe, whatever it is, something got inside of him, and he changed his life and he changed his mind, and then he started changing the world. Yeah, yeah. You always also, you gotta be aware of anybody that says they know there's nothing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, where you don't know there's nothing. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. I mean, that's the face. It's either faith or don't have faith, but yeah, nobody knows. [2:023:01] But also, like, you can't dismiss positive experiences. You just can't. Who the fuck knows what happens when you die? You do not know. And then when you think about the history of the Bible, and you think about the history of the human race, the human race was essentially almost wiped out somewhere around 12,000 years ago. Well, these stories all come from before that. These stories were all oral traditions. They're all so similar to like the stories of 6,000 years ago, like the epic of Gilgamesh, it's so similar to the story of Noah and the Ark. There's so many stories. They're just like, there's got to be something to this stuff. Yeah, it's coming from something. It's coming from something. Somewhere. Yeah. There's so many parts of it that resonate with people still in their core. Like when they think about what, when they have feelings of love and companionship and they see beauty in the world and they have these moments, they say, God damn, I know there's something, I don't mean to say God down there. [2:024:02] But damn it. I know there's something there. I'm connected to something. There's something there. Yeah, then you know, I have faith and go to church and I think it helps me You know and I'm not I'm not pretending to know anything that's for sure, but you know, I choose to I choose to partake And a lot of the people that I know that choose to partake and choose to behave the people I know that choose to partake and choose to behave in a way that is inspired by that live beautiful lives. I think there's something to that. Yeah, if you come from a place to love and just trying to be the best you, you know. Yeah. What, who's it hurt? That's exactly what I feel. Can we leave on one of your songs? Can we, okay, let's say which one? Let me think. A minor impressions. Minor imperfections. Let's leave on that one. That's a beautiful song. That's a beautiful song, because we've been talking about minors. Let's leave on that. Can you play that, Jamie? I'm gonna wrap this bad boy up. Tell everybody how to get a hold of you social media website. Yeah, Charles [2:025:06] Wesley Godwin my website Charles W Godwin has has everything anybody would want to find all the dates all the social media the albums and do you have any days coming up in Texas anytime soon? I think I'm think I'm down here with Luke, St Antonio and August were playing whatever the football stadium is down there. Oh cool. I'm one of Luke's openers this summer. I love that dude too. He's awesome. He's awesome. Yeah. We played a show way back before. Yeah. He was even going. Yeah man. I'll apologize, Jamie. I just kept rambling. I know. I kept rambling. Let it go. I wouldn't leave you with this lady, gentlemen. Much love to everybody. Bye. Thanks for having me, my man. My pleasure. until those halls are full But long walls don't run on nine to five [2:026:09] I didn't get it then every day that man would fight The puns to clock can make it home alive He's got minor imperfections Play me it on his roots, Calluses on his hands, Codus on his roots. He's not a world for conversation When theirs work to do. Bad boss said he'd paint and cash, Cup in these scripts and news. MCD folks would shame on me if he let them But he's proud of his minor infection [2:027:10] He's been by and I grew up his brown hair faded white He's summed up his up every