Joe Rogan Experience #822 - Chael Sonnen

Chail sun and non coffee enthusiasts. Coffee non-enthusiast? Well, I drink it every day and I like coffee but I've got a doctor a little bit. You know, I've got coffee mates and the hazelnuts and I've got to do all that stuff. Do you use this jazz? Stevia? No, but may I? Yeah, please. It's stronger than sugar so don't put it in like you would do sugar but it's completely natural, available everywhere, all sorts of health food stores and whole foods carries it. It's just a plant-based sweetener. Not sugar, not bad for you. Doesn't give you the da-bit-is. Doesn't fuck with you like aspartame does. Some people don't like the taste of it but I like it and the fact that I can get away with it or I can drink it and I know there's no sugar at all, I like it a lot. Are they a sponsor? Are we doing a plug right now? No, it's just a plant. So if I don't like it I can say, I don't know about this stuff. Yeah, it sucks. We don't even sell it. So... I'm a fan of it. So here's my theory on coffee and I think this is true. If coffee wasn't around and I discovered it and I sat you and Jamie down and I slid a cup across the table and go try this guys. I want $50,000 from both of you. I'm going to build this coffee empire. Taste this. You go, you're out of your mind. You want to give me a dollar. I go, no, no, no. Not only am I going to sell this for a profit, I'm going to put sprinkles in it. I'm going to put in a fancy cup. I'm going to mix whipped cream on top and sell it at 300% profit. You could just out. I'll tell you, well, maybe, I mean a very small niche market, maybe. I mean it sounds like it's going to be everywhere. It's not bad, right? Stevie is good. It's got like a little bit of a bitterness to it. It doesn't taste as good as sugar, but for me it's a good compromise knowing that there's nothing negative about it. So we're going. This is how you start your show. I like this. No big interd... You just turn it on. It's not necessary. You're the man. No one else could pull that off. Everybody could. They just need to do it. If you just didn't worry, if everybody just didn't worry, they would just do it this way. I suppose you're right. So whatever will we talk about today? Is there... I don't know. There's nothing to talk about. Is there anything going on? No. I mean it just seems like it's just nothing happening. It's just an average Monday with a couple of coffee drinkers here. We're all trying to figure out if they're going to sell or not. And I'm on the other side of the fence from a lot of the reports. I'm going, God, I hope so. What a cool thing. I mean they can sell the work they put in, the wrist. They built this industry. Isn't that the ultimate thing you want to do with the business? Day one when you sit down to start a business. You want to create something so cool somebody else wants to buy it. So I'm on the other side of the fence. All these reports were coming out like this was going to be earth shattering news. And well, this is going to be great. If you like them, if they've done something for you and you're cheering for them, then cheer that this goes through. Particularly if you retain Dana. And that was the other part of the report, was that Dana was going to stay on. Well, that's relevant. There's not another guy alive that can run that. And that's not some nice statement to Dana. Dana, it's just the truth. You can't go to a library and check out a book on fight promotion. You can't go to any college and major in fight promotion. You either know it or you don't. Yeah, it's difficult. And it requires all day. Dana's working all day. For people who don't know, I'll call him at like one o'clock in the morning and he just got off the phone. And he's doing deals and he's making things happen. He's trying to... And he's obsessed with it. I mean that guy really does love the business of putting together fights. We'll talk randomly just in the middle of nowhere about fights for hours. He just loves to talk fights. He really is a big fan and obsessed and not burnt out yet, which is amazing. Because the amount of hours that guy puts in, and obviously he's making a shitload of fucking money, but it's still the amount of hours that he puts in. You would think he would be cooked by now. Yeah, you would. And I know what you mean. One a.m. is a good time to get a hold of him. I was in Brazil. He called and woke me up. I was doing the Ultimate Fighter. He woke me up. It was 4 a.m. And I grabbed the phone and he was talking business right away. And I just said, Dana, I'm not here right now. Whatever I agree to right now, I get a pass. Because if you give him your word, that's it, right? Whatever I agree to does not... I'm out of it. It's 4 a.m. And he goes, oh man, it's 4 a.m.? And I said, yeah. And he goes, dude, I thought it was only two. I'm really sorry for calling. But he was serious. He was serious. And so it's like, okay, I get it, man. If you're working, I'm... And it was the office line. It wasn't his cell line. He was at the office. And I'm going, okay, well, if you're going to work, then I got to do it. What's 4 a.m. in Brazil? What time is that in America? That's got to be 10. They're not that far ahead. They're 4 or 6 hours. I was in Sao Paulo. So it was still, you know, he's in there graining. That was a ballsy move of you to do the Ultimate Fighter in Brazil after you had talked mad shit about virtually every legend that ever came out of Brazil. Yeah. And to understand... Thank you for saying that. But it's also relevant to understand how big MMA is over there. You get away with that here. And there's going to be some pockets that know exactly who you are. But it's going to be just that, pockets. In Brazil, it's the number two sport behind soccer. Everybody knows. And I had armed security. We went everywhere in bulletproof cars. And one night, the guns came out. And whatever bravado you think you have or you think you will have, when the guns come out, you find out it's not true. You're scared. What happened? There's... This is an actual move. Like, there's a name for this. And it's very common in Brazil. But we were going in traffic. And a guy cut in front of us. And then what they like to do is cut in front of you, slow down, and then you get boxed in, and they jump out and rob you. So when the guy swerved over, we were in three lanes traffic, there was nobody else on the road. So when the guy cut in front of us, security knew where it was going on, they pulled their gun out. My wife was in the back. And she was sleeping. She was laying down. She had her feet across me. And I woke her up. And I said, he got his gun. And there was an exit right up. And the guy swerved over as quick as he cut in front of us, took the exit, and was gone. Nothing happened at all. But in that moment, you find out when the guns come out, whatever macho-ness you think you're going to have in that situation you don't have. Dude, were you thinking, like, why did I talk all that shit? I've just said, yeah. And I don't think it had... They had no way to know I was in the car. I mean, I think they were just getting ready. Or at least the security thought they were just getting ready to rob us, you know? But yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, that's true. You know? That's true. It's like, hey, can nobody here take a joke? Am I the only one that can take a joke? But it ended up being a great time. It ended up being a really great time. The Ultimate Fighter just is in general. I had the opportunity to do two of them. But you build lifelong relationships. You know, you stay friends with those guys. You watch them being vulnerable. You watch them putting their whole life, everything into it. Leaving their families. The first Ultimate Fighter I did, we had two holidays. I'm counting Halloween is when I realized that isn't a holiday. But if you have kids, that's a big day. These guys leave their kids. They don't get to see them dress up. And then we had Thanksgiving. They don't even get a call home. One guy had the birth of his first child. He did not get to call and check on his wife. I mean, it's a big deal what goes on. And they're very strict. I don't know why they are, Joe. I realize that for reality TV, that turmoil is to build something. But I'm kind of looking at going, you know what? Let's do this little nine to five deal. Send them home. Give them their cell phones. Let these guys just be regular guys. It's hard enough. Well, part of it is people talk too much. They tell too many secrets. They explain what's going on. They talk to press. They give inside scoops. That will only be revealed. I promise you, this won't be revealed until the show goes to air. There's a lot of fuckery that goes on with people that are on reality shows. That's what they're trying to avoid. That's a funny word. Fuckery is one of my favorite words. It's a great word. Yeah, there's truth to that. But your appearance on The Ultimate Fighter in Brazil with Van Dule too, it sort of changed. Van Dule's public opinion right now is very high. People like him again. And one of the reasons why they like him is because he got fucked over by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Hardcore. They banned him for life for missing a drug test, which I just think is fucking tyranny. I think that's straight bullshit. I think that that is a fucking horrible miscarriage of justice. If you think the guy was doing something, then you find him and you ban him for the amount of time that you need to based on if he was guilty. That's it. You don't get to do life. That's fucking crazy. To be so callous, to show that you are a governing body and that you are taking care of the future of these athletes and supposedly protecting them from other athletes that are cheating or from whatever other nonsense, whatever other illegal activity might be going on. And to take that position of power and to flagrantly abuse it in that way where you're openly showing them that you don't give a fuck about them. You don't care about their career. You don't care that it's the only way they have to make a living. You're just going to ban them for life because they missed a drug test. So let me give you another side to this too. Van Dule never told his side. Van Dule got pissed and he yelled and he went to crea. He did all of these things, but he never just sat down and told his side calmly. So here's Van Dule's side. And when you hear this, you're going to side with Van Dule. Here's what happened. I was the first guy ever tested in this random out of competition testing. So none of us knew what it was. And you have to take that time into perspective because now guys understand, look, you get a knock on the door. You must comply. But I was the first one ever to. We'd never heard of this. A guy shows up. Van Dule was to be the second one tested, but did it test. In hindsight, I shouldn't have tested. I'm not even sure they were within their rights. And this is relevant. They show up. The guy has no ID, absolutely no identification of who he is. I think that's a problem to start with. He then wants to take me into a back room, which ended up being a janitor's clause, not sanitary, a back room at the MGM Grand. He takes me in there where I must de-robe and present to him my penis because he watches. Now that's a very private thing. No ID. He wants to see your dad. Yeah. And they need to, I understand now, and I think a lot more of us do too, that you have to get naked and do this. You've got wiz and you've got all these weird things going on. At that time though, that's a weird thing. Now we're in the back of the MGM Grand in a dirty closet and I'm presenting to a stranger who refuses, not only doesn't offer ID, refused to give ID. And I tried to take a picture of the son of a bitch and he told me I could not do that. Why I backed down and didn't take, I don't know. I just accepted his authority. Why didn't you call me? Yeah, exactly. I should have. But I was caught off guard. This had never been done before and I'm kind of just going along, but I am caught off guard by this. He then wants to stick a needle into your vein and draw blood. I'm in a back unsanitary room. Anything I've ever learned in school. You don't do things with intervete needles. This guy has no ID. He's not in a lab coat. Doesn't look the part at all. So now I presented myself naked to him and now he's got a needle in my vein and I'm signing paperwork that I haven't had time to read. So when he goes to, now understand I speak English, we at least speak the same language, also take into consideration the kind of guy, in fairness, the perfectly nice guy trying to feed his family, but in fairness, what kind of person says I want to go around and collect people's pee? It's an interesting kind of guy. So I'm with an interesting character to start with. Now I'm naked. Now he's poking me with needles in a dirty back room at the MGM Grand. He leaves there and goes to test Vandalay. Well, when you take everything I said into consideration, nobody knew about random testing. Nobody knew about his side. Nobody knew anything about this out of competition. So for Vandalay to go, hey, I don't know who you are. You're not presenting ID. I don't fully understand you. That's fair. And Vandalay talked to him and said, you want me to sign a contract, get my attorney on the phone, show me what this thing says. You know, he's kind of going through the, and the way the story was told is that Vandalay just turned and ran. Well, that wasn't true. He stood his ground and talked to this guy for a while. He said, get on the phone with an attorney, prove to me who you are. He did all of these things. And then finally said, look, I got to get to a press conference. I'm leaving, got in his car and drove right to the MGM for the press conference. And I didn't have this backstory at the press conference, but that's what Vandalay did. So when the story came out that he turned and bolted out the back, that's not true. He stood and talked to the guy. He tried to reason with him. Vandalay's never told calmly his side of the story. And that's his side. And that makes a lot of sense. Even in today's standards, that makes sense. But back then, when no one knew that drug testers could be showing up and once they showed up, they would have been up that you needed to present yourself naked, that you needed to accept, you know, that they were going to draw blood. Yeah, man, Vandalay had the right to say, no, call my attorney. I don't know. I don't know what's going on here. And the guy wouldn't show ID. That's relevant. It's very relevant. And they banned him for life. It's crazy. Come on. No, the way you describe it, I didn't know it was that way. Yeah. Vandalay's never told it. All he's done is yell. And I've always thought, now wait, Vandalay, time out. You've actually got a really good side here. Yeah. Come and tell it. Now, under today's standards, it's a little bit different. Because we know what's going on. We know there's- We do know, but we don't know that some crazy internet troll can't pretend he's a USADA guy, show up, drag you into a bathroom and take a picture of your dick. Exactly. And won't let you, won't let, won't document who he is, won't let you just take a simple picture of him. Well, that's insane that they don't have to show ID. I mean, that's tyranny right there. Yeah. There has to be some sort of due process. And the athletes are already in a disadvantageous position in the first place. I mean, they can be fired. They mean this random thing that just shows up, which I don't know what kind of constitutionality or what kind of legality is involved in just randomly testing someone's bodily fluids. I mean, I guess you sign a contract agreeing to that. But boy, that feels shaky. Yeah. It feels like that can be disputed. And to your point, you now do sign a contract and you agree to go into this pool. But back then, we did not. You know, I was the first guy, Vandalay was the second guy. We both ended up with suspensions, but it was different. It's like, well, hey, wait, if you're going to do this, you got to tell us, or you got to tell me right on the spot, but you've got to at least prove who you are. And I would imagine the women must have women testers come out to watch them. But I don't know that for sure. You know, you hear this thing about these TSA pat downs and the women feeling violated. We haven't heard any women say that yet. But at some point, you know, I just think there's a fine line there. They might have to be a little bit careful. Well, Vandalay had his lifelong suspension thrown out. Right. So now he's still in limbo, though, because they haven't decided how long he gets suspended. And what they've done is, and by the way, how many years ago was this? What this took place? Three. Three years ago. So the man has not been able to earn a living in three years doing what he does best, which is fight. Right. And he is he's a legend. I mean, if you're going to have a mixed martial arts Hall of Fame and you don't include Vandalay Silva, you got a bullshit mixed martial arts Hall of Fame. I mean, you're talking about a guy who was the pro. Champion for a long time, you know, had incredible fights, legendary fights, and he's beloved. My point was when you and him went at it on the ultimate fighter, his fucking popularity crashed because you made him look foolish. He looks silly. He wanted to start a fight with you. He was trying to intimidate you and it wasn't working. You're like, please don't touch me. Please don't touch me. And then finally, you wind up taking him down and just like, geez, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, it was it was really weird. And, you know, trying to explain that to Vandalay on the set, what was a battle to and and Vandalay walked out on the very first day. He demanded an apology. He said, yeah, he comes in front of every but cameras are rolling. We're about to pick teams. So he's got all the guys there and his way of taking the moral high ground was to demand. I apologize. And if I don't, then he's going to be a bad guy. And I said, Vandalay, why did you put yourself in that position? I'm not going to apologize. But why would you say you're going to quit? Now you have to quit. Now you have to walk out. So he does. When I when I call his but he walks off the set. Camera stop everything. They put us in the back and and I'm telling the producers I'm not going to come out and apologize. Call Vitor. Vitor will come out and do it. We'll have Vitor on a plane. That's how we're going to solve. Now we can't call Vitor. We got to work this out with Vandalay. Could you please apologize? I said, look, I want the show to go forward. But this is the storyline. The storyline is the bad guy has come to Brazil. Vandalay gets to be the white knight on the horse. Let's continue the script. So I had to talk to Vandalay in a private room. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. I had to talk to Vandalay. Vandalay did not want to talk to Vandalay. He did not. He is going to have to be going through a process, and he is going to have to be going through a process.22. He agreed with me on that. He goes, I understand that, but I don't like how you did that. I said, great, then here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this show. I'm going to continue to be the bad guy, and then we're going to fight. If you're so sure you're going to win, this is your moment. He was raining on me for the Anderson thing. I said, family, did you see how that fight worked out? I took my punishment, man. I had to eat it all. It's an embarrassing thing, but I did it. That's my payback for that. You and I are in a separate deal. You're trying to insert yourself in an Anderson fight. Anderson already took care of that matter. He handled his, but now you got to handle yours. It was just a weird thing, and we just couldn't come around. Well, you are an interesting guy to get into these altercations with because you're very logical, and because you can say a bunch of crazy shit and not take it personal. I just don't think that he has that kind of mentality. His mind is, today we fight to death. That's a good impression, by the way. That's him. He just wants to throw down. He expected you to butt heads with him, and you're like, hey, man, come on. We're here to make some money. We're on TV. We're going to promote this. No, no, no, no. Brazil insult. You know bad guy. There was no fucking way. He just came into this with this idea that he was going to go shoot the box style, that he was going to get in your face and get angry, and maybe you guys would brawl in the set, but you just weren't having it. I wasn't having it, but I also understood this. It's like, Van Dyl, I want to be the bad guy, and this is my brand, and this is what I'm doing. I'm the only guy on that side of the pool, because I'm the only guy that's willing to be. I'm the biggest heel in the business right now. I know this. If I come into your country by myself and not speak in the language, and you team up, you gang, you team up on me, I become vulnerable. If they see me as vulnerable, they're going to like me. I don't want to be like. You're ruining everything. I knew if push came to shove, they're going to take Van Dyl aside. I'm going to come in short, but in the world of public opinion, I'm going to come out on the top, which I've worked very hard. I don't want to be on that side. That's not where I'm trying to be. I'm down there, okay? I'm all by myself, which means I'm ruling that part of the market. I was pleading with him when he was trying to get in a street fight. I remember even saying to him, please stop. Van Dyl, please. I don't want to do this. Let's get a date. Let's save it for the octagon. He saw there's weakness, and as soon as he saw the weakness, he started picking on me. He's like, Van Dyl, if you pick on me, I become likable. I don't want that. That's what this is all about. I'm down there. You guys be down here. I'll be the nerd sitting at the end of the pool by himself, but that's still my end of the pool. Well, you approach this in a very calculated way, which is very rare for people when they're doing promotion for fights. There's shit talking. People say I'm the best ever. They brag. They do all sorts of different things, but it's very rare that they purposely put themselves in one position, and you did it on purpose. You were the only guy that really had a vision. You're like, look, everybody out here is doing it one way, but there's a way to do it completely over the top. You obviously had skills to back it up as well, but you were completely over the top, and you cherished the role. When you took the microphone and went, Anderson Silva, you absolutely suck. The whole place starts cheering. It's like, he's going straight pro wrestling here. You're the first guy to ever do that. Right. Yeah, let's cut a promo. It's entertainment. We are in entertainment, and I firmly believe when one fight ends, the marketing for the next fight begins right then, right that moment. People are paying attention the most. I hear people tell you all the time, who do you want to fight next? You're giving them an opportunity. You're softballing them right down the middle, and they say, anybody. Their message, what they want to be relayed is, I'm not a bully. I'll take on anybody. I'll take on all comers. I don't care. I get that. That's not what people are hearing. If you say you don't care, how can you expect anybody else to? If you tell the whole world, I don't care who I'm fighting, well then how in the hell can a fan care? How can they care about you? You've got to care. Whether it's a personal thing, whether it's a career move, whether it's a title, whatever it is, you have to care, and there has to be an answer. If you don't care, I don't care. Nobody's ever gotten a job, Joe, by telling the guy interviewing him, I don't care. Well, then I can't hire you. I just can't hire you. Yeah, especially if there's someone who does care. Now there's a- Imagine if when I tried to get on your podcast today, if you'd have said, hey, are you free on Monday? And I go, I don't care. You go, well, then I'll just call somebody else, Chael. I need a guy in the studio that wants to be here. Well, sure you do. I want to be here. Well, I wouldn't worry about that with you. If you said, I don't care, I said, Billy, good, Chael's in a weird mood. This is going to be a fun podcast. Fair enough. But there's an odd psychology that goes along with fighting. And one of the things that happens to people when they're preparing for a fight, and you could speak to this, is that there's a sort of compulsion or a feeling that you would like to avoid thinking about the fight as much as possible. There's a natural sort of attraction to just putting it aside. Let's just not think about this. Let's not think about this at all. Let's only focus on the task at hand. And when the task at hand is over, then we're going to take a break. And when a fight is over and the relief has hit a guy, to shift gears and go straight into promo mode, sometimes guys have done it, and they've done it, and it comes off artificial. And it comes off clunky, and it actually hurts them more than it helps them. It seems like it takes a very specific type of personality to be able to pull that off correctly. I think that's fair. Yeah, and I've seen some guys do it, and Ben Rothwell comes to mind. Rothwell has some pocketed, and even an awkwardness or something to see there, it's not a total miss. It does come across as pocketed and scripted. My only advice to Rothwell is, if you have a pocketed statement and you're not ready for the follow-up question, drop the mic and walk away. Hit your bit and exit stage left. Yes, it's very hard to say something you want to say, and when the follow-up question comes, you go back into being yourself. That's very hard. If you take a character, you finish the character until it's done. And if you're stuck, walk away. Yeah, like Daniel Cormier when I interviewed him after he beat Rumble Johnson. John Jones, get your shit together. That's it. Right. It was perfect. It was great. It was perfect. So Daniel, let's stay on Daniel. Daniel this week was in one of the ... It was a very weird spot. So Daniel comes in. He's not just the good guy of MMA Joe. He's the great guy. Never will somebody meet that guy face to face and go, what a jerk. Never. Well, what's amazing is how much he gets booed. That's my point, but everybody hates him. You then have John Jones, who is a real life heel that wants to be loved, and for some reason the crowd used to be against him, and now they find out he's really ... Find out who he is, they love it. They're in. Why do they love him more? They love him more. Now that he keeps fucking up. Daniel Cormier was at a press conference with Jones, and Jones says, I've been sober for three months, and the crowd goes crazy. They then shoot the camera over to Daniel. The whole crowd starts ... He hasn't even said anything. They all start booing. Daniel takes a mic and goes, you guys are cheering that he's been sober for 90 days. I've been sober for 36 years. They boo him again. They hated it. So Daniel gets put in this weird spot. He brings that momentum into this fight. He then becomes vulnerable. His heart's out there. He shows the world that he takes the high road. He says, I think that John Jones made a mistake. I've made mistakes before he starts telling these personal stories. His heart's out. He's in tears. He loves him. All of a sudden he goes into the fight. Anderson, boom. People love the appreciation. He stepped up. Great middleweight. All these different things. Daniel gets beat, or rather beats him. Crowd boos, and then Daniel tries to address the audience, explaining himself. It's like, Daniel, a couple of rules in politics. First off, you steer into a problem. If a crowd wants to boo, you don't ever ask them for their approval. You take the mic. You hold your bell to pie. You thank them all for the percentage of their ticket sales that you got. You tell them to shove their opinion up their ass, and you walk away. If you're explaining, you're losing. Do not explain yourself. Do not say, I had to do what I had to do. I'm tired of the misrepresentations in fighting. It comes all the way from the top. We hear that the fans want two guys that are going to go out there and bang. Well, that's not true. The biggest draw in the history of the sports, George St. Pierre, he never went out there and banged with anybody. We need finishes. It is a very handsome man. He's very marketable. I will concede that. The bottom line is, that's not necessarily what people want. The exact same game plan that Cormier did is what Lesnar did five minutes later, and everybody loved it. That's not what it's about. They decided they want to see Anderson win. They weren't upset that they were on the ground. They weren't upset that they weren't on their feet because they knew that's where Anderson could knock him out, and they decided they were going to cheer for Anderson. Cormier should have just told them to shove it up their ass, and they'd be stuck. Yeah, but that's not him. At all. But he wants to be liked. He wants to be liked, Joe. I understand that, but that's not the way to be liked. The only way to be liked is him to beat the shit out of Jon Jones. I mean, that is the only way. Because right now, he's got a title that, let's just be completely honest about what it is. It's not a title that he beat the champion to get. Sure. They had to take it away from the champion, and the public recognizes that. While Jon Jones may be screwing up a lot, he may have all these problems outside of the octagon. Inside the octagon, no one has been able to best him. He's amazing. And because of that, people are on his side, because people love winners. They just do. They love Mike Tyson when he was in his prime. Even when he came out of jail for alleged rape, he claims he never did it. I don't know what happened, obviously. But when he came out of jail, they were still rooting for him. Here's a guy who, if you have daughters, I have daughters. If you have a girl and you hope, boy, the worst case scenario is my daughter finds herself in a position where a man wants to physically do something to her that she doesn't want. People didn't give a fuck. They were like, Mike Tyson's back. He's back, and he's looking angry, and he's ripped now. He's been doing prison workouts. There's something about a guy who's just a bad motherfucker that people love. And there's a thing where they know that Daniel feels that. There's a thing where they know that Daniel knows that John is the guy who won the first fight, that John is the legitimate linear champion, that John is the undefeated fighter, and literally the only undefeated fighter at that level. He has one loss to Matt Hamill, which is a bullshit disqualification from a dumb fucking rule that should need to be there. Which you've said a million times. Nobody's more angry about that than you. John Jones is not as frustrated about that loss as you are. He was mad at that. The law, the rule is madness, and it only exists. I talked to big John McCarthy about this extensively. Only exists because the commission was ignorant. They didn't understand that those brick breakers ... It's not that hard to break a fucking brick, man. It seems crazy, but it's really just not, especially when they're spread wide like that. But John Jones has that aura of invincibility about him. Now, if he fought Rumble Johnson, Rumble Johnson head kicked him into oblivion, and we see John with his toes curled, lying on his back snoring, which absolutely can happen to any human. Then the whole thing would change. I think the walls would come crumbling down, and if John did a press conference and said he was 30 days sober, they would start booing him. They wouldn't give a fuck. I think that's fair. Yeah, you're right. America does love success. Fans are front runners. They've got the right to be. But yeah, historically that is how it worked. When you talk about Rumble Johnson and John Jones, man, we got to get that matchup done. They fucked up. The whole thing is fucked up, and that hasn't happened, because he's in real danger with Glover. That air of invincibility was taken away from him by Daniel. Daniel beat him, and he broke him. Daniel beat him down, took his back, choked him. You could see Rumble just having a real hard time with what was going on in that fight. He had given his all in that first round. He had hit Daniel with a bomb, literally took him off of his feet, sent him flying across the octagon. But Daniel was tough as fuck. He survived. He gutted it out, and then he imposed his superior wrestling and wound up winning. We lost a lot there, because that fight was supposed to be John Jones and Rumble Johnson. Then John Jones and Rumble Johnson would have been fucking epic. That would have been really interesting to see what happens when a guy who hits like Rumble connects with a guy like John. Especially back then, when we didn't know what would happen. We knew that Josh Kostchek had beaten him, that he had real hard time in the later rounds when he was competing at 170. We also knew that there's no fucking way he should have been at 170. Even when he fought Vitor at 185, it was kind of the same thing. He came out like a bat out of hell, and then faded. We assumed that he also missed 185 against Vitor. By seven pounds. Yeah, he had a notorious problem with his weight. We kind of attributed a lot of his failures to that. We see him at heavyweight, beat the shit out of Arlovski, break his jaw in the first round, just tool him for three. We say, okay, Rumble at 205 is the fucking man. We missed that. We missed that opportunity. Yeah, I agree. When you bring up Rumble, Rashad, who trained with both John Jones and Rumble, says Rumble beats him. Now, Rumble only does have one problem. He is a front runner, and he does fade a little bit. That's a big storm that he brings. RDA fights that way. Amanda Nunes fights that way. Our own teammates were saying, look, if she gets into second, third round, I don't know about this, but she's going to bring a storm in that first round. I don't think Misha can survive it. I talked to Dustin Poirier. He trains with Amanda, and he said that. He goes, well, if he gets into the later round, her percentage goes down. He said, but I think she's going to come out. She's going to put her foot on the gas, empty the tank in the first. I don't think Misha's going to be around. You're right. Isn't that fascinating, those fast twitch muscle fiber fighters, those ones who explode, the really dynamic ones? There's a fucking give and a take to everything. Those ones, they just don't survive into the third, fourth, and fifth round with the same pep. Let's back up. I made a note here on the Jon Jones thing. Did you follow the whole Jon Jones drama? The most recent one. The only post-drama, yeah, was that he had a press conference the next day. Did you follow that press conference at all? I saw the crying pictures. I think Jamie sent them to me. I went to that press conference, and there was a couple of takeaways. This is all speculative. This doesn't make Jon innocent at all. Jon's guilty. They've got the samples guilty, but his actions were not that of a guilty man. Historically, guilty guys go bury their head in the sand. They try to outrun this thing. They get with their legal teams. They show up at the hearing. They hope for the best. They get the worst, and they deal with it. Jon faced the music 12 hours later. He came through the hotel. His whole life's pulling apart right now. I imagine he didn't even sleep that night. He comes to the hotel with the fans. He comes into the media. PR101 says you read a script that was written for you, and you exit the stage. Instead, he read no script. He took every question asked of him, and that's just not what a guilty guy does. Now, I understand that he's guilty in terms of USADA, but what we care about is intent. Was he trying to get over on somebody? Was he trying to hide something? His actions would represent that he didn't, but here was the problem with the press conference, Joe. When you hold a press conference, you have one goal in mind, which is to win over the media and that they say nice things about you before you do go home and bury your head in the sand. Secondly, you want to break something. You want to get something out there to get ahead of the story. That's the whole reason you show up at these things. The only card that he had to play is what did you test positive for? That was the only thing we didn't know, and they refused to reveal it. That was a little bit weird. Where I was sitting, because I've been at Jon's spot, and here was the thing that happened with me. We're talking about Jon. This whole thing's going on with Jon based on a test that took place on June 16th. The reason that was relevant, when I went through my thing, he tested positive for some estrogen blockers. Those don't really have anything to do with anything. They're silly. I think you might have just revealed something. Yeah, he tested positive for two estrogen blockers. Yeah, but no one else knew that. There you go. I'm revealing it. How dare you. He broke personal information. That's what we're doing here, though, right? Wow, but this is like ... The only way that anybody could find that out is if you talked about it. Boom. It's out there, right? Isn't that what we're doing here? Aren't we creating some news? It's a big news day. Here's the relevance. Let me tie myself into this. When I went through this joke, I had something silly in there. In fact, I had an estrogen blocker. I had something silly in there. Everybody forgave. I was going to be suspended, but Fox, I was fine. Everybody looked and said, okay, we changed the rules and the test and everything was fine. I was in love with. What only I knew was there was another test out there, but the results hadn't come back yet, and I didn't know what that test was going to show. I know what it could have shown. I knew what it should have shown, but I knew what the other test could have and should have as well. You're sitting there hoping, how good is this damn test? That's all you're thinking about. Well, you and I had a conversation. You're the guy called ... You were on stage, and I'm blowing you up. You're like, hey, man, I'm doing a show. Can I call you tomorrow? Tonight, I will say capital letters. Tonight. I need to hear from you tonight. Yeah, I remember the exact words. You said, well, you know we were wondering how stringent these new tests are? Turns out they're really good. Turns out it's a pretty good test. Turns out it's not like the old 1-800 requested test that cost $99. There's a reason this test is 40 plus grand. The thing that I'm wondering, does John have another test out there? If he does, it doesn't mean it's going to come back, but that was the same spot I was in. That could drop. For me, it did. For him, is there another test out there? If there's not, then Usada's got some explaining to do. If you're telling me a guy that's got a track record, the tested positive for cocaine, going to fight in the biggest fight of his career, and the last time you tested him was one month before the bout, then Usada's got some explaining to do. There's more to the story. Now, do we hear it? Does he pass? Does he end up in the spot? I don't know, but that's the piece that's still missing. There's one aspect to his test, his positive test, that people are saying could possibly play a factor, and it's supplements. He could possibly have been taking something that, like, this is what happened to Tim Means, this is what happened to Yoel Romero, where they get a supplement, and it says it has a bunch of stuff on it. It says, you look through the ingredients, okay, creatine, B12, we're good. And then, when you run it through a lab, it turns out there's a bunch of other stuff in there, too. And that's why it's so effective, and that's why it sells. So it is possible that that could be the case. We don't know yet, because then if that's the case, then John has to give them all the supplements that he was taking, and then they have to go to a store, buy them independently, test them, and verify that these ingredients were in not just the batch that he hands them, but also in other batches. So it's not like he doctored it, threw some stuff