Joe Rogan talks to Sargon of Akkad about Anita Sarkeesian & VidCon


6 years ago



Carl Benjamin

1 appearance

Sargon of Akkad is an "Anti-Identitarian liberal YouTuber" (


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Hello freak bitches! For them. But there's been a bit of an interesting development with Miss Sakeezin if you'd like to hear about it. Well, tell people who she is. I don't even know if I need to, but AniSake- Most people don't know. You live in a very insulated world. Like, if I ask my mom. Well, yeah, your mom won't know, but people who use the internet- What's feminine frequency? Yeah, of course your mom won't know. Okay, AniSakeezin is an internet feminist who decided- After making a bunch of videos on her YouTube channel, like 2009 through to 2010 or something. 12. She ended up getting a favorable reception with the progressive intelligentsia who are very feminist, very pro-social justice. And they liked her patter because it's pretty stock. Pretty stock in trade. And she came across as being very respectable. She's well presented, she's attractive, she's well spoken. She knows her patter. So they promote her. They made a big deal out of her. She sounds like a total bigot when she's talking about anything. A bigot? How so? Because she'll just say, well, this is men. I mean, the whole premise of feminism is that men are oppressing women. And if men aren't oppressing women, then feminism has no argument. And they also have a sort of thing they say to each other, where you have the right to hate your oppressor. It's right to do this. And it's like, okay, but I don't think there's ever a right to hate, even if you are being- This is something that she said personally? Not her personally. She probably has said it personally, but this is the sort of ideological thought. I mean, if you read their papers, if you read their media- We're doing that they-them thing again, right? So what are we talking about? Talking about hardcore feminists? Talking about a specific sphere of academic feminists. In her case, sex negative. Sex negative? Yeah, they don't like objectification. What is sex? Sex negative? Yeah, they don't like sexy women. The male gaze is oppressing women by looking- Lara Croft? Tomb Raider? I've got you. That was part of the big issue, right? It was like sexist in the video games. Horrific oppression because of Lara Croft. Terrible, terrible oppression. I don't know how women can get over it. But Ani Sakhisian stepped up and was like, you know what? It's wrong to look at these tits. And everyone was like, but she's wearing a really tight top for a reason and she's not real. Yeah. But yeah, so basically Ani Sakhisian comes from a school of sex negative feminism, and she decided that she would take advantage of all this. Now in 2010, there was a video- I think it was 2010. The video was recorded in black and white of her and a university, giving a speech where she says, I'm not a gamer. I had to learn a lot about gaming to get into all this. And then come 2012, I mean, that video wasn't released until after she did her Tropes vs Women in Gaming Kickstarter. 2012, May 2012, she starts this Kickstarter and within the first few days, she starts posting updates on there. I'm being harassed. It's like, well, yeah, people generally react negatively to phenomenal bigots on the internet. They don't like it. People don't like it. I mean, when you say men are oppressing women, and everything she says is a variant of men are oppressing women, you know. The male gaze is highly oppressive to women. Toxic masculinity is highly oppressive to women. Okay, when can men legitimately look at women and eat her? No answer. What is non-toxic masculinity? There's no such thing. So what you're saying is masculinity and men checking out chicks is just bad, and you hate it, and the men are all bad for doing this, and they're oppressing the women when they're doing this. Well, that's why I said it seems like she's a bit of an opportunist. She's got an angle, and she realizes that there's a lot of attention that goes towards that angle, and she runs with it. I mean, if I turn around and say, all women are a bunch of manipulative slags who will take your money and run, they'll be like, you're a fucking misogynist. Alright, but I gotta stop you there, because I don't think she's ever said all men. I don't think she said that. She just uses the term men. I don't think she does. I mean, I really don't think she says that she has that guy as her fucking head guy who writes for her. Well, Mackintosh. No, she fired him years ago. Oh, sad. I know. What is he doing now? He has nothing, basically. This terrible thing. But I want to set the record straight on a few things, because this is something that really annoys me. So I went to VidCon recently, and... VidCon? Yeah. What is that? YouTube convention in Anaheim. Oh, it sounded like a good time. It was a really good time for me, but it wasn't for them. Their panels looked like a bloody death march when they spotted us sitting in the car with their faces like, oh, god. Why, they get upset at you? Yeah, just because we sat there listening to what they had to