Psychedelics Helped Rashad Evans With Retirement Transition | Joe Rogan

You know, towards the end of my career, like I just didn't, I didn't finish the way I wanted to, you know, and I felt like, you know, after I came back from my injuries, I just wasn't the same for a fighter anymore. Were you not the same physically or was it mentally? It was physical, but it also, it became mental because it was, because physically I just didn't feel the same, you know, I didn't feel like I ever regained the power back in my legs and for the most part, my legs were everything, you know. What were the injuries? I had two ACL surgeries on my, on my right knee and that completely just, uh, it changed everything for me because, you know, being a smaller, light heavyweight, all of my power was all in my legs, you know, and whatever I couldn't make up for in the size department up top, I was usually able to make up for with the power of my legs, you know. Is that related to the injury that you got when you were at Jackson's and Diego Sanchez crashed into you? No, that was, so that was a different injury. So that was a MCL, but it wasn't my left knee. So the right knee was the one who got, you know, it always drove me crazy because I'm like, why the fuck is a guy training for a world title fight in a regular class where everybody knows people collide into people with regular classes all the time with millions of dollars on the line? I know. I see that all the time though in top gyms. But that, see that, see that's, that's, that's where the training has gone. Like, like before we would train like maniacs, we would train crazy as hell and put ourselves in some crazy situations and you, and you try to put yourself in a situation because you like, you know, I did it before and I've done it so many times and nothing has happened. But when you start to move up and there's more on the line, then you always have to take every single precaution because you can't afford to take a step back. And for me, once I had my knee injuries though, I just mentally was not the same person. And when I competed, I wasn't the same person. And then it affected me because then I'm like, you know, I'm not the same person. Did you lose the ability to explode with your knees? Did you have meniscus damage as well? I had meniscus damage. I lost the ability to explode and I lost, it would get tired. My leg would get tired, you know, and it didn't have the same bounce, the same rhythm. And it kind of felt, it kind of felt heavy and I couldn't really feel it in the front, you know, the front part of my knee. I couldn't really feel it. I had a little. Did you have a patella tendon graft? I had a patella tendon graft. So they cut the front open and then they take the piece of the bone, they take a slice of the patella tendon and a piece of the bone on the bottom and they replace your ACL with that? Correct. Yeah, I did that too. It takes a long time to get that feeling back. It took me more than a year before it felt right. And then even then, if I was on my knees, it would hurt like hell. See, that's the thing. Like I still, to this day, I still have dead spots where I can't feel on my knee. Well, it's numb. Yeah, it's numb. And I think I had to do it a lot because I had two of the knee surgeries back to back, like when I was only healing up from my first one, then it ruptured again. So then I had to go back in and get it done, you know, the first time it was with the cadaver. And then the cadaver tissue didn't take, but I didn't know that until like almost a year later. And then it slipped out just training normally. Fuck. Yeah, so. ACLs are brutal. Oh my gosh, it was, it's the worst, man. It's the worst. And I admire guys who can come back and look phenomenal and do it, you know, still because when you mess up your knee, you know, for me, it just kind of mentally just, it messed me up a bit. How much physical rehab did you have to do for that? Man, I did a lot. I did years worth of it. Just, you know, the first time I didn't do it as well as I could have because I'm like, ah, you know, I bounced by pretty easy. And I did like, I felt like I was bouncing back pretty easy. But when it went the second time, then it was harder because not only was I healing from the ACL, but then my knee was healing in general just from, you know, the previous surgery and then plus this surgery. And then I had something different because in a first surgery, it wasn't, it wasn't too invasive because I wasn't using my own, my own tissue. That cadaver one is nice. It's easy. Right. It's easy if it works. If your body takes it. How long did it take before it blew out again? Man, I was almost a year, I was training for another fight thinking I could get back in shape and fight again. And then when I was training for that fight, it blew out again. Yeah, I'll schedule the fight in Gustenson and then AJ end up taking that fight instead. But it was, it was, it was one that that just, you know, it was like, first of all, when