in there. But estrogen blockers are usually when people are getting off of steroids. Right. When you're coming off a cycle. Yeah, and it's a blocker. You know, men don't want estrogen anyway, but it's a blocker. It's not going to... So as far as that substance goes, and that's all he's going to have to live with. He's not going to have to live a speculation. Explain how they work, like, for someone who doesn't understand. All that an estrogen blocker will do, if you up your testosterone, then your estrogen just naturally ups. And guys don't want estrogen. So if you're a guy, you take a blocker that can block that, bring it to you, you won't get, you know, the man boobs. There you go. I'm trying to think of the word, gasto. I can't even... Bitch, that's all that comes to mind. I can't think of the word. What is the word? We're close. Gynom? Gynom? Gynomastica. At any rate, it can stop some of those things. So that's the speculation. The reason that that's on the list is they find that that's a way they can catch you after the fact. Hey, if we missed you doing the cycle, we can catch you here. Well, it's not just that. The reason why they take it after the cycle is because you get hypogonadism. Your body stops producing testosterone because you took exogenous testosterone. And so to restart it, they take this stuff, these estrogen blockers. That's right. Yeah. I tested positive for an estrogen blocker and it was that exact same thing. They banned testosterone. I went on something called HCG, which will return your testes back on. And then you have to take chlomaphene, which is by definition an estrogen blocker for that same thing, but can also help get your body going back on testosterone. So they're banned. John's got a problem. Again, this comes back to the press conference. He said, I have not taken anything new that I have not taken my entire career. So somebody gave him a follow-up question. He quickly realized what he just said. And he goes, I do have a new supplement company. I have taken some new supplements. So he realized he put himself in one pool. He needed to get out of it. The supplement company then who dropped him immediately came out with a press release and said, do not put this on us. We don't have anything to do with that and we'll turn over any samples you want. That's the downside to holding a press conference is if there's anything the commission hates, it's when somebody isn't honest with them. Well, if there's anything USADA hates and it's what Lance Armstrong found out, it's when you deny the scientific accuracy of their test. That's the risk with holding a press conference. That's why most legal teams will tell you, go home, be quiet, write to remain silent, execute that, show up at your hearing date, get sworn in, say your piece, and then go on about your life. How does John not have a trusted handler? How does John not have someone who realizes that you don't just have like a high level athlete? You have arguably the greatest light heavyweight of all time who has not, in my opinion, reached his potential yet. I think John has massive potential outside of what he's actually shown because when he moved to Albuquerque and we saw that he was training all the time and we saw the most recent footage before he fought Oven St. Proulx where he's powerlifting, he looks fucking huge, he's dedicated, he's eating clean, he's making these Instagram videos of all this healthy food he's eating. We're assuming he's getting the proper rest and all these other things. We're assuming, okay, the wild man days are gone. He's still got the wild man's mind, but now he's going to approach this like a real competitive athlete. Here's my question to you. When someone is wild and talented and impulsive, just a wild motherfucker like John Jones is, is it even smart to rein that guy in? Can it affect him? Is it a positive thing to rein him in or is part of what he is and why he's so good and why he's willing to open with a flying knee on Shogun, their first fight, the first fight for a title, what was he, 23? Yeah, 24. He opens up with a flying knee. One of the legends of MMA, former pride champion or pride grand prix champion and UFC champion as well. You look at a guy like John and the way he competes and the way he's so creative and wild and impulsive, it's almost like that's a part of his success. I fully agree and historically I could bring up athletes where that is true, where they go sober, where they go straight and narrow, when they find God, whatever these things are and they change something that, yeah, the dominoes start to fall. The problem is when you've got a wild man like John, he's in a box and it's a loose box and he's having some fun, but usually that continues to escalate. So he kind of needs to keep himself right in that framework and the bad news is it usually just keeps pushing. That's a very important thing. That becomes a problem. That's a very important point where people escalate things. Like billionaires want more billions, right? They want islands now. They want fucking jets and spaceships and with a pro athlete or a wild person who's doing crazy shit, they want to do more crazy shit. They want to drive 150 miles an hour. They want to, man, but it just seems like whatever the fuck you do, just nerf everything around him, you know? Buy up the town. Have three guys that he trusts, follow him around everywhere and make sure that he doesn't eat anything that he's not supposed to eat. Don't take any pills you're not supposed to take. Most of us don't drive. I mean, that was his biggest problem was getting behind the wheel in front of everything else he was doing. It's like, John, you got to get a chauffeur. You got to get Uber. You got to take a taxi. Don't get behind the wheel. That was the most of his problems. You had some other ones, but that was the most of it. If you just took him out of the driver's seat, a lot of this doesn't exist. Yeah, a lot of it doesn't exist, but this most recent one obviously does. The most, yeah, he had those two major car accidents where he had that beautiful Bentley and slid it into a tree. And then obviously the one where he crashed into that woman and left the scene in the crime, which was horrendous. He survived that though. He survived that. He came back in the Oven St. Proof fight. He won. He beat a top six guy on short notice, and then this happens. As you get positive on something as small and innocuous as estrogen blockers. I agree. So you go back to that Oven St. Proof fight. Single worst performance is a performance of John's career. Single worst by light years. Then you break it down a little further. He won the grappling. He won the striking. He won every round. He didn't back off. He didn't get tired. He was stronger. And that was on a bad day. I didn't think it was a bad fight. Everyone says it's a single worst performance. I have a great deal of respect for Oven St. Proof. And I think Oven is a very dangerous guy. He's very explosive. His left power kick is extremely strong. He has a nasty left hook. He's a southpaw. And he fights odd. He has a very odd style. I would agree about Oven's. I think your assessment there is fair. And I think his stock went up that night. But when I'm watching John, I'm going, okay, this is a rusty John. This is slower. The output's a little bit down. The bottom line is on a bad day, he left with a world championship. That's how good he is. The other side of John, when you're talking about the car wrecks or when we're talking about the cocaine or what he's going through now. And again, this was my takeaway from the press conference. The biggest takeaway was John won't own anything. And it's like, John, at some point you can't do the routine about, I don't know why God put me in this spot. I don't know why God put me in this spot. Everything happens for a reason. I'm going to come out better on the other side. It's like, John, you're acting like you got diagnosed with diabetes or cancer or something, you know, and that you're the victim. You were in a hit and run. You did the hitting and you did the running. That was your fault. On the cocaine thing, you didn't say somebody slipped me a Mickey. You said I was at a party in Brazil. I rolled up a hundred and went down to the table. That was your fault. Now you're in a jam here for two banned substances and you're still not taking a response and you think God's put you in this spot. It's like John said, you put yourself in this spot and at some point if you're the baddest dude in the world and you are, you got a man up on these things. You got a man up and go, hey, I'm guilty. And how exactly it happened, I'm going to try to figure that out. But I'm definitely guilty. Sada does a good job. I trust those labs. Let's get to the bottom of it. jail, son, in public relations. This is what we need. We need a little earpiece. You put in John Jones ear. You sit behind the screens. You have a monitor. You go, no, no, no, no, no, John. This is not just stop. Stop right there. But no more victim. No more victim. Yeah. You stand up like Tony Montana in that fucking restaurant. You're looking at the bad guy. There it is. Say hello. There it is. Say hello to the bad guy. Yeah. I like to party, bitch. I fucked up. I took some shit. What supplements would have testosterone blockers or estrogen blockers? Excuse me. None that I've ever heard of. And again, but if you're this. But if they boost testosterone, right? Estrogen blockers, apparently, is more of an effective testosterone. How's it work? I've never heard that. Now that could be true. I think of myself as kind of an expert in this field from being on the wrong side, but being on both sides of it. But I've never heard of that. I can't imagine why a supplement company would do that. And this supplement company wasn't like Tim Means' company or Yoel Ramirez. They came out with a press release instantly. So do not put this on us. Let us know what you need from us. We'll drop it off at the lab ourselves. Jamie, see if you find this online because someone told me about it this weekend and I never got a chance to look at it. Someone said that there are certain things in supplements that could have been sold by a company that would allow you to test positive for these very things. See if you can find that in relationship to John Jones' test. Because I remember someone talking about it and I said, I got to remember to look this up. Those two chemicals, they only exist in a pharmaceutical world, right? Yeah, that's right. So it's not like it's a root or something and you can act? No. And then what exactly they got it for? I mean, that's still coming out. But that was one of the things, again, to go back to the press conference. And I think John did more good than he did bad. I think it was kind of a good thing that he came out, he showed courage, he didn't read a script, he answered all the questions. But the bad was he didn't tell us what he tested positive for. And the bad news, now he's stuck with speculation. If he would have come out and told us exactly what it was, you and I would have to guess and go to the internet and speculate on rumors as to what you don't need. I don't know why he held that with understanding. Usada's going to tell us. If you don't tell us Usada will. No, I don't. I really think they're going to charge him and they are. I think you're getting sued. Well, if they're going to charge him and they are within the event, oh, then I'm going for breaking it. You're typically one. It's medical information. You'll take it a while. Well, no, not if it's medical information. I suppose you're right with HIPAA, but this doesn't fall under that. The commission's going to bring charges against him for certain supplements. They're going to bring him in, require that he's there. They're going to have to address it. Then he's going to say his piece. Look, I took this. I didn't think I'd get caught or I don't know anything about it. That's a route guys go as well. But the bottom line is it's going to come out. I thought he had a good opportunity to tell us what it was and perhaps give a guess as to how it got in his system. If he's going to take that path, the outright denial path, that's not a great one historically, but some guys take it. That's the route he's going to go to of outright denial. Tell us what it is. Oh, yeah, here we go. Substance test warning. Bodybuilders and other athletes subjected to substance testing should never use this product unless first approved by the validating organization. Product may cause a drug test result called false positive urine or blood. What is this stuff? Oh, is this the company that John uses? Oh, shit. That guy's clean. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. All that guy's doing is taking Testogen. Look at the fucking guy. Oh, my God. This is hilarious. When you go to this GATT website and you know, I don't know what's in there. I don't know if this is a good company. I know nothing other than what I'm seeing right now. You're looking at a guy in their photos that's fucking clearly on steroids. Fucking clearly on steroids. He's on Testogen. He's on Testogen. If that guy, that massive mountain of muscle is not on steroids, send me that shit. Send it to me. Box it up. I'll fucking promote it for a month for free. If you can get that guy to look like that and test positive or test negative, like that guy's not on Anadrol 50 and fucking test sip and eight and every other fucking thing in the book and Gorilla Com and whatever the fuck he's on, that's a whole... You should not... I hate to be the guy. Why is the white guy so skinny in the background? Look at that photo again. It kind of looks like Greg Jackson's brother a little bit, doesn't it? What's that white guy doing in the background? That white guy has a skinny neck and he's flexing them, but they're not really that impressive and he's in the back looking at this black guy. This is some cuckold type shit. That's what this is. This black guy is just doing curls and he's about to fuck this shit out of his girl. And the other guy is looking through the curtain like, man, I don't even know what to do here. Look at his face. He's not lifting. What is that guy doing in the back? He's got minimal chest development. He looks kind of scrawny. I was suspect he has something to do with the company or his father does. That's generally how these things work out. That's bizarre. That's a bizarre choice. Why is that distracting guy over that gentleman's shoulder? Some guy's looking at his arms like, yeah, fucking look, I'm getting big. This got shit is working good, man. I'm getting big, bro. Oh, I'm clean. I got a dog tag on. Probably never been in the military. Just a little luck to wear dog tags, let everything go. I'm going to war. That's like a dog tag with like, it's like bedazzled. See it's got like tuning on that. See it's got like on the outside edge of it. It's got like little fucking rhinestones and shit. It's a black dog tag too. It's not even a real dog tag. It's what, that is a weird fucking photo shoot. I don't understand it. So there it is. So there are directions for testogen. Let's go to that directions. I want to find out what I'm supposed to do to get like that guy. Is this the company that John's with or this is just what we brought up? Oh, this is John's. No, this is the company. Okay. On training and non-training days, as a dietary supplement, take two to three tablets with breakfast and rather two to three tablets with lunch every day. After six weeks of continual use, one month break is recommended. So it's a cycle. It's a test. Okay. What are the ingredients? Let's go all the way up. What do we got here? Vitamin E, vitamin B6, magnesium, zinc, selenium, chromium. No problem there. Okay. Testogen mass strength and size formula. 3B hydroxy 5, androsten. Sten not stein, 17, 1. Okay. 3, 1H indol, 3, 1H indol. Okay. Yeah. These are tricky little things. Beta-cytosterol from soy and other vegetable oils. Okay. I don't know why you have to tell me that. I-prove-um-um-um-um-um-um. Bunch of bullshit after that. They always throw, okay, wild yam root, 25 milligrams. That's nonsense. Wild yams are where they get testosterone from. They actually extract testosterone. They make it out of wild yams. When a company throws in 25 milligrams of wild yam, what are you doing? You're just trying to pretend that that's significant. Your wild yam root. A lot of goofy stuff in here. Ginseng extract. Why do you have ginseng? Yeah. Well, come on. He's not taking it. What, you think John Jones is waking up and taking this stuff? Why not? If it doesn't... Beta-alanine works. It's got 500 milligrams of beta-alanine. That stuff's legit. I mean, how do you say it? Mucuna parensis, purensis, extract. That's been known to boost human growth hormone, I believe. But I'm looking at all this stuff that he's doing. I might be wrong about that. I don't even know how to say that word. I don't even know if he was officially taking this particular supplement. I just, when I Googled that company and just... This is the first one that came up. Of course, right. Yeah. So this is just buy that company. We don't know. All these things are estrogen blockers. So it doesn't make sense unless he got a tainted supplement, which again, and this is not the fault of the company, happens all the time. Because the way a supplement company works, like say if you wanted to buy creatine or something from a company, you buy it in bulk from a supplier. And that supplier, you might be in China or who knows where, and they mix these things up and they use the same vats. Like that was the Anderson Silva story. That was his alibi. He said he was buying liquid Cialis and he was buying it from a company that also sold steroids. And apparently, according to people that know him, that is actually what happened, which sounds crazy. Very. Well, and he had three... He had three... That's positive for three things. So maybe that knocks one off the list. I hear you. There is some confusion there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that story's BS, but I hear what you're saying. There is confusion in there. Tim Means was innocent. 