Why the Lyme Disease Vaccine Was Pulled | Joe Rogan & Peter Hotez

clinical trials. Yeah. Just in clinical trials? That's right. That's right. Now, wasn't there a Lyme disease vaccine, but the problem was it was actually causing people to get Lyme disease? So that's a – to talk about controversial topics. Yeah. So that – so there was a Lyme disease vaccine that was developed actually from a colleague of mine at Yale University, and then it was – and they licensed it – I think it was to GlaxoSmithKline. And they developed it as – they called it Lyme-Rex. It was the Lyme disease vaccine. And actually, most of the studies suggest that actually worked pretty well. The problem was there were a number of people who felt that the vaccine made them worse or they said they had chronic Lyme disease, that it wasn't effective. So it was really a market perception problem more than anything else. And ultimately, it hurt the bottom line of the company, and they withdrew it from the market. A good friend of mine's dad got the vaccine and then got Lyme disease. They think he got Lyme disease from the vaccine. Probably not. Probably is a weird word for someone with Lyme disease. Well, if that's being nice. No. They got it from a vaccine. No, he didn't get Lyme disease from a vaccine. No way? Impossible? Impossible, because Lyme disease is caused by the Lyme bacteria, the spirochete called Borrelia burgdorferi. And the vaccine is not a live vaccine. It's a recombinant protein-based vaccine. So it's not possible. So there's nothing in that vaccine that could have caused this adverse reaction that they directly attribute to that vaccine? Probably not. That's what – Again, you're saying probably – Well, I don't know the patient. I don't even have an exam in the – They swear. I mean, that's the narrative of that household. Well, again, it's reinforced by a lot of negative information out there on the internet. Yeah, but it's also reinforced by the fact they pulled the vaccine. Yeah. Well, they pulled the vaccine not because it wasn't working, but because of market perception and all that sort of – and that was a time before the number of cases of Lyme disease have really taken off. That seems strange to me because they didn't pull the measles, mumps, and rheumatoid vaccine because of perception. Why would they pull the Lyme disease vaccine because of perception? I think the reason was because the cost-benefit equation works a little differently. With measles, measles is a killer disease. Lyme disease was not a killer disease. But God damn it, it's wrecking people now. In some cases. It seems to be connected to a host of other ailments too, correct? Chronic Lyme disease exacerbates a bunch of different maybe possibly even existing health issues. Well, you have to be careful. This gets into another controversial rabbit hole. I'm not sure we want to get into it or not today. The Infectious Disease Society of America, for instance, has come out with a strong statement saying that there's really no such thing as chronic Lyme disease. The scientific evidence does not support something called chronic Lyme disease, yet there are lots of people suffering with chronic debilitating illness who claim that it's caused by Lyme disease. Yes. So this is something that is out there right now. Why is there a debate? Why are they saying that there is no such thing as chronic Lyme disease? What's their evidence? The evidence is that there's no evidence that they can detect spirochetes in the body. In many cases, people who have had Lyme disease don't have persistent evidence of having antibodies any longer to the Lyme spirochete. So it's a whole different area. Right, but they do have this chronic inflammation and pain in their joints and their body starts breaking down. They have something, but it doesn't seem to be. The Infectious Disease Society of America, which is one of the lead infectious disease bodies in our country, and I'm not an expert on Lyme disease, so I'm not too comfortable going there with you, are saying that there's no evidence that that's actually associated with active infection with Lyme disease. How are they describing it? How are they... So another one, so what's causing all of these symptoms? Unknown. Unknown. Unknown. Hmm. But isn't it bizarre that these same people got Lyme disease first and then had these host of issues afterwards? Well, I guess part of the problem is in some cases they had Lyme disease first. In some cases, they really didn't have Lyme disease. Unfortunately, there are a number of unscrupulous healthcare providers and even physicians out there that are making the misdiagnosis, either they're making a misdiagnosis of Lyme disease or in some cases they're actually taking everyone who comes through the door and diagnosing them with Lyme disease. Unknown. I'm sure you're aware of the Lone Star tick. Right. And the allergy to red meat. Yeah, right. That's really fascinating, isn't it? Yeah.