Jim Norton and Joe Rogan Debate Bob Lazar's Story

How often do you guys do it? Once a week? Twice a week. Twice a week. I see Matt every Monday and Wednesday. Really? And you meet in the city at a studio or something? Meet in the city in a studio and they uh... We had a lot of fighters on. Usually they're not in the studio. A lot of times they're Skyping in. That sucks. I prefer in studio. Oh, every time. I don't like... I've only done a couple of Skypes. Two actually. Snowden. Snowden and John Anthony West, who is one of my favorite guests ever. He's an Egyptologist who has this incredible understanding of Egypt and the hieroglyphs. He had this great DVD series called Magical Egypt. He just passed recently. Amazing guy. But him, just because he was sick and he couldn't make it in here. And then Snowden obviously because he's on the moon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wherever he is he can't come. That was weird. That was weird. It's weird to do... I don't like the Skype interviews. I prefer them to the phone though. Because guys would call on their way to practice. Like you know what I mean? We'd have cowboy on the phone. They'd be just driving going to do something and you hear the wind and you couldn't get anything done. Well the weird thing about the Snowden one too, it wasn't just that it was remote. It was also like what we're talking about. Like who he is and what his situation is. He's trapped in Russia, allegedly. I mean he might be in Cleveland, who the fuck knows where he is. But that he's, you know, got this situation where he's never going to really be able to come back to the United States. Unless they, you know, work out some sort of a deal. And even then he's not going to believe them. You know what I mean? I wouldn't believe them. I probably wouldn't either. Didn't he say no about UFOs though? Didn't you ask him when he said that he hadn't seen evidence? He hadn't seen evidence. But how much did he look into it? How much was available to him? And you know, where is that kind of evidence? If there is any of that stuff, I don't know. Maybe on a closed system too? I don't want to not believe in UFOs. I resist it. I resist it hard. I'm not rational about it. I've been an uptick in UFO stuff recently. Yeah, I wonder why. I wonder what that is. Space Force. You know what I think honestly it is? When the New York Times had that thing where they were talking about all the different reported UFO sightings that are reputable from people like David Fraver and, you know, these Air Force guys that are like otherwise rock solid individuals who talk about their experiences. But my problem with it, my legitimate problem with me as a human being is I want it to be real. So when people don't think it's real, like, oh, that's all bullshit. I'm like, no, it's real. Like, I'm not objective. I'm biased. Like legitimately biased. And I know it. And I'm like, come on, man. Why are you so biased about this? It's a weird one. Like, I want it to be real so much. Like talking to Bob Lazar. Like, God, I hope he's telling the truth. I'm sure this was a theory because it's no way to be proven. But I saw someone online postulate that the uptick in alien stuff could be like us coming from the future. I've heard that too, that the idea is that what the grays are. And this is something I've personally thought, I think independently, was that if you look at human beings and you look at, say, a gorilla, right? You look at a gorilla with this big hairy fucking animal thing, and then you slowly turn that into, I guess we didn't really come from gorillas. We came from chimps. But chimps, you know, monkeys, lower hominids, Australia pithicus, you know, and then, you know, ancient man, right? And then all these different versions of what we are until we become right now, Homo sapiens 2020. Well, what are we, how do we look different? Well, unless you're someone who works out a lot, you're losing a lot of your musculature. You're not as dense. You're not as hairy. You know, when you see like that fucking killer wrestler from Russia, remember when we showed videos of that dude? God damn it. I'm trying to remember his name. Rustam. Yeah. Rustam. Fuck. Just it. Hold on. Chiev. Rustam Chiev. He's this fucking tank of a man that's covered in hair, but he looks like someone from the past. You know, when he's throwing people around with his fucking giant hairy back and hair over his chest and arms, you know, this is that guy. But that almost, he almost looks like a normal human there. But there's some videos of him when he's grappling. Like that one right there, where he's got the double flex, the red one, right above that. Yeah. Like, look how hairy that motherfucker is. That guy's that's from another time. Yeah, that is from another time. I mean, that guy, you could comb his chest hair. We were talking about aliens. And I was saying, if you look at people like that, like real hairy, fucking testosterone filled savages, like this guy was an elite wrestler. He's a killer grappler. And then you look at aliens. Well, if you look at chimps to that guy, to aliens, what's happening? Well, what's happening is we're getting less hairy and we're getting smaller and weaker, right? We're getting more and more like what an alien looks like. And aliens