Joe Rogan Experience #908 - Leah Remini

James Wildman you understand and you're still getting late. It's crazy You are three good for you one We're live gotta change subjects. Okay, they're remedy that abandoned all that crazy talk It was it was definitely good talk First of all, it's good to see you you haven't seen you a long time. You look great. Haven't you do too? I haven't seen you since king of queens been a long time and I Found out about you know the whole Scientology I knew you were into it back then but it was one of those things where I'd Heard about it. Yeah, and then I met you. I'm like, oh, she's pretty fucking normal for a night. All right Well, I met once too and I said the same thing like pretty normal nice guy Kelly Preston is pretty normal She's normal. Yes, you know, it's I guess you get deeper get to know them really well and it might get a little weird Yes Yeah, because the thing is Scientologists are good people. They really are it's they they really as I did believed That we were doing amazing things for the world. So They go into it thinking I'm helping myself and I'm helping others, right? But then as you like you said as you get more and more And by the way, you don't really get close to Scientologists when you're a science Like you when you're not so when you're not scientists, correct? Like everything that I did and they do is for the purpose of Setting a good example being a good person being a good friend So to get you in there's a there's a purpose in that like I would never tell When I was in a non-scientologist my real problems. It would be kind of Bad for the church to ever appear human Whoa to a non-scientologist it be setting a bad example like it would actually be considered like a transgression if I told you Joe You know, oh, yeah, I'm fighting with my mother. I'm fighting with my husband Or I wouldn't ever tell you those types of things because it would be bad PR for the church Wow, so that's something that you're taught Correct now you you kind of grew up in it. Yes, how old were you when you nine? I think when my mother you don't even remember Pre-scientology a little bit and you know what I remember pre-scientology was you know, I had a very Catholic Sicilian father who you know believed in punishment believed in not talk like but did I talk to you? I don't know why you're talking to me like that kind of guy Right like my dad says at the head of the table and then we don't talk back at all or you know So that is kind of what I knew and then we were baptized as Catholics because my mother wasn't really religious My mother's Jewish she's you know, so she but she didn't have any kind of religion growing up My father of course was Catholic. So we got baptized as Catholics and The only time we really went to church was with our grandma We went to visit her and you know in the city and my dad on holidays, so that's really kind of all I remember pre-scientology and My mother meeting my stepdad he was in Scientology and he got her in as well us like right away Right away. Yes. So that was like part of the deal. Correct? Yeah, and by the way Joe like we went from like don't talk into your spoken to to Hey, we see you as spiritual beings. We want you to Talk to us. We want you to communicate like you're just you're not you're not children your You know spirits in a little body and so immediately that kind of indoctrination begins That you're not a child and so, you know as children you have kids, you know, they always want to be grown up so that that really starts to Work this kind of idea that you're an elitist that your ego becomes kind of stroked as a kid like you're very powerful and you Returned and you came back and you found yourself back You picked your mother because you knew she would get into Scientology and you're very strongly and you're very strong Nicole to my sister you picked your mother you picked your mother But this reason to find your way back to Scientology now as a child Remember you you want to be more important than you are kids are always trying to exercise their power You know, so that speaks to something inside of you that like oh, I'm bigger than a kid I'm more than a kid. I'm a spiritual being in a little body And so it sets up that kind of indoctrination very early on Did you like it because it made you when you were young? I made you feel like okay now I can express myself better That's I don't feel suppressed. Yes Exactly because you know again I'm going from a dad who tells me to you know Shut the f up and walk when I talk to you and you sit in that chair and you don't have any thoughts worth listening to To you're very much an important being you're a big being that's a word that's used a lot those words big beings You're a big being And so yes, you start to feel very important you start to feel That you're powerful. These are not bad things to make kids feel But this is the way cults work and you don't realize that Joe until you're out you don't realize any of this was really going on because I've heard people call it a cult throughout my 30 plus years and I was offended by it I was deeply offended by it and I couldn't even allow myself to believe that I was in a cult and So all these epiphanies are only happening, you know after the fact Well, I was watching a scholarly documentary once on Christianity and they were referring to it as the cult of Christianity and It's it's That word is the correct word if you want to just look at in terms of the actual literal definition of it Yeah, but when any it's automatically got this negative connotation Yes, say the word cult and people think you're brainwashed you're lost but there there's a There's a natural inclination that people have to be tribal There's a natural inclination people have to be on a team and we like it when we're all together. Yes, you know I know you're a Scientologist. I'm a Scientologist. We're together in this thing. Everybody else doesn't get it, right? Yes, that's a good feeling right? Yeah, and you're taught that yeah, it's not even just that you think it Joe You you are taught that you are the elite of the world Yeah, and by the way, you're going in every single day. It's not like I'm going I'm going Easter and I'm going Christmas You know, it's an everydayness So what did you do every day like when you say you went in like so I go do King of Queens And then after rehearsal I'd have to drive to Hollywood and put in my two and a half hours a day Two and a half hours every day. Yeah every minimum Minimum, okay, so and then if I couldn't like let's say on a tape day I couldn't you know is there from nine in the morning till ten at night as you know I'd have to make up the time on the weekends or I'd have to make up time on my hiatus So I'd be there all day and night So it would if you went to Hawaii on vacation or something very rare that Scientologists would go on vacation I'd have to make up the time I'd have to make up the time when I got back I'd have to put in on weekends like it let's say if my schedule was You know 12 to 2 30 to go in then I'd have to go in one to six or one to ten or nine So there's an everydayness of this indoctrination. It's not only that there's it's policies, right? You're studying the policies all day and all night. You're looking up words. You don't understand you're being tested Like after you read an L1 Herbert, you know, I'll run her its policy then you're tested you go into another room They go what is the definition of this? What is the definition of that? So it's it's almost worse We had a cult expert on and he said it's worse I tell his worse because you actually brainwash yourself Because you have to study The policies of the church and then you get tested on it and you have to look up that words You don't understand you have to put them in sentences. You have to write essays. You have to do clay Demonstrations so you're really brainwashing yourself and you're speaking all the same language You're all working towards one goal and that is very Intoxicate like it is to feel like you're saying to be tribal to be part of something imagine being something Part of something that you think and are told and are reading every day is the most important thing That's gonna save mankind You are doing the work that no other group is doing and so you believe that you start you want to believe that you want to believe I'm more than just an actress. I'm more than just this I'm saving the planet and now all this stuff that you're doing you're going in for two and a half hours every day Yeah, are you? Trying to move your way up the ranking system. Like I notice I'm there's a chart right, right and everybody's Start off at Well, there's like the inductor like the the little courses they're called self-improvement courses And these are the things that I people like me would say like when people would ask me about the money, right? I say well, there's courses for thirty five dollars sixty five dollars, you know, it's all It's very affordable like these these are the lines that were taught to say it's not an outright lie It's it's omitting a lot of data, right? Right because really the the next the follow-up to that is but when you're really a Scientologist gonna cost you half a million easy or Whatever it's gonna be but it's preset prices so you start on these self-improvement courses and then you get onto this actual chart called the bridge and The bridge is very precise. Nobody's doing different things You're all working at the bottom all the way up to the top Which was OT 8 that's like the most enlightened how many people are OT 8? Not a lot anymore because the people who were in Scientology in the 50s 60s and 70s who got to OT 8 Were like this is some bullshit. It wasn't what I thought it was gonna be and so a lot of them left at a time I'm sure Scientology was big because it was almost it almost spoke to The time that it was, you know when people wanted free thinking but also wanted to be Morally on the right path, you know, not doing drugs like they were, you know Maybe not part of that but they they kind of didn't want to be held by You know a certain Religion, but they did still wants virtuality in their life and I think it spoke to the people of the time So I don't think you're you're gonna find new Scientologists, you know In the world like so do you think the internet took a big chunk out of that? Yes because of the information Information was very hard to get Or oh, yeah, for example, let's say you were a Scientologist and that one day I just didn't see you and I said, hey What happened to Joe? Where's Joe? Why is he not in Scientology anymore? Oh, they they tell me whatever they want to tell me about you to discredit you He's an enemy to the church and here are the reasons why and they could say anything and they do say anything That immediately makes me not want to talk to you ever again Well, and then become an enemy really an enemy once you're an enemy. I can't actually talk to you I can't actually talk to you. The policy says that once you are declared labeled a suppressive person My association with you would then make me a suppressive person and then me an enemy so I can't actually talk to you But they could tell me whatever they want to tell me about you And so I couldn't actually find out are these things true about Joe? But now with the internet with social media, it's harder and harder to Tell people whatever you want to tell them about the person because the information is there You have to want to seek it out. I didn't seek it out I didn't want to seek it out and when I did seek it out and I go to the church They'd say that's a lie. That's not true. Here's the real data and they have actual doctored you know They actually doctor things that make you believe I mean you don't you're not gonna go and take it to an analyst You're not gonna go take it to somebody and go is this a real document? You you tend to believe the church you're you're in and raised in most of your life now It had to have been Positive in some way for you, of course it gave you some confidence It gave you a true belief in yourself and that you're on the right path Because I had seen some interviews with you where you were talking about it when you were in it And you genuinely seem to believe that it was very beneficial to you. Of course, there's basic Morals and basic tools to help you in your life, but remember I wasn't educated Most Scientologists are not educated and so you mean as far as like college education any education? Yeah I left school in the eighth grade really. Yeah, Scientology does not value a Traditional education they value your education. So you never went to high school. Never. Whoa. How old were you? I don't know how old you in high school. I don't even know eighth grade is like 13 Yeah, right So when you were 13 you just stopped going to school stop going to school and I was doing Scientology and I was working Like literally working selling car insurance and you were working at 13 Scientology companies and so was my sister holy shit, yeah, but and people ask like well, how come the Nobody did anything how come child protective services who's calling them who's saying and not to mention where we're then lying Our parents are lying saying they're getting a private education. They're getting tutored At home or they're going to a Scientology school, which is partially true Or I got my GED, you know, so I did things like that to learn to But the original question what was it because it was about? Me learning what was about wait, what was your original question because I was answer It had to be of some benefit to you It gave me confidence because I thought I was getting you know, I'm looking up these big words. I'm using a dictionary I'm like you're doing more school than you could have ever imagined even as you know, right and and you I started to feel like oh, I'm really accomplishing something. I'm So yes, there there are benefits to it, but I didn't realize because I was a kid That the things you're talking about that were beneficial were in the real world I thought they were they were invented by Elmer and Hubbard as most people do believe that so you're saying Were these things beneficial? I would have learned these things at Sunday school I would have learned these things being a good human being being around other people But regardless if I was brainwashed into believing that I was doing great things and learning great things and that does work You know, I mean, yeah, it does work if I say hey Joe if you do these steps You take these steps and you really truly believe in me You can then attribute it to Leah. You can say Leah is an amazing life coach She told me to do these things and without her I can't you know, you know I'm saying yeah But not knowing that it was available to me in the real world because I didn't I thought Elmer and Hubbard had come up with These things. Mmm. Now, when did it start to unravel for you? Well, it's a like a law. It's It wasn't just one thing. I think people always think what was the one it wasn't just one thing was a slow process It was six years of me basically, I Was like begging them for these things not to be true that I was hearing about like what was for example when I went to Tom Cruise's wedding and I saw the leader's wife wasn't there and you know, David Miscavige who's the head of the Church of Scientology His wife wasn't there and when I asked the question and I said, where is Shelley? Why is his assistant here? I Scattered people just scattered and then I was told I didn't have the effing rank to be asking about a human about the leader's wife It wasn't that she was just an average person that I didn't have the rank to ask about you didn't have the rank the rank Wow, and so That that would begin okay, that was the beginning but then when I went to my friends now when you're my friend, I consider you family like I really do I take my friends very seriously and My friends of 35 you're looking at my sexy nails right now You're what nails my sexy nails sexy nails. You do have very nice nails. You didn't use the word sexy though You said nice, you know, I'm different than other people and comes to nails apparently because I know Now when you say real, what does that mean? Are they glued on? No, they're not glued. Oh, I'm appreciating them more. Okay We're fighting out a lot about you I'd like to do a whole a couple hours with you About other things do I have to hold on to cans and you don't have to hold on cans But you do have to wear cologne because I'm not down with your non cologne wearing. Okay, you're too cute Okay, so let me get back what was I saying David Miscavige didn't have the right to question Yeah, but then seeing my friends reaction to it where I said you what you need to get involved in this I think there's something really off With what did you get going on? Well, I didn't know what was going on I saw Tom have an executive role in our church which had a problem with because remember You learn very early on what Elrond Hubbard says is the law there's no It's