1 month ago
Michael Philippou is a co-director of the horror film "Talk to Me," available now on streaming platforms and in select theaters.https://a24films.com/films/talk-to-me
Danny Philippou is a co-director of the horror film "Talk to Me," available now on streaming platforms and in select theaters.https://a24films.com/films/talk-to-me
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Identical twins mirror image. Yeah, Michael's the dumb twin the unreliable twin arrogant twin We're here on the Joe Rogan experience. I'm sorry like yeah, okay. It's very surreal. I'm a fanboy Yeah, we got young Jamie over there. We might pull some things up and we're gonna talk about DMT and elk me Did you guys prepare for this I Don't know yeah, Mike was like we're gonna be at the Joe Rogan podcast and all of your guests are really um Smart I feel like people would be dumb about listening. There's a lot of dumb ones too. Don't worry about it. Okay? Play loose we're in so Tell me about you guys the the background first of all, how did it come that you made that movie? Well, uh, we've always wanted to make films or ever since we're like little kids that your first like real film That was our production. Yeah, it was awesome It was so weird that you posted about it. How did you hear about it? I was just flipping through I think it was just flipping through like the current movies on Apple on Apple TV Yeah, I saw my daughter loves horror movies And so we would like to watch horror movies together and I was like, let's try this one And we watched a preview and she was like, oh it's good And then I watched it like that is a really good original movie. Fuck. Yeah, fucking scary shit It wasn't like any other movie I wasn't like oh this is like 28 days later or this is like The Exorcist No, it's like very original. Yeah, it's something we've been like building towards making a movie for forever Like and we've been writing scripts forever as well. We had a YouTube channel So we started off like making stuff as little kids. We've been obsessed since we're seven years old with like making stuff Even before filming we just write draw movie covers and shit like that and pretend where we We'd like play act through a movie and look at the time and like act for 90 minutes and then draw the cover For that like we were loser kids Yeah, I remember even in primary school that to bring my mom in they're like we're really concerned about Danny cuz I would draw the Most violent fucked up, you know movie covers or just just like Someone else lit off trying to figure out different ways that I could kill these stick figures or you know Yeah, like it was like and then like we had a group of friends who had the same age like 12 15 kids Same age in the neighborhood. Yeah, and we do two things together We beat the shit out of each other like backyard wrestling and then we do make movies and like that's what if you if our friends Would the hang out with us they had to do it like I feel bad for them and then like they come together And we just fuck each other up and then we'd like film movies and stuff So you've always been interested in some kind of filming and something and and so you started off with a YouTube channel Yeah, well, well initially we're just making stuff with friends and then a TV show was called to Muffy 96 episodes and where was that? That was just Was never on TV We would play it for our friends older sister Nelly and she would just premiere it for her and And as we got older all of our friends are growing out of it and we're like why are you still doing this? It's really immature. Everyone's growing up getting jobs getting girlfriends and we're still trying to make movies Yeah, we organize like a big weekend with everyone but everyone was 18 They'll go like in Australia you can go out when you're 18 and we're like look guys We've organized this weekend filming like trying to organize all these people and they're like, ah, no, I'm fucking going out What the fuck? Yeah, we had to We were doing a media course like after high school didn't know what like like, oh, let's just pursue this thing Even though film industry film isn't a thing in Australia. So we'll just filming stuff. It's a thing but it's not No one looks at it. Like there's no entertainment It's not like you go first time we went to LA and everyone's talking about scripture. I call you fuck It's like a real it feels like a different world almost or an impossible job Yeah, that's cool. If you're like, I want to be a filmmaker teachers are like what you need to be an electrician I know that was one of our teachers like you should be electrician or you've got to pick a trade because it just seems It seems impossible. You know as a kid, it seems impossible to yeah, but I was like pre youtubes sort of stuff and then like we were Doing like I was doing like just like work experience jobs on movies just to get experience Like cuz no one will turn it that no one will ever turn away like a free pair of hands and I'd always be like I'll come on set for free. Just let me I just want to like I want to see everything how things work So I worked with all different departments and a lot of people that we worked with We used on our movie because I remember like the ones that were like there for a reason like they're like excited to be there versus ones that were like, you know, like depressed and like don't really want to be there just like a paycheck thing so like I remembered like certain people caterers grips all from different departments and I was like, I'm gonna Use these people when we do a movie also made the good ones. Yeah If you're on a film set like when it's like We're like the crew morale is so big like if you have like everyone clashing and work gets each other Oh, that being said I think we did piss off crew at a whole bunch of times it out Maybe because it was supposed to be an eight-week shoot at turn to a five. But anyway, you're just skipping ahead man Boy, I'm just saying but yeah, so we went to Wait before that so we had to finish this series that we did and no one wanted to do it anymore Everyone had grown out of it. So we started just finding different ways to express ourselves We could never get a normal job So my only paid job I ever did was yeah medical trials checking into hospitals and testing out drugs that went on the market Yeah, yeah, you did that. Yeah, I did that for two years. What they test out on you I stopped listening, you know, I was like, I'm trying. Yeah. Yeah, that will tell me that like oh this could happen This could happen and I was like, I just give me whatever I don't give me some money Danny would have crazy like side effects I it was like yellow once. Yeah, so you know now. Yeah. Yeah He was like he was like once he was like we're all we have a yes Do we have always shaking but Danny was like once he was like this like I went to visit him He was doing like shaking and I was like here I guess side effect of the drug It was like a muscle tremors all up through my arm. So I just couldn't physically. Yeah, just what was that drug? I literally dude I did not listen to her that would tell me that would send all these big pamphlets and we have to sign a bunch of Shit, but I would never listen. I would never know what I was there for I would never do Concern about doing that. No, it was more excited to get the time 18. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah Yeah, you shouldn't let 18 year olds make that decision Yeah, 18 to 20 is when I did it Well, yeah was a way for you to like make my digital and meet like people because there's a lot of interesting people that would go Through there. I just hate injection So I don't know I also didn't try and get over my fear for injection because once they take you like administer the drug They have to like get your blood every 15 minutes So like they'd put the cannulas in their arm in your arm And they just keep taking out blood taking out blood and just testing whether or not things would go wrong What was the worst side effect you got? Yeah, he grew a third eye. Oh fuck. I've not didn't I um, I Remember there was there were administering it with like a cannula It was it was a drip. They were dripping the injection of the at the drug in and it was really fucking hurting and usually It doesn't hurt usually I just like take it or you know, they would minister it I didn't really feel anything but it was painful and it was hurting was hurting. I was like, oh god. She's like you're right Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. You can keep yeah. That's like oh fuck that really drills It was like felt like someone was punching my arm. They miss the vein. No, no, she it was like whatever had happened Was my whole arm went paralyzed and I was like, dude I I'm like I can't I can't I can't move I can't feel my hand I can't move my hand. She's like I will just squeeze my fingers She put a finger there till we try and squeeze it and I'm like, oh, I literally can't do it So she said that I quickly take the drug out and they took the drug out and I was just sort of sitting over paralyzed arm And it probably sat there for like an hour and once the drug had worn off I got my my feeling and you don't remember what that drug was fuck. I'm so sorry I really I could dig it up my emails probably but yeah How many different drugs they trying you I well I did have a two two three years So over ten drugs, I'd say different things. I tried it was like you go in there for like like group Like sometimes isn't like for see I was doing the work experience and said but mine was free So Danny would do the stuff that got the money. Yeah, well that Was the longest time I was in hospital for it could range from three days in hospital to two months So yeah one time I was in there for two months for what? For the drugs so you just stayed in the hospital for two months while they administered drugs. Yeah Yeah, and then they pretty much just wait to see what the side effects are gonna be if they think you have to sleep in The hospital and stay there. Yeah, you just stay there over. How much they pay you for something like that? 150 bucks a day 120 bucks a day between Australian so so what is that hundred us or something like less than that? Yeah, $90 USD a day for months. Yeah once two months It is crazy like there was that famous case I don't know if it was in where it was but the Patience because they do it like in a row they'll test one person and half an hour later test another than another right and Then people started dying off and like then you Going down the line because like someone died The last guy they go in they go look yeah, you're about to fucking die. Yeah, look no. There's this side effect There you probably people died what I got it I don't know what story specifically this guy's talking about but the trials that I was checking to no one died the worst one I heard of was they test it on mice before they test it on the humans and They had to bring everyone back into the trial and say hey guys And I heard this from a friend that recommended the trials to me he's like guys we don't want anyone to worry, but I'm some of the mice have gone blind and Yeah, so everyone was sort of waiting to see if someone was gonna fuck up their sight But it was after you'd already gotten the drug. Yeah, well it was afraid. This is a friend's experience Yeah, they'd had the drug and they brought everyone back in like a week later and they said some of the mice have gone blind Yeah, yeah, but you know what was the best part is when? the best part was when Blindness was the best part the best part is when the drug goes wrong and then you get to leave early Cuz you'd have to stay for the two months like I this drugs too dangerous We're not gonna test it and then you get paid for the full amount. Wait, wait, wait That makes no sense. The dog goes wrong Yeah, so like that one when they administered it and my whole arm went paralyzed They realized they couldn't administer that drug to everyone else. So the trial got called off, but you got paid for the full month No long-term side effects. No I Don't know I've never really questioned it until you looking at me like something crazy. Come on, man What's what's it's just the job you pay attention to drug trials and like yeah How many drugs get approved and then pulled because they find me just just after approval? Yeah, and you're way before approval. Yeah. Yeah, you're guinea pig. I was yeah, I was guinea pig Yeah, what yeah it was it was a yeah It's a little bit of a safety net to be like, oh, it's tried on hamsters before. Yeah Mmm, but yeah, it was it was pretty dodgy, but it was anyway that I could make money No, you could get a normal job. No, I got a normal job. No, I'm telling you Joe Yeah, no, mines would never let us do that. Like I could never I Don't know like focus. Yeah folks Like you always just seeing life through like as a movie scene or something like that the one job I had I had two jobs once was for cycling Like bottles and then the other one was I was it was in between the years the media course and I was like I leave I got like a legal job illegally Like rolling dirt, you know, like before they build a house They like roll dirt with like, yeah like flatten earth and I was in that machine on this hill Flattening earth and then I'm I was like in my I was like to make time go pass I was like in my own like imagination world like in a movie scene like, you know And I was just like playing a movie in my head and I was going close from close to the edge And they started ringing like don't talk me on the radio dude. Stop. You're going too far past the you know You gotta go off the edge and I rolled the fucking machine And then I but it was like exciting as I got something happened. I feel like that's more dangerous than my drug trials No, you're rolling fucking because if you if you pay attention Like if you pay attention in your drug trial, you still gotta go blind. Maybe yeah, well, no, no it was It's like that's way safer Yeah But I actually want to check back into a trial now and just to try and get some writing done because you can't you want To do it again. I do want to do it again. Yeah. Yeah, you just meet interesting people in there Like who are these people that are in there? They're dumb people that are getting injected but experimental drugs Don't do that again. Well, I think it's like you can't go anywhere Yeah, there's no distractions you're just in a hospital bed with your laptop So you have to get some writing you just check yourself into a hotel It doesn't work because you could just walk out you can't leave this trial. They will you'll get fucking shot No, you won't really but yeah, yeah, look man if Joe Rogan tells you not to do it Don't do it down. Don't do it. Don't do it. It's advice. Are you guys both left in? No, I'm right-handed We're mirror image. We're mirror image. Yeah. Yeah. Wait. I'm left-handed. Yeah, well, I'm right-handed Yeah, but yeah, the left-handed is your we're split. We're split like uh, cuz we're mirror image But like the like I guess I'm more physical and I'm like the nerd twin Danny's more They're like the brains like I'll get hit by cars for videos and Danny will record it and tell him to go faster If he's not every time we did a car hit we'd have to like we'd step it up a little bit There was one nasty one we did and I was like because I was like, ah, I Know that if it does like half-assed and you go do it again So my car let's just do it like a good and usually I have some performers for car hits because you usually you you are before you hit someone in a car you like break a little bit to like dip the bonnet down and this car wasn't a stunt driver and I was like, I just do it and then And then you hit me and I was like, well then it's interesting thing for car hits where it's like because you lose where you are For like a flash second, you know, it's called getting a concussion. Yeah Wait, do you have the video of it? Yeah, it was extreme. There's a pretty brutal car hit. It was like a brutal one How many times you've been hit by cars? Oh Well two dozen something like that what that that money, but it's like a stuntman muck was a In Australia you have to get certification to get stunt like your son license in America You can just say I'm a stunt guy and then I guess if you're bad, they just won't call you back or something So was getting hit 24 times a part of that Creation some of the stuff was like Martial arts for six months body control stunt real being on set for ten days a letter of Recommendation from an assistant stunt coordinator and a stunt coordinator. You have to get set on fire You have to do high falls you have to get your bronze medallion swimming So there's like a big every there's like five categories you have to do maybe it takes a few years But I was driving like I was production running for a TV show and I met a stunt guy John Wilde and We just like got along so I was like I was interested in stunts I got we've been doing something since we were little kids and I showed him some of our old videos like pre YouTube and Then he's like dude you should get accredited And then he helped me get my accreditation I was like doing some editing for him like some stuff and then for our videos we would get him and we'd create Like we were introduced to the stunt world through jod and like we would work work for over a hundred Performers now and like special effects guys and like and we would create different like our videos on YouTube We'd always go like with a new Like oh, how do we do like a sinking set where we