Jon Bernthal Reflects on Interviewing Shia Labeouf

What kind of blowback? Oh man, you know, like, so much, you know, I think that, you know, look, I had Shia LaBeouf on, you know, after these allegations came out of him and, you know, being physically and emotionally abusive to his girlfriend at the time. And, you know, what was crazy was I never wanted to have any actors on. That was kind of like my rule, just because and not because there's just so many podcasts where actors are talking to actors and they're talking about. And I'm actually interested in that shit. But like, you know, like nobody needs to hear me talk about that. Right. But Shia, at the time, you know, he he was a guy that, you know, when we did Fury together. You know, that was such a wild experience. And, you know, he he was this guy who came in, he like pulled his tooth out because he thought his character shouldn't have a tooth. You know, he like cut his his his face. You know, he didn't shower for eight months. And at first, when I met him, I was like, this guy is just fucking he's just loud. You know, he's just he's he's he's he's wearing his process on his sleeve, showing everybody how hard he's working. But what I found, you know, after the eight months of working with him. Was somebody who and I, you know, and this is it's just my own. And he is every bit this thing is every bit as vital to him as it was with me. I found a real partner. I found a real kindred spirit. I found that he was so fucking cute. He was he was willing to risk it all for for for for this for the work. And I walked away with an enormous amount of respect for him and love for him. I also saw a guy who grew up as a child star, a guy who was felt like he needed to bleed out for his art, felt that he needed to live wildly out on the street and in real life in order to sort of maintain that danger in his work. And I'm coming from a guy, you know, me at this point where I did all that when I didn't have the umbrella of being, you know, a big movie star. And I didn't I didn't have that. But now I'm a guy who's absolutely a committed husband and father. That that is my life like that. Like my life is my family. And what I found is the well, the things that I can tap into and my emotional sort of accessibility of being a dedicated father and and and husband is so much greater than when I was sort of this wild animal. And and I care about people way more than I care about myself. My ego is dead in that in that sense. So I really wanted to be there for him. And the first thing I remember seeing him and seeing this like raw nerve and this unbelievable talent, I would say I think he's the best actor I've ever worked with. And I really wanted to protect him. And I think more than anything else, I really wanted to show him what a real friend was like. I just remember like saying that to myself. I want to show you what a real friend is like. I feel like you've never really had a real friend. And my friends, the guys that I grew up with, they've been my best friends my whole life. They you know, they, you know, couldn't do anything without them. I just like I value that so much. Right. So we had him on the podcast real early on. And before this stuff came out and it was right at a time when he had gotten in trouble down in Georgia and he went to rehab and he wrote this movie sort of about his own life called Honey Boy that got nominated for an Oscar. And he wrote it and he started. He played his dad. It was a very it's a movie about his life. And I kind of had him on sort of celebrating, you know, where he was at, because for a long time, he had taken a lot of shit from this industry. And here he was sort of on top of the world. And I remember at the time, you know, my my agents at the time were calling me being like, you think I could just get a phone call with Shai like maybe we could like bring him. You know, just he was like, you know, and then these these these chart, you know, this this woman said he did these things to him and he was just he was just done, you know, canceled. And and. And I'll say, man, when when I heard those, I decide when I heard that that he had done those things. You know, for me, there really is a red line with people that I need to look at with myself and through all the shit that I've seen, all the shit that I've done, man, I just I can't be down with you if you put your hands on a woman. If you put your hands on a woman or a child, dude, I just like, you know, I can't, man, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't get over that. I can't. And I heard this, you know, about my friend and. You know, I was really broken hearted about it and. Time went by, I mean, like two years and. You know, I know how much, you know, acting is not only important to him, but like sort of necessary for his survival. And I would reach out on text, you know, checking on him and that. But we hadn't made contact. And then I heard that he was having a baby and he was married and. I reached out to him and. I said, hey, maybe it's time for you and me to have another talk and. I made a decision with my team and with him where I needed. Again, you go back to the intentionality. And I really looked at this this role that you have of being a friend and being a friend is not about turning your back on somebody when they're when they do something that you find fucking deplorable or when you find disgusting. Your job as a friend is to make sure they don't do it again. And your job now as this guy's being a father is to step in there and say, hey, man, where are you at? Like, what are you doing? What kind of work are you doing? Where are you? Like, that's what being a friend is. And everybody in my life is like worst idea in the world. You cannot do that. You cannot do that. And then, you know, he came on, man, and and and we spoke and. You know, I. It was weird because I found so many of the same themes and so many of the same the heart of what I found in that community, I found in Shaya, the level of disgust, the level of work, the level of commitment, the level of shame, the level of time spent, this fluency with with with his victim. And I wasn't I had no interest in exonerating him or saying or saving him in any way. I wanted to check on him and I want to see how he was doing. And I felt that that was an honest thing. And. You know, just the fact that I had him on, I got an enormous amount of backlash, an enormous amount of for the for really the first time kind of as like a public person, just like kind of hatred. And the fact that I had given somebody. Who could have, you know, who may have done these things that this woman says. You know that that really hurt people and I felt fucking terrible about that man, like I like. Did you wish you hadn't done it? No, no, because after talking to him and then going around and. Talking to women who have been victims himself, talking to, you know, this one one woman specifically who we were going to have on, but. Her. She had health issues and couldn't, but. You know what, what I've found is so many people have reached out who said, like, I was in that place like I like I was in that place where he was, I was in that place. Where I was, whether I was abusive or not abusive, I was getting there and the drugs and the alcohol were getting the better of me. And I mean, really what you know, he's. He was two years sober at the time that I had him on and. And I. I thought really what it was was like a real meditation and shame, you know, and I thought that. You know what this woman said to me was, you know, with all there's so many places and platforms for. Women to go to their shelters, there's places to go to to talk about the abuse, to be there to help people after the fact. But who is talking to these fucked up young men who are committed to this? To these fucked up young men who are committing the abuse, who is talking to them and saying, dude, don't do that. Like, I've been there. There is another way. This is not the answer. Stop. Go get help. Change your behavior. Work. Put in the work. I just you know, I I I ultimately felt. You know that that that what he said could have a real positive effect. And I believe looking back on it now again, man, it's like, you know, what are you going to do? You can weigh the the the comments of people. I've told you, you know, the worst guy on earth for doing it, or you can weigh the comments and the people say, hey, man, I that thing saved my life. For you know, I mean, I can't look at it that way. I look at the intentionality behind what the show was and why why I why I decided to have him on and then why I decided to air it. And I stand by it.