Joe Rogan - Big John McCarthy Explains 12-6 Elbow Rule

Right thing let's go back to that because it's we never we glossed over I did a great segue there you did first time ever very good The 12 to 6 elbow strike was it because this is what I've always said and I believe you're the one who told me this That when the commissions were talking about techniques They had seen like those karate guys and ESPN at 1 o'clock in the morning breaking bricks with their elbows They're like you just no way you could allow that strike because that strike would be too deadly Was that what happened close close? Look at when we talk about commissions the there was only a couple of commissions at The writing of the unified rules as far as when we came, you know to get a degree that was back in April of 2001 All right, and New Jersey Started talking about the UFC was not the first, you know Show to go there But New Jersey after they had the IFC and then the UFC and then they had a couple other small shows ring of fire starts to come in and Everyone has their own rules. The UFC had their own rules IFC had their own rules ring of fire wants to do their own rules and New Jersey wasn't we can't have these people coming in and Giving us what their rules are we if they if we're gonna do this as a sport we're gonna do this under our rules and Okay, what we're gonna do is we're gonna bring people together to create those rules people that you know Supposedly know what the who they really invited other than you know I think you had the Mohegan Sun as far as the tribal commission come down They were part of it, New Jersey as a commission and you had Mark Ratner on a conference call He was not there, but it was before Ratner worked for the UFC This is long before it was working for the Nevada State working for the Nevada State Athletic Commission He's the executive director and they bring in all of these promoters and the promoters were king of the cage Terry treble cock you had Dana white Lorenzo Fertitta John McCarthy Joe Silva and Jeff Blatnick from the UFC you had people from pride you key condo and Conda or whatever and a decade. I can't remember his name and you had Paul Smith you had a couple but that was it that was the people there and The people that were really talking the most were was me and a doctor named Dom Coletta From New Jersey He was brought in as the medical advisor for the state of New Jersey and when it came to elbows They they tried to get rid of elbows That was their big thing and I was I was sitting there trying to combat what they were saying because Even in New Jersey at the time they had Muay Thai And so they had elbows that were allowed in this form I said look it and Jeff and I had put together a CD at the time you had CDs where CD rom Yeah, there you go, man Make it on computer and it was because I knew they were gonna attack throws because that was what made Larry Hazard you had T to RT spot Evan Tanner and he picks him up in a body lock and he brings him down and he knocks him out and Larry Hazard went like his heart started going. He's like, oh we don't like that and So I knew they were gonna attack throws and and so I took with Jeff put together all of these throws from the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Here's all your throws from judo. Here's all your throws from Greco Roman, right? And God bless Corellan because he picks people up and drives him on their head and it's legal Okay, and I had all these throws from freestyle wrestling Greco Roman wrestling judo with all of these Olympic athletes picking somebody up and then falling on their head being tossed on their head and That's what saved the throws and what we came up with was look what we don't want is someone being able to control another human being and Purposely make a tense spike out of them and try to drive them down onto the mat on top of their heads Exactly so they Bob Sapp did to Minnatoro in pride pride in different set of rules neck up for a long time Yes, and that's you know, maybe forever that was what we were Looking at and so that's how we came up with you know No spiking and spiking I knew what it was because I worked out the language there because I was sitting there saying well Hold on timeout you want as you want? I'm the one that's got to come up and say this is legal This is not so we do this If someone takes and you know a guy shoots a lazy double He brings his head to the center picks him up his legs either go straight up or you know His legs are out like this and you purposely hold him there and try to drive him straight down. That's a spike That's illegal If I take and I pick you up as a suplex and I bring you up over the top I can bring you down and as long as there is an arc To it any arc makes the throw legal. So rampage Jackson picks up Ryan Bader and spins him and brings him down straight on his head legal and it makes it quick and easy for me as the referee I see the arc. It's legal. I don't see an arc and I see him holding him and bring him straight down now I know it's illegal. And so I was trying to make things as easy as I could when it came to the elbows What they were trying to do was take away all elbows and I go look at you have elbows in Muay Thai elbows every time you take something away You are changing the sport and making it to where it's harder to actually have action Because you take away elbows I grab wrist and if I'm good at grabbing wrist I can hold wrist for a while and I can't do anything I've got to pull my hand out where if You grab my wrist and I'm John Jones and I take and I roll that elbow over and boom and bring it down you let go of my wrists because you're being attacked and So they looked at it and said and the the Tom Coletta being the doctor said he goes look it Yeah, I understand what he's saying. He said I have a problem with one and it came from Gan McGee Versus a guy named Brad Gabe Bad Brad Gabriel from the IFC the very first show they had Gan McGee, you know, you remember six foot eleven, you know at the time in this show about 335 pounds and he's fighting a guy named Brad Gabriel who's 6 1 210 215 pounds and Gan from you Brad Gabriel is trying to get a hold again just to survive and Gan has taken his arm he's boom boom boom and he's bringing it straight down on top of Brad Gabriel's head and then he gets his back and he does the same thing like the old Brazilian style of bringing shots to the back of the head and He said he goes I I've I can't have that He's I see I've seen them break big blocks of ice like that. That's a dangerous elbow We can't have that and I started to combat it and Lorenzo Fertitta looks at me goes John. Let it go. It's stupid Wow, and I go yes, sir boss and I backed away from it. And so that became so that's the 12 to 6 elbow That's the 12 to 6 elbow and the whole thing with the whole Positioning of it 12 to 6 I came up with that they're saying All right, let me just make this clear this so we're saying that