Joe Rogan & Ben Shapiro on the Transgender Movement, Men vs. Women in Sports

Hello freak bitches. So I think there's that. But then there's also look, you know, like the Colin Kaepernick thing, I think that probably cost a lot of ratings for the NFL. Yeah, there was that poll that came out that said, I think of the 12% of people who said that they were not watching NFL games last year, 28% of that 12% said that the Kaepernick national anthem thing was the reason. Yeah, I mean some people, it probably emboldened them. They probably liked it and they wanted to watch it more. This is fascinating about the cultural breakdown of the country. Basically, white people hated it and black people loved it. This is how the polls were. It was like 72% of black people thought it was great and like an equal percentage of white people thought that it was just terrible. Which is a fascinating look at sort of how race relations work in the country at large. It's actually one of the reasons I think that ESPN has been losing ratings. Like I used to watch ESPN religiously and now all I want is to just watch my sports and not be bothered with the politics. Right. Because I say I do that during the day. And it's a pet peeve of mine that every time I turn on ESPN, I have to lecture about Caitlyn Jenner or about Black Lives Matter. It's like, shut up. Caitlyn Jenner hasn't even been athletically relevant since before I was born. I was born in 1984. Well, the Caitlyn Jenner piece, when they did it for ESPN, and I don't know if this is true or not, but the word was that her getting athlete of the year, whatever the award was that she got the hero of the year, it was like the hero of the year award. The hero was directly tied to the exclusive interview with Diane Sawyer. That makes sense. They sold the two of them together as a package deal, which I buy 100 percent. If you don't, come on, think about where she came from. She's a fucking Kardashian. OK? She's a giant Kardashian. That's what she is. Now notice I'm saying she. Yeah, you're saying she. I would say very politically correct. Yeah, I'm not. But the video where they circled her house and she was like moving in the shadows behind the drapes. Did you ever see that? No, it was wonderful. It was wonderful. She mean it was like the first time she was revealing herself as this woman. So they're circling her house. She's this glorious house and like looks like it's in Malibu or somewhere where they're circling the house and it's in the hills with a helicopter like filming. It's like fucking high production value shit. This isn't just like, hey, you know, we met with Caitlin at home. Caitlin, tell us your troubles. You know, like Kristen Beck, the former Navy SEAL, you know, who just sits down very reasonably and says, this just feels better for me. This is who I am. Right. No, no. So there was like curtains and shadows and it was mysterious. And then she starts talking like, well, you know, I've always been a man. You're like, oh, God. And then there was the weird weirdest part where she said she got surgery, but it doesn't make me any. I was it wasn't like I was any less of a man or less of a woman before the surgery. Well, this is the case about gender. Right. Well, then why get the surgery? That was like this is well, there are a lot of questions as to the logic of all of this. You call Caitlin Jenner. She Caitlin Jenner is a biological man. I'm sorry. I'm triggered. Sorry to break this to some of the people who listen to your show. Caitlin Jenner is it. I had a tweet this week. All the people that listen probably agree with you. Yeah, it's a good amount. The number one retweeted tweet I have ever had had 100 and I tweeted I think a day ago and it has 120 thousand likes. And it was there was a headline from CNN that said transgender man gives birth to trans. What was it was transgender man assigned the female sex at birth gives birth to a healthy baby boy. And so I tweeted woman gives birth to boy. Because it's a woman. I mean, like that's not a headline. I'm sorry. Like I'm just because the woman believes she's a man doesn't make her a man. Like biology still exists. Sex still exists. If you want to say she's a woman who feels like a man. That's fine. If you want to say that. And by the way, I don't even care if she gets hormone treatments or if she wants to have surgery. Like it's a free country. What the hell you want. But when you start insisting that I that I just throw biology out the window, I don't understand why that's any better than I is a religious person saying every time you say something, you have to mention God. I don't have the right to do that to you. Like what? That's idiotic. Are you fascinated by it? Are you fascinated by the transgender? The I'm fascinated by obsession with it. Yes, that's a good way of saying it. There's a there's not just an obsession. It's it's compulsory and it's rabid. So I think that there's a couple of things that are going on. One is that it's very dark. But I think that there is an element of like this is different. And we get to we get to revel in the in the weirdness of it. But we're going to pretend that it's