Joe Rogan on the Aziz Ansari Story

And I think we're, and also I think one of the things that's going on, this is one of the things that's empowered the women's movement and empowered a lot of other movements is access to information. It's radical, it's happening so fast, and it's inundating us, and we have to catch up to it. It's like it's happening so goddamn quickly that we're just trying to, okay, what is okay now? What's not okay now? What can we do? What can we not do? And access to each other. And 10 women all assaulted by the same man, been able to meet each other. How else would we run into it? The grocery store? Hey, were you assaulted by that guy by any chance? Like we're able to find each other online. Jamie, were you talking about Steve Carell in The Office? Was it you that was talking about that? Yeah. What about? You watched the old episodes of The Office, which is not that long ago. He was such a creep. You can't really do that today. That's amazing. But he was kind of like bumbling, you know, like silly, hapless. I didn't watch the show. So what was the difference? It was, I think, the purse episode where a girl shows up to sell purses and he just makes a big to-do. You can have the conference room and guess what? I just got this espresso maker. Don't make me give it to you because I won't. Oh, do you need a ride home? I give you a ride home. But did it feel creepy or did it feel? The ride home thing was a very particular creepy thing based off today's world. Right. And I think that, like, what I know about the English version, I don't know what the intention was for the American version. The idea was to make him kind of polarizing and it makes you uncomfortable. And he, you know, it's crazy that it wasn't that long ago. Yeah, it was long ago. But it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's interesting because so much of this is almost it's because it's so intangible. It's hard to explain. And I think this is why a lot of guys are getting annoyed because when you get granular about it, it makes us seem like we're just being crazy because so it's like you hug me at the comedy store and it feels different than when let's call him Joe Blow hugs me. There's just something creepy about Joe Blow and there's something not creepy about you. And I can't explain it and I can't tell you why. And I sound crazy and manic and history. That doesn't sound because that's the same way with gay guys. There's certain gay guys that hug me where it's creepy. There's certain gay guys that hug me. I don't want to out anybody, but there's certain guys that hug me. I'm like, what's up? I give them a hug and it's all just warm and friendly and it's cool. It doesn't matter if they're gay or not. But then there's other guys that they hang on to me a little or they'll squeeze my back a little and just get these a little extra going on. I'm like, okay. And I think that that's what like females are kind of trying to sort of say with the more granular stuff and with the Aziz story and stuff. It's like, I know it sounds like I'm being crazy, but I promise there's something fucking creepy about it. And I know that I don't have proof and I don't have photo evidence, but I'm, but in the more I talk about it, the crazier I sound. But I think that that is just making me, the Steve Carl thing is making me think it's like a hug that lasts a little too long. I had a guy once in an office. Right. But don't you think the Aziz story is like, look, you don't have to try to tank a guy's life from a bad date. It seems like you both ate, ate each other out and went down on each other. And it's like, it sounds like it sucked, but then you're anonymous and then you're, you're 22 or 23. Like this is like poor judgment and cruelty. There's a lot of cruelty involved too. Like somebody described it as revenge porn. For women. Yeah. It's our version of revenge porn. This is not, these are not comparable crimes to like what we've been discussing. And I don't know if, and I can't speak to saying who's guilty and all that sort of, I don't know what happened. I don't think there's enough information, but I don't think that, that this person is coming forward, equating it to rape. I think women know that there's different echelons. There's rape, there's harassment. But they call it sexual assault. Assault. I mean, look, I don't know enough about it. I don't know enough about it either. And none of us were there. But like I do know in my twenties, I'm not saying Aziz is guilty again, I don't know. But in my twenties, I had a lot of sex that I felt I was coerced into that was transactional sex that I didn't want to have, you know, and this is something we talk about in the female brain movie is that men are less able to read cues, emotional cues on faces than women are. How does that work? So apparently, so we have evolved to cry four times more easily because men have a harder time reading emotional cues on faces. Wow. That's why women cry easier. And so we cry easier because men are designed to sort of like see movement and to hunt and to write. You're not designed to sort of read like, oh, is she frustrated or angry? You know, like, have you ever been on a double date with your wife? And like you think that her and the other I can't imagine you on a double date. That's so weird thinking about it. I've done those things really in the very early stages. I've done them recently. But if you're really annoying, yeah. And you go on a double date and like you have to fucking talk to the guy and he's asking you a million questions about hunting and you're like, just listen to my podcast. I have to fucking do this for free. And then your wife is talking to the other girl and you think it's going well. And the girl gets the car and you're like, well, that went well. And you're like, she was such a bitch. I couldn't fucking stand her. And you're like, it seemed like you guys got along great. You know, like, has that ever happened to you? My wife's not like that. Okay. She's just like, she just had it. She just talks. And she's not like