100%. Yeah. And Yoel Romero. They ruled that. That's not my opinion. They ruled that. Yoel Romero. I mean, you want to talk about not passing the smell test? That guy is a goddamn freak of nature. I've never seen a guy. Out of all the other freaks, he makes the other freaks look fucked up. Sure. And Frank Mir, that's a weird one too. Even their own science. They're confused on Frank Mir's because his metabolites were so low where they're going, well, look, you passed here, you passed here, but you didn't adhere for your metabolites to be this low. You would have had to have taken it six weeks before, but we tested you there. They're even confused on their science there. They've admitted that. They've gone, ah, this shows up. We got to do something with it, but we don't understand how you had this reading. And Frank's like, I'll tell you everything I did. I'll tell you everything I ate. I don't know how this works. You give me the answer. And they're even confused themselves. They're going, ah, this shouldn't be. It is. We got to deal with it, but shouldn't be. Did they test his supplements? Did they test the things that he was taking? Frank hadn't taken any supplements. That was the other thing he said. He fought in some different country. He goes, look, and everybody made fun of him for this, but he was just being honest. He said kangaroo meat. He said kangaroo meat. Yeah. And he knows how, he said, now the headlines made him look bad, but Frank was just being candid. He goes, look, the only thing I've done different, I was in this different country. I ate some kangaroo meat for the first time. Everyone teased him, but he's going, this is what Usada asked me. They asked me if you'd done anything different. Well, the IOC is telling athletes. Weird food. Certain parts of the world, in China and in Russia in particular, to not eat the meat. Because if you eat the meat, you could potentially test positive. Right. Depending on when it came in. So Frank offering them that was just, he got teased for it, but he was just being candid. He might be right. Yeah. He could be. He might have got some unscrupulous kangaroo meat. Yeah. And Frank's always been an open guy. He was on testosterone. He wasn't one of the guys that tried to hide it like the other guys. He went and asked for the tee. I mean, Frank's a pretty straight up guy. He's an open book. And it's not all great stuff. I mean, he'll tell you this. He'll tell you. Yeah. When Frank says I tend, I believe him. Yeah. I do as well. Yeah. He's just, and he has also a career of being straight up to start being deceptive now over something that doesn't really necessarily make sense. You know, after losing to Mark Hunt like that, this doesn't make sense. Sure. Doesn't make sense. The testosterone thing, that is another thing that I feel like was medically very irresponsible. The way they handled it and also that they didn't allow guys to take something like an estrogen block or something that, HCG or something that restarts your endocrine system. But yet they allow these guys to fight and schedule fights just a couple of months after getting off testosterone therapy. So you put these athletes in a very precarious situation where you're dangling this gigantic financial carrot in front of them. You know, you're saying, hey, man, we got a fight. You know, you're going to make X amount of dollars. This is going to be awesome for you. But here's the kicker. No more testosterone. Sure. All this stuff that's been making you feel good and making your camps go better and allowing you to recover faster, that shit's out the door. Right. So now you have to deal with not just your 37 year old endocrine system, which is, you know, fine, but a 37 year old endocrine system that needs to be restarted and you can't restart it. Yeah, that's right. And they do put them in a tough spot too. And I would be curious if this was ever tested in a court because they put them in an interesting spot where a guy gets advice from his doctor, which you're supposed to listen to, and he has to cross reference that advice with an athletic commission. And you're going, well, time out a second. We're not talking about illegal drugs here. We're talking about legal medicine, FDA approved medicine that I'm taking appropriately and in conjunction with my physician. And you're telling me I can't take it. And that even happens with common cold flu, Advil being some of these silly things that are over Anderson Silva. So he popped for that steroid, but two of the things he popped for were over the counter. One of them is a sleep aid that sits on the shelf next to Nyquil. None of us knew was banned until he got flagged for well, scratch our head. Okay. Maybe that's on the ban list. What does the sleep aid provide? Like as far as performance benefits? That's a, so everybody likes to go back to that and go, this doesn't help my performance. It's not a performance test. It's not a steroids test. It's not a drugs test. It's a banned substance test. And that's where they go way out of bounds sometimes. I mean, I think back to the Chinese gymnast where they stripped her metal in 2004 and kicked her out of the Olympics forever because she had a billionth of a trace of Ibuprofen, which has a street name of Advil. I'm going, this is silly. You know, this is silly. Go, well, it's an anti-inflammatory and that would help performance. That's a good thing to take some legal, to take a legal thing that you've found that can help your performance. Why would you take anything that could hurt you? That was another thing that John came out. He was so adamant that I took nothing to help my performance. I'm going, John, I don't know why that's the high. I can and of bad things you don't want to be associated with. You took Coke, which is a felony and can kill you, but now you're standing on the moral high ground that you didn't take anything that could help you. That's just weird. That's weird. It's a weird way to phrase it. If you say, I didn't take anything that would help my performance, then why should you take it? Say, no, say what the fuck you took and why you took it. Sure. Say what it is. But why would you take anything? It's a supplement or anything else. Why would you take it if you didn't have a reasonable expectation that it helped your performance? Because if you're not taking it for that, then you're taking it for the opposite. It has to be one of the two. Well, you're taking it for something else in life. Maybe you're taking it for anxiety, but that doesn't make any sense with what he was taking it. Look, Anderson was taking liquid COs because he likes to party. Why do people take different things that have nothing to do with athletic performance? They take it because there's a desired result. But what I'm saying, if you're trying to fall into the scope of a medicine, like an estrogen blocker would be, or testosterone, those are classified as medicine. And the media can call it drugs all they want. That's medicine under the FDA. You can't become a medicine unless you can reasonably prove that it's going to help a patient. You can't be a doctor, give somebody something that brings them down and makes them worse. That's malpractice. Well, here's one thing that I know for sure. So I'm saying that I know for sure why he denied that it would help his performance. Like, well, of course you took it to make you feel better. Whatever. I'm going to do right now for the caffeine. That's just what it is. Yeah, that helps your performance. And you were one of the first people to tell me that there's a very specific amount of caffeine that you're allowed to have. So you would take it in pill form. You wouldn't trust a cup of coffee. Right. Well, yes, that's true. That is true, but I just think that's a ridiculous one too. They say that to get... Now you'd have to be tested. Your body's all these different things, but they say that two cups of coffee in a 15 minute period will make you test hot. Now you'll only test hot for about 15 minutes because caffeine wears off so fast. But yes, if somebody was to come in right now, I got three different coffees in front of me, I could be above the limit on that. I'm sitting here going, I'm getting jazzed up to do a podcast. I'm not sure that that relates, but the rules are the rules. I'd be cheating. But is that out of competition since it has such a short life? Like if you came in here, is it because like when John tested positive for cocaine against Daniel, it was three weeks out, so it was out of competition. So it wasn't like he was fighting coked up. That's right. And there is two different sets of standards there. And caffeine's got to be... If you're out of competition, you must be fine. Advils and we talked about Advil. There is some that are only banned in competition. They're allowed out of competition and there's some no-nos forever. But that's where it starts to get confusing. And then the way they've handled it is to go, it's on the athlete. It's like, well, okay, fair enough. But athletes, particularly fighters, are the lowest form of society. You're the government. You can't just put it on the athletes. It's got to be... You're the government. You're operating on the taxpayer's dollar. You've got offices. You're making the rules. You take some responsibility, too. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And I think especially when you're talking about a medical issue like this testosterone therapy issue. I mean, it's worked itself out. The dust did settle in time. They allowed it to just play itself out. But I think a lot of guys got fucked over. And I hate to be a VTOR apologist, but... Because I've been such a... I was such a fan of TRT VTOR. You loved him. Oh my God. We all did. He was such a freak. He was great. When he fought Bisping and Rockhole, he's wheel-kicking people. TRT VTOR was fucking terrifying. But VTOR, when he fought Weidman, I remember feeling when he went into the octagon and I saw him bouncing around and his loose skin was moving all over his body. I was like, wow, this guy's fucked. His body's fucked. This is not a regular 37-year-old guy who's in shape who hasn't taken anything. This is a fucking world championship caliber pro athlete whose body's been just compromised. Like massively compromised. He's rebounded. He looks much better now. But God damn, he looked terrible then. And HCG is so important for that. Any doctor will tell you, if you go on testosterone, you got to then go on HCG. You got to turn that back on. He didn't have that benefit. The rules came in. He had two different flags and he just wasn't ready to go down that path. So he literally stopped everything cold turkey. Opposite of the advice of his doctor. I've never asked him about that. I just know his doctor would have said, look, this is what you need. And he goes, I'm out. There's no room for air here. They've changed the rules. I'm out. Well, that's what's crazy is they don't- And that could affect him long term, Joe. It certainly can. And certainly the beating that he took could affect him long term and the beating, there's a big factor of having incredibly low testosterone. He had very low testosterone when he went into that fight. There would be a possibility. Actually, see, that's not true. I should recant that because Weidman got in his face at the weigh-in and was saying, because he tested it 1200 and Weidman tested it three. And he was like, what the fuck is going on? How do you have four times as much testosterone as me? And I talked to Nowitzki about it. I was like, please explain to a moron like me what the fuck is going on? And they were saying, well, it's dependent. It's time dependent. It's how much available testosterone. When did they test him? Was he recovering from sleep? Was he at his peak? Had he done explosive athletics like squats or deadlifts very recently and then recovered as testosterone ramped back up? Did they catch Weidman after Weidman had a grueling workout and his testosterone was down? Right. There's a lot of factors apparently that play into that. And Weidman even said himself, he said, look, I kind of have low testosterone while TRT was legal. He's like, I could qualify for it. I can go in and qualify for it. I remember that very well. But Vitor did not have any, he did not have testosterone. His level was high in all of that, but he didn't have any endogenous testosterone in him. He had no supplement whatsoever. So that was a little bit misunderstood. And then also to your point, and then also to your point, Weidman when he was tested, if he would have been tested in the morning, it would have been down. If he would have just had a hard workout and chewed up a lot of the testosterone, it would have been down. So that was a little confusing. Vitor's hands were clean there and Chris was misunderstanding what he was reading and let loose on him. And Chris had every right to assume that Vitor was still trying to slip that through. That was the better part of his career. But in fairness, he wasn't. When Vitor goes, hey, I'm out, he really, he was out and they tested the hell out of Vitor. He's passed them all. Vitor went straight. Yeah, he had to. And his body really showed it. Well, when he fought Henderson, the third Henderson fight in Brazil, he looked like he was gaining his muscle mass back. He looked a little bit better, but he just does not look like TRTV Tori. Right. Physically, he's the guy that's had the biggest difference. And I feel like if you're going to say, you have to be off of it, I think it's ridiculous. I think, I mean, he wanted that title shot and it's really important to him, but I feel like that medically, they had a responsibility to give the guy a break. Like to say, we're going to give you six months of restorative therapy, allow your body to come back into a normal testosterone range and then reenter into the drug testing. And we'll test you during that time to make sure that you're not taking anything else on top of that. But to not allow the guy any sort of medicine that can restart his endocrine system seems very irresponsible when it's such a primary factor in performance. You're not talking about like fucking volleyball. You're talking about head kicks and the difference between getting beat up and not getting beat up between getting brain damage and not getting brain damage. That could play a huge factor in that. Right. Yeah. And I think in hindsight, I think the commission would have handled it different. They've kind of even said that, hey, we pulled the rug out here and they went as close to taking some of the responsibilities you could without taking it. And the other side was fighters. We should have been able to just go time, time out. I can't comply. But I want to be in compliance, but I can't right now. I'm taking my oars out of the water. I'm going to go do mine. Leave me out of it. Don't test me. I'll tell you right now, give me six months to your point. You'd almost have to retire. But none of us knew, see none of us knew what we didn't know. Like with Vannele, when the guy showed up, when the guy came to me and I'm in the closet with, none of us knew what was going on. It's kind of a different world now. You have to have that education process. Whatever John's going through, what Tim means, what frame, this is how we learn. We learn from guys stumbling and stubbing their toe. They just don't give a big allowance for that. It's pretty black and white on these rules. John's going to be out for two years. I keep hearing things speculative on how long he's going to be. It's real clear. It's going to be out for two years. That's the minimum if he tested, but he's out for two years. That's just what it is. Well, Anderson wasn't out for two years. What is that? Anderson beat the clock on the mandatory how long you're out. He came in just before that. Hector Lombard came in just before that. Those guys weren't subject to that. Anderson got ... They could have done whatever they want to him. The standard was nine to 12 months. He probably would have got nine, but he denied it to the end. They hate that. He shows up. All of a sudden, he doesn't speak English. They hate that. They were still pretty light on him though for three substances and a guy that still was resisting the test and coming in with a story and refusing to talk to him. 12 months, they were pretty reasonable by their standard. What do you think is a reasonable suspension? If a guy does get popped for estrogen blockers and he says, hey, I fucked up. I wanted an edge. I took it. What's a reasonable amount of suspension? My answer will be different because you said four estrogen blockers. Again, he's blocking something. He's not adding something. He's blocking something. Now, they come back in with their intellectual approach and go, well, you're only blocking it because you did something before. We didn't catch it before, so we're going to get you now. Not a terrible argument, but if you just look at what he did, I think there needs to be some conversation there. I was there in front of the commission one day. I got approved for a steroid, for testosterone. That same day, Nick Diaz took $100,000 fine and lost his license for a year for pot, of which he had a legal medication for, blah, blah, you know the story on that. You never know what's going to happen when you get in there. You never know what's going to happen. It's not a court. Remedie likes to say he's going to have his day in court. You don't have a day in court. Court implies a judge, which implies a disinterest to third party. You're going in front of the people who have accused you. If they clear you, they're now admitting they got it wrong to start with. That's literally never happened. They have never been wrong, where they go, hey, we had this wrong going about your day. It's never happened. Is Van der Lee the first guy to sue the athletic commission and win? I can't think of anyone else, but I'd have to look. Nick Diaz did the same thing. They finally said, okay, look, let's settle with you. What I think with Nick Diaz, they made a compromise. They abandoned him for five years for pot. The world went crazy. I gave out the fucking Nevada State Athletic Commission's phone number. I was like, call them up. Tell them it sucks. The whole world went crazy. The internet, they were making petitions. Everybody was emailing and writing people. People were justifiably outraged. That was a little bit different. They reduced his sentence. The Van der Lee thing was interesting because it seemed like a judge outside of the commission made the call. That is who did it. It was really weird because they came in with two things. First off, can you ban him for life? Second, did you have jurisdiction over him? Now if you read the statute, you don't have to be a lawyer. The statute is very small and it's extremely clear they did not have jurisdiction over him. At the same time, they can do anything they want, so they could ban him for life. You get in front of the judge, the judge ruled just the opposite. You can't ban him for life. That's too extreme, which is not true for the statute. They can do that. Historically, they have it, but they can't. They did not have the right to test him though because he was not licensed yet in Nevada. The statute clearly says to the licensee of which he was not. Kaiser, who was in at the time, said, listen, the fight's been announced in my state. He's in my state. That gives me the right. Well, the judge agreed with him. The judge got it just backwards. When the judge then did not rule on how long the suspension would be, he said, listen, he sent him back to Nevada. He still hasn't got that result. For every day that they kick the can down the road, they win. He's still suspended. He got his release from the UFC. He can go fight in any other state he wants right now. Well, he's preparing to fight Fadore, right? Isn't that a fight that they were trying to make for RYZEN? Not that I know of. I heard a rumor that he would get to that eventually, but Vandalay's got some kind of wrestling thing lined up for a tag team wrestling match is how he's going to ease his way back into the pool. Well, he just got hit by a car. He just got hit by a car. Yeah, I read that, but he's okay, fortunately. He was riding his bike. Yeah, well, I thought he had shoulder surgery. He could have, but I heard it hasn't delayed his competition. Okay. Yeah, well, I had heard that he was going to be fighting, see if you can find that. I heard that he was going to be fighting Fadore in Japan. And Fadore, man, seeing his fight with Maldonado, it was like, wow, how far the mighty have fallen. He just does not look the same at all. Fatigue's a son of a gun, too. Man, when you get tired, it doesn't matter how good you are. It doesn't matter what you did before. If you get tired, you got problems. Now, the good news for him is Maldonado got tired, too. Yeah, Momo Maldonado's never been a guy that's been the most conditioned guy in the world, but he is a guy with fantastic boxing, very good boxing, and he caught Fadore with a couple good shots and had him really badly hurt. A lot of people think that fight could have been stopped. I mean, under a bad judge, I don't think it should have been stopped, but under a bad referee it could have been. Sure. Or a referee that was a little too quick to pull the trigger. Or if it wasn't in Russia or if it wasn't ... Yeah, there was definitely some politics there. A little bad for Maldonado. Yeah. Maldonado thought he was going to get a fair shake. I'm looking at it going, we'll know, Maldonado. Make sure you get a good paycheck because you're not getting a fair shake in Russia. Then he even filed a complaint after the fact, a petition. I think he filed two. It's like, Maldonado just stopped. Maybe you don't know how this works over there, but it's over. Yeah, it's over. It's over. I mean, unless he flatlined him, he wasn't winning. Right. He would have had to have knocked him out. I'm sure whatever referee at the time would be very hesitant to stop that fight, even if Fadore getting his brains beaten out. Sure. If he thought he could make it to the bell. The real controversy was that first round that you're talking about where the ref could have stopped it probably should have ... It wasn't a 10-8 round. It's like, look, if