not up for interpretation there's no assimilation of data, it's just what it says It's not what Joe thinks Elrond Hubbard said what Leah thinks it's what it says, right? And that's very strict That's always what does Ella reach say read it again. What does it say and It's very tough. So I was very by the book person. I'm a by the book person Okay, if I have a recipe I follow it exactly. I don't do pinches and I'm doing that shit I do exactly how it says in the recipe and then I see how it goes after that Scientology is about word for word. What does it say? My understanding and the policy is there is no celebrity That should be treated any differently than any parishioner and I was seeing Behavior and I was seeing things that wouldn't be okay that are not okay for the average parishioner But we're being made to be okay for Tom and it didn't matter to me that he was Tom to me I saw him as a team member in the Church of Scientology and we were working on the same thing I actually thought I was a better example of Scientology than he was and I wrote reports on him like internal reports on him Which I didn't realize were kind of getting me to be a target for the church I didn't realize his position in the church you wrote internal reports Yes, we're all required to write reports on each other. Oh Jesus Christ. Yeah, there's a policy. There's a policy about writing reports So if I let's say you and I are scientifically, okay, you and I go out one night, right? Like not like that Joe. So don't get right. I'm saying you seem uncomfortable. No, no You did because you said nice as opposed to that you said nice. I don't know if I said nice Okay, I think I probably sexy nails he said they're nice they are nice. Yeah, they're beautiful. It's like better. Mm-hmm It's okay. If you were cologne, I feel like you'd have better adjectives. Okay, okay Like Are you a fine guy when your wife comes out as does how do I look Joe do you say fine? No, I see look great. You say great beautiful lovely. What do you want? It's very clinical. Mmm, you have kids who comes from I think different adjectives different words have different meaning depending on What person they come from and how that person with the intent behind it? Mmm, don't you think well beautiful you look beautiful No, I guess yeah, I mean evangelists as I look beautiful. Let's go back to the internal reports on Let's say you go you and I went out we were just went out one night We're going out for dinner right a group of us and something you didn't I saw you Doing something that's not like for the book. I have to write a report. I agree allowed to drink not really no Okay, what if I got lit up? I probably write a report and say it's over. Come on. Fuck it. LRH would love it Okay Yes, so that I write a report on you and I say Joe was acting inappropriate He was making fun of Al Ron Hubbard because you're not allowed to joke and degrade Al Ron Hubbard. There's a policy called jokers and degraders Joker's and graders. Yes, you and I would be very much I've been yes. Have you been in trouble for that many times? So, okay, so I would have to write a report it's called writing you up I'd have to write you up because let's say you went into like the next day For a session and you said and they said, you know, they do the check they do a check on you every day Do you have an upset do you have a present-time problem or are you withholding anything? Now if you were real-time intelligence, you would know that you probably shouldn't be drinking carrying on because of the 24-hour rule You can't drink 24 hours before you're gonna be doing a service Remember you're required to go in every day. So you never can drink right? And if you consider it a transgression, so that's on your mind that you're withholding this information Now if you went on a vacation and you knew that you were gonna make it up when you got back Yeah, that's okay. Then you can you're not going in because you're not going. Okay. Okay. That's the only time then correct Or if you're just not getting a service, but that's okay Correct. So you'd go in and you'd say Okay, so I went out last night I ordered You know a bunch of shots and I made a comment about to Elrond Hubbard or whatever and they go, okay great When was it? Who'd you do it with who was there? They write down all the names. It's also being recorded And they're writing everything down Who knew about it will be the next question who knew about it. You'd say well Leah was there they go Leah was there Okay, interesting then that person's gonna write Leah knew about it and didn't do anything about it. Then I'd get pulled in Why didn't you write a report on Joe because Joe just admitted that he was drinking carrying on and you didn't write him up Do you see I'm saying so it's it creates that kind of environment. So it's a rat environment, correct So I was I was writing up Tom and I was writing up David Miscavige So, what did you write up Tom for jumping on couches and being inappropriate? I thought he was being inappropriate jumping on couches for when he did Oprah That John for for the Battlefield Earth I thought it was for the movie itself. First of all that movie was awesome It was it's a great if you haven't seen Battlefield Earth. It's one of my favorite unintentional No, it's terrible. Yeah, but awesome because it's so terrible ridiculous. So terrible becomes good. He crosses over that you're right It does after a while. You're right. Yes. Yes, like what's that movie with the dancing one with Elizabeth Berkeley? Showgirls showgirls. Yes, that's the best one. Yeah, that's a terrible movie. Yeah, that becomes awesome. Cuz it's so bad You're like what in the fuck were they doing right? And it's fantastic Yes, I get battlefield earth is right up there, right? So I did things like that Not that I was a great example nor am I a great example, but you wrote a whole thing about him jumping up on Oprah's couch Yes, but I also listen I gave myself up by you know, I was right. I was writing myself up I was writing my mother up. I was writing my husband up Jumped up on Oprah's couch because he was in love right supposedly, you know, he jumped up, you know They pulled me in and they said, you know, could it be that you're just not as high on a scale Like in life like you're so basically they were saying like you're a bitch so you can't understand You can't understand that kind of love because I was like, right I guess cuz I've been married 20 years I don't understand jumping on a couch but I thought it was a it wasn't a good example because Because I cared so much about my church and the work that we were doing and I didn't want the church to be Seen as a joke or it's or one of its senior members, which he's considered a senior Scientologist So you just thought it was inappropriate. It was out of line Right, I mean listen, I'm not perfect. I mean, of course, there's many things that would be considered a bad example in my everyday I'm not a great example But at the time I thought I was pretty pristine but looking at it now you feel like it's totally innocuous He's just on a couch jumping around having a good time Yes, but if you knew how serious Scientology was about clearing the planet, it did not go with right our intentions and our goals So yeah I was writing him up and I was writing everybody up and I was writing everybody up at the wedding because I thought our senior Executives were and I was like wiring them back from Italy from my hotel room Calling one of my closest friends who was a Scientologist and I'm like and then I need you to write this I need you to write this verbatim I need you to write this verbatim and I need you to get this to the watchdoll committee and I think I heard you were frantic frantic because I I was frantic and I was heartbroken because it's like seeing if you believe That the sea organization and and the people at the higher, you know that are senior executive strata of your church are living a pristine and perfect life that you're trying to aspire to That you're spending your day and night and money and time like you This is what we're trying to be and I'm seeing not great examples of what this is now like it seemed behind the curtain I was like, I don't want to see this and I really thought I was gonna save the church I thought my writing reports was like I'm gonna take over the church and I'm gonna get it right by Elvin Hubbard I really still believed in the policies of Elvin Hubbard. I just believe they were bending the rules for a celebrity And I was like he's a celebrity who gives a shit what he's doing Like he's a Scientologist first and a celebrity second to me. So that's why it's difficult I don't want to talk shit about another actor because we've all met asshole actors and we're not really Supposed to be talking about them. Do you know I mean, it's just you don't hear that a lot You don't hear a lot of actors doing that to other actors. But for me, it was just a Scientologist right, so you Take out these reports on him. I write these reports. I'm sent to Florida immediately the Mecca the hub of That's right for interrogations No, and I mean like interrogations you have to fly out there I fly out there I'm In the room. I'm in a room, you know with with cameras with my person who is is armed with information unbeknownst to me of A stack of reports that were written on me by everybody who worked for Tom a stack now Found out about your report So he decided that everyone who works for him has to take out a report on you I don't know what he knew but that that is that the church is very much involved with his life. He's staffed by People who work for the church no Non-scientologist works for him, but it was if you say something bad about this person you were talking about God and you and I was asked you have sexual intentions towards him. What are your evil intentions towards him? What are your evil intentions towards David Miscavige? What are your evil intentions towards over and upward and it was three months of this it was and I had to retract everything I said I said I made it all up. I didn't see any of it To get out of there and so then when I came back To LA they said they want to see you again here in Celebrity Center So I went to Celebrity Center and they said look everything that was done to you was wrong. I was like, right I know that we just want to let it go You need to let it go because if the fact that you're not letting go means that you're guilty of the crimes that you're Saying I'm confused. They're saying that everything was wrong that was done to you in Florida Why are they saying that because they wanted me to come back because I was kind of like I'm not when I came back from Florida I was kind of not really a dedicated Scientologist anymore, but I wasn't doing anything To rock the boat with my family and how long were you in Florida for three months three months of dealing with this Three months every day for three months. I had to write apology 90 days. Uh-huh. So you're there for 90 days Tom Cruise is wearing my hiatus. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm doing most of the time and and You have a family you're married. My mother was there my daughter was there my husband was there and how much the other day? Are you spending all day all day all day every day? Did you see defending your life? No. Oh god. You have to see it What is it? It's a movie where? Meryl Streep and I forgot the other guy. Anyway, they die and they go into the you know The holding cell like you know the whole where they're gonna decide their fate are they going back to earth which is considered hell or they going on to heaven and Meryl Streep lived a pristine life and they review your life, right? Yeah, and they have judges and everything right? So they review good moments and bad moments of your life and they decide Are you gonna go on are you gonna go back to hell and Meryl Streep was of course pristine? But then the guy that you forgot just front and thing But you know They were looking at times where he didn't stick up for himself or where he pussied out of something, right? And so they were judging him pretty harshly, right? They were like you need to come back in the morning and like it was like an all day of like we're reviewing 120 days of your life right right Meryl Streep Lee they looked at like five days and they're like don't worry Just come back when you can I was that was me like my mother was there to do some fluff thing And she was like, oh come have lunch with me and my person was like be back in ten minutes Lee Go get a sandwich and eat in the elevator and you need to be back here in ten minutes It was like for me It was like defending your life because my mother was just like she had she didn't know what was going on She didn't you don't usually tell your family what you're doing. I wouldn't tell my husband. What was happening to me Because I didn't want to create. Can you imagine this? I did meet your husband in Scientology My husband was out He was never in By me, he's a scientist. Oh, you made him I made him a scientist Which is good because he was still kind of cool, you know saying so he wasn't like he was still kind of freaky a little bit You know still believed in slapping an ass once in a while So like I kind of got like good of both world best of both worlds You can't slap asses if you're in What about choking absolutely not It would be honestly you would be considered like you really there's something really wrong with you, you know, yeah Are you a slapper? No. Yeah, I didn't think so. You say things like nice. Yeah nice Anyway, so you there for 90 days. Yeah I'm not telling my family what I'm going through I'm not because I don't want to create a bad situation of the church Okay, how crazy is that? You're just like reviewing these papers. I'm admitting my crimes I'm saying maybe I do have evil and maybe I do maybe I didn't see what I saw You don't know these people right these people you're meeting with in Florida. No, they assign you a person you but you hadn't met them previously No, no, it's just some person with paperwork and they're going over your well, they have you on the meter They have you on the lie detector test. I mean on the light, you know with the can Yeah, yeah, you're in a room that's locked and that thing doesn't do anything right that you meter well, it does something I don't exactly I mean there is an actual explanation for it in the real world it's not smart enough to to retell it to you, but If I was to have a meter here and you had a thought I could show you it does register that you thought something Right, but you can't really differentiate what those thoughts are No, but as an but as someone who trains in Scientology all you're trained to do Which what I was doing I was training to administer Scientology to people Was learning to do that and I would learn to say Joe. What was that thought? What was that thought? I don't know what you're thinking but I just know that you had a thought right and so I ask you a question and then I look at the meter to see that it registered on the meter and Regardless of what you want to talk about we're only going to talk about what I see on the meter Right and then there's also it's open to suggestion right? You could say is this a moment where you had doubt is this a moment where you were angry? Yes, and then the person has to think wow was it yeah, and they start convincing you correct Well the first thing to do is they okay you need some of your disgusting coconut water or no you like that Artorias you loved it. I didn't love it. I Also didn't love your coffee drink, but I'm sure they're sponsors. I loved everything you had Joe What did what that this nitro stuff you didn't like it's all everybody everything Cream in it. There's no sugar Wow pure taste the bean you like pure like some things pure so After this 90 days of being there yeah 90 days of being stuck in this I Mean it must be like I started to believe that I was really really really messed up I would imagine too that they have probably a pretty grand establishment and clear water right it's probably Intimidating like that's how a lot of like no cults and religions like to rock it No, you didn't go to a pretty big place. It's a huge place But if you're raised in it, and you know you you're you're very familiar with it, but it is When you realize your position in the church takes a Backseat to the leader and Tom Cruise you realize really that that was scary to me because it goes against everything Everything I've been everything you'd been taught is that everyone is some sort of a spiritual being and everyone's equal And then your whole goal as Scientologists is act for the greater good of mankind and and sort of bring as many people into this as you can Because you're gonna help them right because it wasn't ever I'm gonna get somebody in because I want to screw their lives up it was always I Want to get this person in because I want them to be happy I want them to contribute to what we're doing now Is the the thought process that Tom Cruise