can fire in the set sinking and filling with water? Or how do we do this this rig this stunt rig and we'd like innovate and like create different things So we're looking forward to doing a an action movie because we have a cool team We're attached right now to the Street Fighter movie Yeah for the Capcom video game Hold on do you have video you getting hit by a car? Yeah, let me see this It's good Tell me a better one after this but let's see this one. This is not him the next one will be him Yeah, so this is with a stunt former seeing who could get hit faster. It's not faster So windows fucking going through What the fuck Extremely extreme wet because I've got one that's unlisted If you have it on your phone you can send it to me send the link This is this is the most brutal one. It's a really good one. You will love this one He goes flying if you like car hits man But there's a dip the way that I do car hits is different to stunt guys because stunt guys Like you kind of get the damn link you lean back and you kind of Should be able to airdrop it to my computer. Shut the fuck up and get the link get the fucking link man I'm gonna get the link. I Don't know what's dumber the car accidents or the injections. Okay, but stop performers, you know in films You guys are fucking out of control But you know stuff performers in films, you know, I get run over my cars all the time. Yeah, that's not good either Yeah, no, you don't like the practical elements of filmmaking the practical elements. Is that what you're gonna call it? You know, there's CG fight scene or like a practical fight scene where they're actually, you know, go hard. That's a that's a profession Yeah, you don't want it to be you can always tell see. Okay, I've got a link. What do I do? You can airdrop it to my MacBook Pro. I think Possibly get it up my copy the link and then when you go to share you should be able to airdrop. Okay, gotcha Sure Talk about how dumb we are. No, well, I just think that we always respect when you see things done practically in terms of stunts Whenever it turns to CG, yeah, there's a disconnect right? Yeah and so stop performers that really really innovate their craft or really put their bodies on the line or Build up to a really big stunt. I just For our film for stunt for Street Fighter. We know we want to do a whole bunch of practical stunts Yeah Yeah, and we've started designing the fight scenes already and figuring them out in our head So we're so excited to do what we do in the backyard But with a proper budget and a proper team So your guys are doing all this fucking around and having a good time and creating all these things How does it get to talk to me? So we always wanted to Well shit we always wanted to get into filmmaking and make films the YouTube stuff was a really good way for us to Yeah But it was an accident. There was all like YouTube we just posted because we were doing fake fail videos Like pretending things went wrong when they didn't like sticking a knife into a toaster things like that and just putting them on Facebook And they were going really viral But no one knew where they were coming from. So we create our friends said you should a YouTube channel just to show We like who's making the stuff and we didn't expect anything from it like we were working on short films and things like that and then One like in the inside a year the like the channel got how many millions subscribers a million subscribers And then we're like we're not even putting that much effort into these videos What if we actually focus on it and we went down the rabbit hole of YouTube forever? But the end goal was always film and television. We never set out to be youtubers, but the world's so fun You know and it's instant gratification. You see growth Comments likes, you know, right, you know and and cool opportunities to like go to cool countries and do like awesome you end up just like your taste your trace your chasing trends and you're just Following the algorithm and you're not really expressing yourself towards the end. So that's what I feel doing that Oh, we worked. It was more like you could yeah, like it was like our videos are like crazy like action comedy But stunts stunts stuff that we don't like the movies that we start like watching is very different to the stuff we were making So if we couldn't couldn't do like a deep serious thing on our channel Like because people just click off straight away, you know Yeah, like it's almost a jump through a window like within three seconds could never express myself personally Like I wanted to have scenes where two characters can sit down have a conversation all about YouTube channel We weren't able to do that. But hold on as you say weren't able to you just didn't want to because you didn't think It'd get as much engagement. Well, I think that the audience that we built would be like what the fuck is this? How do you know? We posted some like longer stuff. It's yeah Yeah, you know what? It's actually true We never did like we never went for in that way and tried to do it But we just saw once we had like a minute intro like a slow intro and then you see the attention rate and it's just Watch the whole you were captured by that like so that the attention span was what motivated you to either do or not do something Yeah, because it affects your reach Yeah Taste the algorithm We would never like YouTube would always tell us things that we'd never listen to them Like if you do this you'll get more and get what you mean me you to like someone contacted you Yeah tried to coach you how to do it Well the first we didn't put ads on our videos at first YouTube was like at first like dude Put ads on your stuff for like now. We're not doing this for money. We don't know just artists By cars and we practice medicine Good see you get hit by car the good one. I don't I didn't see it in here unless I missed it It's the very beginning of it Hey man, okay ADD drugs that give you over in Australia because you guys are on some shit Yeah, well we haven't on any medication. We need to be you know To be no no no don't know what you have as a superpower, but it's it's too sporadic everything That's okay. That's okay because that that creates Creativity right yeah, it also does this on podcasts. Yeah, it's okay. That's all right What was the last fistfight you're in Joe fist fight? Yeah, when was the last brawl urine? I'm not really a brawl person, but yeah I want to hear about his last fight. I avoid fights I haven't been in a fight fight since I was in high school other than like an organized fight Oh, right this wasn't high school was your last fist fight. Yeah, like a fist fight with another kid. Yeah, what happened? Why'd you do it? Oh, I don't remember just some bullshit. Did you win? The last one I did but the one before they I've definitely lost a bunch of them. That's how I got into martial arts Get my ass kicked And I always get your ass kicked. What was the cause it was just get bullied You know some kids would find you and beat you up or try to beat you up or yeah Nothing nothing serious. It's like a thing in high school. Hey like you're automatically Tested in your high school, too. This is you right here This is supposed to be like yeah, okay, shut the fuck up and play it Bro do it. It's a dead. It's a dead. Oh Fucking Christ. Oh my god, dude. No helmet. No padding Oh It's like kids at home. Don't try this. Yes No Yeah, it was parroting that stuff of like people get mad at you because people are trying to imitate what you guys are doing getting hit by cars and saying that it's irresponsible, uh No, because our stuff was always like that that one was paying out YouTube like trends like that like the type of challenge and things That was like paying that out our stuff was always like a Filmmaker like it was like it was like it was like stunts and things but it was done through like it like it see like a movie Scene and stuff. It wasn't like got it Jackass where it's like just go jump in front of it I'd like 64 times. That's okay What's your problem? Do I have to like lay you out in front of Joe right now? Like you can give it a shot would you start commentating if me and Marcus are brawling right now? No, I probably separate you Oh, that's very nice. It's responsible of you. It'll be jump in. I don't want you to break any wires Would you would you you know how there's the influencer boxing scene? You know should they do something like that in UFC where different people that are more behind the scenes fight each other No, you versus Bruce buffer. No, would you watch that? No, you want to watch people fight that are actual fighters You don't watch people fight dude. I feel like if you were gonna fight Bruce buffer that would sell really well It was my friend. I know but That's an example, but you know, I mean people would want to watch that Yeah, but that's that's like that's like a thing where it's like the YouTube stuff is yeah You guys are thinking too much about likes and engagement. Yeah Let's get back to talk to me. So my friends with Israel out of Sonia your friends. Yeah, I love that dude He's the fucking coolest motherfucker in the world. Yeah, man. His brother. Have you met David? He's brother I've met him when he was with Israel, but not like he is the funniest guy ever their whole family's Oh, they're so cool man. Like is he? saw like we met him through talk to me and then we went to his premiere for his documentary and stuff and then like I Used to watch him fight knees of fury and Adelaide in South Australia. Oh, wow So I was a fan of him way back when I remember him like just the first time I saw him fight He was main event and he was fighting the champ and I was like, oh man I this guy's gonna get killed except to Izzy But then is he just flying need the dude in the face like first round just and the guy didn't get up half now Everyone started leaving It was so like Savage and the way that he moves is like and there's like a flow and a rhythm like the last fight We went to the last fight As unfortunate what happened but hit when he came out like moonwalking Mm-hmm. It's like oh man. I like he's got such a fucking vibe about he's the best. He's a stage presence coolest guy Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so awesome. We want to cast him in something. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, cuz I feel like he could act fuck Yeah, yeah and his own stunts So did you guys write talk to me? Did you cut how the idea come about? there was these neighbors that we watched grow up and one of them was experimenting of drugs for the first time and Was having a negative reaction to what he'd taken and he was on the floor Convulsing and the kids that he was with weren't helping him. They're filming him and laughing at him. Oh Jesus So that was the first like that was the first thing that really stuck into my head that I wanted to put on the page There was a guy named daily Pearson who produces a show called bluey in Australia It's like a cartoon kids show. He had a short film that was about kids having fun with possession It was a comedy horror short and he said it was a hand or anything There was a hand or is it like that kind of concept of like using it for fun like possession for fun and everything I said I did a rewrite of the short film and then once I did that I just couldn't stop writing So within the first what like 10 days 12 days I had 80 pages for a script and I've got a co-writer named Bill Hinzman that I send everything Through and we just collaborate in bounce drafts back and forth. Mm-hmm. So that happened around 2018 2019 and then we decided that we're gonna move out of Australia moved to Hollywood Said goodbye to all our friends and family did a big dramatic. Goodbye. We're like we're gonna go to LA and we're gonna sell this fucking script And it's gonna take years to sell it. What are we gonna? Move there to right we went out there and everybody said no every single every studio said no We could get meetings anywhere. There's like a like a low-budget Place called shut out. I'd be like low budget horror films. We couldn't get a meeting in there So being a youtuber comes of like it's there's like a stigma attached to it. If you want to break outside of it There's like a stigma for being a youtuber cuz like people knew like we can keep it an audience's attention for five minutes But our film is so different like people will go. Yeah, you're a youtuber not a filmmaker But then like there was one student that was like eventually after that We reached out to cause way films who Michael did some work experience on this horror film called the bubble Duke Yeah, yeah, so Michael was I was What you were work experience on the bubble dog? I was production or on a well Michael was paid to drive around actors Yeah, it was you did lighting. I did lighting. Do you work experience like an intern? Yeah, right. Yeah, so that so we reached out to cause a films and said we've got this project We sent it through to them. They were surprisingly interested and surprisingly took a chance on us They helped us develop the script further So we did another draft and then but probably after three months of them all ready to go and by then another company in Hollywood reached out and we're gonna make it but they started giving us creative notes that were Pushing it into a bit bit more of a typical direction They weren't bad notes at all But it was sort of wanting to explore where the hand came from explore how to beat it explore who the demons were And it felt too typical Whereas I really wanted the kids to be in out of the depth and over their heads and not understand what it is That they're messing with that was some part of the intrigue of the film Yeah, what is that where they get that and then you don't really explain it that well, which is kind of cool Yeah Yeah Which is what we wanted to do as well as I also seen like typical like what kids would do if they were Partying and someone brought something fucking crazy out. There would be a lot of confusion Yeah Instead of having like clearly defined origin story of it Yeah, like the scene where they go to the library and they dig up the old archive footage or yeah Back in the day of the 18th century. Yeah We had we know what it is But like even the kids they have an idea of what they think the rules are but that's not necessarily the rules That's just what they think they are And everybody's body reacts differently to drugs So one person's experience with weed will be different from another person's experience of weed And so we wanted to sort of have that sort of vibe with the hand Yeah, they've got rules based on like when I do it, you know Like that's it like 90 seconds. You're good, man Like but depending on your mental stay or the way that you read your body reacts to it Yeah, it's gonna be very different So and it's and it's also that thing of like how people If you see someone drunk like you with a friend and they're drunk like you find it funny like someone's drunk at that But if they're like say their family's religious I remember a friend's family who's very religious they came and he was like drunk in his underwear vomiting and we thought it was Funny and then I looked over and his mom was crying like she was like, you know, that's not her perception of it as well It's like that's a that's what it sounds like a devil in the Sun or something Like he was like so like fucked up and it was that that was like sticking as well It's like just different interpretations of what's going on So the kids are having fun with it But there's that kind of undertone of the reality of it's very different to the way that they're perceiving it So when you're creating something like this, like when you're creating the script in the storyline Do you guys disagree with direction? Is it how collaborative is it? Well, I can't ever write with Michael We'll just butt heads too much and we'll start fighting So my my co-writer Bill Hinzman him and I will work on stuff together and then we've got a draft to present it to Michael Yeah It just starts fucking tearing into it saying it's boring and shit If if you like it cuz when you're like creating like the story and stuff if there's no like set ending I'll have ideas and Danny will as well. So it'll kind of be in two different directions I get it could get yanked in two different directions But if Danny does like because we write scripts separately, then there's like the outlines. Okay I know what you're going for and then add notes that way as opposed to like trying to veer into a different thing Yeah and then also writing so personal and you're Exploring really personal themes and Michael and I just don't get that deep and personal with each other even though our brothers We'd find out really awkward. We just don't have that sort of relationship We have more of a working relationship as opposed to and we're just like it's our whole lives is filming and stuff So this but there's like we don't go. Oh, let's go hang out at a whatever like, you know It's we're always traveling together and stuff. We don't like all let's do this together It's always film related So Are you like at the end of it before you start filming? Do you guys have to get approval in the final script? Is it like yeah? Yeah, did they have to give you the green light like what is the process between you come up the concept creating a script them? Okay, we're back so do we like continue the sentence like it was just happened or no Where were we do remember where we were I tracked something down for you. This is one of the drugs. I