all about the civil rights of it. We're going to feel like special because we're because we're on their side. We're not watching Caitlyn Jenner because it's a curiosity and because it's weird and entertaining. We're doing it because we're on Caitlyn Jenner's side. But we feel really good about it. People forever. Yeah, right. I mean, Renee Richards was a trans person. Yeah, I mean, it's happened throughout history. I mean, there's there's what was a reading a couple of days ago about a Roman like there was something about reports of some trans soldier in the Roman army, you know, more than a thousand years ago. It's got to be if it's if it exists now and it's existed before it was popular. Yeah, I mean, there's got to be a lot of people that turn trans now just because it's exciting. Oh, there it is right there. A trans soldier in the ancient Roman. That wouldn't of course. It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be surprising. I mean, I'm not shocked. No, I mean, it's a condition. I mean, the D.S.M. called it gender identity disorder and then they called it gender dysphoria. It's a condition. I mean, like it was gender dysphoria. And but that in a lot of people's mind is labeling it somehow or a negative. Well, I mean, it is highly linked to suicidality. There's a 40 percent lifetime suicide rate for people who have this particular gender disorder that seems to me not to be like a great positive. Whether or not they transition. Yeah, whether or not the transition. Yeah, I mean, I don't care if you transition to what you want to do. But but the idea that that we as an entire society have to redefine what sex is and we have to blind ourselves to a biology is this is something I'm not willing to do. I think that it's actually damaging the kids, particularly. I'm more than willing to call her a she and change. But you can only change your name once. I'm willing to call Caitlyn Jenner Caitlyn Jenner. I'm not willing to call Caitlyn Jenner a she because you can't change your sex. You can change your name. You can change your name to whatever you want. I don't care. But you can't. Caitlyn Jenner is not a chicken. Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman. Caitlyn Jenner is a man, a biological man. And if a man lost his penis and and, you know, in a tragic accident, it wouldn't make him a woman. And if he were born with high doses of estrogen in his bloodstream, he would also not be a woman. Right. You're determined by your chromosomes. And this is not even talking about intersex people like intersex is an actual status. Intersex is a biological status. But this nonsense that if you, Joe Rogan, decide tomorrow that you are a woman, no surgeries, no homeowner, no homeowner, nothing. You just tomorrow you wake up and not decide, but you feel like a woman. Then you have always been a woman. We must treat you as a woman. You don't have to change anything about yourself for us to even determine whether you're a woman. We just like no. I'm sorry. No. I mean, like I had a mental illness. I had a grandfather. I got I get so much shit for this. But I had this is not me being unsympathetic to people who suffer from a condition that is really tragic and obviously harms people. You know, in terms of the again, the rates of suicide and depression are astounding. My grandfather was a bipolar schizophrenic and it would have not been good for him or my family. If people had said to him, Nate, you're right. The radio is talking to you. Nate, you're right. The curtains are talking to you. He went and they put him in a mental hospital. They gave him lithium and then he was better and he could actually live a normal, relatively happy life. There's no good treatment for gender identity disorder, gender dysphoria, whatever you want to call it. But to suggest that it is a condition that doesn't require treatment, that really it's just that you're actually brain female. Again, this is a scientific. There's no scientific evidence to back this whatsoever. Even these studies that have been done talking about there's a female brain and a male brain. First of all, if you say this to a feminist, you're a sexist. Right. Right. If you say to a feminist, there's a female brain and a male brain and male brain works differently than the female brain. The feminists will look at you like, how dare you? Well, it's also one of the rare times where you're allowed to celebrate classic definitions of female beauty when a man embraces him when he becomes a woman. Lipstick, high heels, short skirt. This is like not sexist. Caitlyn Jenner was only a woman when Caitlyn Jenner was on the cover of Vanity Fair and a bustier. Right. Right. But if he had just said, listen, I look exactly the same as I did yesterday, but I'm a woman. Yeah. If he got a short haircut and dress like Billie Jean King. Right. It's the reason why the why the media loves Laverne Cox, because Laverne Cox has had surgeries and looks a lot like a woman. So I don't know who the guy from the transgender woman from Orange is the New Black. I never watched that. I've never watched that show either, but she's on the cover of Time magazine. Oh, or