Jordan Peterson Is NOT Alt-Right! | Joe Rogan and Tom Papa

You do spots late at night, so do you shut it down at some point during the day? Do you nap? No. No. You never nap? No. Hmm. No. I don't think I need it. Interesting. I don't feel it ever helps. Right. Yeah, I'd rather power through. Right. But I get it if you need it. If I felt like I needed it. Like, it definitely took a bunch of naps when I got back from Italy because I was whacked out because I would sleep. Yeah, it was a time changer. Yeah. It fucked me up, man. I would wake up and I'd be like, why am I wide awake? Right. It's two in the morning. This is so stupid. And then I would be up and then I'd get really sleepy around six. I'd try to sleep for an hour before I had to wake up. Then I woke up again. And then I would take a nap in the afternoon. It took like a good four or five days before that leveled out and I started sleeping on a normal schedule. But you work out so much you don't, you're burning energy. Like, usually when you're really in shape, you don't need naps. But you shouldn't use TM for your brain. Yeah, that sounds like I should do it. Why don't you just give me a mantra? Why don't you come up with a mantra for me? Why don't you become my instructor? You've been doing it long enough. I don't want to go to some other dude. Diaz. Just Diaz? Yeah. Which one? Nick or Joey? How about Nate? Nate. Nate Diaz? No, Joey. Joey. Joey Diaz? Just think Joey Diaz. Joey Diaz. Joey Diaz. Joey Diaz. You could just do it. You could just create a, just use OM. I mean, I don't understand why. Yeah, why do you have a mantra? Yeah. Tell us your mantra, bro. I can't. Wow. Come on. I can't. Tom. I'm not allowed. Tom, you can tell us. They'll come and get me. That's so not true. Huh? That's so not true. No, they won't come and get me, but it's kind of a personal thing because it has no meaning. If I say it, then you're going to say something back now. There's something attached to it. That's why you don't say it. Oh, okay. You know what I mean? It's a pure word. It's just a pure sound that has no mental attachments to it. In the earliest days of religion, wasn't it a problem if you said God's name? Aren't there like certain sects of religion that don't think that you should say God's name? Like whatever God's name is, whatever it's a... Todd. Yeshua. Or whatever it is. Whatever the name of God is. Mm-hmm. Why am I trying to remember this? Sounds like a Jordan Peterson thing. No. Yeah, he would know. He would know the answer to it. Yeah. Well, obviously. Well, obviously. Like the way he says obviously. That's pretty good. That's very Canadian. He might be a Canadian spy. Well, obviously. You can't... How you say? You can't talk about the name without it coming back at you, obviously. Is that... That's pretty good, right? He's one of the most misinterpreted guys I think I've ever met. Not just willfully misinterpreted, where people take the words and the things that he's saying and willfully misconstrue them. They purposefully change what he's saying to make it more offensive, more unreasonable. People are angry. Why? Well, it's hard to say. I think part of it has to do with the way he initially came onto the scene. Oh, because of the transgender things? Yes. Was he was very concerned that they were forcing people to use certain language like new pronouns. Right. And people were saying like, why do you have a problem with people's pronouns? And he's saying, that's not what I'm saying. Right. The problem is not whether or not I would have a problem with someone's pronouns. The problem is being legally compelled to use these new words that someone's inventing. He's like, I am not doing this. Right. The government telling me how I can speak. Exactly. Not just that. The government also being influenced by people who want you to be legally compelled to say their pronouns. It's a slippery slope of control more than it is a thing of culture or of morals or compassion or from being progressive. He's not saying that. He's saying it based on his very deep understanding of history and of some communist dictatorships that have gone horribly wrong. Some Marxist philosophies that he's aware of that he thinks are horribly damaging and dangerous if implemented on a large scale. Like if you allow large groups of people to control language to legally compel people to say these new words you're inventing. Right. He's like, this is not good. This is a bad path for humans. Just historically it's a bad path. Right. So that's how he broke onto the scene. In that time period all these people who opposed what he was saying, they were labeling him as transphobic. They were labeling him as homophobic. All these different things that are not true. Then he gets connected to this peppy the frog thing because he thinks it's kind of hilarious that the internet has taken on peppy the frog as like this meme, the feels good man frog. I don't know that. You didn't know the whole thing? Wow. Where have you been living, man? You stopped meditating to read the fucking newspaper. No, but I listen to him all the time. I didn't know any of this. I didn't know. You didn't know peppy the frog is racist? No. Okay. This is serious. Okay. You have to know this because if somebody wants you to take a picture with this peppy the frog thing, there are a certain group of people out there who will decide Tom Papa is some sort of all white white nationalist, white supremacist, Nazi person. What? No bullshit. A fucking frog. A frog? Some people have used that frog in a negative way. Some people, most people use that frog as a joke. Like feels bad, man. The frog is like, hmm. It's an animated thing? Just a frog. A cartoon of a frog. But the alt right, or I shouldn't even say the alt right, people on internet forums would constantly and consistently use that frog as a joke about everything. Like they had Donald Trump's hair on that frog. Right. But it's more humor and mocking and making fun of things. And as the British would say, taking the piss. He's taking the piss with the frog. But there were a few that would have the frog with like a swastika armband and a fucking Nazi hat on. Sure. Why? Because they're internet people. Right. Like you leave something on the internet long enough someone's going to put a Nazi flag on. And it doesn't mean that it's a symbol of Nazis. But then it's a symbol of white supremacy because that's not what it was. And so he dared logically argue this. And