have no genitals. They have no mouths. They're just a smooth, skinny thing with his big head and these big weird eyes. Like when we get rid of the need, if we evolve past the need for physical strength, if we evolve past the need for, you know, sex. If sex is the note, we don't reproduce any longer through just normal biological male, female sex. If they've, you know, who knows a million years from now, a hundred thousand years now, we might decide that one of the biggest problems that faces human beings on earth is our emotions, our desire for sex, biology, all of our animal instincts that we still hold on to. And we could evolve past those just like we're so much different than chimps are. We're so much different than we used to be when we were lower hominids. We've evolved. We evolved to the point where we're communicating with words. We're using phones. We fly in planes. We have technology, but also our bodies are softer and our bodies are less, they're less, they're not as strong. They're not as animalistic and explosive. And if it continues along that path, especially aided by technology when we don't have any need, especially if you have these big ass giant brains. And we can use telepathy to communicate. We can communicate through some other way, maybe even electronically enhanced, maybe, you know, something in their brain. But when you look at an alien with the big head and the little tiny body, that's what a person is probably going to become. Our heads are way bigger. Our brains are bigger than other hominids and other primates. Our bodies are softer and weaker. And if you just keep going with that, that's what happens. But do they have no genitals, though? Or is this something that at least the phone or the other people say they are, are they just wearing something that hides their genitals? Like, I don't know if they have no genitals. I mean, I'm like pushing hard for it. It also could be no genitals, but it also could be those aren't even biological things anymore. It could be that human beings become some sort of cybernetic, some sort of cyborg. If you think about body parts, right, like if we start replacing body parts, like I met a gentleman the other day, I did this benefit. Pull up the guy. What is the guy's name? The Australian gentleman who was a soldier who lost both his arm and his leg in a shark attack. I did a benefit the other day with him for the Australian wild. He's got a carbon fiber arm and a carbon fiber leg. It's crazy. Shakes your hand, like grips it with his carbon fiber hand. And, you know, right now you can tell the difference between his carbon fiber hand, this electronic hand and his other hand. But maybe a hundred years from now you won't be able to. And maybe in the future it's better to have one of these artificial bodies than it is to have a biological body that can break and get all fucked up and you feel pain. We're replacing things all the time. We're replacing body parts all the time with operations and we use organic substitutes. Yes, that's the man. Shout out to Paul. Yeah, we did this Australian benefit with Jim Jeffries and Monty Franklin and Whitney Cummings the other night for the Australian wildfire, for wildlife relief. There was a billion animals in that fire. A billion. It's crazy. Anyway, in the future maybe they'll get to the point where they'll have limbs that are better than the limbs we have. Like, what are you doing with these biological limbs? Jimmy, upgrade. In case of a fucking alien body. I want to believe, dude. I saw the Lazar documentary. You had him in. I enjoyed it. I didn't see the whole interview. But what I saw, I liked a lot. There's always that one place with conspiracy that there's always a gap I cannot cross. And for me it's the degrees. I just can't get beyond the degrees being gone. The two degrees. I can't get beyond it. And I want to, I would much rather believe in UFOs than not believe in them. Well, he's clearly educated. And he says he worked for Los Alamos Labs and they sent him to MIT to work on top secret projects. There's clear evidence that he worked at Los Alamos Labs. Ashley, do me a favor. Go to Jeremy's, I think it's on his Instagram page. He has this thing, it might be on his Twitter, he has this thing where he has George Knapp explain all the different things he went through to prove that Bob Lazar was legit. One of them being that he definitely worked at Los Alamos. He was even in the employee registry, even though they said he didn't. Yeah, play that and give me some volume. The central question for me about Bob was, did he work at Los Alamos lab? If he worked there on classified projects, it is plausible that he could work at area 51 at Papoose Lake on other stuff. Did he work there? I can tell you flat out he did. 100% certain that he did. I found his name in the phone book. I found his name in an article in the Los Alamos newspaper. I talked to people who were there and finally Bob took me there. He took me into the lab, waved at the security guys. We brought a camera along. This guy was familiar. It was like a rabbit running through a burrow that he had traveled every day. And he's waving at security guys and walking into all these buildings. He knew his way around. He'd been there before, they knew him. They let him in, they