Tim Pool Details Controversial Twitter Bannings to Joe Rogan

Yeah, long story right yeah, I definitely drank too much coffee before we get here So if I appear like cracked out, I swear to God I'm not in pills But uh glad to hear it, but um so we had a nice conversation on the phone about deplatforming and social media and What it was very obvious to me in talking to you was that you're way more schooled on this than I am So that's why I wanted to have this conversation with you right? Yeah part of what was like I've re-listened to my podcast with Jack and You had a good criticism of it. I agree with a lot of what you said first of all I agree that it was kind of boring yeah, and it was I think in many for many reasons. It was my fault I Don't think I prepared enough for it And I also don't think I understood the magnitude of how other people felt about deplatforming on Twitter and in all social media YouTube and all these different things and what the ramifications are and how How much this means to people to have very clear and obvious obvious free speech? outside of very egregious examples of like threats and doxxing and Which I think we can all agree right I think this problem might be one of the like one of the worst problems We're facing right now politically. Yes You know the Twitter is where public discourse is happening It's where journalists are and this is a problem sourcing a lot of their stories Yes, so if you have somebody who's completely removed from public discourse that that's exile you know I can't I can imagine why some people kind of lose their minds and that happens and I think going into that conversation with him. Well. That's what I wanted it to be that's why I don't really interview people I mean I kind of have conversations with them. Yeah occasionally we have Disagreements and we you know we talk about things and you know But it's not I don't have Like a mandate my only come the only thing I wanted to get out of the conversation is I wanted to find out what it Was like to start that organization and to have no idea when you were doing it that it was going to be essentially like one of the most important distribution at Avenues for information An act as buddy an activist buddy of mine asked me if I knew why people smash Windows smash Starbucks It's not because they think they're gonna cause damage It's because they want to strike a symbol down of something they view oppresses them Jack Dorsey is that symbol to a lot of people and you know to see here? You know what I was saying earlier is I think a lot of people look at you You're like a real dude You know your your conversations are real you have you're not one of these fake news journalists that people are very critical of that feel They're they're biased of an agenda So when you sit down with Jack Dorsey and doesn't go anywhere people then feel like the last person who's not supposed to let us down Let us down you know I mean yeah, no I look at you twice as much I felt it and I noticed that I got you know more hate for that one than probably anything that I've ever done and You know I'm not a guy who shies away from criticism I try to figure out what I did wrong and try to regroup and figure out how to approach it again and in Jack's defense You know I think he's very open to talking about anything and also he's also very open for self criticism I mean he was openly discussing what they're doing wrong where they need to be clear where they need to get better I don't believe any of it. You know I don't trust that guy not at all um you know why don't you trust him I? Mean first of all there's the obvious thing that is running these a bunch of companies I could be wrong, but I believe he actually left Twitter He wasn't the CEO for a while they brought him back in or something, but it either sounds like we check on that Yeah, yeah, you know I try to avoid asserting things that I'm not 100% sure on but me too But I do it all the time anyway right right uh Jack says things like he said to you he said to Congress. I believe he said to Congress um We don't ban people based on the content. We ban people based on their conduct. Yeah, okay You literally have a terms of service that banned specific content like what do you mean? You don't maybe based on content. There's a I'll just get into naming some people right Megan Murphy for example is a feminine Megan Murphy She okay. She's that woman that with the whole issue with men aren't women right right so so here This is what's important. She was responding to somebody explain that freak so this could be yeah Yeah, cuz we talked about it yesterday with Sam Harris, but um so I don't know too much about Megan Murphy But she's a feminist. She's a what they call a trans exclusionary radical feminist But I think that that might be offensive says let's remember why Jack Dorsey was fired as Twitter CEO He was fired okay. We'll see what it says. This is in fortune 2008 yeah, that was there wasn't even it was her Twitter. Yeah, yeah 2008 Jesus Christ Dorsey's management was so problematic Twitter's board fire This is an opinion piece fired him in 2008 offering him a passive chairman role and silent board seat 2010 he was founding square square. He went rogue Okay, so something happened. You know it's funny as you called it an opinion piece, but