China's Economic Influence Over American Movies and Sports

When you're talking about China and the NBA and Hollywood movies, a lot of people think of those things, the interactions that Hollywood has and the NBA has with China as being insidious. They don't think it's a good thing at all that China has that kind of an influence. And they also think it's embarrassing. A lot of people think that it's embarrassing for the NBA to when the negative tweets, when they're in support of Hong Kong and then all of a sudden there was some pushback and the NBA was removed from viewership in China and there was a lot of sponsorships being pulled and it became a giant issue. And then all of a sudden you saw the NBA kind of backtrack and kind of cow-tow and a lot of people found that to be pretty disgusting. We don't want the United States to ever be a country that's doing that to China, right? If China has a bunch of, I don't know what they're really into over there, ping pong players? What's their primary sport? I don't know. They have a lot of basketball over there. Basketball, they like basketball. So imagine if Chinese basketball becomes super popular in the United States and then the Chinese basketball players in the United States start talking shit about how Apple uses slave labor. And we go, hey, hey, watch your fucking mouth, bro. We won't pay for your Chinese basketball anymore. And then all of a sudden China backs off. We would think of that as being pretty gross by the United States of ignoring some human rights violations or trying to whitewash them and trying to economically attack another country. So saying that it's a positive that China has all these people and using as an example the fact they strong arm Hollywood and they strong arm the NBA, a lot of people think that's moving in the wrong direction, me included. I don't want to. Well, no, I don't think it's positive. I'm saying we need to be in a position to level the playing field. But is that leveling the playing field or will we just look, we're, the corporations have a giant problem with infinite growth, right? This is a thing that seems completely totally preposterous, but it's the norm and the standard in the business world. You want your growth to increase every year, no matter what. And God knows where that goes. I'm not a mathematician or an economist, but if you, you extrapolate and keep going with that, it leads to preposterous outcomes, right? That's what people would be worried about 10 fold if there's a billion people here. They'd be like, oh my God, would be even more ruthless and more cutthroat and more like maybe more competitive with the rest of the world. But in what way? Well, so here, let's talk about the China thing, right? So the NBA is under China's thumb because they need access to that market. Do they though? Hollywood, well, they think they do. Aren't they rich as fuck? So we could say, right, maybe we need to have a rule that says like, well, you know, you can't let the Chinese censor your shit, right? But the relative size of the markets is going to matter, right? So we're on Spotify here, right? So that's a Swedish company, I think. So you know, they- They make great meatballs out here. Absolutely. It's a lovely country, right? A small country. So Sweden's a little country, right? All their companies, you know, you're talking Volvo, Scania, Spotify, they're dependent on a global marketplace. They need access. If China is the biggest market in the world, ultimately they're going to find themselves playing by China's rules. If America stays the biggest market in the world, then we can play by our rules. And not that we should use the way China does, right? We shouldn't say like, no, nobody can say bad stuff about America. America, we've got a great tradition of free speech here, despite some tensions. It's a world difference from China. And we carry so many other countries, smaller countries from Europe, Canada, Australia, on our backs in that regard as creating a sort of cornerstone of openness as a leading market in the world. That's how it's been for so long that people don't even think about it. But if we go into a world where China's the number one economy, where that's the number one market, where that's what every company cares most about China's rules, then we're going to be in trouble. We're going to be in trouble here. The Swedes are going to be in trouble. And I don't think that's a world we should look forward to. I mean, I started talking about China is trying to use their market power to sort of censor Americans. And nobody in America thinks that's good, right? Nobody is like, yeah, I think it's great that Marvel had to take a Tibetan character out of Dr. Strange. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Like, it's not the biggest deal in the world. It is kind of a big deal though. But it's BS. Like, what is that, right? And it puts in perspective what our disagreements actually amount to, that when you compare us to China, this is golf, right? And don't we want to stay, number one, don't we want to have the biggest market, the biggest economy? So you think that it's ever possible though to, if we got big enough, we could ignore the influence of China? Do you think they would put that money aside? Because China is always going to be big. Well, I don't think you ignore it, but you are able to have the upper hand. Do you really think that we could ever get to a point where Marvel would say, you know what, fuck China, we're putting a Tibetan guy in there. It's supposed to be Tibetan. Well, you're in a place where you can say to them you've got to. We don't want to have to make it a white woman. Yeah. With a bald head. Let's make it a Tibetan guy like it is in the comic book. I think in the comic book it's a guy, right? I think so, yeah. Well, either way it's Tibetan. It's definitely