being this huge celebrity? Worldwide figure that it's very important to keep him happy Yes, and he is probably the main goal of Scientology is to keep Tom in What our ego boost that must be for him. Oh you see That is something that that people say all the time to me like why is that pot where I'm in that ashtray Yeah, definitely no yeah, Joe. Do you know that I've never smoked pot. I should definitely try it right now I'm scared. Oh you should be why what would you start freaking out? Yeah, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, yeah Yeah, and so you just keep it dirty like that the ashtray What do you mean? Why don't you make it nice like why don't you present it in nice man? This is my man cave men. I'll give a fuck about really yeah, well Don't try to talk over me jokes, you know what I'm gonna say I Would suggest like a little tiny amount for you Cuz what he said something about gummy bears to me about you. Oh Jesus don't fuck with those gummy bears Why is it those are powerful okay? What are those are horrendous so what happened anything? Yeah, you want a journey on your life. It'll give you extreme paranoia. You'll start fun It's not but when you come out of it It's very beneficial why because you realize it's all bullshit And then you're nervous about some things that it just highlights your vulnerability. I don't eat that it takes your blinders away That doesn't sound like fun. Well, it's not necessarily that fun. Yeah, so you wouldn't do it again, or you have I can see the gummy bears to I do them all the time really you like that feeling of being yeah I think it's good for you. I think it's good to be vulnerable. That's Understand is good to be vulnerable. You're really just this finite organism. Yeah loading through infinity You know I think but I feel that way without it. Okay, well, then you don't need it I mean it's not for everybody. Oh Wow, I kind of want you to push it on me a little bit. You just gave up I think it benefits a lot of people it makes you're sensitive. It gives you a better sense of community. It makes you kinder Oh, I definitely need that. Yeah, okay, it'll make you a more I think it makes you a more loving person. I really believe that Okay back to what you think Oh make sex feel better. Oh, it's food tastes better married to a Puerto Rico They do not have sex I could say yeah, well, I shouldn't say they like I've only had sex with one of them The Celebrity We all know there's treatment different treatment right? Well, especially in Scientology, right? No, it's highlighted it is Like nothing you could ever imagine It is so when people say Tom doesn't leave because they have information on him or John That's not the reason the amount of power they receive from this church is Like nothing in Hollywood. It is like nothing There is no reason for them to leave this environment, right? So it's super beneficial for them to be attached to it. Correct. Okay as employees they work for them All these people take care of his every need Yes, and there's policy on how to Talk to somebody like you wouldn't say Like if you said go get me Go get me a coffee and I wanted this temperature There's no I can't get it. We're five miles from any, you know with 30 There would be none of that kind of talk like not any kind there's policy about Don't you don't talk back like ever you don't step out of line. You don't give an opinion You don't make a face. You don't make a gesture. You don't sigh if you step out of line in Anyway, you are dealt with by the church. So your expense essentially has servants, correct? How many people like a lot a lot a lot and by the way? I don't begrudge somebody with staff like if you can have it I go do it all day all night Do it all day all night but when you believe as a Scientologist you are working for somebody who single-handedly is saving the planet and you deserve that kind of punishment That's something different, babe. You understand what like that. That's it's an abuse that is not Justified but it is justified because you believe that you are single-handedly saving the planet Hmm Capiche. Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. So So he's the main figurehead right? He's the main guy like right up with Miss cabbage, right? And then John Travolta is somewhere in that I think John was given what a designation called cuckon Where the cunt could con not cunt Cuckon. Yeah, cuckon. Okay, hey, hey Hey, hey, hey, okay. Okay. Okay. He's given this designation of cuckon Which there's a policy that basically says you can kill another human being if you work conned you're gonna look the other way And he was given that he was given that by Elrond Hubbard. Don't make me laugh Cuz you're gonna make me pee. Come on. Make me me pee. Don't let me laugh Sometimes you work on a car Not very well, do you have any takes I ruined because it's like Kevin goes don't don't ruin this take I go I would ruin a job because he he would do some stupid shit with his hands or something that never rehearsed Cry from laughter. Yes, and he was really highly inappropriate in moments that made me Pee almost pee. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so he's a lot of kill people. Yeah one or I don't know I don't I should look at the policy again I don't want to us we get a but you're supposed to look the other way So like if somebody said something wrong to John Travolta, it's called samurai sword and cut their head off You just gotta clean up the body. He's gonna clean up my body. It's called ethics protection. Oh, okay Yeah, so everyone would be responsible for dealing with it dealing with it Yes, we just leave the room and he would know that you guys would take care of it Correct and there's also another policy and by the way The reason why I say these policies is because I don't like when people say Leah. I believe you I don't want you to believe me. I want you to look it up I want you to look for yourself and make your own decision So I keep quoting these policies because I want people to look it up So that they can say that's shit's true. She's not talking shit. You know, I mean, right? There's another policy called ethics protection. There's another policy called the responsibility the responsibility of leaders, which he actually Says exactly what you just said that Basically, you know what you got to do to protect a leader You got to do it if you see a body then you clean it up and the leader should never know I read going clear Yeah by Lawrence Wright and I watched the HBO special on it and It's it's stunning. Yeah, like when you're crazy accurate crazy accurate Yeah, I was blown away. Yeah, the book especially the book goes into great depth about how bananas Elrond Hubbard was right and it's just it's so odd to me that This all this information is out there. It isn't out there though Remember you're reading Elrond Hubbard's words from Dianetics right the book one It says the first book that we're all required to read. Everybody's required to read Everything that he's written. I read Dianetics too. I had it sent to me. Yeah, I got it I ordered it was one of those late-night infomercial things when I first moved to LA. I've always been into Self-help selling Anthony Robbins. I bought all his tapes I used to listen to it on a Walkman right back in the day and read his books. Yeah You know, so I thought it was just more of that and I got put on a list and I got sent for years I bet you I swear I'm actually willing to make a money bet that you get mail after we talk Hmm interesting. Yeah Well, I went to one of those things where you sit down and you get an e-meter and you hold the thing like I asked Your questions. Oh, yeah, I was in San Diego and I was filming something. Oh, so you saw the so they did a demonstration Did you see it read on the meter like a yeah? Well the no I don't remember a pinch test But I do remember holding on to these things and he would ask me some questions But the guy was very uninterested right he or disinterested. He just seemed like he was kind of like being forced to do it That's maybe one. He was just going through the motions. That's right. He seemed super bored. Oh, yeah So I wonder had he not been super bored. Would you be full-on right now? No, no No, I was I was doing it as a goof. It was only like ten years ago. Okay. I thought it was ridiculous Okay, I was in San Diego filming something and they had this set up. Yeah Yeah, I'm like, whoa Let me go in there right and I was just you know Hope that I could weasel in and have a seat and no right. No, I am right put on the cans and did they know No, no, I think so. I didn't give a fuck interesting. He's you know, they're very, you know, yeah Welcoming and loving because they remember they do believe in what they're doing I did right But anyway, what I was saying to you is the dianetics and dianetics, you know, Elmer and Harvard is writing that he's a scientist Right. He's you know a decorated war hero That he was a College educated and so you're not you're saying the information is out there What information other than what we're reading is out there? Well, I mean now like Lawrence writes book But no Scientologists allowed to read Lawrence writes book Mmm, it's not allowed to so they didn't the next job of insulating people if You and I were like friends friends, right and you had concern for me in Scientology And you came to me. He said Leah, I really I'm scared for you You know, I'm right I read going clear and I want to know that you're okay and you and Angie like I don't know if this is a good Thing for your daughter, you know, I would say Joe, you know me. I'm a good person Like I've been there for you your wife. Like come on, you know, I don't I don't do dry I don't do not you know, I don't steal I'm dude, right? Just respect the fact that this is something I believe is helping me. Why would you ask me to look at something? That's Anti my church or anti what I'm doing. That's how you would approach it But and you would accept it Joe you'd be like she's right. It is messed up of me to be Telling her these things when she is a good person and her and Angela great like you wouldn't You wouldn't push it. You wouldn't push it You would respect me enough because you would know me enough to go and I don't want to do that to her It's wrong. It's disrespectful. So you feel like that happens pretty much across the board Well, anybody's outside. Yes, and when I was things that's what you're trained to do. Yeah So you're working constantly with people that are not in the church, right? You're on sets you're doing how many people are gonna come up to you and say hey what I think you I think you're in Occult when you're positioned very few right because you were one of the stars of the show Right and everybody's kind of behind you would do that Tom. Very few right very few none none Yeah, none. So when he's on a set is it all like he's doing Mission Impossible or something like that Is it all Scientology employees that are constantly surrounding him? Yes, so he's got like this wall of insulation Correct and it's all Scientology people correct, but the director the writer they don't have to be Scientologists not at all No, no, but they're not they're not Invading Tom space. They're not gonna be disrespectful to their lead actor. They're not gonna go up to Tom and go Hey Tom, we don't know about our affiliation with you, right, you know and what you're doing and the Scientology thing you know, they're not gonna rock the boat they hired him as an actor right and Because of the way Tom Cruise is man, I don't know him obviously But what I get out of him is he's just super focused like very intense turned on yes intense guy Yeah And it probably benefits him having all these servants take care of all his every needs so he could focus Directly on his thing right and just go for so for him. It's probably 100% beneficial to be involved Correct because it is it is a world that's tailor-made to him And that and that is is is Scientology What a rare position? Yes It is for any human to ever find themselves in without like being like the conqueror of a country or something like that Correct, correct I mean again, I want to make the distinction between you know Listen when you gain some success in this business Thank God, you're able to surround yourself with an assistant and people to help you to to make your life easier So you could focus on your work But this is something totally different because behind closed doors you are Acting and being a different way, and you know it I know it he knows it and anybody in Scientology knows it But how is he different it is it is about the mission of Scientology so anything is justified So behind closed doors though. How is he different? It is Nothing out of line nothing Nothing that would upset him You you have to act and be a certain way around him you cannot You just can't step out of line out of the bounds of the policies of the church And you or you will be dealt with and you will be dealt with swiftly within your church and that seems to be quite abusive to me I was punished for Basically following my own policy of my church defending my church And I can't be friends with somebody who you can't be on that you can be around that you're beginning punished by your church because of it But that again that wasn't really even the reason why I left I mean I was dealing with that I was dealing with being interrogated at my expense. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars You've given them millions of dollars millions. Yes millions. That's insane and now they're they're turning around You know they have these hate websites they create on everybody within minutes. Yeah, I saw your adorable. Okay, yeah They can't really say anything you didn't do anything a lot listen I said it in my book. Okay. Yeah, all those things. Okay you even if you catch me You know in a situation or my husband it wouldn't change anything about what I'm saying It wouldn't change a damn thing. It doesn't matter their intention is to try to You know my husband sometimes sings in a salsa club You don't think they're gonna catch him what a girl somewhere dancing innocently. You know I'm saying that is yes You can do all those things you can hire PIs to follow us you can get us in situations But does that change anything they're trying to discredit you and it doesn't matter it doesn't matter because what you're saying is true Exactly, and it's not just me. I'm not saying it the other thing that bothers me is that it's become my crusade It's not my crusade. It's of my responsibility And I feel other people need to step up and take some responsibility. I don't want to be The only one saying and I don't want to be other people other actors other officials the the media They need to not make it about me get some balls and say what you really think like I was on 2020 right with Dan Harris and it's the parent company to a knee and I did the show for somebody else and and Dan Harris I said what do you think of that like what do you think of it Dan and he said I have to be impartial And I said would you be impartial about? Abuse are you impartial about this and I named a few things and he went well no and I said right okay you're being an asshole and You know the truth of matter is I do think that of of this industry I think this is like a ball this industry and there's people who have some balls like you like Adam Carolla You know there's a few people Who are in the public eye? Sorry about that who are in the public eye that have had the balls to have an opinion don't make it about me Right these things are screwed up these people's lies are being hurt and damaged and you're in your defrauding people out of millions of dollars By your abusive policies you're you make things confidential then you say these policies don't exist Why don't you say they exist there you can Google them and see that they exist well in their defense What you are is a magnet point because you are a famous person And so it makes it much easier to concentrate on the whole Situation through you right you know and because of the fact that you're a famous person because of the fact that you Lived most of your life in the church. It makes it very convenient to go through you I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing Here's what I'm saying if I say this connection is a policy right right and they say and then the next headline is Leah Remini alleges that this connection don't know I'm not alleging anything look it up right I see what you're saying look it up Right don't say that. I'm saying it. They're protecting themselves legally probably that's why It's available for anyone to see well because they probably don't want to get sued well why they get sued it's in their policies That's a good question and maybe they would say that they were misinterpreting it or Disconnection and suppressives and it says exactly what when the church labels a Suppressive person that you are only your only option is to disconnect so you have children Disconnecting from their own mothers and