if she if she thought something was bad, she would let everybody know. Like right away. Well, she would just it'd be obvious. Or just just sort of like sometimes there's like basically and we talk about the movie is like it's just men are not as good at reading emotions on faces. So it's like if you were to say like Whitney, how are you? And I was like, I'm fine. You might just be like, okay, she's fine. Let's move on. A lot of guys can't understand that there's a discrepancy between what I'm saying and how I'm saying it. And it's like about just reading like how muscles move on on human faces. So it's like you can look up sort of the difference. And you know, so I'm not defending men in that area. I think that that an interesting conversation that might come up at some point is people who have autism are really going to be fucked in all of this. People who can't pick up on social cues because so much of this is nonverbal. I fear that we're going to get to a place where we're going to have to like sign contracts and shit before we have sex and stuff. Because you know, I know that in my 20s and I'm freezing up just talking about it is that when men made physical advances to me, I would be giving off these nonverbal cues. And I wasn't saying no, but my body was saying no. And I'm not saying it's necessarily a guy is supposed to like be able to read my body language. But that's what was happening because I froze up because of my trauma response. And I was scared. And also we are conditioned to be submissive to men. I am conditioned to feel shame if I don't fuck a guy in a certain amount of time. I spent a lot of time. I thought it was the opposite. I thought you would feel shame if you fucked a guy too quickly. If you fuck a guy on the first date, you feel shame. But if you there's this sort of like unspoken rule that you like kind of have to fuck a guy on the third date. What? Yeah. Oh, totally. Am I? Do you not think that? Jamie's never heard of this either. I feel like guilt and shame and I'm difficult and I'm approved and I'm like, I would ever just be you. Yeah, this might just be me. But like every I mean, every girl that I know that I maybe it's just my generation or something. Every guy out there is like, Oh, I gotta do is just get three dates in and we're in. But think about all think about negotiation. So just the just the tip is like something we joke about, right? But it is based in the idea of negotiating for sex. So if someone is starting to say just the tip, that means I've already said no. And you're like, well, come on, how about just a blowjob? And then I'm like, no, just come on. Just the tip. It's like we joke about it, but that means that a negotiation is going on. And then I've already said no. And then you just get worn down. And that's like transactional sex, which I think women are kind of just I won't generalize about all women. But I think some women are like sort of like I don't want to have that kind of transactional sex anymore. And like, like I feel like I'm being used as a blowup doll. And I think from what I understand that girl felt is she felt like she was like rushed through dinner and like went back and was just sort of expected to be fucked. And I think a lot of what's happening is that men were promised something from porn and women were promised something from romantic comedies. Men were promised that women like wanted all the time. And women have been promised that men like want to talk to us. And I think these expectations are clashing. So I think it's a little bit of nature and a little bit of nurture. So a lot of it being media misrepresentations of actual relationships. And that's the models that people are acting on. Maybe. Yeah. I think it's different for every person because every person has a different experience with sex. Everyone has a different ability to read faces. Everyone has a different nature and nurture. Everyone had different fucking parenting. And then there's a problem with like sometimes you really shouldn't be with that person and you're there. Yeah. And you're there. And what do you do? What do you do? I mean, I've literally had sex before just to like get out of there. You're just like, oh, God, I don't want to argue with this person right now. But I feel like this person feels entitled to my body and I feel shame and I'm embarrassed and like it's just all this stuff that's really kind of hard to explain. And I think it probably is annoying to the guy. And I just like I don't want to be difficult. And I've been so gaslit to believe that I'm difficult. It just gets like really messy. And then by the time you figure it out, you've already had sex. And you're just like, oh, fuck, can I have my parking pass back? This is part of just being a human and trying to navigate your way through the fucking treacherous waters of just social interaction, sexual interactions. I didn't figure it out until I was 32 years old. I wasn't able to like articulate or figure out whether I actually want to be having sex or not. So like my advice to all my guy friends is do not have sex with girls that are under 30 because like I could not. I didn't have the ability to even know or say what I wanted until I was like 30. But for men, a lot of men feel like if you have sex with a girl who's under 30, then it's fun and you can have fun. But if you have sex with a girl who's over 30, they're biological. She wants kids. She's ticking. Maybe. I've roast my eggs. I've got time. My shit's on ice. They're pressuring you into this relationship very quickly. What's your intentions? Where is this going? I want to know how we stand. What are we? Block that bitch. Blocker, find another one. There's Tinder. You can find plenty of women in their 30s. But what if you like her? What if you like her? You just wanted to calm down. You just want to go, let's work this out. I mean, look, we're going to have to like start talking to each other, I guess, and like setting expectations. I know. That sounds like a nightmare, doesn't it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.