Joe Rogan - Matt Brown on Starting Out in MMA

And I was kind of, I grew up in a machine shop. My dad was a machinist, so I was doing that from like five years old. I was sweeping the fucking floor. And I was like, I was like, man, this is not what I'm meant to be. Like I'm supposed to be something great, but everybody around me is like, no, this is what you do. You live in this little town and you do, you follow the rules. You're gonna be a machinist or a farmer or whatever. And that shit pissed me off. And I never really found my niche. So I was homeschooled actually for, I think two years in junior high. So I think that was sort of actually the start because I went back to school. And when I went back to school, I was now the outsider. I didn't have any friends. And then going up, all of a sudden I'm in high school and I have no friends. I have no, I can't get laid for shit. I think that's what causes anger in a lot of people in the world, right? Oh yeah, and depression. Yeah, yeah. That's a big factor. Yeah, and at the exact same time, I'm starting to experiment with drugs and alcohol. So you put the two together, I was supposed to be the prodigal son. Like I was very intelligent. I was doing things by the time I was 15 years old in the machine shop, that guys, they've been working for my father for 10, 15 years, couldn't do. So I was sort of this prodigal son. I was good at athletics and everything. Had no problem with all that stuff. So I think it was just sort of a backlash and then I let that anger get the best of me. So now when you were doing drugs and alcohol, what were the drugs? Like what was the drug that caused you to overdose? Heroin, an injection. That's deep when you're injecting it. That's when you're all in, baby. Yeah, and I didn't actually do it a whole lot. It's kind of the funny thing. A lot of people thought that I was addicted to heroin and I wasn't. I think that was probably the fifth time that I did it. Maybe six, something like that. I didn't count. That was sort of my, that was my step into the dark side. A blessing and a curse, man. It immediately, I was like, oh, okay, that's what can happen. It's the step back. And I was very naive, very, man, I was a fool really. Because what I did, I remember leaving the hospital. I was like, okay, well, I'm never doing heroin again, but let's go do some coke. You know? You know? Right? So I was just a dummy, man. Why hold me? I think I was 21, 22. One of those, I mean, I was like 15 years ago. There's a lot of stuff I, I was actually kind of thinking about, so again, you know, on this podcast, I was like, I was like, you know, this is probably gonna come up on it. It's a pretty intense story. I was like, damn, I can't remember all the details of that. It was like a long time ago, but. Anyway, yeah, so I was like 21, 22, and it wasn't too much long later. You know, I lived with this girl, and she was a drug addict too, and she had a couple kids, and it was like, all right, well, now I got a place to live, let's get fucked up. You know, and it was, I never did heroin again after that, obviously. I think I did oxyzo, Percocet, stuff like that. Oxyzo's basically the same thing, right? Which I mean, I didn't realize it at the time. But really, my drug of choice was meth back in that day. That was what I really liked. That was actually what I was addicted to at one point, and I ended up going to jail, and that was what got me out of addiction. I didn't realize I was addicted until I was in jail. What made you realize it when you were in jail? I just, you know, just couldn't stop thinking about it, and just wanting it, and just, I mean, I didn't have like cold sweats or anything. I don't think that happens with uppers, but I mean, I was just, you know, like I couldn't stop thinking about it, man. I was like, dude, like just, a lot of that anger was coming out, I was just like, God, like what the fuck? Like I wanted to fight everybody. I was like, somebody give me something, you know? Wow. Yeah, it was just, it was a really terrible experience, but probably only lasted three, four days. Not even, maybe not even that. And then you came out of it. Yeah, I mean, I was just like able to accept my fate and deal with it. What does it feel like to be on the map? You ever take Adderall? No. Never taken an Adderall? No. Pretty similar to Adderall, right? Yeah, it's like Adderall. I mean, that's the closest I would say. I mean, you're high, but you don't have, I mean, it says it, euphoria, more than anything, just an extreme sense of euphoria, just everything's beautiful, but then, man, as soon as you start to lose out a little bit, you just itch for it so bad, man, so bad. Like you just want it again. You don't want to sleep. Like your teeth will be grinding. You're just like, you're just tensing up all your muscles. Like, God, well, I gotta get more of that, you know? Were you working out at all back then? No. Nothing. Well, I tell you, well, not working out like I should be. So again, I was angry. A lot of times, like I'd be at a