Tibetan, the ancient one. Yeah. I don't think it's a woman either. I think they went full diversity. Maybe it's a good move, going with a bald lady and people will say less shit than if you go with a white man. I think that that's right. You gender bend it. So then it's like, well, maybe you shouldn't criticize that because it's good. But it's like, no, we know what actually is motivating this. It's gross. And it sucks. But do you think we could ever get to a point where China wouldn't have an influence? Because China is still going to be a billion people in a huge market. They're big. But I think we can be number one. I mean, there's beyond growth. I think that we have to be more forceful, government-wise, in how we treat our own company's willingness to cater into that. I think that we need to put some social pressure, if nothing else, on Hollywood to not do that kind of thing. But see, they did hedge their bets by making it a woman. It was very clever. Sure. It's a clever little way of being a bitch. Do you remember when the World Health Organization, there was a spokesperson for the World Health Organization being interviewed by this woman and she kept asking them about Taiwan. And he hung up the phone, hung up the camera. And then when he came back on, she was like, so we were talking about Taiwan. It's like, well, China's done an amazing job. And I think we've kind of covered that. And she's like, well, and everybody's like, look at this. He won't even mention Taiwan because Taiwan is not a recognized entity by the People's Republic of China or whatever the fuck they call themselves. That's the type of... I mean, the WHO is like a unique bind in that regard, but it's troubling, right? Like when you see the Olympics, right? On NBC, like the broadcast was referring to Taiwan as Chinese Taipei, which was like some kind of international... Really? Yeah. And you watch it and you're like, this is BS. It's fine if the IOC itself... Because you want to have China in the Olympics. It's a big country. And so they want to be a pain in the ass about it. I don't know. Maybe you got to give in. But an American television broadcaster, it's like have some self-respect. It's called Taiwan. I don't know. I don't know what Taiwan means. I was just like, that's what it's called. Yeah, you're not allowed to say it. I'm not going to pretend. Isn't that amazing, though, that they're willing to capitulate? But that's what people do. I know. It's so weird. The Doctor Strange thing is weird, but there's a lot of instances. The NBA thing's weird. There's so many of these things that are weird. You're like, what? Really? But you just realize how much money's coming from China. And that they've worked very hard to expand that influence and reinforce that influence. They're very deliberate about it. I think it's something America needs to be more serious about. I think people in culture and society need to be more outspoken. Each little compromise, I'm sure whoever in the script meeting was like, can we just make this a white lady? Yeah. I was like, well, what's the big deal? Well, okay. But we're completely erasing the Doctor Strange. Well, also Tibetan culture. Tibetan culture's not that big a deal in the United States, of course, because we're the United States. But this is one of its footprints. And to just snuff it out like that. Because of Chinese money. Because you want the Chinese market. And that sucks. Yeah. There was a video about all the different things they've done to films to cater to Chinese markets and how different they make these movies. And it was really bizarre. Would that change at all if there was a billion Americans? I mean, I think it would. I think that the more America has clout, the more we can say, look, you have to say no to Chinese censorship if you want to be in the American market. I don't think that's going to be a realistic approach if we slip and fall further and further behind. But they don't know that there's Chinese censorship until after the fact. We find out, well, Dr. Strange's mentor was actually supposed to be a Tibetan man. They turned into a bald lady. Well, no. I mean, with the movies, there's a whole process. Pan America did a good report about this. But where Hollywood films are submitted to the Chinese censors. And we ought to say, I mean, a whole billion things aside. I think we ought to say, no. You can't do that. Did someone say no to that? Did Tarantino say no to the editing of scenes? I think there was a thing they wanted edited out. It might have been about Bruce Lee because, you know, there's this which I found distasteful, even though I'm a giant Tarantino fan. His portrayal of Bruce Lee is just not accurate. It made him look like a buffoon. Oh, and what's about to happen in Hollywood? I think they resisted the changing. Is that true? Here it is. Tarantino, one of the rare directors with the power to demand final cut on his relatively expensive films, reportedly has no intention of re-editing the picture. Not for Shannon Lee, not for Chinese censors, squeamish about the film's graphic violence, not for any reason. Yeah, he refuses to recut for the Chinese market. Yeah. And I mean, you know, I don't know. I mean, that that Bruce Lee was not. It was funny. Scroll down on the UI. It's not really fair to him. OK, look at that. The film will not be released in China. Wow. He refused to edit the Bruce Lee scene now in order to secure a theatrical release in China. Catch new episodes of The Joe Rogan Experience for free only on Spotify. Watch back catalog JRE videos on Spotify, including clips, easily, seamlessly switch between video and audio experience. On Spotify, you can listen to the JRE in the background while using other apps and can download episodes to save on data costs all for free. Spotify is absolutely free. 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