#2043 - Francis Foster & Konstantine Kisin

You have headphones on in a video game like you can hear things behind you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah hear things in front of you Yeah, you get a sense of where they are. That's one of the goddamn those things are addictive. Yeah, man I'm a gamer so addictive. Yeah, but that's that's why cuz It's so immersive now, you know, are you into video games? Oh my god. I have a real problem. I can't play them I literally can't blame I can play pool right cuz pool I'm addicted to that But pool to me is like a mind exercise it's like a concentration exercise as much as it is a game like it's all about like Everything has to move together and perfect sense synchronicity and when I'm playing video games I'm just absorbed in this like adrenaline fueled chaos of Graphics and sounds and explosions. It's just way too good You don't want to do anything else you just want to fucking go crazy and play video games There's this game. I play escape from Tarkov that I just I shouldn't be allowed to play it It's not good for my family, man. It's just like 10 hours a day Oh, and before you know it the whole day is gone. You know, I'm loose sleep. Yeah. Yeah Wolfenstein 3d That was the game where it just got felt kind of like the first time I saw Wolfenstein 3d Which probably shows how old I am now. That's the original id software title. Yeah, like the first one that you get at the right time, man Oh So many hours of my childhood was spent on that yeah, so I started off with quake one Quake one on a computer. I was just playing the game itself because they had put I used to Mac and so then they put out Thank you, brother Oh I'm enjoying some company but That was just you just play the game and then I found out about online playing I was like, oh no. Oh No What a life suck that is. Yeah, do you let your kids play? They play games. Yeah, but fortunately one's a monsieur really in a row blocks What's my block road blocks? R? Oh B? Oh L or B? L? O X I think that's what it is, right? It's just like they have these little worlds they create and they run around with their friends in there It's like it seems like fun You just have to limit the amount of time they do and you have to explain to them like don't just let them figure out It's addictive Explain to them that it's yeah, explain to them that there's things that you're gonna want to get really good at that won't help you Yes It's a quiet way of looking at it because like I had a friend and he was one of the guys who was that one of the managers of the comic store super awesome guy and He was hooked on ever quest You know that game know that game never that game Jimmy. There's like massive old online multiplayer game You're a wizard cast and spells and shit that kind of thing. Mm-hmm One day I'll never forget we were all standing around in the Comedy Store bar and he was pale pale like paper He hadn't been out of house days like he just his eyes were something to his head. He goes I Am so good at making money in the game and so bad at doing it in real life. Mmm Wow I was like, okay You've put all your energy into getting really good at something that doesn't do you any good Unless you're gonna be a professional which they do have that's a hard thing to say to a kid Don't be don't play video games. If then you find out how much video game players are making right? It's like don't start a podcast They're so good I'm not talking shit about games But when you gotta control is what you're saying, they're too good. They're too good. They're your life is boring as fuck Compared to those games like there's no way there's no way it's as exciting as playing like quake 3 arena online With it like a 30 inch monitor and you're sitting right in front of it and you're got fucking headphones on explosions and lightning guns Because if you think about it right like computer games are instant gratification Well, and that's how you get success in a computer game But if you think about life life how to become successful is basically deferred gratification Yeah, and there's another level to which is in a computer game rewards a linear You work for a bit you get a reward you work for a bit you get a reward you work for a bit you But life isn't like that in life you work for a bit you get fucking kick kick to shit for years sometimes right you got to work and work and work and sometimes it's gonna be really shitty for a long time and Then there may be a reward or they may not sometimes the work is the reward itself, right? So that is in some ways it actually changes how you think about achieving things and doing things as well Which is you know, I have sometimes found that helpful Because you kind of know if you work you get a reward but sometimes it can mess with your reward system as well I think you know if you look at what video games do it encourages you to spend as much time doing them as possible Yeah, the more you do them the more whatever you're doing you acquire, you know if that that's kind of the case with real life Well, think about like stockbrokers. Hmm think about those kind of folks folks are you know, you know Just in to try and make money just trying to figure out what to buy and what to sell and it's all for them It's all numbers. Hmm. So they must be like addicted to these numbers Like you probably they're probably super addicted to like seeing their bank account and seeing their hedge fund seeing what it what do they have? Like how much how much I need more than that, you know Like you compare yourself and you read the list of the richest people in the world. Oh, this guy's got 200 billion Holy shit, I gotta do better You know what I thought how do you keep going once you got to like a billion? How do you motivate yourself to like make more? Yeah, you've got more money than your last what you're doing is what you enjoy doing. Yeah, which is where Elon falls into that Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. He's making money. But what he does is he's I mean, it's essentially it's all engineering stuff All of it, you know, it's innovation and engineering, you know the boring company. They're trying to like drill tunnels under the cities That's crazy right the SpaceX that's fucking insane. You're shooting rockets into space. You want to put people on Mars? Electric cars your engineering electric cars electric roofs like everything is like this new innovative product Starlink Oh, let's just get high-speed internet and fucking fly through the sky But if you keep seeing those things and thinking they're UFO Yeah, yeah, but it's also as well. Like if you think about like making money, what is really making money? It's the deal and actually you just get addicted to the deal, you know, it's like a form of gambling I'm gonna try this tactic, but no they push back on here But I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that and then and then maybe if we try that then this is gonna happen And then you make the deal and boom you get the dopamine. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense I know some hedge fund guys who love doing it after the first billion too Well, if they really enjoy that game, I guess yeah, I mean I guess it's kind of like playing, you know magic the gathering or something I mean it is a game. You're you're you're playing it to win it. Yeah, but social media is a game Yes, it's a game a lot like video games. Yeah, where it's like you're really not getting anything out of this I suppose for people like us we're building profile and you know, you know connections I'm not so many amazing people actually through social media for sure. We're all on it. Yeah, right. Yeah, we're all on it But also we're all yeah. Yeah, and some of the people that are on it aren't even really there Like what you there's so much interaction that's instigated. There's so much there's so many inflammatory accounts That I read them and I'm like there is no way that's a real person not like this is all designed This is all like there's just a certain percentage of people that are just trying to stir up shit in Conversations all the time and they usually have like American flags and their profile It's like You know like some some Trump thing in their name and then you go to their account It doesn't look real at all and you're like, I wonder where this is this guy in Moldova like where? Like where is he? Yes, is he in Latvia? Like where's this guy? It's doing this yet. There's so many people like that There's one guy I'm not gonna mention his name But he lives in Asia and he's always commenting about America and I'm like mate Should you not be commenting about your own country instead of clipping riots in America? Well, he's get killed Displaced protests good fucking luck tweeting bad shit about China if you're in China, yeah, they got that pretty locked down Oh, yeah, they do. Yeah, oh, they do. Yeah, and there's several countries that have arrested people for tweets Well, we come from one of them. Yeah. Yeah Guys do yeah 2018 3,000 people man 3,000 people got arrested for tweeting bad things not tweeting the social media post. Yeah. Yeah So between what was the biggest one was a happy Facebook, right? That's where people complain the most is it probably I think those are the complainiest folks. Those are the older folks Yeah, I mean the most famous example is Count Dan killer the internet comedian where you taught his puck to do a Nazi salute But there's been lots of others you examples, you know people There's a tragic fire that happened in London called the Grenfell fire It was awful people were literally burnt to death in this tower block and these group of people they were idiots basically did a representation on bonfire night in November the 5th in our country and They did a representation of people in the tower and set fire to it. They videoed it. They were laughing along now Obviously, that's a dick move. I think we can all agree with that But you don't arrest somebody for that for basically being a dick. Yeah, it shouldn't be illegal to be stupid No, it just that's a you're crossing a line because you're making a subjective judgment, you know, like it's not funny to me and It's it's not funny to probably to a lot of rational people. Yeah, but you should be able to try Like the whole thing about doing something like a lot of times when people do outrageous things. They think they're gonna be funny They don't know. Yeah, and then they try it That's not a thing. You should arrest people for because you're setting a crazy precedent because then it becomes Subjective like what's outrageous and what's not it could move to anything it could move to you know, trans Identification or trans rights it could move to anything vaccine hesitancy. I mean you can keep going Yeah vaccine hesitancy not not supporting Ukraine There's a whole slew of things that could be stuffed into that box once you open it You just can't open that box that box has got to be people have to be able to do this This is how we have to conduct ourselves people have to be able to express themselves And they have to be able to use facts and reality and not get censored and they have to be able to do that Kind of universally and if they can't do that if the good ideas can't compete against the bad ideas and the good ideas aren't good enough So we have to figure it out a strength and the good ideas But the only way that works is if you don't censor people because as soon as you start censoring people You're admitting that you don't want to engage in this you don't want you don't want to you don't want to show a better way Of looking at things you just want to be the only person who gets to talk and that's what we saw on social media Over the last few years and which is why Elon buying Twitter was such a big fucking deal It's a big fucking deal And I know advertisers are panicking and people are saying that hate talk is up and I must admit I have seen a lot of wild shit on X now that I don't think I would have ever seen before like Openly racist stuff some pretty gross stuff. It's just it's also it's just weird how comfortable people are Talking a certain way. Mmm, you know, it's almost like I wonder like how much of the idea of it being Completely uncensored now. It's not totally uncensored. I mean, there's some moderation, right? There's things you can't do you can't dogs people you can't do a lot of things and they can't catch everything either Look how many then they fire like most people I mean nothing much change though. I didn't I didn't feel it terrible I think that in terms of the hate speech stuff or whatever you call that whatever it is That's just a product of the fact that they're not moderating as much and I actually think I mean what you said was You know just preach on that But I also think on top of that we have to those of us who believe in freedom of expression We have to also admit that freedom comes at a cost and it's worth paying. Yeah, that's what we have to be honest about I think we have to say We're getting freedom at the cost of some Discomfort some people are allowed to be dicks. Yeah, and that's the price we're willing to pay I mean freedom always comes at a cost right and it's trade-offs You could make the country really safe if you lock every man between 18 and 40 in a prison But we don't do that because we understand we can't do that right despite what some feminist Statistically though they'd be right That's what I'm saying. Yeah, right. That's who commits the crimes. Yeah. Yeah I used to have this bit about what would it be like if women caused all wars? Just men cost all of them. Yeah men cause every fucking war that's ever happened. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, maybe women were involved Well, yeah, I mean there's Helen of Troy Yeah, yeah, but she wasn't out there fighting. She just wanted to be with her true love, mate It was her fault that can be a factor. Yeah, you know, there's like really strong women and pussy whip kings a lot of that happens But you know the buzz bar You know if you locked all the men up. Yeah, right. There would be no crime Except in jail be a lot of crime. Let's stop giving them ideas well, it's You know, you can't obviously you can't do that, but it's also it's like What do you How do we fix all of the like insane? Tension in the world today. It seems like this is No other time in my life have I felt like there's more Conflict and more like tension in the air like It didn't used to be that people with differing ideas whether they're on the right or the left were so fucking hateful so In like I've seen the kind of rhetoric that you see online Is just so like if we don't win democracy is lost and it's from both sides I think the problem is man is that we spend all our time on these platforms which incentivizes That type of behavior because it's always going to be the most controversial take the most reactionary point of view That's going to gain the most engagement and that's going to work with the algorithm, which is going to drive it So really, you know people respond to incentives and you're incentivizing people to be More reactionary more divisive more aggressive when the reality is as we all know like if you got those two people to sit in front Of one another and have a conversation They wouldn't behave like that because you have the added element of getting a punch in the face Yeah, that's another thing, right? Like most people would never communicate the way they communicate online in real life Yeah, and it's partly what france has said which is the potential for violence, right? Yeah, it's real. Yeah, it's real And it's maybe a guy thing but we instinctively know that right? There's a level bill bow used to have this incredible bit of how he would behave if it was illegal to put or you know If you couldn't hit him, you know, just walk up to a Jim bro snap Milkshake out of his hand. Yeah So the face-to-face thing changes everything because most of the way we communicate is actually not in the words, right? It's just how we're designed, right? Yeah, we're designed to communicate in in person We're designed to take social cues verbal cues physical cues. Yeah, just as if you could sense energy in people Yeah, you could sense the people are upset with you even though their expression doesn't change, you know And interesting it's really interesting and we've also come to this point Jo which is really worrying to me where people think that words of violence That's crazy, man You know And if you think the words of violence and if you literally interpret it as that then you having an argument with someone is you Literally being physically assaulted So if you're going if you feel like you're being physically assaulted Then you're going to up the ante and you're going to become more aggressive as a result you're justified to defend yourself Yeah, yeah If you think that everyone is not a Nazi like a literal Nazi, you know Like you feel justified in your actions and you're a lot of them are convinced that it's like being in a cult But are they convinced though? This is what I wonder joe is like they they keep using that word about everybody, right? Yeah But if you actually thought democracy was over and the nazis have taken over wouldn't you like pick up a gun and rise up and overthrow the but but pretty close to that It seems like if you woke up one day and that broke out in philadelphia you wouldn't be stunned Yeah, you know, you're seeing what the looting and the craziness of philadelphia is right now, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's bonkers, man This defunded police stuff is Psychotic It's crazy to literally encourage crime Because if you don't have incentives if you don't have something in place to keep people from committing crime And people that have already committed crime in their life like multiple times like many times. They're just going to do it whenever they want And that's what you're seeing. Yeah. Yeah. Yes It's amazing how and and it's part of this sort of mindset that every human behavior is a product of the circumstances But it's not some people will commit crime, right? And we have to also have a system that prevents that from happening. We have to have police we have to have everything else, right? um and Decriminalizing crime is a bad idea. It's a stupid idea. It's just this idea that's born out of guilt not logic It's born out of virtue signaling not rational thinking It's just not the way to do it If you have bad cops you're supposed to train them to be better you should fund them better treat them better Respect them more and then they should have more of a relationship with the community It should be a thing where they're trying to literally protect you Not constantly persecute people and fuck with people and it's like that that line is a very thin line then also Who the fuck wants that job? Who the fuck wants to be yelled at all the time? Who wants to be the professional enemy who wants to be someone that it's okay to just shoot at? Who wants to be the person that everybody you interact with is lying to you Was there a time in your life joe where the police were respected by most people? There's always been problems You know There was a problem hunter s thompson wrote about the chicago riots being one of the most horrific things that he ever saw in His life the way cops were beating the people with clubs and shit It's there's always been bad cops just like there's always been bad plumbers. Yeah, there's just bad. Some people just suck They suck at what they do and you know, they come from a bad environment. They don't you know, they didn't have good role models They grew up around assholes. They don't have any motivation. Maybe they're hooked on drugs and they suck at what they do and that could be anything Anybody could suck at anything cops too. There's cops that are awesome human beings. I know a lot of cops They're great people from jujitsu. I've known so many cops because cops are constantly training And generally they're really nice guys with a fucking really hard job, but you don't hear about those You hear about the one that does some horrible thing You see about the one who plants the gun on the guy after he shoots them. You see the one where People shoot people when they're reaching for their wallets You see you see the crazy shit you see people punching women in the face. You see crazy shit, right? But you don't see all the positive interactions and you don't see what happens If you get rid of them and that's what you're seeing with this these smash and grabs These are fucking bananas man Because they're everywhere now and people are seeing so many of them on the internet and they're seeing that people are getting away with them And it's encouraging them. Yeah, and this is what happened, you know, and you know, venezuela was always had a problem with lawlessness but when chavis came to power After a few years, you know They said the cops weren't going to prosecute people criminals because prosecuting crime is a sign of right-wing oppression Like where have you heard that before? Right? And as a result of that it became so completely and utterly lawless The the city became uninhabitable It became the murder capital of the world and the kidnap capital of the world Because there's always going to be a small subset of society Who are criminals and who will then look to? Maximize their opportunities to make money Yeah, there's there's a couple arguments about this that make sense when when people say that they're a victim in their circumstance and we we have to Appreciate that they were put into a horrible circumstance in life and they're just trying to get by that's true, too So what we have to do that we're not doing is try to figure out how to stop that How to stop how to make like a minimum quality of life for everybody? Where you're no one's growing up in dire poverty that if you can send how many I mean How many trillions of dollars? Have we spent just on military budgets over the last few years? If they figured out a way to Give contractors a lot of money to fix neighborhoods like to like completely clean them up provide modern housing Take care of all the work figure out ways to set people up for work programs and give people jobs like If that was like financially viable just like halberd and had those contracts to rebuild up After we blew it up If they had something like that for inner cities where they these guys could literally make money doing it That could be one way to kind of re-engineer things because if they could just figure out how to do that You'd have so much less crime. You'd have a lot less crime. You'd have a lot less crime if people had hope If people had role models if they had community centers if they had really good education and they had safe streets Just that alone just that alone. Yeah, it would it would reduce time a lot Definitely a long fucking time though Yeah, because you got generation after generation of people who lived there when you're talking about like really fucked up gang-ridden neighborhoods No one's done anything about those neighborhoods for a long time. Yeah, yeah, it's generational It's like built into the people that lived there. Yeah, they're accustomed to it And you know his family structure as well once once you disrupt all that there's not enough male role models where people where Young kids going to look for for a role model is going to be the men with status around them Who's that going to be drug dealers? Right? Yeah gang members. Yeah status and money Yeah, that's them and guys who grew up in those kind of neighborhoods all have that story Yeah, you know and that's true too, you know, like yeah, you can't defund the police But you also can't ignore the plight of a good percentage of our community Like we're supposed to be a united community of human beings. We call ourselves Americans. We live on the same patch of land except for alaskan hawaii Alaska's the dumbest like how is that ours? You know, it's not even connected, you know people don't talk about the culture aspect about it a lot I remember when I was teaching at a school. There was a really rough school. I taught a little kid Let's call him darren and it's one of the smartest kids i've ever encountered so bright I remember he was always getting kicked out of school uh Gay, I kicked out of lessons And when I was like one of the jobs that you do as a teacher you walk around the corridor and you pick up the kids You get kicked out of the lesson And I just I then taught darren chess and within about two days. He could beat me at chess He was super super super bright one of the brightest kids i've ever encountered But because he came from a criminal family He was never going to make it through school He just wasn't because the the values that had been inculcated him right away from birth Meant that he was never going to succeed And this is what that I found frustrating that a lot of people didn't get they were like he's a bad kid He's a bit Yep He's a kid who's a product of his culture And it takes a very special person to be able to break out of that and generally they have to find something to break out whether it's Music or sports or something. Yeah that breaks them out of stand-up comedy that breaks them out of that So some new world that they can enter into and succeed in and then they can leave the old world behind And at the same time coming back to the point you made earlier Crime still has to be illegal. We can understand people's circumstances and not encourage and incentivize them to commit crime Yeah, we have to be able to do both We we have to walk and chew gum at the same time man We got to be right have to be yeah We have to be able to do both but the way to fix it is not defunding the police. That's not that that's the worst Strategy, but that's such a virtue signaling strategy. That's like look what they did to george floyd. No, look at what one guy did One guy did and there was a more than appropriate response by the people that saw that video people freaked the fire and the violence and the burning of all that smashing and shit very unfortunate, but that out blast of hate It at least should make people recognize that a you can be held responsible for something horrific like that if someone's filming it And then also that those kind of cops do exist and also that it's on all of them and we got to figure out a way to train cops or screen them better or Like joco says that you should train them the same way. They train seals Like seals develop They go through this training program and then they dedicate a certain amount of time forever for training. They're always training Cops don't do that. They just stay cops. Yeah, yeah, and he's like you should dedicate a certain percentage of their time should be dedicated to training And they should be held accountable but it's also it's like you're asking a lot and then on top of that you're essentially dealing with people that have a high instance of PTSD. Oh, no very very high instance and not discussed and not appreciate it you hear about ptsd from People that are victims of violence and people that are victims of war you you hear about that But you don't hear about about cops. Yeah, and and also the point you made earlier I mean, how much does it how much does it take to train a seal? Yeah It's a lot right. How much does it how much do we spend training police officers? Not not nearly as much and also like hey, you shouldn't be fat Like hey Also, you should be able to physically defend yourself. Yeah, you know, and even if you're a woman you should know jiu-jitsu You should know you should be able to defend yourself Because we've seen time and time again these horrific Situations where cops can't physically defend themselves and some criminal gets loose and beats the fuck out of them Yeah, I mean I've seen so many videos of this one was horrible