Joe Rogan | Was Jesus a Real Person?

That's very admirable, but I think for some people it represents bonding of the community. You could have concerts and lectures and book clubs. I think when they get together and they talk about all the values that Jesus proposed, if Jesus is the higher power, it gives them this sort of, again, moral scaffolding to live their life. Yes. Well, Jesus would probably on the whole provide a fairly good moral scaffolding, not totally, but he was ahead of his time anyway. So you do think he was a real person? Most of the scholars I've talked to say he probably was. The evidence is not great, of course, but I think I don't think it's that big a deal actually because he – I mean, a wandering preacher called Yeshua or Yahoshua, would it not be surprising? I mean, it's a common name and there are plenty of wandering preachers. What would be very surprising would be if he raised a razzle from the dead and walked from water and turned water into wine. And that, of course, didn't. It did not happen. Well, why couldn't people just drink water either? Why do they have to drink wine? He's trying to get people drunk? Well, that's a separate question. I mean, I think the point I'm making is that it's a very big difference to say, did he exist? And maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Who cares, really? That's very different from saying that a miracle worker who really did do miracles rather than countering tricks existed. Yes. What was the – you said that you wrote this – it's a beginner's guide, outgrowing God, a beginner's guide. Well, it's for young people. I originally wanted to write a book for the young children and publishers didn't want to do that. So they kept pushing the age range up and so it stabilised at about 15. But I think 14 – well, the first chapter has been read by one 10-year-old of my acquaintance. He loved it. And I think – but really, I'm hoping it'll be read by people of all ages. There's one thing that does happen to some people that are indoctrinated very young that the experience is so negative to them that they rebel. And they rebel and then they seek out other ways of thinking and then you find them eventually abandoning their religion. There's a woman named Megan Phelps. Do you know who she is? I think I do. She's Fred Phelps from the Westboro Baptist Church. She was his granddaughter and amazing woman. She wound up communicating with people through all things Twitter. And her husband – she rebelled against her father. Yes. I've got a grandfather. She wound up leaving the church and wound up realising that she was trapped in some sort of a Christian cult and a very hateful one. Yes. They're the God hates fags people. Exactly. I know. And the same was true of Nate Phelps who was Fred Phelps' son and he also escaped. He escaped on his 18th birthday and became an atheist and became – I think he's actually spoken at some of our conferences from time to time. Yeah, there's hope in that. Yes, there is. It's just when – I like when people can – and she – I've had her on the podcast. She's such a unique woman and she's so kind and she's so thoughtful and intelligent, it's hard to believe that she's only been out of this cult for a few years. I mean, Twitter's only been around for 14 years. Yeah, why wasn't she ruined by it, I'm saying. Yeah. Why wasn't she ruined by it and why she is so intelligent? How did she exist in that structure while being so intelligent? I agree. But of course, I feel the same way about apparently intelligent people who believe obvious nonsense. Yeah. And it's hard to understand.