he's on the cover of Time magazine. Well, there was the woman in that show. Isn't that the one where the girl who Ruby wrote? Is that the girl? That's Laverne Cox. OK, that's a woman or man. That's a man. I used to be a man. It used to be a man. It's woman now. Very tricky. No, still a man, but transgender. How far I'm so out of the loop. I'm that old man. I'm that old man. Well, look at that headline there, right? It says America's next civil rights frontier. And that's the key. You have a bunch of people in the United States who are suggesting that they want the next civil rights fight, always the next civil rights fight. Right. So the civil rights fight is immigration or the civil rights fight is gay marriage or the civil rights fight is transgender. How about this? How about there was only one real civil rights fight? And it was about black people who had been historically oppressed in the United States for 200 years. There had been slaves. Yes, who had been slaves and then just grow. And this is correct. Yeah. OK, the worst that Caitlyn Jenner had experienced was being incredibly wealthy in a high net worth suburb. This is not to say that transgender people don't, you know, aren't discriminated against in some in some areas of American life. I'm sure that's true. But it's also like behavior is not the same as being born black or being born Asian or being born with, you know, disabled. If if I'm a business owner and I hire you and you're a man and you come in the next day and you're dressed in a woman's clothing saying you're a woman, but you still have a full beard, like I don't see why I as a business owner am expected to eat the cost of that. Like that just seems that seems bizarre to me. Eat the cost is a great way to phrase it. I didn't have a dog in this fight. I didn't I was completely open and liberal about it until there was a case where a man who had been a man for 30 years became a woman for a little less than two years and then started MMA fighting women. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Getting the fuck out of these women and shocker and not proclaiming that he or she used to be a man because what in quotes it was a medical condition that I did not need to disclose. Like that's not a fucking medical condition. Right. And if you ever watch the fights, she's like the Fallon Fox. Yeah, she wasn't winning because she was skillful. She was fucking manhandling these women. It was ugly. Of course. It was hard. It's so funny how the transgender movement destroys the feminist movement by living off of the the sort of lies that the feminist movement promulgated. The feminist movement said stupid things like women and men equally athletic proficient. Well that's something that has been repeated very recently that there's no biological difference in the genders and it's all social. Absolute horseshit. I mean, I'm sorry. There's no scientific evidence to back that and it's particularly true with regard to actual physical capacity. This is just nonsense. Not just no scientific evidence but a mountain. Yeah. Yeah. I mean my favorite study on this is you know there was you remember there was that those commercials about like throwing like a girl running like a girl. Right. There's feminist commercials saying what is it to be running like a girl? They would show an adult woman and she'd be running all girly and then they would show a little girl and she's running and it's still a little girly but she's running you know like normally. It's only it's only exactly fierce. It's only society that has forced the little girl to run like a woman. First of all, I have a three year old girl. She runs like a girl. Second of all, it's not because I'm teaching her. It's not because her mom runs because she doesn't right. She play with dolls because you're a sexist pig. It's because of that. My daughter started off liking trucks like in the first year and I give a shit and then now she likes playing with dolls and dressing up in princess dresses. Like who cares? She's a girl. She's always been a girl. She'll always be a girl whether she likes trucks or whether she likes dresses. Yeah. That was an issue with one of my daughters too. My daughter was a little worried about her. I go she's going to be a dyke. She's like no. What's the big deal? You like lesbians? Who cares? I don't care. I'm like I do not care and she's like and then she turned the corner and then she got that but we just let her be whatever she's in but she was really in the like Batman for a while. Yeah. My daughter is in a Batman and she was in a Wonder Woman. Like who cares? But what's funny about this is that the left kept saying even when I met my wife, right, who's a conservative and I made her more conservative when we got married because that's what men tend to do to their wives but she you know I remember early on we had a conversation about this and I said women don't throw like men and she got like all offended and I said but that's factually true. She said right but it's insulting. It's like no that's factually true. Like I'm sorry like there have been studies out of a thousand if you took a woman throwing a