do they Know that's that's where we're at in journalism today Well when someone said well it has to be an opinion piece when someone says was so problematic right mean that's an opinion I mean the real facts are he was fired You know you could state the specific reason that was stated by the company and that would be a non opinion piece But as soon as you flavor it it's all opinion right it is right Yeah, that is a that is an issue right with information the distribution of information. It's flavored by opinion and ideology all of it Yeah, all of it well. We can talk about that. Yeah, I don't want to derail that Okay, so Megan Murphy, please explain it. She was a Feminist she said she's a so she's called her a trans exclusionary look I understand this is offensive you know I guess calling someone a trans exclusionary radical feminist. I'm assuming why isn't why is a offensive It's just used in a defensive way. I suppose to her offensive against against people like her yeah, so there's Intersectional feminists right they tend to be trans inclusive meaning that they believe that Someone who's born biologically biologically male Can compete with those by like biologically female if they transition if they take hormones and things like that can compete compete right like power lifting Oh racing bikes biking and stuff. That's where I step in yeah Yeah, I've seen some of the stuff you've talked about the trans exclusionary group think they shouldn't and they've said things that are considered to be Part I say considered to be offensive. I'm not trying to assert who's offended by it, but There's one recent story where a trans exclusion radical feminists said that the trans rights movement is a men's rights movement right they say Yes, yeah in the case of Megan Murphy. She responded to someone she said men aren't women though That's not harassment right that was a conversation with somebody else well. It's also a fact. She was permanently banned well That's crazy right saying men aren't women okay out of context just say it right there men aren't women Who the fuck's gonna argue with that well, then when you say trans people okay now You're into gray area, but actually but the statement men aren't women I Mean well you don't have to take it in context right right right But this is where we start getting into the the nitty-gritty of I guess left-wing ideologies the culture war Yeah, if you go on Wikipedia, and you look up man It will tell you a man is an adult human male right But if you look up trans man it will say a trans man is a man and so the trans section of Wikipedia is at odds factually with the man section So there isn't I bring this up is that when it comes to Twitter then we can clearly see the bias hmm Twitter says you can't Misdgender someone and that presumably that's why Megan Murphy was banned Okay, that's a left-wing ideology right, but that's nice is she was she talking about a specific human I think she was I think they were having a conversation about somebody I don't know the full details details But I gotta say look right now people are being banned or suspended for saying learn to code okay? That's yeah, what is that about you explain that to me too, and I saw a few people getting but should we start one at? A time should we yeah, let's stick with Megan well I mean I think we've we've we've reached that the point of Megan right she was banned for having a conversation and saying men aren't women Though that was the quote men aren't women though right so and they're saying that they would never ban someone for Content they banned them for behavior right so if you lose that behavior I have no idea like listen if you are using Twitter the way Twitter was designed to engage and respond to people is That bad conduct it can't be conduct it literally can't be conduct well Not only that aren't you allowed to have opinions that are in fact based in biology? Yes, you should be and I shouldn't I know before we go any further before you get called alt right you very you're very left Right um I you know I typically say center left center left like oh god people were saying how many times someone commented? How many times will Tim mention he's a social liberal like I'm center left I was a big fan of Bernie. You know Bernie Sanders. He's still one of my favorite politicians People then call me a socialist you know conservatives call me left left calls me right whatever you know these labels are so fucking toxic It's so confusing to people and it causes so much so much division Between two sides it might not even differ that much you know the funny thing about it is I got my start during Occupy Wall Street and Conservatives called me far left because I was reporting on the protests what they were doing police brutality right the arrests They said this is a far-left activist Now that I'm I've always been critical of the more extreme factions like I've got interviews from Seven you know six seven years ago where I'm critical of these people now all of a sudden They're accusing me of being alt right for being critical of extremists and masks You know starting fires and things like we're all right adjacent. That's my new favorite. Yeah bootlicker alt right adjacent Oh bootlicker bootlicker. That's that's you know there's a lot of phrases that people