say. In fact, have you not heard about this? No, dude. I'm insulated. Oh, dude, this is actually hilarious, right? I live in the real world. It's crazy. So Anita Sarkeesian, she spots me sitting in the audience, and then she starts freaking out. Freaking out? Yeah, she starts saying things like, there's a constant harasser of mine calling me, you know, she called me a shithead. She called me a garbage human. A garbage human? I did nothing to her. I didn't say a word. I just sat in the audience while she's there cussing me out on the stage. I mean, this now for a— So she's on the stage with a microphone. Yes. She's calling you a shithead and a garbage human. And a garbage human. And this is because you have made videos about her, is that what it is? This is because I've made videos debunking her points. Like, and she's under the impression that all of my videos are about her. And I actually, on the ride over, I got people to, like, count it up for me. I've made around 30 videos in about four years referring to her. That's a lot. No, no, no. It sounds—no, it sounds like a lot. But that's less than 4% of the videos I've made. I've made 780 videos. I work hard. I'm sure you do, but that's still 30 videos. I don't care if you've made 100 million videos. You still make 30 videos about her. I don't think that's a large number, you know. Maybe it's a large number compared to Anita, who hardly does any bloody work, but— But that's another interesting point. But what's interesting about it is, if someone put something out there, you know, you're going to expect that someone is going to come along, especially a guy like you, that is very opinionated. And if someone has very different opinions than yours, you're going to have a contrary point. Of course. That's definitely not harassing. It better not be. Well, it can't be. We're in a scary position if that's— It's terrifying. Yeah. So how are you harassing? Like, what was the— I'm not. And that's the thing. That's the worst thing you've ever said about her. That she's wrong. That's it. Well, yeah. I mean, you will never find someone who says she's a good critic. She's a terrible critic, and she always has been. She's always been—it's always been rightly pointed out to her that she's cherry-picked every time. No one stands by her work. She's become like a symbol of feminism because of all the harassment she's received. Now, I'm— That is a part of the problem, right? Yeah, yeah. That victim culture is very strange. Exactly. Like, you don't get any props unless someone's sending you horrible messages. Because a lot of people have been caught doing it to themselves, which is really fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Loads. Like, the Black Lives Matter activists, someone. But, yeah, so basically, she's—her work sucks. It's just bad work. I mean, nobody in the video game industry would turn around and say, you know what? That's great criticism, Nita. Only like the progressive press. What Black Lives Matter activists say? It was ages ago at protests. They basically had run around into the university's computer system, logged into a fake Twitter account or something, sent themselves a bomb threat. And the police tracked it down, and they were like, we have the video camera footage. Did you think we missed you, idiot? Yeah, yeah. It was actually really funny. But, yeah, so— People are so funny with their need to be a victim. Well, it's— It validates them. Yeah, it really does. When you don't have an argument, you need to be a victim. Well, does she expect that somehow or another, she's going to be able to put these points out and not have anybody dispute these points? Well, I'm guessing so. And she always conflates all criticism with harassment. She's never addressed a critic before. Oh, okay. And the first time she addresses a critic, it's me, and she's calling me names. Yeah, that's not a good look. Well, that's not very mature. Yeah, it's not very good. It's not a good look. She says that I'm responsible for all of the harassment. Now— All of it? Well, at least— It's definitely not hers. It's not her fault. No, no. If you have a controversial opinion and someone disputes it, that person disputes it and is responsible for all the harassment. Yeah, well, basically, I've always said, right from the get-go, don't ever contact them. Don't ever contact them. Because for a start, I mean, they don't want to listen. She's not interested in hearing your fucking opinion. So don't bother. She's got nothing but contempt for you. But secondly, don't send a harassment because, A, it's immoral, and B, she's got the victim card. That gives her money. When you send her a message saying, hey, Neeta, I think you're a bitch, she goes, cha-ching. And then she runs off to the next interview where she gets paid. I mean, some of her speeches at university, she's been paid 20 grand a speech. That's hilarious. I'm not joking, right? And it's just— And for her to go, the internet's being mean to me. Well, maybe if you weren't being a bigot online, they wouldn't be. Maybe if you actually did some solid work and didn't say video games are making everyone sexist, which they're obviously