I was out for two years healing from injury, you know, I got to see what it was like to win when all the cameras stop flashing, when people stop caring to get your pictures, when, you know, that whole feeling, the whole feeling that just that happens when you meet that, when you, when you hit that transitional point and stop becoming that guy. And it was difficult transition at first because, you know, even though I always told myself, I'll never, you know, put myself in a mindset of being just that fighter sooner or later you become just that fighter. And that's what happened to me. So when I had to, uh, meaning that you weren't the best. Well, not, not just the best, you weren't an elite, right? I just wasn't elite world class fighter. Like I used to be, I wasn't on that level anymore. You know, and that, that was something for me that was just like, God damn, you know, your use of your legs was so pivotal. It was so, so huge for you. Like when that, in that rampage fight, I remember that opening sequence when you just darted after him and blast him with the right hand. It was so fast. Like he didn't even know what the fuck was happening. As soon as the bell rang, you were on him and you cracked him quick. And I was like, that is some serious explosion. And that, and that was even in that fight. I could even wrestle like the last four weeks of that fight because I had a, uh, I pulled my hamstring in a fight. So I was just really just drilling up until that fight for the last four weeks. So, and when I came out like that, I was like, I was a little insecure and I was like, you know what? I'm just going to see what happened if I go and then it worked. I was like, okay, I still got some spring. But it worked perfect. Yeah. So, um, yeah. So, so when I, when I was into my career and just kind of getting, you know, kind of trying to figure out like what, what's next for me, you know, um, it was hard, you know, it was just a hard place because, um, you know, I really have anybody to talk to. I didn't really know what I was going to do next in my life, you know? And then when I started fighting again, I still was in that place where I just wasn't, you know, totally back to fighting my mentality because fighting is something mentally that it takes. It takes a certain mentality for, you know, and for me, fighting was something that I did to exercise some demons a bit, you know, but, but having some time away from the sport, it allowed me to figure out other ways to exercise. So demons, demons and, you know, figure out some things around them, you know, the things that made me mad, the things that were my fuel before I kind of made peace with them and then making peace with a lot of the things that I was using for my fuel. It just changed the way I fought and the way I seen fighting. So coming back to fight, I just wasn't that same fighter anymore. And then when I got to the point where I was like, man, I can't keep myself like, I was like, man, I'm not fighting the way I want to fight. And, you know, there's, I mean, what's the point that if I can't go and compete the way I want to, I'm only torture myself. So then I decided to retire. But then when I retired, I was still was in a space where I was like, man, it's still something missing. So then when I did the five MEO DMT, that kind of put things in perspective in a whole different way, you know, and it just, it changed me. It changed me a lot. It changed the way that, you know, like I said, the way I think, the way I eat everything, everything about it, you know, so it was, it was so cathartic and so many, so many sense of the word, you know. Do you think that something like that would be really beneficial for fighters that are in the twilight of their career? I think, I think it could be. I think, I think every fighter gets to a point where you fight enough, then fighting it kind of, it kind of, you kind of get in a weird space about it. And, you know, I've seen fighters go through that period where they just kind of like, figuring out that, why am I still doing this? You know, they've had great moments inside the cage, but then they have those down moments and those down moments are the moments where it's harder to come back from. And I think those are the times where you, you know, a psychedelic or something like that could put things in perspective and, and allow the fighter to see the why behind the reason they're doing it and maybe create a new why. Yeah, you're so different. It's funny. You know, I've noticed that about you over the last few years of just, I don't get to see you that often. And when I get to see you over the last few years, I'm like, wow, something has changed in Rashad. Like you're, you're more, I mean, I hate to use the word spiritual, but you seem like a more spiritual, more peaceful guy. I had noticed that. So that's why I was really interested to have this conversation, see what your journey was. Yeah, it's been, it's been one hell of a journey, man. You know, um,