talked What is it? Can you pronounce that? No Yeah, this is no I'll try to look it up well it says phase one single randomized Open label study to assess the pharmaceutical. Well, I don't even know what this word is pharmacokinetics safety and taller and tolerability of abp 887 Deuterated oh boy dextromethorphan Hydrobromide Quinide Sulfate to get a healthy volunteers. Well, this is what so I I thought I was never listening, but I was listening I said no what the fuck they were saying. That's the drug. Yeah, don't tell stuff like that. I wonder sounds like something They're definitely gonna pull from the market I Sounds like one to get soup How do you even come up with a name like that like oh, it's cool unless it's like on purpose to trick people no I mean it's like scientific. Yeah It's like every how do we get every letter of the alphabet into something that? Sounds like that doesn't sound like it's a what yeah word, but that's one of the drugs I took that was the one where mom got paralyzed sure so that that's okay though. Okay? Where were we we were talking about talk to me. We're talking about the process from going from um Okay, how to get the script picked up to actually sure so we got We got yeah, we got a blackout in the studio, so we got to the script gets approval you yeah managed to dodge all the Obvious tropes yeah, but I remember I got in the studio is the people that financed it were still if you're not directing They said to Sam a producer that I can you what have they done exactly can you send some stuff? But they were still a little bit unsure cuz there's a big gamble. It's so much money, so he sent him the car hit video No Well, we just sent them some examples of a more narrative driven video Which I YouTube videos never really were so it was it was hard I remember we did a short film called deluge before we started the YouTube channel So was there talk of someone else taking it over? That's what they didn't say that specifically And one of the reasons we didn't go with the Hollywood studios because they would have final cut and be able to make changes and stuff and like yeah every single like shot and like sound effect and everything was so like I guess had like a strong sense of how we want it I couldn't imagine having that control taken away from us right so doing it So we went the independent route lost half the budget, and then it was supposed to be an eight-week shoot We ended up it dropped was seven and a six and a five so we had five weeks We lost an extra million dollars out of the budget because we are cast Sophie wild because she wasn't a name yet like as a lead So they took a million dollars. Yeah, but she was great. She was incredible She is the best and now she's doing like she's got a lot like a lot of stuff coming up Which is amazing like it was worth it to us because she was the best like performer and like I've never Man, it's such an amazing experience having someone that's like So good at their craft and like elevated to a Point higher than you could imagine in your mind like we have a strong thing of like how we want it to be You get amazing artists like that, and they just fucking elevate it She was so committed there were days when we asked her not to sleep and come to set not having slept because her character is Losing her mind or she's meant to be enough on that so she would do that There was a scene where she starts like hitting herself and she was so committed She started beating the crap out of herself for real. She was just so Caught up to the character in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she was like, yeah And cuz it was such a short shoot like we had to really and it was it was drink covered was Got like down but coming back up. So yeah, if you get covered then You know, you can't come to set for a week or so it was like survival on set like There was one week we lost like seven people and that was on Friday. I'm like come Monday. There's gonna be no one left like Yeah, we're just like losing so many people everyone was constantly getting tested and we knew if the production shut down Yeah, we weren't gonna finish it. We're gonna make it on budget There was like budget set aside for certain emergency situations, but it was like really really tight So we had to reinvest all of our fees back into the film Our producer reinvested all their fees back into the film to make sure that we could get Sophie and it was just a race for The finish line it was so there was days that we had to shoot eight minutes of the film in one day Was you usually on a film it's supposed to be like on average what 90 seconds something like that Yeah a day of filming. So how did the film get so popular? Well, so we had a was just word of mouth it will we got picked up from So we got into Sundance Film Festival, which is like a really like prestigious film fest one of the biggest in the world Sundance Yeah, and we got into that somehow and then there was I think like word started spreading there So we were getting contacted by Like all the agencies like all these big, you know talent agencies and we're getting like and they were getting people to like reach out to us so we're getting like two three hundred emails a day of Like people like oh sign with us like this thing. So the word was spreading before the movie even no one even saw the movie I think they spoke to the people at Sundance like what's like a buzz title or something and that came up We it was like this chaotic like yeah like a strange Everything we're trying to get achieve in our life like it being in film was like and like it was scratching the door forever I just blew open and then everything was like it's like the most fucking it was overwhelming We spent all of Sundance because we had the crew there in the cast that everyone was just crying the entire time. It was so Overwhelming and even all those emails all these people reaching out all these heroes of ours or all these Companies that you've seen so many products from saying oh, do you want to look at this script? I've looked at this. It was the first time I got so overwhelmed. I couldn't even open emails. I couldn't look or I was so This just feels so real everything. Yeah, Jordan Peele sent a message like randomly and then Ari Aster who did hereditary he came to the premiere and like man It was there was always hype around the movie before anyone saw I was like man I would have rather it be like you no one knows like you just go in not knowing expecting anything But those is really high expectation going into it We were sitting at the back of the theater just cringing man like oh like it was the most painful experience It was it was the first time we're gonna be exposed to critics and like harsh critics You know Sundance and and things like that and We wanted audience members just in the in the theater, but I think it was all just like industry professionals So it was like it was terrifying. It was it was I was troffing so bad throughout the screening thinking it was playing like shit Yeah, people would go to the toilet. They open this the back door and then light would go over the crowd like oh, yeah Constantly people are moving around. I'm like wait. It's the movie boring wise people It's like a midnight screening as well Like they play it at midnight in Egyptian theater was like a big famous theater and like it was midnight So it was late people like a little bit maybe drunk. Oh It was like a whole night. I just have a big really emotional and just dropping a lot and and cringing and dropping In film this is a picture of peaks and troughs peaks and valleys. Yeah, it was like truffing and feeling really down We went up to Arias that to apologize to him off the movie I literally got up to say I'm so sorry you got dragged here because of all this hype for no reason I went to apologize to him. So I walked up to him. I'm like bro. I'm so sorry that and he's like that was amazing I was what the fuck and then he's so you thought it wasn't being received Well, just because people were distracted and moving around or just you guys were hypersensitive I'm a sensitive yeah anything that was like, you know Like a crackle in the speaker or someone going to the toilet was like you know, I'm thinking it was such a very heightened Emotional moment that every small thing I was like this is playing like shit. So when did you realize that it wasn't? Why did you realize that this is a hit when that night our producer said a 24 want to make an offer on the film? I was like, what the fuck a 24, which is we would joke about it on set. Oh, this is very a 24 this film This is a very a 24 shot. Yeah, we're not a 24. No, what's that? So they're a distribute distribution company production company they're like the most prestigious like like kind of indie studio thing like so like it's like they're really selective with their Talent and it's kind of like art films. I can you give me example of a film? Market one of my all-time favorites. Yeah, I've watched that movie like ten times. It's incredible That's another great movie. Yeah, they're gonna stuff Yeah, I love that movie Yeah, we love all these films as well. So they make dope movies. Yeah, they make amazing movies Oh everything everywhere all at once to yeah shit the Daniels So that's the thing we had we were at a party once with all those directors and actors and stuff And I was like we never felt more out of place because they're like, you know, I know we're stupid The then proper film directors we feel so Unsophisticated or on a that's good. Yeah. Yeah, that's just authentic Stereotypical movie making human being to make a great movie obviously. Yeah, I beg your favor Yeah, it's like a thing like I remember Adam Sandell walked in the room and I'm like I'm gonna say something to him. I was like so like I was like meeting you I was like, hey bro, big fan. Yeah, like we're having fun even walk past. Yeah, it was exactly that Michael starts being a Boy, I can't believe I'm here like Michael fuck be professional. What are you doing? Yeah, like we have to like wear a suit and like sip martinis or something. I don't know. No, just be yourself Be yourself be annoying, you know, yeah, just be yourself Nightmare of being ourselves. I have a nightmare of like you like chewing me out on something and then you know Then I'll be your comments on YouTube like hey, you fuck at this fuck As well Nightmare being here So whatever you say like I agree with man, please don't worry. It's working great. No need for nightmares. This is fun So the the film like what I don't like I don't think anybody told me about it I'm pretty sure I just found it clicked it. That's something Yeah, it's cuz we always look in top horror movies and it was one of the top movies it's 90 million dollars worldwide Which is When we were no critical reception as well, it's on like in the like we just stop the problem bragging, you know rotten tomatoes How they yeah in the 90s 94% of yeah, I think that's one of the things that I saw when I clicked on it Yeah, rotten tomatoes really high rating. Yeah, which is like I'll give it a try and then we watch the preview and I said fuck yeah, let's watch this thing Oh hell yeah, it's so interesting and it was so good. You guys nail It was so original like that was the the most impressive thing about it is because you're taking this this sort of Genre would you know possession and demonic possession and and you you turned it into this very unique thing? Yeah, it wasn't like anything else I'd ever seen it was really fucking good man And I'd love the fact that you guys were so young and then it was just it was completely out of your mind You know, it wasn't like you were trying to make some derivative thing. It's yeah good man Oh, thank you that that was the thing that was the risk like when we walked away from the studio It's like that was guaranteed theatrical release And we're like, oh, let's do the indie thing even shooting in Australia was a thing because Australian movies don't make money when we reinvest our fees our lawyers like don't do that Australian movies don't make fucking money He said 8% of Australian films make their budget back But again, like the money thing was like whatever like if we wanted to make the best movie and that was the most authentic thing Was doing it in Australia, but the accents for some reason don't translate even Australians don't like watching Australian movies sometimes There's a cultural cringe. Yeah, cuz we don't sound cinematic. We don't sound epic. Oh Yeah, but that that made it more authentic. Like it really was kids just hanging out partying doing something insane Yeah, I think there's a take on that as well. Like what would kids do if this was real and that's exactly what they'd be doing Yeah, you know Especially now where it's like, you know We will have that kind of thirst for attention and engagement and clicks So your people are doing things to get that horrible things to get attention Even if it's negative what your moral compass isn't developed yet. You're like you're saying oh, this is Popularity even if it's negative, I'm still getting attention and even happen to adults as well Do you remember Joe Rogan was gonna fight Bruce Buffer? How long did it take was it a slow build how long did it take before it hit like 90 million was it like I think It's been cinemas for a while now. It's still hasn't cut in cinemas right now I think every week they like drop it by half the amount of theaters that it plays in And and the way they promoted it was like I think a 24 does more like again this whole world like making stuff where that's Like whole lives but the stuff after all this stuff I have no idea what like this is such a new process for us like marketing and release and all that stuff So I think the way that they do so baller we got a publicist. It's our publicist Oh, man, it was the first time we had like, you know Like our schedules now it's good that we have like management now that like gives us a schedule because we have no idea What's happening every second? But yeah, they're publicity you go to the new thing There's like a list of like 30 interviews that you're doing that day and then like you see I'd like there's some control There was it was it was a lot of word of mouth screenings and yeah They didn't do like billboards and things like that. That wasn't the way that they promote. Yeah, they did like Showing the movie to people that they think would talk about it and then like kind of spread that way I guess it was a word of mouth campaign. Yeah Campaign so it just sort of slowly kept going. Yeah, cuz we didn't promoting it since Sundance because we got to Sundance Which we did that whole thing there then in February in Berlin Film Festival Which is a bit more promo there and then March were in South by Southwest here in Texas And so all those screenings just came word of mouth and then they were just yeah It did really good in South America Like Mexico Peru like all those places they went hard on the marketing. There's a company called silent films They'd made like a giant hand. They'll parading through the street Like I want to get a picture like they had like a whole like a bus stop where it was like For bus stops with like hands in between and like all the road for the film Yeah, I was like man out next time cuz we're gonna do a sequel Mexico, yeah Yeah, even when you're writing something like that you get so caught up in the world and with the characters You can't help but start writing scenes for a sequel and so I had ideas for and I told a 24 I said if it's successful, I would be so down to do a sequel So I just sort of planted the seed and every Q&A that we did and he's like word of mouth screenings You know a 24 should give us a I was always just sort of hinting saying that I would do it if they wanted to do That's a big thing now with horror movies where they have all these spin-offs like look at the conjuring How many movies do they have off of that? Yeah It's a whole conjuring universe. Yeah, it does help solidify things in pop culture If you look at Friday the 13th, you know with Jason or Freddie if it was just one or two It depends like at what point doesn't become like a money grab. I guess is like a thing roots Well when you don't want to do it anymore Yeah You're just doing it for the money or a cool thing I think would be if people want to because they talk about if you like imagine a movie where We get a cool talented like director like Africa writer director And then they do like a version of that world like it like in their surroundings Like that would be amazing. I'd love that because it can be wherever even with the Japanese distributors They release the film really late. It's really release it hasn't come out Japanese cinemas December 22nd But what else with the Japanese distributors I said I was like if you can think of a director that would want to do a spin I would love to see a Japanese That's horror the Japanese horror is the fucking best in the world. They have such a there's something about it It's like a soul in Japanese horror that and I get and culturally as big if you look at so if we got Chuck here and Freddie They're not on that level So the grudge and the ring, you know They're just as as big and prevalent as those things and they all just originate I don't know what the garage is or the garage grudge the garage the garage the garage the garage It's been off. Yeah, we talked too fast. Did you ever see the ring versus the grudge? No, that was a real film Is it really yeah, it was like Freddy. I said you make that movie. No, I would have