baseball and then a thousand men throwing a baseball the woman will throw faster than out of those thousand men is in the book The Sports Genes the woman will throw faster than two of those men out of a thousand and we're not talking about like Gus Gossage here. We're talking about regular humans. We're talking about the accountant from down the block. We're talking about Paul Ryan flinging a baseball. Yeah. Right. I mean that's not the way this stuff works. The counter that Fallon Fox used was that she actually lost to a woman. She lost to a woman named Ashley Evan Smith. But what I said was no this proves my point is that you're not good. You're just a man. Well this was you know John McEnroe got slapped all over the lot when he said about Serena Williams. She's great. Serena Williams is great and all but if Serena Williams were compete he said she's the best female player ever and they were like well why not just the best player ever because she's a woman. Like if she were a man she'd get her ass kicked and everyone's like no how dare you. There is something called the universal tennis ranking. She would rank in the mid ranks of college male players if she were a man. And Serena Williams said like five years ago I never want to play with like Andy Roddick he'd kill me. She actually did this. There was a 200th ranked man in the world who she wanted to just warm up with and they played like just a normal match for he won six one six nothing. Right. And he was like ranked 200th in the world and the only shock was that he dropped a point to her. Well there was the issue of Renee Richards when Renee Richards started playing tennis against women and kicking their ass and he was a middling player at best as a woman or as a man rather but as a woman he was a fucking killer. I mean this is what should insult feminists. It turns out that Caitlyn Jenner won all these hero of the year awards and everything. We men are so great that even when we decide to be women we're better than women. That was the most bizarre thing. It's the only stupid thing. He's only been a woman for six months. But he's amazing at it. He won woman of the year. He's incredible at it. He's just he's a natural. He's a gold medalist as a woman. It turns out that men are better even at being women than women. No wonder feminists are pissed and they should be and this whole glossing over the difference between feminists who have been claiming that women are distinct from men and important and different and better in certain ways. I don't understand how you hold these two simultaneous thoughts. Hillary Clinton needs to be president because we need a female president but also Donald Trump if he said he was a woman tomorrow would be a woman. How do you hold those two simultaneous thoughts? I always thought that in the last week of the election if Trump thought he was going to lose he should have just declared himself a woman and then he too could have run as the first female president. That would have been amazing. That would have been incredible trolling. If he showed up on the dress and lipstick. The entire left. I identify as a woman. I'm the best looking woman ever. I've been voted as the best looking woman of all time. Money's not a lesbian. The great arguments that I got in online. It wasn't even arguments but so many people were calling me a bigot because of this Fallon Fox thing. It was stunning because it was so confusing to me. I'm talking about defending a biological woman. These biological women, at least two of them got the fuck beaten out of them by Fallon Fox before they found out that she used to be a man. I'm like that's not an issue to these people. This one woman said she's always been a woman. I said okay. She impregnated a woman and got her pregnant. I go what about then? She goes even then. Even then she was a woman. She was a woman. She was fucking a woman with her dick and getting that woman pregnant. We are in fantasy land. It's crazy towns out there. This doesn't mean ... This is what's crazy. Just because something's illogical, you can't just decide that someone's a bigot. We're in a weird area. We're talking about bone structure. Here's the crazy thing. Muscle density. There's a crazy thing is that they always rely on these gender reassignment doctors to define the terms. It's really interesting because I got deep, deep, deep into the rabbit hole with this because I was really shocked at how many people were angry at me. There's one doctor who is a board certified endocrinologist who broke it down. Not only is the science behind this crazy, but when you have gender reassignment surgery, one of the big issues with men transitioning into women is bone density. She's like, when you have gender reassignment surgery, you're taking estrogen, which actually preserves bone density. She's like, not only do they have less bone density once they become a woman, they might have more because you're preserving it. You're not going to automatically be just like a woman in a year or so. I don't think surgeons ... I mean, I know too much about it. I don't think it's about doctoring from having spent 1,000 years with my