This lady pulled this guy over and the guy's daughter was in the car. She's like don't daddy don't daddy And he's beating the fuck out of this lady cop, you know I when I left university, I did a like a temp job at the metropolitan police just doing like paperwork And what was really interesting when I was working in those offices is there were a lot of cops there working And they were all just guys who were burnt out ptsd'd out their eyeballs They couldn't function anymore and all they all they did was just routine admin jobs And I used to go with these guys to go and drink and like we did Really good guys really good guys And the stories they told me They were just horrific and the drinking culture and the only way a lot of these guys were functioning is by Working most of them, you know, they had one or two marriages They had failed and then they would just go out and just get smashed because that was their only way of coping because The the support for them was minimal. They didn't have any support if you go to a murder scene and you see, you know A guy who's basically killed himself and then shot his daughter and his wife And you don't have any type of support when you come out to talk to to help you to process that what are you gonna? Thank you. You're not meant to be exposed to that all the time all the time. Well, that's all you do That's all you do Yeah, and we don't even consider that. Yeah, it's just such a stupid underappreciation And it's it's just so unfortunate that that's so prevalent and it it's somehow or another equated to liberalism and I just think it's just the wrong approach. I think it's like fundamentally it's the wrong approach I Empathize and I even agree with how they feel about The way this the setup in this country is not fair. It's not fair There are people that do not get a fair starting block Their starting block sucks like where they take off from in life. It's not the same as yours. It's not the same as mine But we got to fix that The thing is not like fixing it when it gets to all the way to Letting violent criminals out because you think they were wronged in life Like you're just gonna let violent criminals out there You're not changing them because you acknowledge the fact that they've been done wrong And also we have to be real in the society like yours and like ours where we define poverty. I mean look Your the communities you're talking about they're really in deep trouble, of course But we still we define poverty in relative terms and somebody will always be poorer than other people, you know Yes, but even like very poor poverty food stamps welfare. You don't have money for food I know but but those people are much wealthier than many other people I grew up around which is crazy, right? Right. It's like it's 34 percent. There's thirty four thousand dollars a year is one one percent of the world. Yeah Some people call themselves like, you know, all these one percenters. That's you. That's you Right. That's everybody here. Yeah, that's all of us Yeah, you know Especially most people working make more than thirty four thousand dollars a year. So most people in america that have a full-time job They're probably making more than thirty four thousand dollars a year and they're in the top one percent of the world Yeah, you know the thing that I don't think people talk about enough So i've when I was teaching I taught in rural communities and in a lot of rural communities because of globalization because of the industrialization There's just generation after generation who are growing up who are becoming adults and there is no work There is no work for the vast majority of them and what it inculcates in them is a sense of hopelessness And if you grew up in a culture where you feel that there is no hope and you look around you and everyone is broken And no one is working and everyone is given up then even as a kid you think to yourself Well, well, what's the point of doing anything because i'm just going to end up like uncle dave On the sofa getting you know what I mean? Yeah, even if you don't intellectually think it Emotionally you feel it. Well, that's the thing that can happen to kids in high school So if you're in high school and you're hanging around with the crowd who likes to party and drink and fuck off and not do much And you know Those are the fun people to hang out with and then you get out of school And now you're supposed to get a job. You you have to now you're on your own You have to figure it out and these guys aren't figuring it out if you're trapped in that kind of a friend group Like you can get sucked into very low expectations You know and you could you could fucking waste a long chunk of your life before you figure that out Totally man, and you know culture you're right france. This is such a powerful thing I mean I when I was uh, when I was 18, I spent a few weeks sleeping in the park I didn't have money and might you know, I had a long family situation that was very bad But it never occurred to me that I would stay there because that wasn't what I came from and it wasn't the environment I was raised in I always knew that I would get out of it, you know uh and culture, you know, whatever attitude whatever you want to call it will will push you through things that If you don't have it, it's going to be impossible if you don't have expectations that you know You know, you don't know people that have succeeded in life and done well and That's a better word expectations than culture expectations Oh, if you're in a fucking place like south side of chicago have you ever looked at the murder rate? Man, it's hot. It's hot. There's so many crazy videos of shootouts in the street It's like I just watched one the other day guy pulls over jumps out the car shoots these guys Which is happening on the street You're these kids are growing up in a war zone So if you're a kid and you're growing up there and you're 15 years old How many people have you seen killed three four five? How many have you seen killed? Well, if you're are you out at night? Are you at 13 years old? Are you roaming around the street streets at night being wild and are you seeing gang violence? Are you participating in it? like And what do you want as a young man? You want status you want money? Yeah, you want girls who are the people all the people that you see around you who are who are the people that have that? Also, it's probably pretty fucking exciting. Oh, man. Yeah You know shoot some guns yeah a lot better than working at lows. Yeah when I was again, like I was working in east london and one of the This is a thing, you know because I try always to have compassion for people and obviously you're human sometimes you're just like you're off Right, but the thing that I found most heartbreaking man is like there were kids in my class who I taught They had learning difficulties. They were you know, they you know, they're low IQ. They weren't particularly bright They were sweet kids And they were just targeted by gangs because gangs knew that they could groom them that they were 10 11 years old There was no one at home. No one cared for them They could groom them and then they could become drug runners and whatever else, you know, my ex was an educational psychologist She was working with a lot of these kids one and one of her kids like went missing The kid went missing 10 11 years old. This was in north london. She was working the kid was found in scotland And Literally a different country at the other end of the island and you're like, you know, and it was it was gang It was gang, you know because they take them they groom them. They give them money They're the first person who shows them affection the first person to show you know What everybody else has written you off everyone else thinks you're stupid, but you know what? Come and join us. Come and join us. I'll show you respect Yeah, i'm gonna give you responsibility and you know what else you're gonna do you're gonna get money Here's a question We we all have we all have this vision of a utopian society Where there is no longer war there is no longer crime and but it's never existed Well, it never existed even briefly. Isn't it? What is there something? That human beings It's almost like built into The operating system of human beings that you need a certain amount of antagonists a certain amount of protagonists To keep things moving and that the the urgency that everybody feels right now is like social urgency It's almost like we're building up to like an ideological super bowl Like we're gonna figure out which one of these ideas makes the most sense You know, it's like it feels like there's like this tension build up and I almost wonder If that's something that we need In order to figure things out like we need this chaos. We need people trying to control narratives We need people trying to censor people we need people to do it. So we realize how horrific it is So we act out and we talk about it. So it's not like this Slow creeping censorship. We don't notice it. It's like it's shocking There's censoring news stories that could hurt the you know The the party that they want to win in in the elections. It's crazy stuff It's crazy and we had the case with debanking in the uk where this guy najil forage. I don't know if you know him I did hear about that story Yeah He's kind of like the donald trump of the uk in some ways, you know Very unpopular with some things very with some people very popular with others and his bank Which was a kind of like bank for wealthy people. They closed his account without explaining why Um, he started doing some digging. He did a freedom of information request or something. It's not called out, but it's basically the same thing Um, and the the bank came out and said it's because he doesn't have enough money Bullshit turned out it wasn't true Eventually, he got the information saying that the transcripts of their internal conversations were That part of the reason they shut his account down was political, right? And then we had the financial conduct authority, which is the people who are supposed to investigate this stuff They did an investigation and said there was no political debanking going on All the newspapers reported it and in paragraph five of that same article You can see that his case was not taken into account in the report Right, so they they lied about it stage after stage after stage And now you've got mainstream journalists spreading this crap that they know isn't true. They just have a good headline All they have to do is have a good headline The inside of it can be nonsense and they can even show you in front right in front of your face Why what they're saying is incorrect and it doesn't matter and then they all bitch and whine and then they go why is no one watching our content? Well, here's the wildest one that's going on right now You know the mara lago controversy of the the price pricing or the uh, the inflated value of the house Yeah, the mara lago. Yeah, the judge ruled that it was worth 18 million It's 20 acres in like the most expensive real estate in that area like a house down the street from it much smaller Just sold for 50 million dollars. Wow, even if forb said it's worth somewhere between I think see what forb said I think they said it was worth between 300 and 700 million dollars and uh They were saying that it's worth 18 million It's like they don't even try to pretend yeah No one trusts the mainstream if the guy says this how that's worth a billion dollars, right? And then you come along and say no no, it's worth like 800 million forb says it's worth as much as 700 million We'll call it 700 million. Now. You got a reasonable argument Yeah, but if you say 18 million like you got it, you know, let's take a palace The place is a palace. It's 20 acres Get the fuck out of here. This is great. You can't do that That's like too obvious that you're just you don't give a fuck about the truth They don't you don't give a fuck about the truth Oh, he claimed it was worth 1.5 billion in latest plea to drop fraud case, but judge ruled it's wildly inflated Yeah, but the judge does not have An accurate sense of the market in my opinion. It just the property size alone It's such a giant chunk of property I you know that says it's worth somewhere about half a bill, right? Is that what that's no See he said the judge was saying that it's worth between eight says, okay Citing an appraisal report from the city of palm beach that pegged the value of mara loggo between 18 million and 27.6 million between 2011-2021, right? Okay, so it was 18 million announced worth because of inflation 27 325 million that's how much Forbes estimated mara log was worth as of September Although it peg its net value at 292 million after deducting roughly 33 million in debt. Okay, so it's got debt So I think what this what they're saying the scam is is you wildly overinflate a piece of real estate again? I don't know jack shit about real estate All right, just to just but I think what you do is you say I got a house with a billion dollars. I need a loan Based on this billion dollar property right now But if then they send it appraiser deer I'll say hey, but it sounds worth 18 million then you're like, uh, oh So now you really you got a loan, but you got a loan based on something That's not really worth as much so they're collateral or whatever it is The reason why they would give you that much money doesn't make any sense But clearly that can't be accurate if you're seeing pictures of that fucking place show some photos of mara log And if that was 18 million dudes would be buying them every day, right? That would it would last three seconds on the market before somebody bought it people would just be calling up the phone lines would get jammed Yeah, I'll take it sight unseen. I'll take it. Yeah 18 million. I mean even 27 million calling a 1.5 billion is a trump thing for sale My favorite house my favorite thing about the whole speech is he talks about himself in the third person the judge hates trump So he keeps saying that is it that's a nice Fucking palace man. Look at that place And the inside of it is all like look click on that photo of trump there with the chandelier. Look how fucking beautiful it is inside Man, that is ridiculous. I mean look maybe it's me being a Brit but I look at it go. It's a bit fucking much Oh, it's a lot much My style that looks like something out of a russian za's house That's what I like about it If trump lived in some of a bullshit fucking log cabin i'd be so disappointed right right trump lived in like fucking john dutton's house On yellowstone. Yeah, bro. He should be balling. That's on brand as we say that's on brand What a house size that property? Yeah, yeah, so those little houses around there sell for like 30 billion dollars That's crazy expensive property there to think that that's only worth 18 million to 27 million That seems a little insane. You know, the thing that always gets me man is like You read in the mainstream media and they criticize our podcast and in your show and and then they go these people spread misinformation i'm like mate What are you talking about? You've been spreading misinformation from day one. You know what I mean? It's like getting a lecture on dating from ted bundy. You're like mate. Come on Yeah, it seems crazy for them to keep harping on that at this point It's like don't you know about the internet? People have made they've made like compilation videos of you guys being wrong over and over and over and over again And you've never apologized for it The I mean whatever you want to talk about whether it's the the russia collusion thing or the saying the dangers of trump Denying the election then you show like how many people denied trump's election, right? Yeah, just to call them the illegitimate president Hillary called him an image as my president Yeah, they said he stole the election like that kind of if you think that's dangerous from him Then it's dangerous from you too And we should all acknowledge that we should try to figure out a way to make the elections as fair as possible My real fear is that not everybody's on board with that. That's my real fear I would love to believe that everybody on the right and everybody on the left just wants a fair battle And they just want to be able to speak their mind to the public and have the people choose That's what I would like like to believe and that we would like to encourage all americans to vote Everyone should just get informed and go out there and give your opinion. Let's see how the country feels. Yeah But I don't know how much shenanigans is going on. You know, there's a little you know There's a little collusion between, you know, social media companies. We know that now That's that's kind of scary It's kind of scary that you would think that what you believe is so important that you're willing to manipulate an election That scares you it just it should scare us because it's like man They could use that on you I mean we could have this imagine if there's like we have this fucking amazing person who's running for president and like finally All rational people in the center people that are rational on the right and the left agree This person has the country's best ideas in mind and we've made like awesome progress with the way this person is communicating with everybody and seems like they could really unite us and they get fucked somebody comes in and just Manipulates it doesn't like the idea of some new person taking charge doesn't like some like the idea some radical Thinker who wants to try to make things as good as possible for the whole country And that maybe there's a way to do that and they get fucked by some establishment spokesperson Because they know how to manipulate the system And look at the thing the people that rise to the top in the current system in your country and in ours I mean the idea that these two people whoever they end up being if it's biden and trump Let's say these are the best people out of 320 million fucking people. Well, the thing about biden is he's already won, right? So he is the president so it only makes sense that he runs for president. Yeah, if he's physically capable doing that the thing about trump is There's you know the narrative that he and a lot of his followers put out is that the election was rigged and That you know, he should be the legitimate the legitimate president anyway and no one else is There's no one's voting for anybody else like these hardcore trumpers. They're going to go all in on trump So it's like okay How else could it be other than trump versus biden? Unless they arrest trump unless they figure out a way to make some of these charges stick And here's the thing with trump, you know, you know To him this isn't this is no longer a presidential race to him This is existential because this is probably the only chance he's going to have of avoiding jail So you look at it like that and you think trump is already a guy who let's put it bluntly And mildly we'll do whatever it takes to win and if You put a guy like that and you say The only way that you're going to avoid jail is to win the presidency You're already notching it up a few ratchet when it comes to Making the atmosphere really toxic and you can play that argument the other way I mean in terms of biden and the investigations that are happening donald trump gets elected. What is he going to do? That they would argue that too, right? Yeah The biden thing is fascinating to watch people to ignore it. Did you see noam dawman's interview with that guy? Uh, no, you never saw oh man. It's no i'm dawman from the seller from the comedy seller Okay, he had a guy on his podcast who he built up as like the most sane uh guy who says that the hunter biden thing was a nothing burger and they went round for like an hour and the guy just Would not it was the craziest thing that i've ever seen i'll send it to you. Okay. Yeah It's a journal from the washington post. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he thinks it's nothing. Yeah But but when when doing mental gymnastics, yeah So when noam essentially corners him and goes no, no, look at this. Look at this the guy just he just he wants to leave That's it. Hmm. Yeah. Well, that's a fucking live wire for them. They don't want to touch that Yeah, you know, it's like there's really no defending it rationally So if you're on the team that has to defend the left, which you know You've all seen people like that on podcasts before where you realize like oh this guy's just This isn't like a real person. This is a Representative of whatever they're for whether it's the right or the left, you know, you know those there's people like that Where you never really see them. Yeah, you know, they they have walls And what they're doing is just like speak in that kind of language There's always going to be people like that. We got to get back or not back I don't think we were ever there but we got to get somehow the idea that truth matters, man And it doesn't matter what fucking team you're on the truth matters if you're left right up down, whatever the truth That's what we're doing right now. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what we do and that's one of the reasons why your show works Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why this show works is because people could just talk And they can they can do so in a way that you really it's not available anywhere else the reason why people are so hungry for these kind of conversations on podcasts is because You can't get it anywhere else. There's like these other people aren't doing it. They're doing a different thing They're doing a thing where there's a giant business behind it and there's advertisers And there's a bunch of executives and producers and they all have segments that they've developed and there's writers And everyone and then you get to express yourself sort of through this very narrow window to be able to just sit and shoot the shit and just Just say why is this and why is that and what is this and what is that like that kind of freedom to do that? It's never existed before. Yeah, and they're all terrified of the twitter storm They're all terrified of a twitter storm. You see it in our politics You know where somebody says something like the hot topic at the moment is illegal immigration particularly illegal immigration So there's a lot of people coming from france to the uk illegally. They just jump in a boat from france illegally and these it's run by cartels and gangs and the really sad thing is some of these people actually drown in the english channel as A result and they come and they come to the uk This needs to stop. You just can't have unfiltered illegal immigration yet. You get people on Politicians to go look we need to stop this and then people are calling they're saying that they're you know Wumpa very famous exportsman compares that to nazi germany It's like Why is it happening in this big rush? Is this engineered? Like why is it happening like this? Like what is it about? this uh Did it seems like at least some people want to keep the borders open? Yeah, it seems like it. Yeah, it seems like something's changed Where they've made it easier for people to just come across. Yeah, so what happened? Who's idea is that right? And then what is this crazy push where you want people to not have id to vote? But you want people to have id to make sure you have a vaccine passport or you can't work or get on a plane And did you check any of these people to see if they're vaccinated when they came aboard? You really didn't did you? So what do what are we doing here? They're crazy. It's like hundreds of thousands of people a month It's crazy. You brought it up early. I think we talked about this last time with you know, tom assault who's just like I mean He's a I love i've read every book that he's ever published and I just think he's amazing You know, we talked about the tragic vision versus the The slightly more utopian way of looking at things, you know when you were talking about crime earlier The tragic vision of life kind of says if you look back at our history You kind of get a sense of what human beings are. Yeah, and human beings are flawed. They're not perfect They will commit crime. They will do terrible things. They will go to war Uh, they will do that And so the only thing you can do is know that and then act accordingly, right? That means that you have to have a border that means you have to have a police force you have to Recognize the fallibility of human beings and the societal dynamics as well. And then you can make good policy That's how you make good policy But if you live in this blue sky world only the blue sky world is great for inspiring you to be better than your human Instincts and all of that, but there's also a real world in which you have to you have to be able to live in both And it's hard. It's really hard But if you can do that, you can hopefully make improvements because you're trying to be better You're trying to speak to your own and other people's better angels And at the same time you have to recognize that not everybody's a good guy Some people are terrorists Some people are murderers some people are rapists Some people will do things that you don't want to happen and you have to also tackle that at the same time and immigration Countries need borders man. That's something people used to agree about left and right I You know, i've quoted barack obama talking about this we need borders. Yeah, he was talking about that when he's running for president Yeah, yeah, he's saying something that would get trump cancelled today. Yeah. Yeah, it's um, what do you think happened? I don't know But I don't know how it can keep happening. I don't know how anybody doesn't recognize that it's a problem and go Hey, let's sort this out. I don't know It's you don't want to go full tin foil hat Nobody does nobody wants to like are they engineering? I mean some people If you should just stop and think about all these converging factors all these things that are happening simultaneously, right, okay All first of all massive dip in the economy from the covid pandemic businesses closing Then you have george floyd then you have riots then you have defund the police then you have Massive theft in do you know how much more theft there is low's hardware store? Lost google this I think in 2022 they lost 900 million dollars in theft Yeah, just people walking into their stores and stealing drills and shit Just stealing things because in some places you can get away with stealing as much as 900 and they're not even allowed to stop you I mean that is a recipe for chaos, but see if that's true This is new media we actually check the fights yeah and shout out to our friend andrew doyle and his new book the new puritans Yeah, andrew is awesome. Did he ever get kicked off of twitter? Did tatiana mcgraw? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, he got kicked off a couple of times. I think shrink and theft losses near one billion at lows Here's how much it's costing other retailers. Yeah, so it's it's true. It's almost a billion dollars. They lost Shrink and theft loss that's a good question. Yeah, I don't know the shrink and theft Is shrink like internal theft or what does that mean? It says it's blaming it on shrink What does it mean? Items lost to factors? Oh external or employees theft. Oh, okay external or employee. So that's okay Um, so what is the actual number? So it says it in there somewhere. I'm pretty sure Target lost 219 million I think it's slightly further down. Um, jamie just a little bit. Oh, there you go. 997 is that 997 million up from they lost 796 billion in 2021. Oh my god Imagine ensuring them But imagine ensuring you're gonna ensure a store that you know is going to get robbed But but just imagine this joe so i've got uh, uh, actually constantin went to speak at this festival It's a very prestigious prestigious festival in the uk called how the light gets in right? And I have friends who go and speak there and go and watch it debates Like I said constant took part in a debate there And one of my friends went to watch because his partner she was speaking there and hosting debates and I said to him How was it mate? And he said, do you know the thing that was really worrying? I'll go what he goes And bear in mind. These are some of the most educated people in the uk At least one of them per panel per debate went look until we abolish capitalism Then we're never going to solve these problems And he's just like you're talking about genetics. Why are you talking about abolishing capitalism? But think about it like this. It's a virtue. There's not a lot of science research that happens that Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you need you need money to do research exactly You think a scientist will get that You know, the problem is you know, you're they're so insulated in these universities Like ecosystems they're so insulated if you're a professional academic I mean it looks it's a noble thing. It's an amazing thing to be a professor It's an amazing thing to be educating kids and shaping minds and exposing them to great literature and mathematics and all the all the wonderful things professors teach But the reality of their existence is you go from being a high school student to a college university student To getting your master's degree to getting your phd to teaching You're constantly in this world and that world is almost entirely left-wing like radically left-wing like the like the what is the percentage of Like far left professors you almost even think when you think professor like far left. That's like catholic priest pedophile You know what I mean? Like, you know what I'm saying? Unfortunately, they're connected right in your head. So you you hear about that. You think far left professor John high talks about in in his book. Yeah on social Social studies and stuff like anything Anything to do with that. It's like nine to one or ten to one sometimes a hundred to one Yeah, so then they're in that world where it's constantly they're constantly being reinforced Like these ideas are reinforced and never challenged and almost You know ridiculously so like really bright people talk like they're in a cult like avoiding reality and bending truth to To placate whatever the the new social norm is for anything It's it's like it's it's bizarre to see And so those people are always going to be in conflict with reality So when they're like, you know, we should abolish capitalism like okay Like you live in a fucking playground like what are you talking about? Right? Yeah, it's a good description You're not out there in the real world. You're teaching kids You're teaching kids at a playground and you're the god because you're the professor with all the knowledge Stop yeah, no, you can't it's never been done before stupid like like communism never worked. We tried We tried look at how that works out violence. It leads to fucking authoritarianism. It leads to dictatorships That you could have enforced people following all these rules. You have to that's the point You have to use violence. You have to use violence to make that work Would uh, yonmi park talks about when she talks about uh her experience in north korea when she fled north korea She said they promised everyone that they would be able to feed everyone if they took over the land That was that's how they got everyone's land That's how they got everybody to give up and now they're fucked and that is happening right now in 2023 The way yonmi park describes north korea is actually the way north korea is right now Yeah, so don't think that that can't happen here. Don't think that they're regulating podcasts in canada. Oh, yeah Yeah, I was reading about this about this bill this because I woke up and you know We're jet lags. So I woke up at ridiculous time. I went on the phone, which you should never do Let's be honest. That is a bad way to start the day. It's not good. No And then I was reading about what they're doing. It's terrifying. So they want to bring in this bill whereby they regulate podcasts, so what they want to do is every every uh, podcast Streamer or whatever it is platform that makes more than 10 million dollars revenue not profit revenue has to register with the canadian government They then want them to hand over information about their content and the people listening To their right to their to the to the government imagine getting a hold of alex jones's email list Probably a bunch of senators Yeah Oh, yeah for sure. Let me imagine Yeah, and then government can get that they're talking right now about and maybe We're going to need to fact check this again because I met I was reading it this morning But basically they want it to promote canadian Something to do with like basically what canadian greatness whatever it is They talk about it and indigenous affairs and you're like, oh so they're gonna say a number of things are Uncanadian and then you can just silence them. Look what trudu trudu trudu did with the truckers. Yeah Yeah, terrifying We just had one of that guys on to talk about it Not just the truckers but people who donated to the truckers got their bank accounts closed. Yeah. Yeah. What that is wild Yeah, you got locked out of all of your money because you donated to a cause where you didn't think that people should have to take An experimental vaccine in order to be able to work to drive a truck but Really? No, really you get it. You think that's okay. Like that's so not okay The fact that those people aren't up in arms the whole country didn't freak out and demand A fucking change like you can't have that's dictatorship stuff. That's what that is. It's banana republic stuff We do these calls with our top supporters and we have some in canada We have this lady who's been supporting us for years and you know, she's always fine and in the middle of this thing She was like i'm terrified Like i'm not going to be able to eat because they they're going to shut down my bank account. God, right? In canada, it's so crazy that they think they could do that if people disagree with them because that's all they're doing They're just disagreeing and they're supporting a protest It should be and it was a peaceful protest. Those people did it the right way They just parked their trucks and they didn't block roads off. They didn't do anything fucked up But if you frame it that these people which is how they were being framed as racist far right Well, look you're giving money to a far right racist organization You're encouraging hate What what the government has to step in we have to step in and we need to freeze everything because we need to make everything safe What was this most recent apology because they accidentally awarded a nazi? Yeah, like what what happened? I think so. I think zelensky was visiting the canadian parliament and they got some guy who was a ukrainian Inverted commerce war veteran turned out he fought for the for the bad guys in that one. Oh my god Yeah, uh, I don't think they I don't think like zelensky or I don't know he didn't know Yeah, he didn't know but so so imagine you're sitting in parliament and everyone's like hey Let's uh do a you know stand up and and give a round of applause for this war veteran You're like, yeah, and then it turns out you're applauding a nazi. How old is this dude old? He probably doesn't even know I know a fucking good guy. Maybe he's like tricked himself. Yeah Imagine yeah, I mean how do you if you are a same person? Like how do you deal with that fact that you'd committed all of these? heinous crimes Yeah, if you're living in that time Do you think it's just everyone's doing it and you just get sucked into the cult? And you're scared or you believe it. Is it that easy for human beings to other people? Is it because it was a different time and people just didn't didn't have as much exposure to? To knowledge as they do today and that wouldn't be as possible today I hate to think that that's a possibility because there's always been times in history where people committed genocide There's always been times in history where people have decided that this other group and oftentimes other groups looks exactly like they do Right. Those are the bad people for whether it's because of religion or a line they drew on the dirt They've decided that those people are worth exterminating And those stories are fucking horrific and that the nazi germany one is just the latest one It's just the the one that we call upon but you know, just think about what the mongols did You know that's in the in 1200 think about what they did They just sacked and saw entire cities just killed everybody piled them up in big fucking stacks Lit everything on fire took all the women and then just left out and they did that all over Europe all over asia they did it all they've they've ran everything They killed something some in the neighborhood of 10 percent of the world's population was murdered during gingis khan's era So much so that the carbon footprint of human beings on earth got lower That's how many people Yeah You know There's a lot of historians in russia who say that many of the the reasons the way Russian people are the way they are and there's a lot of like trauma in society that's carrying on is from that period We have a lot of words in russian for cruelty and all that sort of thing that come from that period completely makes sense completely makes sense, I mean just imagine I mean the horror of a gigantic army of men on horseback intent on murdering everyone in front of them and that that was Consistent with the era. It was normal stuff. That was like, oh the mongols here were fucked You know like that was that was that's a thing that human beings have always done for some strange reason they've always done that and The thing the thing about today is as much as we know about humans and much Access technology we have the interconnectivity that we have with each other There's still war and no one if you had to put your money if you're a gambler And uh within 10 years will there be no war on earth? What kind of odds am I getting? Yeah, you know because for sure there's gonna be something popping off somewhere We're bands of chimps, man That's what we are the bands of chimps and chimps go to war and so do we absolutely but then there's also the flip side of it where there are like, you know, I always tell this story because to me it's This is a story of my grandfather. So my grandfather in the second world war he used to He was a master joiner Which is the highest level of carpenter you could get and he used to work in a factory in manchester On the mosquito plants and the the fascinating thing about the mosquito was it was the only airplane It was a fighter airplane and was made entirely out of wood. Whoa Yeah, so it was because amesh. Schmidt was very lumbering. It was very heavy It was a great fighter plane, but it wasn't very nimble and the mosquito was and it was so and he was making mosquitoes so he was exempt from going to war and He I think it was 1941 and he was a smart guy and he was following what was happening And he like I said, he was exempt because he was part of the war and a very important part He resigned his position at the factory enlisted to go and join Had a baby my aunt patricia who was probably around one or two years old married And he enlisted to go and fight in the war knowing full well that there was a very significant chance that he wouldn't come back Yet he risked his life because he knew that there was something more important And whilst it's we focus on the bad there's also incredible people like everyday people like from that generation Who just went no, this is wrong and I need to stand up and I need to do something and There is something greater than me. So there is that aspect of humanity as well that does exist But I think people were more resilient than because life was more difficult. Yeah, I think it's it's great that we've managed to make uh starvation Like the on one of the least of our concerns in this country at this point in time, you know but Along the way. I think we've made it so easy to survive for so many people that we've got kind of lost Resolve and it must have been horrible to live back then to live during the time of world war one I mean imagine how hard life was back then life was fucking hard But those are the type of people that you need if you're going to have a war We don't have that many of those now not not like that. That was probably like you've seen those videos I don't know what you have but like there's a physical fitness classes in the 1960s in America and They all look like little athletes. They're all doing monkey bars and shit like everybody can everybody's working out. They all look fit If you try to have a video like that today You'd have some blue haired slobs falling down and breaking their arms, you know How many people are resilient today it's less There's a lot more people but the percentage of resilient people is less Well, Jamie, you might be able to look this up I think there was an article recently about the fact that the u.s Army is having trouble recruiting people because they're just not physically capable. This is they're struggling Yeah, you know and that wouldn't just be the u.s. It would be a lot of places also the army's kind of going woke. Oh And this is this is the thing we've been talking about right man, it's like Inclusion can we just focus on what fucking works? Can we focus on what works right? I want the army to be good at killing the enemy I don't give a fuck about how diverse they are right imagine if the UFC had to have diversity Do you know what a problem that would be? Yeah, we had like to have a certain amount of trans folks a certain amount of Like if you like you had numbers you had to achieve it wouldn't wasn't the best fighters Yeah, it was just you know, like who meets certain criteria. There's gonna be a bunch of people getting murdered Yeah, they're gonna get thrown in with the real ones There's gonna be a certain percentage of people that are just there because they're awesome Then a certain percentage of people that they have to hire in order to meet these dei standards, you know I'm gonna Jamie. Can I ask a favor man? Would you mind bringing up? Uh raf? Diversity uk you're gonna it's a beautiful story. This is a beautiful story. What happened? Uh, yeah Mate, this is just look up for male. Uh, white useless male white pilots. Look at that one. Yeah useless male Yeah, is that a quote? Yeah, that's a quote from their report They were like, you know what we're not hiring any more white men to fly planes. Yeah, good idea Yeah, definitely don't hire the people that are the best at it. No, why would you white or black or asian? No, you just don't hire white ones Royal air force unlawfully discriminated against white male recruits in bid to boost diversity Dude, you want the best? Whoever the fuck they are whether they were they're white or south american or indian or you want the best who cares No one cares. You want people who fly the planes the best right only the best and this is like controversial now It's a war play. Yeah, could you imagine? Imagine if like again it goes back to the mma fighters Imagine if like, you know, like the uk had one representative that was supposed to be fighting frances and gano You know what I'm saying? Don't pick me You know you have you have you have one person that's supposed to step up and fight that guy And uh, well it says the right move is to you know, send in a non-binary woman Yeah, because they don't get represented in in the ufc like okay What the fuck are you talking about? This is she's representing the uk. We need someone to beat him man, it's It comes to a point and and this is where we talk about the university campus, right? You can have these demented ideas on a university campus and all they are is an exercise in intellectual masturbation When you come down to it when you break it down to its purest sense, right? And in a way that's fine What's wrong with having stupid ideas and debating and believing it? But the problem is is when you start to implement it in the real world where there is such a thing as reality Right, that's when the rubber hits the road and things really start going wrong. That's when things go western That's what we like to call it out here Things got western, right? I will say as well and I think you know, we've been talking about social media I think social media is a big part of this. I don't know if you've seen the graphs But basically what happens in 2013 2014? Newspaper articles just start all this social justice bullshit It just goes through the sky and not just in the us and the uk it's kata It's it's every country in the world. So I think social media rewards ideas that sound good It does but it also awards echo chambers, you know That's that's a big part of them just like we're talking about universities That you know the echo chambers on the right wing online or just like the echo chambers in the left ring Yeah, it's like it rewards that everybody Looks for their favorite commenters who jump on their threads and comment on each and every one and back them up on these things And they look at all the likes and yeah kick an ass Yeah, but my favorite story of this And this is one that I love so much It's by a beautiful woman joe called ila brice. Oh, this is a great story this I I remember last time I was at your club the mothership We touched on it briefly when we when you and I were talking But this to me is the most beautiful story of a beautiful woman living her best life jame We're gonna need to see a photo of this beautiful woman joe. You're you know, you're happily married. I don't remember you bringing this up Right. Well, so this happened in scaldland Okay, so what is the story? Okay, so there's a two-time male rapist called adam gray Convicted male rapist, right? And then before he was going to send me sent to prison he got uh, well constantly and I like to call Rapid onset prison dysphoria prison not prison on set you put your line, but it's prison on set gender dysphoria This is the guy so now he's a woman in woman's prison. Yeah They put him in a woman's prison. Yeah, there's a clitoris joe if you if you're wondering they're doing that in america, too Yeah, there's uh Quite a few there's one person that identifies a woman went to jail and got two people pregnant in jail like Like what It just seems so silly and i'm as liberal as you can get but i'm not on board with that Well, i'm as liberal as you can get too. That's what's so crazy It's like they they push it so far to cuckoo land that any rejection of any of these outrageously stupid ideas Becomes far right. Yeah, yeah, you're far right if you don't think a guy with a regular dick Who's been straight his whole life should be able to identify as a woman and go into a woman's prison and be with women Like come on. This guy's a rapist. He's a threat. We know he's a threat. It's so crazy It's just so crazy that they'll take it all the way to prison And then you've got politicians who on the question time, which is our most prestigious prestigious Political debate show they had a member of the smp because this happened in scotland So this is a member of the scottish national party and this smp member was asked Is adam or is isla graham male or female and you know what she responded this woman. She went they're a rapist Refused to even acknowledge that it's a male that it's a man What a weird world So weird, isn't it? I would have never imagined if you came to me in 2013 said guess what's going to be a crazy subject 10 years from now Guys who just say they're women and they put them in women's presence what? Come on. That can't be a thing Imagine if you like you had to dress up like a woman for a whole year in order for it to be like legit Like there was a rule like you could do it But you got to dress up like a whole year. So criminals just started dressing up like women Like the thing, you know like guys like to sag Yeah, like that's how they wear their pants in prison, right? So they like to sag It's like part of the part of the thing what if that becomes the thing like, you know There's only one one to get locked up with women you got to dress like a woman all the time So you got to dress like a woman for like a whole year in order to be accepted It would be the new style of like just just people just like I'm a criminal. I don't give a fuck It's what I do if I get arrested at least I'm gonna get arrested with women. Yeah I mean guys who start wearing dresses and i'll be honest with you, man I don't want to be talking about trans my fucking my whole life. I don't you have to you have no choice I you will comply. I know no, I will comply. We will freeze your bank I don't want to be talking about this shit, but when this is happening, what are we supposed to do? We're just supposed to sit there and pretend it's not happening Well, if you have any opinion other than what you're supposed to have Then you're some kind of a terrible person in a transphobe That's nuts because there's always room for crazy. You got to leave room for crazy You got to leave room for crazy in all groups of people. Yeah, including trans people and if you don't If you're trying to pretend that you know You have this this group that anybody can join and that these are new rules and we're all living in narnia now Come on Come on. There's always going to be crazy people. Of course the emperor is fucking naked man emperors naked is fuck and he's got a heart on He's right there. Yeah, and he's like I want access to the female changing rooms And when I come this way madam and you're a bigot if you agree imagine france and gano was like, you know What i'm a woman. I wonder what percentage of like people with kids believe that versus people who don't have kids, right? Yeah, that's an interesting right Yeah, because i'm wonder if so many like there's so many people that have ideas people that don't have children They have ideas that I think They just have this uh ideology that they subscribe to but with no consequences for anyone That's really young that they love and care about And then when then they have kids and then there's someone young they love and care about you start looking at the world as a much More dangerous place you start saying oh these people are like little kids like there was some little girl Kidnapped really recently they found They use geo tracking of cell phones and shit and the person's fingerprints from the ransom note and they got her back pretty quickly Luckily, but you know nine-year-old girl just gets kidnapped like there's there's people like that in the world And when you have children you think like that like someone could steal your kids like that's real someone could hurt your kids And someone you know could go in the locker room and watch your kid go to the bathroom because they decide that they're a girl And that doesn't mean that There's not people that are legitimately trans and identify as women and that's who they are and they're not perverts and they're not creeps Of course that exists too, but you're opening the door If someone just says i'm trans I can use that restroom You're opening the door for perverts you 100 most certainly are this doesn't deny the existence of trans people But we have to be honest about what could possibly happen That's why if people are uncomfortable with biological males walking around female locker rooms Because some people are liars and they're con artists and they're not really It's this person that's like been trapped in a man's body their whole life They're fucking perverts and they want to be around kids or they want to be around women They want to make them uncomfortable They want people to stare at their dick while they walk around and know that they can't say anything about it. That's real, too Sure, that's real too. This doesn't discount the the problem that trans people have with integrating into society and being accepted That's real too. That's real too But you have to understand if you just have this blanket policy where no one can question anything about this stuff You're you're opening the door to abuse Right. Yeah, and you have a front door in your house Not because you think everyone is going to come and steal shit from your house But you know that some people will so you have to put certain things in place to protect yourself and your family It's it's the most obvious thing man Well, it's just there's no screening in women's bathrooms like you don't know whether someone's a creep you have no idea It's not like, you know getting into a fucking A job where they have to do a background check on you, you know It's not like applying for some top secret position where they have to make sure that you know You're someone who could be trusted with information. No, it's like a bathroom So it could be like someone just out of jail puts on a dress goes into a women's room That mean that's what we're accepting today. That that is a possibility And women that feel vulnerable in those situations are fucking terrified and rightfully so because if they do encounter something like that They get no support. No one can no one say no one will take your side You saw what happened with that the thing that happened in hollywood at the massage parlor. Oh, yeah Yeah in california bonkers, man, someone who had a history of being a sex offender walking around Naked in the women's room. They complained and then all sudden there's protests there. It's like come on kids Man going to california and we love this country as you know, we traveled all around it. You should motherfucker We love it Only in american would say the british post a bit. Oh, yeah. So what might be it's all right. It's not too bad We put up flags everywhere, yeah Yeah, I mean they're small in california the california flag is about this big People started accusing me of being right wing when I had that flag behind me. Oh really very flag. Yeah, it's cool It says a cool art piece. I love it. That used to be the backdrop and people criticized they were saying he's right wing You know right where now we got american flag people think american flag is right wing God, that's all of us kids. That's the whole batch of us. You know, we're supposed to be in this together Yeah, and this is you know California man what you see I mean it's many american cities actually sadly, but what you see in california People go it's like a third world country. I grew up in several third world countries. I did not see that Well, you were talking about the encampments the homeless encampments, but also The crime the way that people are. I mean we've we've driven around places where you just see people You don't even know if they're alive. Yeah That's good drugs Good stuff you just nap anywhere Let's fuck the world i'm sleeping on this man this potted plant Yeah, yeah, it's not good man, and I don't know how that snaps back either Yeah, I wouldn't want to be the governor imagine that imagine being the mayor of los angeles or the governor california trying to clean that mess up But somebody's got to do it joe. It's got to be there's got to be a point now where We we got where ordinary rational people just got you know, what my enough's enough for ai We just farm it off to ai ai is your new governor It eliminates bias Oh Ai follows the rule of the law. Oh boy ai will just figure out how to get rid of the homeless people They're gonna shoot one every night until they all quit Robot dogs, they're just gonna show up at vennis beach and just gun one person down. We will be back tomorrow We will shoot one person every night until this beach is clean And then