Joe Rogan on TJ Dillashaw Testing Positive for EPO

Yeah, that's a whole another T.J. thing is a bummer. That's a bummer. If you don't know what we're talking about, T.J. Dilshaw tested positive for injectable EPO, which is a serious performance-enhancing substance. And in some circumstances, according to Jeff Nowitzki, it's given people strokes. And I had heard this too, that young guys doing Tour de France type shit would have strokes because they were taking too much EPO. Because you know, like if you're supposed to take one, take two, fuck it, repeat everybody. That's some intelligence. That's some intelligence. Anybody who's going to do that, yeah, you know. That shit turns your blood to paint. And I think that's, I guess that's probably the discipline, right, of how people were always getting away with things beforehand, right, is to try to maybe try to do it in a way where they won't get caught. But I think that's like, oh, if this much is good, then this much more is going to be better. Yeah, and we know guys who've done that with TRT. There was a few TRT tests where they, when TRT was legal, testosterone replacement therapy, where you would hear about guys testing like 1400s, 1470, which is insane. It's like superhuman. No person's ever lived that has 1400, like as a natural walking around testosterone level. It's just a hyperhuman, but they just get these benefits from that. Well, some of these people though, who walk around naturally, I wonder if they've never been tested though. That's true. Yeah. Some of these people I see walking around like- Genetic freaks. Yeah, that dude looks like he was born on steroids. Yeah, there are some freaks, man. There's some legit genetic freaks. To deny that would be crazy. There's some people that just like, yo, Al Romero, I mean, what in the fuck? It doesn't matter how many steroids you take. It doesn't matter what you do. To look like that, you have to be a genetic freak. Yeah, and they're out there. They're walking around. It's not fair. Yo, Al was talking about, he was saying, go to Cuba. He was like, go see the genes. Go see the genes. Go to Cuba. Look around. Yeah, what's his name? Who was it? Fighter from France, the heavyweight from France. I mean, he was- Francis Nganu? Well, yeah. Francis Nganu was a guy who used to be the one who had the crazy fat with Pat Barry Oh, check Congo. Check Congo, man. Oh, yeah. Adonis. Yeah. Sculpted Greek statue. Yeah. I always imagine like, I want to go to where he comes from. Let's just take a look around. Probably super athletes. Yeah. Probably a lot of meteors. The TJ thing, apparently they went and tested his old fight piss with Cody too. And that tested positive for EPO as well. And then Cody started freaking out. Yeah, that's right. What do you do if they go back? Like, what if they decide to go back, hey, and say, fuck it, let's test all the fights. And it finds out that he was doing it like five, six, seven fights. What do you do? Well, yeah. And then what do you do if you- but then it's a whole other can of worms too, because like all the fights and then what about all the- because- Right. Like, are we going to test everybody? Yeah. Brandon Schaub and I were joking around last night and I was like, test them all. And he was going, no. I'm going to test them all, test everything. Let's find out. Let's know what it was. Let's know what it was. And he was like, what if they had piss samples from, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago? Like what- if they could use USADA style testing today on people from the past. I'm so glad that all these things are above my pay grade. Yeah, you don't have to deal with that. Yeah. Yeah, man, if I was the guys in the office right now in charge of that program, I would say, you have to really wonder where is the line. You certainly want to test a guy for a fight that happened a week ago. You certainly want to hold, you know, and check if some new testing methods come out. If there was a fight from a year ago, you certainly would check that. How many years back do you go though? Yeah. Especially if it's not expensive. Like what if it's easy and cheap to do a test? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you just run 500 tests on the last 500 championship fights and then you have like 400 fights that you now have to like change the result of. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Last night I was joking around. I was saying test them all. I was taking the fun position. Test them all. I don't know, man. I mean, look, we all know at one point in time, performance enhancing drugs were a huge part of mixed martial arts and that's why the UFC stepped up and decided to institute this program. I think it's a big part of professional sports in general. Sure. 100%. Yeah. And I think that combat sports has a government oversight that other sports don't have. So I think that we're going to be, it's going to be coming up regardless anyway. So I think maybe that's why the UFC took a position, right? Because I think of the other sports, I mean, guys get caught doing things, but a lot of the other sports regulate themselves, right? Yeah. I don't know. The NFL regulates itself. What other sport has a government body like an athletic commission saying, hey, we're going to show up and do this or do that? I don't know. What do they do with baseball? