The Dangers of Reintroducing Wolves to Colorado

Wolves are dominant, intelligent, calculating predators. Yeah. That they eradicated from the West for a reason. Yeah. Yeah, man. So I think you hit on a bunch of things that would like bring me back to my opinion on it. And that's that a lot of this stuff when you, when, so I know they, they've basically described two different areas in Colorado where they're going to put the two or the two first sets of transplants. And one of them is like right in where you're not, I mean, I rode that country with a horse like all over the place in the circle of where they're going to put those wolves is right there. So I know where they're going to put those, you know, one of the spots. I know the spot intimately. I know the wildlife there intimately. How many wolves are they going to put in? So my understanding is off the bat, the first year, and I, and I, I believe their goal is by December of this year. It's going to be like between 15 and 30, I believe is the first bunch and they're going to have them in two different, two different spots. But in that, you're in that veil, veil, quarter, corridor, you know, up to the flat tops in there, you know, so they're probably going to put 15 to 20 wolves in there. The thing that you hit on Joe, that I think kind of forms my opinion is, I mean, these areas, when you go in them and they seem so wild, right? Like, you know, I could, the flat tops, I could get on a horse and I could ride for 15, 15 hours and not see a road, you know, 10 hours and not see a road. And they seem so wild, even to me being there. But I don't think that people realize how much, how much humans have already affected that landscape and how it doesn't matter, like the, this myth that putting wolves back in the land, that landscape is going to turn it back to some ecosystem that was here, you know, 300 years ago. I think it's, I think it's a figment of their imagination, man. And the reason I say that is because I've also spent a fair amount of time in British Columbia that seemed so much more wild to me. And let me kind of like give you context of why that is. You know, you've, have you ever been to Vail? Colorado. Colorado? No. Okay. Oh, I have, but not, not outside. Okay. So like, if you look at, if you look at the dynamic of that area, there's a huge highway that goes from highway 70 that goes from Denver on the front range up, you know, past all the ski resorts into Vail, into Eagle. And then it kind of goes down through a big, the Canyon Glenwood Canyon and then kicks back into Aspen. The all the winter range there is split by this massive highway. And then that highway has a, an eight foot game fence along the whole, whole thing. And then, you know, along that Vail Valley where they're wanting to put, put these, or where they are going to put these wolves, you know, there's, you know, 50,000 full time residents and you know, there's probably double that in the high season, ski season stuff. Plus you got these huge ski resorts. I guess what I'm getting at is when somebody tells me that the low hanging fruit to kind of rewild that areas is wolves. It's just bullshit. You know what I mean? How is it getting past though? Well it got passed by a ballot initiative, you know, that the ballot initiative is how wolves got, you know, got to the situation they are now. And basically what the ballot initiative did is it forced the CPW to take on this goal of transplanting the wolves. So it wasn't the CPW's choice and they, you know, there's a, I don't know the exact laws, Joe, but the CPW and that's the Colorado's park, the Colorado parks and wildlife, they're in charge of managing the wildlife in Colorado. How can they put something like the transplanting of wolves, a very complex biological problem? I mean, it's, you're dealing with biology and wildlife. How can they put that as a ballot initiative? How can they put that in the hands of people other than wildlife conservation experts, wildlife biologists? Well, I mean the reality is our laws allow that, you know what I mean? It doesn't make rational sense. No. You know? But it's a decision that for people that are just like, yeah, that'd be amazing. Let's put the wolves out there. People are going to lose their dogs. Like you're going to, your dogs are going to get eaten. It's going to affect anyone who has livestock. You're going to have a problem. Whether that problem's in three years or in five years, those problems are coming. Dogs are 100% going to get eaten. If you have a cute golden retriever like mine, you leave them outside, like guess what? That dog's dead. They're going to team up on that dog and tear it apart. And if you're cool with going outside and seeing wolves eat your dog, like, well, then you've made the right choice. But if you're not, like, if you don't think they're going to go after low hanging fruit, you don't think they're going to go after easy prey. You don't understand wolves. Talk to people that live in Alaska. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, anybody who lives in like British Columbia, like they have real fucking wolf problems up there. And these are wolf problems that we used to have in the West, but they eradicated them. I mean, I don't think it's good to eradicate them. I'm not saying that what they did was right when they poisoned horses and left dead horses filled with strychnine and, you know, and the wolves all died off. But they did it for a fucking reason. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing that's so crazy about, you know, back to the process of how it happened. Everybody who wants wolves in Colorado, and we can get into, you know, the depth they want them because that's not really clear. You know, they just went through this whole, you know, setting up the plan for the CPW. And it became very clear in my mind, watching that process, that they don't really want there to be any, you know, management of wolves in Colorado either. It's going to be... Ever. No, yeah. So basically... Well, that's crazy. Yeah. And so that, I think, you know, anybody rational is going to be like, look, like we got to have like a top to the population. You know... There's no management at all? Well, so here's the deal. Is they're not... They have a draft plan, you know, for to manage the wolves. What happened is when the CPW did that draft plan, it included some discussion of wolves being lethally managed at all different stages. You know what I mean, Joe? Like even now, if they, you know, a real problem with livestock, you know, could they be lethally managed? But down the road, once they had hit certain population objectives, could they be hunted? Right? Like that was discussed. Well, it turns out the ballot initiative basically says that wolves are a non-game species, and that was in the language of the ballot initiative. So they can't really... They can't really now say... The CPW can't really say that they're going to someday be a hunted species in Colorado. I personally think... And you know, everything's like 2020 hindsight, but even when the ballot initiative originally, you know, was out there, and I always thought it was going to pass by a landslide. That's what's so crazy because it just barely