but yes, there was a good thing about Shooting in like shooting the movie all that experience from YouTube We're able to kind of bring that to the set because it was so weird Pulled things off before that we'd like a new ways to like pull things off that isn't like the normal way so if we were running under the gun or you know had to You know change things up We were able to do it more on the fly because we were in we've been in that environment for so long Once we did these commercials in Norway, right? It was one of the random things We did these Norwegian commercials with magnet Magnus caught the chess player Magnus Carlsen So he was in one of them and it was like it was promoting like an internet brand and we were we went there Oh t-box. Oh t-box. Yeah, so we went there and like that we wanted to have like this Exploding bookshelf and that that was showing us like special effects like and all that little sparks And like no dude, it has to be huge the bookshelf has to explode Massive big it's like 50 of those put together and it's like Yeah, like big and every day we'd see him in pre-production like big has to be big has to be big and then we rocked up Yeah Where we rocked up on set we rocked up on set right and then the the guy the This thing here there that so say what happened was we walked up on set and he's like Everyone needs to leave the studio Well, like we have to leave the same like no everyone needs to leave the studio Well, like wow, what's about to happen and he's like, I don't know And he had lined this bookshelf with a record or something something dynamite cuz yeah We said big so he like did fucking dime out of something on the wall We went outside because I could leave the studio like oh fuck We went out all went outside and we'll huddled around like a like a monitor that could see inside and then he goes three Two one press the button and the screen goes blank. I'm like easy And it was cool. I don't know like we open the studio door and that just steam If you look at that explosion it blows a hole in the set and there's What's what's that? Yeah, what's the background this explosion is fucking huge. Is that really a person in there? So we got a picture we played shot it so we did him like reacting without right Yeah, but did you see that hole in the set? Yeah Yeah There was like big chunks of like wood like just fucking ricocheted like it through the everything and I was like we don't have To leave the sentence, but then when that happened he really delivered. Yeah, there was nothing left for that patient Not selling how big this explosion was but it was fucking huge That was a bookshelf and it was gone. It just vanished. Yeah But like it was good all that stuff was just experienced to be like, you know Like one day there's a montage sequence and talk to me that Whether all like having fun like using it and like we only had two hours to shoot that whole montage sequence And we had 50 setups to get 50 shots We wanted and we wanted to riff and like, you know, just like do improvisation and the first ad was telling us you can't It's mathematically impossible to get all these shots in this amount of time I've been like honest let us control the set for these two hours and we just had a boombox and we'll just like we Had and yeah to cameras like get it out get the freaking good I make up change go bubble bubble We had jibs and grips like and we just like had this like momentum that we're able to like just like shoot this and I think I energy translates through the screen instead of just like, you know set up actually having fun now No, the montage is one of my favorite parts. It was just very creative Oh, yeah, it was so fun and having all the actors riff it and be in that there was it There was a certain energy in the room and capturing it was yeah But then the Sam our producer pulled us aside after that scene She's like this is not how you run a professional film. So no, but she wasn't being a bitch about it. It was true No, it was the truth. Yeah, because the first ad is like what the hell is happening? Everyone's like what a checks. I was talking about checks to worry about this to it I just trying to know yeah, yeah, let's begin to the edit who cares if something's not Perfect. It was like we need to get every single shot that we want for this one Okay, oh Boys, this is a cursed interview Does it feel like something's trying to stop this from happening not really because it keeps starting up again Oh, yeah, we just need a break. He needs to have a little bit of a break every now Joe does that with his guests a shit Yeah, yeah, so fuck out. Where were we? We're talking about the montage sequence. I believe I just say so have you ever recorded one and the you lost all the footage of A podcast no Yeah, once we filmed a video for Deadpool promoting Deadpool And we went to like a junction like a junket like a press junket And we didn't know like we don't really do interviews and things like that and they said ah Just do whatever you want. So Danny went as like a crazy obsessed fan and he had like this long black wig on And we didn't tell anyone that he was that character and then we went and interviewed like the writers and then One of the animals and he spoke to as well and that but we didn't um tell them that Danny was this character So like it was really like an awkward like filming thing and we ended up we knew that we weren't that they wouldn't let Us use a lot of it But we ended up losing the footage and like Our friend dropped the hard drive and then we fucking lost everything Well, we thought we did and we had to tell them cuz they had us in like Beverly Hills with singing We're like, oh man. Sorry, we don't have the video anymore and then they're like, what the fuck? But um, eventually a year later we found the food like a backup of it somehow I don't know how we had a backup of it. Yeah Yeah, and it saved all the footage but it was good because we could upload we uploaded it without approvals Yeah, it was not approved. Yeah, so it was really awkward. Anyway, that was my random story Montage sequence. Yeah, the one touch sequence is good You got told off Sam told us off but in a nice way because she has to keep things on track Oh Sam's the best pretty that was your flexibility from doing YouTube videos you guys you shoot things on the fly. Yeah Yeah, and they have all certain things off even like our makeup a special effects department was so fucking good Yeah, makeup effects group. They're incredible. How did you decide how to have them look when they're being possessed? Wait, I knew that we didn't want it to feel too elevated and for them to feel and look like corpses You know and so out well the light the eyes as well. Yeah, like, you know, when you guys use contact lenses Yeah, everything was practical. Yeah, Claire's big fat sclera's We're you're on like People when they're on like pingers and your eyes changes. Hey, there's my buddy. Yeah, it's Australian. It's Australian term for like a Pingers pingers mate never heard that one. Yeah. No, but you got a red square in Adelaide Yeah, and so yeah, we just want to We we totally set the actors down because Makeup our VFX always looks really odd around the eyes and you can always tell so we had to sit them down and say It's gonna be really uncomfortable But we need everyone to be able to put these proper contact lenses in like we need to be able to do it So he I said I will do it as well. I will wear these contact lenses in a few do I wore them like 30 minutes Like I'm fucking taking them out. They're the most uncomfortable things in the world. Yeah, but all the actors around of it And yeah, the makeup the makeup Bible and also many references of real corpses and real dead bodies and just to try and capture and make it feel really real and Authentic and not too yet not too heightened Was the makeup effects. Yeah, also doing everything practically even with the kid that's pulling his eyeball out of his face We built his face on top of his face So he could you know interact properly and probably got prosthetic face on each side You have them slamming his head against things. So we did it a few different ways We have the way that we initially thought of which it worked But we had some backups just in case we had like a foam cover of the table. So he was just hitting his head on foam And then we did one where we had like a like a head mold made of him and then we're just slamming that into a Rule table and we had like blood tubes going through his head and that for blood effects that fucking kid man up to six hours of makeup Yeah, the kid it just didn't complain once You know scenes where like you have to be in out of focus Sitting on the bed and he has to go through all those hours of makeup and he just did it without complaining Yeah, yeah Aesthetics but it there's something about it like when you do things practically it has like a genuine feel it feels a lot more real I can even if audiences don't understand it like base level like what they look at something will just not feel right, right? Even if you can't verbalize what it is the uncanny Valley the uncanny Valley. Yeah uncanny about what's that? Oh, come on You know, sorry, mate. What's the uncanny there's something off about it and then yeah CGI footage. It's not quite there It's not quite a real person and you kind of know something's off Yeah, even if you you know what it's the same with things with like sound and things like that If you and people will not be able to say what it is If you're not like a like a filmmaker, but you just forget you just feel the uncanny value You know if you ever seen a photograph of a model car and you know, it's a model car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why is that? Yeah, it's your it's true. Like let's let's get an example that get a photo of a model car Like just say model 1974 Trans Am there's something about the model like where you're looking at it and it looks perfect But you go something's wrong. Mmm. Is it the way the lighting of a light? I don't know but it's almost impossible to describe Yeah Yeah, if you but I can tell like if someone sends me like a photo or if I look at it on Google I can look at a tiny photograph on my phone and go. Oh, that's a model cars on a real car You know those miniatures and films when they build a small version of something big. Mm-hmm So I like a like a house that gets destroyed by Godzilla. Yeah. Yeah, but they do a thing called biggatures But they make it a little bit. What are these Jamie? These are model cars. I have it super imposts Yeah, I can't tell there That's trick for talk or there I can tell see what I'm saying It's the light of the night. It's the size of the the ground Yeah, but that's just because of the ground. But if that was on just concrete, it would be the same effect Yeah, it's the lighting and you can see the paint like that one. That's a good example Why can I why can I well, that's a shitty one. That's a shitty model car Can't see for this some other examples Jamie. I Mean other examples on Google. Yeah. Oh There's one there to the right, right Yeah, that's a perfect example, why does that look fake dude, I do think it's because it's clearly on the floor on the ground I think it's got to do with it's there what's surrounding it and the way that the light and also because it doesn't have like the amount of I guess like Like a little creases and light like shining off it then a that a normal car would like a there'd be a lot more light Bouncing I guess right size thing would represent more surface area Yeah, we use variation in the light would represent more surface area Yeah, when we were kids we used to put toy cars and blow them up and we thought it would look cool It's a shitty bird. It really didn't worry. How about that one that red one? Yeah, click on that Well, that's on hardwood. You could tell What's that was when it's composed in like another thing is it's harder to tell what's better than CG. Oh Damn that's a tough one. That looks fake It looks little yeah, it's a little small but why Fuck it's a good question. I'm stumped, but it does Has a plastic look that's why they do the biggatures because it needs to be a little bit bigger than this This is too small, but is it the light the way the light reflects off of it? Does it in your head does it generate this idea of a smaller thing? That's my theory is is that the level of detail and the light? Yeah, it's the light because it's like this is kind of blurry, but still I'm looking at my thelix fake Yeah, click on the ones right there those right there. Okay, those all look fake why? It's because of the background as well like we're clearly looking at something that is a month but that could easily be you know, just some sort of a matte black floor and Black background and they look like they you know what it kind of like you can see the weight It feels you don't feel the weight or something about it. It'll they look light They look like I don't know man I feel like if we put that into a proper background like that of a picture it'd be harder to tell I think so too I think definitely this white car in the left will be the hardest to tell Yeah, for some reason that one seems the most real to me Where is there something about the rough car the the yellow car that just seems fake? Yeah, it just seems small I think it's the detail like the colors just like it's like pure full yellow. There's nothing else like to see it Is that a model? That looks pretty good because it's bigger that's a real that's a one for see that if you see me out It's a one for model. Okay, so It's bigger. So there's more light reflecting right? Okay, so that's it It's sort of like like one piece of like you like that. Yeah, so sure you could be completely completely It's no, but I think he's right. I think if it was a matte car like it was matte paint It would be more difficult to that's why that's why those Lord of the Rings miniatures and big itches the big shit Look good. Yeah, the bigger one one twenty fourth. Oh Shit that looks dude. That looks real to me The seats look the seats look fake, but everything else looks real. That's pretty real. I Know what you're saying though. Oh, definitely and that's the thing with me is that you can never what is that? What is that? Click it We're just getting it cut down a clicking rabbit hole Yeah, we're gonna get it That's what we got on the subject. We're not VFX and uncanny valley. That's the thing is like Remember recording that makeup You have to roll for like five to ten minutes to try and grab something that looks realistic for you know One second you just keep rolling. I'll move that change your eye here. Look over here move your hand up here You're just trying to find those magic frames and lingering on it will take away from the effect We're just trying to stay on it for too long but having those flashes of violence and that's the you don't have that yeah like yeah and Not I think it's also not lingering on things to be like oh look what we've done like and then like lingering on like an impressive Effect or anything like that. I Appreciate movies more when they they show something that's really impressive, but they don't just like keep cutting back to it I was short forever. There's like only just flashes of it You're like right that would have fucking taken forever, but they only showed it for like a second. You know I love that stuff And movie which probably suck for the prosthetic department. It's all this time it was like Yeah, they're like the the drown woman they put all this like effort into it like took a long time to do bloated face everything And she's on screen for like 15 frames Yeah, but it's an effective 15 frames. Yeah, it stays of you longer Yeah, yeah, yeah, and what was cool about doing all the YouTube stuff as well our makeup artist back burrado Who would help us do all the YouTube stuff for free? We're able to get her as a head of department on the film and know that she can pull stuff off Even though she hasn't got the experience of being a head of department in all these other films We could vouch to her to our producers and say no we've been doing this for years with her and she's super committed And she's super talented there's a video that we did where we recreated Mortal Kombat fatalities, and it's the most graphic violent thing ever and she would help pull these effects off Like the crazy Corey Emory as well as one of guys that help us design all these effects Are you allowed to show super violent on here or not really? What? Are you allowed to show super violent stuff? Sure Can you look up? Uh Raka Raka Mortal Kombat Vitality. He's already on it mate. I got a little feather in a Little feather in yeah here. We are. Oh, yeah, there we are. Oh Jesus Yeah, yeah, I seen it So But like all these small effects here like the thing in the studio Jesus But like all these small effects here like the thing in his head But it's those really exaggerated effects when you should do all that stuff you can try and when you're trying to make something Look super realistic practicing with the exaggerated stuff helps. Yeah, cuz then you can do that the bit This is like showing ridiculous Mortal Kombat fatalities, but in real life Very sticky two-day shoot Yeah, you get the idea just Ultraviolet but practicing with those super elevated things helps with the smaller stuff Yeah, like yeah, and you know the way like kind of shoot practically and stuff like we did the it's It's a lot more grounded in and people say that it was like Too far sometimes in talk to me But we're like we could