let me in. I interviewed people he worked with. They said he was there. We proved it. And yet the paper trail ends at a certain point. We don't have any records. We can't find anything. They'd already told me they had the records. As soon as I think I'm getting close, they yanked the rug out from under me. He took lie detector tests. He passed all of them. I know that doesn't mean anything. But look, we're talking about the 1980s. They get away with a lot back then in terms of erasing your history. His education is undeniable in terms of what he knows. He's a brilliant guy. When you talk to him, he's not faking anything. He doesn't have any holes in his understanding of physics. I don't know if he's telling the truth. But again, I'm not objective. I'm biased. I want to believe. I want to believe as well. I can't get beyond the school things. To me that says he's not being truthful. The MIT thing, I'll tell you this, he told me that they sent him from Los Alamos Labs to there to work on something. And I'll tell you what it is off air. But I told him I wouldn't talk about it during the podcast because you're going to hear when I tell you you're going to go, holy fuck. And it'll make a little more sense. It's, I don't know. You know, it's again, I'm a fucking loser. I want it to be real. No, but it can be real. I just. But I mean, I want it to be. So I'm not looking at it. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not invested. I'm not. I mean, I'm not invested anymore. Like even the the the three naval videos, I'm like whenever a pilot see something that tick tack video. But now that there's something that they're saying that's making me go, that might be manmade because they're saying something about if we were to reveal this, it would compromise national security. No, no. They could reveal all the files they have on these UFO incidents. It would compromise national security, first of all, because it will compromise. There if they reveal how they know that something is blocking radar, that object, whatever it was, was actively jamming radar. I had Commander Fraver, the guy who filmed that thing, the guy who was there and who reported that thing. I had him here. He said that thing went from 60,000 feet down to 200 in less than a second. There's nothing that we have. No, no, no. He said that the thing moves so fast. It made this this travel in this radar. You know, radar is a blip, right? It's like, Bip, Bip, Bip. In between one blip to another, it had moved in a preposterous speed. You couldn't even track it. It was moving so fast. They don't know if it did it in less than a second or if it did it in one second, but whatever it was, the amount of distance that it traveled is impossible. What happened? Did they have the laws of physics as we understand? Could they see it? Could they see it with the naked eye as well? Yes, they can see it with the naked eye. So this is under the water? Yes. You can see the video. You can see the thing on video. You can see the thing on video move off. You can see that it's actively jamming radar. You can see that they're trying to track it and stay with it, but it's moving too fast. See, there's something they said recently that made me think, oh, that might be man-made. And I forget it was something to do with compromising national security. Whatever the quote was, I was like, that sounds like something that's man-made and they're worried they'll compromise something that they've created. I know what you're saying, but here's the thing. Like, whatever it is, someone made it, okay? If it's not man, then it's something from another planet. Maybe it is man-made. Maybe it is some project that the government has. But whatever it is, it's something that moves at an insane speed that we're not capable of understanding in terms of what the average person who understands propulsion and engines and combustion. All those people. Well, when pilots say stuff, I listen to it because they understand those things. Like, for me, I don't know how things are supposed to move, but they do. So when they're confused by something, that's what got me interested was when the Times did the article on those. So I really started going, like, I started, you know, watching and reading, and I'm like, I want to believe. I just can't find anything that doesn't have a gap that I can't cross. Well, you should talk to Fraver. He's a fucking rock-solid guy. It's very compelling when you talk to him in person because he doesn't want to have anything to do with publicity. He's not interested at all. He wanted to tell his story because he felt like they're not being honest about it. And that people really should know that there's some things that we don't understand. And that these guys that are down in San Diego that were at this Air Force base, they were seeing these things, like, fairly recently before his experience. They had seen one in the last couple weeks, I think it was. And then they find them on the East Coast, too. Same thing. And they move in the same way that Bob Lazard described these things that he worked on, Area S-4. The same way. Where there's something called Element 115 that Bob Lazard described in the late 80s, early 90s. They didn't even know it was real until 2013. He was describing it long before it