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The J.Rogan experience. What do you think about this new trend that you're seeing? You saw it particularly coming out of John Donahue and Dean Lister with the leg locks. Leg locks are so big in Jiu-Jitsu competition now. When we learned Jiu-Jitsu and still today, we would not learn anything related to legs until we got our blue belt. The main reason behind these were to be able to let you develop guard without concern anything. Just learn how to move your hips in sweeps and hooks. Foot lock is something very effective. But if I show you right away, I might be stopping some of the evolution of your game or the other person that you train with that he can learn, which will make even better his foot lock. Right. You can hold back until people get up one year or two into Jiu-Jitsu to learn leg locks. But today we have the no-gi. Everybody's in a hurry. There are a lot of no-gi schools. The first thing people want to learn, hey, I want to learn heel hook. And Jiu-Jitsu with gi, I want to learn umber. The no-gi wants to go straight to the leg. The gi people want to go straight to the arm. But I think particularly because of the success of these leg lockers against high-level competition. No, it's effective. It's amazing. I think it's a portion of the game. And you will see the development of people that will have defending that, which also will force guys to pass also beyond the legs only. But definitely they work. It's a very dangerous. Let people wrap their legs around your leg, hook you there. I mean, not everybody can get out of that. And if you don't tap, you're going to get your knee ripped apart. For sure. And that's the real problem with leg locks is that so many guys wind up with pretty devastating knee injuries. In the 80s, the decision not to have heel hooks in Jiu-Jitsu was for safety. We do. We did practice. But the competition does not allow. You got to understand that in the 80s, if you have a knee problem, your career is over. Right. And you have a surgery that really would fix it correctly. Today is different. Yeah. You understand it's the evolution of the medical side make possible for you to put a brand new knee over there. Yeah, but still to this day, meniscus tears and cartilage tears. Those are still huge. I mean, without stem cells, it's very, very difficult to fix those unless you get meniscus. Like I had part of my meniscus removed on my left knee. And then you see them in, you want to train for longevity. And you got to understand too is I think some of those things should be kind of almost creating a pro league into the Jiu-Jitsu world. Because a lot of people, they get hurt before even they learn what Jiu-Jitsu is. That's why my only concern is the danger of all those heel hooks, leg locks. Because if you get somebody who knows, he might tap or he might roll to the right side. And you know, a lot of guys still get hurt. But if you hold somebody who doesn't have much experience in one of those traps, it's for sure injury. They roll the wrong way and rip it apart themselves. Even if you don't squeeze, it's because they don't know what to do. And that's my view of as an instructor today on my school, you're not ready for legs yet. Oh, I go to the no-guit, don't go to the no-guit tournament yet. You have to learn first, you understand, for your own safety. And also I want them to develop guard. Because when we get tired, we pull guard. When you get tired, you lie down to sleep. You don't sleep standing. You sleep when you lie down and Jiu-Jitsu is the same thing. You get tired, you're going to pull guard. And that's one of the ways I see some of my students in the tournament. They get tired. He's a top guy. Suddenly he starts pulling guard. He's tired. He's already, and that's why you have to have a good guard. Just to survive and rest to be able to continue. Were you surprised though that this no-guit leg lock games are taking off the way it did? I think because of the success, we have so many guys doing extremely well. And some of the guys that come from the no-guit originally doing so well, now some of the guys that come from the gi world doing no-guit, they've been finding some challenges. So just to that leg. I think in a way, you have two ways that simplify. Because if you get somebody in a foot lock, a leg lock, there we go. And at the same time, you complicate because you see a lot of scramble now and a lot of injuries. Because every day I understand people don't want to tap. Then it's a position that something's going to get hurt. Is that development and evolution of the grappling world? And I think it's amazing. Sooner or later somebody's going to find ways to protect better and better and better and better. They will force people to move on. Well, you've seen that I think now with a lot of the leg lock guys against each other, they're kind of stalemate. And you've seen them winning by rear naked choke or armbar again. They're not using the leg locks against each other. Right. And I was like, man, he knows as much as I do. Now I need more than that. Yeah. They're using them to sweep or they're using them to set up other things. They're trying to exploit other holes. Like maybe they concentrate too much on leg locks. So then they're open to armbars or chokes. I remember when I learned in the beginning, we have foot lock as the last resource. Let's see, I'm fighting the guy and I'm not able to submit him. I'm going to foot lock him. That's how we used to have in the 80s. Yeah, like a Hail Mary. Foot lock is okay. This is my deadly weapon. If everything that I do is not working, I'm going to foot lock him. Today is the opposite. My first shot is foot lock him all the way. It's not working. I'm going to choke him. Yeah. You see so few foot locks in MMA. It's interesting, right? You see like so few figure four foot locks. Because the danger also for you to get hit. Right. Yeah. When you do the foot lock, your face, your arms are both around the leg. You can get not defending yourself. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.