Joe Rogan and Friends Discuss the Rise and Fall of Ben Askren

So 2019, what did we do to Ben Askren? That was you and me, bro. We had a big part of that. I'm still a fan. I'm a huge fan. That's my quarter bet. I'm a huge fan, but three fights in the UFC. It's a tough go. Two things happen. One, big time off of competing. Two, you know, competing in one FC against, it's not the same level of competition, I don't believe, as even he fought in Bellator. Not even close. And then three, you know, the guy's got a fucked up hip. He's also older though. People forget, like, you know, when Ben got to the UFC, he was older. Dude, he had a lot of fights. He was older. They didn't get him when he's a young spring chicken. His hip thing's not a new thing. No, man. With all due respect. Please, please don't disrespect him. With all due respect. With all due respect. As great a grappler as he is, he's simply not, he's not a good striker, and he's not close to a striker that you need to be in the UFC. He just isn't. Maybe I'm blind, but if you're going to tell me that Ben Asgren is a... No one's going to argue this, Brian. Right. No, no one's arguing. So you can't be in the UFC without being that low on it. No, but he's such a good grappler that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It didn't matter until he, yeah. He didn't lose the Damien mind because of his striking. True. He didn't lose, he was losing. But he was losing. Mass of a doll, that was some crazy shit. Who saw that coming? Whatever happened with the Robbie Lawler fight, I believe, and whatever it was, whether he tapped or he didn't tap, I believe there are guys in the UFC like that, a lot of guys like that, that would have done the same thing to him and would not have gotten caught in that thing. I mean, I don't know, but I mean, I... Ben's grappling was on such a high level, that's why we wanted to see it. You're right, you're right. His striking was subpar for sure. I'm just saying, but his grappling is so good that it doesn't matter. That's why he was there. He was there because he's a specialist. I mean, his grappling's off the charts. And Robbie Lawler, there's no argument whether or not Robbie Lawler tapped. He definitely didn't tap. They just thought he might have been out there. They threw under the wolves, dude. Think about the guys they threw. Robbie Lawler, a lot of them. He was saying something about Khabib, though. Khabib's so formidable because of his grappling and what he's able to do. But Khabib didn't take any time off like that. Taking the two years off that Askward took off and being 36. People forget he was older, but also when you say throw under the wolves, it's also like you were a champion from one champion. Like, you were a former world champion. So when he came over, the UFC ain't playing games. Look at Eddie Alvarez. He had a tough goal. Look at Justin Gaethje. He was 0-2. You want to come over, you're a world champion, you're getting some dogs, man. I think anything could happen. It just shows you that if you're not fighting the UFC, and I know Scott Coaches, I love Scott Coaches, if you're not fighting the UFC, it ain't shit, man. Here's where I disagree. Douglas Lima. I think Douglas Lima might be right up there with everybody else at 170. At 170? He might be one of the best in the world. He might be able to knock out all of them. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. He might lose. Listen to me. He might lose. He might lose, but he might knock them out. No, you're out of your mind, man. Listen, Lima is world class. He's right up there. When I watch him fight, when I watch him fight Michael Van Em Page, when I watch him fight... You're fighting McDonald? Yeah, Semtex, when he fought Paul Daley. Dude, he is... Think about the guy who just list off. ...as legit as it comes. Now go through Kamaro, or go through Colby's, or go through Woodley's, or Darren Till's past five opponents. That's true. You're not fighting the best day in, day out. You're just fighting one guy who's really good, and then you got two up. He's beating the best in front of him, lost to Rory in a very close fight, and then beat him in the rematch. But what I'm seeing from him is world class skills and ridiculous knockout power. He may or may not be able to beat those guys. The thing is, you never know, but he's definitely in the conversation. For me, when I look at ability, when I look at what he can accomplish, even though he's fighting... He's a huge seven here. He's a big motherfucker, man. He's got some serious power when he KO'd Koroshkov, when he KO'd Michael Vennon Page. I'm like, he's a monster. He could KO anyone. He's a monster. And I love that, Lima, I had so much respect for him. But to me, until you're in UFC and you're in that grind... Until you're in UFC. You know what? It's true that you can't say he's the best. That's true. But you can't say he's not world class. I think that guy's world class. I'm not saying he's not world class, but I can't say, oh, he would beat the UFC's champ, or he would be a top five. You can't say it in that division. That division's too crazy. You can't say it in any division. Mazudal could beat any 170 pounder alive. On any given night, he can light up any 170 pounder. How do you think him and Usman look out? So could Usman. You know, these guys, you gotta realize, humans in fighting are never a flat board. It's always just like a little wibbly, a wobbly, an ankles fucked up, I got a headache, I'm having a hard time, wake up, my girlfriend's fucking with me, I'm getting over the flu. They're never exactly at the same level in every fight. So there are guys that are at a level where you catch them when you're up and they're down and you win, or they're up and you're down and they win. That's real, man.