was ever proven to be an actionable thing. Long before they ever created it with a particle accelerator. You know what he reminded me of? This was my, and again, I'm basing this only on opinion. I have no facts for this. When I listened to him, my first thought was, after these things that don't line up, oh, he took somebody's story. What he's saying is somehow true, but he's telling somebody else's story. And that may be a total lie, but that's just what my head told me, was because he knows so much, and yet, how do they make your education disappear? Not hard. Not hard in the 1980s. People that went to school with him have talked about it. That's what I want to hear from. People who went to school with him. They have records of people that went to school with them who talked about it. That's what I want to hear from. Also, they have records of people that work with him at Los Alamos Labs. They've talked about it. Have they talked publicly? Because that's what I haven't heard. They've talked to George Knapp. I know they are. I want to hear who these people are. Not in a quiz, but I want it to be true. I want people to go out and go, yeah, he was in my fucking class. Well, he even talked about it on the podcast, where he went back and found these guys that he worked at the lab with. He worked at Los Alamos Lab, for sure, and he worked on top secret nuclear projects. And he worked in propulsion. And that's one of the reasons why they sent him to this area S-4, because he put a jet engine in a Honda in the 1980s. And, you know, the guy is a fucking super genius. Nice look, yeah. And so when he did this, they were like, well, this guy has a very intense understanding of combustion engines and propulsion and all these different things that he's creating. And so they're like, let's see if this guy can crack this crazy nut. And so they were just bringing scientists to try to get a different perspective on these crafts. And the one that he was working on, or one of them that he's working on, they said that they had found in an archaeological dig. That's where it gets really crazy. Like they found this thing. What he was working on? They think, what he read was that what the government was telling them when they were working there, when they were briefing him, was that human beings are the product of science projects, that human beings were created when many, many thousands of years ago, hundreds, whatever, millions of years ago, however long it was. Aliens came down here and did experiments with lower hominids. They did experiments with primates and added their DNA and manipulated the DNA to create human beings. I have a Bob Lazar question. And it's not that I don't know enough about it to convince you otherwise, but I just don't. But I'm kind of hoping you can convince me. If they made the school records disappear, why do they leave the records that we just saw from that place? They didn't know they were there. That somebody had a copy of the registry for that place. Someone who worked there during the same time he did had a copy of the registry. They didn't just eliminate his social security number. They eliminated a lot of shit. Dude, in the 1980s, they can make you effectively disappear. Yeah, I'm sure they can. I mean, in the 80s, the paper trails were a little bit different. Yeah. But it just – I can't get beyond the two degrees. And again, I want to – I'm sure I've heard him interviewed. He's a very compelling guy. That's a hard part. The two degrees are not hard. That's not hard to get past. That's not hard to eliminate. What's hard is understanding all the things he understands when it comes to science without an education, the way he talks about it. Have you ever seen the videos where he's describing it in the late 80s? Yeah. It's exactly the same as he describes it now. Exactly the same. No variation whatsoever. Well, that's kind of like – If you tell a story 40 years ago and then I ask you again today to tell me that same story, most bullshitters are going to have some holes in that story and change it. It doesn't mean he's telling the truth, but he's been insanely consistent. I would almost think too that a lot of times truth tellers have things change. That's why eyewitness testimony is so unreliable because even a truth teller will make mistakes over time. If it's a story that I've created, I think I'm less likely to forget details if I've created it because I have a beginning, middle, and end to it. Right, but it's very complicated what he's saying. What he's saying is very complicated in the descriptions of them, descriptions of these crafts and the way the propulsion system works and the fact that it uses this incredibly dense element that doesn't even exist on Earth in 1989 or whatever it was, but now they've found actually is a real thing. That element 115, people are saying that's science fiction. You're making things up. But now that they have created it in particle accelerators, they're like, oh, okay, this is a real thing. Now, what if there's a planet that has a completely different atmosphere, a completely different relationship with its star, and element 115 is common? They find things in asteroids all the time that are very, very rare on Earth but very common in space. It's one of the ways that they know