Joe Rogan - Shirley Manson on the Pitfalls of Success

Hello freak bitches. I spend my life baffled though that's okay. I just go with it now. Good for you. It's okay to be baffled. Good for you. That is a good way to approach it. Yeah, I mean it's made me happier I'll tell you that. It's definitely happier than trying to control everything. Yeah. A lot of people that go down that rabbit hole, that's not a good rabbit hole to go down. No, but I think controlling things are, it's fear driven right? Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely a lot of it. I think I'm too old to be fearful I think. Really? Yeah. Yeah? But you're like a, see there's a certain thing that happens to people in show business when they get to a certain age. Either they feel like it's slipping away or they feel comfortable. You seem like a comfortable person. Yeah, I'm a comfortable person. Well, kind of. Kind of? Yeah. What's uncomfortable? I'm uncomfortable about a lot of things. Let's get into it. You got there already Joe, yeah man, that's impressive. Sorry. You're fast. I can't pull your guard by giving you something really beneath me first. Oh, I see. And then you come in and just... Yeah, you don't even know what's coming. A quick blow to the left inside of it. No, I'm uncomfortable about a lot of things, but I hear what you're saying. And yeah, I feel like maybe if you feel like you've failed and then you've stepped back up, then you either crumble and you can't build your life back up or you find a place to stand and you build your career again on your own terms and then it is comfortable. Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying. That's where you're at? That's what I'm saying. But you never failed. I felt I did. Really? How? Yeah. Well, we in the 90s were so much a sort of pop cultural zeiguist, I guess. And that can't last forever. But when it stops, I should speak for myself, when it stopped, it was dizzying for me. I didn't really know what to do with myself. I didn't really understand my identity. I didn't know who I was. Because it was such a ride? Because it was such a crazy ride and I identified with myself as a successful person and my idea of success was really warped. So your idea of success was commercial success? Correct. Yeah. Did you take any comfort in the artistic success? I did eventually, but at the time I felt like we were being creatively adventurous and we were getting punished for it and it made me really angry. So you feel like, were you getting published? Was it the publishers, the music publishers that were punishing you? No, it wasn't even that person, although I took it personally. It was really much more a cultural shift. So it just wasn't received as well. Correct. You are correct, sir. Yeah. And so we'd been used to being on top of the charts, and then when that stops, all of a sudden you're like, well, is everything we're doing, all our ideas rubbish? Boo. And deep down you know they're not, but you're being rejected anyway. And so you have to find a way through that and that's complicated, I think. Or it was complicated for a simple girl like me. Well, I would imagine any time you were as big as garbage was in the 90s, I mean, you guys were gigantic. I mean, it was hard to go into a clothing store without hearing your music blaring. Yeah. It was mad. It was crazy. It was mad, yeah. I'm a huge fan. I love you guys. Oh, thank you. So it's kind of weird sitting across from you. It's quite nice though, isn't it? It is. It was nice. I'm enjoying myself. You seem to be. Yeah. But I would imagine that as big as you guys were, you either stay that big and then you become a crazy person. You probably better off doing what you did, like taking artistic chances, settling in, and then doing what you're doing now, being more comfortable. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, we were lucky we had a manager, a very wise manager at Key Prime Management at the time, who said, what do you want? Do you want a long career at a lower level or do you want a short career at a ridiculously high level? And we were like, we want the long career. And that's exactly what we got in the end. But there was this mad blip that happened for alternative music, which had never gotten really that much pop cultural success, I guess. We enjoyed this weird rush of alternative music that for a blip ruled the charts. If you weren't an alt band, you were a nothing band. Yeah, you guys caught that wave, that post Nirvana wave. That's really what it was, right? Yeah. I would love to talk to Chris Cornell. Remember when Chris Cornell did those pop music songs? Like he went from Soundgarden to this like deep, crazy, dark band to... Yeah, that's true. Like weird, poppy music. Yeah, sort of softer. I'm sure he was just trying to figure out a way to survive like we all do. And it's complicated for anybody with a career, yourself included, you have to adapt and figure out, well, OK, where does step two now? Yeah. It's weird. Well, I think ultimately what you got to figure out is what do you like? Yeah. It's hard to know what you like sometimes, no? Sure, because if you don't like something, but it's super successful for you, then you might keep doing that. That's very confusing. Yeah, surely. My goodness, we're getting deep here. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.