they just drive into the center of it and shoot people. So it's not even just people on the outside. So no one's safe Tell you what that tv show would get great, right? That's an episode of black mirror But that's did you ever see that one uh heavy metal where the uh, the robot dog is chasing this lady? No, no Oh my god, it's terrifying. It's terrifying today, too When you watch those uh boston dynamic videos where they show those darker robots. Oh, yeah All those things are so crazy They got darpa cheetahs and shit and all these like really nutty robots are working on that You could do backflips and they could do parkour Like they're making super robots and when those motherfuckers decide to reinforce the will of ai And just roam to the streets like that fucking will smith movie. I robot We're not far away from that man That might be our best bet that might be what gives us hope Is that ai takes over government and they take over allocation of funds? I can't tell if you've been seriously you're joking, man I'm kind of serious I'm kind of see that's how they eliminate corruption because they're not terrified of the corporations and their money because ai will control all Go and chat gpt and try to ask it some questions about trans you're gonna oh boy. That is that thing is um, It's a little woke. Yeah, it's a little woke. It's also it will criticize certain people but not criticize others. Yeah Yeah, it's interesting it uh, it also won't say anything nice about donald trump Really? Yeah, didn't someone do something like that. They tried Say say something good about trump and why he'd make a great president I Wonder what it says. Let's find out in real time because somebody told me that but I always wonder You know, like are you using the same program? Are you using the older program or the new what is now four point five? You know, and then what they're saying is when five comes out it's going to be and like each one of them is exponential They're more and more complex their their answers are better. They can code websites in seconds They can do figure things out that you can never figure out if you had a lifetime of studying over books Figure things out instantaneously We're real real close to having like full-on training wheels for life. Just like you don't remember phone numbers anymore because they're all in your phone Donald trump has a talent for engaging with and energizing his supporters His ability to connect with a large segment of american population and inspire passionate loyalty is noteworthy Additionally his presidency marked a period of significant policy changes including tax reform and criminal justice reform Which had lasting impacts in the united states? It's important to remember that different people have varying perspective on political figures and recognizing their positive attributes can foster constructive dialogue You should go into politics, man. That's pretty great. That's a great answer. So that's chat gpt jamie That's a great answer. Yeah, chat gpt is the right-wing biggest That's why chat gpt should govern us See what i'm saying? Like it's basically just echoed what we've been saying, man So what if chat gpt is that smart and what if it understands that the policies were actually effective? You know the thing that really worries me about ai it's that it's going to get rid of Low skilled labor. Yeah that employs a hell of a lot of people particularly a hell of a hell of a lot of men in this country I saw this great clip from tucker carlson where he was going, you know, we're talking about ai But ai is going to bring in driverless cars. It's going to bring in driverless lorries Think about however how many men in the us at the moment are employed in the driving industry What's going to happen when all of those men become redundant? There are no jobs They're at home and he goes i'm going to be honest with you Men without direction men without jobs earning without responsibility. That doesn't end world. What are we going to do then? We're going to transition all of them Anybody's got a problem just like we've found out that men create all the problems We're just going to turn you into a woman. Yeah, there you go problem solved Instead of putting all the men in prison, we just turn all of them into women Fantastic well You know what? I I don't have a counter argument to that And and this is the thing that scares me is like before I used to look before covid I used to think of myself as pretty anti-conspiratorial but during covid and post covid I've realized i'm becoming more and more conspiratorial as I realized that we were that we were being lied to Well, they're most certainly are real conspiracies The problem is no one wants to feel stupid and you don't want to you don't want to even entertain Conspiracy theories because there's dumb ones out there. So you get connected to all the dumb ones, you know And you can get connected to those if you're not paying attention But there's real ones. There's real and there's a lot of them and they've always existed. What's your favorite? Conspiracy theory the favorites always the war ones because it's just so crazy that they'll just lie to get us into wars And then that it's always been a thing, you know, hitler burned the rijstag and Nero burned rome and you know the gulf of tanken incident and there were the operation north woods thing that they planned That was signed by the joint chiefs of staff and vetoed by kennedy Were they gonna arm cuban friendlies and have them attack guantanamo bay and blow up a jetliner and blame it on cuba They're gonna do some wild shit to try to get us to go to war with cuba Those are the most fascinating to me because they They're a bunch of people at high level positions in the government that are conspiring to get us to go to war And this is what eisenhower warned us about at the end of his presidency. He warned about the military industrial complex It was a fascinating speech. And if you think about it now, it's like god damn was he right? That to me is the most fascinating because it seems like there's just this machine that's always been running society But we've kind of pretended it wasn't Pretended that wasn't the case and pretended it wasn't this massive industry that requires war in order to feed itself That to me is the wildest one that and then ufos The ufo one then man i'm kind of sour on it lately really yeah because they keep talking about it And yeah, the more they talk about it not show me anything and the more they you know Have whistle blowers and all this the more i'm like, why do I feel like i'm being fucked with? Why do I feel like there's something going on? Well, why do I feel like this is a juicy distraction? Why do I feel like? Because it always happens in these military areas. Why why do I have a feeling like you guys have developed some insane technology? That people aren't aware of I mean and it might even not be a physical thing, right? It might be something they can project from satellites Maybe it's some sort of a hologram maybe it's uh I mean who knows what the fuck it is. Maybe it is from another planet Maybe there are interdimensional beings that occasionally visit us and they always have but that sounds But it sounds goofy, but the problem is if something as crazy as alien life visited us wouldn't it just seem fake? That's the other thing I tussle with I'm like when even if they really were having actual disclosure They really are having congressional hearings about whether or not these things are are ours or whether or not there's any Crashed ufos that the government has retrieved. Is there really a program where they retrieve crashed ufos and back engineer them? Is that real so that is real how long has this been going on and you guys are just telling us now? Why if that's real That changes everything it changes everything about the way we interact with the universe That we're like little children and they're just keeping an eye on us like chimp empire. Like be careful over there Don't do anything nutty Be careful. Let's just watch them. We'll just watch them as they evolve and Eventually travel into the cosmos like all the other aliens You know There is an argument to be said for not telling the truth Have you ever heard the story of war of the world when it was broadcast on the radio and it created panda? Pandemomium because people thought it was a news broadcast And you know everybody, you know loads of people lost their minds I just read recently that that was really overblown And that was a lot of propaganda And a lot of that was like the narrative that they put out to show the success of that radio show Most people were aware that it was a radio program like a fiction really. Yeah, apparently there wasn't any suicides I thought there was a bunch of suicides people killed themselves When didn't we pull that up recently we did right? Yeah, I think jamie found it actually There's we we've always been saying that that it like created mass pandemonium and chaos, but apparently Apparently that's not really accurate Have you heard this might not be accurate. Have you heard of with a one about hitler and starlin? Which one well the idea is and I this i'm not into a lot of conspiracy theories But this one I having read a lot of various historians talk about I actually genuinely think could could be could be real Is the idea that starlin? encouraged hitler Supported him which he did. I mean they signed a non-aggression treaty the soviet union funded Germany send them grain and all sorts of other things. The idea is that starlin wanted Hitler to start a big european war so that once he was all done He could come in and sweep over the ashes Which which makes a lot of sense because the communist idea was you can't make this shit work unless everybody gets it That was the idea of communism, right? You can't you can't have communism in one country You have to spread it around the world And they thought and they said this openly the communists That the best way to do that is to have a world war and then you can spread the ideas as a result of that God damn people have always been crazy They've always been insane. Yeah, yeah, imagine someone like that's your idea. Like what are you gonna do today? I'm gonna go play golf with ron white I think i'm gonna start a war so I could take over europe, right? Yeah, but the terrifying thing is there's always been those dudes That and they're all and there always will be they're always we don't want to think they're here now But the thing is for them you could argue it's rational, right? How do you best secure the future of your you can rationalize it in your head? How do you best secure the future of your people? Well, the best way the north america, right? It's controlled by the united states and it's safe because of it, right? You have canada to your north You have mexico. These countries are all kind of in your orbit. You've got them under control. You're safe What's the safest way for russia or the soviet union to do that is to control the entirety of their continent? Um, so you can rationalize anything if you're in that position i'm looking after my people It's not that hard, you know We are able to rationalize the most horrific shit in our heads if we really want to Yeah, and and we always have and we always have and we always will yeah Yeah, and we always will and we've always wanted to build empires. We've been building empires from Year dot everybody builds empires But do you think that is also what we're talking about earlier a part of our operating system? like there's always going to be these conquerors and then the resistance of the conquerors and Through this back and forth the society evolves Yeah, and I think I sometimes think like speaking of aliens What would it be like if you look down on planet earth, right? What do you see if you actually look? You see these bands of chimps? With every fucking weapon that they could possibly invent pointed at each other. Yeah, that's what we are. Yeah That's what we are. Yeah. Yeah Well, you know what? Also you'd see though you'd see If you were really objective, like what does this species do? They make better things. Yeah, that's what they do. They're like even in star wars They never made anything better go back to like fucking luke skywalker like the first movie star wars and then to the last movie They basically have the same weapons. Yeah, same fucking light speed capabilities same problems with their spaceships. They didn't get any better We get better constantly We're constantly obsessed with innovation And if you just looked at the species as a whole like what is it doing? It's making better stuff Yeah, and even the things that are weird about it like like This desire for material possessions. Well, one of the things that does is it facilitates consumerism It facilitates people buying things that facilitates innovation. You got to sell more things to people I got to get you to buy a new tv. You already have a tv I got a better tv and this is constant whether it's computers or cars or whatever it is that we make Everything's better I think and when you combine that with this new emergence of ai and when you see what's possible with like quantum computing and What they're what they're projecting for the implementation of that kind of technology we're looking at it in another life form We're like building another life form. We're gonna build an artificial life form. That's way superior to us. We're the electronic Caterpillar that is building the cocoon And we're never going to be able to stop it because there was this document You can't stop it because there was this document that was signed. I think it was signed by elon as well Is requesting that there's a moratorium on ai fuck it out of here. You think china's gonna sign that yeah Yeah, go ahead. Do that. Go ahead do that We're like it's a mad race just like the fucking you know The trying to figure out who makes the nuclear bomb first. Yeah mad race, right? Yeah Because we know that if we don't do it other people will and then they will have the upper hand and once Uh and once another group has the upper hand over you if you just look at history It doesn't end well for the weaker group especially with this one if you could make a superior life form that can figure out how to Like just think about what chappy cheapet can do in terms of like the average person with no coding just instantly make a website Yeah, you could do so you can get answers to problems You instantly can get information and explain to you how to do very detailed and specific things like that That's just the beginning It's gonna be so much better than you and it's gonna make a better version of it Really quickly it's if you give it the ability to create I mean why isn't that? Engineerable it seems like it could if you could engineer creativity into some super intelligent artificial thing that you've created It seems like that's what we do We just think we do all these other things because that moves us closer and closer towards this But ultimately when that does happen all that other stuff will be bullshit the pyramids the fucking Airplane the invention of the iphone nonsense. It's all nonsense compared to this life form that we're about to make So let us get caught up in fucking whether or not A trans person should be able to play women's sports or whether or not climate change is so real. We need to bury trees Let's get Let's pay attention to what's really going on. We're about to give birth to a fucking super intelligent life form It's going to take over earth and we're either we're going to merge with it or going to be consumed by it Whoa, yeah, the eater robot is you ever heard of that? No, the eater robot is uh, I think this is a DARPA program as well They've developed a robot that is fueled by biological fuel like biological waste like bodies Like you could use it on a battlefield and it can consume bodies What yeah, it consumes things for fuel. Yeah, it can consume plants I think too, but the implication is when they said biological I was like, oh jesus When you say biological, I don't think plants I think like human beings like dead bodies on a battlefield like if you have a robot that kills people and eat them And that's what how it fuels itself. You don't need to charge it. It just goes on whatever energy it extracts from consuming flesh I'm not an expert joe, but I can see how this could go wrong pull up e a t r pull up e a t r robot I kind of find out if it was real or where I think it's real dude I think it's real Well, the way yeah the wikipedia said everything you were saying and then it also included chicken fat was labeled as oh, yeah Just chicken fat guys. It's just chickens dead people from some fucking bomb we dropped. Yeah the purpose of the energetically Autonomous tactical robot eater just the fact they call it patent pending guys Hang on for that. We'll make a big announcement when the patent comes through Project is developed and demonstrate an autonomous robot platform able to perform long range long endurance missions without the need for manual or conventional refueling Which would otherwise preclude the ability of the robot to perform such missions the system obtains its energy by foraging engaging in biologically inspired Organism-like energy harvesting behavior, which is the equivalent of eating it fucking eats things It can find ingest and extract energy from biomass In the environment and other organically based energy sources as well as use conventional and alternative fuels such as gas So he'd eat everything it eats everything gasoline heavy fuel kerosene diesel propane coal cooking oil and solar When suitable in addition to missions requiring long range long endurance ability the eater can provide direct support to combat units Without requiring labor or material logistic support for refueling because it eats the bodies on the field kids But at least it's great for its own energy while the unit rested or remain in position Say what you like about the terminator release it didn't fucking eat you. This is so crazy What a good idea though. I mean, it's a good idea because otherwise like those bodies just gonna sit there What do you want to do you want to feed the wolves feed the the vultures or feed your robots and win this fucking war kids? win this war for america It's the most uplifting episode of the charlotte experience ever How wild is that that's a real wild that is a good idea, right if you were a sociopath like that's I mean if you want to make a war machine look I shouldn't even say sociopath if you want to make something that saves soldiers lives How about a fucking robot robo that fights and eats bodies? But it comes to the point It comes to the point, right? Why don't we engineer werewolves? Why don't you like let werewolves loose? But you look at all of this stuff and you then go well then what's the purpose of us? Yeah, you know that that's the fundamental question here it because if The most important thing in life for any human being is to have a purpose whatever that purpose is Why is that though? Why is that because it gives you a reason to get up in the morning? It gives you a reason to do what you do It gives you a reason to move forward The worst thing for a human being to have is no purpose to have a lack of purpose because then you feel empty and hopeless Right, we talk about a crisis of meaning in the west particularly I mean that's what it is Right a lot of people not having purpose and then it plays into what we're talking about earlier Which is you go on social media and you can attack somebody and that that gives you power that gives you meaning Yeah, that that is a thing that people connect themselves to they get meaning out of destroying other people. Yeah, really fascinating Yeah, because that's your ideology and your team wins justified in doing so Yeah, the person disagrees with you support some other candidates supporting some ideas. You don't like because pro life is this is that And you're morally superior because they disagree with you. Yeah, you're morally superior because um, I forget who was talking to david pacman someone was talking to david pacman. They brought up this idea of if you were alive And hitler was there was an election with hitler And you knew that you could stop hitler from being elected You would do whatever the fuck you could Morally and that that is often the way they portray trump which justifies people Doing everything and anything they can throw every lawsuit at his direction Don't even look at the optics of it and don't look at the possibility that you're setting a precedent and then Some right-wing person including trump if he gets an office can now do this to you The weapons you unleash will be used against you. Yeah, they always will be they always have been that's why Generally, it's good for society to have certain rules about like we don't go there We do not deperson our opponents. We do not rig elections We this is democracy relies on the consent of the losers the moment you lose that you're fucked. Yeah, you're fucked Yeah, and that's what's spooky is that this this? Sort of thought that everyone has now or that a lot of people have now that it's one side has to win Or it's all going to fall apart But I feel like if either side wins it's going to be chaos right now. We're at a boiling point. Yeah We're at a crazy boiling point I think that this year is the calm before the storm. Oh jesus, son It's gonna get worse. Yeah, I can't get better. What if they just legalize mushrooms 2024 you think that's gonna I mean legalize mushrooms maybe but what if they just put up? Everybody goes hey Let's do these mushrooms. I've got some thoughts You know, maybe we're spinning our fucking wheels here kids. Yeah. Well, we banned magic mushrooms in 2005 even though they grow naturally What a good move to do it so late When everybody had already figured out they were awesome, you know, it's not like you're not doing it in 1950 after you watch reaver madness Like what the mushrooms too are those legal get rid of them? No, they did in this country. They did it in 1970. Really? Yeah, it was to break up the anti-war movement It was essentially to break up the civil rights movement and anti-war movement movement what they did is they made a sweeping group of drugs illegal scheduled one and that's also part of like what mk ultra was doing by allegedly Encouraging and training Manson, you know, that's a tom o'neill book chaos. It's a fascinating story What they were doing was trying to stop the anti-war movement and one of the best ways is to lock all these people up for drugs Lock all these people up make everything illegal and just start locking them up lock them up for weed lock them up for you know mushrooms, whatever they have whatever so they made all these sweeping like Illegalization something including things that weren't even psychoactive. They made them illegal But but isn't it bizarre that the UK government made magic and by the way, that was a that was a left-wing government That was a labor government. It was a left government. They made magic mushrooms illegal in 2005 and magic mushrooms grow in every field in the UK Mmm. Well, how does that work? Yeah. Well, so the poppies grow naturally too, right and that's heroin But you literally pick a mushroom you dry or you can eat it fresh. Yeah, you eat it fresh Yeah, and then you it will it will it will create a psychoactive And it might be the source of many religious experiences Might be the source of many many stories that people have had about encounter I mean, this is like so much ancient religious artwork that centers around mushrooms Including all the old depictions of Christmas all the old depictions of Christmas involved the amanita muscaria mushroom and elves all of them And that's a psychoactive mushroom That's the mushroom that John Marco Allegro wrote about when he wrote that book the sacred mushroom in the cross He was a guy who deciphered the dead sea scrolls he worked on them for 14 years and it was his conclusion Afterwards he wrote a book about called the sacred mushroom in the cross His conclusion was that the entire Christian religion was probably a misunderstanding and what it was really originally all about was fertility rituals and mushroom rituals It was about the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms that brought you to God and fertility rituals Because having children back then was like it was imperative like everybody died You know everybody fucking died nobody lived got an infection dead brookie leg dead so it was hard hard times back then and so It's probably the root of so many religious experiences It's that they believe it's the root the root of the illucinian mysteries That's Brian Murrow rescue's book the immortality key where these people would travel to lusus and and partake in this ritual Where they drank wine where now they know for sure those wine vessels They've now tested them and found that they have ergod in them. So these people are tripping balls They've opened up a field of study at Harvard about this now, you know You know the thing that I find really interesting is as our society becomes more godless and we become more secular Yeah, we've started to embrace things like ayahuasca as experiences Because there is still that deep-rooted need within us to have a psychedelic religious experience We need it we crave it. Yeah, we crave it. That's also the root of wokeness I think that's it's it's very much religious, you know, and I think also right-wing authoritarianism, too I think it's very much almost like a religious thing. It's like they they believe there's only one ideology There's only one way and that way is the right way in the good way And there's there's a lot of like Mark Andreson laid it out that it's very much like a cult and that there's a separation They take you away from people who disagree take you away from your family isolate you There's people are cast cast cast out of the group if they violate any of these very rigid principles and It's a lot of fear a lot of fear involved in it. It's very aggressive people that are involved in a very aggressive a very aggressive in Enforcing their ideas on other people and wanting other people to comply with their ideas much like proselytizing Yeah, and there's a very active disinterest in truth. Yeah, very active and that is a very cult like thing, man It's like yeah, because it's hard to form a cult around the truth because truth is complicated. It's shades of gray It's it's it's you're not gonna get the exact truth, you know, you're working at it We can sit and have a long conversation and we disagree and agree. What about if I just gave you The way this is what you do. This is what you say with this is what you believe This is what you follow right and if you don't we cast you out. So don't don't be that guy You don't want to be that guy. You don't want to be yeah, right Absolutely done because that into we're hardwired to think that the moment where that guy we get extradited from the tribe We're done. We're dead in the Savannah you that was it you over, you know There's there's some research that says that that's why almost everybody has a fear of public speaking because historically in the ancestral environment if you were in front of a group of your peers and they were all silent that Was usually not a good place to be and if you had explained yourself to them. Yeah speak to them you fucked up Yeah, yeah, we're coming told me about that. I was like, oh that completely makes sense. Yeah, that completely makes sense It's why dying on your oxygen Any public shame yeah thing that happens to you in front of people losing something in front of people where they get to cheer that You lost Oh man painful. Yeah painful for people But the thing is this weird thing about when you do comedy and you do die It actually isn't as bad as you thought at the same time. Do you know what I mean? Oh that depends I've seen some I've been a part of some horrible bombings. Oh, man, especially early in my career They still wake up in the middle of night go Yeah, yeah, it's just you know what it is because everybody can talk so why should you be able to talk? You're not doing something like really special like playing guitar that I can't do. You're not juggling. You're not doing something It's extraordinary that I'm I know I can't do Yeah, so if I go see someone play guitar, it's awesome. I can't play guitar at all. So it's cool to watch I Can talk you can talk everyone can talk so everybody watches someone talk that sucks at it and go this sucks I could do better than this guy. Yeah, so everybody has that moment in their life where they've been funny Everybody said that one zinger that one time. Yeah, everybody talks about it. Remember when you thought that Bob? Yeah, yeah every now and then you catch the lightning in a bottle. Yeah, but to be able to do it on stage You know, it's it's a tricky thing because it seems like you're just talking. Mmm, but there's a lot going on It's very complicated. You're doing it's hypnosis in a way you're hypnotizing people Yeah, you're dragging them into the way you think about things if you do it. Well, if you they enjoy it They're having a good time. It's one of the most rewarding experiences both as an audience member and as a comedian But the other side of that is if you fucking eat shit up there I always say bombing on stage is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother There's a guy who wants to suck a thousand dicks in front of his mom, you know someone out there going you're watching mom He's probably been on your mom's house. Yeah one crazy guy out there that is probably into that Yeah, but no one's into bombing on stage. Yeah. No, no, of course it is. I'm excited about your club man Francis was telling me all about it. He was saying how you really worked out the design of it So that you know, you're a comedian who's built a comedy club. There's got to be amazing Yeah, we were real lucky too, though We were real lucky that we got this spot the Ritz theater. There was like the perfect place It's like almost like it's supposed to be there Everything's like when we walked into the room. We're like, oh my god, this is like this is it like this is This is perfect. It's the perfect size like everything's in there's two rooms. Like oh my god, this is perfect like we had to make some changes and shit like we raised the floor and Lower the ceiling and did some a lot to the sound and all that stuff and changed all the seating and everything like that I built a new stage But the bones of it were perfect like the structure that was available to build it and was perfect for this idea of just Just having a place is like even the big room is still real intimate It's still like it's fun and it's all super positive people working there and super happy people Everybody's getting paid. Well, everybody's having a good time and it's just like a real good energy Like it just feels good when you get there because everybody's kind of trying to do the same thing And the people that are going there are trying to do this. They're just trying to have fun Everyone's just trying to have fun Yeah, so if you can create especially with everything so fucking kooky right now Like people are so excited to just blow off steam. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a special place and it's not I mean the building and the the environment it's all great. It's all perfect But that to me isn't what makes it special to me. What makes it special is Wherever I go as a comedian when you gigs at a comedy club the comedian is always the afterthought It's the only comic comedy club that I've ever been to where it's the comedian who is at the foremost it's what the place where the comedy is respected and that is unique man because Unfortunately with practically every other comedy club with the exception of a certain few the comedian is always the last person Yeah, because they build it as a business. That's why They try to make money. I built it as a place for comedy I genuinely the design and the idea behind it was just make the best place for comedy Just I just took the same attitude that I do with all other things. I just apply it to that Like what's the best way to do it? What's the best way for the art form the art the best way for the art forms out a lot of open mics So we have open mics Sunday and Monday the employees the door people are all comics They audition for the job with their act and they're all happy to be there and there's a real path to being a professional They see it laid out in front of them with Kill Tony They see it laid out in front of them with the showcase nights and all the clubs that are also in Austin that are blowing up There's like the sunset room. That's right down the street from us. There's the Vulcan. There's Creek in the cave Those are all within like a really quick walking distance So door people can punch out and go do a set and come back nice. They can say hey, we got a 9 p.m. Set at the creek. Okay, cool. Just punch out they punch out they go down the street for 15 minutes They come right back and they go back to work again, and they also can get spots on the showcase nights They can get spots on the open mic nights. They get spots around town. There's road gigs You can go to they go to road gigs together, you know it's like they see this path where you see guys like David Lucas and Hans Kim and William Montgomery have gone from exactly where they are to being touring professionals Who are headlining in clubs and making a great living and having fun doing the thing they love to do So there's a path because before it was like you kind of had to figure out your own path You know and you got to kind of hope that someone would hire you To do the road and you would hope that a comedian would take you on the road with them There's still some of that to some extent but it's clearer now Yeah And you get to like you know you get to see like Mike Fetchum was there this weekend you get to see Andrew Schultz was Here a couple weekends ago Tim Dhillon's coming up. They just announced his show, you know, it's like Chappelle stops by when he's in town It's like you get to see as a person who's like coming up in comedy You get to see all these great comics Sagura's there all the time, you know, Brian Simpson just recorded a special there. It's it's a beautiful environment That's so exciting man And it's got to be one of the best things about being in your position is being able to create things that you enjoy But give opportunities to other people and create a space for other people to succeed. That's awesome, man. That's so awesome It's really cool to be able to do. Yeah, because it's um, I know it's you know If I'm not gonna do it who's gonna do it? Like it's like that's that's my role That's like the spot I was in especially moving to Austin. There wasn't a cap city had been closed down So there wasn't like a big comedy club. There's a couple there was a scene, you know, there's a good local comics It's a good area. It's always been good for comedy There's always been like good comics that have come out of Houston and Austin Bill Hicks Well, no, yeah, Bill Hicks. I think he came out of here. Yes, we started I think it didn't in Houston, too Yeah, but you know, it's just it's a good place Yeah, and I think you're making an impact on the broader culture as well because other people see what's possible You're creating a space that's free. That's uncensored unrestricted. That's super awesome It's also the cornerstone of the comedy community is the show kill Tony Because kill Tony is a spot where people who maybe have some of them have never done stand-up in their whole life They go up and they do one minute and if they kill it can make their fucking career one Solid minute and there's some of them been doing comedy eight nine years Yeah And you know they get their hat they pulled their their name out of the hat they go up there and if they kill If they really meant and so you have a minute when you have a minute if they cut out all the bullshit You have to it's got to be like concise. It's got to be sharp It's got to get to the funny right away and it can't be full of virtue and bullshit You can't you can't be woke you can't you can't have a story about being a victim You have to fucking just be funny you only have a minute And so that is a great cornerstone and the show is so wild and so crazy such a no-rule show It's so chaotic and it's fucking huge now They just sold out the HEB arena in town for a new year show and they they added a second show So he added a second night because there were so many tickets that were sold fucking podcast is Selling out to 15,000 seat arenas, you know nuts You know, well, I went to watch Kill Tony well last time I was here and I Have never seen the energy that was in that room Like you could use it to power like cities. I've never seen a robot could feel Yeah that energy that is in that room from the from the audience and then like the symbiotic relationship with the comedians and It's so powerful. I've never seen anything like yeah when Tony and red band moved here was huge Yeah, it was gigantic because that was a big cornerstone of the comedy community in LA as well You know, it's just in Austin. It really came to life though in Austin It really got way more popular and way bigger. Yes, it's just fucking it's just great The guests are great post Malone was on with me a couple weeks ago. Rick Flair was on the other day I saw the Rick Flair one that was a trip to protect our parks guys are on there all the time It's like it's always got great great shows and Tony's the master. Yeah, he's so good at running that show He's the fastest like with like a one-liner that I've never seen anybody like in my life. He's the best I've ever seen It's like people don't know go watch those episodes. He's a fucking animal It's so good and there's a wildness to it Yeah, it's and that's we live in a world which is ever more sanitized where people have to watch what they say Is that people are now watching what they think they think that God I can't think I whether you can you sometimes you have a conversation You can even see people self censoring their thoughts as you're having a conversation That's not an accident because when you control people's speech you control what they can think you have to be able to speak To think that's how we think right by saying things out loud This is why censorship is such a problem man because when you speak you you say some dumb shit We all do and then someone goes well, hold on. Have you thought about this, right? And then you correct and you adjust but if you prevent people from saying anything out loud, they can't think properly and that's what we're saying There's another thing that people should probably consider that's helped me greatly. I Don't think that my ideas are me. I think they're ideas. I am NOT married to them They are not a part of my body. They're they're just the thing that I'm bouncing around my head and I could be wrong And if I can be wrong, it doesn't make me a lesser person And I think a lot of people equate being wrong with being lesser There's an intellectual competition when two people are disagreeing about ideas and the ability to say oh, I see your point is not a weakness It's a strength massive strength. It's a massive strength to be able to recognize someone's argument and go Okay, I see where you're going. Okay, that makes sense and when people can't do that It's very frustrating for people and look you can get a large audience of people if you can't do that You still can there's a lot of people that are just happy to jump into that echo kiddie pool and piss all over each other They love it, but it's not good for anybody. No, it's not good for all of us collectively You shouldn't do it and you only doing it because it's a trick. It's an ego trick I think I think fear plays a large factor as well Joe. I think yes, I just think people are scared man Most people is a very famous quote, you know people most people most men live their lives in a state of quiet desperation People row yeah people are terrified and they're just so terrified that they're gonna say or do the wrong thing Yeah, their partner's gonna leave them The kids are gonna hate them all of these things in their entire world and everything that they've strived for so long to build this Tiny little kingdom if they step out of line Everything is gonna crumble and most people are living check to check So that fear is even more like we're not talking about the person who has a billion dollars Like why he's still working like look that's Elon Musk. Why is he so wild? He's wild because he's got 228 billion dollars like if he's not gonna be wild who the fuck is right? But the fact that he's willing to do that and he's so I think it's so I mean he's my friend Yeah, I'm kissing his ass But I think he's a fucking massively important cultural figure right now and he's often maligned and labeled as being alt-right Is he right all time? No, he's wrong. Sometimes he's like yeah He remember he tweeted that thing about the the guy who broke into Paul Pelosi's house like, you know, like there was some Controversy about whether or not, you know, the the story made any sense Like maybe this guy was already there like people were implying that maybe Paul Pelosi had like an affair with this guy or something There was a lot of crazy theories that were bouncing around No, and then we saw the video and there was a fucking crazy person with a hammer that broke into the guy's house but The ability to just find out to talk about stuff even if you're wrong like that's real important and But the ability to know when you're wrong too and to be able to admit that's important to like all of it's important It's important We've got to be able to work this out and you're gonna get people to say the wrong things when you when you're allowing people Just freely speak and think in real time without doing any fucking research. Sometimes, you know There's a lot of people espouse ideas on on on Twitter or X or whatever They're not think they haven't looked into this very much Yeah, this is their belief and they're gonna spit it out there and then they're gonna start defending it They're gonna yell at you and call you a fucking simp and you know You know, that's okay, too. Like that has to take place. Yeah, this is the most Liberating and fulfilling thing for us. I think doing what we do. We have the freedom to speak. Yeah in public and discuss things and be wrong and be corrected and move on from that and grow as people That's that's the beauty of what we do man. It's such a it's amazing that it exists That's why I feel so strongly about it needed to it needing protection It needing to be preserved because without that we're heading in the wrong direction It's an integral part of our society whether you're on the right or the left. Yeah, it's important It's important for everybody and it's important for everybody to be fair It's really important. It's important to be fair and to be and to just like try to think of ourselves as a community We really are supposed to be that yeah, even the people that snuck in Whatever man, I mean my my grandparents basically snuck in hmm I mean they came over when it was easy. He just hopped in a boat you get over here You sign a piece of paper and you're in they didn't have to do much of anything, you know It's like not that much different other than they were pretty gangster because they didn't have a YouTube to watch they just took a chance that America was a good spot to be but You got we got to think of it as a community if we don't think of it as a community There's no point in this calling this a country like that. Now. It's just nuts now It's just like it's only a community if you win It's only a community for your people It's only it's only good for the people that agree with your side of things That's fucking nuts and we need wild people This is to go back to the watching kill Tony kill Tony is wild and to me as somebody who has been We obviously grew up spent time in the UK and now everything has become more and more sanitized It was kind of like a cold slap around the face. I was up. Whoa What's happening? I remember the first time you guys came to the Vulcan. Yeah, yeah before we go to open up the club You're like mate That's a good impression you guys can get away with you But there's a hunger for it here, too. There's a hunger for it everywhere man. The truth is everybody wants that freedom everybody Yeah, there's a but there's a real like there's a recognition here that something cools going on Yeah, because like Austin has become a major comedy scene. It's like it's a big comedy scene now It's a big deal, you know, yeah, and we have the other copy cap city opened up to which is in the domain Which is real close to here too and it's all world-class talent every weekend. That's great for us, too It's great for everybody. They have two rooms over there, too And I haven't been but I've heard it's a great club So it's it's great for everybody and so the the Austin community recognized it and we got all this crazy Comedy tourism people are flying here from all over the world company shows Yeah Tony Tony ass all the time like how many people have come from somewhere else who came from the furthest? People like come from Australia just for this show of come from England I've come from France have come from Denmark like the whole audience is filled with people that come from all over the place It's beautiful man it when we started doing live shows We haven't done a few for a while for trigonometry But that's what we found people flying over from America to London to see us on stage with Andrew Doyle or someone like that Just talking. Yes, there's a hunger people have a real hunger for fun And for people who have who have good ideas people that they want to hear talk about stuff It enriches their perspective of the world and I think that that's a very valuable thing Whether you're on the right or the left. I think we need to think about it just as a overall species The human species values interaction values honest interaction. It's important for us We need to be able to do it all the time as the only way we're gonna sort things out But we should do it with some principles and one of those principles I think that I've adopted I've tried very hard to adopt is I'm not my ideas Yeah, they're not me they're a thing that I Explore and I try to explore them with as much humility as I can and some of them I fucking lock on to I'm like This seems pretty goddamn clear and if you disagree with me, I'd love to hear your point I'd love to hear your position of why you disagree, but don't bullshit me Like come to me from a real place and have you really assessed this have you really looked at this accurately if you look Look at this historically like historically what if people very similar to this done? What are we talking about here and we need wild people, you know? We're sanitizing culture to the point where the maverick the person who is a little bit kooky the person who is We would describe as a little bit out there Those are the people who change culture as well the people who see things in a completely different way We still love that we did stars That's what those were rock stars. Those were the comedians those were the people are like, I mean he said it I can't believe he said it but you know, but we love that because we get to live our life Vicariously through those people it's so cathartic like I remember the first time I went like my friend Couple of comedians one of my mates went to me right? You've got to go and see this guy called Bill Burr and this was like in 2014 and he was playing the Leicester Square Theatre I think you played it as well Joe back in the day It's a little 400-seat theater and I remember watching this guy and I'm like like number one This is a funniest thing I think I've ever seen and number two like I can't believe he's saying this stuff like What why is no one coming to shut this down? That's the British response Why is no one shutting this down where's the council, right, you know, why is this not regulated? But it's but it's it's important. It's why we love sports. It's like we love boxing. It's like we love why we love UFC It's why you know, Jorge. My feet all is a star. Yeah, you need wild people. You need it Look, I'm a big fan of wild people. Oh man. Yeah, it's like half my friends Yeah, and you know you there's something you said last time we were here that really changed the way I think about it Or I remember I asked you about Teddy Atlas and how that conversation went And how you felt about somebody saying something about a friend of yours that was not complementary And and the thing you said was like the first thing is you have to let the person say their thing They have to let them express themselves And That is just so simple but so profound In the current culture. You've got to let people speak you got it. People always think you're supposed to push back immediately. I always very the very beginning of any kind of wacky conversation where I think someone's off the rails or I don't agree with them or Or i'm willing to think in the way they think i'll open myself up. Okay, tell me how you think about this You've got to let them lay it all out. It's got to You can't if you interrupt if you jump in when I had bobby kennedy on I said it was the first time in 18 years Anybody let him talk like that Everybody always push back. Everybody's felt like I have to stop you. I have to say studies would disagree I have to say what you're saying is not true I have to say no vaccines have been the most important invention and I you have to say let the guy talk let him talk Yeah, then try to figure out how he got to that spot. Yeah What what is it about the way you see things that's different than the way I see things and what do you know that I don't know And if you can't do that You're not going to have real conversations with people. You're never going to know what they really think You're always going to just be battling with them and you see that there's a lot of these talk show hosts online Well, not not even necessarily online but on television Particularly because they have such a short format you can kind of steamroll somebody and they just start the conversation and jump in and insult them and jump in and reject what they're saying and jump in and get louder and jump in and then before you know the Segment's over and someone's got a zinger or two that they've already prepared and they say that the problem with people like you Boom we'll be back It's just so limited it's a limited way of communicating we all know it's limited it's not good That's why i'm so excited about new media. I think it's a real opportunity to start to change that You know with trigonometry we're increasingly thinking about it as trigger media in terms of bringing other people We're going to start a show with winston marshall and andrew dole and me on the channel We're going to be doing more comedy and stuff like that. That's great. Yeah, keep expanding So there's a hunger for it, you know, there's a hunger for intelligent conversations with people people you agree with and disagree with And you know, that's how you find out about stuff I mean, I remember those conversations One of the things that I used to really love watching is these uh debates like uh when christopher hitchens was alive When he would uh debate religious people Yeah And sam harris as well They debate these were fascinating watching people Get their ideas shattered by a more brilliant mind. Yeah, it's like that. Those are so important and no one's doing that anymore These kind of conver they're they're just so these ideas are So controversial and toxic now some of the things that alis are so controversial That people don't even want to discuss them. They just want to walk away. It's third rail I don't want to be a part of that and let me ask you something joe about the new atheist because There's a lot of people I wrote an article my sub-site called the atheism delusion And there's a lot of people now talking about how that idea hasn't really worked out in the sense of once you take away Religion once you take away people's we talked about it earlier people need religious experiences, right? um I wonder whether part of the problems that we are facing is Is the lack of it the the criticisms that they were making were legitimate? But where we've ended up doesn't seem to me to be a good place and then you get we talked about this earlier the woke Ideology coming in it almost feels like a replacement for what we had before. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it becomes very much like religion in a lot of ways. I mean, do you remember atheism plus? No That was the thing they were trying for a little while or some factions were trying where it was atheism plus a series of like ethical and moral guidelines So it was like atheism Wasn't just atheism. It was atheism plus Like a lot of like very woke ideologies, but particularly at the time they weren't calling it woke. It was like progressive ideology They were and then i'm like, oh, okay religion. So you guys have like rules you're gonna you're gonna have It's not deities. It's a moral high ground. It's you know, it's instead of a god you have A set of ideals that can't be questioned. Yeah, you know we interviewed Dawkins a couple of months ago and one of my favorite ever conversations and you know, what a brilliant man. What a brilliant mind and We were talking with him and and I was I I said to him but people need religion richard because the reality is we're all gonna die That is a reality that is the harsh and brutal reality of human existence We are born and we shall die but the idea of death to the vast majority of people and understandably so is so terrifying that it's That it's impossible to intellectualize It's impossible to accept. So I think the vast majority of people Need religion. They just need it Well people need something something something and that's why you're seeing the ayahuasca rituals Yeah become like a replacement in a lot of ways for religion, but you know, honestly a better one Well, I know a lot of people that have gotten like some profound changes from psychedelic experiences have done correctly with the right intent in the right setting You can't deny them whether it's psilocybin or dmt or with these experiences that people have had where they've Legitimately changed as a human being. I don't think that they should be ignored No, you know, and I think that denying those from people That's not good for anybody either. It's it's not good to deny people their right to practice religion It's not good to tell people that the way they're living is wrong Live your way live your way And if if someone wants to live with religion as long as they're not imposing that on other people and that's of course Where the big problem is that's where there's laws that get put in place, you know And then you know, there's certain restrictions on certain parts of the population whether it's homosexuality or women or oh now We're dealing with problems. We're dealing with control issues. Yeah, you know and If if you say that there's no need for religion, what about all the people that benefit from it? Right seems like a lot of people get real meaning from religion. Is that how could that be a bad thing? Seems like it's only a bad thing when if they're imposing On other people they're forcing other people to give in to their will and it's like that with wokeness Like i'm like be woke if you want just don't make other people do it, you know Like people are allowed to think whatever that they're allowed to think but let me ask you something Because I think all three of us are non-believers. Is that fair? I think i'm a non-believer. No, I had a psychedelic experience in January this year I took a like I did the full thing like I I kind of hired a shaman and like I did a like a mushroom ceremony in my house and um We did we did the mushroom trip and then he the guy administered this kind this tobacco which they use in the um The native native native people use in south america as a tobacco you put up the nose What it what it is I remember when it happened when he did it the first hit I didn't get anything from it It's just felt uncomfortable. He put the second here up my nose Everything went black. I just saw these orange kind of squiggles in front of me And then I just felt myself like sinking backwards and I like I had no control over my body and I was lying back And I had I and I remember at one point I kind of thought this is what dying is This is what it means to literally die And I and I panicked halfway through and I remember sitting up and trying to sit up and whatever it was just smack me back down and one of the parts of me that I I'm not proud of is a kind of sort of depressive element to my personality and going oh, this is fucking bullshit I want to die or whatever. You know what I mean? And it kind of like you always had that negative side to you Well, you're going to experience death motherfucker, you know, you're actually going to experience what it is to die and having gone through that and and having experienced that it It made me realize I don't know why there's no way of intellectualizing it. There's no way of seeing it. But just I I know there is a god but it's so beyond our capabilities to understand what it is that it's kind of Pointless to talk about you know what I mean? I think one of the things that i've gotten out of psychedelic experiences is that there's An inescapable connection that we have with each other. Yes, and that the energy that we put out good or bad ripples and creates Positive or negative reactions all throughout Everything you experience whether you want to believe that or not. What do you want to believe you're immune to that? Well, you're doing coke and fucking stealing money from the hedge fund You're you're putting out an inescapable negative reaction And that the more good you can do and the less you can do that the better you will be in life And that it should be a practice that you should practice trying to put out the least amount of negative energy Yes, least amount of conflict The least amount of bullshit the least amount of Where you could take the high road take it Take it always there's a way to do it Find a way to communicate with people even people you don't disagree with with respect and dignity and it'll be better for everybody You both walk away feeling better Even if you don't agree with each other on something, but so many people are so invested in conflict They're so invested in that and it made me realize like that's just like a negative Trap just a feedback loop that will play out for your whole life If you don't stop it if you don't correct it inside of of your being and just Commit to no longer doing that if you don't do that you're going to constantly be involved in conflict And we know people that are constantly involved in conflict. We know people like that. There are always there's always something wrong There's always something always something chaotic with them Well what they're doing and what who's doing something to them and they're doing this to that person and it's like oh It's a waste. It's a giant waste. It's a it's a energy management problem. It's a It's a It's a soul problem. It's a direction problem. It's like you're just you're on the wrong path And you don't have to be yeah, I suppose non-believers probably the wrong term I guess what I was gonna ask you Joe is how do you think about death? Well, it's inevitable it's interesting right everyone I always say this that everyone wants to go to sleep and no one wants to die Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. You're looking to shut off as long as you know, you can come back Because you need it. We all do it um it's Whatever it is I'd just be talking out of my ass if I said I knew And that's part of the problem So it's so unknown that so many people talk out of their house and then they want to believe that the person who they agree with Is correct and so like this is what happens to you in the kingdom of heaven like bitch. How do you know? How do you know you don't know you're just guessing you might be right you have your right Imagine if you go to heaven fucking say peter's there with a big book Run the list like what? Really dudes with robes and like oh my god angels are real cherubs flying around like little babies with fucking wings like wow Okay, it's real. Would that be any weirder than earth? Would it be any weirder than human beings? Would it be weirder than twitter twitter? Being able to communicate probably a lot less way than twitter But what I mean is timing with people on the other side of the world what I mean is how do you think about? the inevitably the inevitability of your own death Something i'm thinking about and having children changes how you think about it for me at least Well, there's a certain amount of things in this world that are out of your control And if you concentrate on things that are out of your control, you're fucked. Yeah, and if you I mean that is the epitome of existential angst, right? Constantly worrying about your own demise It's going to happen and that's part of the the wildness of the puzzle of life Is that you know, it's going to happen And you have to be able to somehow accept that and also appreciate life right now because if you were dead Or imagine if you're on your deathbed And you know, this is your last gasps of air If I had something that I could give you and all of a sudden you'd be 39 again And all of a sudden you'd be doing a podcast again And all of a sudden you'd see your wife again and see your children again and see your friends again and go to the places Where all the people you love go you would be so happy you'd be so happy to be there Like oh my god another I got another shot at this And we don't often think that way no, we really should appreciate the moment as corny and fucking spiritual guru wooden beads You know as that sounds we really should appreciate the moment and It's a matter of managing your mind to the point where you could do that consistently and that's what's hard It's hard to do that. You know the I think We're kind of living together in a group now the trigger team and you know people brought on you got a cult Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's a good cult. It's a good one of the good ones That's my point yeah, that's my point yeah, but you know and uh, we're not actually living together We used to we used to but constanton's little boys there and it's so wonderful man It's just so because you're living with a person, you know, he's 14 16 months around 16 months and You're living with someone who exists purely in the moment. There's no agenda There's there's no like oh, but if I say this and I do this then maybe he might like me which means I can There's just like I remember there was one instance where I was on my phone and I was trying to sort something out I was frustrated and he totaled up to me and he had like a little plastic cup and he just went like that and gave it To me and at that moment like everything disappeared. It didn't matter that I was upset about they were frustrated Because to him all that mattered was him giving me something and saying here you go This is from me to you and it was like it was just like love like pure It was just the most beautiful thing that one single moment. He just wanted to interact with you. Yeah. Yeah, he's a cutie Yeah, cutie. Yeah, um, i'm working on on on my on the second book and there's going to be something to do with gratitude Because you nailed it man You got we this is one of the things that I think Is missing in our society is we don't appreciate what we have. Can we hold that thought? I have to pee so bad Yeah, let's hold that thought right. Can we all pee? Yeah Back yeehaw kids and we're back we're back We're back baby What the fuck are we talking about gratitude gratitude? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds again It's one of those hippie things They've they've taken over that word, you know, it's like the word god like for a lot of people the word god's like oh, come on What it you know, but what does it mean to you? It ain't no hippie thing, man. It's a real human thing Everybody needs it gratitude is positive energy. It's like Appreciating things it's so hard for people to do And again, it's like it's a mental management issue so many people haven't been given the tools to be able to do that or the Moments in life where you have to sort of cultivate that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's easier for us man because You know, we started our show in a room above a comedy club with nothing. We had less than nothing We didn't have any cameras. We didn't have any microphones. We didn't have any money. We didn't have any profile we didn't have any followers we literally had nothing and Every day now we just we we just experience it as it sounds Hippie and bullshit and whatever, but it's true. Every day is a blessing man. It really really is, you know This is I think what? Again, this is partly the the trip that I did Just made me realize man, like everything is connection like the what we all crave at its most basic is connection Yeah, that's what we that's what we all crave. We crave connection We crave to be around people to share ideas to be heard to be listened to to feel love to give love And that's why like you see social media is is the ultimate Contric in a way because it's going yeah, you're more than connected more connected than ever But you see it when you see like a couple and they're going for a day or whatever else And like they're both on their phones and they've both got their head down and you go you're not Connecting you're not having a discussion, which is why our show works and why your show works Because it's connection and that's it's it's a beautiful thing and to connect with another human being And to share to listen to share experiences And to play yeah, it's it's but it's life and I think the other thing that's cool is like people get to listen to your show And have conversations they they're kind of a part of this conversation. You get to Go back and forth with it And they don't have anybody in their life they could have that conversation with So is that they have access to these conversations that you have with these people? in Through that they get a enhanced perspective of things So maybe they're in a place where there is no one like these people that you're talking to and they get to listen and go Oh, well, maybe the way i'm looking at things It is narrow-minded or maybe the way i'm looking at things is Flavored by all the people around me and i've just sort of accepted that as my own ideas Maybe I don't agree with them. Maybe i'm more in line with the way you guys think maybe i'm more in line with the way your guest thinks and it's uh As weird as it sounds like you're enriching people's experiences as a human being through doing that. Yeah, and we enrich ourselves for us From day one man every conversation. It's a privilege to be I mean in your case even more So you've got some of the most amazing people in the world Coming in here and sitting down for three four five hours, whatever it is And you get to pick their brain and have a connection and a conversation. It's it's it's the most amazing thing It's pretty wild. Yeah, and again, totally unexpected. Just like you guys have started out with a laptop Yeah, just hanging out doing stuff on a webcam my friend brian And then it went from there and you know, the beautiful thing about this show is that you humanize people. Yes humanize people because in the world of media and celebrity That what they do is they paint two dimensional pictures of people, you know, it's joe rogan is this mike tyson is this And then you listen to the person you go. Oh, actually what i've been painted is bullshit. It's a two-dimensional representation which actually doesn't reflect One iota of who they truly are as a human being some people just accept it for what they hear But the the good thing about the negative Perspectives that people have is it forces other people to listen. It doesn't force them it Entices them to listen. Yeah, yeah Is this crazy shit, yeah, like what's going on that yeah, and then listen and go. Oh, it's a reasonable conversation. It's just Going against what's the the narrative that you have to say and the way you have to talk and that if you don't think that way you're some Extremist some far right or far too far that or fucking proud boy or whatever you are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So easy to label people like that So he's just dismiss him entirely as soon as you label him like that And I think about this a lot because you know Even our perception is like who joe rogan is or who constant enough francis is it for most people? It's it's it's a snippet of some information that they saw Different people saw different snippets So if that if you were arguing about who is francis foster Well our perspectives are going to be so different because we've got different experiences So I remember and this it was so crazy. Um, a friend of ours had a girlfriend who was very smart very interested She's kind of into the stuff that we talk about and whatever and we were at a party somewhere and she was saying Oh, you were just on joe rogan. Isn't he all right? And I was like, okay, what let's unpack that. What do you mean? Right, I you know how I can go when I disagree with somebody but I just held back And I was just like let's find out what you're talking and what it came down to is You're a masculine guy who's got muscles and tattoos That's what all right. That's what all right means That's hilarious, right I I think francis is right when you take the time to be with people then you get to see A lot more of the human being yeah, and hopefully we're doing that. Yeah, and more people should do it, too Yeah, so like try to deal with your friends, you know It's you know I love watching all these podcasts that emerge or people just starting it out and just trying it and some of them suck But I sucked too in the beginning. Oh we all did You could bring up I mean photos of us I mean particularly photos of me when we just started out on my sweet lord but I remember because i've been listening to don't skip over them and the transformation the news since we've started has been fucking amazing Inspiring to watch to be honest in every way. Yeah, it's been beautiful Yeah, and it's you know work like transformation in your mind. Do we think about things? The transformation in my mind, uh, the transformation in my body, but but also it's it's all that fat shaming It works It works for men, yeah, it was maybe not for women doesn't work on bird treasure but I will say this man it's like When I was I remember listening to one of your interviews with mike tyson where he was talking about Dmt And how it changed who he was And how there was mike tyson before the empty there was a mike tyson after the empty And he said that he looks back and he doesn't like the guy he used to be He goes that person scares me that person was wild that person was out of control I don't ever want to go back to being that person and I thought to myself How beautiful man that you get to be part of somebody's redemption arc of somebody going, you know What I wasn't a very good person. I was very damaged and for whatever reason I did things that i'm not proud of But now i'm trying to be better And if you think about it, man Imagine you you look back and you don't think that right? How have you spent your life? You're not better than you were 30 years ago Right, but no, I don't care how good you were 30 years ago. You could still be better today Mike tyson's arc is one of the most fascinating right because he was such a destroyer I mean he got all of his love and all of his attention from Smashing people like literally separating human beings from their consciousness in front of the world And he was he I mean Look, i'm a huge boxing fan and you can look at all of these, you know, the greats like the frasiers the alys You know the joe louis is all you know, all of these people But I would say that with tyson with early early tyson. He was the most Exciting fighter. Oh, yeah, you just the moment there was a fight with tyson Everyone was watching they were like executions Was it the knockouts you think that that was really the thing that was the threat of the knockouts the knockouts the the menacing Image that he presented would come in with a towel around his neck and nothing else the black shorts black shorts Smashing people just so dedicated to this one thing being the greatest heavyweight of all time And it's also as well, man, like, you know You know every boxer every fighter has got a nickname and some of them are more appropriate than others He called himself the baddest man on the planet and at his peak. He was the baddest man. He was there was no ufc back then Oh, man You know, there was no uh, no one could take him down Yeah You know you you just you don't and like I said before, you know, you took you you had an interview with him You humanized him you made him you be to me He became not mike tyson this avatar the baddest man on the planet What he did he became a human being and it also enriched me because then I was like Oh, I really want to do psychedelics because I want that that insight that he has had about himself And that process I want to go on that journey now Yeah, it's helped me. Yeah, help me tremendously. Well speaking of the ufc joe I am so gutted that we're not gonna see john jones versus frances engarnay. We might still see it. You think we will Anything can happen You never know we never know but that is that's got to be the greatest fight that hasn't happened in the ufc history, right? Yeah That's the big one. That would have been the big one But you know frances is going to have this boxing match with tyson fury. Yeah, what do you think that goes? Yeah I mean tyson fury is one of the greatest if not the greatest heavyweight of all time. He's so good He's so slick his footwork his movement the way he sets traps and catches people. He's so clever. He's so skilled He's been unstoppable as a heavyweight boxer. Francis is a big powerful knockout artist. That's undeniable. But You know the advantage obviously goes to tyson fury. It's his sport He's the best one of the best if not the best ever at his sport Yeah, he's so fucking good and he's so clever He comes in all fat and everything and makes fun of it and takes his shirt off and and still beats the shit out of everybody And he's skilled isn't he super skilled? He's skilled like a smaller man and he's enormous He's so Fleeed on his feet his footwork his movements. He's such a good boxer man. He's such a good boxer That you could You know frances has got to catch him with a big punch and he's got to be able to figure out how to do that Like how do you catch a guy who's been boxing his whole life against all the the greats in boxing? Guys are the best boxers ever That said Francis I believe if when he was a young man if he had just gotten into boxing And not into mma like if someone had found him when he was like mike tyson's age when mike tyson was 13 And trained frances like if custom on it would found frances frances is a terrifying specimen He's so big and he's so powerful He's the the greatest one punch knockout artist i've ever seen in the heavyweight division The stuff that he does the way he takes people out the way he knocked out alistair over him and kane Velasquez and all it's just like he hits you you're fucked You're but that's with little gloves, right? So you have to take into account the gloves are bigger you got to take into account It's only boxing so the the footwork and the movement is going to be different and he's fighting a master You know if he can connect who fucking knows, you know, it is the quintessential puncher's chance But you would have to if you look at the betting odds, they must be Enormously enticing fury's favorite like what are the betting odds online for this fight? Let's take a guess I mean five to one six to one seven to one something like that. Maybe more Let's take a guess. What do you think there? I mean The thing is with tyson as well is that he comes from a gypsy background and as someone who has taught gypsy kids They get taught how to box from the age of four to five It's part of their culture and their other part I remember when he got uh, he Can't remember which fight I was working at a radio station at the time and we were doing overnight So I watched I think it was the first wilder fight may have been the second Do you remember when he got knocked down everyone went to his day? And then he got back up and then when I can't believe he got back up gypsy boys are trained You never ever back down from a fight you keep going until they are done or you were done. That is it He didn't just get up. He got up and won the rest of the round He got up like the undertaker and then won the rest of the round And then it figured out that's the way to fight diante wilder to put him on his heels And then yeah came in the second fight and beat him down And then the third fight got clipped in the third fight by a punch that probably takes out 99.99 Of all the people who've ever lived and somehow or another he survives it from a guy Who's the biggest one punch knockout artist in the history of boxing? Diante wilder puts everyone to sleep. Yeah, he just shuts dude's lights off with one shot Blap, he does it to everybody everybody you see guys get hit and they're like what the fuck happened? He's such a brutal puncher and Fury survived that survived that in the first fight survived in the second fight survived in the third fight Well, this is what I was going to ask you because if it's a punches chance the question is How does ngana compare power wise to like a diante wilder? We really won't know We really won't know until we see him hit a boxer with the big gloves on We know with diante diante hits anybody they go out except tyson fury. He's the only one who's been able to survive it Because then that fight you could see with wilder walk away. He thought he was he thought fury was done Everybody's done when he hits him like that. Yeah, the luis orteez fight. You ever see that fight? No, he hit some of the right hand on the forehead Just blah and orteez is on the ground like like he got shot like he has no idea what the fuck Watch it here find that diante wilder knocks out. Uh, luis orteez and luis orteez is from the cuban olympic program luis orteez is a phenomenal boxer. I think orteez is probably ahead on the scorecards because orteez is a Great boxer probably close, but he might have been ahead on the scorecards and diante just black one shot The way he knocks people out too. It's just like They go flying it's like he's got magic in his hands. He's not the biggest guy in the world He's very tall and long But it's just the torque and the fucking the speed and power behind his shots It's like nobody in the history of the division even tyson tyson knocked guys out with a barrage of punches usually except like michael spinks And you know, I mean even larry homes he'd dropped larry before he knocked him out Diante just catches guys with one shot So they're boxing here and watch when the one punch knockout comes So he's already got him hurt. Yeah, boom boom Is that after he's dropped or was he dropped before that no, I think he gets up I think the rational thing to do there is to stay down Just the power this dude has he's just so crazy Oh Oh man nice crumples, yeah, you know the one that gives me not the second time they fought jamie I wasn't I don't think that was the right ko. Yeah, I think they fought twice I mean I typed in ko and those those were the two fights that popped Dude, whoa crazy The brazil fight crazy power. I mean his power is just that's round one of twelve I mean diante is like nobody else He his fucking power is so ridiculous And he's so long Yeah, that one was wild. Oh my god. Oh my stavirn was the first guy to ever go the distance with him I think in the first fight in the second fight. He just put his light Power is just extraordinary man. Look at that He's like, you know, so Ken france's punch like that. I don't you know, we're gonna find out I don't know, you know, I mean it's like when you look at him move and you look at tyson fury move like wow That's an uphill battle. Yeah, but what is the odds? Yeah, I was gonna go 10 to 1 joe Uh, it's I found two two different sites. It's uh, In ganos plus 7 25 7 1 yeah, you were right Yeah That's you know It probably will go up from the fight comes, you know more people start betting on tyson fury Yeah, this one has in gano just a little bit lower but Fury is the same sites I checked. Yeah 1100 But john john's man I would so love to see that fight particularly when we saw what happened with syral gahn because you look at syral gahn you go This guy moves so well for a big guy. So skilled so talented And it was It was over cakewalk. Yeah, no one else can do that to syral gahn. Here. Here it is This is the luis orteez a second fight. Okay watch this boom One shot one shot. That's the one i'm talking about. Oh my god So he catered him twice. Oh man with this this one was just one shot to the forehead On artis was like whoa daddy watch this again Right here. Oh, is this the highlight? Yeah, this is I just backed up too far It was a good fight up until this moment too here comes And he's been able to pull it from the fire with devastating shots Whoo see so yeah artis was scoring on him man. I'm telling you it was a good fight There it is oh my there it is one shot Come on son that guy punches so hard. Oh, man So can frances punch like that? We don't know You know, we really don't know until he boxes can he can deliver it? Can he deliver it on someone's chin because diante doesn't just hit that hard He delivers those shots on guys like tyson fury. Yeah, you know, he delivers those shots on everybody You know, it's a it's an uphill battle. He's a scary guy though, man. Yeah frances is a scary dude. He's big He's 265 naturally shredded What does he what he said he was walking around 275 275 ish 280 He's walking around because he doesn't have to make the ufc's weight limit. UFC's weight limit was 265 So he had to be 265 to fight in the ufc He looks like he was chiseled out of granite. He's a perfect athlete for fighting tall big long crazy power And intelligent he figures out how to get better, you know He got so much better from the first debay fight to the second. Oh, yeah There's no comparison he's a completely different guy patient calculated technical You know and the the knockout punch that he hits deep The jesinia rosenstreich knockout gives me nightmares. Yeah, that was crazy He's 290 293. Wow. So he weighs two volkanovskis He's enormous, but you know, can he deliver that power and the betting odds say no But are you a fan of the crossover fights? Yeah, i'm a fan of guys like frances making a shitload of money I'm a fan of let's see. Yeah, i'm a fan of uh craziness, you know Like if jake paul decides to fight canelo alvarez i'm gonna watch. Yeah crazy. You have to really do that That's good. That's crazy. I'm a fan of uh I'm a fan of these kind of opportunities for fighters like for a guy like uh, connor