whether or not we've been impacted. One of the ways that they know that the Yucatan was hit with this gigantic asteroid that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago is a layer of iridium at 65 million years. Iridium is very, very rare on Earth but very common in space. And this layer of it, this dense layer at 65 million years ago shows that that's when it was hit, that this giant chunk of space rock slammed into the Earth and killed everything. I know. I like the fact that you're skeptical. I'm very skeptical. I wish I was more. And I don't want to be because I really want to believe it because it also gives us a hope that we have some kind of a possible immortality somewhere. Believe me, I fucking like Ray Carr as well as much as anybody does. He gives us all hope. But I just, I keep getting to a sticking point. Every single time there's something I can't get beyond when it comes to that conspiracy. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. It's, look, I thought it was all horseshit for a long time. I was, I was like, I was mocking it all for a long time. And then Jeremy Corbell's documentary really flipped the switch with me and was like, God damn it, is this real? And then getting to know Jeremy and talking to him and then getting to know Bob, having dinner with Bob and then getting Bob to come here and sit down. It was very hard to get him to come in. Yeah. Very hard. Very hard. He was super nervous. He was getting migraines. He didn't want the, he didn't want the scrutiny. And then meanwhile, while he's doing Jeremy's documentary, they fucking raid his business. They raid his business and go through all this stuff. The FBI did. They caught it all on video. It's all a part, like this is not just a regular guy. They're going through all of his, his, his data. They're going through his, all of his emails. They confiscated his computers. They didn't find anything. He's, he's free and clear, but they were looking for element 115, he thinks, because he had some apparently. And they had done some tests and there's video of it with George Knapp where they've got like, they've, they've got fog. They're usually some sort of a fog machine and they're showing how this gives off a certain, gives off a certain field that makes it almost impossible to grab and touch. And this fog is rejected by this field. And what they're saying about that element is, and I'm going to butcher this. I don't really understand the science, but this, this gravity intensifier, this gravity multiplier, whatever the fuck it is, gravity projection thing with that 115, it distorts gravity. And that's how these things are able to move through these insane through insane speeds. And the way he described it is that it's like, if you have like a real cushy mattress, a real soft mattress, and you put a massive bowling ball in the center of the mattress, everything would just go zoom. And bend around the bowling ball. Well, that's what element 115 with that craft and that propulsion system does to space time. It bends gravity. If you bend space, I don't know the answer to this. I always watch. I've heard of that. Doesn't everything else get fucked up? Like if you're bending space time, does everything else just kind of come closer together? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know. Maybe it just does it with whatever's around it. And maybe we don't understand what, you know, how space, we know that gravity bends things, bends light. That's why, you know, when you're looking at the sun, you can actually see things. They can see things that are actually behind the sun because it wore the massive gravity of the sun because it's so enormous. It actually manipulates light. It bends it so you can see things that are actually behind it. I want to know, like, have you had Neil deGrasse Tyson on? Bunch of times. Yeah, he's fascinating and a skeptic. And he's an interesting skeptic because he may, I mean, he can base it in what he knows or believes scientifically. Right. But, you know, Guy Troy on our show went at it with him, you know. Who went on it? Troy. Oh, who's Troy? He's our fucking he's a DJ and he's our fucking like a guy who works our computers. Wait, wait, wait. Troy went at it with Neil deGrasse Tyson. Oh, yeah. About what? Because he thinks he's a full of shit government agent and hiding UFOs. No, it was great, though. It was a fun video. But Troy thinks that Neil is an agent, an agent, not an agent, but I mean like an agent as in as in representing the point of view of the government. Is he one of those flat earth guys? No, not at all. He thinks that there's UFOs. There's a lot of things we're not being told. But it was a great video. But if they're not being told, do you think that they tell astronomers and astrophysicists, do you think they tell guys like Neil deGrasse Tyson? Like, why would they pull him aside? Hey, hey, guy who works at the Hayden Planetarium, we're going to we're going to give you secrets. And we definitely want to make sure you don't tell them to people on the Opie and Anthony show. Yeah. Troy thinks that he he knows. Really? Yeah. Come on. No, it's legit. He really does. OK. All right. Troy. But he's always going back and forth. Was it entertaining for Neil or did he get weird? He was OK with it.