have made that scene go for three times longer He was too far what people like people in a screening people fainted in the cinema. One of the screenings. Yeah Perfect Did you guys love horror movies before you made this we fans of the genre It's always that thing when you're growing up and you're not allowed to watch something it makes you want to watch it My mom was so specific over certain classifications that we can't watch. Yeah, you could only watch PG PG Like medium was a violence no low-level It's different in Australia the ratings But it was like medium level violence low level violence like we weren't allowed to watch but there was a low-level violence Yeah, it was a thrill to defying mom and to like I'm gonna watch this fucking thing But it's different because dad wouldn't give a fuck. Yeah, they split up a little very young He'd like watch whatever you want and mom was like you can't watch anything And we had a grandfather who spoke no English and we take him to the video store and then we get him to get us the R-rated stuff like the adult stuff and then he got told off our dad's like even dad was like you can't get him Ah, you can't get him that stuff And then he got told off and then we got him to get cartoons instead like anime violent anime Like the blood spraying and so yeah, and then he got told off dad's like no that's too much and he's like it's a cut Yeah, I love to I got to be the Exorcist book I let him yeah all those R-rated films He would always buy it for us. He would never understand and then you just say yeah, that's okay It's fine. Yeah, always that imagination when you look at things Like the goosebump covers from our own Stein off you go into the VHS When you're looking at all those covers of horror films now making up Yeah, when you go to the horror film section like in the video stores back back in the day kids You know you go in there and the horror section like what the fuck is happening in there? You're a wild yeah, yeah And then you it was just trying to capture that magic and I remember those always are yeah this fun to being thrilled or watching Something you weren't supposed to see it was too. Did you have one when you were a kid that scarred you? Yeah, what was your traumatic childhood film? Oh, I don't know. I would love horror movies when I was a kid Yeah, you know you never get dramatic Terrifying one well you didn't watch one that fucked you up as a kid no. Oh really no They don't really fuck me up man. Damn. Yeah, we had a lady that used to take us to When we're like 11 to go see the adult movies like the horror movies and she took us to see Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2003 the remake yeah And the theater guys like the ladies like are you sure because they're too young to go watch Yeah, they're fine, and then we went in there and then I fuck I had to leave I felt sick and I felt sick because I was like we're trying to be mature and show that we can handle these movies Michael runs out I was like told ya fucking So scared I had chainsaws of fucking away I literally heard it's fucking chainsaw at home, and then what was even there Well you guys think back now on all these influences and all these things that happened and how it sort of led up to Making films like this yeah Yeah, it's all the resistance all the don't watch this all the telling you what to do so many different things cuz I remember Oh, I even since mom was so specific on what we could watch with the classifications. I started collecting movie classifications I was like oh and like I would break down and have a booklet of different film classifications He's weird. He's one of two bad turns away from being like a serial killer I used to collect things that scared me so fellas news articles of stuff off killers and murderers I would cut that out and collect it in a scrapbook and now we get your mom All the teachers are so concerned like what the fuck is this but also obsessing on and trying to? Figure out what scared about it in collecting it made it less scary or something, but yeah, I was yeah weird Yeah, and then also like if that's the same thing these things that influence you from like early childhood You don't even realize but I think a lot of it has to do with like Like your parents or something like we're affected in ways We don't even understand you know from a such an early age it only comes out down the line That's where everyone goes like and everyone has like the childhood traumas, right? But it feels like you are in everyone has a childhood trauma whether they're you parents weren't there or they were there or they were Nurturing and then you can't go into the real world It's like little things that change you like and you don't even realize that they are the tender garage door shuts anything that happens to You before you turn 13 12 and under it's like it that's with you now. It's part of you So yeah, I don't know. There's all those little things in those influences and references I don't yeah And then I can't and then because it's just things that you are scared of as well that you write into the film Like mental health like it runs in the family like deep depression our mother's Mum can took her in life when she was like six said and she has And mom has like real dark deep like falls into that as well Like so and then you start thinking is that hereditary is I mean why she watch you watch while watching those movies? Yeah, maybe yeah, yeah Yeah, there's so many different things But you look at that and you see a recurring pattern and you're like is that my fate am I and yeah Yeah, it is it is in your head. It is it is part of you. It's part of your genes It's genetic but then also things like I guess like Everything we see is like a film scene or something So it's like always just ideas going at stemming from all different things What I stop when I'm stop writing I have to get into a certain headspace to write I could ever just sit down and be like okay. I've got two hours free. I'm gonna write now I have to get into a certain Headspace if I'm writing a scene where characters are depressed like I feel like I need to get a little bit depressed So when I was writing this new thing that I'm working on It was sort of staying up for two days straight not sleeping watching things that freaked me out and then doing things in real life That would try and scare me like murder people. No, not like murder people like if I was so I would say up all night I remember I would walk around in the neighborhoods at night I would go for drives all night late at night and I have conversations with people that aren't there I'm so caught up in it if I've got a character that I'm writing I can sit down and talk to them in the car So I'll be driving and talking to this person that's not there and then I'm like I remember there was someone that lost their life at this cliff It was probably like 2 a.m. This was a cup like a like a month or so ago I drove out to that cliff at like 3 in the morning and I went up there and I'm talking to Someone that's not there but on this cliff edge and getting to myself into this weird state where I'm a bit freaked out And I was like, okay, I'm talking to this character that's here Let's say someone that we know died here and we're trying to connect with this person It's like alright, let's do it again with that friend that I'm with the imaginary one What if he died and I'm trying to connect with him and run through scenarios In real life and just do things that try to freak me out. I think we've found the side effects of those drugs Yeah, are you are you guys now kind of committed to this sort of genre? Do you want to make all kinds of films? All kinds of developing that see minds different. We're developing Street Fighter at the moment the The video game. Yeah into a film and Like for me, I like going to environments like that So I traveled to Thailand and I was trying to find to get who's the in the carrot in the game He's based on a real person And he still does private sessions Muay Thai So I was like training and I had like little like clues of where he was So I was like traveling around and I training Muay Thai and then speaking with people and trying to find The real life to get and then like that being in that environment just helps you like writing and ideas like that like Immersing yourself in the world Like really helps and I'm talking to people that are like the characters that you're writing. Yeah, they are like I found a family of like 12 kids that grew up all fighters And two of them are like world champions now and they're like they're just like at the back out of their house And they just fucking fight every day and like they had to they had to fight to you know To eat and like I remember talking to one Mimi her name is she's champion now And she's like if I wanted to cuz there were so many kids in the family with such low incomes like if I wanted Something special I need to fight cuz I think that's the only way we could afford it So that world is like it's just so much inspiration that you get from stories. Yeah. Yeah spend time people That's why I think action would be funner What is the horror thing and you're too often going into a weird mental headspace? It's so unhealthy and you can feel it being unhealthy, you know It's like on your mental health Well, I'm like I can feel my sanity slip away if I want to let go of it when you're going to those zones When you guys wrote talk to me, did you try to talk to someone who's had experiences with so many people like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, did you who'd you talk to there was I'm about one friend that went through a really extreme trauma And he told me about this kinesiologist that Made him levitate off this table He's like I and this is someone that doesn't bullshit It's not someone that just says things to say things I really trust with this friend says and he's like Danny I'm telling you I was levitating off the table and I just couldn't stop crying afterwards And he said that there was a demon attached to him and this woman this kinesiologist pulled it out of him So I was like I really want to speak to this woman. I didn't go talk to her. So I Set aside three hours. I bought three hours of her and I said that had a big conversation She's like, yes, I'm seeing these things that are attached to you. I'm pulling them off. Oh, it's a octopus monster It said this it's a that and it felt too crazy and she was doing stuff I'm like, I do not believe this at all But then I look back on this friend who had this really extreme trauma And I feel like he Attached it to that. Yeah, he's like, okay The source of this the reason why this happened is this being that is attached to me and this person I want to believe is pulling this thing off of me now and it's something that's really cathartic about it And it's uh, an emotional thing as opposed to an actual spiritual. What do you think about the levitating part? I think that he was in a really heightened emotional state And so he believed that was happening when actually maybe it wasn't that's my yeah What is the thing like that's the thing with supernatural if you open your mind up to it? I feel like even if it's not happening you Kind of think that it is in your mind Like if you go into a room like we I love saying at haunted places Like if there's a haunted place nearby, well, I love like just go saying oh this rooms haunted my all can I sleep in there? I want to experience whatever if you go into that room and not know and you're just like, you know You'll just have a normal night But if you go in there like oh someone was merging this room a noise that happens at this time You open yourself up to be like hypersensitive to any kind of reaction for anything I remember we I went to this this place called kapunda in South Australia, which is a town of I think like houses that they bring over from like different places and it was like haunted for some reason and the church was haunted and The back room of the church was the most haunted like so we were in this room like 2 a.m In the morning and they're like who wants to go in the back room and talk to the spirit Fred His name is and I was like, oh I will and then I sat in this dark room And we had like these infrared cameras and I was sitting there and I was like talking to Fred. I'm like Hey Fred, do you want to make a noise for it for me? You'll throw me across the room You know, everyone says you're real I don't believe that and I heard like a And my heart just fucking sank And I like I'm I I sat there I was like I'll get the fuck out of this room and I went and just left but if I Had that same experience not knowing that I would have heard and always blackouts whatever right the power of suggestion Yeah, so it's playing tricks on you. Yeah, I Psychic once and I said, how do you how much is it mental perception as opposed to reality and she said When I go into it because she does like room readings of houses and stuff with someone's lost their life or something like stuff She goes like Rids ghosts out of houses and she said I know it's real when I go to a room I don't know the history of the house and I'll fight I'll have a feeling that there's something here some presence Something about a little boy and I just felt that in the in my room and he's sad and all this and then later I do research and then find out that's a little boy died in that room. I Do not believe it That's the thing is if there is if it is rule the amount of like bullshit is around it's like that's 99% Who was the one who was the psychic that died and then they got their wife to give them a code word and they Traveled around to all the most famous mediums in the world and that a code word that him and his wife shared So just say it was energy can They're like go and talk to these psychics these mediums and like okay. Is there a oh your wife is here Talking to her. He's like, oh, okay. Oh, what is she saying a code word? They're like Oh No, well, you know, I can't really kick over disconnected from the spirit now He went to all the most famous mediums in the world and no one should say the fuck well Well, he started doing like a prize pool of like if anyone can guess this That's a different thing. That's a different thing. Yeah, I put a code word up What's the Deanie yes, yeah, Oh zou deene Okay, she moved to Inwood Manhattan She tried to connect with Harry during seances with a code that only two of them knew about To be sure that the spirit medium or not was not a fraud the code was Roosevelt answer tell prey answer look tell answer answer tell I don't so they had like a whole thing Well, we said it the we said do you believe in psychics you think people can I Think it is very possible that occasionally People can tune in and perceive information that's not readily available I think that it's very possible that places have memory and that there's something about traumatic events and spectacular events that lead leave like almost a stain in a place it is feel Strange and I think that sometimes people think about someone and that person calls And I don't know what that is. I would it might be coincidence, but it might not be oh Might be an emerging property of the human mind So if you think about many of the emergency like language, how did it be developed over to even eyesight had to eventually be developed It did you know if single-celled organisms didn't have it These annoying fucking things, but I think that it's Very unlikely that these people that call themselves psychics have any real ability It's never been proven No one's ever been able to do like a psychic medium exercise where they've been able to tell someone something that was Impossible for them. I've never seen anything like that. Yeah, yeah, James Randi used to have that million-dollar thing where that's the one Yeah, yeah I'd say no one ever clean the money. Yeah, okay the money it seems because we've been in so many places and talk to so many people And I've never Experienced it personally. Well, there was one so this is I do was like a more of a magic trick than reality But there was this couple that we met and they were in this room and they said when we hold hands at power of connection Will open the door to the spirit world and you will hear spirits and then we were sitting in the room You This is the first time ever that any blackouts This is the fourth one. Yeah. Well, we have it one more chance Do you have any of those smelling salts? Yeah for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Can I try it? Oh, I can smell it Daddy. No, thanks. I'll find out which ones That's a good one. That's a good one. How do you smell? Just a little bit of- Just get it right on your nose and breathe in. What the fuck? Yeah. What the fuck is that? Get it to him. Dude, are you fucking serious? Come on, you're a drug rat. Yeah, fuck's sake. Get your shit in here, bro. I feel like I caught me peeing. You're a lab rat. Do it. Fuck you. Yeah. I'm not a lab rat. I'm a lab rat. I'm a lab rat. I'm a lab rat. Oh, fuck you. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Let's go. It's like someone fucking lit your nostril on fire. That's what it feels like. That one's been open for a few weeks. You should really try them when they're brand new. It's worse than that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, quite a bit. Dude. Yeah, quite a bit. I mean, I gave it a jolt, but it didn't really go down on my toes. God damn. Yeah. That's intense. Dude, that's fucking crazy. Those guys do that stuff before they powerlift. I guess somehow or another it excites your system. I just want to go for a run. Yeah, there it is. Oh my God. It's rough. I feel like that opens up your airways a bit as well. Does something. Probably not good. They say you're only supposed to do it twice in a day, right? We've done it dozens. I feel like you're starting to play Uno and losing us to do it. At the comedy club, at the mothership, we have them laying around the green room. People are always taking turns taking hits. Fuck. It's become a thing. Dude, that's like the hand. You should sneak it into... It's like the hand. How did you guys come up with the concept for the hand? My big inspiration point was this car accident that I was in when I was 16. I sort of split my eye open here. It was like a really... I went to sleep back in my friend's car. Everyone had just got their pee plates and then he crashed it. Then I went to hospital afterwards with this busted open face. I just couldn't stop shaking in hospital. I was like trembling, trembling. They were turning on all the heaters, giving me extra blankets, doing anything they could to get me warm. I just would not stop shaking. Then my sister came in to visit me. She sat next to me and she held my hand. Then the shaking just stopped. It was just that moment, like the power of her touch pulled me out of this state of shock that I was in. Yeah, hands and connection. All that was in the first draft of the script. It was so prevalent. It was the main theme of the film. It just felt right to be our object of horror. Did you try to... Did you have different ideas about where the hand came from? We've got an entire mythology bible that breaks down everything. Where it came from, who it went to, everyone that's ever had it. We've broken down everything. Every spirit that connected with each kid, why they were drawn to each of those kids, what emotions were they connecting to. We've blocked all that out. Once they were associated with the draft delivered and the script's exactly the same. It's like, yeah, but the pitch bible, the mythology bible is different, guys. They'd have a draft of the script on it. I was like, yes, but this mythology bible. It was just so much fun. It's funny to be on screen. It's fun to explore and have just little hints at the history of it. I think for the sequel, we can explore that a little bit more. But even with the sequel, we're writing two versions of the sequel right now. One that's continuing on with the characters from the first film. And then another sequel idea, which is a whole bunch of different characters in a different country. I don't want to spoil the alert, but I love the end of it. Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah, yeah. Full circle. It's that thing that when you're drafting and redrafting, and you're always figuring things out, and you can strengthen things, and you really follow an idea or a theme. And you just find things like that ending. Yeah, and you punch them all through the script. That's a cool thing, like movies that are layered like that, and like work on different levels. That's the stuff that we liked watching. So when you get to that point in the script where you can really thread theme and stuff and subtext throughout the script, it just makes it feel so much more complete. Normally when we write out Porco writer, we'll just write like 50, 60 pages of scenes, moments, you know, characters, things like that, interactions. And there's no, we're not thinking of, oh, this is the midpoint, this is the characters, this point in the story, that like a film structure. It's just like a world and characters and things like that. And then like a basic kind of outline. And then our Porco writer's like, okay, I've got to try and fit this into like film structure now. And like, this means this, and like kind of navigate the mess. Yeah, and always try and attribute different things with, so exploring things that really bother you. Or like, I remember when our grandfather passed away, it was Christmas day, and our dad was trying to give him CPR, and his vomit was stuck in his beard. Like my dad was giving my grandfather CPR, and my grandfather's vomit was stuck in his beard. And I remember that was sticking in my mind, the vomit in his beard. So even that's in the scene where the dad pulls out the mom who's overdosed and is trying to give her CPR. So she's like tapping into small things like that. Anything that bothers you, just try and express it in a way or put it in there. So yeah, yeah, you know, that's part of the writing process. The whole process of filming it, and then editing it, and then seeing a final draft. Like, what was that like when you watched the thing for the first time all the way through? I remember, because we were editing while we were on set, there was, we have to bump out of a location in three days. So we'd shoot all day, we'd go home and edit all night. We'd go back to set, shoot all day, then we'd go home and edit all night. No sleep. No sleep. A couple of three days in there. Yeah, yeah. Three days for it. Three days for it. Three days for it. Yeah. Because it's sort of like, it's so engaging and stimulating. You have to make sure that you've got every single shot that you could possibly want, because we know we don't have the budget to come back here. As soon as we wrap this location, we're done. That's the only shots we're ever going to get for this film forever. So that was like a thing. And I remember when I edited together some of the sequences, that first possession, I just started crying because I was like, fuck. So shit. I started crying because I can't believe what came out of this. And it's everyone, our cinematographer, Aaron McCluskey, our production designer, Bethany Ryan, our producer, Samantha Jennings, the performances of everyone. It's all those crafts and all those masters putting all their energies into this one thing that makes it more heightened or more incredible than you ever could have imagined. Even like our sound designer, Emma Boarding-Young, as soon as she started doing passes, you see things getting stronger of every single part. I don't know, it's the most rewarding thing. Yeah, you know, the first time though, I feel bad for our editor, but when it came time to edit the movie, I had an edit of the whole movie. Danny had an edit and the editor had an edit. And then he's like, let's just watch mine and give me broad strokes. And we started watching like, in like two minutes, we're like, oh, we got to do scene by scene and then like kind of look at all three cuts and kind of do it like that. So it was like a big process of like looking at what works best for the overall story. I think it's an annoying process because people don't usually work like that. It's a unique way to work. But because we've been doing so hands-on with the YouTube stuff, luckily they were accommodating. All those heads of departments were down. Yeah, like to do that. But we were really involved. Is it difficult when you're so close to something and then you watch it to see it the way an outside person would see it? Because you just you're aware of every detail and how it was made. And is it difficult to like have an objective perception of what the film is like? I say that when we finished it and I'll say, this is really good. We'd bring in someone to watch it. So when we're at the editor, Jeff Lamb's house, his studio is underneath his house. So he brought his son in to just watch it with us. And you could feel when things are sagging and not working. And you need that outsider's perspective when you're not attached to it. Yeah. And you can kind of see it in the body language that they're kind of like, it's just getting fucking boring now or something like that. You can just feel the energy of the room. Another thing you can do is separating yourself from it, taking a bit of a break from it and coming back to it. It's a good thing as well. That's good for writing to. We're also having like a group. Films do it a lot. We only did it once where we had like a bunch of different people come in from like all different age ranges and like, you know, real old person, like uncles, a teacher, younger, like teenagers. And they all come and watch the movie and then like ask, did it all make sense? Is there stuff that felt like it didn't make sense, didn't click with you? Is that perhaps it sags or got boring and you kind of get different import. And if a lot of people are saying the same thing, then you kind of go, you know, Oh, maybe there's something here. Maybe that isn't clicking right now. Yeah. Yeah. But every time we put it together, I was more like, it just turned out so much better than you could have imagined. So like that, I can't imagine the opposite experience when you're like turning it together and it ends up being really bad. Well, it's a nightmare. Well, there was, yeah, we had a, there was a difficult process with the music was really difficult. That was the most stressful thing. Why is that? The movie. I think this is more your fault than anyone's fault. Yeah. Yeah. Because Michael's a very specific. Michael's so specific with music that he edited to a really specific temp score. And so I listened to like hundreds of songs and then like put a temp score together and gave the composer and said, amazing composer. But I was like, this is exactly the vibe of the film. Like, and this is music that we can use or can license as we need. And he's like, I'll stick close to the temp. And there was no communication after that until a week before or two weeks before the score was supposed to be delivered. And I went and saw him and it was, he'd record the whole soundtrack, but it was very different from our, you know, version. And it was just a different movie. And then we had to like, oh, fuck, like we have to kind of start again. I feel bad because he recorded all organically, like all these things. And he's really talented, but it was kind of in a direction that was not what the, our idea of what the film was. Yeah. So then we were trying to have fixed it in time. We couldn't in time before it was supposed to be delivered. And then we went back to mix the movie. And then I was with, you know, I was with music editor after mixing days. We'd start all night trying to do the music and like kind of figure out a way around the music to make the music work. And then when we watched it back, it just was a different movie. And I remember Sam saying, it feels like a different movie. It doesn't feel like I can get inside the movie now. There's something wrong here. And it's kind of that thing of like, you're not knowing understanding why it was, but I knew what I wanted and it just wasn't coming across. So then, and that's what I broke down crying because I was like, oh, it's over. Like it's over. And that we had the tickets for the premiere just gone on sale. This is before Sundance. We did a premiere in Adelaide. The tickets came on sale. I'm like, look at forward to it. I'm like, we have no music. I'm like, I'm not going to the fucking premiere for the music shit. Yeah. You know? But then luckily Sam, our producer, fuck, oh, we love you, Sam. She's like, let's get a new composer and let's, let's do this properly. We didn't get this far to fuck it up right at the end. Yeah. Yeah. So we got a new composer that I worked with and we made this thing come together. Cornell. Cornell. We'll save the film. Yeah. Yeah. He's amazing. And like, I would give man, I feel bad for him. I'd give fucking pages of notes and he just fucking everything. He was so amazing. He's like OCD with certain, with music and sound. I don't even understand like, uh, like a note of here. I know I'm like low low. I, is that called a D or an E key? I'm like, I don't know. It just lower. Do that one, that one, that one. And then like, like, uh, it's like, like a feeling of music as opposed to, I don't understand, uh, technically what it is. But learning to communicate was a new thing. Cause even when Emma would send in stuff, Mark would be like, no, like, like his emails seemed rude when he was responding to her. And it was like, Mark, don't send messages like that. Like you would do it too. Oh yeah, maybe. But it's just like learning to, uh, communicate in a way where like we have not worked with this person before. We don't know how our tone is coming across and it's a collaborative effort. It's such a, yeah, it is. It's a collaborative effort. And that's why movies can kind of, I feel not come together completely if there's all these amazing creatives, but they're going in different directions. So it's like kind of like having it all go to one direction. That's like when everything's working in synced as opposed to against each other. Uh, that's a big thing. And I think that with music going forward, I want to get music started and getting composed in pre-production and like start finding the sound early as opposed to just waiting at the end. Why not have it part of pre-production like everything else is makeup gets time and like, uh, the schedule does, why not the music as well? Like, cause that's such an integral part. Sound in film is massive and people don't understand. Even, uh, it brings so much more than you would realize, you know? Yeah. And it's like finding those heads of departments like Emma and, and, uh, Cornell, people that are achieving things that you could never possibly achieve. And Jeff, our editor, what like we can't accomplish this by ourselves, someone that we can really look up to and rely on. That was better than us. Yeah, it does better than us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's so fun finding those heads of departments and building a team. Well, it seems like you guys are so specific with your visions. It's so important that you maintain creative control. Yeah, yeah. That's the thing is, as budgets get bigger and studios get larger and then the consequences or at least the risk is higher for them, they're going to want to have more control. Yeah. And that's the thing is sometimes these movies, they want to have a creative director, but they have to protect their investment and the way to protect your investment is to do what's worked in the past. So then it turns instead of being like a new thing, it kind of turns into what has worked in the past. Right. And then like, so, but you know, I feel really grateful. A24 is we don't have to worry about that because A24 moving forward, like they're so fucking, they're like a family. Like they, they don't feel like Hollywood execs or something like that, where they're like, just like thinking about, uh, money and capitalizing on money. They're all about the director and director's vision. So they will give creative car that creative final cut to us and like say they, they trust us. Well, they certainly should now after that. They guys know what you're doing. I mean, it's, it's really good. But until the next movie comes down and shit. That does happen occasionally. Like M Night Shyamalan, like he has that amazing movie in sixth sense. And then the movies after that are just like, Oh, that was pretty decent. I liked Split. I liked Unbreakable. I didn't see Split. Unbreakable was okay. Yeah. It's just the sixth sense was so good. So incredible. It's so hard sometimes when your best one is your first one. You got nothing after that. And then like there was the one with Marky Mark where the plants were killing people. Okay. You know what happens sometimes? You get, The fuck am I watching? The fuck is this? Yeah. Is that the one? I haven't seen it. That's the happening. Is that the happening? No, that was the other one. Which one was the happening? The one where they all kill themselves. They're trying to kill themselves. And they walk backwards. And they walk backwards. Don't know if they start walking backwards. Is that the happening? That's the happening. When they all start killing themselves. Right? Is that him? Are you sure about that? Am I making shit up? Am I drunk? Whatever the fuck that thing was. I don't know. I'm making movies off my head. Is that happening? Yeah. I knew it. You know what happens also? It's weird. After the movie comes out, you get the opportunity to do whatever you want next. What do you want to do next? Like we'll do it. That's the kind of position we're in now. I could see people rushing into things like half-baked ideas or something too early because you're thinking about money and capitalizing on this moment. And then the second one being not as... You know, because the first one's like that's everything. Everything's writing on this movie. It has to be the best fucking thing ever. Then when you do one, like the second one or the third one where you haven't had that time to develop the script, you know, and you kind of rush into the half-baked idea. Well, there's two of that we've been writing. We've been writing for three years. And I'm so excited to fucking start filming again. That's what we want to do. And then we've been doing the doco as well, which we showed you a little bit of. Yeah. You were telling me about this death wrestling. What is it called? Death match wrestling. Death match wrestling. So we're doing that with A24 at the moment. This is in Japan that they do this? Where is this? And in America as well. It's worldwide. It's like a very niche. It's pretty, I guess controversial in a way. A lot of people don't like it. Well, they were throwing people in the barbed wire. Show the video. Yeah. You have the video? I can't show that one because it's the... Part of the documentary. Think documentary. But if you write Sick, Nick, what about... Write