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I don't know. I don't know much about other sports, but I didn't, I've never heard of, I've never heard of like a, we all know about, you know, that's something different in our sport is that the government's involved. Well, they should have a commission, not like he's saying a government commission, but they did. Yeah. They're governing themselves. The NFL would have a vote. They hand down a suspension. They're not fair from this, this guy's suspension to that guy's suspension and baseball. They have like a three strike rule. The first time is like somewhere in the 10 to 25 game range. And then the second one is like half the season, third one got for a whole year. And if you do it again, you're banned. Yeah, but there's no outside government body, right? Who shows up and decides to test your champion, right? Just the baseball or NFL or basketball. Right. What's the, So you have a big money maker in your sport and then somebody outside of your company just comes along and says, yeah, I'm, I'm a government body. I have the right to test this guy. Yeah. Like what happened with John Jones? Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a perfect example. I mean, the UFC did not want John Jones to test positive. He is the biggest star right now, other than Connor and Connor's not active and John Jones is fighting all the time. He wants to fight all the time that if that's, but that's the only way you ever find out what's really going on is you hire a bunch of werewolves and they just let them loose. Right. Go check pests. Go, go out there. Check, check everyone. They checked the shit out of people. I was looking at this list of people that Holly Holmes been tested more than like, I think, I think Novitski might've put it. Oh, Steve Amyocheck tweeted it because he'd been tested 38 times. Really? Yeah. Some people it's like in the forties, Chris Cyborg got tested a lot. Yeah. Holly home got tested a lot. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. Holly home got tested a lot. A lot of people got tested. Um, it's just, uh, crazy numbers and a lot of them, I guarantee they're waking them up. Yeah. Get them up like six in the morning. That's what, that's what I've heard. I mean, I don't know what they go, but I've heard conversations a little bit. It doesn't seem like it's, they want to make sure you're there so that you get there really early in the morning and fucked up. You're supposed to tell them where you're supposed to, where you're going to be at and think, yeah, yeah. The problem is if you're training hard, that eight to 10 is so huge. You might get hit with a punch. If they wake you up after like six hours or five hours, it's possible that a punch might connect on you that wouldn't have connected if you got eight. That's not the issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's real. That's real. That's real. Everybody knows when you, how you feel good in the gym and everybody, even if you just lift weights, there's days you feel good. There's days you feel like crap. I make sure I showed up here well rested. You look well rested. And I'm hydrated. I'm like, we get back to make. I did. I did hydrate. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's just, it's, it's just not smart to stop athletes in the middle of their training camp and wake them up. Yeah. I mean, I get the testing, but I feel like the testing is so sophisticated. You could get to them at noon. Okay. Just you could get to them at noon. You got good testing now. Just, but we don't, we, I mean, I don't know that. I don't know that either. I'm talking shit. Yeah. Because I think the best time, right? The best time is that, you know, maybe the earliest, earlier, the better, right? Maybe I don't know. The thing about this EPO apparently, and this is a, a Shah was telling me was that they didn't, it didn't used to be a detectable the way it is now. They've got these new methods of detection and, uh, EPO is one too that apparently from what I've read, don't listen to me. I'm not a doctor. They can absolutely tell that you injected it. It's a, it's injectable. It comes in the injectable form. That's what's in the body. So there's no chance of a tainted steth or tainted, uh, supplement. Right. Right. It's definitely EPO. So that's, that's fucked up because apparently that stuff has a giant advantage. Um, it gives you an anabolic advantage and also gives you crazy recuperative powers. So like you could train really hard and then be ready to go the next day. What do you think the answer is? Because like for me, like this is all stuff that like, to be honest, I don't really, uh, pay that much attention to it because I don't have, I also, it's out of my wheelhouse to deal with, but also it's hard to have an answer. Like you said, it's like, do we go back and keep testing them when these new things come resist? What do we do with the history books? Oh yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's very interesting. You know, what do you do with the history books? That's, that's what you would say. Like at what point if, if you have samples that date back 10 years, do you do test them all? What do you do? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's just, but if you find out that TJ tested positive for the Cody fight too, well, Cody sure has an argument there. And what if it's the fight before that, what if there's a lot of, a lot of people who have arguments? Yeah, there's a lot of guys. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's tough to me. It's a shame too. Cause I'm a TJ fan and I think he's a phenomenal fighter and I'm, I'm a big fan of watching him. But just it taints his legacy. It just does. There's no way around it. When, when you get caught cheating, which is this stuff is, there's no way it's not cheating. I mean, this is just cheating, right? I mean, this isn't any accident. It's, it taints your legacy, right? The guy had an amazing legacy, you know, two time bantamweight champion, one of the best champions in the world. And I think that's, that's the best thing I've ever seen. I mean, I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. I mean, I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. 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And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. And I think that's the best thing I've ever seen. I almost want to try it. You know, they say that these executives are trying it. They're doing EPO and entering into triathlons and shit like that. For bragging rights. Yeah, just assholes. Assholes with money are taking EPO. Like really, I was reading the thing about an epidemic of... Really it boosts you that much. Like, okay, you're going to take it and you're going to notice that you're able to like... Like the other day, you could barely finish a loop around the Rose Bowl, a three mile loop, and then you start taking it and you can get what, five, six miles in? I wonder. I wonder. I think what it does is it raises your threshold if you're already an elite endurance athlete too. I think for them, that's what it is. It's like they're already looking for that extra edge. So they're already an elite endurance athlete. They're already in the Tour de France. And they take that EPO and it's like, whaaat? Just jacks them up. They could just do more work. They have more oxygen. They don't run out of juice. I mean, I feel like TJ, his style is so kinetic. There's so much movement, explosion, so much juice dances. Like he needs that juice. It's not like a calm, easy game where he's, you know, everything's fast, fast, fast, fast, fast. It's crazy. It's hard. It's a hard one to swallow. Yeah, man. So for me, like I was like, man, I was going to come on Joe Rogan's show and see what was he... could he talk about to make me uncomfortable to talk about? Man, I have to talk about some hard stoppages. Give me what's the worst one. Let me talk about when I made a mistake. I don't want to talk about this. I'm just being... because I have no answer for it. I don't understand that. It's like, all I wanted, like, it just doesn't feel like a good conversation because all I could do is just, it just gets, like you said, it's just going to take away from what I've seen of Az and then the more I imagine about it, it's just going to be more take away. And then anything I could say or think about, I can't think of anything that's solution or... Yeah, I don't think anybody... I think we're in this stage right now where they're probably looking at the data going, okay, what is this signify and how many more people should we test? Once they develop a new method of testing, that's the whole reason why they want to keep the old samples anyway, in case new, more sensitive methods of detecting are invented. And you know about this stuff because I know that you're a science freak and you're a science... You're the same nerd. You can call it a dork. Dork. Especially when it comes to anything that can enhance this life that we have on this earth. So, yeah, I'm sure you know a lot about this stuff. Well, I've had a really amazing conversation with many people about it. And David Sinclair was one of the more recent ones who did this discussion about life extension and different anti-aging solutions and different things that they're coming up with. But what I've come through with is, at the end of the list, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people that are involved in either legitimate supplements or legitimate molecules or testing hormones on people or trying all these different things to try to figure out how to get the body to perform better. Some of them are legal and some of them are illegal. And that's where it gets strange. You get the guy like the ball co guy, Victor Conte comes along and he's like, look, I got one. Just rub it on. No one's going to know shit. They don't even know what this stuff is yet. And for a while, that worked. But while it worked, everybody's like, hmm, why is Barry Bonds getting so big? People just started wrecking like, come on, man. Look at me, Sami Sosa. Look at me in the eye. What are you doing? And they all exhibited these obvious physiological changes where you could tell that whatever they were doing was really effective stuff. There's hundreds of thousands of people working on that right now all the time. At all times. Trying to get it better. There's probably thousands of people that are trying to come up with stuff that sneaks past this testing.