wife's medical education to believe that doctors have the capacity to magically change a man into a woman. No. Maybe it's going to happen one day with CRISPR or something like that when they start using genetic ... literally genetic editing. Before birth, maybe. If you actually edit the chromosomes before birth, but no. No. Once your genes have been defined, once your chromosomes have been defined ... This is fifth grade science, people. It's fifth grade science. What scares the shit out of me is when you hear these stories about people deciding that their child, who's like eight or nine years old ... This is f-ed up beyond belief. It's scary because you can't ... A nine year ... Look, a fucking 17 year old doesn't know. That was the thing about that Ruby Rose girl. She was saying that when she was young, when she was a teenager, she wanted to be a man. She wanted to be transgender. She had gone through that phase, and now she's so happy that she didn't do anything. Right. They say that 80% of kids who experience any sort of gender dysphoria as children grow out of it. Then you have a society that reinforces it, and then in Canada, they're passing laws now that say that if a kid says ... You have a girl, and the girl says, I'm a boy, and she's three, that the government can come into your house and take the kid. Because obviously, if you don't want to humor the kid and get the kid treatment, or surgery, or hormone blockers, then you're obviously doing something wrong to the kid. This is just ... It's insane. First of all, if anyone tried to do that with my kid, I would meet them at the door with a gun. This is the kind of stuff where you're talking legit civil war. When you say that the government can take people's kids from them, because the government knows better than you, how to parent your kids on basic things like, are you a boy or a girl? That's going to get violent pretty quickly. If you send someone to my door with a gun saying, I'm taking your daughter from you, because your daughter says she's a boy at school, and you're not going to take her to a psychiatrist to start her transitioning process? No. No. How did we get so far down this rabbit hole of insanity? This is, again, this is not taking away the personal choice of a 60-year-old man like Bruce Jenner, who decides he wants to be a woman. Do what you want. Free country. Go have at it. Have a good time. But how did we get so crazy that that becomes an option, that people aren't ... They're not paying attention to the massive variables that a child encounters. Psychological variables, stress variables, what's going on in the home, what's happening hormonally, what's happening psychologically, what is happening to you, and how can you decide this is it? You're going to allow this kid to make a lockdown decision to begin gender transition surgery at nine or ten years old. Yeah, you can put hormone blockers in there to an eight-year-old. Yeah. And then they'll show you this girl who's 13, who used to be a boy, and you see her act and talk, and they go, how could you imagine that this isn't a girl? I don't know. I just don't know what happened. I'm going to go with the fact that there's a Y chromosome in every cell of that person's body except, ironically, for some of his sperm cells to tell me that that's probably a boy. And yes, you can block the manifestation of some physical characteristics that does not change the chromosomes. And there are legitimately introsex people. I mean, there are people who legitimately have conditions like Kleinfelter syndrome. These are actual biological things. But if you're telling me any boy can be a girl, no. No. The answer is no. And that's not biologically correct, and you're not doing any sort of service to a child, especially evidenceless. I mean, you're doing no service to a child by humoring what is obviously a mental condition. And a mental condition, by the way, again, linked 40 percent lifetime suicide rate is higher than any other population on planet Earth by a whopping margin. I mean, telling kids that we are going to force you into the... You express when you're five that you think you're the opposite sex, and now at eight we're going to transition you into this, and your suicide rate is exactly the same as somebody who didn't do that, right? Or it's very similar to somebody who didn't do that. And this is somehow supposed to benefit the person? It's just beyond imagination. I mean, I think it's cruelty. Well, it's very strange for sure. And as someone who doesn't experience gender dysphoria, I like to... When someone's got some sort of an issue, whatever it is, whether you call it an issue or a condition or whatever the fuck it is, and I don't have it, I try to be as standoffish. I try to be as objective. I try to be as kind as possible. This is a weird one, though. This is a weird one because it's become some sort of a fad, and any criticism of it whatsoever, even discussion of it, you are labeled as a transphobic piece of shit. Yeah, I think it's only weird, honestly, because it's run into the weird sexual politics that dominates in the country. Because if we were to talk about