that's not a 10-8 round, then what is? Right. What is? That fight should have been a draw. It was one round, but it was 10-8 to two rounds for Fadore. A lot of people argue rounds two and three, but they're wrong. Fadore won those rounds. Maybe they're a close ... But he won them. They should have been a draw. Yeah. Him not being in the UFC during his prime is one of the great tragedies of MMA. I really, really feel that. I would have loved to have seen the Fadore that fought Crocop fight in the UFC, and I think he would have been heavyweight champion. I really do. I think the only argument against him being the greatest of all time, in my opinion, is Cain Velasquez. I guess you could kind of make it for Verdoom, but I think Verdoom that got knocked out by Steepay was a healthy Verdoom. He just got emotional and crazy, and he charged after Steepay, and Steepay's that fucking good. Yeah, he is. He's really good. Steepay's a bad motherfucker. No doubt about it. He's a deserving world champion. But man, I would have loved to have seen Primetime Cain versus Primetime Fadore. Sure. I'd love to see it too. I maintain that Cain is the most intimidating figure in the heavyweight division, that even though he's jerking the curtain on Saturday night for the biggest card ever, he is the most intimidating guy. In the back, he's- What does that mean, jerking the curtain? Jerking the curtain is the guy that starts the show. You got to pull the curtain out of the way to start the show. Because he started it on Saturday night? Because he started it on Saturday night. The former heavyweight champion who's headlined cards and had bills with his name on the top of him, now all of a sudden he's jerking the curtain at the start of the show. But that's just because it's UFC 200. Well, that's what I'm saying. It was the biggest card there was. Yeah. What a performance he had though. Great performance. Travis Brown is nobody's fool. No. Travis Brown's ranked number four in the world, was ranked number three, and he should be. Travis caught him clean with a straight right hand in that first round. One of the few guys to beat Josh Barnett, and Travis is a good heavyweight. You need to be a basketball player. You talk about Steepay a minute ago, Steepay's a good athlete, and we don't have a ton of them. They're great athletes that are that size. They go into some other professions. You don't usually get them in this one. Steepay's a good looking heavyweight. He moves well. He works hard. He's got the wrestling background. Play baseball. He's just a good guy, man. Yeah, he really is. He's a good guy. What Kane brings to the table is some freak cardio and perfect technique. I mean, he's so unusual in his cardio. What about that wheel kick? Yeah, incredible. That was crazy. Through two of them. I was even trying that. Who's good at that? He comes up beside and goes, hey, Kane, we got to start working on wheel kicks. I don't know what it was. It was insane. But they were good. They were beautiful. There was nothing wrong with them. I mean, some guy, like when Wiedman threw that wheel kick against Rockhole, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck are you doing? Right. And then he gets taken down and beaten up. Why? Chris, why? And it wasn't a good wheel kick. It was a goofy wheel kick. Yeah, it just didn't look right. But when you saw Kane throw, you're like, oh, that's perfect. Yeah. But that's how he executes. Punches, kicks, takedowns, everything is perfect. There's no wind up. Kane has like extra horsepower behind it. Everything's precise. He's one of my favorite all time guys to watch because of that. Yeah, I agree with that. And then to your point on Verdun. So Verdun beats Fadore, who might be the greatest. So you say you don't know who the greatest ever was. Was it Fadore or was it Kane? And the truth is Verdun beat them both. But Verdun doesn't end up in the conversation. It's one of those weird things. He does. I think he does. But, you know, I mean, because you got to think that the prime Verdun who beat Fadore, the prime Verdun that beat Kane could probably have beaten those guys no matter what. It's very possible he could have beaten those guys no matter what. So I think he does go into the conversation. It's just the history that Kane had and the history that Fadore had. I mean, Kane's insane wars and the way he broke down Junior Josantos gets knocked out in the first fight. And then the next two fights just puts a fucking hellacious beating on him. I think, boy, it's, you know, MMA math sucks. Sure. You just it's real hard to say this guy beat that guy. So he's number one and that guy beat this guy. So. And when you talk about it, one of the elements that comes in isn't the guy's wins and losses in his skills. It's also an intimidation factor. What kind of intimidation do you have? Well, Verdun, you know, he makes the Joker face and he's always teasing around. So he gets overlooked. But I don't think that's fair. You know, the same thing's happened to Bisping. Weidman comes out. He says Bisping is the most undeserving person of all time to end up in a title spot. And I'm going, what? Time out. Chris is a stud. But Chris, time out. He's famous and world champion by beating Anderson Silva. Bisping just beat the same guy that you beat. Bisping just beat the same guy that put yourself over. Why does it not put Bisping over? Now he just beats Rockhold who beat you and Bisping still not over. Not only does it. It's kind of a weird thing. Not only does it put Bisping over, but Bisping beat Rockhold when Rockhold was fighting. He wasn't clowning around. When Chris beat Anderson, he beat him twice. He beat him once when Anderson dropped his hands and was being silly. And he got cracked. And everybody was like, I can't believe Anderson did that. It was a terrible way to lose. It wasn't just that they were in exchange and Chris landed a bomb of a left hook. No. It was Anderson was pretending to be hurt. And then he was faking, wobbling, and trying to duck out of the way of punches like he always does. And Chris cracked him. Then the second fight, he breaks his leg. I mean, he throws a kick, checks it, and breaks his leg. And then Chris beat the shit out of him in the first round and almost, you know, had him in bad trouble in that first round. Controlled him on the ground, beat him up. So they go into the second round. He breaks his leg in the second fight. So those are more freakish than what Bisping did. What Bisping did is just straight up, he fucking landed a beautiful left hook, hurt him, moved in for the kill, closed the show, legit champion, 100% no controversy. I fully agree with that. And I love this new smash up. You know, you heard it's going to be Dan Henderson. And that doesn't go in the rankings. I get all of that. But you know, I like the UFC when they make the matches that people want to see. And that's an interesting match. If you think Bisping is going to just go in and beat him or you look at Dan's record, you think that Bisping doesn't go to bed at night remembering what that was like, the teasing, the highlight reel, all the people, everybody telling him about, you know, making fun of him. Dan's logo is him flying through the air when he pounded Bisping after he was unconscious. Just to hit him one more time. Yeah. That's his logo. Yeah. I mean, it's his highlight reel knockout. He's been in his house for a month helping him train for Vtor. And when you turn Dan's TV off at night, the remote control says, lights out. And it's him hitting Bisping. That's what lights up. That's what lights up on his remote control. So I mean, if you think Dan doesn't have confidence going into the serious confidence, he knows he could beat him. He already did. And if you think Bisping is not going, man, I really don't want to be in there with that guy again. He's going to say, I want that one back. And I want he's going to say all those things and try to convince himself. But the bottom line is that's relevant. Dan Henderson will be the world champion. It's very possible. Very possible. He just knocked Hector Lombard dead. Hector's tougher than hell. Hector's never been given the credit that he deserves. A monster. Monster. Fights in two different ways. Yeah. Ridiculous power. And he had Dan hurt. And Dan had him hurt. Dan hurt him first. Hector came back, hurt Dan. Dan recovered and knocked him out with a crazy fucking elbow. And then another shot once it was basically out from that back elbow. But it shows that Dan can still shut the lights out on a guy in his prime who's a destroyer who's never been knocked out before in the Oscar. I fully agree. I fully agree. And Hector's one of those guys, regardless of what happens to him, and Hector stubbed his toe a few times, you want to see Hector fight. Hector's got the whole thing. He's going to do the promos before and he's going to mean it. He's going to hate that opponent. It's real. He's going to look like a million bucks and he's going to come out fighting. Whatever happens after that happens, but he's coming to fight. Well, he went out on a shield. When you look at this fight between Bisping and Henderson, that's the most exciting fight. I mean, that's why I like the fact that the UFC made it. That's the fight that I wanted to see. I put it on my Instagram. I'm like, come, yes, please. Please. Let's make it happen. Let's do it. Yeah, that's the fight. And if Dan goes out, Dan came to my, his fight was on a Saturday. He came to my show at the ice house in Pasadena on Wednesday. He said he had been drunk since Saturday. That sounds reasonable. He was so happy. He was so happy. And I'm like, well, what do you think? Is it possible? And he's like, we're trying. We're trying to make that happen. Like the Bisping fight. I'm like, that is the fight to make. And I go, would you retire if that would, if you went out with that fight? He goes, yeah, he goes, that's the only fight I want right now. He goes, I don't even really want to fight anybody else. I want to fight him. And then I think I'm done. Now what about when George St. Pierre was saying he would come back and he wanted Bisping. And if George comes to the table and says, I'll come back, but only if, well, then it's only if you're doing it, you're doing that. That's a big fight. If he comes back and fights Bisping. I don't know if it's a bigger fight than Henderson. I agree that it doesn't sell more, but I'm saying if that's what you got to do to get George back to the table, I think, I think you do it. If you're Dana, don't you do it. Okay. I don't think that's what you need to do. I think he's just saying that because it's an attractive option because, you know, Bisping has the title. It's an interesting fight. He wouldn't have to cut weight. I mean, literally he's walking around at 186. Right. Bisping is a much larger guy. So much larger. You think that Dana told George, no, no, I don't want to do that match. No, I just think they probably didn't really have it worked out. They were probably discussing it, trying to figure out what the details would be. But if you look at the most attractive fight to Bisping, I would think the Henderson fight would be because Dan doesn't have much time left. If he misses him this time around, he might not ever be able to fight him again. Bisping legitimately wants to get revenge and he's the world champion now. It's his call. So kudos to him for taking this fight for saying, you know what, man, this guy just blew. It's not like he called him out right after he just got knocked out in the first round by Vitor. No, he called him out after he just destroyed Hector Lombard. And like that was one of the greatest knockouts in the fucking history of the sport. I mean, when that happened, because when you consider all that was at stake, when you consider that Dan was 45 years old, that people thought he was in the twilight of his career, that he's stepping in there to fight Hector Lombard, was just a fucking monster in his prime. Like that was a great knockout, an all time great result. So kudos to Bisping. Kudos to Bisping for wanting that fight now. And the way Bisping needs to handle it, when you factor Jacques Aré in, who's going, hey, wait a minute, I had a beat in you. I got the skills to beat you on the number one contender. Here's how Bisping will handle it. No you're not. Wait your turn. That's how they'll handle it. The way to shut those guys down, Joe, is to go back to the truth. The truth is your friend. Listen, Jacques Aré, you're more dangerous. You're more likely to beat me, and I'm not looking to get beat. So I'm going to go deal with this guy. It shuts everything up. Bisping won't do it. Everybody likes to go, wait your turn, and this and that, and you're not as good as you think you are. Go fight Yoel Romero or whatever it is. Steer right into it. Yeah man, you're way more likely. Here's what I want to do. I want to fight the easiest guy in the biggest stadium for the largest paycheck, and that's what I'm in a politic to do. So you do your thing, and I'm going to do mine. Well the Jacques Aré is not very good for Jacques because he lost the fight with Yoel Romero. Some reason had your erroneous... But Yoel popped. Yeah. I had an erroneous memory of Jacques Aré winning the decision. I don't know why. Maybe it's because of him testing positive, but it was a very close fight too. I remember not knowing after it was over. I remember Yoel blasted him and had him really badly hurt, but I felt like Jacques Aré came back a bit, and it was a very close fight towards the end. It was very tight. I agree with the decision. But Yoel popped. But I concede it was tight. Jacques Aré, he's fantastic. Yeah, he's fantastic. So is Yoel. They're both fantastic. Yeah, they really are. Yeah. When he lost that fight though, it's real hard to lose a fight, even if it got a pop for a tainted supplement. I mean, they've only given him a six month suspension. It's real hard to make an argument that you deserve the next shot at the title. I think that actually solidifies Dan's position. Sure. I agree with you. Can I switch gears? Yeah. I got to ask you about something. Fuck yeah. Ask me about anything. Joey Diaz. Tell me everything. How did you meet Joey Diaz? Because then I want you to ask me this. I want you to ask me what my experience with Joey... But how did you meet him? How did he come into the fold? I met Joey Diaz in the late 90s at the Comedy Store. I think I met him in like 96 or 97, something like that. Right when Joey moved to LA. We just started hanging around the Comedy Store. We became friends. And then I started taking him on the road with me, like the late 90s. We've been best friends forever. So I know of Joey. I don't know Joey. I've never met him. You've never met Joey? Never. I call him up right now. I know him a whole bit. I know him from the view. You need to meet him. And I see your podcast and all that. But he's in the circles. He does some jiu-jitsu. He's funnier than him. And he's a gangster. So I like him. But I don't know anything about him. So he comes on my podcast. Now he has a podcast. So of course my opening line to him is, hey, how'd you get into a pocket? Here's your plug for your podcast and we're going to go on and talk about my agenda. So I say, Joe, I say to him, Joey, how'd you get into podcasting? His response, you know, Chael Sunnen, he wouldn't call me Chael. You know what, Chael Sunnen? He still calls me Joe Rogan. I mugged a hooker down in New Jersey and set her wig on fire. Okay, we got to, there's two moving parts here. First off, that is, I don't know how that answers my question of how, but now I need to know the story here. So he ties it all together with, he went on something, something he got an appearance. He told the story of mugging a hooker in New Jersey and setting her wig on fire. And all of a sudden he blew up overnight. He goes, yeah, I realize people like those stories. I never knew that I had stories from the part of the country I'm in and the neighborhood I grew up in. I thought everybody had these stories. He's like, Chael Sunnen, I thought I'd tell you I mug a hooker and light a wig on fire. You go, yeah, well, I mug 10 hookers and let 10 wigs on fire. He's like, I didn't know I had stories. And then it just goes from there and he starts telling me about, so he ends up doing two years or 18 months. I said, well, what kind of jam did you get in there? And he said, well, I was actually, I was doing the cops job for him. You know, the cops don't want drugs on the streets. I went and took two kilos off the streets for him. This is how he presents it to me. He goes, yeah, you know, the two kilos wasn't as big of a deal. Oh, he said, oh, so I robbed two kilos. He goes, and you know what else, Chael Sunnen? I just happened to have a machine gun. And I go, well, I can see where that happened. Because, yeah, sometimes you're just back into a machine gun. I had a machine gun with me. And he goes, but it's funny. I wasn't in trouble for the gun. I really wasn't in that much trouble for the drugs. What they were upset about was the kidnapping. I'm going, OK, what happened? This is my intro to the guy. I'm like, what in the hell is this story? You probably know the story. But I didn't. So he tells me the whole story. And he says, yeah, but you know, kidnapping is kind of a weird charge. Because when you and Vandalay got in that scuffle on the ultimate fire, if I come and grab you and I take you into the next room just to cool you down, taking you into a room against your, that's kidnapping. So I think like they got him on a technicality jam, like what they're doing with Frank Meir, some of these guys we're talking about. And I said, OK, is that what happened? And he goes, no, I duct taped the guy. He was in my trunk. And I held him in the house for a week before I let him go. Well, then why did you tell me? Why did you bring up the initial example of taking me next door and cooling me down? What'd that have to do? I still don't know. Because he's crazy. It's funnier than hell. And so I was trying to talk like some, see, I try to do more of a Joe Rogan experience. You're my idol. I try to do my show the way you do yours. But I'm not there yet. It takes a while to build that audience. So I got to stick on MMA and pro wrestling. I got to really stay. But I don't want that. I want to just talk. Well, you could just talk. You definitely could just talk. Well, as I bring these guys in, I'm trying to do a little more of that. I go to TMZ. I see the local stuff. I try to ask them pop culture questions. So I dip my toe in politics with Joey. Obama had just made this new rule of going to any bathroom you want. So I asked Joey about that. And he goes, chill, son. And I've been taking a dump in the woman's bathroom since I'm five years old. And believe me, I have dealt with the consequences. But he wasn't kidding. Joe, that's what's so funny, man. It's a shoot. He's being real. And he tells me. It's a shoot. He is pro wrestling. Yeah. He goes, well, my mom used to own a restaurant. So I kind of had to clean the bag. Then I'd sit down. And the women's. He goes, you know what happens if you drop your Coke on a men's bathroom floor? No, I don't know. I don't do Coke. What? I tested positive for everything in the world. But Coke wasn't one of them. And he says, you leave it there. You know what happens if I drop my Coke on a women's bathroom floor? You get down and lick it up. That's what he says. But he's trying to say the women's room is cleaner. He's been using them since he's five years old. And he said, and I have dealt with the consequences, which I knew. I want the answer to what those were. It's just it's like there's too many other things to talk to this guy. But I got to get back to the hooker with the wig that he mugged. I've known Joey for 20 years. And he's never stopped running out of stories. And they're all real. His life is so fucking crazy that people go, that guy just comes on your show and makes stuff up. That's what people used to say when I used to have them on. He used to say, like, when we first started doing the podcast, he was like, I'm tired of that. Joey Diaz guy. He's lying. He's just making things up. Haters would say that. But then people would come