Joe Rogan - You Don't Want to Always Be High

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Dennis McKenna

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Dennis McKenna is an ethnopharmacologist, author, and brother to well-known psychedelics proponent Terence McKenna. His new book "Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs: 50 Years of Research (1967-2017)" is available here: http://www.synergeticpress.com/shop/ethnopharmacologic-search-psychoactive-drugs-50-years-research/

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Transcript

Hello freak bitches. I was saying that marijuana can be your friend and it can enhance your life but if if you take too much it's such a seductive little creature a little bit of it is like ah this is nice this feels good but if you get too crazy especially if you get too crazy with edibles it'll take you and take you away on this wild journey of paranoia and and you it'll lock you up like some people just need to take a couple weeks off just relax that's always a good idea yeah yeah I think people underestimate cannabis I think it can be like you say it can really sort of knock you off your center especially if it's edible and like all these things you've got to learn how to use it yeah I mean it's basically that's what you got to do you'll have to learn how to use it but you know you know that's my rap so yeah it is your rap but it's a great rap it really is it's so important it's I think it's so important for people to realize that you gotta let like regular you like you like natural sober you it's important to be in touch with that like you don't want to always be high or always be caffeinated or always be anything well exactly I mean we're you know people get you know to these places and they fail to do a reality check on themselves you know I mean I get emails from people all the time I said well I'm you know life's been pretty weird lately I took mushrooms five times last week and you know I was and it's like dude how about you lay off for a while give your itself a chance because you know they tell these stories and it's like the idea of okay let's find your center go back to baseline lay off the sauce whatever it is you're taking and just chill out and try and re rediscover your center it seems like common sense advice but people don't do it does seem like common sense advice but common sense is not common yes all you have to do is look around what is it about people though that once they indulge in any sort of a minute it doesn't even have to be a substance it could be an activity like gambling for instance like once it gets in your bones it just seems like you're so compelled to just continue that behavior and and the idea of stopping is almost more painful than the idea of wrecking your life this this is this is addiction yeah this is basically these things are reinforcing they activate those pleasure circuits you know in in the brain mediated mainly through dopamine and all of these I mean that the so-called drugs of abuse which I think is a terrible work terrible but you know the reinforcing drugs the pleasure drugs work directly or indirectly through the dopamine circuits and the dopamine is like your your button for pleasure you know in the same way that serotonin it's kind of on the opposite side it's your button for more like euphoria feeling good but not the it doesn't have the the punch I guess that the which is why people can get addicted to gambling they can get addicted to sex they can get addicted to television all of these things it doesn't have to be substances because they all hit those same circuits you know except the psychedelics which don't work on that reward circuitry they work on a different set of circuits but yet even with those your behavior patterns can become addictive you know then you can start just doing psychedelics too much and it's not even the psychedelics that are doing it it's just this compulsive need to constantly change your state of mind hmm yeah that's quite true and if people you know the way to use psychedelics is is there are many ways to use it but basically use it thoughtfully you know I mean you can all the question about recreational use versus spiritual use versus therapeutic use I mean these are all ways to approach it and I am not a person who says you must do it this way you must do it that way what I do say is do it from an informed place and do approach it thoughtfully you know because I mean in other words don't you know plan for it respect the medicine in a certain way you know use it in a circumstance where you can learn from the medicine rather than have the medicine be sort of a you know overlay over whatever else you're doing I mean this is something that demands attention and I think that's the best way to use psychedelics and for whatever you know whatever spin you put on it is it spiritual is it therapeutic is it recreational is it shamanic these are all labels the important thing is that you know you you have the you approach the medicine itself the medicine is the teacher right not the sitter not the shaman that's the psychotherapist if they're doing the right their job correctly in my opinion their job is to let you have your encounter with the medicine and the medicine is what you learn from they're there to facilitate that they can intervene if you get anxious or if things go on make sure you know nobody comes to the door that kind of thing but basically it's to facilitate a learning opportunity where you and your teacher which is the medicine be it ayahuasca or mushrooms or whatever can have this intense one-on-one interaction you know I feel like with psychedelics as well as with all these other things we're talking about any kind of drug I mean even coffee alcohol whatever and behavior patterns all these different things I think one of the things that happens with human beings is you get so far along in your life in these behavior patterns become so like tight grooves that are carved into your psyche and then as you become an adult then you start to learn like oh there's got to be a better way to handle this let me figure out how to do this and it's almost like getting a car when you're really young and not learning how to drive until you like in your 20s right and so you're just driving this thing it's smashing into trees and grinding the gears and then somewhere along the line you're like oh my god I'm fucking myself up I have to figure out a way to do this correctly and there's two different approaches just one the abstinence approach which is very popular people say well I'm I'm straight-edge now I don't do anything and that's it and I just you know I just do wheatgrass and I run hills and stuff like okay you could do that too I mean right you can do it you definitely can do that too but it's I just don't think that there's anything wrong with any of these things I think there's something wrong with the way we use them and I think it's one of the inherent problems with things being illegal mm-hmm is that we can't discuss this and we don't have people like you or centers where people can go where people can become educated on the proper way to use these drugs or medicines whatever you want to call them these compounds and get something out of them that can really be beneficial right that's that's exactly right I mean I've said this many many times that you know drug education what they call drug education in this country is a joke because the whole emphasis is on don't use them that's absurd that's like telling you know an 18 year old guy full of testosterone don't have sex right oh come on it's built into the genetics they're gonna go for that what you have to do what they can't bring themselves to acknowledge in the drug education field is it's not about telling people not to use drugs it's about teaching people how to use drugs if they choose to right I mean like any other skill people have to learn to drive they have to learn to do yoga they have to learn to do whatever they do there's an educational process I tell people many times you know my shtick is there is no such thing as a bad drug and that's another problem with the dialogue the badness is projected onto the drugs drugs are simply compounds with a certain form ecology there's no moral aspect to them the moral dimension comes and how do people use them that's where you know it's human behavior that's moral or immoral I say you know there's no such thing as a bad drug plenty of bad ways to use drugs you know but that comes from the person not the compound