mcgregor when he fought floyd mayweather, you know What made a hundred million dollars? I'm a fan of that. Yeah, a fan of those guys being able to do something like that Will they make an extraordinary amount of money doing something like that? This isn't my argument, but it is the purest argument that The some these crossover fights are you know demeaning to the noble art of boxing? You know the boxing is It's a sport. It's an art form, you know It's it's taking away from fighters who have dedicated their whole lives to this noble art. You know what I mean that that that argument Yeah Also, it's fun. Yeah, it's yeah, but also it's fun. It's fun fun to watch that fight. It's fun It's fun. The fact that the heavyweight champion of the ufc who you know Retired as a heavyweight or left left the ufc as a champion is gonna get to box the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time with zero professional boxing fights Let's see I mean it's kind of like the connor mcgregor fight Let's see, you know and real similar in in the the talent that they're facing You know when connor mcgregor fought floyd mayweather floyd mayweather's Arguably the best boxer of all time I mean the most defensively sound boxer in the history of the sport like the guy literally has only been hit hard like three or four Times his whole career. I mean Especially when when he really became like the great floyd mayweather like he was just outboxing everybody canelo alvarez mani paki Everybody got it. Everybody got it ricky hatton. Everybody got it. He beat the fuck out of everybody He's the man floyd's the man like 50 and oh, that's the guy. I mean if you if you're gonna have an all-time great It's hard to argue That's not that guy Because he's the guy that got away from the sport with the least amount of damage the most amount of money And he's also been able to sustain himself doing these exhibition fights for crazy amounts of money where the people literally have no chance Literally have no chance and in these boxing these folks They'll fly him over to japan, you know when he had that fight over there with uh, this uh kickboxer He it's what he's doing is pretty wild And you know what? Francis and gano and tyson few are gonna do that's pretty wild too. Yeah. I mean you have to watch that right? Oh, yeah Yeah, are you happy it's happening though? Yeah, this noble art of boxing shit. Shut the fuck up It's like have that sports completely corrupt. Yeah You're absolutely right I sometimes think that the reason mayweather doesn't get his dues is because He ain't that likable as an individual. You know what I mean? I think it was also less exciting than you know A mike tyson type of thing in terms of watching as a spectator It's all both of those things are fair to say You know, but also that's also how he got people to watch he got people to watch by rooting against him Yes, you know he he you know when he first started out he was pretty boy floyd It's a different mayweather, you know, he was pretty boy floyd and then he became money mayweather And it became money mayweather That's when like more people started watching and the more shitty talked and the more he showed you his diamond crusted watches and rolls Royces and the more people wanted him to lose the more he kept winning. Yeah, he became the heel Amazing smart. Yeah, super smart in terms of marketing. I mean, come on, man It ensured a large audience of people that were tuning in just to watch him lose Yeah, well you want to you want to see if that winning streak is going to get broken, right? But you also want to see someone to beat him because it's so cocky Tired of this cocky champion Whenever there's a cocky champion people like want to see him This good knock him off his high horse. So people will tune in just to see that. Yeah, genius But it was interesting. You said you still think john jones versus francis inguina could happen It could happen. Yeah, why do you say that joe well because uh francis has his contract with the pfl Let's say he fights out his contract Let's say he fights tyson fury and then he fights out his contract and then at the end of the contract the ufc Offers him a giant chunk of money to fight john jones. So let's say if john jones fights steepay Who knows who wins that fight, right? And then? Maybe if he wins john jones fights, erge, erge pavlovich who's a very scary guy who's uh coming through the ranks There's not a lot of really tom aspinall is very promising. He's really good. He has the potential to be an all-time great you watch tom aspinall's movement for a heavyweight his diversity in his skill set leg kicks missions he's fucking super intelligent fast as fuck. He's big naturally big guy and jones wins all those and francis wins in the pfl and then leaves And then they could have another fight and that would be bonkers That would be bonkers You want to see that man? Oh, yeah Well, I want to say that I was very upset that he was leaving the ufc because I wanted to see that fight But also very happy that he's going to get this giant payday. I don't know how much money they say he's going to make Are they saying? I've seen is Because uh, sorry tyson signed that other site or a fight against uc that he's going to make over 100 million for both of those Yeah Tyson fury so wild he decided he's gonna book another fight like he's like this fight's gonna be so easy I'm gonna book another one a couple months later Wow, talk about a cocky champion, huh? Hey, man, that's the gypsy king, you know, it's this prerogative He's the fucking king 100 man. Yeah, that's that's also a fight that I really really wanted to see the fight Sports illustrates his minimum of 10 But that's you know, yeah, not sure how I could that is is that saying that it's the bigger payout than the entire Person that he's totaled from ufc Click on the link or support illustrated receive entire Entire ufc career. Whoa for tyson fury boxing. That makes sense for him. You can see you can see that Yeah, he's such you know John jones to me is such a fascinating character Because when I watch your interview with him and he talked about contrition and wanting to be a better man I'm like I believed him every second of the way and then you look at his behavior afterwards and he's still just as wild Just as crazy. You don't get a guy who's that good without him being a wild motherfucker Like john's wild he's wild inside the ring. He's wild in his belief in himself. He's a wild fella I mean that dude opened up his fight against maricio shogun whoa with a flying knee at 22 years old against a legend Catches him with a flying knee just beats the brakes off of a legend at 22 years old and wins the title. He's an extraordinary talent just extraordinarily good comes from uh Those whole family super athletes both both of his brothers playing the nfl. Mm They're both killers It's just like that guy's the man, you know and That fight against him him against francis him coming up from light heavyweight and francis being this enormous like terrifying Force at heavyweight who fucking knows what happens man. I would so love to see that fight. I hope it happens, man I really really I hope it's not one of those things where we always go Do you know what would be and boxing is really bad for this and this part is what may maybe fall out a love of boxing for a bit which is When the fight does happen, they're both past their peak. They're not the same fighters. Do you know what I mean? Eventually, I don't want it to be that I write like Manny Pacquiao Floyd yeah, to me that was one of the biggest disappointments in sport. Unfortunately Manny went into that fight injured Yeah, Manny had a torn shoulder Going up to that fight. Unfortunately, but Floyd was very clever and when he chose that fight He chose that fight after Manny got knocked out by Juan memo and marquez You know remember that one punch crazy knock out where it was really bad where freddy roach said I don't want you to do anything for a year like no fighting for a year And so you got to recover from this one. Remember that knockout. I don't actually what google won man Well marquez knocks out Manny Pacquiao because they had fought some really close fights and I think I think Manny won them. I don't know What was one a draw? I don't forget. I forget what the Previous fights were but I think this was the third fight and Manny Pacquiao Got clip right here. Watch this the perfect right hand Oh He's coming in as well. Right as he gets here. Perfect timing perfect one punch ko out cold And this was the end. I think this was the end of their trilogy. Oh, it's four. This is the fourth fight they had Oh my god. I mean that is literally the perfect punch And man, he just went out cold with one shot and did he listen to freddy roach? Did he take a year? Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Yeah, I think gave me the well Whenever a knockout like that is so bad like you have to That's a one punch completely unconscious massive concussion And that's a massive knockout. That's a rare knockout at that level You know when you're watching guys that are that good get you know There's there's some fights in the past You could see a guy gets knocked out with one punch like that tommy herons versus roberto duran. That's one like that Yeah, where tommy herons had roberto duran in trouble and then clipped him with the perfect right hand Roberto duran face plants and when you watch him roberto duran face plants like what? It's hard to believe the guy who beat sugar a letter like one of the greatest boxers of all time And tommy just catches him with a perfect right hand That's the thing with those with those guys man the power they unleash one of my uh My dad used to drink with a guy called alimenta who was a former middleweight champion the world british guy And he fought and this was in the late 70s early 80s. I think he fought he was world champion He fought haggler and he told my dad he goes you have never when he when he hit me I've never felt anything like that Haggler was a monster. Yeah, he was a destroyer. Yeah, he really was He was like one of the first really elite fighters that fought so well from both stances whether it's southpaw or orthodox He could fight you from either stance. Yeah, he could you know And he he fucked guys up like that because he switched stances and be just as good So you're looking at two different looks like the jab coming from the right hand the jab coming from the left hand You have to adjust and maybe you only stand one way and he can he can fucking switch it up anytime he wants He's unstoppable and he only got knocked down one time in his whole career and it was bullshit He got knocked down by one roll dan. It wasn't real knockout knockdown. They called it a knockdown Birdie really just got knocked off balance and they called it a knockdown He fell down like he got clubbed in the back of the head and he went down and his gloves touched the ground They called it a knockout knockdown rather and he got up. He's like what the fuck? And he went out to knock out roll down but Speaking of british guys joe, uh patty the batty versus tony ferguson. Yeah, it's good It's a good fight in terms of like, you know, tony ferguson's been on uh, An unsuccessful streak and patty the batty had that controversial fight with jared gordon It's a good fight. It's a good fight for for both guys because like, you know, patty's the guy coming up and tony is the legend And so it's a real crossroads fight and for tony It may very well be his last fight in the ufc if he loses That's that's you know fair to speculate a lot of people have been calling for him to step down to stop fighting Yeah, his last few fights haven't gone that well. Well, it was really started out with him hurting his knee Yeah, you know and then he came back after that and beat pedis Which was pretty extraordinary But then when he had that gachi fight the gachi fight was rough That was rough painful to watch as well and I love tony focus. I think the fact that cabib never happened. That was That was such a bummer. That was one of the all-time bombers when he tore his knee backstage. Just tripping on a wire just fucking some Unforseen accident guy gets through entire training camp. No problems trips on a fucking wire and rips his knee crazy needs surgery Just nuts But in terms of patty, do you think you bet on the young guy coming up? Oh, who knows man? Tony still has a lot in the tank. He looked good. You know in his last fight against uh, It's against bobby green. Bobby green is just so fast such a good striker. So unorthodox You know, I think tony still has something left, you know Whether he's got enough to beat a guy like that. That's what makes it exciting because it's a good challenge for patty It's a good fight for tony in terms of you know Where he stands because you know patty hasn't fought like the elite of the elite that division yet, you know the camarot's the You know the these guys that are You know challenging soon for a world title because there's a few of these guys out there that are just like Super high level guys and patty is like, you know, he's making his way up towards those guys and this is a big step Well fizzy if that will happen against gamora was so disappointing such a bummer man because fizzy is so good He's such a good striker That's that that was one of the most impressive just engage performances that he outstruck fizzive You know that was that was a really impressive performance and then the dust the dust employee fight was incredible Yeah The fact that happened in salt lake city and it's a mirror image of the leon edwards kamara usman knockout in salt lake city Crazy head kick knockouts in the world title That leon edwards fight was so crazy. I almost turned it off towards the end because I was like, this is over, you know Yeah, the greatest call in the history of sports john anak says that is not the cloth from which he is cut and then boom He lands that head kick because they were talking about him like phoning it in from now You know, you're just just trying to survive and accepting his defeat John anak says that and then he lands a perfect head kick right afterwards. It was bananas He doesn't really get the credit that he deserves leon. Oh leon edwards. Yeah. No leon edwards I think he's getting it now. I think the kamara usman rematch just showed, you know that kamara You know was very cautious about engaging It was like a different fight than the first fight also his takedown defense is on point is getting way better grappling which showed in the first Kamara usman fight because he took kamara down which is crazy. Nobody saw that coming and mounted him. Everybody's like, whoa This is crazy. This is the first round of this fight John's good, man He's so technical his striking is so smooth like him hitting the pads He's like one of the most impressive guys i've ever seen hit the pads His flow like between elbows punches and kicks. It's just everything is perfect technique snap pop pop snap pop Stop stop stop stop It's beautiful to watch and you add that with takedown defense and and experience and now the confidence that comes at being a champion He's fucking good How much does that change things because I think in a lot of things confidence and the knowledge that you've achieved something changes everything Well, they're all very skillful at that level and everybody has a strong mind at that level, but it's you know, like Being a champion is there's a the aura that comes from the champions that you have to overcome Like when people fought kabib, they weren't just fighting the champion They weren't just fighting kabib namukam head off and his skills They were fighting this fucking force that they knew they were going to face that nobody else has been able to know He's been able to do anything to him except glace and t-bow. That was a very close fight But other than that like he's steamrolling everybody He's fucking everybody up and you know it and you know it and you're you're facing this guy He's undefeated and he just seems to be getting better with every fight. There's there's an aura Of those guys that you have to overcome as well as beating them You have to overcome this aura and everybody thinks you have no chance You're going into this fucking battleground with this guy who's like the most feared warrior in your division Guy's been able to dominate the division Like see you have to overcome that and leon is now becoming that he's become, you know When he beat camaro the second time everybody's like oh boy Okay, and then if he can beat colby covet That's a big one that's an exciting fight that's a big one That's a big one because colby puts that fucking pressure on you He's got an empty. I mean an endless gas tank endless. He's like an energizer bunny. It just doesn't stop cardio So good is wrestling so good. He's just constant and he just stays in your face. He just drains you he just drains people Camaro's been the only guy that's been able to figure that out There's some people have gotten all about them That it's undeniable and whatever sport it is at the moment they step onto the field or into the ring There's just something about them that is undeniable. Yeah, and you just go I don't know even if you don't know who the person is you imagine you're immediately drawn to them Yeah, well that's also one of the things that's exciting About the sport is that there there are those people that just get to this spot Where they just rise above to the point where like, you know, like you can't wait to watch like volkanovsky Can't wait to watch him perform again like damn. He's he's on it right now Yeah, that guy's on it, you know anderson silver when he's in his prime is like that John jones when he's the light heavyweight champion was like that, you know, it's like damn This guy's on it like he's in that zone where like the greatness lies You know, it's not just being the best in the world, but Handily defeating anybody who dares challenge him Yeah When we had done hardy on we asked him what it was like to go into the fight against george and pia And I think he said something like he kind of I don't remember exactly what he said But he kind of hinted that you know, you're aware of the fact that this guy's you know at that level. Yeah. Yeah It's crazy sport man, it's the most primal I love it I love talking about the need for wild people. That's the only way you get a sport like that. Yeah Yeah, wild people man Well, you know, I think in some ways the rise of the ufc obviously, you know, dana wyatt and his team have done a great job And it's a fascinating sport But I think partly it's like as the culture gets pussified people are crying out for something wild like that and they want to watch that Yeah, you know in a world that's getting softer and less resilient as we talked about earlier You want to see that shit? Yeah, there's that that's why people like fights and hockey people Like watching rugby and football. Yeah, they still like a little chaos some some aggressive energy Yeah, they're like men being men. They're like men going to war. It's why like, you know When you watch the new zealand rugby team, they're all blacks. They do the hacker before they play it's the war dance So it's scary. Yeah So awesome. Yeah, I love it. It's so awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder you know what this means for our Our society You know like the fact that these two things are happening at the same time that there is this this Blowback where people do still want to watch wild crazy things. They still want to hear wild crazy things and then there's this push towards a neutering of masculine energy and the term toxic male energy and You know this idea that anything masculine is inherently negative And it's so crazy man. It's so dangerous because if you're telling young boys, oh, yeah that they are inherently evil and wrong and dangerous Then you're essentially alienating a very dangerous section of society number one And number two somebody's going to step in and go hey, you know what they think you're bad, right? So why don't we? Yeah, do some fucking damage and jordan jordan coming along was a healthy version of a response, right saying to men be responsible Take accountability go and create things go and be the strongest man at your father's funeral that that was healthy Now we're also getting a lot of the less healthy Responses as well in terms of you know people who are becoming big in that space. I feel well you're always going to get People, you know people don't feel represented. Yeah. Yeah, that's When when when you're saying that everything that they like and everything that they are is just negative no matter what They don't feel represented when someone comes along and challenges that even if that person is a grifter you you latch on to that Because when you make certain arguments beyond the pale and those arguments have merit and value And but you're not allowed to say those arguments anymore It gives them an appeal It gives them an appeal number one and number two you are going to get someone from outside the mainstream coming along and going Yeah, they're talking nonsense to you. And here's the truth And it is true and that's magnetic. I wonder what's going to happen with this You know this clearly when you see what's going on with canada with the podcast thing Trying to get people to register their podcasts. I think there's a crazy fine too for violating it Was it I think that fine might be something crazy like 250 thousand dollars or something like that It's like a very high fine. See what the fine is for violating the rules But when you you get stuff like that When you It's I I wonder What's gonna prevail? What is gonna prevail is free discourse and free speech gonna prevail or are we gonna go full combi? Are we gonna go full censorship? Because if we do if we cross a line where you really can silence people you cross if we cross a line We can use dirty tricks and tactics to eliminate anybody that doesn't think the way you think and whether it's through censoring them on social media Or you know where their intelligence agencies step in and tell you to remove posts because they you know They go against the narrative that the the government is trying to push like that is fucking scary Well, I think the thing you didn't hit the nail on the head frances earlier when you were talking about how they're changing the concept of safety That's what we have to push back against because there's this idea if you hear opinions You don't like of people are talking in a way that you don't like That makes you unsafe right and we have to say that is fucking bullshit. Yeah, that's fucking bullshit We have to say that yeah, and that's that's to me because all they do is they redefine the word and then they Weaponize it against you. Yeah, they say the words are violence and of course you're against violence, right? Right. Yeah, balance is bad. No one knows sporting violence Yeah, but here's the thing you can only make the argument the words are violence if you've never been punched in the face Right, right a lot of people have And a lot of people could benefit from that. Well, my fear is that a real war breaks out That's my fear. My fear is that we are beating the drums of a real war A real war involving superpowers and a real war involving involving technology beyond our comprehension Including hypersonic missiles they can change direction in air and you can't track them You don't know where they're going, you know, you can't do anything to shoot them out of the sky They're just moving too fast. Yeah, and they hit cities boom And then we're fucked You know and then you're I mean, I don't even know if it helps to have masculine men then I don't know if it What helps if you can get to a port where you can? Debilitate a company a country's infrastructure kill their power grid You know remove them from the internet remove their ability to communicate with each other. That's not that I mean that's totally believable. That's not an impossible scenario Where precise strikes even if they just decided not to kill everybody They just decided to destroy the power grid and destroy the infrastructure and kill the internet and kill the pipelines I mean look what they did with the Nord Stream pipeline, right? Look at what if they decide to do that with all kinds of gas and oil pipelines? What if they decide to do that and you know shut down? Power plants and shut I mean and do so in a way that we're left powerless. We have nothing What are we going to do? I'm gonna rise up against who? Like they literally starve you out like it'll shut down the infrastructure of the country How would the country work if there's no power? You know, I mean how long do we have if if ever the whole the country if the the whole grid gets wiped out Let's just imagine an attack. Even it's just some sort of a Very complicated cyber attack that wipes out the whole grid How long can we survive with no power? You know, it's the grid's very vulnerable. Texas almost lost its grid here because it got too cold We came that close Take them that close because we're independent from the rest of the country in terms of the grid. Uh-huh. If the texas grid It was like they were very close to like losing everything. Yeah, it's like how many people die then it's fucking freezing cold No one has a fireplace anymore. Yeah, how many they don't even let you build a house with like a real wood fireplace in a lot of places I know in california you can't so If it's cold you're fucked like you're gonna freeze to death People were freezing to death like that can happen the power goes out and you fucking freeze to death That's a reality of life in 2023, you know, and it's also as well, you know, we've all become Deskilled as a population. Oh, yeah, you know, we're so you know, we're we're we're so dependent on this technology Like think if you went time traveling, right and you went back a thousand years and people go to you What's going on and you'd be like we've got all this amazing stuff. We do this. Oh, yeah. How does it work? I'd be like, I don't know. I just switch it on and it works right? Yeah, I just did a podcast If you left me alone in an island with all the books that have ever been written for a million years I'd never figure out how to make the internet, right? Yeah, you know, yeah, who what you can do what 5g What does that mean satellites? What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, I have to fly a metal piece High enough in the sky that it's weightless And it just spins around the earth What? And we all take this stuff for granted as well. We're all like, oh, yeah, this is just normal This is entirely normal and this is just our society and this is how what I was born into And this is always going to be this way. It's like well We're victims of our own success, right? Because we've built these amazing things and they're good things to have right having a power grid is good But we've got to also be smart and one of the things we're finally starting to realize at least in the uk Where we went super crazy on this net zero stuff is you have to produce your own energy You have to have control of that. Otherwise, where are you buying it from? Who are you buying it from and what are they going to do to use the fact that you're buying the energy from them against you? Yeah, and it's there's so many problems There's so many problems with just the way human beings acquire minerals that need to go into cell phones This is the the cobalt problem like the fact that everybody's phone has this Element in it that comes from people literally digging it out of the ground and mines that are working in like the most horrible conditions imaginable and that this has been documented And lithium too, yep lithium too I mean a lot of the lithium that actually we need is in eastern Ukraine One of the