not, this wouldn't be happening to you. But the thing that pisses me off most about the accusations towards me of harassment, apart from the fact that I've never harassed her, and if there was any evidence I'd harassed her, it'd be all over the internet right now. It would be nothing but Twitter. Because they're trying to paint me as a harasser when I'm actually just a critic of hers, and I've always been completely against it. But what really annoys me is that her Kickstarter, if you look at it now, if you go to it, you can pull it up now, and you can see Tropes Sizes women, and she's got a spiel, and then, oh, the terrible messages, the harassment, the harassment. That was in May 2012. I didn't make a video on YouTube until July 2013. This has been happening to her whole career. It's nothing to do with me. It's to do with her. It's because she's a dick, and everyone can see it. You want to call a girl a dick like you call a guy a pussy? Yeah, I'm calling her a dick. I don't care. You're a dick, Anita. Everyone knows you're a dick. You looked into the camera. That's harassment. Do you want to know something? I've spoken to a lot of interesting people recently, since I've been here. A lot of people who know you personally, Anita, and they say everyone hates you because you're a dick. Oh, this is getting mean. Hey, you should have seen the article she put up about me today. Another one? Well, yeah, just calling me a harasser. Call me all this stuff. It's like, no, you're a dick, Anita. You're just being a dick. Did you find a video of her saying that there's no biological difference between the sexes and that men's strength? It'll be buried in the middle of a 30-minute diatribe. I really think that it was her now that I'm thinking about this video. Yeah, no, I've looked at it as well. Maybe she took it down or something, because I remember seeing it. I wish I'd saved it. Someone's got to save it. Someone's got to save it. Someone on the internet will be able to tweet an ass or something. But that is so hilarious because it's so contrary to biology, just actual science. Everything she says is contrary to reality. I mean, she'll sit there and she'll pick out, like, the game Hitman. In her video, she said something like, you're incentivized to kill the woman and then stuff her body in a trunk. And the footage she's using, she didn't take herself, obviously, and didn't credit whoever took it. In the footage she's using, you see, like, the guy go up and kill the girl. You see them lose points. No, that's a disincentivization. They're not incentivizing you. They're penalizing you for this, Anita. I mean, I thought, my very first video was to Anita as well. Your very first video was to her. My very first one in, like, July 2013. And the quality is fair. The quality is fair. This started off because of her. Yeah, yeah. You were inspired. Well, kind of. But there was a lot of things that kind of, you know, that were going on. I was like, you know, I feel the need to say something. But apart from the quality of being terrible, I'm bewildered at her. I listened to it the other day and I was just like, wow, I had no idea what was going on. And I was just like, look, Anita, I think you're just wrong on this. I don't think you understand, like, that there is a lot to this that you've left out. I should have said cherry picked. But, you know, and that's something that's dogged her whole career because that's all she's ever done. Her criticism is terrible and everyone knows it. Nobody likes her because she's a divisive bitch. And all she does is play the victim. She's got nothing. She has nothing. And all she does is lie. Well, let's not talk about her specifically because we're kind of beating her down here. Well, this is the thing. It's hard to think of anything genuinely good about her. That's the problem. Well, let's not talk about her. I mean, what I'm saying is about these ideas. Instead of concentrating on her as a person. What's the point? She's gone to a million times all over the Internet by everyone and their mother at this point. Well, what I want to get to, what's interesting to me is what causes them. What causes these people to group up into these weird sort of echo chambers, start reiterating things that don't really work or make sense. Like there's no biological difference between men and women, especially when it comes to strength and then the tropes about video games. So like here's the other thing. Like when that gamer gate thing happened, it was really fascinating to me that everybody wanted to absolutely lump people in one or two categories. And the two categories are people that are appalled by it and that think that sexism is abhorrent and all this stuff is terrible. And then the other people who supposedly, if you wanted some sexy images in video games, you had to be a piece of shit. Oh yeah. Then the sex negative feminist I was talking about. Well, it got into this weird category where people were like, hey, we don't want you meddling with art. And whether it's a Frank Rosetta painting. Sensoring it. Yeah, I mean, look, if you look at some of Rosetta's stuff with the girls with the bikinis