Professor Gary Laderman's Issues with Tenure System

How long you been teaching this for? This class? Yeah. It's another one that's post tenure, but it's probably been about seven or eight years. How much, this is a really important question. As a professor, what is it like pre tenure and post tenure? Because it seems to be a night and day difference in terms of freedom and. Right. I overplay that a bit. But everyone does. It's not you. Everyone. I guess. Yeah, it's a strange whole organization and logic, the higher education. I'm opposed to tenure. I think it's bullshit. Yeah. Absolutely. But do you think it protects intellectual freedom? No. In any way? No. I mean, I think there was a time in which we might make that argument, but I don't know. Who else has tenure? What other professions? It's a good question. It's insane. It's not the real world. So you think it's in some ways not good? Because then the, almost like the intellectual version of being born wealthy. Like you have no worries and so you almost become spoiled intellectually. Well, okay. Yeah. Well, yes, absolutely. There are arguments that after some faculty get tenure, they shut down or they really aren't doing as much research anymore and there isn't that drive. Right. I mean, it's a whole tiered system. So you get tenure when you move from assistant to associate professor. And then what you want to get to is full professor. Right. Right. And again, that's just a different place and hierarchy. Yeah. But again, it's all- The papers you write, the books you publish. I mean, yeah, my humanities, it's getting a couple books out there. But yeah, I mean, I can't deny that I felt much freer after I got tenure to explore topics that I would be more hesitant to explore. Which topics in particular? Drugs. Drugs. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a really good question. You know, I guess, I think, as a researcher, I think, as a researcher, I think, as a researcher, as a researcher, as a researcher, as a researcher, as a researcher, as a full force, you know, kind of go into it. Again, because there's a legitimate purpose to a scholarly study of the connections between religion and drugs. Luckily, I'm not the only one who's pursuing this, but it's, I believe there are a lot of interesting connections that haven't been made, especially in contemporary American society. The other drug that I'm particularly interested in and seems to get a lot of response is that I also include pharmaceuticals and prescription psychoactive drugs as a part of the drugs and religion connection. And so looking at the pharmaceutical industry and pills as sort of religious objects and structures and cultures. Really? How so? Like anti-anxiety medication? Right. Yeah, I mean that is just a kind of, you know, it's ritualized so you put it, you know, you've got to make sure, you know, you take it and take it when you're supposed to take it. You put faith in this little magic pill that is effective and can bring you to a better place. It has importance in terms of community and who you are connected with, how the drug allows you to have certain kinds of community. So a lot of this is obviously kind of a message. You see the messages in pharmaceutical commercials, which are for me dripping with kind of religious sentiments and sensibilities. You can be saved, you know, where you saved. Well, you're saved with a pill. So this is a subject in particular that like pre-tenure would be you'd have to be walking on eggshells. Again, drugs more generally, I would be, I would, yeah, I would not be necessarily going there. But, you know, I mean, I'm not sure. So other professors share your perspective on tenure that's kind of nonsense? Or bullshit, I should say. I would say, yeah, there are some, but most must enjoy it, though. I think most people would like to keep it and think it serves some function in terms of, as you're saying, sort of legitimacy of academic freedom. Some people are internally motivated. Some people are motivated just by whatever drives them, whatever intellectual curiosity, their goals, whatever it is, it has nothing to do with financial stability or job stability. But not most. Most people, if you give them 100% job security, they're going to get fat. Yeah. I'm afraid I would agree. Absolutely. It's weird. And you're right. Some people are just, you know, just motivated. They want to succeed and pursue their interests sort of no matter what. And there are certainly a number of scholars who are like that. Sure. They make their way to the top. The path is what interests them. Right. The destination is not real. Right. Exactly. I think that's exactly right. But as I sort of joked earlier, I joke that this is called work and I don't feel I really work. Right. I have a great, great job. I just love what I do. Well, you nailed it, right? You figured out what actually interests you. And for some people, what you do would be work, but not for you. No. Well, right. Exactly. Again, I'm very fortunate, especially being at Emory. So it's a different kind of professional life that I've been really fortunate in. It wasn't planned. You know, I was a fuck up and as I write about in this new book, you know, don't think about death, which is a memoir on mortality. I was directionless and just fucking around at high school and getting high and taking all kinds of drugs. How dare you? Yeah. Can you believe that? In the San Fernando Valley? That's weird. You were doing that in the San Fernando Valley. No one does that there. Nobody. No. You must have been a rebel. Yeah, right. Talk about conformity, but oh my God. What part of the valley did you live in? Van Nuys. Oh, okay. Our old studio was in Woodland Hills. Right. And one of your guys grew up in the valley, so I got to talk to him. It was fun. I used to work out in Van Nuys. It's where Benny the Jets' Jet Center was. Oh, right. Right. You know where that was? Funny. World famous kick parts in general. Oh yeah. One of the first places I came to when I came to California. You go to the Jets' Center. Because you had heard about it. Oh my God. It was legendary. Benny Arquita is like a legendary kickboxer in the early days of kickboxing, and he came out of Los Angeles. Yeah. It's so funny how many people come out of San Fernando Valley or connected. I mean, but that's, I guess, not that funny. Well, a lot of people out there. Yeah. Well, but in any case, I was on a different path and luckily came around. Episodes of the Joe Rogan Experience are now free on Spotify. That's right. They're free from September 1st to December 1st. They're going to be available everywhere, but after December 1st, they will only be available on Spotify, but they will be free. That includes the video. The video will also be there. It'll also be free. That's all we're asking. Just go download Spotify. Much love. Bye bye. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah. Mwah.