party, this was a common thing, I'd be at like a party or just doing drugs, whatever, and I just started getting, look at everybody, like I fucking don't like none of you, and I would just walk outside and I would go for a run. I'd run five, six miles, come back, and be like, all right, give me another line or whatever. Wow. Yeah. You would run and then come back to the party? Yeah, and then sometimes I would fight people. You know, that was common, very, very common. If you call that working out. And we, like, this particular time in my life, I was living in a little town called Jamestown, Ohio, and I had this buddy. He was a friend, his cousin, well, his cousin was a fighter, and this was kind of my first foray into mixed martial arts. My first experience watching it and everything, and they would train in the grass, in the backyard. I remember watching Ken Shamrock, DVDs, or VHSs back then, leg locks. We'd go on the living room floor, like just be shit-faced drunk, and I'm lucky I didn't tear him, I ACL or anything. We're like, oh, this is what he's doing, this is how you do it. Heel hooks. Yeah, heel hooks, and I mean, I don't remember all the techniques, but I remember it was like, you know, pancreasian stuff, right? We'd just be laying there, and it was always a thought of like, like, dude, this is fucking awesome, man. Like, I could beat Tank Abbott. Like, what are you talking about? Like, what are you talking about? Like, what are you talking about? And we would joke about it, man. We would say, I remember specifically sitting there, and be like, like, dude, like, we're gonna get you a fight in the local Joe Schmo show, and then we're gonna get you up, and you're gonna go to a Pride, and then you're gonna go to the UFC. I was like, oh, cool, well, the hell yeah, let's do it. And that was, you know, it was like a joke, kind of, but that was what was in my head. That's what we were gonna do. Introduction to martial arts. Yeah. So what was your first real formal training? Like, what gym did you first? So I fought before I trained. Chip the fuck out of here. Yeah. Yeah, so. So actually, this guy that was, he was supposed to go fight Wes Sims, and his name was Fat Joe, is what we called him. He was supposed to go fight Wes Sims, Fat Sims, Wes Sims that day, and I said, yeah, let's go, man. I wanna go with you. I wanna see this shit up close, right? So we go there, and I'm doing a bunch of coke on the way, and, you know, to me, it's just gonna be a party. Like, I'm just gonna watch my dude fight. I get there, and, you know, he signs up on the table, and I was like, I was like, dude, what, is that how you, you know, that's all you gotta do? He's like, yeah, you just paid 30 bucks, and you come fight. I said, man, maybe I should do that, and then the guy, and I'm looking inside, and I see the, you know, people sitting around smoking cigars, like you see on a movie. People smoke cigars, you see bets being made and stuff, and the guy goes, man, you wanna fight the champion? Like, nobody wants to fight him. And I was like, fuck yeah, man, I'll fight him. You kidding me? So I literally went across the street, there's a sporting goods store across the street, or down the street or something, went and bought a mouthpiece, come back, there's a restaurant across the street, boiled the mouthpiece at the restaurant, used that microwave, come back, and then we're at the fighters meeting. So the fighters meeting back then was a lot different. So it wasn't way in, it was like, you and you, you guys look about the same size. You guys doing kickboxing? Okay, you guys fight, right? So that's how the way it worked out, and I'm sitting there, and they're like, okay, you're the champion, you're fighting him. And I was like, oh shit, all right, fuck this motherfucker, right? And, you know, so I'm sitting there, and this guy, he taught me how to do a jab, he's like, man, he's like, all you gotta do to beat this guy, just jab him. He's like, you see this, just throw this jab. I was like, oh, okay, I'm gonna do that. And I went out there and I beat the guy, so he actually quit, yeah, he actually quit, you know? So he was a tough man champion, is what he was. And I actually threw a jab, punched him in the face, and he went to shoot on me. I did a playground guillotine choke, and he just quit. I don't think I actually had the choke in, I highly doubt, you know? He tapped out, saying that his calf cramped up. I have no idea, you know? Like, what really happened? I mean, I certainly didn't know a guillotine choke, I didn't even know the name of it. So, anyway, later that night, I was like, dude, like, your fight didn't go very long, you'll fight again? Yeah, whatever, man. And I said, well, this guy, you know, he's going pro in his next boxing match. You're a kickboxer, let's fight him. Said, all right, I'll fuck him up, right? You know what I did? This dude beat the shit out of me. So that was actually the first, the nice thing about that was it actually made me realize how tough I am. That was the saving grace. I