fathers that was one of the most disturbing aspects of your show right to see The damage that caused and see how devastated these parents were and family members were that's horrible That's really horrible and you know and you know what people say you knew the policy existed right? When you were in Scientology why you guys so surprised? We were taught a suppressive person is like an evil with horns right like Hitler right you know that you're not thinking It's my mother right my daughter But when you're get pulled in for something like this Which is what they did in the end they try to get me to disconnect from my stepfather Then they try to get my stepfather to disconnect from my mother and so they did this whole thing with your stepfather who brought you In the first place no no no this is another guy another Busy yes getting crazy yeah Yeah, she's a naughty naughty, but she's been she's been married to George my my her husband for 30 years, so Yeah, no the other guy ended up leaving us there. He got us into Scientology and then he took off oh Jesus Yeah, so talk me through your return so you go to Florida you spend three fucking months getting grilled every day Putting the pressure on you and that's been a proven tactic of interrogations that it's always questioned by People that really like look at the ethical implications of interrogation the problem is when you Put so much intention on someone about a certain thing it makes them so uncomfortable that it Changes their perception of things to the point where they're willing to admit a lot of things that may or may not be true Just to get the interrogation over. Well. That's what I did. Yeah. Yeah, I just said okay. I'm sorry So you come back I come back. I kind of like take a little bit of a hiatus From Scientology, but I'm not creating ways when you say take a hiatus. You're not doing the daily thing I'm just not going in all the time. How often are you going in then? Maybe like once every month once a month instead of every day. That's a big deal It was a big deal, then they got me back then they have a big meeting with me, and they go we want you to come back We know you're upset like that whole thing was just screwed up Let's just come back and I and I wanted specifics what was messed up I want you to tell me in writing and then you should also refund all my money that you spent that I spent Having to do this then they showed me a policy that there are no refunds And if I asked for a refund then I'm gonna get declared a suppressive person So the money that you spent going to Florida and spending three months down there That's what you wanted to refund correct. I want not money millions that you gave No, no because listen in in in their defense I don't think it's right to get your money back on something that you feel you received right a service you received Right problem that I have is science colleges of pay before you go proposition there are If not tens of thousands of people who have money sitting on account that they can't get Because they have a refund policy I can't I can't just call the church right now and say I want a refund Because they're not allowed to talk to me so it's a catch-22 So your only person that you could talk to in the church is the person who deals with refunds But they can't talk to you because you've declared an enemy to the church so they're holding Millions and millions of dollars of people's money that they can't get back because no lawyer is Going to take on the church of Scientology for free But you're talking the average guy who has fifty thousand a hundred thousand dollars on account He or she is never gonna see again. So you come back you you You you get to them they have this meeting with you you say that you want to get your money back They won't give you your money back. And then how does it go from there? They said, you know, you you're gonna be interrogated because you're now acting as an enemy to the church Because you're asking for your money back, right? That's a bad sign Then I said, okay now it just kind of opened up a little bit of a wound then I started saying where Shelley Okay. Now I want to answer where Shelley is because I had been writing her Shelley Miss cabbage correct The leader's wife and I said I it's gonna get bad for you guys because now I started going on the internet and I started seeing stories of senior executives getting beaten in the church like Debbie cook and Mike render and Tom Devoeck and I was seeing all these names I was beaten that they were actually beaten physically beaten For what reason for looking the wrong way at David Miscavige? for sighing for for sighing for rolling their eyes for Tired For for yawning like yawning in front of him or something. Yes, so someone beats you right or had or he has somebody beat you and Mike render and Marty Rathbun were part of that right for part of that senior executive strata That was up in Riverside County where they have a place called gold Gold base and that's where these incidents were allegedly taking place So I started googling that and I started going into the church and saying I'm googling this information and I want to know why These people are saying the same thing and their stories are over and over again And then I'm seeing stories of families being declared suppressive people their OT aids You know, they're high up in the church and their families are being forced and then you're beat then you're presented with This is a lie. Look Marty Mike Mike render admitted that he beat people and Marty right? I said, but that's the difference. They're admitting it They're admitting that they did this under David Miscavige's direction, right? You're saying that they're lying, but they're not lying about they're doing it, but they're lying about having received it Does that make sense to you? I mean, you don't say over and over again These stories kept coming up right and they kept when I would ask a question They would put me in a room and go what are your crimes? Who are you talking to while you talking to enemies of your church? And it was just it was never my questions were never answered And I said to this church ever do anything wrong. Does this church ever do anything wrong? Is Everybody an evil asshole once they leave. Is that what you're telling me? So what would happen if you said that my mother was then I just got to believe you that My mother is an evil person and all these horrible things you're saying about my mother I'm supposed to believe you and the answer was don't believe me believe El what is El right? What does El Rey say and then they have the policy out? What does El Rey say read this read this aloud? What don't you understand? What does this word mean? What does that word mean? Go look this up You have a misunderstood word here If you don't understand that anybody who attacks your church is a criminal Like this is the kind of thing you go through right? So this is what you're going through when you came back to LA when you slowly started separating Did ever give you one of those big gold medals like Tom Cruise got I never got one But I did get a huge Award for donating another million to know and and and it's it's so crazy to me that Everybody who leaves is somebody who has an axe to grind apostate a bigot because I've been called a bigot Because they they they go to the one place they can go to which is don't don't Disrespect my religious beliefs right right and then they can call you a bigot. I'm for religious freedom I'm for the first admit like that. That's what they're hiding behind and I'm calling bullshit to every celebrity who says that shit Because they know what they're doing. I did it too. I did it too Joe So I know what they're doing right and they know that I know which is even sicker You're a terrible person to have against you on this why because you're so fiery and you you you you enjoy this Combat there's part of you that enjoys it clearly. Yeah, that's what I thought about this when the whole thing first started going down I was like oh, she's like a terrible person to like to leave the church because she's gonna talk shit to the end of time No, I don't mean a bad way. Listen Joe if you told me tomorrow and I really just getting to know you today I mean, I've known you but we don't know know each other, right? But I'm really I Kind of like you like you're you're cool. Okay. Thank you Like and you smile with your eyes, which is a thing that I loved about Kevin Like that was one thing I say about Kevin like there's like a smile like behind their eyes like there's a smile I always find that to be kind now you could be a total dick and I don't know about it Because I don't listen to podcasts. Okay, but are you a dick? No, okay good Cuz if I hear like when I leave here You know, okay, you probably hear that from one person or two. Okay, but just cuz you said it Okay, but here's the thing if you call me tomorrow and said I'm having a problem With my neighbor because he said I'm encroaching on his property and my kids swing-set is in croat like I would be so and Like I would be I would find every resource I could to help you that is who I am I not that I'm Mother Teresa. I will get upset about I if I see anything on the street I mean I get involved in shit. I've always been involved in other people's business Okay, always I if I could see into your house, I will spy on you I will do If I go into your house, I'm looking in your drawers. I'm in your shit I'm in people's business all the time and if I'm in a restaurant I tell Angela don't speak to me because I want to hear what's going on next to me You know and I figure everything out right but but but if I see people being bullied if I see people being unjustly Hurt. Yes, I do. I have always says and people who know me know that's true Yeah, well so This David Miscavige wife situation did that get resolved? No, I filed a point missing persons report with the LAPD And then I found some pictures of the guy who was in charge of my case speaking at a Scientology event on human trafficking Lieutenant Dawson At the LAPD police officer. Yeah I was in charge of the case paid to speak at the Celebrity Center at a human trafficking Event at Celebrity Center Scientology that seems like a massive conflict of interest you think Okay, so then so then that's funny. So then After that I called the Dawson lieutenant Dawson and I said so what's the deal because I had given a letter With the police report that said it was to Shelley if they found her Shelley go with this man Now I'm gonna take care of you all take care of your legal fees. What's going on there is wrong You have no idea because let me tell you said they have no telephone They have no mail in or out They are not allowed to leave the base if they leave that base up at Riverside County They are accompanied by security or handler. So you think she's a prisoner. I If she's alive and well the second Best case scenario would be yes that she's being held prisoner if not by her own mind If she's alive and well, right so you did what didn't she release some sort of a statement or someone Did I don't know who is from to respond to your accusations? Right, they they said that they had made contact with her and she didn't want to be found I said, did you see her or was she speaking? Was somebody speaking on her behalf you ready for the answer? That's classified This is what the police said and I said are you sick? I said sir, sir You say there's something wrong with you. Am I doing something wrong? I filed the report, you know that right? Like you know that I filed the report I thought maybe he was confused and he thought he was talking to my cousin I said no, it's like I filed the report. Of course, you're gonna give me the information I need to know if you saw her or the the officers that you sent there saw her. Did anybody give her my note? If did you did they was she okay? Was she did you take her off the base? Did you say do you wanted to speak to her alone? He said I can't give you any of that information Could you imagine then I had to spend more money Joe because this is not free I spent more money on a lawyer to do a follow-up on The public information acts I asked specific questions. Who did you see? Did you see her? Was she alone? Where did you see her? What did she look like? They didn't give me the information They go. Yeah, you can get that information if you pay two two more dollars Okay, we paid the two more dollars and then the thousands of dollars it cost me to get a lawyer to draft up the letter So it's still ongoing. I still don't have the answers So she just sort of vanished she stopped going to events right? And by the way, she is called her official Title is called CoB communicator Chairman of the board communicator. She is by his side 24 hours a day So imagine going from seeing somebody as a permanent like that's not like oh sometimes your assistant works Sometimes this is a person who worked around the clock for him and and was his wife. What do you think happened? I don't know which is why I filed it. Have you heard anything? No So no one who used to be a part of the church has contacted you There would be no, but okay anybody who would Anybody who I would need to talk to me is up behind gates in Riverside County at this gold base Anybody that I would need to come out and talk to me and give me information the FBI information would be behind those gates Where are they getting money from now? Okay, the Scientologist because it seems like well you have people like Nancy Cartwright who give 10 million dollars 20 million dollars You have some whales in Scientology You know you have Greta of Ancestrin and her husband Ancestrin Oh big time. Oh, yeah. It's on her Wikipedia pages. She's Scientologist Yes, and her husband too But it seems like they have a giant staff they have a lot of people People work for free baby those people sign billion-year contracts and they get paid $15 a week No, I'm not kidding. I'm not Contracts, I'm not being funny. No, I know you know they get paid $15 a week and they work From the moment they get up to midnight they work astronomical hours. These are called C-ORG members I'm not talking about average Scientologist and explain explain to me to see or because was that established when L Ron Hubbard was evading taxes? So yeah, he was on a ship. Yes, and he created the ship Called the free winds and whatever ship that they they're not called the free winds It is called the free winds now, but that's where they deliver the highest level of of Scientology there Oh t8 so when you get to ota you gotta dig in on a few winds But before that I don't know the name of his boats But I think it was called the Apollo that was a part of going clear that was hilarious when Who was it one of the writers or one of the the well? Haggis yes, yeah when he we received like the highest level shit that wasn't even the highest level wasn't even that was ot3 Really? Yeah, and I and when I read it, I literally you know, you have to go into a secure room Explain to talk us through that Well, you have to get invited you have to get an invitation. So you'd been in Scientology for years You'd spend a ton of money already money By the way most scientists don't even get to this most most don't right Because you have to be wealthy to get to this not only do you have to be wealthy? But a lot of times what they do that the new scam is you got to go you you get to a level and then they Go we mess that up. You have to go back down at your expense Right have to redo that part you were talking about that on your show. Yeah. Yeah, so and they were right some new thing Yeah, now David Miscavige rewrites things and says he found it in a vault somewhere Believe it baby. Honestly, we all believe it because we want to believe it. So Talk me through so you go through this. What level did you get to ot5? Oh, yeah close. Yeah I Got to someone I went so you to get to this advanced level this is it's called advanced levels, right? You are put through the wringer. They go through every folder You know from the moment you walk into a church in Scientology folders on you So everything you've ever said is written down and and videotaped Okay, so they they they get your folders and they they call they call it they go through it Okay, and they go through every transgression. Are you still humping your pillow? Are you still? You know a nasty asshole to your mother like they go through everything Are you still connected to this person who said something bad about Scientology 20 years ago? So they make sure that you're eligible To get the advanced data and where do they bring you? Where is it at? It's it's on Elvron Hubbard way in Los Angeles and fountain. It's so how nervous are you freaking out? I'm excited. This is happening. Finally all this shit. I've put up with all my life is finally gonna be answered All my questions of life are gonna be answered in this moment. You realize this is the moment you're gonna get the sacred documents So my mother yeah, so because I'm a celebrity they let my mother come