on his show and substantiate. He would call people up in New Jersey that he grew up with. They would tell him. He would go, tell him that fucking story about the time we lit the hookers work on fire. And then they would tell the same story. Like, he's lived a movie. Not a movie, like an epic adventure series of novels. Like, his life is insane. Well, to qualify. So he tells this story about robbing this guy with a machine gun that he just happened to have, taking the two kilos off the street, doing the cop's job for him, but then having the guy in his trunk duct tape before he moved him to the house before he let him go. He had that guy on his podcast. Yes. He found him on social media, tried to friend him or like him or whatever you call it on Facebook. I'm a Twitter guy, but this was Facebook. Guy ignored him for about two years and finally responded. Now, Joey's had him on his pockets. He says we catch up about once a month. And he goes, yeah, that guy was good people. He never turned me in. He said it was my partner in the whole thing. The partner tried to double cross me. We stole the coke. Then he was going to steal it from me. But I knew what time it was. Now, that's an expression I'd never heard before, but I planned to take with me through my next years in life. Whenever you, I knew what time it was. I just thought that was a great line. The whole thing was great. I asked him about the gorilla. The gorilla had just got shot where they killed him at the zoo. And he says, you know what, Chael Sunner? They don't give us the good gorillas. I'm down at the zoo last week. The gorillas, they got their hair messed up. They don't eat bananas. They want chicken cutlets. Shoot the effing gorilla. And it's like, you had no idea I was going to ask you that. That was so spontaneously funny. That news had just broken. Right then, I was like, this is the guy. This is a funny guy. No, he's unbelievable. He's the funniest person I've ever met in my life. He's the funniest comedian I've ever seen in my life. Well, I've never seen him live. You've got to see him live. How long are you in town for? I'm here till tomorrow. I'm going to do Fighter and the Kid. I got to see, speaking of con, I got to see Adam Hunter last night live. And he lit it up. Adam Hunter. Adam's very funny. He was very funny. He's very good. He worked the whole crowd in. He made it a thing, and he sold the venue out as this real intimate atmosphere at Stratosphere. I would guess 100 seats. Very small, but it was packed. That's perfect. Went right around the room. I mean, he rose, and there's nothing off limits. Women's jokes, gay jokes, race jokes, everything. And it was awesome. And possibly as funny as, like, he was going around to couples, hey, how'd you guys meet? Hey, how'd you guys meet? Where'd you guys meet? You meet the UFC? You guys fight fans? He's doing the whole thing? There's a nerdy couple. He goes, where'd you guys meet? Lenscrafters? It's a sis- right? See, its brilliance is in its simplicity. You could use that line in school and not even get a detention. I mean, that's a powerful and funny line, and the teacher can't even send you to the office for it. It's not mean. Right. It's not mean. It's just funny. No, he's a funny dude. I got in trouble for quoting one of his jokes during a Fox broadcast. Like a Fox Sports one? Who was the fighter that he was telling the joke about? He said he comes from behind more than Lance Bass. Yes. Who was it, though? I can't remember. But that was a funny line. Yes, and then you used to like a pay-per-view, though, or something. No, no, no. I think it was on FS1. That was part of the problem. OK. It works. Martin Cameron? Yeah, it was Martin Cameron. And I just wanted to credit him because it made me laugh so hard. That's so funny. As my friend Adam Hunter. So I kind of got away with it because it wasn't my joke. Yeah. Because if I had said it, I don't know. Well, here, if we're playing that game, I can't tell one. But if I quote him, maybe I can. He sends me a text after the Orlando shooting. The very next day, he says, hey, man, let me know you're OK. I heard there was a shooting at a gay club. I just want to check on you. It's like, now, you've got to do that in private. You're competing. Now, comedians can do anything they want. Yeah, just loopholes. It was hilarious. I'm just reading it going, that's funny. I wonder how many other people you said that to. But I'm the right mark for that because that's funny. That's funny. It is funny. Well, that's a weird position. And I believe in the rule, Joe. If it's funny, then you can do it. Yes. Yeah. Well, it's a most funny subjective, right? Like, what's funny to you? Other people might get offended. And that's one of the things that people who love to be recreationally outraged, that's what they do. They'll find a joke. And they'll say, that's not funny to me. It's horribly offensive. And it's degrading. And blah, blah, blah. And they'll come up with a bunch of reasons why it shouldn't be funny. But if there's someone out there that's howling at the same time you're protesting, the other person's howling, laughing. Well, then it did its job. Yeah. It's tricky for me. You sent out a great tweet. It might have been as recently as yesterday. But it was a two part. The first part said, this country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem. And this country has a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem. As a security problem. And it went crazy. Twitter lit it up. And when I'm reading that, I'm going, OK, Joe's dipping in something here. Joe doesn't usually dip in. But he's right. There is no way to say that that statement's not right. And it wasn't meant to be funny. That was a very true, and I thought a powerful statement by you. Thank you. It's actually a couple of years old. It's just going around a lot. People are retweeting it a lot. OK, it came back. But there's no way you can't call what happened in Orlando a mental health problem. There's plenty of guns. There are more guns than there are human beings in this country. And if there was a gun problem the way a lot of people like to pretend there's a gun problem, or the way they like to, I shouldn't say pretend, because obviously there's an issue, the way they like to categorize it, there would be people shooting people en masse all day long every day. It would be impossible to go out of the house without looking for gunfire. That's not the case. When you think about how many people there are and how many guns there are, and how statistically rare it is that these things happen, and then you factor in how many of these people are on antidepressants, how many of these people are being weaned off of antidepressants, those numbers are terrifying. Because when you look at the correlation, and correlation does not equal causation. There's a weird argument. But it's an undeniable factor that has to be at least debated and discussed. There are so many fucking people in this country on disassociating meds, on things that allow you to get away with, you can justify and do and act in horrific ways, and not exactly know what the fuck you're doing. That is one of the problems that's associated with certain antidepressants. And to not connect those two is crazy. And to not, and even if they're not medicated, forget about the medication, because the medication is one issue. The type of person that can go into a fucking school and shoot a bunch of kids, if you don't think that's a mental illness issue, oh, it's only a gun issue. That's fucking crazy. It's not a gun issue. That's like calling 9-11 a plane issue. It's not. It's not a gun issue. The gun factor is real. There is a problem if psycho people and people with criminal records or people that are mentally disturbed can buy guns. Yes, that's a problem. You know what else is a problem? The fact that I can get a fucking, I can get a gun and I don't even know how to use it. That's a problem. You have to have a license to drive a car. You have someone else to sit with you. You have to take these turns. You have to turn right here. You have to fully stop at the stop sign. You have to do all these things, and if you don't do it, you don't get your driver's license. All you have to do is not be a criminal and you get a gun. That is fucking crazy. And at any age, too, and that's relevant. My nephew's eight years old. Last Christmas, he got a gun. And we live in the country. That's normal. Kids have guns by the time they're eight years old. At three, four years old, they're starting with BB guns. They advance to appellate. You get a shotgun. Some parts of the world go, man, that's insane. You gave a kid a gun. Well, we live out in the country. Yes, the kid has the gun. The other side of it, though, there is no crimes where I come from done with a gun. Whether a guy's doing a simple robbery, and I don't mean to dismiss that, but in the eyes of murder, it is. Never. And one of the reasons that we maintain is when you have guns and you grow up with guns, you learn the dangers of guns. You never play with those things. You never point those things at anybody. When you're out shooting watermelons and pop cans or whatever it may be, you learn real fast, this is why I don't pull a gun. This is why I don't do these things. We don't know anything about the things like the cities in New York and all these people that are trying to take the guns away. We don't know anything about that out in the country. Never. We don't have any gun problems, and everybody's got them. Well, don't you also think that living in a place like the country where everybody does have guns, that is a very different environment than living in a city. If everybody had guns in the city, you have so much more tension going on. It's so much different. The environment's different. I don't necessarily think it would be great if New York City had as many guns per capita as Oregon. Sure. Sure. Your original point on this is the only thing that stops you from getting a gun is having a felony. It's like, well, that makes sense and nobody's been speeding it, but there's got to be a few more things to your point. We need to find out if you're a Medicaid. A simple drug test. This is pretty quick. The NRA is real big that a guy gets a gun today because he might need to think, well, no, the guy's got to plan ahead. It's just like a driver's license. Maybe the 16-year-old has a date on Saturday, but if he doesn't have the license, then he's just going to have to postpone the date because there needs to be more things than just simply going, let me run your fingerprints and if something comes back. To your point, are you on drugs or you're on medication? How about a train of thought? I've never heard anybody make that argument before, but I love that analogy. You have to get a license for a car. It's a pretty simple process, but you have to do it. Well, you should have to do that with a gun too because people need to know why you don't use guns. Yeah, 100%. I mean, you have to get a hunter safety certificate if you want to hunt and if you want to use the gun. It's very detailed. In most states, you have to have one, in many states at least. Actually, I don't even think that you have to have it in California, which is weird because California is one of the most restrictive states when it comes to firearms, but you have to go through this long, difficult course and you have to pass tests. You have to actually know what the fuck you're doing. If you don't, you don't get your hunter safety certificate and then you can't hunt. You can't get a license, right? Yeah, you can't get a license. I think that what the NRA does is they take a hard stance on the side of promoting guns and they don't move. Not only do they not budge, they almost are unreasonable in their position, but I feel like that is because the left is so unreasonable. When anything goes on, they immediately want to ban guns and take guns away. It's not feasible. At this stage, people are like, whoa, look what they did in Australia. Australia is 20 million people. It's the size of the continental United States. To equate Australia with the United States is insane. There's just way too many people here. It's a completely different ... And by the way, they didn't ban guns in Australia. People hunt with guns. You can get guns. You can register guns. You get them. You belong part of hunting clubs like they do in Europe. You keep them stored in lockers. It's not a full-on ban on firearms. It's just much more restrictive. The NRA is trying to stop restrictions. The reason why they're trying to stop restrictions is because when anything goes on television, it's very disingenuous for someone to go on television after some sort of a massacre and not bring up all the factors, not bring up psych meds, not bring up mental health, not talk about the correlation between raising kids in abusive households and having children grow up with these horrible lives and then they go on and become fucking psychopaths. There's a correlation there. It's not simply whether or not the kid had the tool to do the job. It's like, why the fuck did they want to do that in the first place? And then you find out so many of these cases like this guy in Orlando, the FBI had him on a watch list just a couple of years ago. Twice! Yeah, I mean, come on, man. That fucking kid in Colorado that killed everybody at the movie theater, they knew that guy was out of his fucking mind. He had talked about killing a bunch of people and there's a lot of those cases where they get ignored. And that's a giant issue. And I don't know how to solve that issue because what do you do when someone comes along and says, hey, I'm thinking about going into a movie theater and killing a bunch of people. I'm just kidding. What do you do? I'm going to go buy your first statement and lock you up forever? I don't know. I don't know what to do there. And I think there's a gigantic argument when it comes to gun violence in this country, but there's a gigantic argument when it comes to mental illness and we're pushing that one aside. Yeah. And I think they just do it at the wrong time. They get emotions involved. They made a statement back when he was president, never let a good crisis go to waste. So it is believed by politicians when you have a crisis, that's when you go on the attack, but that's when emotions are the highest. I disagree with this statement. It's a good time to get your agenda out there, but you're just pissing people off and you're entrenching them in their own views. A great time to bring up the gun argument. I'm pro-gun, but I do understand. Look, there's some room to give here. I love what you said about a license. You relate that to driving a car. It makes perfect sense. Bring it when emotions are a little bit less. Come forward and go, hey, listen. Let's make sure we do this. If you're worried about your safety, kind of get a little bit proactive here. Start the process so you can have a gun if that's what you want to do. But I think that they're wrong following Jeff K's model that he said in 1964. I think here in 2016, let emotions die down a little bit. People not be pissed on one side or the other, worried about protecting themselves and their family or worried that something's going to happen to themselves and their family. You get good people with really different views here. I think that they're misplacing JFK's philosophy. In my opinion, in 2016, let things die down a little bit and then bring it up. Yeah, and there's also this weird adherence, concrete adherence to the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment. I think that people should ... Look, I don't think if there's only three of us in this world, you, me, and Jamie, we're the only ones ... If Jamie came along and said, nobody could have guns, I think we would get together and go, fuck that guy. Who's this guy to tell us what we can and can't do? That same thought process could be applied to 300 million people. I don't agree that a grown human being should be able to tell another grown human being what they can and can't do. If you say, hey, Joe, I'm thinking about starting a nuclear power plant in your backyard, and I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, but if I don't, we're going to have to move to the middle of the ocean. Well, then we got a problem. You could apply that logic to guns. You should say, well, if you're a fucking gun nut and you like to shoot guns off in your backyard and you might ricochet one and fucking shoot my dog or something, then it becomes a safety issue and a health issue. It's hard to justify using the words of people that lived in the fucking 1700s when it comes to today with the kind of guns that we have, with the kind of society that we have, with the kind of just our ... Across the board, our legal system, our system of government, the representative government, all that stuff is fucking bananas in the world of 2016. Representative government has no place in a world where everyone has social media, where everyone can be represented instantaneously. You don't have to get on a fucking horse and take a parchment across the country to hand it to some dude in a powdered wig. That's old, that we don't need that anymore. So when you start talking about things that are in the Bill of Rights and things that are in the Constitution, gee, you think it's time to update that fucking ancient piece of shit? Thank you. I mean, it was great. They had amazing insight. They were brilliant people. We owe them everything. This experiment of self-government that the United States of America was founded on is a fantastic invention, and it's one of the reasons why so much art and creativity and innovation and freedom come from this part of the world. But to rely on the exact words written with a fucking feather, back when people were taking wooden boats across the ocean hoping they wouldn't get eaten by Indians when they landed here. I mean, Native Americans, sorry. I just think it's ridiculous. Is Indian bad? You're not supposed to say Indian bad? You're not supposed to say Indian bad. Really? No. It's right up there with retard and ... Can you say homo? I think you still say homo. Homo sapien. I did not know that. I did not know that. I know politicians try to be correct all the time and say African American, but that term is wrong. It's black. Yes. Not all blacks are African. Yeah, there's a lot of people from Haiti. To your point though, yeah, people have this absolute fetish for the Constitution no matter how many times we've amended it over the years. It extends to the Bill of Rights too. They need to take ... You bring up a feather, and that's accurate. They sign it with a feather, but they were also married to their cousin and they bathed once a week. And they had slaves. There you go. It's like, hey guys, things change. These guys did their level best at that time, but they couldn't see the world in perpetuity. The other side of it is, no matter how many times we've amended the Constitution, you guys still have a fetish that this was like the gospel. This wasn't touched by the hand of God. This was written by knuckleheads with eighth grade educations. Yeah, and the thing about the Bill of Rights, the reason why they cling to that Second Amendment is because it does state that you have the right to bear arms. So they got it. It's written down. It's ours. Sure. We got it. And people also love the basis behind it. It wasn't about hunter and gatherer, like some people say. It was about, look, if our government has guns, then we have guns so that we can always overtake our government should we need to. Now, in the world of tanks and aircraft and everything, of course that doesn't hold, but that's the part that people like. They don't want to give their government the power that the people don't have. That is a wonderful philosophy, but it's kind of outgrown itself. It has outgrown itself in the United States of America in 2016, but if the shit hits the fan and it absolutely could. We are one natural disaster away from chaos at all times, and that is something that has happened all throughout human history. There have been gigantic asteroid impacts. There have been super volcanoes. There have been tidal waves. There's been a lot of shit that happens, then all of a sudden chaos. We saw what happened with Katrina. Katrina hit, and there was looting and rioting and chaos, and people have the right to defend themselves and protect themselves in that kind of situation when people go crazy. Then you factor in the possibility of government going crazy. That is just as much of a possibility. It's happened all throughout history. It's happening in Russia right now. Russia is being run by fucking gangsters and not the jail sun in Kyom. Right. A different kind of gangster. Putin is a murderer. He's a tyrant, for sure. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I'm not- And he's an effective leader. Yeah. Yeah. For all the wrong reasons, but yeah, he is effective. Yeah. I think there is an argument that when people have ultimate power, they also have massive potential for corruption. We see that today with the Clinton campaign, this nonsense with the fucking emails and the classified data that she had inadvertently or purposely sent through email, and then the difference between her take on it and what the FBI's take on it was, like there's clearly lying going on. There's clearly corruption going on. There's clearly people protecting her. That kind of corruption where it wouldn't apply to you and it wouldn't apply to me, we would go to jail. Sure. If we sent those same emails, if we were involved in the transfer of top secret information through erroneous fucking pathways, or however the fuck she did it, and I don't exactly know the specifics, but if we did any of those things, we would most likely be convicted and we would most likely at least get fined a massive amount of money, but more likely go to jail. Sure. Martha Stewart went to jail just for lying to the FBI. Now Hillary's in that same jam, the FBI's saying they didn't look into it. That whole thing is very phageasy. That whole thing is very corrupt, and I think that Comey at the FBI is a reasonable guy or however I tend to believe him, but this was never a fair shake. Obama stays out of the whole thing, then he finally comes in, Loretta Lynch finally comes in and says, well, we're going to honor whatever the FBI says, and then four days later the FBI drops the news. It's like, guys, this has been going on for a year. I'll tell you something else, you know who looks weak in the whole thing? It's the FBI. These guys are supposed to be great. We put 40 people on the Hillary Clinton case. To put that in perspective for the listeners, four people were assigned to Al Capone, 10 times the amount, and it took them one year of having the evidence to make a ruling. I mean, come on, that's weak. The same thing's going on with ISIS. We're supposed to have this great military, and no offense to the people that serve, but offense to the people that are handcuffing our military. ISIS, when I first heard about them for the very first time, was 200 members strong. Now they are 4,000 strong, and we still can't stop these guys, and we're supposed to be the best. Look, of course we could. We just don't, but it makes us look weak. That would not happen in Russia. Nobody attacks the Russians. If you attack Putin, you will be fighting Putin right now. No permission, no Congress, no BS. You want to go, you're going to go with Russia, and that's why nobody does. I think you're right. I think you're definitely right. When there's direct evidence of Clinton's statements versus the FBI's statements, Clinton saying, I only used one device, FBI saying, she used multiple devices, Clinton saying that no classified or top secret documents were shared or leaked. The FBI saying, hundreds. Hundreds. Hundreds. And deleted. Yeah, it's all fucked. It's all fucked, but that's corruption. That stinks. This is not the kind of corruption that we need to be absolutely terrified of. They're going to come and steal our children, and take all our money away, and fucking shoot anybody who talks back. That's not that level of corruption, but it's a slippery slope with any corruption. If the laws don't apply to you, because your name is Hillary Clinton, but the law applies to Chelsunden or Joe Rogan, that's nonsense. That's not the world that we want. It's a real problem when someone is outside of the law, or the law respects them in a different way than it respects you. That's not good, and that's why the Second Amendment exists. The Second Amendment exists to stop fuckery, because people are crazy. And when people say, whoa, it's about muskets, and it's not. It's not. Right. Whoa, it's for militia. It's only the guns are for ... No. No, no. It's to prevent this kind of shit from getting completely out of hand. Prevent the government from taking over, and allow people to form a resistance. Sure. To be armed. Yeah. And so many people think that Trump's crazy, and he's going to lead us into war. It's like, guys, sometime, read the art of war. Just read the art of war, because the best general never fires a shot, ever. Putin hasn't had to whip a lot of ass. Now, Putin will kill you if he needs to, but he hasn't had ... He took over a part of the Ukraine, didn't kill a person. He rolled in, he said he wanted it, and now he has a part of the Ukraine. That's leadership. He aligned, but it's ... I'm not saying this is good, but that's what a leader does. A leader makes this ... He goes in and takes over, and he didn't have to kill anybody. The best general never fires a shot. Donald Trump isn't planning to go and whip people. He's planning to make people think he will whip them, which is why he's not going to get us into wars, and a lot of people don't see that. And Trump can't come out and reveal this big curtain, or people go, oh, well, the whole thing's a joke. He can't do that. He can't stand this ground, take people saying he's crazy, hope that enough people get it to vote him into office. But that's all he's doing. He's going around saying, it's our way or the highway. We're the economic power, we're the military power. We do things right, and you're going to do it our way, and we're not going to do a lot of compromising. When you align like that, you look at North Korea, all the craziest they do there. They scare everybody for years. We pay them a bunch of money. Bill Clinton paid them $8 billion. George Bush paid them $6.5 billion. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican. You're paying these knuckleheads for making ... They've never fired a shot. They just understand the art of war. Talk tough. Whoever talks tough is the toughest. On the playground, everybody listening to this had a tough guy in school. Hey, who's the toughest guy in school? Everybody listening to this right now can go, oh, I'll tell you, that guy. They all know. I'd ask them a follow-up question. If you ever see him getting a fight, and all of them are going, no, no, who'd fight him? He was the toughest guy in school. Whoever talks the toughest is the toughest, and those rules don't change from the playground to the octagon to the White House. They don't change. The best general never fires a shot. When I was in high school, the toughest kid beat the fuck out of everybody. His name was Frank Peace. He was fucking huge. He was most likely on steroids. He was a gigantic fuck. He was so terrifying. My sister dated him for a while. No. Yeah, yeah. Imagine having your sister date the toughest guy in the school. Oh, he was a gorilla. He used to be able to ... Remember those universal machines? Remember they had the stack? Yeah. What was the stack? Like 250 or something like that? He could bench the whole stack several times, and everybody was like, whoa, he does the stack. He had giant stretch marks all over his tits, and he was like 17 with these things. Most likely on steroids. Pretty sure. Well, I ran into him many, many years later. He's a great guy, by the way. He was quite a bit smaller. When I ran into him many years later, like, oh, where's the ... Something for the kids is going on there. Where's the rescue? But that was back when people really didn't even understand steroids. There wasn't a lot of people on him back in these days. Sure. My point being, toughest kid in my school beat the fuck out of everybody. He whipped some ass. He went to a college party and beat the fuck out of a bunch of guys. That'll do it. Yeah. That'll carry your reputation. That'll carry over. He was a brick shit house that kid. But yeah, but I understand what you're saying. Sure. This Donald Trump thing, which is interesting to me, is that what he's done is he's gotten the media to work for him, because he found a weakness in what they do. What they like to do is they like to talk shit. What the media likes to do is they like to find something that they feel like is going to be embarrassing or something that they can focus on and really drone on and on about it. But with him, he owns it. It's similar to what you were talking about with promoting yourself and promoting yourself as a fighter. He's promoting himself in a lot of the ways, the same way kind of that you would do. What he's doing is he's not apologizing. He's saying provocative things. Because of that, he gets way more air time than anybody else by far. He's not even close. All the other guys in the Republican candidates, they were all playing second fiddle. They were all trying to catch up. They were even trying to do his thing. Marco Rubio is making fun of his hands. What does he do? He turns into a big dick joke. He's like, I'm fine in that department. Don't worry. I'm fine in that department. Everybody's like, he's owning it. He's talking about his dick. This is amazing. It got him even more fans. I think people are tired of what the game is right now. What the game is right now is a guy gets on a podium. He says a bunch of things that you know and I know will fucking never happen. Obama, everybody was hoping change, hoping change. He's going to close Guantanamo Bay. He's going to get us out of Iraq. He's going to get us out of Afghanistan. We're still in Iraq. We're still in Afghanistan. Guantanamo Bay is still here. No hope, no change. Drones are everywhere. We're going to let whistle blowers off the hook. Cracks down on whistle blowers more than anybody. More military than George W. Bush. More attacks on free press than any Republican president. But because he does it under the guise of being on the left, people don't look at the cold hard reality of his actions. So it's a bullshit fucking scam. So this guy comes along and he plays it like a pro wrestler. He plays it like a reality TV star. He plays it like a guy who is savvy about the media. He's been working the media his whole career and it's working. Yeah. I love it. And to your point, he is running his presidential campaign the way Vince McMahon would promote a WrestleMania. And he's getting attention. He's evoking an emotion. Front row Brian actually told me who's watching right now. He keeps texting me. So quick shout out to him. I'm stealing his line, but he's right about that. He's evoking an emotion. He's getting people involved. He understands that ratings are what get you on TV. He understands he can save money for that. He's also refused to take donations. He doesn't want to be bought. He wants everybody to understand that he's going to go in free and clear and owe nobody anything. But wait a minute. He just requested a bunch of donations. He took it back. But Joe, he was very candid about it. He said, I have been funding this myself. And he said, and frankly, I haven't gotten a very good return. I'm funding this myself so everybody knows I'm not bought and sold, that I haven't made deals that I'm going to go in there and actually represent the people. I'm going to take a pay cut. I'm going to go do a job I don't want to do because it's a job I think I need to do. That message didn't get out. And he said, look, I'm losing in the polls to somebody who is bought and paid for because she's got more money than me. You people don't seem to understand this message of me going in there, not owning anybody anything. I haven't got an investment on my return and I'm thinking about taking it back and opening up the donation. But he was very honest about it. He was very candid. I thought he had like an emergency drive. He did. And he pulled it back? No, no, no, no. I'm saying this. He did have the emergency drive. He had the emergency drive. But that was interesting too. He had $1 million in two days. And by the way, if you guys give me 10, I'll throw another 10 in on myself. So he ended up matching. He put $20 million. Then he did it again. It was such a success. He did it again. Well, it's a weird situation for the Democrats because if Hillary did get indicted and if Hillary did wind up getting convicted or they punished her in any way, it's over. That's how it's over. Right? So who else is there? Bernie Sanders? They don't want that. Nobody wants that. They're just crazy old socialists. A lot of people think she's picking up Elizabeth Warren as a reminder. Now, I don't think so. I think she's cognizant enough to know that America does not want to look sexist, but it in fact is. That America is going to have a hard time putting a female as the commander in chief of the military who doesn't come out and endorse anybody. But if you talk to them privately, they do not want to be led by a woman. That's a reality. I think she's smart enough to know they damn sure don't want to be led by two. But of course, would never say that publicly. We don't want to look sexist as a country, even though we are. If Hillary wants to put the nail in the coffin of this campaign, she puts Bill as her VP. She does not have an ego that would allow her to do such. I think she might make the air of putting Elizabeth Warren in. Man, that would be a weird thing because Elizabeth Warren pretended that she was Native American. Yeah. She lied, straight up lied. That's racist. There's no way around that. It's cultural appropriation. That's a big thing today. There's no way around that one. She sure did. And then what? She commented on her eyes. Well, my eyes look this way. Yeah, it got bad. It got bad. And Trump, instead of saying it the way you used to, well, you know, you lied about me. He calls her Pocahontas. Yeah, Pocahontas. Everybody says that's right. He says it more. Well, he calls Bernie Sanders crazy Bernie. He calls Hillary, lion Hillary. Crooked. Yeah, Crooked Hillary. That's smart. I mean, look what he does by labeling them in that way. Little Marco. Yeah. Lion Ted. That's great. He give them all. He gave them all a gimmick. Well, he juked the system. The system was based on deception in the first place and they had this whole standard operation, the way they would run things. They would all do it the exact same way. And he came in and exposed all the flaws in the game. Yeah. And he's not done. And he's not backing off. Everybody keeps waiting for him to back off. He's not even started because it's not the real presidential candidate. I mean, it's not the real campaign yet. The real campaign begins once it is absolutely Hillary and absolutely him and it gets boiled down. Like right now we're in July. When it gets to be August and then September, that's when shit's going to really start flying. And it's going to be interesting to see what he uses to try to attack her and what she uses to try to attack him and how they're both going to get damaged in the process. And our system is going to be damaged in the process. And that's something that I think everybody is kind of cognizant of. When you destroy someone who is on their way to become the commander in chief, you kind of weaken the whole nation because that person becomes the... Like look, if Hillary won, say if the elections were tomorrow and the FBI thing happened today and then she wins tomorrow and everybody's going to be like, we know she did something that we would have been punished for. This is, it weakens the position and it weakens it in the eyes of the world too, I'm sure. It does. When we talk about VP picks, I'm not sure that they've got it right. The media thinks they've got it narrowed down to four guys and they added one more for Trump on Trump's side. Christie and Gingrich and Pence, they've got five... I don't think they're right. I think that he will go outside the box. He's not going to put a woman in there just to put a vagina on the ticket and think he's going to do well like McCain did with Palin. I think he's going to bring in somebody that's either got Admiral or Colonel or General next to their name. I think that it is very important for him to look powerful and be powerful. I think he wants a military guy and I think that's who he admires. I don't think he admires politicians. I think he admires soldiers. That would be interesting if he did that and that would be a huge step up if he did do that in terms of how public responded to him. Because if he's the big showman but he's got some very serious guy with some real world experience as his second guy, that would be really interesting. To me, it's just disturbing that we're down to a reality TV star and an old lady trying to get back at her husband for a blow job he got in the 90s. The whole thing is just disturbing. Bill Clinton treated the White House like it was a frat and I will forever appreciate that. I just will. I just will. He was a mess. He was all these different things. He was unapologetic. He was the master liar. Remember the divisible and the denominator and he was going in all these circles and before you're done you're just flat out confused. That Oxford degree really sent me in circles. I guess we give this guy a pass. He's an odd dude, man. He's a very odd dude. He's still swinging. He's still swinging out there for his wife. That's another one though, Joe. If you don't mind me interrupting. If he would have just told the truth back then, just used the truth on his side, it would have all been done. If he would have just said, man, I'll sleep with anything in the world except her. If he would have just done that, it'd be all over. Instead, he started getting crazy. If he would have hit him with that line. It's the same thing with Trump right now. If he would have just said, look, I think that America should have a long leash but attack to that leash is a big old bomb and this is how we're going to do it and we'll delight the thing if we have to. It's hard to deal with. It's really hard to deal with. I got all of this, this philosophy from you giving me your take on how Michael Richards should have handed the comedy store. When you said he should have come out, he should have said, here's my problems. I'm not a funny comic. I was self-conscious. You guys made me feel bad. I wanted to hurt your feelings. It had nothing to do with race. I tried to hurt your feelings. You're right. It all would have gone away because we go, yeah, well, that is what happened. It is what happened. That's precisely what Charlie Sheen did. When Charlie Sheen came out and he said, look, this is how I roll. I smoke rocks. I pay girls to leave. I don't pay them to have sex. Everybody was like, what the fuck? What do you say to that? You can't say anything. Everybody was hashtag Tigerblood. It was all over. He became like, sort of, till the HIV thing came. That kind of put a damper. But you're right. Sheen was the original. Sheen was the original. He sat in the hot speed. Everybody was waiting for the tearful John Jones-style apology and it did not come. He was huge because of it. He ended up doing a comedy or an appearance tour or whatever. He did seven and a half million dollars in tickets on a two week tour because of that one sit down where he refused to apologize. I like to party. He didn't even have any comedy. He didn't know what to do. So he went to these things, coked up, thinking he was just going to power through it with charisma and people were booing and people, he was like, hey, I got your money. I already got your money, which is fucking crazy to yell at a lot of people that have bought your tickets. But then he adjusted. He got smart and he brought guys like Russell Peters in to sit down with him and interview him. And they actually worked out a routine and it actually became an entertaining show towards