use that mean literally nothing bootlicking One of my favorites is to keep in the context of Twitter They say freedom of speech freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence That literally doesn't mean anything it literally means nothing yeah well, that's just trying to skirt around freedom of speech That's what that is so what ends up happening But it but you agree with that like you should be able to speak your mind But you there's certain consequences of certain things that you say If I throw this bottle at the wall there's a consequence So that's if I go motion motion if I drink this water there's a consequence I'll go to the bathroom right so to sit to point out that actions have consequence is not actually addressing any of the issues It's just literally saying nothing, but it's it's it's almost It's just like you can predict when someone will say it, and it's usually when a Specific person is banned. They'll say freedom of speech freedom of consequence all that stuff mm-hmm They don't say it when it's their people they say you know course yeah But this is true too in talking about Twitter censorship There are people on the left who have been banned unjustly and this is where it gets actually scarier in my opinion You'll have I could name so many people Jess Jesse Kelly was banned for no reason CJ Pearson was bad I think why you say no reason what no they have no recourse. I was an accident oops They said it was an accident yeah, and for life or banned he was he was short amount of time No, I so I could be wrong my understanding is Jesse Kelly who's a conservative had his account just banned And there was a huge stink in the media like whoa whoa this guy didn't do anything who is Jesse Kellogg's a conservative guy You know he he posts snarky tweets. He doesn't harass people or anything is a verified Twitter user So much of stories came up saying what is this Twitter then reinstates and said it was a it was a mistake Now is it possible that they're just dealing with blunt tools and that there was a mistake or well yeah Absolutely absolutely um but then I'd have to the reason why I don't think it was a mistake very simply is for one We can see the ideological bent to their rules, but then you look at someone like Milo Yiannopoulos Like I'm not a fan of Milo I have to make sure like everybody knows that but just because I'm Critical of the actions taken against him doesn't mean I support him But why was he banned because he tweeted at Leslie Jones? Right and the idea was that his tweet caused his fans to attack her which I think is that's a stretch That's that's that's just that's just ridiculous. He didn't say go get her he didn't know he didn't say attacker He was just tweeting at her yeah, and you know what did he call her ugly? Did he say something like this he was insulting her I think he called her ugly he was he was mocking this Feminist version of Ghostbusters right that's what he was doing he was talking it was like a critique of the movie Look I've had Milo on the podcast way back in the day. I had him on twice. I enjoy talking to him. He's hilarious He's very smart. He's very witty. He's a character. He's very much a provocateur, right, but he's also You know he's pushing buttons on purpose like he's trying to get reactions from people and yeah rolling Yeah, I mean I almost think like he married a black guy just to let people know he's not gay Let people know whether he's not racist. It's my hilarious and I wouldn't I wouldn't ever say something like that I wouldn't say that either, but I almost think it you know you can understand why Milo would do that He's calculated right right yeah, but I don't listen did that I don't think he did that it should be clear But I mean that's how much of an act a lot of what's going, but if you talk to him off-camera He's a very nice guy very reasonable very polite I Don't I don't trust them. I'm not I'm not a big fan. You know he fat-shamed a dude at the gym Right literally is a picture of my making photo of a guy at the gym Yeah, and I actually argued with him about it one point I was like you wanted to do like you won your skinny He's fat But no you could you literally shamed him to the point where he decided to go to the gym to better himself You're still making fun of him, so did he wait a minute. He shamed him before the guy went to the gym No, I mean I don't mean literally I mean like Milo's rhetoric of shaming people and getting them you know saying they're nasty and stuff and then it Right, but I doubt the guy listened to him, and that's why I went to the gym. No no no I didn't mean literally right you know I just mean like if Milo plays it up like I'm gonna shame people until they don't work Out why would you but but I'll say this look that's fine Milo can can say the nasty things and be the kind of person he is right he shouldn't have been banned from Twitter That's ridiculous. Why was his verification badge removed? That was another it's it's plain as well the verification one was weird It's like we're gonna keep you here, but we're gonna take away the verification lets people know you're you right So it opens the door to fraud right and right it opens the door to fake Milo's and you don't know who's who because there's no blue check mark that doesn't necessarily make any sense