in and she was also higher level than me, right? So imagine I'm in this like double like so you go through one door in the security and then you got to get the land You like you got to get like clearance. You got to go take a picture You've got to sign documents and say if I ever reveal this it's gonna be $100,000 You know, you don't ever get to read any legal document that Scientology gives you so you just sign things, you know You just they say sign here sign here. It's like today what you did here. So I don't know I could be married to you It's for all I know what I signed today I Like how you shook your head. No, you don't need to shy. Okay, so, you know comedy you don't deny Joe So I don't know why you keep denying that's how you step up the comedy another notch got it You just go. Oh, oh, I didn't get the memo. Okay, so that's what we're doing. Yeah You want a room a Secure room you got a land your they take your photo you saw the dance well, they give you a folder you have to get a briefcase that only you know the Code to a briefcase so you go up to the window to the ao window and you hand them your briefcase They scan your briefcase and they put the materials in the briefcase and they close it They turn it back to you and you lock it Then you attach the briefcase to your body. I'm not like a handcuff No, like with a little clip. Okay, it has to be has to be physically connected to you, right? So when you go pay You have a briefcase coming with you, right? Okay, so you get briefcase they go go to the go down the hall and Use your thing and you're gonna get be it let into one door and then you're gonna go into another door and you're gonna go Into the course room as I was called So you go into the three doors or two doors whatever it was you sit down You open up your briefcase and you read the material for the first time The answers so my mother sitting there in front of me. Okay, she's so excited Understand that like this is what you want for your kids Like you're like they're getting up the bridge and they're getting the answers to life. So when they come back next lifetime They're not gonna forget everything and they're not gonna be as fucked up as they were when they were you know Like it's it's really a proud moment, you know, and so my mom sitting across from me like So excited and I'm reading this that my body is made up of other beings My body my whole body My thoughts and everything are mixed in with these other beings that are make up compose my body Okay. Mm-hmm. Are you following me? Yes What's your understanding of it? Your body's made up of other beings right every every everything everything my thumb is Other beings your hair. You know the nails because they're acrylic Okay, you're your skins other beings your eyes are other be everything everything like foul just here to assume that just My thumb is a person is a is this being trapped into this body? Mm-hmm. Okay So I read this and the supervisor comes over and he goes do you understand? I want you to draw it out I want you to draw it out. So the supervisor has access to this information. Yeah. Yeah, he's standing there to make sure right So I go like this Joe. I don't draw a little person. Okay, I go There's a bunch of beings on me like that and I give it to him like that and he goes start again I want you to read it again, and then I want you to draw another one So I go, okay, so I did all this, you know, and I literally did this Joe I made circles on every part of my body So for people that are just listening at least drawn a stick figure and she's drawn little circles all over the stick figure Right. Right now these beings were like from 75 trillion years ago they were put in volcanoes and blown up and packaged and Overlord and Anyway, are you freaking out at this point? I go I look at my mother who said now the supervisor standing over me So I go what? Oh So your mom was in she's Ota right. I don't your mom's OTA. Yeah, your mom's top of the food chain Yeah Not only is my mother part top of the food chain when it comes to the counseling side My mother was top of the food chain when it came to administering Scientology, which is very rare She was what's considered a high trained auditor, but she hadn't read this stuff. Yeah, of course She read it. She was just there to see my excitement. Oh, I see. Okay. She was there as a spectator to see her daughter received The answers right, but you were super skeptical Right surprise it comes over and he goes what don't you understand I go I understand it I just I don't I don't loved it like I'm not happy I go. I just gotta tell you I'm not happy with this is what it was and he goes Well, you don't need to believe it. You just need to do it So that's the answer that's given to you. You don't need to believe it. You just need to do it So then you have to go and audit this you have to go and do it on yourself Talk to these beings on the meter by yourself So on the meter meaning you hold the cans and when I say cans folks what they look like It looks like soup cans like if you drained all the soup from a soup can and it had a string attached to it It's connected some yeah, you could just google what Scientology a meter meter Okay, so so you have to hold the e meter and discuss this no you think it you think you know There's just thank you. So now you got to go get your material So after you've been checked out on this and they get that you get what it is Then you go back to the window and they give you your actual what you're supposed to do with this Information so it'll say like it'll be a piece of paper and it'll say ask This question and then look at the meter and what the answer is whatever answer comes to your mind write it down Huh do you saying yes, so all you're doing is awakening these things to talk to them really? Yeah Right and so let them go you're basically saying like go be free So this is OT 3 correct and by the way when I was a Scientologist and I heard that this was a story I Was I didn't know so I would go to the internet and go OT 3 story But I didn't know what if it was true, so I couldn't verify it right decent saying so most people who go that's bullshit Because they haven't they don't know what they're looking at on the internet, right? There's no one to verify it with so if I went to my mother Let's say before I got to this level they you're told to lie to people Oh, you can't tell people what the answers are because they're gonna get pneumonia They get pneumonia truly will die Okay, so a lot of times when I lied to the press and then they confronted me on it and said why'd you lie? I was like I had to to save your life. I mean I can't Give you cancer So what if you were about to go to OT 3 and then you went online and you Investigated what is OT 3 and then you read a bunch of stuff about these little beings in your body and then asked your mom Your mom would have to lie to you. She would lie to me as she did as she did so after you got through this Yeah, what made you do four and five? There's always the carrot of like just wait Okay, here's what they do they set up that you're the auditor now so you're you're auditing these things in your body You're now the boss. So they go they tell you get your hat on like you're it's your job You don't need to believe anything. You just need to audit them. So you need to do your job as an auditor That's what they're called auditors people who are the ones who take you into session and Scientology, right? So you feel like you're in a leadership role. So you're doing these things a favor You know and you're like, well, maybe it's true. I don't know I mean, I do sometimes hear voices, you know, like, you know You have a moment with yourself and you're like I might be really kind of crazy So you're like, maybe this is an answer It's it's sick because it speaks to a side of you that wants answers about life, you know And then you're like, no, this is some crazy shit man. That wasn't even People what no, you know it it listen you believe what you want to believe at the time, right? Does it feel to you at the moment like maybe if you just keep going In the place then it'll make sense. Yes, like I'm confused now, but if I contemplate this and I really think it over Eventually, I'm gonna receive enough information. This is all gonna be like oh Right. I was a fool. I didn't understand right. So for example one time I had talked to a friend about it I said, you know, I heard something about some zenu shit She Pulled me into celebrity center so fast into a secured room and she Handed me my ass. She said don't you ever Say that word outside a secured room. I'm writing a knowledge report on you. She said I'm writing You never say that word out loud in a room that's not secured Okay, and never again, so she wrote a report on a knowledge report. She wrote a knowledge report on me I got sent to what's called ethics, which is like the Justice Department of celebrities of Scientology and they said they brought me into another secured room because they have to get somebody who knows this information And they said never ever say that say this never confirm it never deny it Never give that information out ever that just never discuss it just say I never heard of it. You sound crazy And that's what we all say you sound crazy or you know properly done you get it You know, like you'll get it if it's properly done those people didn't do it properly. That's why they didn't understand it. Do you see what I'm saying? There's a there's a line that you cross right? We're like, this is my life. This is Scientology This is what I believe and then you cross this line. Oh my god. This is bullshit, right? That that's a that line that bridge that you cross in your mind is a very distinct transition So what what was that like? Like what is that? Transition like like what is what is your life like well now once you did how long ago? Did you to leave July will be four years? That's it. Yeah, that's not long. No, that's really recent Joe and I'm still You know finding myself. I'm still like who am I? What do I believe right? You know, am I some bullshit? Am I a person that like you're saying loves a fight cuz I don't want that I don't want to be that person who loves to fight just to fight. I want to be on the path of being Righteous. I want to be who I really am and and and who I really am is sometimes an asshole Joe Sometimes I am I have a horrible temper I'm like a sometimes I feel like I'm like an old-school mafia person stuck in a female But like I have really extreme thoughts about life and I'm finding who I am Finding out what I really believe because a lot of times I don't know I go do I believe in that don't I believe in that? I was taught that everybody smokes pot is evil Do I believe that everybody who cheats is evil and horrible and just lost do I believe that other religions are lost? Do I believe that everybody needs like I really I'm searching so you have to reevaluate your entire system Everything and it was a big part of my day. Remember it gave me a mission. It gave me purpose and that's what I hear a lot from Scientologists is Scientologists not just hearing their pain of losing their families and everything they've ever known But not having purpose right when you wake up. Yeah morning like, you know, we have purpose Joe we have kids Yeah, God for them But this it was so much bigger It was for your children's children. That's a giant factor for people I have some friends that were deeply involved in the Mormon religion and they're not anymore and it was really weird because we went to dinner once and and They were saying do you believe in a higher power and I said it's entirely possible I said I don't but I don't believe in anything that I don't have any evidence of it's entirely possible Like I think the universe is an incredible mystery I think the life itself in Consciousness is an amazing mystery and I don't think we have all the answers I don't I just think I don't think an ant can understand a cell phone and I don't think I can understand the universe I just think my brain is not evolved enough. I don't think our Understanding has reached a point where we could really accurately describe what this is all about And they said and then but their answer was like, how do you get up in the morning? Right, I go. I love life. I like I like drinking nice wine. I like having dinner. I like being with my friends I like Joe not everybody has that Well, they probably should find some things they enjoy about this life. Exactly. But that's the thing is finding those things for Scientologists, it's like a Lot of my friends like who didn't really know what I was going through the church go, you know You're very kind of childish at times, you know, because I never went to dinner in my 30s and 40s and had wine Like I wouldn't go to dinner have wine. I get reports written on me, you know, we we had to go to church the next day I wasn't going out to dinner after the king of Queens and Enjoying my friends if and if I did Joe I was thinking they're lost they need Scientology You know, I was never really there. I was never really part of I'm like living for the first time, but I do have faith That's the one thing that I have found and not in a weird way Not in I'm in another cult way not in just I have faith for the first time I don't believe in any one thing. I believe in a higher power and I believe that faith Having faith is a big thing these people that I was friends with I'm still friends with this this conversation got It got a little weird that night, but it got way weirder years later because they want to believe it What do you mean? They left the Mormon Church? Okay well because then they got they became untethered and The conversation I had with the wife was very strange because she was like I grew up in Indoctrinated in this fundamentalist religion, right and she was and now that I'm not in it Yeah, she goes I don't know what to believe and I realized that my mindset is kind of fucked up because I I'm Indoctrinated like my brain developed as a young age believing nonsense and never questioning it She goes so I feel very vulnerable very susceptible She was I feel like if the right cult came along they could scoop me up and she was laughing about it But she wasn't laughing. Here's the thing. I'm the opposite now. That's why like when I I don't want you to tell me nothing. I don't want to be told a damn thing I've been told my whole life what to do and how to think so I've gone the opposite just don't tell me what I need to do and It the pendulum swing is far You mean like you go to the DMV when they go you need to stand there I don't need to stand anywhere like I don't need guess what I don't need my license renewed and then I'm that person Destroy my whole day and get a ticket because I don't want to be told what to do Don't talk to me like I'm you know your child and don't talk to me certain Like, you know, I'm very much that way, you know, you should have shorter now I don't give a shit what you think about my nails. I Want them that they're slightly longer than average Because it's purposeful and when I don't want them anymore, I won't have them But that's just a small scale. I don't want people telling me what I should think anymore And how let me find my way. I'm gonna make mistakes. I but I want to find my own way So you're sort of reestablishing your own personal sovereign and I don't know what it is Joe, like I said, I want to piss some more people off I'm sure and I'm gonna make a lot of mistakes I'm gonna not be the perfect person people think I am or want me to be But I got to make mistakes you got that's how you learn. I wasn't able to learn right? It was like to do it this way. This is the way we do it. We don't do this. We don't do that I mean, I was always a little bit of a rebel in but I thought everybody was being held to this higher standard They weren't I was finding out other celebrities were smoking pot and then going into the sauna Yeah, exactly like doing their purification run down a hundred times What's that's when that's in the beginning steps of science. How'd you have to do? What's called a purification run down? It's supposed to Detox your body of all, you know eatons not thetans. You're not there yet. No You don't get to say that I don't get to say no baby until you get there Oh, when do you get there what use you have to spend? $380,000 and and about 40 years of your life 40. Yeah, that's a lot of work It's not work. No you you learn basically purification run down is just you're supposed to sweat out all of the toxins lodged in your fatty tissue now the problem with that is you taking large amounts of niacin and they claim your your running out like suntan From from when you're a kid and from other lifetimes and it's nice and yes Like flash nice and see you feel it on your skin. It's your hot. Yes, and you have to sit in the sauna for five hours Wow, it's a five-hour thing, but I was finding out I was like wait a minute Why was that person even smoking pot we're not to smoke pot, right? Like I haven't