Joe Rogan - Henry Rollins on Being Friends with Wiliam Shatner

I'll have to come up with the rest of the names. Your manic dedication to work is very inspiring. It makes me feel like I need to work more. When you're writing all the time and doing all these things, you're one of those guys it feels like you're always with your foot on the gas. Yeah, I'm kind of furious for work. It's not what I do, but it's also what I don't do in that I don't have a family and I'm not putting it down. I don't have that. I'm just not chipped that way. I never thought of having kids. I don't have a wife. I don't have friends. Really, most of the people I know either pay a salary or a commission to. My phone doesn't ring. My old best friend from since I was 12, Ian Mackay of the Banffoogasi, he and I talk every Sunday if possible, but past that my phone usually doesn't ring unless it's an interview or Heidi going, Hey, you're late. Get over there. Is that good? It is what it is. Does it work for you? It's all I know. I've been that way since I was five. But the no friends part? Well, I'm not looking for enemies. I'm not looking for a fight. I just don't want to come over on the weekend for dinner. No? No. I don't ever have a good time at dinner with somebody? I'm just uncomfortable that I'll say the wrong thing and I just act. I look at the table full of people and go act like them. You should be friends with comics because you can't say the wrong thing because no one cares. Yeah. But then you have to, then they'll call and say, Hey, come out with us. We're going. Then you have to go. You don't have to go. I'm not going. I'd be a deadbeat friend. That's fine. I'd never want to go with anyone to do any. You don't have to. We'll look at all the phone calls. I'm safe. It sounds like you're managing expectations versus, you know, like it's doesn't sound like you don't like friends. It's just, you don't want expectations. I, you know, as it's going to get in the way. Well, also I'm just kind of moody and that, yeah, we're going to go out and do this thing. And then I don't want to see anyone to do anything until 2028. And I don't want to cancel. And so here, this is my big, besides hanging out with you, my big social thing is many, many years ago, 2003, I did a song with William Shatner, Bill Shatner on his album. And we became pals. Henry, come by the house for Monday night football. And he invited me to the house for Monday night football. He lives a few traffic lights from me. And I'm walking up the stairs to the living room where the big TV is. And I heard all this laughter and voices and I froze. And I was right at the threshold of the door and I said, turn back, turn back, turn back. I'm turning back Henry. And he saw me and I'm like, hey, Bill. I walked in and met all his really cool friends. And he, at least for me, Bill is one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life. And it's one of the oddest friendships I have in that I've been going to Bill Shatner's house every year since 2003. So what's that? 15 years. Right. And I will be there this year. I'm on his next record. He's doing another record. Oh, yeah. I did the vocal last year. Rocket man. This is it'll be fun. I'm not going to, you know, it's for him to announce it. But every great once in a while, his assistant will contact me. Hey, Bill really wants to see you. How about like next? Do you guys are you free for next Wednesday? Go meet him and the wife in the valley and go eat. I'm like, yeah. And it's great to see him and his amazing wife. And I truly value that friendship. I mean, I look forward to seeing him. I really enjoy hearing what he's up to because he was doing like five things. And it's become this thing where I really look forward to football season. I don't know much about football. I have no idea what a halfback does. They run. I think they run. I don't know. I never knew. But I like going there. And it's always the same group of people, people he's known for like 500 years and they're super nice. And I've kind of sort of known them for like 15 years. And it's so odd because I have nothing else like that really in my life. I'm just a weirdo. Just William Shachner. Yeah, it's weird. The other thing I would do once a year and sadly it ended. For a few years, I would go to Gail Zappa's birthday party on January 1st because I would play a lot of her husband's music on my radio show, Frank Zappa. And one time someone in the family wrote me and said, hey, thanks for playing dad on the show. I'm like, are you kidding? I love those records. And then Gail, the mom, the wife wrote and said, hey, thank you. And we know who you are here and we like you. I have a birthday party every January 1st. Why don't you come up to the house this year or next year? And I did. And that was like three or four years in a row I did that until Gail passed away. And you get there or whatever it is, like two in the afternoon. Two hours before, I'm genuinely nervous to go be in a room full of extraordinarily nice people with fantastically good food. And everyone was always so nice to me. And it's like a who's who you walk in. You're like, wow. It's just all these people you recognize. I'm not here to name drop. But some of the tables I sat at that thing, I'm like, really? Am I really talking to like, really fantastic? And she was always so nice to me. And like last time I was up there, one of my books is like in the living room. I'm like, wow. And when she passed away, I wrote one of the family members. I said, I am so sorry. Like thank you for the hospitality. Your mom was so great to me. And I'm kind of like the rescue dog. I'm used to being outside. So I don't come inside very often. And I went to that birthday party because just the friendliness of that, I wouldn't, as socially nerve wracking as those things are for me, I had such respect for that extension of kindness, I cannot disrespect it by not going. I wouldn't dare. The samurai in me says you do not disrespect. You must be respectful, even if it makes you nauseous with social anxiety, because I just don't know what to do. I can't say no, because it's such a nice thing to do for someone. She must not really know how I am, otherwise she never would