passed. But I always thought like the problem with Colorado is it's different than these other Western states, you know, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, because they're going to keep the population in line through hunting or other, you know, other methods. But in Colorado, I don't think the politics are allowed that man. I think it's just going to be like, who knows what the top is on, you know, how many there is, how much they affect the ungulate population, you know, who knows, you know? But what I was going to say is what's crazy about this ballot initiative and the bummer part about it is everybody that's going to deal with the negative consequences, their people that voted no in... But they're in the areas where the wolves are going to be transplanted. Everybody that voted for it, they don't have to deal with the down side. They're living in Boulder. Yeah. Dude, and I'm like you, man, they're cool. Like I've been around them in Canada. They're way cool. But the problem is, is every person that I've interacted with in British Columbia, you know, or even in the Western states that have a fair amount of wolves, every person is just trying to make a living on the landscape. You know, he's a guide, an outfitter, a logger, a cattle ranch or whatever. Like he's out there living, he or she's out there living with them and dealing with them. They're all just like, when you ask about wolves, they're like, it's just like, you know what I mean? Because they got to deal with the negative consequences all the time. They're a totally different kind of animal than any other animal because they act as a pack and they have some sort of intelligent communication. They're bad ass, man. They're amazing. They're cunning and crafty and they're efficient, ruthless killers. And they also surplus kill. They find them, I think it was Wyoming recently where they found just like fucking giant pile of elk that they had trapped in high snow and just tore to pieces. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know like the stats on how common it is, but you know, other predators do that too. Cats do that. Yeah. But the difference between them is that they act as a group. Yeah, yeah. They're the only one of those predators that acts as a large group. Yeah. No, and they're effective. I mean, they're effective. I mean, even when you talk to... I know Guy in British Columbia that's... I mean, his whole world is focused on trapping them. And I've sat and talked to him just about like the details, you know, like boiling his snares, you know, how he goes in and puts his snares in, you know, how he goes in and checks them, like all that matter. Boiling the snares to leave no scent. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because they just pick up on that stuff, you know, they're just so smart. And they know that they're being fucked with too. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, which it's funny because the first thing you said is they're a dog. And that... I mean, you have dogs, you know how it is, like they can't figure it out. Yeah, they know things. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I talk to my dog, like he understands certain things. Right. I'm like, come on, dude, let's go outside. Yeah. And it just starts going towards the door. Yeah, oh yeah, he knows what's up. He knows what that means. Yeah, for sure. I don't have to say it like, want to go outside? Yeah, yeah. Do you want to go outside? I could just say, hey, come on, man, let's go outside. Yeah. He's like, oh yeah, let's go outside. Yeah. Are you hungry? And he's like, fuck, I'm hungry. I'm like, okay, let's eat. Like he knows what that means. Yeah, oh yeah. He knows some aspects of language. Sure. And, you know, what he is is like a really tame, docile version of a wolf. Yeah. Have you ever been around a Belgian Malinois? Yeah, I don't think I'm through. Those are the dogs they use in war and police dogs. Okay. And they are fucking scary little meat missiles. I gotcha. And they look at you like this. Yeah. They're always thinking, and you can't just keep one of those motherfuckers in your yard. They're too smart. They're working dogs. First of all, they climb fences like a chimpanzee where they just go right up the fence and over it. I mean, have you ever seen videos of Belgian Malinois working? I don't think I have, Joe. Dude. I'm trying to put... It's wild. They can do shit where they leap through the air. Like you can't fucking believe they really can jump that high. Right. Like soaring through the air. I'm talking like 12 feet in the air. They run, jump off a guy's back, and then leap through the air. Like climb over walls that are like 10 feet tall just by running up the wall. Yeah. It's insane. It's pretty wild. That's a wolf. Yeah. That's a Belgian Malinois wolf. Oh, yeah. I've seen a man. Look at this. I mean, that's insane. It is nuts. How's that dog doing that? Look at him running up the fucking wall. He's basically a monkey. Got it figured out. Look, he's running up a fucking tree to get to a mitt, and then he's hanging on it. It's crazy. Man, you know what? The diversity amongst dogs is wild. It is wild. These dogs in particular are bred, and look how smart they are. Look, you can walk across a tightrope. Look at that. And then insane. I mean, that's fucking insane. They're so intelligent, but that's closer to a wolf. Way closer to a wolf. Look at his ears. They're basically an athlete wolf. Have you ever seen these great Pyrenees dogs that they run with the sheep? Yes. Yeah. They're cool in a much different way. They basically think they're sheep. Yeah. You know? Pull up a great Pyrenees dogs. They're interesting. It's so wild that they all came from wolves, and that you have so many different styles of the way they look. These dogs... So there's big, big domestic sheep permits where I used to outfit. So guys running big bands of sheep periodically in the wilderness areas, and they keep these dogs with them. These dogs are something else to run into in the night up in the mountains or whatever. They just protect those sheep. You see these big bands of sheep like this. Do they keep wolves off of them? Yeah. So I've heard mixed things. This will be interesting, because right where they're going to put some of these wolves in Colorado, there's some pretty big domestic sheep guys that run these Pyrenees dogs. Oh, Jesus Christ. So sheep in the wilderness are one of the few animals that are still guarded by humans. They usually have a herder with them. Yeah. And a lot of them are guys from... Nowadays, it seems to be that most of them are from Peru, I believe. And I used to run into the guys, because they've been out there living with these sheep for weeks at a time. So even though there's a language barrier, when they see you up there, they want to hang out, say hi or whatever. Just happy to see people. Yeah. They'll have a horse with them. Probably 500, 600 sheep, and they'll have a couple of those dogs. Wow. But back to your original question, I've heard mixed things about these dogs' ability to deal with wolves. And it has to do with the fact that there's a group of wolves. So if they can draw one of these dogs off, wolves can kill them.