been smoking pot this whole time You know where people do and I'm learning that other people were smoking pot doing other drugs and then going in the sauna I was like wait. I didn't know there was an option for me like I was living by this You know what I mean, so that's what I'm going through now I'm not saying I'm smoking pot, but it sounds like you want to a little bit Only because I want to be calmer, but it might not know Okay, then I don't want it. Well it could it has a different effect on everybody. No, you're definitely not John to old for no, you're not no you're alive If you're alive you can experience the benefits of a consciousness enhancing substance whether it's mushrooms or pot Any show that's crazy. It's not crazy. It's not crazy. I Don't know I look at me. I'm like getting good. Yeah, you freaking out. You've been in a cult your whole life. Sorry folks Nobody in Scientology other than the people are gonna attack me and you or are listening to this well Even the people that are gonna attack you and me that I don't feel bad for them I feel bad for them I feel bad for anybody that wants to attack anybody for their beliefs or for talking about stuff and guess what if you're Religion or your belief system? It's so easily destroyed that someone can have a disparaging opinion about it and that Threatens you to the point where you want to attack that person you're doing something wrong. You're leading your life wrong You're on the wrong path There's a lot of people that have different opinions about a lot of different things and it's one of the more interesting things about life Like you don't like coconut water. I fucking love coconut water. We're allowed to you know you like cologne I think it smells like shit We're allowed to have different opinions. This is one of the beautiful things about life You people like different kinds of music different styles of art. They like different kinds of houses and different landscapes It's it's one of the things that makes people interesting, right? so the problem with any kind of ideology the part of the problem with what what this represents or any other kind of cult or any other kind of Really rigid structure is that it's human beings are very susceptible to those kind of routines We're very susceptible to influence. We're very susceptible to other people Carving out these predetermined patterns of behavior that you just quickly slot into because it keeps you from having to form your own opinions Right and that's that that's everything that's wrong and you truly believe that you believe it. Yeah, I'm sure and you do Yeah, I mean it's very easy for people to just slot themselves into these these patterns All right and adopt those opinions as their own instead of trying to formulate their own because it's very complicated try to formulate your own opinions and they have to be flexible because new information comes up and then you have to kind of change them and adjust them and then recognize that perhaps like you like you're recognizing right now that like wow I've like kind of like I've lived a lie right for Like a long period of time. I mean it doesn't discredit you as a human It doesn't I mean and it's very brave of you to discuss that openly because it gives people that are listening to this That the same sort of understanding of these thoughts that are in their own mind whether it's because of whatever religion fill in the blank And that's the other thing about this. How the fuck do they have toxic tax exempt status? Well because they they first of all the IRS they answered the IRS questions To to get that status and one one of them is do you have any other affiliation with any other God? Of which they said no they deal with they they believe that they are spiritual beings And they're they deal with the spirit right? And so they answer the questions that needed to be answered for the IRS But is it amazing that any religion gets cat tax exempt status? All of them are ridiculous. Well, I I don't want to make a comment about other Like bona fide religions because I don't like some of her bona fide well. Yes, I do Tell you why I mean honestly Joe You have to really make the distinction between an organization That takes your mind hostage from the minute you walk in and that you are You are required to be there 20 you know two and a half hours a day that your eternity is at stake that you the planet every man woman and child on This planet their lives are at stake with what we do in Scientology don't you think the people who are like super hard-core fundamentalist Christians we've done you said fundamentalists, okay So I'm not talking about that what I'm talking about are What what I witnessed as a child with my grandmother my grandma looked down the street from her church We would walk in on the way to get you know sausage and meatballs and things she needed to make her sauce and She'd go in and light a candle for her friend Connie or she'd go in and light a candle because I lost my ring Or she'd pray to this saint or that saint and when I was scared at night She would say pray to this person pray to you know, do your cross and God's gonna protect you when you sleep and Here's your angel and you know, here's your little crow in it. She would give me little You know the saints on the on the necklaces and stuff and she'd say and I believed for that night that that saint was protecting me or that God was protecting me and And those you may be comfort it gave me comfort. And so that's what I tell my daughter I don't want you to believe in anything. Although I did map to baptize her as a Catholic I said I want you to really find your way with some kind of spirituality But I'm gonna baptize you Catholic because I feel you need some kind of foundation But I don't want you to be forced to believe in anything But I want you to believe in something or you're gonna fall for anything and I didn't have structure as a child You know, I had Scientology and I was a structure, right? Well, I mean a real a real religious Base a real religious base, correct? I've never heard the difference to an occult in religion. This is a beautiful quote What is it called? It's bullshit. It's created by one person that person knows it's bullshit in a religion that guy's dead, right? Did you come up with that no It's just something I read yeah, I like it. Yeah, true So I I but so that was my experience of religion now I know people feel very differently about religion being forced on their throat, but I would have Kind of loved, you know going with my family every Sunday to church I think it created when I saw my father doing that with his other daughters I was a little bit jealous that we didn't have that Right that we didn't get Easter dresses and it wasn't a big thing because my you know, we didn't have that growing It gives you comfort. Right? Yes. Yeah, that's also the the It I'm trying to Look it doesn't cost a quarter of a million you know to get up to this level that I explained to you and by the end of it if you Have made millions that you're gonna give those millions away It is a requirement that's not a requirement and in other Religions that you are not allowed to talk to certain people that now I understand that there are other cults That do that and I and I do call those things a cult because I don't think any Organization any church should tell people who they can and cannot talk to what they can and cannot read What they should and shouldn't do the person should make their own decisions based on the information that's given to them Or information that they find on their own, right? It's very different. This is a pay before you go proposition There are repercussions to leaving. Nobody knows that I went in and out of a Catholic Church the other day and lit a candle Nobody's calling me saying where are you why you're not here who you talking to you need to come in We're gonna start working on your family destroying your family. Do you who doesn't know what you're saying? but you know, there's there's different styles of Behavior patterns that exists in all sorts of religions like Buddhism is radically different than Islam, you know And there's different requirements that they ask of the people and a lot of it is based on the environment That these religions were established in based on how long these things have gone on for whether or not the the people that Are a part of that religion have gone through the Enlightenment like what what different factors played a part and what standards they uphold today? and what make people but the my issue is always with Subscribing to predetermined patterns of behavior and ideologies where they indoctrinate you on specific ways to think and that's what that's it Yeah, that's what a lot of religions are. I mean, it's it's a real issue with with human beings. Well, my grandmother of course was was Great. Yes, exactly. He's to think a certain way about people or lifestyle. Mm-hmm and But she had the choice To be friends with somebody who maybe wasn't those right sure choice. Yeah, we don't have a choice No, it's it's pretty obvious that some especially in particular the way you're describing Scientology It's far more suppressive than most and far more rigid in its behavior patterns All right, and they force you into these behavior patterns and it's it's incredibly difficult to break behavior patterns Right, especially when you believe firmly in your heart that this is the right way to be. Yeah Yeah, it's justified because you're clearing the planet. It's just amazing that they don't have to pay taxes I think that's stunning if you look at their their doctrine if you look at all the thing the Where there have been judges that should have looked into the doctrine. They said it's not we can we cannot actually look into the doctrine But they need to understand that there you need to look into the doctrine where it's abusive and hurting people Yeah, if your doctrine calls for you to hurt people hurt children the government does need to step in Yeah, I agree well it's just for absolutely this the accusations about the C org and about people making 15 bucks a week and about these people that are essentially Working as well, that's not a legal indentured service. It's not legal. They sign up for it So as long as you sign up for it and sign that billion dollar contract You're not subject to any minimum wage laws or anything along those lines. No, I'm by the way, Joe I'm not really that smart enough to speak on these things because people think that my that my agenda is to Take away their tax Exempt status. I would love for that to happen, but that's not the reason for the show They're just want to express yourself and be honest about your experiences and help other my experiences These are other people's experiences, but yours too. Well, but because I know it's true because I experienced it I'm co-signing and I'm saying, you know, if you're gonna bully somebody bully me bully a and a But I'm gonna let these people tell their stories because they're telling the truth, right? Yeah, and if we weren't telling the truth you would have sued us so cut the shit already Well, that's what's interesting is the disclaimer at the end of your episode the end of our episode. It's in a hundred times. Yeah Yeah, it's bullshit, but they got to do it. I think it's smart. It's smart to do it. You know a lot to me It's annoying every time I see it. I roll my eyes. I mean every time I see it I go me I understand it, but you know, it's it it's annoying because what we're saying is true. Mm-hmm Again, this is a litigious group. Okay, they're not gonna shy away from any lawsuit if they could have sued us or they would have But they know what we're saying is true. These are the policies of the church. Here's the danger They what they should do is go. Yeah, we subscribe to these policies. You don't fucking like it Don't be part of our church, but don't say we're all lying. It's right there on the internet you assholes I had the books in my freaking garage Right. What are you yawning about? Not yawning at all. I feel like you are. No, no No, I'm just thinking now you're you're you're your current state right now like doing this show and Having all these people I feel like you're helping a lot of them for sure because you're you're getting their message out there And again, it's a very heartbreaking message Yeah, you see these people and they're not in contact with their children and they're not in contact with loved ones. Yeah, it's an imagine my daughter Doing those videos going my mother just wants to make a buck my I'm disgusted by my mother I'm disgusted that she knew that that she's my mother. I would be It's crazy no, it's crazy. I'm I'm one of the lucky ones You know like these things didn't happen to me joe. I wasn't I wasn't molested. I wasn't Heard I wasn't physically hurt. I wasn't My kids didn't disconnect from me. My mother didn't disconnect from me. I have my mother during the holidays. I have my sisters I have my husband now Your life must have revolved around the church in a very big way socially. Yeah What is that like now like all those people they've written you off, right? Yeah, um, it's sad i'm sad for them because our relationship was was obviously um Dependent on my relationship to the church of sanitology. You can understand that right from them being brainwashed and no Because they knew me Right. So for my church to say you lee is an enemy of our church. My friend should have said bullshit Well, aren't you kind of an enemy of them now though? Uh, I don't know why I would be they know we're telling the truth, right? But that truth is very damaging to their organization damaging because their organization is the church right? You're right No, i'm not saying you've seen anything behind it. Say you don't like it. Don't be part of it Yeah, but they can't really do that why because they're doing some fucked up things baby They say they're the epitome of morality. They're the the the elite of mankind. They're saving the planet so When you go on their website and see that they say they're the largest growing religion They are the only ones with the solution to life to man's ills. I'm not making this up Okay, so when you make those kinds of claims you Then stand behind it say that's right. That's right. I don't believe in other things. We don't we think you're all lost We are extremists. We are bigots and we this is what these are our beliefs and don't join us We obviously have enough money. Do you communicate with any of the people? They're not allowed to talk to me Do you know in fact I've seen celebrities who talk shit to me on twitter and social media not directly at me And they run from me They run from me at parties and they're lucky they're lucky that they run because honestly I don't mind. I don't mind you talking shit. Just when you see me back it up. That's all just back it up You talk shit about you. Can you say I don't want to name? You want to know why I don't want to name a name joe? Yes, because I don't want to give him that much credit I don't want to give him that you could just name any any celebrity that you know Like that as a Scientologist, we what do we have? We have curse the alley. We have tom cruise. The alley still in what She called me a bigot. Yeah, she's big I'm a bigot because you don't like Scientology, right? But I wasn't a bigot when I didn't like anybody else but Scientologist, right because that's what's like I was very much a bigot and she knows it who else is in greta van sestren. She's deep Danny master sin I don't know who that is. Laura prepon. He was on the 70s show. Oh, yeah, she's in right. Um, Laura prepon Um Juliet lewis her brother lightfield. She says Lightfield lewis was just at a wedding her Juliet lewis his brother who I grew up with lightfield Okay in the Scientology community. He was filming a wedding. He was a sinner like, you know doing the video He literally ran from me and my husband at a wedding and he was videoing the wedding. So whatever that shot was And my husband even said to him a lot like he said hey He goes hey lightfield and he ran and the other band members because he ended up singing, right? Uh, he the other man said is he okay? Is he and he's like, oh he's just a Scientologist Who else is who else I don't i'm ignorant as to how many celebrities are Scientologists, I don't know um back Uh, well i'm trying to that's a weird one Why well because he's a musician, you know, and he's like a uber creative You would think that person's like super open-minded. He comes out with a song like i'm a loser, baby So why don't you kill me? Did he? Say song. Are you sure? Yeah, i'm a loser. Are you sure that's him? Yeah, that's him. I loved that song it's back It's like a big hit. Yeah, are you for sure? 100%? Okay Um, okay, you know, right? Okay, this one's saying yes, so I believe him because he seems Beckish. Yeah Like a Beck like he would be a nine inch nails That's Jamie he wears Yeezys Really look at him Who else uh, who else is in deep jenna elfman right jenna elfman she's still in