the last leg of the tour. But his ability to step up and say, hey, I like Coke. I like to smoke Coke. I get together. I get a bunch of girls. I pay him money. I fuck them and then they leave. And everybody's like, well, because that's what everybody's always avoided. It's like to catch someone. Oh, he's doing drugs. Right. Oh, he's getting prostituted. The cover up is always worse than the crime. Again, you go back to John Jones. John Jones gets tagged in that Coke thing. He pops on Fox and the woman asks him why he did it. And John said, well, you know, and he tried to dance around. He had these pocketed lines. I did it to get high. Next question, stupid. Yeah. That's how you hit it. So yeah, it was fun. I was at the party. It's having a good time. I didn't know you were going to test me. Right. That's the answer. But use the truth on your side. It just shuts everybody down. And it's endearing and refreshing. Well, this current thing that he's on right now, I wonder if he can do that with this. I mean, I wonder if he knows what it was that he took. You know, I mean, I just don't know. I'm really confused by this one because I don't know how many different options there could have been where these are the two things that he tested positive for. I don't know how many options it could have been other than him taking that because he was getting off steroids. But that doesn't even seem to make sense because he had been tested like much more recently or before that, like close to that. And he didn't have that in his system. And he didn't have steroids in his system. But to Victor Conte's credit, Victor Conte did question John Jones' testosterone levels and epitestosterone levels before- Honest carbon isotope test. Yes. I remember. Yeah. And they were for Gacy. What could cause that? I was just saying, but all you're going to do is confuse people when you start talking about that. And frankly, you can't get doctors to totally agree. Even USADA with their highest scientists and everything, there's some confusion there. There was something for Gacy going on, but it wasn't enough. It was just enough to start rumors not to actually take him in and go against him. But you know, you glossed over what I opened the show with and I thought it was going to be one of the high points of the whole podcast. I didn't know if you had to do it. No, not the comment. I don't know if you had to do it, so I don't mean to go back to it. But the point that this test that we're all talking about is June 16th and there's got to be another shoe that's getting ready to drop. Now, whether that comes back hot or when it comes back clean, we don't know. But there's no way that USADA's last time testing a guy for a fight that was supposed to take a place this last Saturday, it was June 16th. There's just no way. They've got to be at least another test out there and possibly two. Brock Lesnar, they test him every other day for a while. He tested him five times in the first two weeks. That was in the first two weeks. Yeah, like eight times in total. Cyborg, same thing. They did the same thing to her. They tested her a ton of times. Yeah, I don't know. This is just speculation, right? We really won't know and I'm sure we'll find out shortly. Because those tests take a while to get the results back because they're very, very thorough. And if he tested June 16th, you've got to assume big high profile UFC 200 and a guy who's already tested positive for something before. So they're going to be sneaking around trying to catch him. What was the crazy story where he went, he was hiding a ring? Is that true? I wasn't there. Let's not tell the story. All right, let's tell the story. Usada came in and again- By the way, this is alleged. Yeah, this is just the story. The story. But this is from some of his teammates, UFC fighters that claim they were there. And that doesn't make it true. Might be guys tired of him beating the fuck out of them too. Yeah, that's right. All the disclaimers aside, let's get down to the entertainment side of this. So Usada rolls in to Jackson's gym to do a test on John Jones. And there was only some coaches in there and John, there was like five people there at the time. So he can see them coming. Where they parked, he can see them coming. So they don't know what to do with them. They hide them underneath the cage. They hide- John Jones hides under the cage. They tell John, we don't know where he is. And this is before we were enrolled in the program. He did not need to disclose his whereabouts. At the same time, if they show up and find you, you must tap Vandalite. The situation, you must test. They can't find you. You didn't have to test back then. Anyway, he hides under the ring. They say, well, where is he? He's supposed to, you know, this is his gym. They say, wait, what? I know where he is. So instead of leaving like they thought they would do, they take a seat. Well, there's like eight hours left in the business day. They don't ever leave. However, along with six, eight hour time frame, John's under the cage the entire time. So people are coming and going. The whole thing is finally they shut the lights off and go to lock the doors. Now John can come out. Well, Usada found out about that and they wanted, they didn't do this. They wanted to get a warrant and go under that ring under the theory that at some point in that six to eight hour span, he would have had to pee. Well, they wanted to go under forensically and collect that urine. That's how upset they were that they had been had. Now I realize that we're saying all the nice stuff. That happened. How long was the time frame and all that? That part's a great story. Even if it didn't happen. They were coming after him after that. When they found out that they had been doing anything they hate, they don't like when people say their test doesn't work and they don't like being duped. They came after, remember when I predicted Rumble Jones will not happen? Yes, he did. That's because I had that story and I knew Usada was looking for him. I knew they had boots on the ground in Albuquerque waiting for him to leave the club, waiting to get him for anything. I was armed with that. I've never told that side. That's why I predict that fight when it happened. I knew they were after him. This is before we had to do the whereabouts like we do now. Back then it was just random and they had peeped. They were just waiting. They were just waiting for the right time and they were going to grab him. Wow. If they got a warrant to check underneath the ... Well, how would they prove it was his pee? It's a lot of problems. Fighters are dirty. There's a lot of problems. Just to show support, they could all just whip their dicks out and pee underneath the cage. If you really love the guy, this is pollute the water. Or better yet, Joe, you go under and you clean underneath the cage. That would also solve the problem. It turns out John's pregnant. Get under there and ... Yeah, it was just a mess. But yeah, that's ... Could be anybody's urine. There you go. Yeah, it was ... I mean, that's a great story though. It's one of the great all-time avoiding a drug test story. Sure. Maybe the best. Right? Yeah. You came on here to promote a submission grappling thing. You never even got to it. Yeah, we got a big thing coming up. Sunday. This coming Sunday. Yeah, July 17th, live and free on Flow Combat. Now, you got to be a member. That's the trick sell to it, but you're not buying a pay-per-view window. You just get a monthly subscription. There's content everywhere. What is the website, Flow Combat? Flowcombat.com. F-L-O? That's right. F-L-O combat. Thank you for correcting me on that. EBI rules, Eddie Bravo Invitational rules, they'll go for eight minutes. There's no score. You either find a submission or you don't. If you don't, you go into an overtime format. Now, you know how EBI works. This is the biggest promotion of the whole thing, isn't that somebody's going to go out and compete. I've been a grappler since I've been retired, but we always had a clause that if you could eat up the clock, you got to draw. Nobody loses. Well, that's a victory sometimes when you're in over your head. You're out there wrestling for a draw. When I had Gavau, I was out there wrestling for a draw. Under EBI rules, somebody's going to tap. So when you factor in, you've got Jake Shields taking on Chris Lidle. One of those guys is going to tap. When you've got Vinny Magulienz, maybe the best grappler there is right now. Magaliese. He always corrects me on that too. I feel like it's tomato, tomato. Vinny Magulienz is how I said, Vinny Magulienz. All right. He's going to be taking on Ronnie Marks. King Mo got hurt. He hurt his neck. Ronnie Marks has now stepped in. He fought you out. Oh, King Mo hurt his neck? Yeah, King Mo hurt his neck. King Mo didn't pull out. I pulled him off the card. I found out he was hurt. It happened in his fight with Phil Davis, and he's one of the main training partners for Robbie Lawler, and he hasn't even been able to train with Robbie. I ran into Labario. You want to correct me on that name too? Thank you. I ran into Labario over the weekend at the Super Show, and he said, man, King Mo can't move. He just doesn't want to pull out. Herniated disc? Yeah, something like that. I don't have all the details, but I got a hold of Mo. I said, is this true? He said, yeah. God, it's so common and grappling. I was like, no. So many guys have fucked up next. Yeah, we got to pull that one. So, Ronnie Marks is in. He fought you out, Romero, Aaron Simpson. Do you remember those? He just signed with World Series of Fighting. So, Ronnie's in against Vinny, and then the biggest one, the absolute biggest one that wasn't meant to be, but this is the one that's got my phone ringing, Rico Rodriguez is coming back. Wow. After all these years, he's going to take on Fambi Arizona. Like, the week after he beat Anderson, this just happened. Really? But nobody came. See, people were like you. They didn't even know what was going on. Oh, I had heard about Roy Jones boxing some fan. Fought a fan. That guy was five and three in MMA, two and O in amateur boxing, and he gave Roy a match. He gave Roy a match until Roy figured him out. Boom, boom, shut him off. Well, this is after Roy had been knocked out brutally just a couple of months ago. Uh-huh. I think in Russia or Germany, that fight was, yeah. Yeah, that was awful. Yeah, Roy's staying busy though, you know. I just hate seeing him take punishment because he was such a great fighter. He was so good. It's so sad to see him now. His body just looks doughy. He doesn't look good. You know, he's still an excellent commentator though. I mean, it's not affecting the way he talks. Right. That is true. Yeah, it was good to see Roy though, but the point was, you know, you had a limited amount of people there. Right. So, in grappling events, and then Metamoris now, or at least for the last one, they've got a show coming up too, but the last one they had, we wrestled in front of nobody. I was kind of into that, but the point is, you know, grapplers like people there. I just kind of like that opposite feel from going into a packed arena to that feel, get more of a practice room atmosphere, at any rate, with kumite, now that you're correcting all my words. Is that what I'm trying to say? Yeah. This one sold out. So, the grapplers that are going to wrestle, they're going to have a roaring audience, and it's a rare thing. Well, the Eddie Bravo rules, Eddie Bravo Invitational rules are without a doubt the best rules because they force guys into bad situations. So, what it is is after the fight goes to the, would you have eight minutes? That's right. After it goes to the eight minute time difference, and there's a draw, what happens is you put guys in bad positions. So, just like in wrestling, one guy will start on the bottom. In jiu-jitsu, what they're doing with Eddie Bravo rules is one guy will start on your back, or he'll start in a position called spider web, which means you're defending. You get the guy on the bottom, he's defending against an arm bar. The guy on the top is inside control with the arm hooked and controlling the leg. So, it's a bad spot to be in if you're on the bottom, and it's a bad spot if a guy obviously has your back. So, by putting guys in those situations, you allow the fighter to try to work from a really bad spot to try to get a tap, and then you switch places. So, if you start on my back and you tap me, then I have at least an opportunity to try to tap you. And if you escape, then you wind up winning the whole thing. But it could be that you escape, and I escape, and you escape, and I escape. And we see a lot of those matches where it's like down to the wire, and if that's the case, then you count up the amount of time spent in control. So, if it takes you 10 seconds to escape, but it takes me 30 seconds to escape, you would win, because you escape quicker. Right. That's exactly right. It's a great way to figure out how to make grappling matches exciting. I talked to Eddie before we went into this, and I said, hey, listen, we're doing ... You know, what are you doing? We're going to fall in the same day. It's, how do you want to do this? You know, let's not get in a battle with each other. He goes, no, no, just the opposite. He said, I want these guys to have somewhere to wrestle. He said, but chill, do this. Take my rules. Call it EBI. He goes, but do it. He had a great point, Joe, and here's what his point was. He said, everybody that has a grappling event wants to make up their own rules. He said, but as an industry, for the gym owners, for the guys that are going into the gym and they're training every day, they need to be able to train the same way. The coach needs to be able to have a stopwatch, just like he does MMA. Five minute rounds, you do three of them. If you're in a main event or title fight, you do five of them. You go to a basketball court, you go ball. It's the same universal rules. He said, for an industry, we need to be all teammates, all no-gigijitsu, but they need to be able to train the same way so the coach can run a practice. He doesn't have to go, you guys training for Abu Dhabi over here, and you guys training for the IBJJF over here. So I thought, Eddie, you're right. Us promoters can all get together and unify some rules, like the unified rules of MMA. As an industry, the trickle down, which is the gyms, we can get this thing figured out and then we can start to have a hybrid. Eddie's rules really are quite perfect. He calls them the most gangster rules out there, but he's right. I talked to Vinny. I talked to some other guys that I talked to. Salah Ribeiro, they're going, look, it's EBI. That's how you find it. If you want to know who the best is, you got to go EBI rules. Yeah, it really is the best, and it stops all these draws. These draws are brutal. I mean, you have that Polaris match, you got all these amazing matchups, and then Gary Tonin versus Paul Harris. Draw. Right. Other fuck you haven't draws. Everything is a draw. Draw, draw, draw. You can't have people get excited about draws. They don't get excited about draws. It's not fun. I talked to Halleck about that, and Halleck goes, I do have one problem with that. Guys are more, I can get them to wrestle more. Guys kind of like that clause, and you got to have a time limit somewhere, and we don't quite know how to figure out the overtime yet. He said, but the problem I'm running into is I want a champion. He said, and it's hard to build a division and decide who's the next number one contender if you don't have an architecture in place where a guy advances through a bracket, if you will. You have to have a winner. Right. Yeah. That is a giant issue with everybody else's rule set. I just think that if you look at submission grappling, and especially people that have a problem with the quote unquote violence of MMA, the submission aspect of it is beautiful to watch. It's exciting. It's dynamic. You watch someone get choked out. It's crazy. I mean, it's really interesting. It's fun. It's an exciting part of martial arts, and it's something that guys can do when they retire from fighting. It's something that a lot of people that don't want to get involved in MMA, but you know, guys like the Mendez brothers or Gary Toner, he's actually probably going to do MMA eventually, but all these super talented grapplers, it gives them an opportunity to show their stuff. Yeah. I love that you know who Toner is, by the way. He's so exciting. He's got some crazy moves. That's how I'm on. Oh yeah, Toner on him. Yeah, he's fantastic, but you've got so many guys like this. If you dangle that big carrot and all of a sudden you're just signing the most popular and the most famous guys, it's kind of tough. I really like the Olympic model or even the NCAA model. The best guy always steps forward, but the best guy a lot of times has a hard time getting his chance. Promoters want guys that are going to sell. It's like, let's put that on hold. If you're a good promoter, you'll figure out how to sell. You just will. If you're a promoter, use Dana's shirt. You'll bring in the bells and whistles, but let's give everybody a chance the same way the Olympics games does. Anybody that thinks they're best, raise your hand. Let's get here and figure it out. Now we're going to have to have a lot of events. We're going to have to work, but let's get a system in place and let's figure it out. Boom. Boom. One set of rules. What is your event called? It is called submission underground. It can be found at flowcombat.com. Live and free to all members. What is this video? Let's play this video and let's end on this. Oh, let's play it. Look at that handsome guy. Let's end on this video and anything more to tell people. Your son in CH on Instagram, what is it? Chale Sun-in on Twitter? Absolutely. Facebook, all that jazz? Yes. Easy to hold you. Thank you for the point. If you're not sure if your brother is going to announce this show, he fell a week ago. He blew his ACL up. He blew his ACL, can't fly. Yeah. He was doing a lip sync competition. Yes. Apparently, he got up, he gutted it out, and he tried to keep going and then he tipped over sideways. Yes. And fell over again. It was hilarious. Sad. Sad. I want Bruce to get better. Very funny though. Very funny. Unfortunately, this is the second time he blew his knee out doing that too, by the way. He blew his knee out. That jump that he does, it's time. When he does that, he leaps in the air. He blew his ACL out doing that once too. I watched him limp out of the ring. This is his second ACL surgery. So it's a fucking hard job, folks. Okay? All right. Chail Sun and Ladies and Gentlemen, and we'll end with this, Chail Sun and Submission Underground. Again, Flow, what is it? Combat, Flowcombat.com. Flowcombat.com, and it is this Sunday, July 17th, live and free for all members. And we'll tweet it. It'll be on my Twitter, so I'll let you guys know in advance. Thank you, brother. I'm going to have you on, and anytime you want to come on again, open invitation. I appreciate that. Thank you, pal. Let's play it. Hello, America. I am Chail P. Sun, and I am here to speak to you about the pathetic state of affairs in today's grappling competition. When grapplers come, when promotions bring these guys, they're not sending their best. They're boring. They're dull. They're not risk takers. I am going to change all of that. No more 20-minute matches where it can end in a draw. What kind of atmosphere ends in a draw? This is anti-competition. One set of rules. Somebody must win, and somebody must lose. Guys, this is America. We don't go to draw. We play for keeps. We play for somebody to get their hand raised. Guys, if you don't know, you damn sure should know. On July 17th, submission underground is invading Portland, Oregon's Roseland Theater. Now, tickets are sold out, but you've still got a chance. Go to your desktop. Grab your smartphone. Send a pigeon. Send a fax if you have to. Let your friends know. Don't be left in the dark. Monday morning around the water cooler. Don't be the only person that didn't witness history. Go to flowcombat.com. God bless America. Good night, everybody. That's a genius.