and swords. I'm actually not familiar, but I mean, how? Famous fantasy artist. Oh, well, we sort of like talking about the 80s art world where they're really beautifully painted. It's like these oiled barbarians. Exactly. It's a celebration of the human physique. Perfect Zenith. Yes. Yes. It's all Robert E. Howard's books on Conan and Rosetta was like the most famous of the. Yeah, it was. But it's very cartoonish depictions of women, you know, like with giant tits and blood all over the place. It's it's it's fun. It doesn't make you hate women. That's what's gross. Like just like looking at Fabio on the cover of a romance novel doesn't mean you hate men. Yeah. In fact, it seems you're kind of lionizing. Look, this is this is the perfect depiction of what the artist wanted. See, like a man look like in a huge rippling hero carrying the maiden or whatever. But it becomes this weird thing when it's a man. People don't have a problem with it. No one says that it demonizes the male figure and that you know, that you have set these unnatural standards. So you fucked with the self-esteem of all these young men. But you absolutely have. And the same way you do it with women like body shaming or, you know, having ridiculous standards for bodies for females that works with men, too. It's the same thing. Yeah, of course, but they they don't care because feminists dichotomize the world as women being oppressed and men the oppressors. And it's OK to hate your oppressor. That's that's the that's the root of all feminist thought. But that's why I want to talk about this in terms of the ideas, because I think it's kind of the same thing as the right versus the left. And I think it's all like a symptom of human psychology. The right versus the left is tribalism. It is tribalism, but so is female versus male. It's these. When you look at this blind allegiance towards anyone with a vagina, it's very similar to someone who has blind allegiance to anyone who's in a red state. Yeah. This VidCon thing that you went to, who puts this together? Hank and John Green. And who are they? The Vlogbrothers. They're famous YouTubers. And I find it very interesting when Anita was calling me a shithead and garbage human, that's a direct violation of that code of conduct. And did they do anything about it? No, because she's a feminist because she's a woman. Oh, because she gets special. She's because she's an esachism. Why does she get special treatment? Because at this point, she's basically become the avatar of feminism. If she fails, I swear to God. I mean, is she respected in that world? No, not everyone hates her. Why do they still prop her up? Because she's an esachism. If she goes down... That doesn't make any sense. I know. Well, there's a mythos that's built up around her. It's a good word. Yes. And they've all propped her up. They've all propped her up. They've all said good things about her. They've all defended her. And if it turns out that she is in fact an abuser, which she did, according to the VidCon code of conduct... What is the code of conduct? Oh, I can't remember it, but verbatim. But I read it out in a video. It's one of my latest videos. It was just a quick message to Hank and John Green. And I know that thousands of people emailed them saying, hey, look, she did violate your code of conduct from a position of institutional privilege at VidCon. She was on the panel. I didn't have a microphone. She had a microphone. She's calling me names. She's accusing me of things that aren't true. And she was doing that while you were in the audience. Directly. Looking me in the eye. And it was like, okay, that's fine. But that's not right. And they've done nothing. They have done nothing. They've said nothing. Did you talk to them about it? And then afterwards, all I got from her fans, and I mean like, you know, hundreds and hundreds of messages, and I've just retweeted them all night, with exactly the same language she uses when she's displaying, oh, look at the nasty messages I'm getting, of people calling me a garbage human, which is what she called me. And so she has done absolutely nothing different. And so I said, right, Hank and John, she's violated your code of conduct. Her fans, she's incited a cyber mob of harassers, exactly as she claims I do, but she has actually done this. Then on the Saturday, she was due to be on a panel about cyber harassment. See, but it can't be harassment when she's a woman and you're a man because you are the oppressor. So it's the same thing as racism, like a black person being racist against a white person. Yeah. It's impossible. The only reason to do this then, to not take no action, is if you are highly ideological. And interestingly, you've seen... So you feel like they're highly ideological. Oh yeah, incredibly biased. But why are they, if they're YouTube stars, I mean, aren't they like, don't they understand? They're very progressive. Very progressive. But you're fairly progressive too. No, I'm a liberal. I'm not progressive. But what is the difference between a liberal and progressive? A liberal one's quality of opportunity, a progressive one's quality of outcome. Quality of out...