CZW, ultra-violence at its best. That'll be... That's a good compilation there. These guys are covered with scars, like legitimate scars. Yeah. It's the most extreme form of wrestling and it's the most dangerous. And it's the least paid and the least viewed because it's so graphic. It has a very niche audience and they brutalize themselves. Yeah, legitimately. Yeah. So when you look at wrestling, wrestling's already a risky sport. These guys are doing week in, week out for 100 bucks, getting fucking annihilated. And it's a fascinating world. So fascinating. I'm so drawn to it and I love it so much. Even as a kid, I was always drawn to that really extreme side of wrestling. There was Cactus Jack, Mick Foley, who Undertaker threw off the top of the cell. And he used to wrestle in Japan in Deathmatch in a company called IWA. That was my first time seeing a Deathmatch tournament where he was wrestling Terry Funk's exploding ropes. Exploding barbed wire, exploding ropes. They're bleeding everywhere. And it's such commitment. It's such extreme performance art. I'm so drawn to it. Imagine you're watching John Wick and Keanu Reeves is going to get kicked downstairs, but you're there in person and he's doing the stunt live and you don't know if he's going to be okay or not. Like that kind of energy in the room. And then also people are, you have this kind of like, it's kind of like when you watch the UFC, like these two guys are the best of like, clash and you don't know what's going to happen. That kind of that intensity, right? That vibe in UFC fights. It's like that, but they're like taking these crazy risks where they could get paralyzed. They could cut like, you know, arteries. One guy, Nick Cage, died and got brought back to life in a helicopter. Like they had, he cut an artery from a light bulb. And we, we, we did some events as well. Like on the YouTube, I did a, cause we used to do a little kids, but death batch wrestling as like teenagers. And we did a video for our YouTube and then I'm like, I'll ask these kids and then fans are like, Oh, do that again. We want to see you guys do that now. So we organized some free events where we've got everyone to come for free to watch us wrestle and they thought it was like a gimmick thing. And then we went fucking hard. And once this, this light bulb smashed off, I got slammed into, it was 70 light tubes taped together and I got smashed into it. One of them broke off wrong and went up into my ribs and I was like, Oh, I was like, I hadn't felt anything before that cause of the adrenaline, the barbed wire. I didn't feel thumb tacks. I didn't feel, I really felt that. So I was like, I've got something here, uh, but let's continue the match. And then I was like getting bloodier and then I would lay it on a table and a guy went on the balcony jumped onto the table. Is this from one of them? Oh, potentially this looks like, I don't know if that's, but yeah, that's if you write CZW, I tried finding that actually. I'll play this. Yeah. Play that. Oh Jesus. He missed. He missed. Yeah. That was like a, that's like a wrestling. I'll show Jamie this one. I miss, I missed one. Oh God, that guy gotta get fucked up from that. Well there's, there's a thing about it. There's like a, there's a camaraderie about it as well because your life's in their hands, their lives in your hands. It has to be this ultimate trust. If you aren't committed together to like pull these moves off, then you're going to hurt each other bad. Well, this is not that bad. That's just a guy missing. Yeah. Yeah. So and skip to a bit further in probably like 30 seconds in. This is what I always watch, uh, to get pumped up for different matches. It's all light bulbs and barbed wire. A little further in. Yeah. Yeah. There we are. Oh God. It's so rogue. Yeah. So dangerous. It's so exciting. I looked down upon because they're like, there's no technique. It's just guys smashing each other. Like that's why people don't like it. But to me it's technique. There is like there is. Yeah. And especially now, like it's not just cause they're like, if you good Lord. Yeah. It's intense, but you can't turn away. Can you do bad? Do these guys get fucked up doing these things? It depends on it. Can you be bad? Sometimes they're okay. And sometimes you're not. Oh God. Yeah. It's pretty insane. Look at the audience. What's your first thought, Joe, when you see that totally unnecessary, but you can't turn away. I can. Do you feel like, like if you're watching two wrestling matches, one standard and one's that you'd be on that one. I feel probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're probably going to want to see how bad someone gets hurt. Yeah. I'll see them. Car accident vibes. Can't look away. It's so nice. The thing is, they're defying death, but they also, there's like a respect from the fans as well. Like you're putting your body on the line like that extreme for our entertainment. When it was like, it's like 300 people in the venue and these guys are like risking everything to entertain. That's something that's like, there's a respect that comes with that. That's in that those environments. It's unlike anything you've ever experienced. I think it's like, go Ronald WWE beat down. This is fucking crazy. Which one's this one? It's a fucking weed whacker. No way. Oh Jesus Christ. Okay. I get it. Okay. Go Ronald WWE. Let me just show you this thing that happened to me when we were doing my hours. I was dressed as Ronald McDonald. It's one of our characters on YouTube. And when I got the thing up my ribs and then I got put on this table and the guy jumped and I felt all the pressure like flesh. You're doing a really bad job. So I don't know. That's a different one. Not this video. No, no. I write Ronald WWE beat down. Yeah. Ronald WWE. Right into the search. Yeah. That first one. That first one. And just go like halfway through. Yeah. A bit further. Oh, that's it. That's the making us look stupid and crazy. This is a bit. This one's like when we have the stunt guys, I purposely tell them not to come to this stuff because this isn't like normal stunt performing and just get hit over the head by a neon light bulb. Yeah. So that's okay. That's the one that foot. Yeah. This is one that went up into my room. Oh God, dude. And keep going for another minute and you'll see like when they put me on the table. I get back to one more year. That's the jump there. I just felt all the fucking blood. I just blurted out the side of my back. So he jumped off of there onto you. Yeah. Oh my God, do you get paralyzed from something like that? I don't know what it is that draws us to it, but we're sort of doing the documentary to explore the psychology behind the need to do it or why they do it and talking to the rest of it and finding out, you know, what's going on with them and why they're drawn to it and why we were drawn to it. So interesting to me because I know it's disgusting. I know it's weird and I'm, I want to figure out why the psychology behind it. Yeah. Why people would do it. Why do you think people would do it? Joe? Because they're dumb. Or? Dumb. Or? Dumb. You know what I'm going to figure out? I don't think it's all just dumb. There's no, yeah. What else is it? It's a way to feel present. I feel. Do you think there's a smarter way to do that? There probably is, but there's, but you, if once you experience something like that, going back to normal life, you couldn't really, you could, you could, the closer you get to death, the more alive you feel, Joe. Oh boy. We're going to do it right now. Deathmatch. But, well, it's the same thing. I guess it's like a, I guess it's different with martial arts, but when people look at it, like base value, like, oh, they're just cock fighting or they're just, people are just going to, but it's like so much deeper than that. Martial arts and things like that. Sure. I would see it as, people would see like, say UFC, like they see a street fight. It's like, it's not that. I remember, I remember I could watch Deathmatch Wrestling as a kid and always loved it. And then I would shake when watching UFC. I would physically shake. I couldn't believe that they're actually trying to hurt each other. I was like a young kid. It really, UFC used to freak me out. I remember when I played UFC one, the game on Xbox, I was fucking shaking. Right. When they were hitting a thing. Yeah. Some of you are fighting and that really one-on-one violence. I found that so much more. You're a giant pussy. Yeah. So no, maybe that's where we get into it. So you like this performative violence. Yes. Performative violence. Yeah. There was something about knowing them. Cause it is actual violence. It's something about being and bleeding, but there's something about it being agreed upon. Yeah. And that it's, it's yeah, it's performative. It's kind of like, yeah, like UFC is like, you're the best in the world. And like, let's see, is better. You're not trying to get hurt. Whereas this is like, how do we. It's safely doing it. No, the wrestling is like, how do we create this spectacle as safely as possible in that environment and be okay, I guess. And tell a story. A bad way of verbalizing it, the documentary will do it better. Yeah. That's the thing is we're trying to find out these questions. Like what draws people to it. What is the other film that you're writing? There's a whole bunch of stuff. We're writing some three films right now and it's just in constant circulation. When have we hit like a roadblock or one? It'll sort of jump onto the next one. So we're developing the talk to a sequel and we've got another project of a 24. We're talking about street fighter right now as well with, um, cap con and legendary. And then, yeah, so it's just sort of developing a bunch of stuff and working on a bunch of stuff. It's finding time like delegating times that the thing now, although, cause I guess with the ADHD, it's like, you know, you're like, and then you start going to rabbit holes of each script. And then, and then I can't help but explore some avenues. There was a script that was sort of due two months ago and I was like, it's going to be done. And then I was like, Oh, what if we change this ending a little bit by changing the ending? We changed the midpoint by changing the midpoint. We've changed the start and you're basically rewriting the entire thing, but I need to follow that thread through and see if that's a more exciting way to tell the story. And yeah, so we're a little behind on things, but we're getting there. Yeah, we're trying to figure out we want to shoot early next year and I need to figure out sleep as well. A big sleep issue as well. Like I've had it my whole life, like not being able to fall asleep. And then when I fall asleep, I wake up every 90 minutes or something like that. What's your diagnosis? It's different people that say different things. I did sleep studies like overnight, then a full 24 hour day one. They said idiopathic hyposomnia. Someone said narcolepsy, but it's more it's fully like my mind, like I guess I've tried like meditating and looking at bloods and like exercise, like falling asleep, like, you know, meditating before sleep, trying everything to try and what is it. But I can't fall asleep. And then when I do finally fall asleep, even if I'm exhausted, I set up like two, three days straight. I still wake up after 90 minutes. So is it just your mind is racing all the time and your mind wakes you up? Maybe. It seems you guys are very hyper. You got a lot going on in your heads. Yeah. And I guess that's a thing like that. Well, yeah, my sleeping pattern is just because you're the same is, but you don't have like I have. Yeah, but I see it's just weird. Like I'll run off naps or like I'll sleep for two hours and I'm like, I'm up now for four hours. I'm like, oh, I'm tired. I have one hour. Then I'm like, oh, I'm up for 12 hours. All right. I'll sleep for three hours. It's just sort of there's no set time to go to sleep and wake up. It's sort of just maybe it's a genetic thing with you guys. Yeah. I think parents are like that. Yeah. It's a, it's a, you're twins. Yeah. And maybe it is just genetic with you. Like you, whatever that gene is, you both got it. But how come he's dumber than me? Come on now. Yeah. I don't know. Matt, come on, man. You fucking burst me in full of joy. Hey, man, what are you doing? Yeah. I don't know what it is. But yeah, but it's the energy that you guys have that leads you to be so productive too. I'd imagine. Yeah. Sort of manic energy. Yeah. That's like, it's literally man. If I could just switch it off at the end of the day, would be awesome. Right. But then you wouldn't have it on all the time. But I think exactly. There's a gift you get. Yeah. Have you heard of Xyrem? Xyrem. What is that? That's a medication for narcolepsy that knocks you out. It's the only medication that apparently puts you through the stages of sleep. Right. But it's a medication. So it knocks you out. But it has all these side effects. It's GHB. It's like people use it for like party drugs. It's a party drug. So what is the side effects? Well, the first page says suicide attempts. And then also the sleep doctor I was speaking to is like, there's two. It's like people are debating. They actually don't know whether it's people that are in bad places don't have the energy to take their own lives, but being on Xyrem gives you the energy to do it. Or is the Xyrem changing your mind to think more like that, more radical or something like that? Are you taking Xyrem? I'm scared to take it. I don't want to be like addicted to a drug, like a, you know, I don't want to be relying on that. Just deal with whatever sleep you get. Yeah. Yeah. It's obviously working. As I'm getting older though now, I feel like it weighs on you a lot more. Yeah. I feel like if I'm engaged, I can go for days, but if I'm not, I'll get tired, but I can't sleep and I'll be like, Do you ever do hard exercise before you go to bed? Does that help? Uh, I've never tried going all right before help, but I've done days where I like fucking smack it, smash go to the gym and, and do boxing, go sparring. I do full day of exercise, like exhaust myself, but then, and I will help me sometimes initially fall asleep, but then 90 minutes. Still same thing. Up. Yeah. How many hours are you getting a night? Seven, eight hours. Oh, you are. And you go all the way through. Yeah. How the fuck is that even possible? What? Sometimes I drink too much water before I go to bed. I have to pee in the middle of the night, but then I go right back to sleep. I don't have a problem sleeping. But like staying awake, are you always taking energy drinks every day? I mean, I might drink one or two. Yeah. Yeah. I drink coffee a lot. It's like even tea will fuck me up. If I have an English breakfast tea, that'll keep me up all night. I'm so sensitive, extremely sensitive to caffeine. Yeah. But you lied to me. It doesn't really. Yeah. Yeah. We are different. Yeah. I don't know. Have you ever tried what happens when you don't drink energy drinks? Yeah. Does that help? You know, uh, no. No. Energy drinks helps me when I get like a low in the day or whatever, if I'm bored. But, uh, when I go, I did a full health streak, you know, like, uh, when I had like a diet that I was sticking to and like a time getting up at the same time every, you know, morning, going to get the sun in the morning, uh, and then doing all that, whatever, you know, like I did that and then it's still. Still. It, the, the frustrating, the frustrating thing is when you do go to, but it's the waking up and you're like, fuck, like a man. I was like, I've got to sleep and then you just wake up 90 minutes. And it's like, I used to think it was a good thing when I was a kid. Cause I'd be like, Oh, I still have six hours before I have to get up for school. And I go to bed and I wake up again. I go, Oh, I've still got three hours. Like it was like, I felt like I was getting more sleep because you know, when you wake up and you're like, Oh, I've got to get up now. It was like waking up and be like, Oh, I don't have to get up yet. Right. But it's like, but weird psychological, you're rambling right now. Yeah. I'm rambling. Fuck you. Yeah. But yeah, I think that let me just complete site note. There's a UFC fighter. You're going to see come to the UFC heavyweight. Brando the Balkan bear. He right now he's training with Izzy trains with Izzy. This guy is going to be a problem in the heavyweight division. He was signed for the UFC. Not yet, but he'll be there inside a couple of years. Yeah. I promise you heard it here first. Is he a friend? Yeah. He's a friend. Six foot six fucking machine and he doesn't fight like a heavyweight. He's far sick. Is there video on me? You're probably fine. He does a lot of kickboxing. Doesn't he try. He grew. She's training MMA now to get ready for the UFC. This is the dude. Hey, the bulk of the baby. Let's go. Let's see if there's any highlights of them. I remember we watched him do a tournament where he did three matches in one night. Yeah. He fought three times in one night. Uh, like one of those tournament things and he won like 20 grand. Well, that's actually YouTube video called. Surely the sum. Oh, no, he's on a count. I think he was. Dude, I got massive. Oh, he got dropped. No, no, no, he didn't. No, no, he's on drop. That dude, he's fighting this gigantic too. Holy crap. And Brad was massive. That guy's fucking huge and wow. Yeah, that guy's a lot better than him. That's crazy. But that heavyweight isn't there no weight in there towards the end. It depends on the organization. The UFC doesn't have a weight limit at super heavyweight, but they do it heavyweight, but they've never had a super heavyweight fight. Oh, wow. Right. Yeah. The UFC heavyweight weight limit is 265. Oh, I didn't know that was okay. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, he's been training over there with them in New Zealand. Uh, yeah. We're going to skills. You see him, you'll see him. Are you embarrassing Brenda right now? Yeah, I hope not. I love you. Got a highlight room. He wins this fight. I think he definitely did. Yeah. At the end, it looked like it. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was getting tired. Big fat dudes probably shock still guys around. Oh, so it's a decision. Yeah, man. I get so pumped when you're watching friends fight that and it's like, you know what I mean? There's nothing like it. I saw a thing with Izzy was when Volk defended his title fight before the last one and he's in a crowd. I go on crazy and the comments are like giving him shit. I was like, dude, when you're watching, we're like, when we watch friends fight, you're like fucking, you know, come on, fucking. Yeah, I give it. That's getting that energy with them as well. And like, it's like a fucking, oh man, when your friends fighting, so fuck craziest feeling in the world, she wants to win so bad in that environment. You know, how are you connected to the martial arts world? Are you, you were saying that you train. Yeah. Uh, physical stuff has always been like, you know, ever since little kid, like I love doing physical, like the stunts and whatever as kids, then I would, I did a bit of more Thai just training. And then we were part of the reason why Logan Paul fought KSI because we were friends with both of them. We're good friends with both of them. Logan, uh, wasn't going to fight KSI. And then Danny went over and convinced him to, he's like, dude, you have to, it's going to be, it'd be the biggest thing cause KSI called him out. Logan didn't want to do it. It's like different audiences. There's no fucking reason to do that. Uh, and Danny, when they're like kept hassling him and he's like, all right. And then he agreed to fight him. So I fought on the undercard of that. Event. And I did, I'm undefeated guys. Want to know. We even sponsor a fighter named, uh, Tim Rogers, who's champion right now in South Australia, which I think he could maybe crack into the UFC as well. Yeah. So I just, I think that we like a thing that we love as well. Like I live, I listen to Ariel Hawani every, every day, the, the fight news, everything I like, I love it. I like obsessed with it. Um, and then so the fight, I remember my auntie saying, you're too little to fight. And I was like, this weight classes in, in the fight thing, I remember she's like, no, when I was saying I was going to fight on the undercard. So I was told that, uh, the people were like, I want the tallest person to show my auntie that I could fight. So, so my opponent was six foot three. And then the fight night, uh, God bless you, scarce. He wasn't very good, but the training camp where I had to fucking get my fucking head kicked in by six foot three guys every fucking twice a week. That was like a hell like it. I went to, uh, I did, yeah, five months training at TJ Smith. Oh no, don't watch it. No, I'm bad. See. No, you're not impressed. I know. I know. Watch the beginning. Yeah. So leading up leading up to that was like just getting smashed by six foot three guys. And I remember once the first guy, the first six foot dude that I sparred was a hundred kilos and I met my trainer Chris being like, all right, you're going to do five three minute rounds. All right. And then behind him, I just saw this guy just hitting the heavy back. And then Chris is like, you just gotta make sure you see that. And then like the guy walked off and I just see this fucking dent in the middle of the, in a heavy bag. And then I went there and he just fucked me up like three standing eight counts. Then the second time we spot up, I spotted three times. So the second time was one standing eight count. Why are you fighting 220 pound guys? I don't know. That's, I guess that was all the bodies that we could find. It was like different. How much do you weigh? 75 kilos. What is that? 170. 2.2 times 75 about 160. And he, I think he was 10 kilos heavier than me on the fight night. That guy, it was just like, but I was fighting with different kind of six big sizes. One of the couple of them was the hundred kilo plus dudes. Wait, I was on the backtrack. Walken bear won that fight, right? Yes. Yes. Okay. Good. It was just, yeah. 152 they had you at. We for the fight. 152 for the fight. And he was 174. Hmm. I don't know that. I don't know. Yeah. I was, I don't know. Look, it's not a good fighter. Yeah, I was not a good fighter, but it's like something that I've. But you just did it for the fun. Yeah. And then like, I wanted that, that feeling of like going out to a fight like I'll how, every time I watched her, I got envious, like people coming out. Like, I want to, I want to know what that feels like to be like, we're going to go and like put it all in the line and like a fight. That's what I wanted to experience that. I love a coward. I look at me. I didn't do any of it. I love, I love that physical rush. I think that's the same thing with the deathmatch wrestling. It's like taking, doing something risky, you know, something that could go wrong or could go very right is very engaging. Um, and I feel bad like when we're doing the, the movie and stuff, which is a lot of fun, but I'm like, I want to jump off something now. I want to get, I need to do something physical and I need, I don't know, something that's in me or like addicted to it. I love it. Uh, that stuff, by the way, the fighting stuff, my ego, I couldn't take it if I lost, so I first, I'm like, maybe. I just kept, yeah. And Danny said, he's like, when you get knocked out, I'm going to replay every frame over and over again. He was like tormenting me. That as a joke, like you're mucking around with him, but seriously, I used to think I was like, uh, I was trained in Cyprus for a month before the fight. And then I was like, I didn't realize about how the climate change, like your cardio just goes like I was skipped for one round. I was like, and I just couldn't, I was like, man, am I just shitter now? Suddenly I'm overseas. And I was in these fucking, we were in these like underground, like concrete, uh, concrete gyms with no ventilation. And then we, I'd get my ass kicked and they go, all right, go out and get some air, man, and I'll go out and it's fucking worse outside than it is in the gym. You know, I couldn't breathe. Couldn't breathe air. I say, Mark was a bad fighter. Mark would choke me out once he broke down my door. Oh, this guy, but is that, that's such an achievement. Like, anyone could choke you out. What are you talking about? I'm just saying that. Yeah. You're a good fighter, Michael. You should have another fight. I, if they do want you to get fucked up. Yeah. You should do it. If misfits does an event, the use you want, if they do want an Australia, I'll do it again. I want to do one more. I would do hate the influencer boxing stuff. No. Oh, no. Okay. Why don't you have, why haven't you had Logan Paul on your podcast? Oh, he's a, yeah. That was a shot. He's looking at you like, stop fucking asking questions. There was, there was a moment in that fight that I got a little bit like emotional. Sorry, this is, I'm so I'm jumping around that UFC Volkonoski speech after the fight where he was saying that he felt that down when he wasn't training or he didn't have that purpose. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, that made him rush into that fight. I said, Oh yeah. Getting really emotional. Seeing someone open up like that and be vulnerable like that. That's a, that was a weird one. When, whenever someone takes a late minute fight like that last minute, 10 day fight, it's just, I know that people want to do it, but it's not the right thing to do at a championship level. You know, especially if you look at like what happened in Volkonoski, he got KO'd in the first round and the first fight was so competitive and you got to wonder like, would he have gotten KO'd if he had a full camp? Like would, would the result have been different? Would he have prepared differently? More faith in his cardio. Same thing with, uh, Kamaro Usman and Hamza Chemayev. Same thing. Like he didn't trust his cardio. It's just. He was dealing damage there, right? Right. I'm still there. He was like, he was kind of getting a flow on it. Yeah. I feel bad for Volkonoski because he did block the kick, but it was like a little too low. Well, he was getting kicked in the body a bunch of times. And I think he thought it was coming to the body and he kind of went like this and he got kicked in the head. Yeah. Well, I saw, I felt like it was like, it just went above his guard. And that was perfect. I mean, it was a perfect setup. We threw a bunch of left kicks to the body and then threw that one to the head. It was perfect. Yeah. Uh, let's hope he can bounce back after that. Sure. Yeah. He can bounce back. I liked that he was open about that stuff and vulnerable about that stuff because it speaks to so many, so many people. Oh yeah. Hearing that from him is so meaningful and impactful. Yeah. It's really. Yeah. Shows his character too, the way he accepted the loss. Yeah. It's such a, yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to see him get back in, but sometimes you get knocked out like that. You really should take a bunch of time off. Yeah. Because he got really cracked. I mean, if you watch the head kick, it was like head kick right to the temple right to the side of the head. It's like, it's a bad place to get hit. You get hit really hard. Fuck. Oh, I want to wait a little time after that. Yeah. There's a thing also when we're talking about mental perception about if that happens, are you going in kind of like with that in the back of your mind now? You're fighting us for it. Sure. Yeah. I mean, that was the first time it happened doing the UFC. He only got, had stopped, been stopped once in his career ever. And that was at welterweight. So he was fighting someone who was 170 pounds. And that was quite a long time ago, early, early in his career. And he's been completely undefeated in the UFC. And then there was the Makachev fight. So he loses that decision, very close decision. He looks like a world beater. And then he takes his fight with very short notice and not really prepared and gets knocked out. So it's one of those things. It's like, there's a very high risk and the reward obviously is very high as well. If he beats Makachev, he becomes two division champion, but you really can't fight a guy like that without really going through a camp. Yeah. You can, you might get lucky. It might, might work out your way, but it might not. Is it? It's got to be surely if you guys on another run, you get him a crack at. Boxers would never do that. That's what's interesting. Like if Terrence Crawford was supposed to fight Errol Spence and Errol Spence got injured 10 days out, they would just cancel the fight. Yeah. They would never have a completely different opponent step in with no camp on 10 days. Don't us. It's very unique to the UFC. And I don't know if I'm a fan of it. Oh, really? Don't like the last minute. Well, I don't know. I mean, I love the fact that people take a chance, but I don't like it in terms of someone. I want someone to be fully prepared. That's what I really like. I like when someone goes through a full camp, fully prepared, absolutely ready for this one opponent, because you're dealing with this insanely high risk sport. That's very difficult to do. And I just don't feel like with proper, you can, you know, he's probably at 65% of what his potential is. Yeah. Yeah. And he feels like, because he's such a champion, he feels like that's enough. But I guess it's in service of the people that have bought the tickets that have done it. They're trying to not let down the fan base. But this guy's got a lineage. She's got a legacy to worry about. I mean, his full career and one loss like that can define you forever because it can change the course of your career, especially if it's a really bad knockout. Like if you get completely knocked unconscious, go to the hospital, neck brace, the whole thing, wheel down on a stretcher, that can define your entire career. It can change the course of your career. Yeah. And that, sorry, just I gotta say, this is so surreal that we're talking fighting on jury. But like, that, yeah, I guess everyone's wants that kind of Michael Bisping, Luke Rockhold to moment. Yeah. Yeah. In that situation, it worked out great. Yeah, it's rolling the dice. It's like, yeah, he rolled the dice. But Michael Bisping is a crazy dude. And that's a guy who fought 10 people with one eye. Well, I like that reveal thing where he's pulled out. That's crazy. Just wild. Yeah. How I'm courted, our dad is one eye and he's like a bit off. Your depth perception, depth perception gets very skewed. Yeah. You don't exactly know where things are. Yeah. Can you do things like VR and stuff with one eye? I'm sure you probably could. Because like about like, you know, like 3D glasses and people would, you wouldn't get that. I think VR is different. It's like, you know, from the 3D glasses. Yeah. It's that thing. We were just talking about it before. How crazy is AI going to take over? It is, I guess, everything. And you can't. Not fighting. Yeah, it depends on how convenient it is to use. Like if it gets to glasses, just regular glasses. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be, I mean, it's going to get better and better and smaller and smaller and with battery technology and all sorts of other things that are going to be, you know, all new innovations. Who knows? But I don't know. Speaking of filming, some people, like they're shooting like a Mandalorian on just like screens, right? You don't even need to go to locations. You get to, they could just be at any place they want on the screens and it will have real, the light will be identical to what it would be out there. And then you don't have to worry about, you know, taking unit out on helicopters to these places, you know, like, you know, lost the TV show. They'd fucking flat to fly the whole crew over there like and shoot like with the nature and the sound and all that stuff. There's still certain things you can't capture. Like, come on, on location is so much cooler. Yeah, but I guess it kind of feels like, yeah, that's the same as all like, I like practical, but it kind of feels like I'm down for those screens of sci-fi movies as opposed to trying to just say, oh, we'll do that on an island instead of going to an island. Just go to the island if you can afford it. Why? But I'm just trying to think like, because I like practical as well. If, but if, you know, the CGI stuff gets to a point where you literally can't tell the difference between the model car and, you know, a real car, then it's like it's kind of like it reminds me of when I was doing Disney video movies back in the day where they would draw every single frame. And then when that CGI came in, like Toy Story, I think Toy Story was the first film to do it with like, we don't need to do that anymore. We can do it through the first 3D film. Yeah, we do it through a computer and then like the, you know, traditionalists are like, no, what the fuck? You're like moving it. Like, this is a work of art to do each frame. But it's kind of like it kind of feels like that now. It's like, you got it. You got it. You got it. Embrace it. I feel like it's different because AI is, if you look at the artist AI, it's taking, oh, yeah, I don't know, actually, it's a fucking, it's a tricky conversation. That was part of the writer's strike was trying to figure out artificial intelligence and if it can be, AI writing, yeah, AI writing and incorporating into film writing and screen writing. That's crazy. That's, that's even a, it's horrifying. But yeah, it's unavoidable at this point. Yeah. I feel like stories coming from the heart, it's going to always be better than something that's, I think it'd be very difficult to write a movie like Talk to Me and do that. Through AI, very difficult. Yeah. There's something about human creativity, at least at this point. Yeah. Very unique. Yeah. Because it's drawing from personal experiences, not drawing from everyone's experience. It's like, it's a personal subject. It's impossible to replicate it because it hasn't happened to someone else. It's their, your own personal experience. Yeah. It could do things based on things that happened in the past, but this isn't like that person's experience, I guess. No, it's not an expression of any single person. So it can't be unique art. Well, listen, guys, whatever you're doing, you're doing awesome shit. I mean, that movie was amazing and whatever you're doing next, I'm going to be watching because I think you guys are very uniquely talented and you're full of energy. And it was a lot of fun. Thank you so much for having us. It's very, it was an honor. Thank you so much. My pleasure. The honor was mine. Tell everybody how they can access your social media, where you guys are at, how they could find you. Oh, just watch Talk to Me. Stream Talk to Me. Go stream it. It's awesome. For Halloween. Yes. Yeah, it's a good Halloween movie for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Halloween. Stream Talk to Me. Thank you.