anorexia, which is a form of body dysphoria, or if we were to talk about... I mean, there actually was something body identity integrity disorder, right? Where people want to lose an arm. We would be saying, well, the problem is in your brain, it's not in your arm. Like chopping off your arm seems a little extreme, but if you want to do that, go ahead. But if you were a kid, and a five-year-old, you wouldn't say, oh, well, this kid's going to suffer with this their entire life. Let's just chop off their arm now. Let's prevent their arm from developing. Like this is not... And to tell the entire society that this is a positive good is a whole other thing. It's one thing to try and treat people who have a disorder humanely. It's another thing to redefine the terms of the entire civilization, as well as biology, in order to fit that. It's valuing the subjective over the objective. Science is objective. Your feelings about who you are is subjective. You can have those feelings. But once you are trying to translate those feelings into the objective standard we almost told by, now you're encroaching on my territory. It's not just you doing what you want to do anymore. You're telling me what I have to do. That's a different thing. Right. I would say that there is this 40% suicide rate amongst transgender people. One of the arguments that I've heard is it's because they're not accepted. Right. I've heard this too, yeah. Yeah. And that if they were accepted and then they felt themselves and they felt loved for their true self, then it would be just like everybody else. And I have seen no evidence to suggest that. If there is a decrease based on treatment, then it's marginal at best. But that dysphoria, is it uniform? I would like to know, is gender dysphoria, is it in a similar percentile as anorexia or what bodybuilders get or what strippers get when they get triple F tits? I don't know. I'd have to look up the anorexic suicide rate. Body dysphoria is a weird thing. It is. I've met people. There's a girl that goes to my yoga class that's anorexic and it's so disturbing. It's so sad. Yeah. It's horrifying. It's horrifying. I'm not saying that we should mistreat people, but if again, you're talking about an entire society being forced to redefine basic biological terminology, then be an adult. Live with this. I'm happy to treat you with ... Listen, I would hire a transgender person, but I'm not going to change what reality is in order to humor you. If you call yourself Napoleon, I'm not going to call you Napoleon or not Napoleon because it's not something I'm up for. Would you take it into consideration though? What if someone was really good at their job and someone else was equally good at their job but not transgender? Would you lean towards the not transgender person because you say, well, the transgender person, they're dealing with a host of psychological issues, obviously? Well, I think that you would have to think about typical aspects of reliability just the same way you would with any other mental disorder. If you knew somebody was manic depressive, which is super common, and you have somebody who's equally qualified who's not manic depressive, you might think, well, that might have an effect on how they do their job. Maybe. I haven't had enough personal experience with transgender people to know whether it would impact a secretarial job or something. Probably not. Probably not. But again, to pretend that like transgenders in the military, this seems to me like a decision that should be made by military people who actually have to determine how much does this impact the job. If you already have a group of people with a 40% suicide rate who have higher levels of instability as a group, not individually as a group, and you're choosing which groups to pick from to be on the front lines in small units living under severe pressure for months at a time, is that something that is that what you're going to go for? Or is that something where you'd have to overcome certain presumptions in order to get there? Yeah, I tweeted something that Kristen Beck wrote the other day. But when the military ban when Trump apparently there was not a real ban. No, it's bullshit. I mean, basically, Trump was trying to distract from the Sessions thing. Is that what it is? Yeah. Two minutes later, he was back to tweeting about Sessions. This is the part about that I didn't like. I actually agree that there is a question as to whether the military should be recruiting transgender people because I think that the military has certainly it creates a bunch of questions, not just questions about who showers with whom, but also questions like, okay, you have a transgender man, does he have to fill the female standards of fitness or the male standards of fitness? Right. These are actual questions. Yeah. How does it work with troop cohesion? You have a group of men and they have a man who's technically a man, but he's dead. You treat him as a woman? Does he have to carry the same amount of stuff as the guy? How does that work exactly? Does the cost of gender transition surgery and hormones and psychologists, does that come into