have invited me. But things like that, out of sheer politeness and respect for someone being friendly to me, I'm kind of a pushover, just because I'm like, wow, that was so nice. I must salute that. I think it's so good that you're open about your social anxiety. And then about how you feel like being around all these people, because a lot of people on the outside, they see someone like you, you know, black flag, all your spoken word things, your books, your fucking, I mean, I always go back to that. The Liar Song, your fucking neck was like the size of my waist and you're screaming and you're painted red. And like, you're this crazy intimidating guy in a lot of ways. So to hear you talk about social anxiety and how weird you feel, and I think we all feel that. I always feel like that. I mean, it doesn't matter. I think no matter how famous you get, if you're paying attention, you're going to have an imposter syndrome. You're always going to feel like you don't belong there. If you're actually paying attention. And if you don't, you're probably delusional in some sort of a way. I wonder about the people who don't. Right. Like I never, I get to do cool stuff. Before I go into that, on your point, it's easy for me to be in front of people. That's a very different thing than being with people. I can be the party, but going to the party is difficult. Put me in front of like five people, 5,000 people, stage fright. I can't wait to be out there. You're a performer type. Yeah. Like you love that audience. They showed up. Like, are you kidding? I'm a dog with a wagging tail. I want to get out there and get it going. I can't wait. I wait the whole day on tour to get out there. The whole day is about eight o'clock, you know, stage time. Being amongst people, like going to like a gallery event, I go see a shepherd fairy thing or something. And people are super nice to me and I'm always polite back, but I'm a little nervy. But if they say, can you get up and speak for five minutes? Oh yeah, I got this. That's so strange. Well, it is strange, but it's also, it's a way to avoid being with people, be in front of them. It's a way to be in the room with people, just be the center of attention. So maybe that's coming from some kind of neediness or some deprivation as a, you know, what I didn't get as a kid. But you make a great point about that. Can you really think, well, this is where I belong? I think you lose all the fun of it. Yeah. And you turn into kind of a jerk. So every 500 years I go to one of those premieres, I get invited and you're standing, you're in a room full of tons of really good food and none of those people eat. So I just like go in there and come out nine pounds heavier, a bunch of shrimp. I just eat. But I was at a big Hollywood premiere, big movie years ago. And it's like that one, that one, that one, that one. And they're all like, ah, it is their lives. And I'm with a buddy of mine. We blagged in there and we're like, what are we doing here? This is so cool. Cause we know we shouldn't be here. And after shaking Ike Turner's hand, 10 minutes later, I'm back in my own kitchen going, that was so weird. Like what a surreal evening. And cause my friend and I were standing next to each other and he said, that looks like Ike Turner. I go, no, man, that is Ike Turner. He looked like a human barracuda. He's like terrifying. I said, let's go meet him. I'm like, come on. Like we bought a ticket. We're at the dance. Let's go talk to this guy. He's like, no, no, no, no. And I just walked right over there. I said, you invented rock and roll, rocket 88. And he went, yes, I did. He shook my hand. Wow. And I said, he first ever distorted the guitar on tape, which is kind of true. And he went, that's right. And I fluffed him up and he was all happy to meet me. And I said, hey, and here's my friend. I brought my friend over and we shook his hand and kind of stood with him for a minute and went, okay, so it's probably not going to get any better for us. So let's get out of here. And so we ate a few more handfuls of mini burritos and we bailed. But it was one of those nights where like, we weren't supposed to be in there. And if I ever lose that, then just never talk to me again, cause I'll just, my head would have disappeared up. Pardon me. And that anxiety and that insecurity is a big part of the fuel that keeps everything moving. Super fuel for me. And keeps you analyzing yourself. Yeah. And anger. Yeah. I'm mad at it. I like fighting and I'm not fighting like in a ring. For me, a lot of things are confrontation. Like tour is what you think I can't do 47 shows in 48 days. No, actually my next tour is 47 and 47. I have a day off and I have two shows a few days later in one day. So you think I can't? Well then book 20 more, like book 200 more in the winter and just give me a llama and a knife and I make every gig. Like, watch this. And that's so much of what fuels me. Like I'm going to write a challenge. Yeah. And like, I come up with these huge ideas for books. Like that's going to take me five years to write it. And it did. And I just finished it. It's going to the proofreader soon. This epic project. What is it? It's a series of music books. It's 407,000 words. What? Yeah, it's a bit much. But so am I. It is this idea. How many pages is that? I don't know. It's a lot. Thankfully it's mostly on a hard drive so we don't have to like deforest some park. But it was an idea I had. I said, okay, this is going to take a lot of years to execute this idea. And so like, watch me work seven days a week on this thing. Watch me stay up until the next day working on this thing. And a lot of what fuels me, that's what gets me into auditions. Like I think, you know, like, hey, audition for this TV show. I'm not an actor. So am I going? Yeah, I'm going. And I sit in that hallway like 20 years older than all these other people. And they got the good gym bodies on. Fantastic hair, chiseled bodies. And they all know each other. I'm like this weird old man going for the same part. The only guy not dipped in cologne. I'm like, oh man. And I go in there and I bomb. Of course, I get my parking pass validated and look, listen to Slayer on the way home. Take the lump out of my throat.