people were very, very upset. And they thought he was defending. Yes. He's defending white nationalists. Like he's saying, no, no, no, there's a fucking cartoon frog, guys. And it's not like that. It's a cartoon frog written by a guy who specifically sued people to get them to stop using the cartoon flag. Even Alex Jones had to pay out a lawsuit because Infowars used an image of that cartoon flag. Can you see if that's true? I'm pretty sure that's true. But it was a nominal amount. It was like he lost it in corporate. It was like a very small $15,000 to pay for Alex. That's not a lot of money settlement. It's a settlement. So I'm sure he paid way more in legal fees. Right. To deal with something like that. I'm sure if they had to put together some sort of a defense for $15,000, I'm sure that probably cost a shitload of money. But the point is that this frog has all these different meanings. So as soon as it gets connected though to an awful thing, then immediately you gotta go, okay, well you can never use that frog again because another frog's corrupted. Now, given what we know, and here's where it gets really weird, given what we know about the internet and specifically foreign influence on memes, like Russia, there was factories that were making funny memes about Hillary Clinton, funny memes about all kinds of things, and doing so in order to get people upset or to laugh or to mock certain ideas and push the narrative one way or another through humor. And they made some really funny ones. There was a woman named Renee DiResta. She came on the podcast explaining shit. For a project, she had to go through hundreds of thousands of these things. She's like, some of them were really funny. And these were ones that they know were made by Russians, were made to try to get people upset about certain things. How many of those Pepe the Frog things came from that? How many? If you had a frog that was mocking everybody and the frog was a really good symbol to make someone think that you're a fool. So you say something ridiculous and you're trying to push for something and then that frog is in a meme with you, what you're saying, but he looks like an idiot. All of a sudden you look like an idiot and the frog's mocking you. You can't beat the frog, but you can turn the frog into a Nazi. So then when you turn the frog into a Nazi, anybody who uses the frog is now a Nazi. So he got caught up in this? Yeah. He took a photo with these guys and he's talked about Pepe the Frog on my podcast. I've talked about it and explained the whole thing to me in depth. And yet I've seen articles connecting him to white nationalists because there's a photo of him with the frog. Jeez Louise. He pulled up a photo of Jordan Peterson with Pepe the Frog because he took a photo with these guys where they had like a frog flag and he thought it as what we were just saying. These guys that are taking the piss. It's like a flat Stanley or something. It's sad. Right? It's like a man's internet version of flat Stanley and it's primarily a 4chan thing. Oh really? Jamie knows this shit more than I do, honestly. There he is. And he's standing there with these guys. Oh God. These two fellas are holding up this Pepe the Frog flag and Jordan's laughing and smiling with them and one of them has a, I think it's a Make American Great Again hat on. Look these kids are human trolls. They're alive among people that troll on the internet. Yeah. And then think of one that thinks it's hilarious to be out there in public trolling with Pepe the Frog flag and a Make American Great Again hat. Oh my God. Listen, he's fucking with people. This is what this is. Yeah, obviously. It's a lot of what internet culture is. Trapped. So he, Jordan understands this and talks about it and discusses it in length and he makes it make sense. Right. So that's one other reason why people are upset at him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just very easy to label people in certain ways today. It's very easy to label someone as a misogynist. Right. No, I know. But if you listen to the breadth of his work, this is not a bad person. He's a very good person. It's very enlightening. There's a lot of real practical ways to, as he says, clean up your room and live right. Well, he's a personal friend of mine. I like him very much. Well, obviously, how do you say? You think about these things. You're trying to have a conversation. It shows how actually articulate he is because you can't come up with things that he would say that makes sense. Well, I know. It's hard, right? There's no catchphrase for him. Obviously, clean up your damn room. Clean up your damn room. That's the only... He's got a lot of great advice. He's also a very, very insightful person. What about all of his... And he's not a bad guy at all. No, he seems... It's just people have this horrible thing that they do today where when they want to dismiss someone instead of... Instead of listening to them. Instead of listening to them and debating the points that they have or analyzing them in an objective kind way, they try to attack. Everybody's attacking. Everything sucks. Everybody sucks. Everybody's stupid. Everybody's racist. Everybody's dumb. Everybody's ridiculous. Everybody's a liar. Everybody's shit. You're not on my team. You're on someone else's team. There's just so much of that today. There's so much. It's unnecessary. I really enjoy listening to him. I enjoy all those biblical speeches that he gives about trying to interpret the Old Testament and stuff like that. It's very, very interesting. I've never heard somebody connect our practical trying to find our way through the woods to those writings. You always just heard of it as growing up as a Catholic kid. You just kind of heard them as like, they're stories and they're obviously... They're metaphors and whatever. But I never heard somebody really say, no, it's how you treat your father and the way you're trying to figure out your way through life. That's what these things mean. It's a very fascinating listen. Yeah. He's got a very unusual way of interpreting biblical verses and stories from the Bible, stories from other religions as well, where he's explained what and how it sort of interfaces with man's search for meaning. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's like a practical way to kind of approach the world. In a time when we have nothing to hang on to, it's kind of interesting stuff to think about.