deep deep whatever happened to her Uh, she had that big show. I don't know we all go up and down in our careers You know, that's the thing too is like I love how the church Tries to measure like she's a uh an actress Past her time. I was like, oh the church says that oh, yeah I'm still on my website. How's anyone past their time if you're still alive and acting right? I mean, yeah, I was famous. Betty White's not past her time, but I was I was famous enough when I was in right Oh now you're past your time. That's what they're saying about you. Oh hilarious That's adorable. And by the way, you can't measure people like we we have an up and down career That's right. That's our life. But but I I don't I don't need to work. I want to work I love what I do. I love acting. I love making people laugh, but I don't need to do it. You only need one Solid hint in your life, you know that right? Um, this is my passion. This is something that I always wanted to do As far as helping people. This is why I was in Scientology. I loved helping people It was everything to me if somebody needed help. I was there I just love it Um, that's why I know like to talk shit about these people I know in their hearts. They really believe they're helping even attacking me is how right so I don't really want to Call these people out like this specific person But but at least have the bulls to back it up when you see me So you believe they just have misguided intentions, but their intentions are correct as you did at one point done too So you're uniquely qualified call anybody a liar a bigot. I would tell the zenu story as a lie It's crazy. You sound crazy. What is the zenu story? This is the story. This is how they got to be attached to our bodies The zenu story is they got packaged. What is it? You can google it. They fell into a volcano it got dropped into a volcano Yes, they got packaged like there was a planet that existed like this. It looked like this and then the the the um, Lord zenu Thought that there was too many people on the planet. So he packaged all these people up Is that ot8 stuff? No, I think this is ot3 stuff ot3 and what what happens like at ot8? Did you your mom's out now? Right? Yes. So hold on. So You are told from the very beginning in science that you have a reactive mind And so in diabetics You are running out these bad experiences that you've had maybe this lifetime maybe last lifetime Maybe lifetimes ago. So you're you're told that you have a reactive mind and we're going to take it away We're gonna find it and we're gonna take it away So you don't even know that you have it until you're told you have it, right? So you run all these like things these incidents Like you'll get a picture in your head. Oh, i'm getting a picture that I was like a french Medieval times whatever they're like, that's okay. You don't have to believe it. Just say it just say what it is Yes, and then I was burned at the stake. I was a witch Obviously I was in salem and I was burnt because I have a problem with fire, you know And you're making up these things as you go and then you're like, I think i'm making these up And then there's a policy that says the person's going to say by almond harbor that they're making it up But they're not making it up. These are real pictures of real past lies. I don't know, right? Okay By the time you get to ota you're told okay, so what wasn't true? All of that was a law you made that up But what is like what aren't you So i'm not a i'm not a body i'm not a Arm i'm not a this i'm not I was never louis the the I was never that guy that I said I was never Uh a witch in salem. I was never so that's what ota is that you're basically told what what wasn't true What are you? Like what are you really i'm just me is the answer. How did your mom get out? My mom got off that ship and she said i'm never Going back. Why is that doing another thing because she thought it was bullshit But she thought it was okay when you were going through your ot3 thing and they're explaining to you that you're covered with bugs You're not ready. You're not not bugs Do we need to go back Baby do we need to do no, we don't but i'm laughing i'm just joking around um little beings not bugs So your mom got all the way past that yes and something She decided at one point time. It's bullshit. It wasn't for me. What was it that she decided? She couldn't tell me that if she would have told me that that would have stopped me from going They would have pulled me in and me. So when did she think it was bullshit? I don't know Oh, so she got to the top, but she can't tell me she thinks it's bullshit. I'm still coming up behind her, right? If I If she then pulled me in and said leah, this is bullshit Like I I don't want you to continue then I would have turned her in I would have You know saying it would have they would have gone to work on me and your mother you need to disconnect from your mother She didn't want me to disconnect from her. That's so complicated family So you learn to be quiet? It's so complicated It is complicated and it takes years and years of this. You don't just it doesn't happen overnight So your mom got to ota so she had to go to the ship Yeah, and is it the wackiest of the wacky when she got to there and she's like this is nonsense. I'm done She was just happy to be done. Finally. It was almost like she was free Wow. Yeah, so what happens when she left did they go? Hey, where are you going? No, no, she you know after you're done They let you off the ship, right? You complete it you get a cert And that's it and then you don't have to go every day anymore No, and now but they created more ot levels now, so she would have been called back in They created more yeah, so you're like look we just went to the vault right uncovered a scroll right We found some writings of elrond hubbard before he passed And I swear to god it's not even a lie and you believe it joe don't laugh at me because I feel bad for Like I feel bad for people. I do too looking back. I go You know, we were all went into it like with a good heart like we believed What they were saying it was like well What do you mean you just found it elrond hubbard said it was the end of the bridge was ot8 And we spent our whole life doing this like you want there to be a definite end, you know So you could live your life a little bit It's just incredible that a science fiction writer Could create something like this that's so poorly written. Yeah, but no poorly thought out We only knew of his science fiction writing like from him telling us But it wasn't like we were faint like knew elrond hubbard as a science fiction writer There must be some knowledge of it. Otherwise battlefield earth would have been made of course They have a whole building on on uh, they have a whole literary building on hollywood boulevard called arthur services And it's all dedicated to elrond hubbard's publishing Um, and you walk in you think this man Is a serious right like this is somebody who was really well accomplished for people who don't know he wrote more books and wrote More stuff than more fiction than any human being that's ever lived ever. Is that true? Yes He wrote more fiction than anyone who has ever walked the face of the plant He made up Made up more shit than anyone who ever lived so he wrote down more Shit that never really happened than anyone who ever lived right? But the Scientology stuff he was telling the truth about right But you don't make that you don't think that you don't understand you don't make that distinction You don't you're you're reading diabetics because it's a self-help book right like you were searching for something Bigger, you know, most people are looking for that And so when you read that book and you're like, oh I could cure myself of psychosomatic ills and right Um, well he's it's that was a big part of going clear is that it it it seems pretty obvious that he was going through Some issues himself and he was trying to self-diagnose himself Blindness he said so and and you believe it you want to believe it You want to believe like I can cure myself of things. I I am the cause of my own Well-being by my own thoughts and I don't want this reactive mind and and you know, that makes sense, right? When people say have you ever done anything? That uh is uncontrollable to you that you know is damaging to you and you're like, yeah every day I don't want to make bad decisions. Well, that's because it's your reactive mind, right? It's it's beneath you It's it's it's in your subconscious deep in your subconscious. We're gonna help you find those um areas and we're gonna help you to stop making bad decisions and Who doesn't want that right and you believe it, you know, you go from maybe you know Uh punching somebody in the face, you know for looking at you a certain way to being able to control your emotions You're like, oh, okay. Maybe this is working. Oh, okay. I used to do drugs now. I don't you know in cursey's case It saved her life So if she believes it it saved her life it saved her life. I'm not taking that away from her I'm not taking away your gains and your wins But don't take away the fact that you know I'm telling the truth and don't come from me when you know, I'm telling the truth because then we do have a fucking problem Well, it seems like yeah, I mean that they're a clan, you know, and you are opposing the clan You know, they know it's true. Right? I have a listen if you didn't know it's true then I'm like, oh she's unaware She knows it's true. So to come for me is kind of crazy It is kind of crazy, right? Like what is the predominant criticism amongst these people? They're not they can't say you're lying, right? Uh, yes, they say I'm lying about what all lying baby. Not just me. We're all lying Any person who's spoken out against the church is lying. We are bigots. We are invalidating their religious beliefs we are Telling them that something didn't help them. We're not nobody's saying that nobody's if you feel you've been helped you've been helped However, you know the truth and now you have a responsibility But what they think is I don't want to have a problem Scientology helps me and so that's all I care about so you don't give a shit about abuses You don't care that children were being molested and these things were being hidden You don't care that what children are being molested, honey If you even just google that what I just said Scientology and child was it you will come upon website after website of people saying I was molested while I was in the church and the church did nothing about it I'm not alleging it. This is what I've read. This is what I've seen right? Um And i've been in I hadn't heard that well, you're gonna you you can hear it You're gonna hear it because people are becoming more and more vocal about what's happened to them. And so if I seem uh overly passionate About this subject it's because I have heard these stories Over and over again behind the scenes. I have heard stories of people being abused children being abused mentally physically sexually And i'm only me with a show, you know, a and a can't do anything other than just let me tell these stories Right. Um, so i'm virtually um and mike render and Um other avenues that we really can't talk about i'm trying to do something right by these people And so the last thing that I want to be bothered with is bullshit from a celebrity who knows that Um, we're telling the truth about what we have already spoken about But to be interested enough to maybe find out what I am talking about now, right? Well the greta fan sustrine one is really odd because she's a news person So you're supposed to be a television news journalist, right? I mean, isn't that what she does? No, um Yes, but why why is it because I would just assume like you would want your news from someone who doesn't believe a bunch of wacky shit Well that i'm in her defense. I mean who who knows what any uh person believes true however The distinction that i'm glad you did make is when you are hearing about abuses when you are hearing about things that are happening hurting people You then do need to say i'm aligned with this organization. And so I do need to find out right? How long has she been in it? I think most of her life There's a lot of people like that, right getting indoctrinated as a child Have you received emails or any sort of uh contact from people who your show benefited and it was the catalyst for them leaving a lot No for leaving. No, I have uh, we've received Tons of emails of people who said i'm glad you told me that i'm glad I watched your show i'm well informed now I will never step into a church with Scientology Um, what about people leaving because well, you're not getting Scientologists watching the show, right? You know, I know they have shows right? You don't have to be on the front. Well average Scientologists do but they're not watching shows like this. They'd have to pay for that Literally joe like you'd have to go in the next day and pay to have your own interrogation And punishment handed to you for watching a show like ours or going clear after a while you just go I don't want the punishment especially if you believe that I am The devil if you believe that I am a liar that I have crossed over to another side That i'm not to be listened to why would you support somebody who was talking shit about you? And your faith or your family and people you love would you go out of your way to listen to them? Maybe but the average person doesn't want to seek out things That they think are damaging What you know, what kind of blowback have you received from this like and what kind of blowback is a guy like paul haggis or Lawrence wright or any of these people well paul had to watch his family go on his hate website that the church of Scientology created and watch his family Talk about him Disconnect because they're still in it because they're still in it disconnect from him As every single person who's been on the show Um, they've been followed they've been harassed. They've been uh, they got pis following them. They have people showing up at their jobs Uh, they're getting mail all of a sudden like people who are people who don't even Have never stepped into a church or getting mail connected to me mail at their house I mean like have never stepped into a church of Scientology. The girl does my eyebrows She's like I don't know. I said you you never stepped into a church or something. She said never She's getting mail for the first time for the church of Scientology. It's just crazy but that that that's just a little um, uh anecdote but that but To have your family make videos of you to not talk to you to refuse to See you your their own grandchildren Um that that's just something I can't deal with but also now what we're what i'm dealing with now is hearing stories Uh of these people have been silenced for years the pain that they've They've had to deal with and sustain through these years the fact that they're normal in any way is a miracle Um, and so I I hope to do something with them and I hope to to make some change What what are the positive? aspects of Scientology and how do you think it benefited you and do you think it's possible to take some of those positive aspects and Either reform that organization or form another organization that doesn't try to control people's thinking but maybe positive Maybe tries to encourage The the positive benefits of being a part of a group. I couldn't I couldn't promote anything good about it because I know it's an all-in Proposition right, but isn't it? But isn't there some Read books you can always buy the books if you want to buy the books, but I I mean, I don't think it there's I you know go into a therapist now and I bring up concepts and she's like, oh, yeah That was in psychology my uh psych one, you know, i'm like what right a lot of it is from A lot of us existed. Yeah, you know, um, so yeah, but I I believe in in uh, Finding things that work for you. I don't think it's one thing The one thing that my therapist teaching me is that it's not just one thing You know you get something from here you get something from there. It's knowledges Scientology is not about knowledges. It's about us and this therapy thing is very new to you You never went through any therapy My first thing that I said to her is I just want you to know that I think I know more than you I was taught I was taught as a Scientologist that you are you have wasted your life going to college I could do for a person in five minutes on this e-meter what you're going to do with me in You know in five years like what did your therapist say? I understand. I understand I understand that you feel that way and she said, uh, you know that spirituality and religion Uh should have nothing to do with the ego But like it that stayed with me for a second because I was like I have a huge ego. She's right She's right. Scientologists believe That they have the answers and when you believe that you have shut yourself off to uh The fruits of observation to experiencing other people to opening