play at all here? Would you recruit from the anorexic community for the military? These are real questions. But that said, that's why they commissioned a study from General Mattis at Department of Defense. He was going to look into all of this and then give a report in six months. Trump just tweeted it out there. I agree that I think that Trump's general, his general attitude on it is probably correct in terms of what the military is there doing, what it's not there to do. But what I don't agree with is how he did it at all because it's disrespectful to the people in the military who are transgender. I mean, like, I wouldn't want to find out in a tweet. I don't want a better rationale than two tweets and then we're back to, and then we're back to, you know, like, look, they're doing more than I am. I mean, they're serving the military. I didn't serve in the military. It seems like it would be pretty hypocritical of me to say, well, it's perfectly respectful to say in two tweets, you're out because that's the way it is without any sort of supporting argumentation. And he didn't actually implement a policy. He didn't give the policy to the Defense Department so they could even implement it. The Pentagon says they're not implementing it because they don't have a policy. So it's a PR thing. This is a weird PR thing, but it really stirred up people in the comment section. Which I think it's designed to do, right? I'm sure. Well, either that or he just felt like tweeting. I think that's what it was. I mean, he wanted to shift the conversation. And it was, the funniest thing about that is that he did it in two tweets. And the first half of the tweet was, in consultation with my generals and my military experts, we have decided that we will no longer accept ellipses. Ten minute gap, transgender people in the military. So there was a story, a buzzfeed, that was kind of funny. They went and interviewed a bunch of people in the Pentagon. And a bunch of the people in the Pentagon were like, during that ten minute gap, I didn't know whether we were going to nuclear war or what, right? Because that first tweet was like, we will no longer accept it. No, we couldn't accept North Korea's statehood. You know, missile test programs. Right. Wow. This, again, is evidence, and I think it's an example of even if I think the policy is good, good policy done the wrong way is actually counterproductive for the policies that I want to see done. Like, I want it laid out by Mattis. I want it laid out by Defense Department. I want all the reasons laid out so we can have a good discussion over it. I don't really want just like thought vomit on Twitter. That's just not, I don't think it's effective. Well, it also seems that this issue is such a hot issue. And it's also an issue that you're not really allowed to have an opinion on other than the standard opinion of this is always a woman trapped in a man's body. And this is the way it is. And by the way, this is totally healthy. This Descartian notion that it's like a man that it's like the soul in the machine. And that there's a woman deep down for 40 years who had three children with a man's penis and now is now is escaping as a Ghostbusters. Like, again, just have you seen the man in England? Was it in England? No. It was a man that identifies as a six year old girl. And so they turned him into a six year old girl. So there's this clip. Yeah, exactly. So there's that clip of me that's going around the internet a fair bit where I'm talking to a college girl about this and she's saying like men are men can be women and women can be men. And I said, well, how old are you? I love that clip. I mean, come on. Why aren't you 60? Why aren't you 60? Yeah. And she's like baffled like what? And then it finally hits her and it's like, well, you know, yeah. So it's I think this is what's kind of frightening about the age we live in is that we can't even come up with common definitions of basic things. How are we supposed to have conversations with each other if you can't decide what a man is or what a woman is or or whether a scientific fact ought to be relevant or not? Yeah, like like at least we could decide what was a scientific fact or not before. And now it's like the subjective has just eaten everything. If I don't think it's a scientific fact, it's no longer a scientific fact. And then the parameters of the argument has become about freedom, the freedom to be your authentic self versus biology. And right. And again, be be be your authentic self. Don't give a shit to do whatever you want. Like, you know, more power to you. But it is no longer about your freedom to be your authentic self when you're talking about either legislation that impacts how I run my business or how I raise my child. Or you're suggesting that it is my duty to humor your authentic self. Like I think there are a lot of people who do stupid crap their entire lives. It's not my job to humor their authentic self. I mean, I'm pro drug legalization, but I've never done drugs and I think that drugs are stupid. You know, don't tell me that I have to like cheer when somebody smokes a joint like do what you want, but don't tell me that I have to redefine what I think is good and bad behavior. Like that's silly. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. And the other thing that it became this weird political hot point where we're talking about bathrooms. Yeah. And then it become like the number one topic. Because it was easy for people to sort of boil the argument into that, I think. Right. Of course. Like this, what about my children? My children are going to the bathroom and a man with a dress is going to come in and he's going to claim that he's identifying as a woman. And it got to the point where so many people were upset about it that people were boycotting South Carolina. Remember that? Oh, yeah. And this one I thought was amazing was the NCAA saying they were going to remove the final four from North Carolina because they passed the bathroom bill right in North Carolina. And I asked online, okay, so when are you going to abolish the separate male and female divisions of the NCAA? Like I mean, you've said that we can't have separate male and female bathrooms where biological males play and, you know, biological males go to one bathroom and biological females go to another. So why do you have separate divisions? Why do you have an NCAA women's division and an NCAA men's division? Yeah. Where does this go? I mean, eventually. How does this boil down? I mean, eventually it goes to one place or another. Like either we just say, this is a step too far. Give me a break. You know, science says no. Or we say anyone can be anything at any time. A man is a woman and a woman is a man. And, you know, it's in just pick. Have you ever seen any of the videos of people that are gender fluid? I have seen those videos. Those videos are fascinating. Like they wake up one day and they're a woman and the next day they're a man. And there was a guy on NPR, on Radiolab, on a podcast, who transitions at times of stress. Makes perfect sense to me. In the middle of having a conversation, I just switched. I'm Paul now. I'm a man now. When he's more stressed, does he switch into a woman? Because that'd be really sexist, right? I mean, I think that like if he was stressed at work and he switched into a woman and started crying, that seems kind of sexist to me. That's implying that women are the people who cry at work. So that is sexist. Also this raises a bunch of other weird questions. Like, okay, if you're like, there's been this, again, you want to talk about weird, there's been this weird push in parts of the trans community to suggest that a male who doesn't want to have sex with a biological male who says he's a female is now a sexist against women. Transphobe. Is a transphobe, right? You're a bad person if you're a man who doesn't want to have sex with a man, a biological man. And it doesn't make you gay to do that, right? If you have sex with a biological man who says he's a woman, that's straight sex. But if you were to have sex with a biological woman who says she's a man, you're gay. Yeah. Kind of weird. It's definitely weird, but I have seen the arguments and the blog posts and the tweets about men who discriminate against trans women who do not want to date trans women. And people keep saying, well, it's culturally defined. It's like, no, that's called evolution. Well, you have a baby together. Correct. Correct. It turns out that evolution wants men to have sex with women. Like I'm sorry to break it to everybody, but evolution relies on human reproduction. Okay. If you put that thing in the wrong place, it ain't going to reproduce. Like that's just, sorry. I mean, I don't know why I have to keep apologizing for science. And then they say that my party is the party of non-science. Like what? Like you're the ones who say that two minutes before my baby is born, it's not a baby and a man can be a woman, but I'm anti-science. I'm just, I'm wildly confused by this. Well, the whole thing is wildly confusing. But it's just, it's such a strange subject. It's such a strange subject that's been brought to the forefront. I think it's about more the moral posturing than it is about people who actually think this is a major issue. I think you're absolutely right. And I think people love to be virtuous. They love to be on that side. They love to virtue signal. How dare you? Yeah. It is the how dare you? It's the how dare you with dicks or lack of fake dicks, but they don't really have a lot of fake dicks. They don't really go that far. They just sort of take testosterone and see what's up. It's just, it's a weird facet of our society today that is unexpected. I mean, you go back 20, 30 years and it was an oddity. And even during the Renee Richards thing, it was more of an oddity than anything. And people just sort of accepted it. This is why I say I think that it's, I think that a lot of people who are virtue signaling are still treating it as an oddity. They just won't admit that. I think that they're watching it because it's a circus to them. And I think that's actually cruel. I don't think that you should put people who suffer from mental illness on the cover of magazines. I think that that's bad strategy.