mean, he just, you know, just pieced me up, just one punch after another. You know, I'm just eating punch after punch, and then, yeah, that was it. I said, man, I gotta do this shit. And then, so my second fight, I didn't think I still yet needed to train. My second fight, I met a guy at a gym, so, you know, I did go to this gym, it was a Japanese jujitsu gym, and he goes, hey, man, you wanna fight in like two weeks? And Muay Thai? Hell yeah, right? So, for two weeks, you know, I hit the bag probably for five minutes at a time, whatever, or something. I go to the fight, and, man, this is the worst part. So, I get in there, first thing a guy does comes in, shoots on me, takes me down. We're in big gloves, shin pads and all this, takes me down. I'll get up, look at the, what the fuck? He's taking me down, we can't do this, Muay Thai, right? He's like, fight, you know, comes in, takes me down again. I was like, what the fuck, man? So, I was like, okay, so we're fucking wrestling, right? So, I come out and get in sort of a wrestling stance, drop my hands, fucking kicks me in my head. So, we'll come find out later at San Shao. Not Muay Thai, Scott Sheely's show. I used to work with him a lot. San Shao, for people who don't know, was kickboxing with takedowns. I cornered Maurice Smith back in the day when Maurice was doing that once. Ah, okay. Yeah, in Burbank, I think it was. It was weird. It was confusing. It's like, okay, I mean, it's interesting, I guess. I mean, it's probably a good skill set to learn, learn how to do takedowns and throws with kickboxing, but then you just let the guy up, which is just weird. You didn't get it, huh? It was weird. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it still goes on day, San Dazs, essentially. Yeah. I think it's an amazing sport, I love it. It's amazing, and it's- Yeah, tongue-y. A lot of times it's a lot like throws in Muay Thai, because there's a lot of trips and throws in Muay Thai. It's interesting. Except you get points for the throws. Yeah. Yeah, up to five. Yeah. Another variation, yeah. Yeah, I think if their feet go above their head, it's five points. So when did you get serious? So you did this, you did two of that. So it was right after that, because he beat the shit out of me. Like, I remember walking out of there and people were looking at me like, damn, how'd you survive that, bro? I mean, and people were actually asking me that, like, dude, how'd you survive that shit? Like, I don't know. I had to go to work that night. I was like working third shift. I had to go to work right after everybody was looking at me at work, I did. You got like two black eyes? But anyway, that was when I said to myself, I want to try this. And I think this is something I really enjoy and I want to go for it. So I met this guy, his name was Eli Ayres and he was fighting in King of the Cage, one of the toughest guys I ever met, and then a guy, Braden Workman, and they were training for, it was a big show there in Columbus. I can't remember the name of the show, but I think like Lawler fought on it, like a bunch of military guys, Tim Sylvia. You know the name, if I say it, I can't remember. But anyway, yeah, and then I really got this shit kicked out on me when I got in the gym. Then I realized what a real beating was. Yeah, it just went from there, man, because I just said, I never looked back and I thought, man, I want to change my life. I wasn't never actually the type of person that fit in with the drug user scene. That wasn't me. It was just, again, an expression of anger and these things that in my childhood just kind of came out the wrong way, right? So it wasn't really like I fit in there. So at this point, I'm really not fitting in anywhere. And this was a quote that I remember where I said, I stopped trying to find yourself and start to define yourself. And I felt like the whole time I was trying to find myself. And I said, I'm gonna define who the fuck I am. I'm gonna say this is what I am and this is what I do. I'm a fighter, fuck it. Let's go, let's do or die. I've been to jail, I've been dead. I've slept in the fucking snow. You know what I mean? I've been homeless. I've done every low thing you can do. What's the worst that could happen? I get knocked out, there's nothing. So I decided this is my path and I'm gonna carve the path. I'm not gonna search for a path. I'm gonna make the path and I'm not gonna look back and I'm going to the top of that mountain. And that's something I still talk about today when I talk to people is about, I didn't have any idea how I was gonna do it, but I knew why I was gonna do it and I knew that I was gonna do it. And I think in my own personal struggles and I think in a lot of people's struggles, they kind of get caught up in the how. How am I gonna do this? How am I gonna win this fight, whatever. And I think when you understand your why, I think the how becomes a lot more clear. Yeah, more clear and easier. I mean, it doesn't matter anymore. It's better to do it 100% wrong than 50% right. Yeah. Yeah.