your heart up to things. I mean it's It shuts you off completely. So you feel like this is a part of you that you're re-exploring or exploring maybe Yeah for the first time your non-colon thing is like i'm so judgy about it, but i'm willing to maybe change my mind My non-colon thing i'm sure you've seen that video of tom cruise the where it's got the mission impossible sort of Soundtrack playing in the background. He's talking about a car accident Have you stumbled upon a car accident? Like you know that you are the one who has to take care of because you're a Scientologist You're the only one who can handle that and and you believe that when you're a Scientologist you you are not only You are taught that we are the only ones doing anything that you are the only ones That's why it was so shocking to me when no one in my church was willing to stand with me I was like wow, so we are not those people who stand up, right? We are the people who look the other way Because you all look in the other way because of time because of david scavenge because you have no bulls Really? Are we those people? Because the truth of the matter is when there was an accident joe I did stop I am that person that stops and say are you so that's one of the positive benefits of Scientology Well, you feel that you're responsible for everything and you felt like you wanted help as well You felt you could help and you wanted to help. That's a positive thing, right? You're right and all Scientologists do think they're helping right? So there's got to be some That like one other thing that I've found about a lot of Scientologists Ego, yo, if you think you're the only one doing anything, right? By the way, there are other people who stopped But I believe in why I believed that it was because I was a Scientologist that I stopped right But then I saw in life. I was like wait a minute. There's good people in the world. They have no interest no Altir your motive no vested interest in helping Somebody right there like i'm a little shocked like but the show that's why like in in the last episode I was in tears I was a mess because I was shocked by the goodness of people that I thought the world was so screwed Because of Scientology because I thought we were the only good people in the world Do you see what i'm saying? I sound so stupid in juvenile It doesn't though it completely makes sense and it honestly From someone who's lived their entire life indoctrinated in that ideology and you've only been out for four years you're you're showing a remarkable amount of self-insight in a remarkable amount of ability to Examine the flaws of your past thinking and current. Yeah and current. Yeah, because every day i'm like that's really messed up But to abandon the foundation that you've kind of established your entire life on it's got to be insanely difficult to do it in your 40s after all these years of being involved in this crazy sort of organization It's very it's very admirable. It's very hard It'd be way easier for you to just keep stay in stay inside your comfort zone Keep doing all your nonsense get up to ot 55 or whatever the fuck it is now You know and just keep paying the money and keep your friends Right, you know, do you miss any of your friends that were in it? No, I only miss um the children of um, like my god daughter And you know because I see her she lives in my neighborhood and she can't talk to you Well, her mother can't talk to me. She doesn't know me now I delivered her you know delivered her in the hospital and then I Moved my friend close to me down the street so she could be in a certain school district And then i'd be able to be with my god daughter And uh, I see her in the neighborhood and she can't talk to me so the girl the you know that my god daughter doesn't know me she wouldn't know to come to me because She's now only You know five six, you know, I'm saying, right? um How are they hanging on? How do they how do they stay have amassed three billion dollars in assets three billion? Yes And so it takes it's going to take a few good men And women to stand up with us and and and get interested, you know, like I said, there's been a few public figures to To publicly come out. You're now one of them. Conan is another one and and You know bill marr like there's some people with some balls that are willing to say this is Bullshit and we should be doing something about it um, the world at large is supportive of Of me and the people who are contributing to the show amazingly supportive social media has been amazing to us Um, and and as well a need very brave to do a show like this This is the first time of its kind. I mean a series about it Um took some balls in their part. Um They pussied out with disclaimers, but okay, I think they probably had to do that for the lords. You don't need to defend them Um So I think more and more people are coming out more and more people are being supportive But we need more people in the public eye to say that this is enough We need to do something. What has it been like doing press for this and promoting it like what have been The varied reactions from people that you've had to talk to it's not been varied. It's been very supportive And beyond touched by it like beyond I didn't know what I was going to get I didn't know If I was going to get people who were gonna you know Kind of walk the line and go well, I don't know You know, I mean the one problem I had was with dan because I felt you know Dan knew enough dan was provided with enough. We've talked to him and dan dan harris, you know from 20 years Like he was like kind of I was like we can't be impartial about things We shouldn't be impartial about like come on there's some things in the world You need to stand up to right and I want people to feel that power whether it's this cult or other cults or um Um a political Party or agenda like I feel people have the power to do something. I think that's becoming more and more evident And I think people need to start standing up for what they believe in they can do something and we get asked that all the time Like what can I do? I say call your congressman call them and say I want you to look into this I want you to do something about this. If you're a lawyer who could do something you should Contact us if you're somebody who has Um, uh knowledge of something that that could could help us prosecute you need to come forward Because a lot of the stories that we told the statute of limitations on these abuses Have already passed and it's their words against You know a hundred others like let's say, uh We walked in right now to that base that I was telling you about most of them wouldn't leave They don't know what's going on out here, babe, they don't know that what's there being told is not happening You know what I mean? They don't know So, uh, I would love to do that I would love to walk into those gates with the fbi and say hey You all who want to come with me come with me now and we're going to take care of you And i've asked mike render that many times and mike said they probably won't go with you I'll stand there and say what are you talking about? You know, you've been beaten. I beat you I beat you you beat me he beat you people you know what i'm saying? Well, yes, he you gotta beat people he had to rough some people up and he admits it in the show But not you you didn't beat anybody Um, did you have to smack anybody around in general because I did on the show i've been into a few fights How do you clubs you've been in fights and clubs? But you don't drink Well, I did drink joe you did you did bad things while you were in in the group? I did and you uh got lit up and out Cracked some people. Yeah, but that's called them from brooklyn Um, I blame I blame brooklyn you blame brooklyn. That's that's strange Okay, I don't blame anybody but myself and my bad attitude But did they ever make you smack anybody or anything like that? No, it's not about smacking It's about but he had to do that, right? He had to beat people david muscavage This is what they they have said and they said it under oath um, david muscavage under his direction Has um and they and they have admitted to that. Um, but where they admitted it Uh, there'd be 20 people who said they're lying Now is this like a punishment thing? Like are they flogging these people? It's like uh, they had a policy called overboarding when the ship was Where the sea org and they would overboard somebody who was out of line. So throw them overboard? Correct. And so now you toss them in the water, right? And so now you don't have overboarding because you don't have ship, right? Well, when you say toss them in the water, they pull them back out or Fuck you. Yeah, I'm sure they threw them a line. I'm sure they threw them a line. I'm sure you know Yes, they got back on the boat, but it was a form of punishment. It's called overboarding Yeah, um now they've just assimilated that to be like we don't have a boat So he might as well crack them in the mouth or break his finger. They don't have a boat anymore No, well, they have the free ones, but they don't have a sea work ship like they used to now they have Bases, you know like celebrity center. I don't know celebrity center They have the maximum a big factor like what happened to the boat Why are you obsessed with the boat because I feel like that would be a cool thing to own on the old cytology boat Going parties. No, this is this where they told the people about ot sex right in here. Okay, do you remember what I said? That there was the apollo. Okay joe do we need to There was a boat that's what started the sea or no. I understand. It was called the apollo Yeah, where they give ot8 Is called the free ones they still have that that's a different boat. Yes. Okay, that boat's still around That boat's still around. Where's that boat? So you can buy that boat probably in the bahamas Oh, that's where they go. It's a good place to party and learn about the ends. They're not part of thetans And it's not partying Oh, okay. Yeah, no partying at all. No party when they do have a party Yeah, like if they have a big old celebration Like I saw the one celebration you I would go to the gala every every year at all Yeah, the celebrity center and what what happens there? Uh, we listen to speeches about how much Scientology is accepted in the community by the la pd And la pd talks. Uh-huh. La pd so they contribute a bunch of money to the lp. Yes They give they give um, they started a thing called the police activities fund League, sorry The police and I and I contributed to it and I helped it and I they put on a show for the kids Every christmas at celebrity center and they give them money the proceeds to what they created which is called the police activities league and they Present the the la pd with money for children. Well, that sounds great. It's great. But it's it the right. It's but listen It's purposeful. Right? It's there's a policy called safe pointing Uh the community and that's what they're doing and I did it. So I I know what it's about, right you appear as if your Intentions are pure so that you then have maybe favors like this happening where somebody files a police report And you get screwed with God Where do you think this is going like where do you where do you anticipate your battle with this? I don't have a battle I hope that You kind of do. Um, no because I I Joe if you receive the clause that I receive like When I when i'm not working on the show because you know, i'm an executive producer of this show. So They're not safe to just call anybody. They're not gonna call a and e it's mike me and mike. It's we're the ones who Have to vet these stories and kind of uh people trust us because they know we're telling the truth and they know that we have Their best interest at heart and telling the story correctly, right? Um And when you talk to these people when I talk to them behind the scenes It takes every piece of me not to break down. I have to be kind of Uh, their auditor, you know, I mean their Scientology auditor to keep my shit together But when I hang up i'm devastated by it i'm devastated by it like uh, i've been part of this thing You know, I mean like i'm getting teary-eyed talking about it now many people are in it And maybe 10 000 worldwide that's it. Well, it gives the appearance because I thought Like At these big events that the shrine auditorium that they have every year, right they show What Scientology is doing and they use things like hundreds of millions and these really kind of electrifying statistics, right? And we bought this building and we bought that building and that would indicate growth Right, right. That's the subliminal message to you, you know There's people in there, but they are just buildings And but you believe that those buildings are being so they just bought some buildings Well, they have to for tax purposes, right and the appearance that it's growing. Wow But it's but they have to get offload some of this money Do you have an end game with all this my end game is just to tell these people stories To validate that their pain is real I'm not going to let the church bully them or Scientology bully them into believing that they made it up That they're out to get money or fame. You don't make money doing this show, right? You know, i'm not saying And how long are you doing it for like how many I don't know. I don't know I really how many episodes have you done? We've only done eight and then two specials, you know Like some you know, the reddit specials that we've done but You know, there's a whole other There's a lot of stories to be told I didn't even scratch the surface So how many stories are we going to tell? I don't know. What's my end game? My end game is that these stories get out there that people getting sense enough where this church Well, I have to call me a church. This organization is is held responsible for the things that they have done and Um, they stop destroying families. I mean, there's so many tears to it that I don't I don't know where it ends I don't know where it ends. But so there's no plan as far as like how long to continue this You're gonna stop hurting people That's it. You're gonna stay you're gonna take some responsibility for what you've done. These stories are real These are not liars people don't say they were hurt and molested They don't go on television for fame to say they don't get money from doing that They don't get money from doing that who wants to go on television and say I was coerced into getting an abortion And who who does that for fame really? Joe I was hit I was abused. I was sexually molested. I allowed this to happen These things are not easy for people to admit to right You know You think it's easy for me to say I was you know I believed in this my whole life that my mother believed in it her whole life that my stuff like We gave our life to this thing. Well, you're very fortunate your mother made it out too God i've been here a long time. I should go. Yeah, and i'm sweating. That's okay We'll wrap this up, but you know how I feel about sweat like I can't even wait to get this shirt off Then I don't like sweat Well depends. I mean if It well, I do like sweat, but I don't like it when i'm dressed. Okay All right, you like naked sweating. Congratulations on that With but no, I think I think you're very brave and I think what you're doing not just didn't it's like What you're doing with your show, but the way you're admitting your own personal Demons and the battles that you're having with your own mind trying to sort of reformulate your view of the world And figure out who you are. Thank you. You know, I think thank you. It's very important And thank you very important for people to hear. Thank you, baby And honestly, I really thank you for having me because it's it doesn't come without Some repercussions to you i'm sure but I want you to know that I appreciate it. I really listen my pleasure and uh Let's uh, say hi again and not over some wackiness like this after all these years. Yeah. It's been funny I've seen you in so long. I gotta tell you the seven minutes before we started this we had a very funny conversation It was very funny No, seriously, would you talk about it all the year? What I'm gonna do it now. No. Yeah. Oh, yeah for sure But I think there's something there. I don't know. There's something funny about what we were talking about Everybody's gonna say what was it? What was it? What was it joe smells and things? Oh, it smells and things periods Good night everybody leah remini, uh your show when it's gone Well, it's done now. Yeah, but what uh, oh, I I think you can see it online Yeah, well it's on a and e all the time, but they show it constantly. It was on just a couple nights ago Yes, and i'm so glad yeah, they're they're airing the shit out of it. Yeah So, um, uh, if people want to follow any of this is there a website they can go to? I think they can go to it. God. I should know these things right? They'll find it. Google it folks. Thank you Thank you very much. Bye everybody So You