my hand comes straight up and straight down That's what's illegal. So 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock, but if I'm inside control and I bring my arm like this We're okay with it and they go. Yes and one to sevens. Okay one to seven 1130 to all that stuff sort of 1130 is pushing it if you're pushing it but and The problem was see I was there. I Understood everything and I came out and started teaching classes and stuff And if you listen to me, you knew what it was, but other than that you're getting Oh, there's a paper written and so you're reading the paper and it says no downward elbow strikes and That's not what the rule was right? So we had actually had you know season two of the ultimate fighter Joe Stevenson is gonna end up. He's in the semifinals. I had done his earlier match. He had fought Marcus Davis and I went over the rules with him. And so when we talk about going over rules with fighters, there's a lot that I say You know people think that you know No, don't don't pull hair. Don't do that. You don't do that But I've gone over things and explained to him. Yes, he says because he asked me he says in the guard Can I do this elbow? Absolutely from the guard you can do it from the guys you're doing it from 6 to 12 exactly Well, you're doing it. It's just 9 to 3 3 to 9 whatever you're on your back, right and He Goes and he's gonna fight in the semifinals and he's got Herb Dean is his referee and Herb tells him No, you can't do that and he goes but John McCarthy says I can do it and he goes No, you can't do that. And so I got one. This is the problem with MMA as we have it. Hmm Herb Says no Joe comes out to me says hey, you told me that I could do this I said absolutely you can he goes Herb Dean just said I can't I'll take care of it and I go to Herb and I Said hey, did you tell Joe Stevenson that he can't do this elbow strike? He goes. Yeah, he says that's illegal You can't do that. I go Joe. I said, I'm sorry Herb. I go. What do you mean? It's illegal? I go it's 12 to 6 I go his hands not coming straight up and straight down and he goes Yeah, John he goes that's if the clocks on the wall But if you're on your back and your clocks on the ceiling, he goes that's 12 to 6. Oh, Jesus Oh, this is what happens and I looked at I said her what in the fuck have you ever seen a clock on a ceiling? And he goes why haven't but it makes sense and You have these official hands by gravity. Hello, but it's still it's yeah Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. It's right now. I can tell you changed because of doctors and Fear the no one wants to be the one to change it Look at look at all the controversy we had when we changed just a little bit that we've changed so far and that was one Of the things we wanted to change the hand touch you had it Yeah, and I'll talk about that if you want, but we had it in there and the doctors for the ABC said Nope, we don't want to touch that. So right now I can tell you what was their rationale their rationales They don't understand it and they're afraid to say They are they look at the sport and they look at it from a different view than you and I as People that are a part of it you and I as fans any of that they look at it from well right now We've been doing this for we'll say 20 years 15 years wherever you're at how long they've been doing it And we haven't had a problem having that as being illegal. So as soon as we bring it into Okay, now it's legal and we have a fighter that supposedly gets hurt by it and now they come after us saying well before it Was illegal you guys made it legal. That's why I got hurt and that's what they're trying to avoid They don't they're looking at litigation and they're looking at saying, you know what? Why bring that in? There's no point It's so frustrating. Totally. That's a very frustrating. But right now I will tell you the University of Auburn is Doing a study for us about elbows and the power behind each different type that we're having them do Being that one up and down so I've already had I used to do things with sports science and they've already done that test for me So I know what it is, right? But we'll have a university having a test And so now it's gonna come out that elbow strikes all these elbow strikes that are allowed are all much more powerful Than that elbow strike. Well, not only that but Forget about power because you know, you could take whatever, you know, Dominic Cruz's most powerful technique and then use Francis and gano's jab So are we are we just saying that you can't have power because that doesn't make any sense at all Well, no because see that's what the whole thing is with that elbow strike, right? It's so powerful But what about a fucking it's not exactly nothing compared to like a wheel kick this is a back kick I try to get people to understand, you know being a hunter you have an idea of Ballistics, okay, and it's like and people get in this whole thing about, you know Girls and guys and fighting and suffering and I try to tell them look it you cannot expect Demetrius Johnson to have the power of Francis ningano or steep in OCH or steep in music or Daniel Cormier or let's go down lower George St Pierre giant heavy has a hundred and twenty five pounds We'll say the night that he's fighting 135 139 pounds of weight behind it. He is a 22 caliber, right? Okay, I'm not saying he can't hurt you but he's not gonna drop you Because he just doesn't have that size and you have certain genetics I'm not genetic certain components that are coming into play because like the Joseph Benavide's fight Look at what Joseph Joseph was doing for them brings it coming in more power based upon movement of bodies Right he can drop some decision timing He can drop somebody with a kick because there's more weight and more power behind it He can drop somebody with a knee But when we look at lighter weight fighters, we're gonna get people human beings are put together basically the same. Okay, obviously there's This guy can take a shot this guy can't okay, that's out there but if you're a fighter and you get used to Accepting damage accepting punishment you can accept a lot of things to a certain point where that person's speed and power come together to create a velocity that will put anybody out and that just comes with strength and weight and size Because the 22 caliber bullet is not like the 45 caliber boy Yeah, and no matter who the athlete is the downward elbow is not going to be the most powerful strike in their arsenal unless They're just some fucking downward elbow wizard and there might be those guys out there I mean it's and the Thai world there might be some guy who does one of those tomahawk elbows it just has a vicious one, but For those guys for this few and far between so tell me how that elbow is gonna be stronger than a guy with the rolling Thunder kick with his heel hitting someone in the top. It's not gonna be or it's in bar bows a wheel kick. Hello