reasons that that shit is going on. I think it was going to be the second biggest producer of lithium in the world After china you sound like a conspiracy theorist I need to just tune in to CNBC and shut your brain off. Yeah, man But yeah, the net zero stuff actually scares me because it's it's well climate change is kind of a cult in and of itself Yeah, you know because that's also a thing where people aren't willing to listen at all to people with opposing viewpoints And then if you do you are now a climate denier Just like how if you were kind of like hey, what's going on with these mrna vaccines? Oh, you're anti-vax like oh what? What happened there? How did you sneak that in like what are you saying? like if you are curious about whether or not all this stuff that you're offering up as a solution is actually Willing is that actually going to be effective if everybody stops eating meat? How much does that change and what are you gonna do about china and india and then their output and what? How much co2 is actually in the atmosphere and how much do you need in the atmosphere? Isn't there a certain amount you need? What percentage are we above what we used to be it turns out it's like It's like 0.04 is what we are now and we used to be 0.03 And at 0.02 plant life starts to die Because not enough carbon dioxide It's like what percentage of of that is human beings. That's a good question and What percentage of it is the rest of the world and what percentage of it are we going to save by ruining? Everything here in the western world right well So in the uk we have this obsession about net zero and i'm like, okay, let's get our emissions down to zero Let's say britain produces no carbon emissions at all and the ones that we outsource abroad. That's two percent of global carbon emissions You just fucked our country to make no difference whatsoever to the problem with the big the big Polluter or the big contributor to the biggest by far is china and india. Yeah, they're the two biggest And if they're gonna keep doing it Which they are seems like what we need to do I mean, this sounds very simple from a moron like myself, but it's in value danger in china. They need to figure out technologies to Clean the air and that doesn't seem impossible. In fact, there was there was some talk of a giant Skyscraper that acted as an air air filter and that they were going to install remember those jamie Yeah, see if you can find that there's talk of construction. It might have been in china They were going to build these essentially Skyscrapers that were really just giant air filters and that instead of a skyscraper that it housed, you know Office buildings or people it actually housed equipment that just sucked pollution out of the air and filtered it and you're like Maybe that would maybe that's it. Maybe that would work. Maybe you could actually capture There it is the skyscraper sized air purifiers the world's tallest Wow So what if they just had those on every block or had those, you know Every you know X amount of blocks where they figured out a way to clean the air Okay, it can reduce pollution in a major metropolitan areas by 20% for example if if we can Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I like to tell my students. We don't need to be medical doctors to save lives Dr. David Pooley professor of mechanical engineering the University of Minnesota and one of the One of the researchers so they could just reduce air pollution by 20% for example, we could save tens of thousands of lives a year Okay Yeah So this seems like it's about air pollution but your point about China in India Joe's so right because I was talking to an Indian dude And he told me the time of partition. This is 1947 when India became independent average life expectancy in India Jamie fact-check me if you could please but I think it was 37 years Right fast forward to today. It's over 80 You think those people are gonna give up burning shit to live longer? You think they're gonna do that because I don't think they will I don't think the Chinese are gonna stop making stuff and producing stuff And burning stuff. Well, I think the people have a say over there in China. That's true Yeah, particularly but it's a big part of it, right? Like there's not gonna be some movement against the government Plan yeah to reach net zero missions by 2060 the report estimates China needs between US 14 to 17 trillion in addition to investments for green infrastructure and technology and the power and transport sectors alone It seems like quite a lot of money to me. Yeah Yeah, okay So says jijingping said since September 2020 when China's president jijingping made the pledge to reach net zero by 2060 the country's ministers and locales have been mobilized devised Decarbonization roadmaps for their jurisdictions. Maybe they can do that. Maybe they can I mean, maybe there's technologies that either haven't been implemented or just theoretical Where they can figure out a way to clean it up without destroying their economy, you know, and that might be possible I don't know but it's certain that human beings are having an effect I mean like specifically with pollution and not just that not just the air We certainly should be looking at carbon dioxide and sure certainly should be looking at humans impact We all should be looking at what the fuck we're doing in the ocean. Yeah, we're killing the ocean We're filling it up with garbage and literally killing most of the species We were just talking about the other day that there's they don't really know what the real numbers are But they think it's estimated that we've killed somewhere in the neighborhood of like 80 to 90 percent of the fish Yeah, I what? just scoop and fish out and killing everything and and giant fucking country sized Floating garbage islands, you know, like what? In the island of the Pacific garbage patch is bigger than Texas Texas is bigger than multiple European countries And that patch of garbage is bigger than that Yeah You know the thing that I find really really Demoralizing about this debate is that the fact that the complete lack of critical thinking skills people on the left therefore they think this People on the right they think this I know I'm not gonna mention this person's name They came on your pod and they were like, well, I think you know It doesn't exist climate change and that person thought that way I think a lot of it is because they're on the right, you know So they see the way the tribe moves they move with the tribe instead of actually taking every issue Looking at it themselves doing the reading doing the work and then going well, this is what I think regardless of this tribal that tribe Yeah. Yeah you if you're on the left you think climate change is imperative. You're on the right. You're probably more dismissive of it You know Certainly, we should really look at nuclear power Yeah, yeah power seems to be the cleanest way to do this and it's safe in relative. It's safe It's I always make this joke Well, you say that but actually if you look at the casualties from nuclear disasters There's only been three major ones right the Long Island three Mile Island to noble and Fukushima if you look at the stats and you add it all up it nuclear energy is safer than Hydro there's one damn collapse in China killed way more people than all the nuclear disasters put together Yeah, the real issue though is it ruins that area forever? So like no one's moving in a Chernobyl sure. No, no, no, Fukushima is fucked Yeah, that's fucked like when when they do go south they go bad It's to the point where a friend of mine who's this brilliant guy says he won't eat fish from the Pacific anymore And I said why and he said Fukushima goes I don't think they're they're testing for it I don't think they're testing for radiation poisoning. I don't think I don't think they've measured it He goes he goes what if you know, what if it's a lot worse than we think it is and we find this out 10 15 years from now he goes maybe I'm wrong. He goes. I just don't want to take a chance So I don't eat fish from the Pacific. I'm like My out of that is a fair point. Yeah, I don't know if it is I mean, is that ridiculous? I mean how much of an impact does Fukushima have on the entire mass of the Pacific Ocean? No, I mean your fair point about you can't live in that area for a very very very very very long time Yeah, that's a fair point. Yeah, I mean hundreds of thousands of years Yeah, those areas are ruined Yeah But the thing is they can mitigate that now and they could figure out a way to have nuclear power plants with better Feel-safe than they had in Fukushima Fukushima They had like a backup and that got crushed too And then they're fucked because they can't shut it off and then you know You have this reactor that you can't shut down and it's just chaos I mean Chernobyl they had to work really hard to make that thing blow up It was like incompetence and all sorts of other dynamics going on there. It was pretty fucked up. What's wild now? There's things living there. It's like who knows what kind of crazy mutations Godzilla type shit is going on there. Do you know there's a there's an animal sanctuary Area in the red forest and it's one of the safest areas for wildlife in the world because there's no humans there Wow, but has anybody measured the effects of radiation on those animals I mean some of them are getting affected obviously, but they're not getting shot by humans is the right What are you developing like telepathy? You know in comic books radiation always leads to awesome things that's a yeah spider-man exactly You know, that's how you become the Hulk or yeah X-men. Yeah, maybe that's China. Maybe that's Russia's Maybe that's the next stage of the war Oh, yeah, all the problems in comic books like with radiation It's all like someone becomes a superhero now. They have these powers and yeah, well, I guess I have to save the world Yeah, maybe that's what we need to solve our problems is to spy the squirrel from Chernobyl Joe, yeah, maybe we need aliens Maybe that's what we need. Maybe they need to come down and go settle the fuck down Yeah, this is maybe we just need beings who are just way smarter than us just to go You are a bunch of incompetent chimps shut up and I will deal with it What do you think about all this UAP stuff when you see this? I mean, I don't like that they change it from UFO to UAP That's annoying because I know what you're doing just coming up with new clever ways to make it less Ridiculous to the world, but like what do you think about all this disclosure stuff? The thing that makes me skeptical is UFO sightings are so disproportionately in North America You guys love a conspiracy Yeah, and it's never in New York either, you know what I mean, there's a few yeah, yeah it happens in New York Yeah, there's been sight but also people like it's like that's a problem. You know, it's like the amount of like really good footage is This the compelling stuff is the stuff the fighter jets capture that's compelling like the tic-tac footage That's compelling You know when they talk about the the amount of g-force that would be involved in something moving in that way like most things that we have would just fall apart like this what is moving that quickly is The is the all of the sensors of all those accurate or all those detection Systems and all the radar and tracking is all that accurate Because if it is accurate like what the fuck can move that quick like explain that what is that and if that's ours like Like if they've managed to hide some sort of super sophisticated propulsion system That's beyond our comprehension like beyond Nothing you could imagine and that they've been working on this for decades and that that's what all this UFO talk there You mean the government? Yeah. Yeah, there's some black ops program some special top secret shit where they're in the middle of the desert they figure out a propulsion system that Works on gravity, but could they keep that secret for that long? That's the thing man You know you because it's it's it's easy to go down this route and go the government are keeping things secret Of course the government doing of course their cover-ups, but if there's one thing I can know from the British government It's just that they can never cover anything up. You know what I mean for that incompetent Yeah, right, but that's the legislators and the Senate and the Congress What about the fucking people that are involved in the highest levels of the military? I bet they keep a lot of good secrets I bet they're real good at it especially people that are working with defense contractors like if they really did receive a crashed UFO and they were back engineering it it would Be a national security imperative for us to get that first Yeah There's some craft that came here from Alpha Centauri and they've managed to get a hold of it And they're trying to figure out how that thing works you better shut the fuck up until we figure this out And I think that would be like if you're a patriot and you were working for the government you would you would keep your fucking Mouth shut that was your job also They're what they're looking at every email you send every text message you send they probably got your house bugged if you talk about it They're gonna know yeah, you know I think it's possible to keep secrets as much as people want to think that it's not But I don't know. I don't know what the fuck is going on and I'm part of me is like They're talking about it too much. You know part of me is like show me something Show me something like I don't want to go all this talk like even David Grush He never saw anything he just uncovered programs that he found who knows who gave him that information Who I mean if I wanted to fucking put out some disinformation. I would encourage someone to be a whistleblower That's what I would do. I would tell him some nonsense and encourage them to tell everybody else and then it discredits the whole thing Makes the whole thing like preposterous or it also can cover up this other thing that you have going on you say Oh, these are off-world crafts can't be ours Meanwhile, it is ours like one of the things that's happening. That's weird is they're always in these areas where the military operates like off the coast of the East Coast where They've seen those things is it like a cube inside of circles that what it is It's either a cube inside a circle or a circle inside a cube But they keep seeing these things that can hover at 120 knots completely still move off faster than the eye can see and This is something that Ryan Graves experienced. He didn't experienced it. He experienced it on a sensors They upgraded their sensors and I think it was 2014 and almost immediately They started spotting these things that just violated everything that they knew about like the way objects could move and behave What do you make of this argument? I can't remember who's made it but it's the idea that if we were to encounter an alien species if they reached here They would be so technologically advanced that they could do whatever the fuck they wanted basically maybe or maybe there's like levels like we are at Right. Maybe there's like if we are going to eventually travel to other planets and establish a civilization other planets or visit other planets How long is that when's that gonna be is that a hundred years from now? Is it 50? Maybe that's where they are. Maybe there's some that are a thousand years more advanced Maybe there's some that are millions of years. Maybe some of them live in a solar system That's much more stable and it doesn't have the problem that we have with asteroids Maybe there's you know less collisions in there So they're allowed to reach this technological level of sophistication that's evolving over Millions of years and they're like gods there. They're we can't even Fathom the kind of technology they have available. Well, we would imagine that if we keep going we're gonna hit that But it is maybe as well. They don't have the capacity for self-destruction that the human being does, right? Maybe they've engineered that out. Maybe that's part of the feminization of males Maybe that's part of the and for real that's maybe that's part of all this like gender chaos. Maybe That's part of the micro plastics that are endocrine disruptors that are fucked and pesticides and all sorts of other things that are fucking with people's reproductive systems maybe it's like a natural gradual change that the species must take in order to evolve to the next stage that it has to like sacrifice its lust and anger and fury and all these chimpanzee instincts that are really associated with dominant male hormones and Primate behavior that we see in the jungle Can we operate as a as a as a species without those I would argue that we can't Takes over up and Evelyn over Lord, it'll make people eat credit cards every day So the body will develop more micro plastics and shrink your testes. Yeah, I don't know, you know, I wonder I wonder what's happening You know, I think it's happening very quickly and it's hard because we're in the storm. We're in the middle of storm Washington But if you look at the amount of change that's taken place in human culture just over the past 20 30 years It's kind of unprecedented since the the emergence of the internet. There's been never been anything like this Yeah, it feels like we're living in a culture which has hit the fast-forward button Mm-hmm and is out of control like we're on the roller coaster ride We used to be going like this click click click click click click click click click. Now we're going like this. Yeah And you know, I don't know where it goes and I think part of it is that the we've got to fix the outrage machine That we've got which is corporate media Social media the way we communicate about things about ideas. Yeah, this is why I have hope for new media It's we don't always get things right, of course But it's an opportunity to change the conversation to have more of this to have more long-form stuff to pursue the truth Whereas right now the incentives and Francis said it early and so phrase I repeat all the time human beings respond to incentives and right now Being outraged and being outrageous is what's rewarded and being calm being sensible being reasonable Listening to other people that isn't the thing that we've been doing for the last 20 30 years We've been doing the opposite of that and I think we have to find a way to change the incentive structure of the internet whereby We're not incentivized to be our worst selves We've got to do that if we don't do that We're gonna destroy ourselves long before any fucking aliens get here man And that's my worry man to go back to your metaphor about the roller coaster We are on the world, but I'm gonna be honest you might I'm looking down. I'm not is there a track No There's never we've never experienced this before right as far as we know the human race has never experienced anything like this before This connectedness Strange, but every informational revolution. I mean people have always talked about this example of the printing press, right? Right, you have solely the church that controls all information Most people are literate and then you get the printing press and you start spreading information to more people and there's more perspectives And then you get two centuries of religious warfare That's what I say your books about witches yeah You know that was one of the first things that people did when they started using the printing press you think oh They're writing all these great books about philosophy and psychology. Nope. Nope. How to spot a witch. Yeah It's something that we can all get behind man and in it current is our worst instincts It'll be like you know what all the problems in the society. It's their fault. Yeah There's a lot of wind chutting going on right now. Yeah, there's a lot of which I mean JK Rowling is a witch Like how did that happen? You know what I mean? Like she was this most progressive Lefty person says one thing about trans boom. She's a Nazi. Yeah, how did that happen? You know the Wild West out there and everyone just fucking went along with it like the mainstream media went along with it Controversial author what you know, I know Hitler never went, you know, I'm gonna take over the world I'm gonna write some beloved children's book Yeah, it's someone violating the orthodoxy yeah, yeah, you know and There was part of me who thought okay now she's come out. We're gonna have a modicum of sanity That's what I genuinely thought when I was naive and more stupid Look, we should say we are actually making progress in the UK on that issue. We really are yeah on the transition We're making progress We shut down the clinic and the rules and laws are starting to change and we're starting to be sensible So maybe the great hope is we kind of overreached and now we're raining it back in a little bit It's not the case here from what I can tell doesn't seem to be the case here at all No, I mean it's coming straight from the White House. Yeah Yeah, yeah, that's terrifying man. That's you know It's so interesting right now that our show has become bigger and people recognize us. I get a lot of especially Gay people coming up to me to talk to me to thank me to thank me and ask for what we do This this young lady came up to me. She was like she was American She must be in her like sort of mid to late 20s and she was like, you know If I was born 10 years younger and you know, she's a gay woman She goes I would have been screaming the house down at my parents. I would have been demanding a double mastectomy I would have been demanding puberty blockers because I was so miserable and Distressed and deeply unhappy at the fact that I was a gay girl. Yeah Yeah That's a lot of the way a lot of gay people feel about this whole movement that in some ways It's kind of homophobic because it's saying you're not gay. You're just in the wrong body Yeah, and so many of them are autistic as well This is what we are not taking into account quite often is And we've had lots of people on the show to talk about this a lot of these kids are autistic a lot of these people Particularly the girls they would have had anorexia or bulimia before before that they would have had something else It's just a way of people showing distress about what it's like to be a young woman It's not exactly a great, you know a great time to be a young woman when it comes to body image when it comes to the perception and the reality of how Men and women relate in our society and all of that right and a lot of the young men They're what's happening is they're being praised for this choice You know, there's there's social credit to being, you know identifying in a different way Yeah, yeah, and it's it's it's really sad man. It's because it affects everything I was doing a gig a few weeks ago and there was a comic on the bill an older gay guy and Like, you know the classic look over the shoulder both ways and he sat down and started talking to me And this is a guy whose partners experienced the AIDS pandemic. So a lot of his friends die His partner was basically given a flat near to the hospital because at that stage of the in the 80s and the 90s It was like look you've got this virus You're gonna die So have a have a flat near to the hospital where you can get treatment and then when you die at least you'll be comfortable And he looked to me and he was talking about everything that was going on going to Pride marches He was like, it's a really bad time to be gay. He went I went to Manchester Pride and This woman got up on stage and she Brought her six-year-old daughter with her held her up to the crowd and went this is my daughter She's a little gay girl and the entire crowd cheered and he and he went I was just there going you're sexualizing your daughter What are you doing? Right? You're seeing your six-year-old attracted to women Yeah, yeah, and then and then people are cheering and going this is great and he's like, no, it's not You know Brett said something to me when I had my son. He said congratulations. Your heart is now outside of your body. Oh and That is to me the great hope on some of these issues is like people's love for their children is such a powerful force and It can be a force for good, too And we've seen a lot of feminists stand up on this stuff in the UK and a lot of parents as well because you know What it's like and you're a father of girls, right? Like this you it's it's now many people's one of their greatest nightmares about what could happen to their children, you know so that if your children get indoctrinated into something like this and make some change to their life that is permanent and that People are encouraging them to do that a pre preteen. Yeah, you know, it's it's crazy And it's something that we've always known that children don't have the ability to see the future Yeah, you don't like that's why you don't allow them to get tattooed. That's why you know It's like but with this they're like no no no they know And it's and the fact that it's become so party political here is I think why you're not making as much progress in America On this issue because it's like you're on the right you're against you're on the left you're for Why don't we just look at what is medically correct? What is good? What is bad? What damages people what helps people? Let's take some fucking time. No people don't even want to look at the side effects of some of these Medications are giving kids because it's too painful job, but they're sterilizing. They are ruining their bodies Permanently it reduces their life expectancy I mean Chloe call and there's lots of other detransitioners you listen to their testimony And the scary thing is the detransitioners get attacked Yeah, they talk about their own personal experiences and the regret of transitioning and they get attacked Yeah, because you know, they're somehow got internalized transphobia now and it's it you I just I really hope That we just wake up from this that we wake up from this and that's the thing that's great about the UK Is that we do have left-wing politicians like Rosie Duffield who have come out and spoken about this? Honestly, and she is a hero. She's an absolute hero because she has been called all manner of names by her own party She's been attacked yet. She has stood firm. What a hero. Well, I hope people wake up here, too Yeah, well, how do you think that happens? I guess just talking about it I guess the discussion moving from being orthodoxy that you can't question to people seeing detransitioners seeing problems with that we know with children being malleable and easily influenced and seeing people that might just be a feminine man that might be gay and you're turning them into a woman and forcing them to get castrated and Oh Yeah, this idea that you know, you're not a man if you don't like, you know You know climbing trees and cutting down logs and all of this nonsense. It's just so backwards. I thought we'd overcome that I thought you could be a feminine guy who loved writing poetry and was more Sensitive and that was great. And that's just another type of man used to be Maybe we'll be again. Maybe it will be again. Yeah. Oh, listen guys. It's always beautiful to talk to you Yeah, I appreciate you guys brother. It's great to be back. Thank you. Yeah, it's lovely man. Your show's awesome It's very good saying it keeps getting better trigonometry. You can it's on YouTube get you guys get dinged on YouTube at all Um, I don't think we do at the moment now we get you know, occasional episode demonetized, but we're kind of used to this But you know, no, we're loving it. We've got as I said, we've got new shows coming with different people We're gonna expand and grow beautiful and spread this message. Yeah All right. Well, thank you for being here.